What a fantastic job of building these locomotives from just old photographs; truly a labour of love and great american ingenuity and passion and pride; Wow!! Beautifully presented. Thank you
I was fortunate enough to occasionally view the production area as the building progressed. Management was gracious about allowing public viewing of the operation. If memory serves, I was the guy standing in the doorway when the engine was rolled out. Stored away somewhere are photos taken of the construction.
Wonderful presentation. As a model railroader, these engines are both a historical and artistic statement for our beautiful homeland and the vision and ingenuity of its people. Thanks for posting this video. I've saved it so I can recall and watch it in the future.
+falconoilcompany They of course originally had drawings- drawings done by hand and to scale, with dimensions and lists of materials. There were complicated pieces of machinery being built in factories in the 1800's; steam engines, looms, lathes, punch machines, etc. At least they found a boiler drawing which was the heart of the locomotive. These guys did an amazing job with the re-creation, and very wisely used updated fabrication techniques and materials (steel vs cast iron etc).
This is a wonderful story of the skills of the engineers who re-designed and built these two replicas and a tribute to their work and those of the engineers of history. America has indeed a rich history of skilled engineering over the last 150 years and I pay due tribute to them coming, as I do, from another great nation of engineers, now sadly also declined as in the USA. My country of Scotland UK has had an enviable record of railway and shipping engineers. Best wishes. Ken
Thank you for posting this movie to UA-cam. I visited the site in mid-May, 2022 and was very impressed. I'm studying more and plan to visit again, planning to spend more time at the site.
Someone needs to restore Reading 2101. She's got shiny paint on her outside, but she's been languishing in static display in Baltimore at the B & O museum since being damaged in a fire. She needs a new boiler (and probably running gear) to make her operational. I'm sure the technical drawings exist somewhere. It would be a major investment of time and funds, but she deserves the love.
All this work was originally done without the benefit of electric power tools, electric lights and the thousands of other electrical devices that make our world easier. The power tools they did have were leather belt driven, powered by a water wheel or steam. Great video, thanks for posting it.
In the case of some British made locomotives, some of the machining was better then than it is now. They really did deserve their success with the industrial revolution, their railways were superior in many ways.
That is true of course that the originals had to be constructed with much less developed tools. However, I am sure the design was such that it allowed for the absence of more developed tools. In other words: the designs of each era refelct the state of the art of the tools. What is food for thought is to realize how carelessly historic artifacts are being destroyed and how much effort it takes to recreate. And secondly, how much skills and knowledge are being lost which each generation and have to be reinvented and relearned. Something which accelerates day by day since we have smartphones.
There has been a revolution in manufacturing techniques since these replicas were made in the 1970's. CAD and CAM, widespread plasma cutting, etc. New welding techniques and a world of change in materials from the 19th Century.
"...What was it the Engines said, pilots touching head to head? Facing on the single track, half a world behind each back ..." (Bret Harte, poet laureate, written at the Golden Spike Ceremony at Promontory, Utah on 5/10/1869). My wife and I were customers of Mr. O'Connor's son-in-law (whose name I have forgotten) who was in the picture-framing business in nearby Laguna Beach and who had a number of railroad-themed photos and paintings, for us. He told his father-in-law about our interests in railroads and Mr. O'Connor gave his son-in-law a pair of copper-etched commemorative "builder's elevations" of the two locomotives, which he then framed and presented to us upon behalf of his father in law. Wonderfully detailed.
I saw the locomotives when they were nearly complete. Two friends and I built a 5" scale class A Shay in the 1970's. We got our boiler from Dixon also. My heart felt thanks to all those who built these beautiful machines.
Watching in April 2020. First of all, this is an amazing video documenting our American history. I'm awed by the ingenuity and vision of the people that recreated these marvelous machines. I'm even more amazed because these are recreations of locomotives that were made originally 100 years prior. Sitting here in this time and place of political correctness and historical revisionists, I cannot help but wonder if a project such as this could ever happen again under a government agency. Imagine, patterns were made using talc as a parting agent, boilers were insulated with "mud" (which was a nice way of saying asbestos lagging), OSHA and EPA regulations would bring production to a screeching halt, and then when the finished locomotives were set in place the ceremony consisted of Christening them! Today, I'm afraid to say, this whole thing would be protested and funding would never get approved because of congressional infighting and the whole thing would be sh*tcanned in the blink of an eye. Sad Sad Sad!
It is 2021 now and it is mandated tn the four trillion dollar socialist deficit spending spree that automobiles be replaced with these replicas. Of course the gigantic boilers have been updated with giant batteries.
This story , video and the people that took it all to life, are as special as any in our world today...proof we have not lost how it was made 100 years ago... While I'm sure some are not with us today what they built will tell us how talent and gifted they all are...First class job men, you can well be proud...
John, I really enjoyed this story. Was there any figures given for how much money was spent finishing these two magnificent machines?? I can't even fathom the cost, considering that the contracted machine company that did the work even had to go so far as to reconstruct their shop floor, installing iron rails to accommodate the massive machines.
THANKS This brought back many memories of tasks I performed at the B&O in 1957/58 working on the last 3 old steamers as the Co converted to diesel power. Those who did repairs, never saw "from the ground up". It was very enlightening to see how everything 'began'.
Chad O'Conner was a very smart man. He developed and patented a "fluid head" for cameras back in the 50's. These were the precursors to the "gyro heads" on today's cameras. He was filming some steam locomotives back then with his invention. A guy named Walt Disney was there and asked him what he was doing. Chad showed him. Walt freaked out and wanted those cameras for filming. You'll see that camera first in action in Disney's "The Living Desert".
I saw the locomotives when they were nearly complete. Two friends and I built a 5" scale class A Shay in the 1970's. We got our boiler from Dixon also.
That's right. Ward was a train buff himself. He had his own narrow gauge railroad (including an operating steam locomotive named the Emma Nevada). His railroad collection was donated to the Orange Empire Railway Museum after he passed.
Wow... That was *40 years ago* as of this year, 2019. God bless Mr. O"Connor, his partner and rest of his people... It was just yesterday I had asked someone about these two locomotives on UA-cam, as to whether they were rebuilds or replicas, then found a "Toy Man" video that talked about them. So, this was the icing on the cake! It makes you proud to be an American, especially with Big Boy #4014 coming back on line this same year.
Great program! Makes me proud to be a resident from Orange County knowing that these beauties were built in Costa Mesa. And I had no idea that Ward Kimball was involved in this project. Thank you for sharing this! Cheers from Fullerton!
I loved the video showing the building of Jupiter and 119. America's know how to be able to build precision locomotives, both back in the mid-1850, and again (only better) 150 years later shows we can build anything we want. Why then, is America no longer a major manufacturing country? Simply put, it must be politics that is keeping us from doing what we can do best!
I tip my hat to all involved for literally “scratch building” these two exquisite steam locomotives from virtually nothing…a truly magnificent engineering/design feat! Congratulations! 🚂 🇺🇸
Afraid not, TVRM 610 is a 2-8-0 and was restored sometime in the late 80's/early 90's. Southern Railroad 610 is a 2-10-4 that worked the American Freedom train before Southern started to use it briefly for excursions, that engine is in Texas now.
Beautiful craftsmanship guys. Don't see much of that today, but there are still individuals who appreciate and understand the effort and talent that went into building those engines. Just gorgeous.
There is plenty of equal or superior engineering and craftsmanship today. The public are simply not aware of it as it's not relevant to their lives. Every process you see in that video is still common in industry and given how long machine tools last, some of those shown are likely still making parts. The track torches shown cutting heavy steel are still in use throughout the world. So are the machine tools. Casting methods and practices continually improve. The thinwall precision cast auto engine blocks of today are one example of many. Manual welding equipment is builds billions of dollars of pipeline, bridges, ships and much more every year. People should really stop thinking of everything they don't trip over on the way out their front door as a lost art. If you dig that stuff, try model railroading as a hobby! The same skills are used at a much smaller scale, and small work is often more demanding then cruder larger work with looser tolerances.
The Jupiter was built by the Schenectady Locomotive works, which later merged with several other companies (including Rogers, builder of the 119) to form ALCO. The Schenectady shops were kept as the main works where many famous locos were built.
We can, but we don't, because diesel-electrics are much less labour-intensive, need lower volumes of fuel and hardly any water, and are much more thermally efficient. But kudos to the people who do, and who keep the existing ones alive.
What a fabulous achievement, so very well done, to be part of this challenge must have been a wonderful experience, a real salute to American engineering skills! Thanks for this, love it.
George H.W Bush, along with Mexican and Canadian leaders pushed for NAFTA and it was approved . Clinton had no choice but to sign it. Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1986 among the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it.
Fascinating. A lot of investment to make just 2 of something. If you tried this again today they'd tell you to call China and order up some shitty parts. The frame is thinner than I thought, and I didn't know the cow catchers were made of wood.
Excellent video, a lot of work and a lot money! These two locomotives are similar type to the New Zealand K class Rodgers loco,s no 88 & 92 built around 1878, one spent many years in a riverbed,it got pulled up and fully rebuilt. NZ had two types of K class the early Rogers K class, later a big powerful KA/KB were built they weighed almost 150 tonne.The KA was No relation to the Rogers K class, completely different locomotive.
Ya know, these trains could be an answer to keep trains around as fossil fuels deplete. We have alternative ways to create the heat we previously needed coal for. In the end, the steam engines could replace the diesel trains we use now.
+Bennie “Bee836” C nowadays we have so many ways of transforming energy into all kinds of forms, that we can afford to focus on efficiency instead of technical possibility, as was done in the steam age. a reciprocating engine that needs fuel whether or not it is moving is highly inefficient - what is much more efficient and convenient is using all kinds of fuels to power steam turbines which in turn power alternators. that electrical energy can then be used on trains on demand, and switched off if not in use. and that is exactly how it is done nowadays
There might actually be potential here. The Coalition for Sustainable Rail is developing a carbon-neutral coal alternative using torrefied biomass. They've already done some real-world tests using Everett Railroad #11. The main problem with replacing diesel is the low thermal efficiency of the traditional steam locomotive design, but some minor changes can be made that improve it drastically. If you're interested, look up a South African locomotive called the Red Devil. It's about twice as efficient as a traditional steam locomotive, and could be the blueprint for the future of steam.
@@michaelramsey82 I never knew Red Devil was so efficient. Very interesting! And besides the new carbon neutral coal from torrefied biomass, I found there are advantages that a steam locomotive has against a diesel. They produce more torque than a diesel, making them very powerful. Although it does create more torque at higher speeds, the amount of torque it creates is greater than that of a diesel. So a single steam locomotive can haul longer and heavier trains than a single diesel can without the help from extra locomotives.
This is probably weird since you asked this a year ago, but yes, Jupiter and 119 are still operating just fine. I've been up there several times in my life, and they're some of the most polished locomotives I've seen. Jupiter's even gotten its own unique coat of paint! I wonder if they've ever pulled trains...
Wow! Then drivers were fit with the tires back in the shops 4501 was stored? Magnificent! I'm 1 and a half hours away from tennessee valley railroad museum and I got to watch I bit of her restoration, 4501 will operate main line NS excursions this summer
Hard to believe the 2 locomotives were scrapped!! NOBODY said "hey, one of the biggest events in history , let's preserve these treasures?" No I guess they just continued to work them to DEATH! Unbelievable.
They were TOOLS to build a nation. When tools wore out they were RECYCLED because iron was valuable. Men were making history which is far more important than saving what (then) was just old junk.
Goes to show that rose tinted nostalgia is a modern invention. We talk about the good old days as if things were better then. Modern people are driven to wander through the past looking for some lost meaning to the hard working and hard domestic lives most people endured. I suspect they viewed old machinery with the same lack of regard as society showed to the wellbeing of its working citizens.
0:21 to 0:31 that looks like a couple of scenes that were used for the intro of Shining Time Station! And I wonder what Brian O'Connor would say if he saw these replicas, too? ;)
Now THIS is the great side of America. The "can do" attitude that simply got a collection of skilled people together to try to recreate lost arts and give us an impossible bit of that past to enjoy.
People build custom steam trains a little bigger than a human on their own, i'm sure we could easily still build steam trains. My hope is that if/when we run out of fuels for trains today, they will bring back steam engines. :)
Any form of steam power that would arrive in the future would look nothing like the steam locomotives of old, and would use some sort of electric drive. The conventional steam locomotives were incredibly inefficient in their use of fossil fuels.
Wonderful film! As a member of the engineering community I feel deep pride in the people who built the original locomotives 170 years ago and in those who built the replicas.
There is another replica was build like the Jupiter, but he was red, gold, and brown. His name is the Leviathan www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/8/4/4784.1380071521.jpg
Watching this video makes me proud to be an American and seeing that America possesses one of the worlds best engineering & manufacturing capabilities! I just wish today's youth would put more interest in learning about our Countries History instead of being so preoccupied with their cell phones and Facebook!
Amen to you (even though, ironically, I'm typing this on a lap top computer logged on to the internet and you the reader the same [ I.E. not too much difference than facebook.] ) ! But I agree about being proud. I did keep wondering what machining parts (tires, cylinder heads, rods , boiler) was like in 1869 compared to this modern machine and foundry technique used for the duplication process ..
Those reproductions were built 35+ years ago and, then as now, there are many countries that had the technical and industrial capability of building reproduction 19th century steam locos. They really aren't particularly complicated machines. The biggest challenge was in dimensioning components using only photographs in the absence of most original technical drawings, which begs the question of how accurate major components for which no photographs exist, such as the controls and footplates are, especially considering that both reproductions were originally designed to burn natural gas (though much later they were converted to burn wood and coal). As for interest in history, the originals were scrapped in 1903 and 1909, so any historical interest placed in them is relatively recent. Older adults complaining about youth having no interest in history is a complaint as old as history itself. Perhaps ironically, such reproductions would be much easier and faster to build today than they were in 1979.
CaptHollister True, anything that was made before can be made again, the whole issue is the COST! I have a sheet copper lion head mask ornament from a NYC building cornice, it was originally made in several machine stamped pieces, hand soldered and riveted together, it certainly could be reproduced today, however, a set of very expensive steel dies would have to be fabricated for every piece and a many ton press used to stamp each piece, then each piece would have to be cut/trimmed, assembled, soldered and riveted. If making a replica of that lion mask cost $100,000 for all the foundry and machining work, is it worth it and who would pay that? I paid $800 for the original antique. O'Connor Industries built the replica engines, "Jupiter" and No. 119 for the National Park Service in 1979. The price tag back then was $1.5 million dollars, which included all the research and drafting of the engineering construction drawings. That's approximately $4.8 million today with inflation. If one of these replica engines cost $5 million to make today, who is going to pay that? In 1979 O'connor said the whole project was a "labor of love" so you can bet the actual cost if it had been a fully commercial for profit project where everyone was paid or charged their normal full fees for the work would probably have been double that amount. That was a lot of foundry and machine work! If we doubled that original amount then today with just inflation only it would be almost $10 million. I still don't see even that amount being enough to build two of these locomotives today.
Victorian Sculptures Let's not discount the fact that today, as in 1979, you could find many people and corporations for whom building one of these would also be a labour of love.
Well done, the film producers! Really well explained and illustrated. Never dull - unlike many railway videos (I'm thinking of some of the films from my native UK).
Hi there, great job showing most of the steps making this locomotive. Would of loved to have seen footage (if any) of the side rods being made. Thank you from an old railway Blacksmith in NZ
Great video. Makes you wonder what kind of crazy steam engines we could build today with modern alloys, CAD, 3d printing etc... I bet 3d printing allows for some very interesting boiler designs.
There are few things that without much celebration make me think, god damn, I am proud to be an American! Obliterating the hardcore Japanese and German fighters during World War Two, and then given them a hand in restoring them. Watching Adams forces get absolutely decimated, knowing my dad, a first-generation European-American, enlisted in the United States Army during a time of war. Then, there are things like this. Starting almost entirely from scratch to preserve a significant part of our history.
150 years ago building a railroad across a continent with shovels and sledgehammers took a few years. With today's fantastic machines I doubt it can be done at all...
Physically? Oh it can be done. Financially? It'd probably be cheaper to fly back to the Moon. The economics of this country really don't make sense anymore.
Engineer6325 We have the technology to do pretty much anything we want now, but the problem is that there has to be a 1,000 page "environmental study" and then all the screeching environmentalists will protest because a tiny fish or mouse will be relocated. So what could have been done in a couple of years or even less now takes 10 years.
That is because the younger generation of people today doesn't give a shit about the history of this Nation. The company that reconstructed these Locomotive were magnificent.
What a fantastic job of building these locomotives from just old photographs; truly a labour of love and great american ingenuity and passion and pride; Wow!! Beautifully presented. Thank you
I was fortunate enough to occasionally view the production area as the building progressed. Management was gracious about allowing public viewing of the operation. If memory serves, I was the guy standing in the doorway when the engine was rolled out. Stored away somewhere are photos taken of the construction.
Wonderful presentation. As a model railroader, these engines are both a historical and artistic statement for our beautiful homeland and the vision and ingenuity of its people. Thanks for posting this video. I've saved it so I can recall and watch it in the future.
All credit to the loco builders, they have done a great job, especially without drawings.
+falconoilcompany They of course originally had drawings- drawings done by hand and to scale, with dimensions and lists of materials. There were complicated pieces of machinery being built in factories in the 1800's; steam engines, looms, lathes, punch machines, etc. At least they found a boiler drawing which was the heart of the locomotive. These guys did an amazing job with the re-creation, and very wisely used updated fabrication techniques and materials (steel vs cast iron etc).
@Iain Botham ,
If only they could pull excursions
Hopefully they kept all the drawings they themselves made.
At some point, I began to imagine a colossal, steam-fired, mechanical spider interrupting the ceremony...
Kenneth Brannagh's best work ;-)
🤣🤣🤣🤣
then you passed away.
This is a wonderful story of the skills of the engineers who re-designed and built these two replicas and a tribute to their work and those of the engineers of history. America has indeed a rich history of skilled engineering over the last 150 years and I pay due tribute to them coming, as I do, from another great nation of engineers, now sadly also declined as in the USA. My country of Scotland UK has had an enviable record of railway and shipping engineers. Best wishes. Ken
And what was the cost for building these Locomotives.
I love to see American ingenuity and masters of there trade. An excellent video.
Thank you.
Thank you for posting this movie to UA-cam.
I visited the site in mid-May, 2022 and was very impressed. I'm studying more and plan to visit again, planning to spend more time at the site.
Someone needs to restore Reading 2101. She's got shiny paint on her outside, but she's been languishing in static display in Baltimore at the B & O museum since being damaged in a fire. She needs a new boiler (and probably running gear) to make her operational. I'm sure the technical drawings exist somewhere. It would be a major investment of time and funds, but she deserves the love.
All this work was originally done without the benefit of electric power tools, electric lights and the thousands of other electrical devices that make our world easier.
The power tools they did have were leather belt driven, powered by a water wheel or steam.
Great video, thanks for posting it.
In the case of some British made locomotives, some of the machining was better then than it is now. They really did deserve their success with the industrial revolution, their railways were superior in many ways.
C Smith
How dare you! Traitor! Lol.
That is true of course that the originals had to be constructed with much less developed tools. However, I am sure the design was such that it allowed for the absence of more developed tools. In other words: the designs of each era refelct the state of the art of the tools.
What is food for thought is to realize how carelessly historic artifacts are being destroyed and how much effort it takes to recreate. And secondly, how much skills and knowledge are being lost which each generation and have to be reinvented and relearned. Something which accelerates day by day since we have smartphones.
There has been a revolution in manufacturing techniques since these replicas were made in the 1970's. CAD and CAM, widespread plasma cutting, etc. New welding techniques and a world of change in materials from the 19th Century.
When Steam Locomotives rule the rails before the Diesel took over.
"...What was it the Engines said, pilots touching head to head? Facing on the single track,
half a world behind each back ..." (Bret Harte, poet laureate, written at the Golden Spike Ceremony at Promontory, Utah on 5/10/1869).
My wife and I were customers of Mr. O'Connor's son-in-law (whose name I have forgotten) who was in the picture-framing business in nearby Laguna Beach and who had a number of railroad-themed photos and paintings, for us. He told his father-in-law about our interests in railroads and Mr. O'Connor gave his son-in-law a pair of copper-etched commemorative "builder's elevations" of the two locomotives, which he then framed and presented to us upon behalf of his father in law. Wonderfully detailed.
I saw the locomotives when they were nearly complete. Two friends and I built a 5" scale class A Shay in the 1970's. We got our boiler from Dixon also. My heart felt thanks to all those who built these beautiful machines.
Where is that shay nowadays?
Thanks for the Train History 👍♐️
Glad to have happened upon this story, we've all heard the basics but, now we know the rest of the story.
Watching in April 2020. First of all, this is an amazing video documenting our American history. I'm awed by the ingenuity and vision of the people that recreated these marvelous machines. I'm even more amazed because these are recreations of locomotives that were made originally 100 years prior. Sitting here in this time and place of political correctness and historical revisionists, I cannot help but wonder if a project such as this could ever happen again under a government agency. Imagine, patterns were made using talc as a parting agent, boilers were insulated with "mud" (which was a nice way of saying asbestos lagging), OSHA and EPA regulations would bring production to a screeching halt, and then when the finished locomotives were set in place the ceremony consisted of Christening them! Today, I'm afraid to say, this whole thing would be protested and funding would never get approved because of congressional infighting and the whole thing would be sh*tcanned in the blink of an eye. Sad Sad Sad!
It is 2021 now and it is mandated tn the four trillion dollar socialist deficit spending spree that automobiles be replaced with these replicas. Of course the gigantic boilers have been updated with giant batteries.
@@deconteesawyer5758 Yawn. Another economic illiterate who doesn't know what "socialism" really is, only what Faux Noise tells him to think.
@@wlewisiii ... says the lad whose only social skills involve persuading his mom to buy him more dolls , er Action Figures.
WOW...what a great group of talent you have here and what a great job you all did...I'm so proud of you all...Bless you all...
Beautiful reproductions. This type (American) locomotive, has always been my favorite. Thanks for sharing
This story , video and the people that took it all to life, are as special as any in our world today...proof we have not lost how it was made 100 years ago... While I'm sure some are not with us today what they built will tell us how talent and gifted they all are...First class job men, you can well be proud...
Builder99 You said it well Sir .It took me back to my late father who was a tool maker using lathes and micrometres great story.
Great video about two great locomotives wonderfully reproduced. Thanks for posting this.
Beautiful craftsmanship! A testiment to American ingenuity!
What a beautiful video....I wish that company kept right on making these engines
I hope they give the golden spike to the company that engineered and built these two beautiful locomotives. They will display it in their boardroom.
John, I really enjoyed this story. Was there any figures given for how much money was spent finishing these two magnificent machines?? I can't even fathom the cost, considering that the contracted machine company that did the work even had to go so far as to reconstruct their shop floor, installing iron rails to accommodate the massive machines.
Ward Kimball owned the 2-6-0 Emma Nevada and 0-4-2T Chloe at his Grizzly Flats Railroad, both of which are now at the Orange Empire Railway Museum
True works of art. Amazing!
To imagine that these two locomotives stood pilot to pilot at Promontory Summit 155 years ago is crazy. (Well, the originals at least)
Some cool stuff right there. Awesome vid.
Now 150 years later the story is still being told and these locomotives help to still tell it
Ya' just gotta' love people who go onto your channel and mark "dislike" on all of your videos. It's the same guy all the way down.
This is a fine video. Why would anyone dislike this? I'll probly watch it several more times.
I've contacted O'Connor labs about building replicas of the General & Texas. It would take a lot of money!
It's possible to delete that person from your comments - plenty of UA-camrs do that, giving themselves great satisfaction.
These two locomotives are the best!
Most who do this are autistic. They are laughable, worthless and best ignored.
THANKS This brought back many memories of tasks I performed at the B&O in 1957/58 working on the last 3 old steamers as the Co converted to diesel power. Those who did repairs, never saw "from the ground up". It was very enlightening to see how everything 'began'.
Chad O'Conner was a very smart man. He developed and patented a "fluid head" for cameras back in the 50's. These were the precursors to the "gyro heads" on today's cameras. He was filming some steam locomotives back then with his invention. A guy named Walt Disney was there and asked him what he was doing. Chad showed him. Walt freaked out and wanted those cameras for filming. You'll see that camera first in action in Disney's "The Living Desert".
I saw the locomotives when they were nearly complete. Two friends and I built a 5" scale class A Shay in the 1970's. We got our boiler from Dixon also.
Great story and beautiful engines
I love the Jupiter, always have, and this is really nice. What beautiful locomotives.
That's right. Ward was a train buff himself. He had his own narrow gauge railroad (including an operating steam locomotive named the Emma Nevada). His railroad collection was donated to the Orange Empire Railway Museum after he passed.
Wow... That was *40 years ago* as of this year, 2019. God bless Mr. O"Connor, his partner and rest of his people... It was just yesterday I had asked someone about these two locomotives on UA-cam, as to whether they were rebuilds or replicas, then found a "Toy Man" video that talked about them. So, this was the icing on the cake! It makes you proud to be an American, especially with Big Boy #4014 coming back on line this same year.
Great stuff. I was at the 1969 commemoration. Need to go back again.
Great program! Makes me proud to be a resident from Orange County knowing that these beauties were built in Costa Mesa. And I had no idea that Ward Kimball was involved in this project. Thank you for sharing this! Cheers from Fullerton!
absolutely fantastic i have models of both locomotives i would love to see the originals
Wonderful too see, thank you.
As a retired engineering type; I would have love to work on this exciting project. Well done
I loved the video showing the building of Jupiter and 119. America's know how to be able to build precision locomotives, both back in the mid-1850, and again (only better) 150 years later shows we can build anything we want. Why then, is America no longer a major manufacturing country? Simply put, it must be politics that is keeping us from doing what we can do best!
I tip my hat to all involved for literally “scratch building” these two exquisite steam locomotives from virtually nothing…a truly magnificent engineering/design feat!
Congratulations! 🚂 🇺🇸
12:54 well i see the 4501 in the background, nice to see
I want a rebuild of a Dreyfuss Hudson or Hiawatha f7
That would take years and years of funding
I'm with ya there, those had some sleek lines
yep
I've seen these locomotives in person, and they're even more impressive than they appear in photos and video!
Afraid not, TVRM 610 is a 2-8-0 and was restored sometime in the late 80's/early 90's. Southern Railroad 610 is a 2-10-4 that worked the American Freedom train before Southern started to use it briefly for excursions, that engine is in Texas now.
Beautiful craftsmanship guys. Don't see much of that today, but there are still individuals who appreciate and understand the effort and talent that went into building those engines. Just gorgeous.
There is plenty of equal or superior engineering and craftsmanship today. The public are simply not aware of it as it's not relevant to their lives. Every process you see in that video is still common in industry and given how long machine tools last, some of those shown are likely still making parts. The track torches shown cutting heavy steel are still in use throughout the world. So are the machine tools. Casting methods and practices continually improve. The thinwall precision cast auto engine blocks of today are one example of many. Manual welding equipment is builds billions of dollars of pipeline, bridges, ships and much more every year.
People should really stop thinking of everything they don't trip over on the way out their front door as a lost art. If you dig that stuff, try model railroading as a hobby! The same skills are used at a much smaller scale, and small work is often more demanding then cruder larger work with looser tolerances.
The drivers were turned and trued at the Southern Railway's Irondale Shop in Birmingham, Alabama.
the Jupiter was built in the same place as the big boy and challenger locos
JAMESMANHUNT9 do you mean Alco if that's true that's wicked
The Jupiter was built by the Schenectady Locomotive works, which later merged with several other companies (including Rogers, builder of the 119) to form ALCO. The Schenectady shops were kept as the main works where many famous locos were built.
Milwaukee Road Hiawatha F7 4-6-4 was built there, one of the fastest steam locos ever.
We can, but we don't, because diesel-electrics are much less labour-intensive, need lower volumes of fuel and hardly any water, and are much more thermally efficient. But kudos to the people who do, and who keep the existing ones alive.
What a fabulous achievement, so very well done, to be part of this challenge must have been a wonderful experience, a real salute to American engineering skills!
Thanks for this, love it.
George H.W Bush, along with Mexican and Canadian leaders pushed for NAFTA and it was approved . Clinton had no choice but to sign it.
Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1986 among the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it.
Fascinating. A lot of investment to make just 2 of something.
If you tried this again today they'd tell you to call China and order up some shitty parts.
The frame is thinner than I thought, and I didn't know the cow catchers were made of wood.
@Thomas Munn Sierra Nevada.
What beautiful locomotives
Excellent video, a lot of work and a lot money! These two locomotives are similar type to the New Zealand K class Rodgers loco,s no 88 & 92 built around 1878, one spent many years in a riverbed,it got pulled up and fully rebuilt. NZ had two types of K class the early Rogers K class, later a big powerful KA/KB were built they weighed almost 150 tonne.The KA was No relation to the Rogers K class, completely different locomotive.
Ya know, these trains could be an answer to keep trains around as fossil fuels deplete. We have alternative ways to create the heat we previously needed coal for.
In the end, the steam engines could replace the diesel trains we use now.
+Bennie “Bee836” C nowadays we have so many ways of transforming energy into all kinds of forms, that we can afford to focus on efficiency instead of technical possibility, as was done in the steam age. a reciprocating engine that needs fuel whether or not it is moving is highly inefficient - what is much more efficient and convenient is using all kinds of fuels to power steam turbines which in turn power alternators. that electrical energy can then be used on trains on demand, and switched off if not in use. and that is exactly how it is done nowadays
There might actually be potential here. The Coalition for Sustainable Rail is developing a carbon-neutral coal alternative using torrefied biomass. They've already done some real-world tests using Everett Railroad #11.
The main problem with replacing diesel is the low thermal efficiency of the traditional steam locomotive design, but some minor changes can be made that improve it drastically. If you're interested, look up a South African locomotive called the Red Devil. It's about twice as efficient as a traditional steam locomotive, and could be the blueprint for the future of steam.
@@michaelramsey82 I never knew Red Devil was so efficient. Very interesting! And besides the new carbon neutral coal from torrefied biomass, I found there are advantages that a steam locomotive has against a diesel. They produce more torque than a diesel, making them very powerful. Although it does create more torque at higher speeds, the amount of torque it creates is greater than that of a diesel. So a single steam locomotive can haul longer and heavier trains than a single diesel can without the help from extra locomotives.
FRIGGIN AWESOME!!!
Beautiful locomotives! It's amazing how those replicas were made so authentic. Are they still in working condition?
This is probably weird since you asked this a year ago, but yes, Jupiter and 119 are still operating just fine. I've been up there several times in my life, and they're some of the most polished locomotives I've seen. Jupiter's even gotten its own unique coat of paint! I wonder if they've ever pulled trains...
Man i wish i was there for the 150th anniversary. 😭
@ 6.49 the narrator says wrought iron is similar to cast iron. Nothing is further from the truth.
Ant Mallett Well... in terms of carbon content, maybe
Wow! Then drivers were fit with the tires back in the shops 4501 was stored? Magnificent! I'm 1 and a half hours away from tennessee valley railroad museum and I got to watch I bit of her restoration, 4501 will operate main line NS excursions this summer
For anyone interested in this, a great follow on watch is "No 6207 A Study in Steel 1935"
Hard to believe the 2 locomotives were scrapped!! NOBODY said "hey, one of the biggest events in history , let's preserve these treasures?" No I guess they just continued to work them to DEATH! Unbelievable.
they were just pieces of plant back in the day. Things weren't looked at so reverently as they are now.
They were TOOLS to build a nation. When tools wore out they were RECYCLED because iron was valuable. Men were making history which is far more important than saving what (then) was just old junk.
Goes to show that rose tinted nostalgia is a modern invention. We talk about the good old days as if things were better then. Modern people are driven to wander through the past looking for some lost meaning to the hard working and hard domestic lives most people endured. I suspect they viewed old machinery with the same lack of regard as society showed to the wellbeing of its working citizens.
Someone did say "hey, one of the biggest events in history , let's preserve this treasure!" But the railroad officials didn't listen...
Well they didn't completely recognize the historical importance of the locomotives so that's why they scraped them
Re inventing the wheel. I don't care. I love it!
0:21 to 0:31 that looks like a couple of scenes that were used for the intro of Shining Time Station!
And I wonder what Brian O'Connor would say if he saw these replicas, too? ;)
Stock footage from the Association of American Railroads. Frequently used in documentaries of the 1950s.
Now THIS is the great side of America. The "can do" attitude that simply got a collection of skilled people together to try to recreate lost arts and give us an impossible bit of that past to enjoy.
wow, thank you for this history lesson/
Yes, he was a railroad buff, as well as his pal Walt Disney.
All of the parts such as the drive wheels of the originals were cast iron. The manganese steel wheels are far stronger and not brittle like cast iron.
People build custom steam trains a little bigger than a human on their own, i'm sure we could easily still build steam trains. My hope is that if/when we run out of fuels for trains today, they will bring back steam engines. :)
Any form of steam power that would arrive in the future would look nothing like the steam locomotives of old, and would use some sort of electric drive. The conventional steam locomotives were incredibly inefficient in their use of fossil fuels.
Wonderful film! As a member of the engineering community I feel deep pride in the people who built the original locomotives 170 years ago and in those who built the replicas.
this is great! thanks
So what happened to the original 119 and the Jupiter?
They were scrapped
There is another replica was build like the Jupiter, but he was red, gold, and brown. His name is the Leviathan
www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/8/4/4784.1380071521.jpg
Their parts and artifacts are in a museum.
they were both scrapped. 119 in 1901 and Jupiter in 1903 for $1000 each.
Whose stupid idea was that?!
The Jupiter was coming from the West with the Central Pacific. The 119 was from the East and Union Pacific.
Well, acutally a surprising number of Disney animators were steam fans as well
Watching this video makes me proud to be an American and seeing that America possesses one of the worlds best engineering & manufacturing capabilities! I just wish today's youth would put more interest in learning about our Countries History instead of being so preoccupied with their cell phones and Facebook!
Amen to you (even though, ironically, I'm typing this on a lap top computer logged on to the internet and you the reader the same [ I.E. not too much difference than facebook.] ) ! But I agree about being proud. I did keep wondering what machining parts (tires, cylinder heads, rods , boiler) was like in 1869 compared to this modern machine and foundry technique used for the duplication process ..
Those reproductions were built 35+ years ago and, then as now, there are many countries that had the technical and industrial capability of building reproduction 19th century steam locos. They really aren't particularly complicated machines. The biggest challenge was in dimensioning components using only photographs in the absence of most original technical drawings, which begs the question of how accurate major components for which no photographs exist, such as the controls and footplates are, especially considering that both reproductions were originally designed to burn natural gas (though much later they were converted to burn wood and coal). As for interest in history, the originals were scrapped in 1903 and 1909, so any historical interest placed in them is relatively recent. Older adults complaining about youth having no interest in history is a complaint as old as history itself. Perhaps ironically, such reproductions would be much easier and faster to build today than they were in 1979.
I absolutely agree with you 100%.
CaptHollister True, anything that was made before can be made again, the whole issue is the COST! I have a sheet copper lion head mask ornament from a NYC building cornice, it was originally made in several machine stamped pieces, hand soldered and riveted together, it certainly could be reproduced today, however, a set of very expensive steel dies would have to be fabricated for every piece and a many ton press used to stamp each piece, then each piece would have to be cut/trimmed, assembled, soldered and riveted.
If making a replica of that lion mask cost $100,000 for all the foundry and machining work, is it worth it and who would pay that? I paid $800 for the original antique.
O'Connor Industries built the replica engines, "Jupiter" and No. 119
for the National Park Service in 1979. The price tag back then was $1.5 million dollars, which included all the research and drafting of the engineering construction drawings.
That's approximately $4.8 million today with inflation.
If one of these replica engines cost $5 million to make today, who is going to pay that? In 1979 O'connor said the whole project was a "labor of love" so you can bet the actual cost if it had been a fully commercial for profit project where everyone was paid or charged their normal full fees for the work would probably have been double that amount. That was a lot of foundry and machine work! If we doubled that original amount then today with just inflation only it would be almost $10 million.
I still don't see even that amount being enough to build two of these locomotives today.
Victorian Sculptures Let's not discount the fact that today, as in 1979, you could find many people and corporations for whom building one of these would also be a labour of love.
So how long did it take to build theses replicas back in the 1970s?????????
Sat back in my comfy chair and thoroughly enjoyed this video..thanks for posting...
Yus my son Jupiter
Gotta love that cinder catcher on the stack.
@@spikespa5208 Indeed, gives it real character!
I Think I Actually Learned Something Remotely Useful
Well done, the film producers! Really well explained and illustrated. Never dull - unlike many railway videos (I'm thinking of some of the films from my native UK).
Awesome video! Very informative. I just filmed those engines at Promontory
Check out TRAINS magazine for a supplemental list of railroad museums. Some may be open after the current problems.
Old tech fascinates me. Thanks for the upload, John.
Did they fire them with oil
I think the Jupiter was wood (hence the cinder catcher on the stack), No. 119 was coal.
i love how the trains were made
Up 844 clips from tv shows
Hi there, great job showing most of the steps making this locomotive. Would of loved to have seen footage (if any) of the side rods being made. Thank you from an old railway Blacksmith in NZ
no kidding
ONE OF THOSE SCENCES ARE FROM GBRRr
19:02 Ward Kimball! My favorite Disney animator who created my favorite Disney character, Casey Jr!
Great video. Makes you wonder what kind of crazy steam engines we could build today with modern alloys, CAD, 3d printing etc... I bet 3d printing allows for some very interesting boiler designs.
There are few things that without much celebration make me think, god damn, I am proud to be an American! Obliterating the hardcore Japanese and German fighters during World War Two, and then given them a hand in restoring them.
Watching Adams forces get absolutely decimated, knowing my dad, a first-generation European-American, enlisted in the United States Army during a time of war.
Then, there are things like this. Starting almost entirely from scratch to preserve a significant part of our history.
12:53 You can see the Southern 4501 in the background.
150 years ago building a railroad across a continent with shovels and sledgehammers took a few years. With today's fantastic machines I doubt it can be done at all...
Physically? Oh it can be done. Financially? It'd probably be cheaper to fly back to the Moon. The economics of this country really don't make sense anymore.
Engineer6325 We have the technology to do pretty much anything we want now, but the problem is that there has to be a 1,000 page "environmental study" and then all the screeching environmentalists will protest because a tiny fish or mouse will be relocated. So what could have been done in a couple of years or even less now takes 10 years.
I want one
Both helped shape America. Both are beautiful locomotives.
We must regain the GREATNESS we once had , and have now so sadly lost.
That is because the younger generation of people today doesn't give a shit about the history of this Nation. The company that reconstructed these Locomotive were magnificent.
Terry Dennis. If only the youth would take a trip to see these trains in Utah, they may enjoy it and see the important history of the great country.
Your heritage is being replaced by non whites
I love the golden spike it's small but sadly the best train museum in Utah but the engines where amazing