🧙 House Strong: The Lost Starks of the Riverlands | Fire and Blood theory

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 538

  • @ShakespeareofThrones
    @ShakespeareofThrones 5 років тому +353

    Amazing video, Matt! Truly enjoyed all of it. The last statement is particularly resounding--yes, House Strong has sown its seeds, and the roots are spreading.
    I think it's natural to want to conclude that Dunk is a Strong descendent. I kinda hope this isn't confirmed, though, because I prefer the unknown aspect of his parentage. It's nice to at least have the interpretation one of the greatest heroes in Westeros wasn't special because of lineage.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +40

      That is the one downside, it turns out George is still doing the magical blood thing and I agree, I want Dunk to be nobody. But.....I don't think that's what George wants. He wants the ancient bloodlines and connections with heroes of the Age of Heroes.
      TBH given the timing, I think he may have been inspired by the Long Night spin off to show how their society worked.

    • @ShakespeareofThrones
      @ShakespeareofThrones 5 років тому +30

      @@JoeMagician oh totally! I think there's a way to have cake and eat it, too. grrm doesn't have to confirm the lineage in text, but with all these clues he can make it pretty clear. In any case, Dunk's nobody status is preserved at least in-world; i.e. I doubt he's going to have a "you're a wizard, Harry!" moment in the novellas. Most likely there will be a little a-ha line in the next F&B about some Strong baby hidden away and forgotten about in Flea Bottom. Good point about the spin-off potentially inspiring the focus on ancient bloodlines and connections.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +28

      True! And I think it's more important that he is raised to be among the common people than actually being one of them. It's a very hopeful message, and one you get with Egg too, that there's humanity in everyone if they get to know other people and those outside their classes. Even if he is descended of an ancient, powerful house who may have been kings once, he's still just Dunk of Flea Bottom. Like how Jon is a Targaryen with another name, but in his heart he'll always be Jon, son of Ned Stark. In the next fire and blood, that's definitely on my wish list. I also want to know where the Strong home is before Harrenhal, literally no mention of where it is. Meaning either George is saving it for something juicy or hasn't decided yet.
      That happens to him all the time, like the TWOIAF came about because Elio and Linda asked him about the history. Jane Goldman must be in contact and asking him for the real story, and he got inspired and wrote it down in his own way :)

    • @rebornstillborn
      @rebornstillborn 4 роки тому +6

      Makes the novellas fit into the song of Ice and Fire as well, with a Stark(ish) character and a Valyrian travelling together.

    • @mariozlo666
      @mariozlo666 4 роки тому

      @@JoeMagician lub mccarthy kk mccbx bbblove oox.

  • @notyourwesterosi5589
    @notyourwesterosi5589 5 років тому +1017

    Show Robert Baratheon, “Gods I was STRONG then.” Theory complete. ✔️

    • @saljpal3
      @saljpal3 5 років тому +62

      I guess it explains why him and Ned were such good friends if they share common blood.

    • @oppionatedindividual8256
      @oppionatedindividual8256 2 роки тому +21

      @@saljpal3 ah yes like how siblings are all good friends irl

    • @saljpal3
      @saljpal3 2 роки тому +24

      @@oppionatedindividual8256 I know from personal experience that isn't the case 😂. But having common ancestry could lead to individuals sharing similar traits that makes it easier for them to get along with each other. People can have sibling rivalry but extended family members they get along with.

    • @SoCalChris
      @SoCalChris 2 роки тому +7

      @@oppionatedindividual8256 crap, me and my brother want to kill each other even in our 30s at times.. I must be doing something wrong.. 🤷

    • @SoCalChris
      @SoCalChris 2 роки тому +1

      @@saljpal3 same.

  • @pallen2645
    @pallen2645 2 роки тому +439

    It occurs to me that the history of Westeros, at least from Aegon forward, is the story of two bloodlines trying to come together while other forces keep them apart. Whenever the houses gifted with the magic of the First Men meets the blood of the Dragon Lords the realm manages to tear itself apart, whether that blood comes from Bracken or Blackwood, Strong or Stark. And interestingly it's always the Oldtown alliance of the Hightowers, the Citadel and the Church of the Seven which seem ready to pry the two bloodlines apart.

    • @benweinzierl1545
      @benweinzierl1545 2 роки тому +58

      This aligns perfectly with Jon Snow being a Targaryen and a Stark

    • @bjornerluffy
      @bjornerluffy 2 роки тому +48

      Not suprising with how insanely OP both peolpe that got the mixed blood, Bloodraven and Jon. Bloodraven is obvious, but Jon has performed many almost superhuman feats of both strength and ferocity. Imagine having 1 or 2 people with Bloodravens power in the Targaryens per generation, it would cause them to completely dominate westerosi politics.

    • @sblack4951
      @sblack4951 2 роки тому +26

      if the theory that strongs are long lost starks is true and rhaenyra's children are actually strong shouldn't her first three boys be ULTRA POWERFUL what with the blood of dragon and blood of the first men finally coming together?

    • @pallen2645
      @pallen2645 2 роки тому +52

      @@sblack4951 Well they're dragonriders despite only getting Valyrian genes from one side, so that says something. But they died young and never had an "awakening" event like other powerful psychics, so who knows how strong they might have been.

    • @pallen2645
      @pallen2645 2 роки тому

      To further speculate, I view the larger conflict as the continuation of the war between the First Men and the Children of the Forest, with the Hightowers and the rest of the Oldtown institutions playing the leadership role. The First Men who took on the worship of the Old Gods joined the enemy, from the perspective of this conflict. The concern is that the bloodlines who can naturally connect to the Old Gods of the Weirwoods are also prone to manipulation by them. Dragon Lords who can be unduly influenced by dreams sent by the Children would be seen as a danger to the Hightowers and their allies so it makes sense they would work to prevent it.

  • @CatchMeUp
    @CatchMeUp 5 років тому +252

    "House Ghostrider" is perhaps the unexpectedly best laugh I've had about anything ASOIAF-related for some time.

  • @DukeDukeGo
    @DukeDukeGo 5 років тому +363

    Fun fact: Ser Robert Strong is named Ser Robert Kraft in german which translates to strength or force because there would have been confusion with House Stark otherwise

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +47

      Indeed! I looked into it, and apparently the choice of Kraft was the translators choice. I thought for a while it may have been a joke about the owner of the New England Patriots....

    • @darthbricksempire3606
      @darthbricksempire3606 5 років тому +29

      RageUnicorn I don’t get translators translating names. In Denmark, we have Jon Sne, Stjerneborg (Storm’s end, or star castle), Kongs havn (Kings port, not landing), and many other stupid translations

    • @justuskuhn6941
      @justuskuhn6941 5 років тому +18

      Jon Schnee, Sturmkap and Königsmund in german

    • @droideca88
      @droideca88 3 роки тому +10

      @@darthbricksempire3606 same in dutch, Greyjoy is Grimjoy for no reason

    • @SingingSealRiana
      @SingingSealRiana 2 роки тому +7

      just do not translate names unless it is needed for a pun or otherwise importendt and even if it is, it probably would not work anyway . . . .
      there is a german youtuber that makes harry potter content and looked at the translations of names in the different languages and apparenty, the norway translation apparently managed to invent fantasy words, that mean something nit childfriendly translated into swedish . . . she has a lot of fun with that shit . . . it never ends well

  • @davidarem8352
    @davidarem8352 4 роки тому +275

    In fire and blood Credgan Stark calls the “Strong” Valyrian son of Rhaenyra a true friend and they bond, he even compared him to his brother

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  4 роки тому +52

      He sure does! It seems a bit on the nose once you start looking for it.

    • @jav744
      @jav744 2 роки тому +22

      the pact of ice and fire😉 the seed is strong

    • @marlondasilva8438
      @marlondasilva8438 2 роки тому +5

      I can’t wait for cregan in house of dragon season 2 I just really hope they get the casting right I’m sick of hearing the Henry cavil and Travis flimmel casting

    • @thalmoragent9344
      @thalmoragent9344 Рік тому +2

      @@jav744
      Well, Jaecerys' own seed wasn't that "Strong" in the end, given he sired no children with Sara Snow

    • @gerardjagroo
      @gerardjagroo 11 місяців тому +4

      ​@@thalmoragent9344If the naked woman in Bran's vision was Sara Snow as many speculated, then you'd be wrong.
      ...After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy.
      He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, _but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her_

  • @dartagnanjames8069
    @dartagnanjames8069 2 роки тому +187

    You know, looking at the cast in House of the Dragon, they do look like Starks. Harwin looks like what Ned's brother Brandon would look like. Larys looks like he could be related to Ned. It's actually pretty interesting.

    • @girlnextdoorgrooming
      @girlnextdoorgrooming 2 роки тому +4

      It's the brow bone.

    • @samanthab1923
      @samanthab1923 3 місяці тому +2

      That’s what threw me! You’re right. I kept saying the casting was way off. The Hightower Targaryens are not attractive. Very horsey looking. The only good looker was Jon & we know why.

  • @threeeyedpheonix1031
    @threeeyedpheonix1031 2 роки тому +60

    I find it interesting that house strong an offshoot of house stark mixed with Targaryen created 3 black haired sons with ryanera and harwin and also again with Jon snow. Nobody is talking about that

    • @MegaEmperorking
      @MegaEmperorking 8 місяців тому +3

      In the books the velayron princes have brown hair & hair eyes. Jon has dark brown hair and dark grey eyes. So that's only a correlation in the show.

  • @jeffjohnson8681
    @jeffjohnson8681 5 років тому +230

    The Witch Queen of Harrenhal can be killed by no man.
    Varys: I am no man! *stabby stabby*

    • @rodrickhatton8636
      @rodrickhatton8636 5 років тому +6

      Hahaha! Oh my God!

    • @azarishere6442
      @azarishere6442 5 років тому +3

      Joffrey Blackfyre xD

    • @azarishere6442
      @azarishere6442 5 років тому +7

      Joffrey Blackfyre tyrion and varys kill the witch queen on stokeqorth fields

    • @xbouxix
      @xbouxix 5 років тому +4

      sup bro , & long live the black dragon

  • @ingainloggningsnamn
    @ingainloggningsnamn 2 роки тому +163

    Stark in Swedish also directly translates into Strong as well.

  • @Turtledira
    @Turtledira 2 роки тому +90

    Wow... I already thought that John Arryn's letter to Ned Stark, "the seed is strong", was in depth but this just blows my mind.

    • @Callsign_Prophet
      @Callsign_Prophet 2 роки тому +6

      That was referring to Baratheon phenotypes I thought

    • @JesusSerranoFireandIce
      @JesusSerranoFireandIce 2 роки тому +6

      @@Callsign_Prophet it was but this only deepens the lore

    • @vtheawesome
      @vtheawesome 2 роки тому

      He didn't say "the seed is house Strong"

  • @zakariaali8864
    @zakariaali8864 5 років тому +330

    What if this is how House Stark had been playing the Game of Thrones? By placing one of their own in the south to start their own family and slowly but surely take everything. Notice how similar Strong features are to 'the wolfsblood'? A thirst for battle, strong sexual desire, decisions dictated by impulses, rashness, strength in battle etc. They are basically one and the same.
    Baratheons all have Strong heritage, which is Stark heritage. This way, it is a Stark leading the Stormlands, even if they don't know they are Starks. The Strong's have been repeatedly in control of King's Landing. The Strongs once conquered the Riverlands, the *only neighbouring region connected by land to House Stark's domain* . There are Strong in the Golden Company, giving the Starks access to the strongest mercenary company in Essos. Not to mention the Company of the Rose, which is almost entirely made of Northmen who refused to bend the knee. In such a way, House Stark has kept an eye on and influenced the events of the Seven Kingdoms without anyone knowing, *a wolf in sheep's clothing, so to speak.*

    • @MM-xm5vx
      @MM-xm5vx 5 років тому +16

      Zakaria Ali I like this theory. Most starks army like Ned they are players of the game more like manderly in ADWD and Roose Bolton just with more honor:

    • @MrBrachiatingApe
      @MrBrachiatingApe 4 роки тому +25

      "A thirst for battle, strong sexual desire, decisions dictated by impulses, rashness, strength in battle etc."
      The modern Starks are not like that, same the ones with the wolf's blood.
      Not Ned, not Benjen, not Robb, Bran, Sansa, not Arya fits only parts.
      Rickon may be, one day. Brandon, Ned's brother was. Lyanna? Maybe

    • @matt_9112
      @matt_9112 4 роки тому +22

      This is not how this works. Especially with not even the Stark's themselves knowing about it and things like the Dance, BF rebellions, the Karstarks or the Greystarks showing us what blood (ties) far more recent are actually worth. Although the tendency for First Men houses to stock together (like e.g Blackwoods and Royces with Rob cannot be denied, but I highly doubt this effects members of the Golden Company, since their "melting pot" was far more recent and ignored the lines between Andals & First Men.

    • @Valiguss
      @Valiguss 2 роки тому +1

      While I doubt that the strings being so powerful would actually help the starks, but what if and this may make a lot of sense if your assessment of the wolf blood is correct, that with the blood of the strings in house Baratheon that Robert may have inherited it

    • @ricardoramirez5634
      @ricardoramirez5634 2 роки тому +3

      I need someone to make a northern superpower fanfic on this now!

  • @jasmineolivine
    @jasmineolivine Рік тому +5

    When George is listing First Men houses and the interviewer says "Seaworth" and George is like "Umm" I cracked up laughing.

  • @thalmoragent9344
    @thalmoragent9344 Рік тому +15

    As for the theory of Brienne being a descendant of Dunk, it would imply Dunk hooked up with one of Egg's sisters who was betrothed or married to the Lord of Evenfall, a lord of House Taarth.
    I dunno, been hearing more about House Taarth lately, and the Sapphire Isle sounds pretty cool.
    Would be a shame if the main bloodline of their House is actually extinct, and Brienne is of a line of Bastards. Not to mention, who's to say, maybe she's connected to Dunk not by his make line, but of a daughter Dunk had that married to a Lord of Evenfall

    • @marcospatricio8283
      @marcospatricio8283 6 місяців тому

      That makes more sense to me. Dunk had a bastard in Tarth, the boy or girl rose in prominence and achieved better marriages for his children, and Brienne is connected to him by her mother or one of her grandparents.

  • @tarvoc746
    @tarvoc746 4 роки тому +339

    Robert: "It's not too late, Ned. I have a son. You have a daughter. Let's unite our houses, Ned!"
    His Strong genes: "Hahahahaha joke's on you..."

    • @notaseal7864
      @notaseal7864 2 роки тому +10

      Haha jokes on him Sansa wasn't marrying Gendry anyways

    • @tarvoc746
      @tarvoc746 2 роки тому +6

      @@notaseal7864 Sansa also isn't the only option here, is she? And neither is Gendry, by the way. #JonSatin

    • @Tziguene
      @Tziguene 2 роки тому +8

      @@tarvoc746 this comment made me think, took me on a journey, then got me at the end lol -classic Misdirect, and deftly done. Cheers

    • @TaichouOwlf
      @TaichouOwlf 2 роки тому

      Sadly Robert never had a legit son..

    • @TheLastSane1
      @TheLastSane1 2 роки тому +1

      @@notaseal7864 Sansa likely has strong blood in her too after all her mother is from the Riverlands

  • @jojoladydayne7311
    @jojoladydayne7311 5 років тому +63

    Wonderful - us book lovers do so appreciate these new ideas and theories from the book canon - especially with the new season of the show nearly upon us it's like an antidote to all the trite rubbish around at the moment - thank you 💜

  • @kaotinwinterscream1143
    @kaotinwinterscream1143 2 роки тому +43

    I hope the House of the Dragon show does the Strongs justice. I think they are starting to hint that Larys is a greenseer or at least a skinchanger (a lot of shots of rats crawling around)

    • @cindym5896
      @cindym5896 2 роки тому +2

      Yassss. Love this theory. N i saw it on Joe Magician first. After dat, the other famous reviewers of the show caught on.
      I think they all watch this channel too as reference. 👏🤓

  • @albertoriveramena2897
    @albertoriveramena2897 2 роки тому +13

    Great vídeo. It leads me to think that "The seed is strong" goes both ways. Back to the Baratheons having Strong blood and to Jon Snow having Stark Blood

  • @grantwilson4506
    @grantwilson4506 5 років тому +62

    5:50 "Seaworth" a pure example of someone who isn't listening.

    • @fuzzydunlop7928
      @fuzzydunlop7928 3 роки тому +4

      I mean, it’s absolutely descriptive, as he’d just said so she was totally listening - she just betrayed having not read the second book. It made me wince, and I do feel bad for her because the gaff will live on in the fandom one way or another.

    • @matt_9112
      @matt_9112 3 роки тому +2

      Terribly ill-fit person for the job, imagine people who actually know the matter doing interviews...

  • @SunnyMcleod
    @SunnyMcleod 5 років тому +22

    Just FYI I lost it when I read Sara Snow since my irl name is Sara Friesen (yes freezin) and I'm also a woods witch

    • @geoDB.
      @geoDB. 2 роки тому

      Twisted

  • @TheDisputedLands
    @TheDisputedLands 5 років тому +89

    The seed is Strong :)

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +14

      Strong, Duncan Strong

    • @sunshinesilverarrow5292
      @sunshinesilverarrow5292 5 років тому +12

      Strong = Stark in Swedish 🤗
      About naming of "things" in GRRM books..most of us knows that the author likes to play with the words he puts in his books. And that the words often carry a special meaning..and for this reason the translated versions have to work in the same way as the author intended in English. Otherwise this story wouldn't work, i other languages.. some examples that's pops out and makes me smile are..
      • Lucamore..
      - Luca = light &/or sacred wood
      - More - additional &/or further, better
      Additional research..if you guys have any plans on doing a video about Winterfell, maybe this could come in handy. .
      Winterfell, eng.
      • winter (cold season) + fell (cut down, to fall..a hill or area..evil or cruel ..skin/hide) ..as you already know, having English as your first language. ( or is it? 😉 ..can't take thing for granted..)
      Vinterhed, Swedish
      • Vinter = Winter
      • Hed = downland or heath
      Talvivaara, Finnish
      • Talvi - winter
      • Vaara - danger, risk, threat, warning
      Winterfell, German
      • winter coat ..as in fur coat
      What makes me wonder is the Finnish choice of "Vaara" or "Vaarallinen"..it's a strong word also meaning "Unsafe!"
      Oki, end of word play..
      Great video Matt, collabs are always nice, especially when the result is as good as this.
      Taker care. Hugs & sunshine☀️ N

    • @ranica47
      @ranica47 5 років тому +4

      @@sunshinesilverarrow5292 More (or Mór) means big in Irish and Scots Gaelic.
      I've always thought Winterfell can have different meanings even in English: a fell is like a marshy, boggy area in the cold North (winter); is it the place where the White Walkers were defeated during the Long Night (fell in this instance meaning defeated); or is it where Winter (WW) "fell upon" the Stark stronghold?

    • @sunshinesilverarrow5292
      @sunshinesilverarrow5292 5 років тому +3

      @@ranica47 Exactly, what does it mean!?! 😉 And good point of yours.
      And I love the Scott and Irish "lesson"..when ever I hear it, I always think it sounds so much like old Swedish.. "Sla'inte!" or as they say in the country I live in "Skål!"

    • @mrmarmellow555
      @mrmarmellow555 4 роки тому +2

      Hey Great COLAB AYE!! Cherz Too Both U GREAT LITER'ARTI💷💃😎

  • @Thecrimsonking01
    @Thecrimsonking01 Рік тому +3

    One of the best house lore videos I've seen

  • @stickler6014
    @stickler6014 3 роки тому +9

    Loved how you got Robert to read.

  • @JoshuaHenelyThornhill
    @JoshuaHenelyThornhill 2 роки тому +2

    The seeds is indeed strong with this video my friend !

  • @YoYo-wo3lm
    @YoYo-wo3lm 5 років тому +42

    In deep geek reading was a nice touch

    • @jamesdavidson1965
      @jamesdavidson1965 5 років тому +3

      Yo Yo was trying to remember who it’s was thank you 😂

  • @nordicjourneys
    @nordicjourneys 5 років тому +14

    Stark means strong in danish Norwegian swedish and old english also! For example I do strong man competitions in sweden called “starkeviking”

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому

      I think we can rename those "DuncaStrongs"

  • @pallen2645
    @pallen2645 2 роки тому +30

    I've always felt Harrenhal was important, perhaps the most important castle of Westeros. As such, any of the houses which held the seat historically are likely filled with hidden meaning.

    • @bumpotato1922
      @bumpotato1922 2 роки тому +3

      Well it's infamous alright.. Every house that was granted Harrenhal died out

    • @pallen2645
      @pallen2645 2 роки тому +5

      @@bumpotato1922 Some lasted longer than others. In particular the Lothstons and Whents (itself a junior branch of Lothston) did fairly well. My best guess is that their signature red hair is a clue they descend from Harren the Red, and so have the blood of house Hoare. Kind of makes you wonder why Littlefinger was both obsessed with Cat and Sansa's red hair while himself coveting Harrenhal.

    • @thalmoragent9344
      @thalmoragent9344 Рік тому

      @@pallen2645
      Huh, that's interesting
      The Blood of House Hoare allows for a family to hold the seat of Harrenhall longer than the average house, sounds interesting.

    • @Augusto_Pinochet
      @Augusto_Pinochet Рік тому

      Well, Winterfell is the most important, really.

    • @pallen2645
      @pallen2645 Рік тому

      @@Augusto_Pinochet Winterfell was the status quo. It is what is has been for thousands of years. It's a part of the system that had kept things the same as how they had been. But Harrenhal is new, it's a seat of change, and for whatever reason it's construction marks the date when everything changed.

  • @spartanzombiexd8939
    @spartanzombiexd8939 5 років тому +39

    The woman suggesting seaworth cracks me up.

    • @daddyleon
      @daddyleon 5 років тому +4

      For a split second for me too, then I'm deeply annoyed..wtaf is she there then??

  • @bklyntraveler9705
    @bklyntraveler9705 5 років тому +64

    If Osmond Strong build the walls at Kings Landing, is it possible he built certain passageways (similar to how Tyrion knew about the secret passageways) that makes it look like Winterfell, or that the people from Winterfell would recognize by a certain building pattern (how the passages are laid out, etc.)? Syrio Forell was very clear to tell Arya which turns to make at one point - perhaps there is a pattern.

    • @samlasalle3853
      @samlasalle3853 2 роки тому +1

      Might explain how Larys was able to sneak around too

    • @jmadsenmn
      @jmadsenmn 2 роки тому +7

      @@samlasalle3853 Larys is a warg, watch the early episodes, they pay an odd amount of attention to rats. Mysaria has a web of spies but they haven't revealed how Larys gets his information yet. It's not a stretch that a first man is able to warg, the wildlings had plenty

  • @unstoppableExodia
    @unstoppableExodia 5 років тому +3

    I loved this video it was like I learnt something from the books that isn't touched on in the show without needing to actually read a book. That makes me very happy

  • @wayfaringman8418
    @wayfaringman8418 5 років тому +45

    This tinfoil tastes like steak. I'll have another helping in the Disputed Lands. Thanks!

  • @christianbolze7092
    @christianbolze7092 2 роки тому +5

    An excellent theory and very well researched. There is also something i might add. During the conquest of the Vale there was a "witch" of House Upcliff, a First Men House of the Vale, who supported Robar Royce against the Andals. This member of House Upcliff died in the battle, but the Upcliffs did just what you described with the other First Men houses - they stayed independent until one of their brides married into House Arryn and brought Witch Isle into the dominion of the Vale.

  • @quarterbackin3262
    @quarterbackin3262 2 роки тому +3

    Because of your videos House Strong might be my new favorite house in Westeros 😉

  • @TeshnosFire
    @TeshnosFire 5 років тому +18

    15:18 That's a mirror of Florys the Fox, one of the daughters of Garth. x'D She also kept 3 husbands, each ignorant of the other. lel

  • @ferrm1992
    @ferrm1992 2 роки тому +5

    I hope we get to see Cregan Stark in the show. That dude was a badass

    • @nickdentoom1173
      @nickdentoom1173 2 роки тому

      I mean... not only Cregan. I want to see Bloody Ben and the Tully brothers.

  • @vanessaamesty6739
    @vanessaamesty6739 5 років тому +30

    This makes a lot of Sense because Orys Baratheon didn't seem to be exactly a Strong, so I wonder if the current Baratheon genes were from the Dundarron's or something else, the Strong blood is a good explanation but Rogar Baratheon had also very Baratheon characteristics even tho he was previous to Lucamore's bastards. So it may be a mix of both Dundarron and Strong blood what they make today Baratheon characteristics.

    • @joeycognition3260
      @joeycognition3260 5 років тому +1

      There's no inditcation to any of this %he, house Durrandon was a very martial house filled with conquerors. I would assume the last king was a strong man himself no? We can't assume every strong character is from house strong lineage. Besides breakbones how many Strongs members were actually strong? I also don't recall GRRM going into details about Orys physique, he was of curse known as a fierce warrior with great marital prowess. Which is evident in other Baratheons

    • @thalmoragent9344
      @thalmoragent9344 Рік тому +1

      @@joeycognition3260
      I imagine Aerion Targaryen slept with a woman with Blood of the First Men, so whoever that may be, Strong or not, it would explain the features.

  • @AndrewK23777
    @AndrewK23777 5 років тому +18

    Joe / Matt , absolutely fantastic breakdown of a mysterious and seemingly quite important House to the narrative and its history. No idea why i didn't get this notification when it came out (UA-cam's fault not your own) but what a treat when I came across it doing the usual browse of your channel & content. There have been brief Strong mentions in the ASoIaF series but clearly a massive step up in terms of frequency , influence and importance in F & B which I expect to continue into the next installment. From their evolution from a supplementary house to the crown and other powerful houses into having their own climbing ambitions. Along with their influence on past events, connections to powerful people in history , potential Stark association , possible notable descendants and what seems to be likely infiltration of some of the most powerful bloodlines on the continent. Not only the parallels to the ancient past but to those in the current narrative as well are quite abound.
    With GRRM it seems pretty much any mysterious First Men House not living in the North will have a fair degree of influence on the current ASoIaF narrative and its histories from the Blackwoods , Daynes or as presented here , the Strongs. To me the Strongs are becoming the Chekov's gun , similar to how GRRM mentioned about Nymeria and her wolfpack , in that you don't put it out there not to use it ; to me it seems the huge uptick in mentions of House Strong (in F & B which i expect the trend to continue in part two) all the connections that result from them and so many members of their House in positions of influence in the past through to almost the current Planetos/Westerosi timeline ; has to be an indication that more concrete evidence may emerge from GRRM of the big part the Strong's played in the narrative’s past and possibly more recently as well. Alys Rivers in particular was a fascinating piece of F & B , telepathic skull exploding and strangulation is certainly an attention getter coupled with her other possible general abilities, influence on Aemond , carrying his illegitimate child and seemingly defacto Lady of Harrenhal at one point. I look forward to seeing where her arc goes in the next F & B installment. Ntm Qyburn giving the undead science wight formerly The Mountain the name Strong (Robert Strong) must have something to do with what he discovered at Harrenhal during his time there.
    Great vid , interesting insights and I totally agree House Strong is a name on the rise with GRRM which i expect to be expanded upon in subsequent novels from him.

  • @AmplifyNova
    @AmplifyNova 3 місяці тому +1

    Coming back to this video after HotD is fascinating. Condal is connecting the Old magic with the fate of the Targs on screen. Makes you wonder if the outrage at Daemons vision in S2E8 of HotD is unwarranted. FB clearly points to this deeper Old magic connection to the Dance.
    Btw your analysis is awesome. You were on all this 5 years ago. Impressive stuff!!

  • @thecomet6276
    @thecomet6276 5 років тому +9

    Watching again so I can actually pay attention. 😘 Thanks Joe! I always enjoy the inclusion of a good live chat. Well done, Magic J!

  • @hahahahahaha9026
    @hahahahahaha9026 5 років тому +9

    Oh Matt, what a great video and Robert quoted the passages so beautifully 😍 can't wait for your next live stream collabs!

  • @MichaelMedici61W2
    @MichaelMedici61W2 4 роки тому +28

    I love how you got my boy Robert from In Deep Geek in this video..
    That’s funny how you mentioned Clubfoot.. he and a knight from that house were the only to be executed by the MAN Lord Cregan Stark. Who in my opinion and besides the Dragon Knight is the best ! Most honorable, loyal.. sword play?? Forget about it! Even the Dragon Knight said he never faced a better swordsman... anyway... I know I went way off there. Thanks for doing this video because like you said... people just don’t know about this House and it’s members and what a role they have and most likely will play in the upcoming stories.

  • @NessaGurll
    @NessaGurll 5 років тому +23

    So clever! Love this!! I've tried to align all of the current characters with the past to see what the future holds. But I get lost because many of them could parallel two or three others.

  • @thedelacruz
    @thedelacruz 4 роки тому +3

    @5:52. Always loved GRRM's reaction here. Like "Lady...be quiet...Seaworth...Davos is not a first man. In fact that name came from Stannis when he knighted him. .." Seaworth" Slap!!

  • @shawn6669
    @shawn6669 4 роки тому +17

    I'd say Queen Alyssane could just as likely have been talking about the Blackwoods or the Massey's as the Strong's. For all that there's been a lot on the Strongs more recently the Blackwoods have a much bigger part in the story as well as a stronger connection to the Starks. FWIW. Cheers! S.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  4 роки тому +3

      Good thoughts! I just figured the Strongs because of the friendship with Lucamore. He doesn't seem great with secrets and the rest of their family seems to bend that way, especially Alys. A return to the Old Ways.

  • @VideoNozoki
    @VideoNozoki 2 роки тому +3

    Thank you. Really well done. Thoroughly enjoyed watching this: so logically and clearly explained, my eyes widened to the larger picture.

  • @SaveUsMarku
    @SaveUsMarku 2 роки тому +3

    Been seeing a lot of your content in my feed old and new lately man, Enjoyed every video I have watched so far homie.
    Great job, kisses. hugs. respect brotha.

  • @artostheimplacable4095
    @artostheimplacable4095 3 роки тому +6

    The Baratheons come from the lines of Durran Godsgrief and "the Strong Right hand" of Aegon, Orys. They don't need any help from house Strong to be Strong.
    Great Video though. I can't believe I've never seen this channel before.

    • @TheLastSane1
      @TheLastSane1 2 роки тому +1

      We don't know Orys mother remember the Targaryens were on Dragonstone for awhile, whos to say Aegon's dad didn't bed a Strong Woman.

  • @Tleanantz
    @Tleanantz 5 років тому +21

    AGOT is actually ck2 game and player just liked their name, So they were granted important position.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +9

      It all makes sense now, it's always the ck2 players

    • @Tleanantz
      @Tleanantz 5 років тому +7

      @@JoeMagician Aerys the mad was actually the result of Player cheesing his way into Alchemist guild by intentionally get captured by Cruel Darklyn.

    • @rebornstillborn
      @rebornstillborn 4 роки тому +6

      @@Tleanantz Explains all the incest to be honest.

    • @evanmack8527
      @evanmack8527 3 роки тому

      Why you gotta call me out like tgat

  • @amandalynn7480
    @amandalynn7480 2 роки тому +24

    here after seeing the beautiful harwin strong

  • @Bludgeoned2DEATH2
    @Bludgeoned2DEATH2 2 роки тому +8

    If Jacaerys had been King as he was the heir to the true Queen Rhaenyra we could have had a Half Strong/Half Targaryen King :(

    • @geoDB.
      @geoDB. 2 роки тому +1

      He would be his own dynasty if found out

  • @baraun
    @baraun 2 роки тому +8

    I always wo dered why G. R. R. Martin wouldn't named the House Stark as "House Strong" and "wasted" that name with a minor house of Westeros until I read "Fire and Blood"

  • @kanejones99
    @kanejones99 5 років тому +26

    Indeep Geek should read for the audiobooks, if Winds and a Dream of Spring ever comes out

    • @fuzzydunlop7928
      @fuzzydunlop7928 3 роки тому +3

      Oh no, that means he’ll have to read the sex scenes too. lol

    • @SamanthaBoooooooo
      @SamanthaBoooooooo 3 роки тому +2

      @@fuzzydunlop7928 Robert reading "cock" made my whole day ☺️

  • @jojoladydayne7311
    @jojoladydayne7311 5 років тому +7

    Robert saying Lady Dustin's bloody sword speech 😲 I blushed 😆

    • @jojoladydayne7311
      @jojoladydayne7311 5 років тому +1

      Actually Although I blushed I'd love to give that reading a go 😄

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +6

      It's the small things I enjoy when making these videos, and getting stoic, polite Robert to read a semi-sex scene is one of them.

    • @jojoladydayne7311
      @jojoladydayne7311 5 років тому +1

      @@JoeMagician good job👍 🤣

    • @wanderbyy
      @wanderbyy 5 років тому +1

      🤣

  • @MagnaMater2
    @MagnaMater2 4 роки тому +12

    Ah, I'm very late to this discussion, but since Riverlanders don't marry siblings but only cousins beside Blackwoods and Brackens GRRM badly needed a third - and very magical First-Men Riverland-House with Dragon-links, he could explain the magical strength of Daenerys Bloodline. Untill it is established, it can't be explained why Egg failed at hatching his egg, while his granddaughter succeeded being of even thinner dragon-blood. (Though both of Betha Blackwoods grandmothers might be Bloodraven's sisters. Riverlanders don't marry siblings, only cousins, so one of them needed to marry somebody... really Strong.) - That Daenerys' blood also ran Strong would be very welcome.

    • @sblack4951
      @sblack4951 2 роки тому

      it could also be because he was a boy. so far only when certain females are around do dragon eggs hatch

  • @detestor420
    @detestor420 Рік тому

    Great video !! House Strong is one of greatest forgetten houses. A feast for crows is one of my favorites of the series

  • @CoachPritch
    @CoachPritch 5 років тому +6

    Wow, you’ve made a believer out of me! Always feel silly for missing so much from my initial reading/listening of these books...

  • @philipohanrahan2448
    @philipohanrahan2448 5 років тому +13

    Really fascinating theory however I'd contend with the idea that the Baratheon's have the 'Strong' gene in them, as it were, as Rogar Baratheon (along with Orys, but I'm thinking especially of Rogar) was shown to be a very battle-loving guy, and quite sex-driven as well. This is made all the more problematic when the little accounts we get of Durrandons (WOIAF was very weak on the Stormlands front sadly) show traits that would be familiar to Robert Baratheon's friends. I think the Baratheon's behaving like that is just, well, Baratheon/Durrandon temperament.
    This theory is really interesting though because now it provides at least some form of avenue for understanding Larys' motives. Larys has always been an enigma; definitely anti-Rhanyra, yet not clearly on the greens side either (he did, after all, assassinate Aegon II). He was also completely willing to die when he could have taken the black to avoid death, so pure personal power seems unlikely. The connection with the Old Gods, the Weirwoods, and Alys Rivers gives room for people who know much more than me to dive into his behaviour and explain it. Thank you so much for it, it's a great video!

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +4

      Personally I think the parallels between Robert and Lucamore are fairly definitive in terms of we are supposed to see them as linked characters, and we know for sure the Strongs ended up in Storm's End. But no reason it couldn't be a little bit of both. The sharp increase in size and height and change in temperment in interesting to me as well. The old Baratheons were pretty grim and angry, after Lucamore's children show up there's a lot more......Laughing Storm and Robert types.
      Larys is a character I'd love to see a full analysis on, I found him really interesting but didn't fit in with the narrow angle of this video so a lot of what I wrote about him hit the cutting room floor. I agree with your read, does not seem to be in favor of either side and he rather....meekly accepted Cregan's justice when we know he can be impossible to find when he wants to. It's like he submitted personally to the Lord of Winterfell in particular.

  • @MadeUpLikeADoll
    @MadeUpLikeADoll 2 роки тому +2

    This is very good. I don’t know how I missed hearing this one but I’m glad it came up as a suggestion.

  • @mrmu7ammed1
    @mrmu7ammed1 4 роки тому +5

    Enjoyable video, but the Starks have the long as their most distinctive feature (I gather) i remember Craster (the wildling) guessing who is Jon Snow because of his look.

  • @MrSilversteen
    @MrSilversteen 2 роки тому +2

    Hearing In Deep Geek was such a pleasant surprise! Great vid

  • @bclr6843
    @bclr6843 Рік тому

    I love this channel. I don’t want it to be one of those channels that’s makes to many videos nobody cares about but I really wish he made more videos and look forward to the next one

  • @KenDelloSandro7565
    @KenDelloSandro7565 5 років тому +3

    Wow, this stuff is LEGIT!!! Great video. Keep them coming.

  • @Sporking
    @Sporking 2 роки тому +2

    Joe as great as ever

  • @stepanija
    @stepanija 5 років тому +2

    Craker of a video Matt! Beautifully put together

  • @vanessaamesty6739
    @vanessaamesty6739 5 років тому +18

    I wonder what happened to Alys son or daughter and if she or he when on to become a Blackwood, Went, or part of House Stark again.

    • @allyriastark3508
      @allyriastark3508 5 років тому +4

      He was trueborn son of Aemond for Alys but we have no information about them, interesting we have Saera, Aemond and Aerion's lineages are still alive along with remaining Targaryens and Blackfyres

    • @vanessaamesty6739
      @vanessaamesty6739 5 років тому +3

      @@allyriastark3508 I want to know what happened to little Maegor as well, interesting

    • @evanmack8527
      @evanmack8527 3 роки тому +1

      @@vanessaamesty6739 fax

  • @Baratheon.
    @Baratheon. 5 років тому +8

    this was a special video, loved it
    the drum beat in the background really brang the hype
    makes me think..Stannis, more Baratheon than Strong? maybe not. since people think Stannis seems more at home in the North & even gets described as Stark-like in the way of the older Kings of Winter would have been

  • @robarbaratheon5169
    @robarbaratheon5169 5 років тому +3

    Top shelf lore & theory.
    Another!

  • @heatherross1500
    @heatherross1500 2 роки тому +1

    What I heard during the Brienne chapter reading...
    "Guests could throw a LION out the window and catch a trout." 🤣
    I had to pause and actually read that it said "line".

  • @mojoriot2293
    @mojoriot2293 5 років тому +3

    Great deep dive! Loved the ending too!

  • @bingtunder683
    @bingtunder683 2 роки тому +1

    Learned a lot about the Indus Valley civilisation and even the smallest name drop makes me happy

  • @seanofhumanity5942
    @seanofhumanity5942 2 роки тому +11

    great video, I've been wondering about this a lot since House of the Dragon dropped. The bigger question for me is what it implies for Rhaenyra and Harwin's possible relationship. Could Rhaenyra be trying to fulfill the prophecy of ice and fire by hooking up with House Strong? Was Harwin's death to a fire at Harrenhal really an accident? or as i suspect, an intentional sacrifice? As we've seen with Visery's, prophecy makes the otherwise kind Targaryen's do abominable things and Jacaerys has a lot of the hallmarks of the prince that was promised prophecy.

  • @gerritpeacock8949
    @gerritpeacock8949 2 роки тому +9

    In Deep Geek has such a great voice for GRRM readings. This is still well thought out material. I would elect IDG for the reading of the next novel.

  • @Geschmack
    @Geschmack 2 роки тому +2

    Amazing analysis! Thanks for sharing

  • @kgregg8817
    @kgregg8817 2 роки тому

    You talking about Alys being a wet nurse that's also feeding the kids magic, reminds me of old Nan and her stories and Winterfell 🥰

  • @teamthoth
    @teamthoth 5 років тому +9

    Greyarea sent me here.

    • @jess420haze
      @jess420haze 5 років тому +1

      charmaine684 #sweetsummerchild

  • @allthingstoi3117
    @allthingstoi3117 2 роки тому +2

    This is an excellent deep dive on this connection!

  • @kevinerives8975
    @kevinerives8975 Рік тому +4

    Finally someone notices the fact stark means strong in german.

  • @cenewman007
    @cenewman007 5 років тому +7

    House Ghost Rider. good one! Also, the narration by Robert was an awesome touch. Up Thumbed

  • @profoundpronoun4712
    @profoundpronoun4712 4 роки тому +2

    Super interesting. Thanks for posting

  • @millibillionth
    @millibillionth 5 років тому +15

    I wonder if the split lineage of Starks and Strongs and the Trident symbolism are connected. If so, is there a third lineage?

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +5

      Great question! If we follow the rivers, maybe there's a branch in the South of the Riverlands.

    • @millibillionth
      @millibillionth 4 роки тому +11

      @@JoeMagician I've looked up the ethimology of the names Duran / Durand, and they come from the Latin name Durandus, meaning strong and enduring.

    • @bierwolf8360
      @bierwolf8360 3 роки тому +5

      @@millibillionth the three rivers of the trident (green fork, blue fork and red fork) spring forth in the North, the Riverlands and Westerlands respectively. A third line could thus be found perhaps in the Westerlands, which actually has quite a few notable Firstman houses: the Crakehalls (who are often strong and tall, natural warriors. They are also described as lusty: " My third wife was a Crakehall, all of the Crakehall women are sluts.[20]
      -Walder Frey to Catelyn Stark"), the Farmans (less likely), the Westerlings (probably not either), the Baneforts (ruled as the Hooded Kings and were said to engage in magic, especially necromancy! Also, Banefort as in Bane and Fort, fort in French is strong. Bane doesn't really fit in though: except if they are the bane of the forts, the bane of the strongs. A rival of the Westerlander line then?) and lastly there'd be house Moreland (their sigil is green and brown, all very nature-like. They were founded by Pate the Plowman. That plays well with the fertility thing as well as being very ancient).

    • @millibillionth
      @millibillionth 3 роки тому

      @@bierwolf8360 Interesting information! It would make sense to find another ancient "strong" lineage in the westerlands.

    • @SSolemn
      @SSolemn 7 місяців тому +1

      That could explain man like the Hound and the Mountain being from the Westerlands.... they look very "Strong"

  • @riquelimberger
    @riquelimberger 2 роки тому +3

    "The seed is Strong" - Arryn, Jon

  • @blackeyedlily
    @blackeyedlily 5 років тому +8

    Another great video. I look forward to the upcoming discussion. BTW, what is the origin of your opening music? It always reminds me of “In the Hall of the Mountain King.”

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +3

      Thank you Lily! It'll be a great discussion for sure. The full song can be heard here. freemusicarchive.org/music/Tagirijus/Cinematic_2017/manuel_senfft_-_hidden_castle
      I liked it because it reminded of something from Fantasia. If I ever get a longer intro animation I may use more of it.

  • @b_a_z_e_dv.2.067
    @b_a_z_e_dv.2.067 5 років тому +8

    I think my favourite part of fire and blood was the fact the last Strong standing requested his club foot be taken off and it was later stolen. In the current story, that foot could easily appear much like the dragon egg. Though I doubt it being a gift.

    • @DevakiKhanna
      @DevakiKhanna 4 роки тому +1

      Hoster Blackwood (ADwD) has a club foot.

  • @cameronjadewallace
    @cameronjadewallace 2 роки тому +5

    I recognize that voice! No one has a more calming voice than Robert from In Deep Geek!

  • @rodneyharvey3341
    @rodneyharvey3341 3 роки тому +5

    Starks and targaryen are linked together by opposite attraction

  • @KaritKtana
    @KaritKtana 2 роки тому +1

    👏👏👏 Thoroughly excellent video!

  • @jeffgustafson4552
    @jeffgustafson4552 5 років тому +4

    Woot!!! Get Hyped. George Planned it All along!!

  • @danielirl9252
    @danielirl9252 2 роки тому +1

    Convenient that this has popped up now

  • @prof.cecilycogsworth3204
    @prof.cecilycogsworth3204 5 років тому +2

    An excellent video! Kudos!

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 років тому +1

      I love kudos tbh, those were great snacks

  • @hashimbokhamseen7877
    @hashimbokhamseen7877 5 років тому +1

    it all makes sense now.
    great video

  • @asmahk76
    @asmahk76 2 роки тому +5

    Truly enjoying your videos, Matt! Incredible work. Thank you so much.

  • @prairieskye
    @prairieskye 4 роки тому +2

    This is superb. Thank you for your insights

  • @paulgalligan1916
    @paulgalligan1916 2 роки тому +1

    Newly subbed
    Loving it so far gonna make my way through your content ☘️

  • @copyrightviolators
    @copyrightviolators 2 роки тому +12

    After fathering all these people but ultimately meeting deadly or ignoble ends, their words are coming out more like
    "Don't care, had sex", than anything else.

  • @neverfinishedstory
    @neverfinishedstory 4 роки тому +2

    Late one in but end had me wince at jojen paste 'wierwood seed paste'

  • @fredericocr1
    @fredericocr1 2 роки тому +2

    Good choice having the reading from the in deep geek channel

  • @frankcasale4334
    @frankcasale4334 5 років тому +4

    great video....really great job of bringing together all the hints about the importance of the strongs...i've often wondered if they served some structural purpose with the isle of faces as the starks do in the north winterfell/the wall (her name also resonated with the witch king of angmar)

  • @DevakiKhanna
    @DevakiKhanna 4 роки тому +5

    So what's the relationship among houses Strong, Lothston and Whent? Don't forget Catelyn's mother was a Whent of Harrenhal...

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  4 роки тому +2

      Doesn't seem to be any. Lothson and Whent came long after the Strongs had died out. Not unless we get new inform in Fire and Blood 2 about the fate of Alys Rivers and her child with Aemond One Eye.

  • @leahvogelsimpson
    @leahvogelsimpson 5 років тому +1

    I was just reading about this on reddit. Thanks!

  • @somersetbassett4580
    @somersetbassett4580 2 роки тому +1

    great video 👍