4 Songs with Confusing Intros
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
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Check out my previous video on songs with confusing intros: • 6 Songs with Confusing...
The outro music to this video is my track "Clap" which you can hear in full on Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/0wKKJ... 🎶
This is the cover of Beetlebum I used in this video: • Beetlebum - Blur (Full...
And, an extra special thanks goes to Peter Keller, Douglas Lind, Vidad Flowers, Ivan Pang, Waylon Fairbanks, Jon Dye, Austin Russell, Christopher Ryan, Toot & Paul Peijzel, the channel’s Patreon saints! 😇
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0:00 What is a Confusing Intro?
0:33 Fashion by David Bowie
1:24 Veridis Quo by Daft Punk
3:20 Car Wash by Rose Royce
5:58 Hooktheory
6:40 Beetlebum by Blur
9:30 Patreon
i think because claps are so commonly used on beats 2 and 4, that even with no other elements to provide context it still feels like its supposed to be on beats 2 and 4.
This. Anyone who hears claps as being 1 and 3 needs to check themselves!
Yeah, it's how you separate the musicians from the non-musicians.
Claps, snares and other "white noise" goes on the 2 and the 4. Bass goes on the 1 and 3. Obviously.
@@klaxoncow Agree but I think even jsut careful listeners also would notice that claps are mostly used as a snare.
Hmm, maybe we can separate people who have musical potential hah
Claps ring in the range of snare like electric kits or midi options but when an audience claps along its usually in a folk or acoustic or maybe gospel setting likely without drums and they are encouraged to clap on beat
The song Veridis Quo is actually very smart play on words. It means ‘Where are you going’ in latin, but it also sounds like ‘Very Disco’ which is a pangram for ‘Discovery’ the name of the album ;). Clever, just like the intro
an anagram you mean, coz a pangram is a phrase that features every letter of the alphabet at least once
That would be 'vadis', not 'veridis'.
The actual Latin phrase is "quo vadis" so the pun is a bit of a stretch. Interestingly, the change from "disco-very" to "very-disco" could be seen as an example of _verlan_ which is a French method of producing cant words where the syllables are reversed (e.g. verlan itself, which comes from l'invers), which might make it the only (certainly most famous) example of _verlanised dog latin_
It would be pronounced more like 'wery discwo'. The v can be pronounced like the English v if you want to sound like an old Italian pronouncing Latin, but the qu works the same in Latin, Italian, and English.
Also what ButzPunk said. My dictionary can't find veridis as the inflected form of any word and Google Translate thinks it's an inflection of veritas (truth).
Also, for the English translation of "Quo vadis?", I like, "Whither goest thou?" However, veridis looks more like vaditis to me, so maybe it should be, "Where y'all going?"
@@chitlitlah That is the transliterated spelling, so the v is pronounced as a v in English. Also the title is a reference to Quo Vadis, confirmed by the artists.
The best example pf a confusing intro i can think of is Everybody Want's to Rule the World. The misdirect isn't that long, only a couple of bars, but it misleads you on the tempo as well as the rhythym.
I like how later in the song you hear the opening keyboard notes again, this time with the rest of the band to let you know the correct timing
The bell ringing at the beginning of High Hopes by Pink Floyd is another one. It gets you nicely into thinking it's on the 1 but when the keyboard comes in you realise that the bell is not even ringing on the 2 and 4 but on the '2-and' & '4-and' - an eighth note behind the 1 and 3.
There’s a fun video of Harry Connick Jr. playing a solo and the crowd is clapping along, then his bandmates start laughing as he keeps playing.
He had just played a measure of 5/4 to get the crowd clapping on the 2 and 4, and no one noticed but the musicians.
so cool!
Great clip I found it today. You can see the drummer in the background raising his arms in celebration after the 5/4 measure and it immediately sounds much more swingy!
One of my favorite examples of a misleading intro is “La Mer” by Nine Inch Nails. The piano plays a 3/4 riff to start off the song. The drums come in playing 4/4 and the bass follows the piano in 3/4. It’s a really cool song!
ooooo polymetres!
the most beautiful track trent has made
@@grief8060 I might have to agree with you there
I think the cool thing about NIN using weird time signatures is that they groove so well you often don't even notice that it is a weird time signature - eg: The Becoming and Just Like You Imagined.
@@chrischurchill4978 sooo true. And even the songs where you can tell there’s some weird time, those songs STILL groove hard. “March of the Pigs” and “The Collector” for instance
Not first, but i'm the real downbeat!
lmaooo
Nice
No one like this, it's at 69
Wow..... well done.
More like the real deadbeat
Marc Cohn's Walking in Memphis always throws me off. Not just from the intro onward, but already starting there. Feels like the singing sets in on the wrong beat every single time, and then when the chorus hits I'm completely lost.
Rock and Roll by Led Zeppelin is one that even most drummers struggle to get right.
When I learned about this, it felt like the most enlightening thing ever.
There is also Invaders Must Die by the Prodigy. the bass loop which starts the song basically begins on bar 4 of an incomplete 4 bar loop.
Also: the reason Car Wash is confusing is because the kick drum enters with the claps on 2 and 4. So even if you feel it correctly at first, it makes you second guess.
Interestingly, I remember a time when Veridis Quo and Car Wash were new to me and I heard them the wrong way, but after listening to them so many times, I basically trained my brain to hear them correctly.
Not an intro, but the middle 8 section of Lean On Me by Bill Withers is very metrically confusing, since I've never heard a single cover that does it the same as the original.
also david love your videos you got me into music theory, and i am about to do abrsm grade 8 because of you
Well done!!
@@DavidBennettPiano thank you! :)
THANK YOU for including Car Wash. FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS CLAP ON 1 & 3! I once had to stand my ground against six other members of the band, who insisted that I was out of my mind. (All professional musicians, too.) They had inserted an extra beat when the tune started to compensate for the mistake. But if you notice, the clapping keeps going throughout the rest of the song and it becomes obvious that it's on the 2 & 4. My bandmates tried to insist that Rose Royce "meant to do that". But I stood my ground and won out in the end. It was beyond frustrating for me as they were really snarky about it. Eventually they came round, but not without a fight. I was so sad that day, I'll never forget it. So now I feel validated! Thanks, David. You're the best. :)
There are so many covers of Beetlebum on UA-cam that get the timing wrong. It’s easily done, I heard it the wrong way for a long time.
Yeah, that always confuses me when I hear it. I feel like Damon’s singing shifts from slightly earlier in the intro to the verse as well, which means you re hear the “wrong” timing even when you know the song.
i think the confusing thing is trying to count the guitar part as quarter notes. to me it's always been pretty clearly eighths.
Some more great examples!
😀👍
Another one of many is Rush's song 'Stick It Out', in which it becomes clear only once the singing starts how to count the beat 🙂
Alan Parsons Project - I Robot. The sequenced and quantized bass synth line comes in and it's so regularly paced... and because it fades in, the downbeat could be anywhere. Then finally the drums come in to give you the reference point for the 1, but they've got a shuffle groove to them, and suddenly somehow the synth becomes the off-beat part.
I've always heard "Veridis Quo" the intended way, but that's probably because I was already used to that kind of arpeggio in classical music, and I subconsciously ignored the offset bass notes.
Same
I hate when this happens lol you are bopping your head then all of sudden a different count comes in lol
I kinda love it. For me it has the same impact as syncopation; it feels lively and unexpected in a sort of satisfying way
I find a lot of genres where syncopation is a big component can be hard to count along to in the beginning. My favorite example is “The Impression That I Get” by The Mighty Mighty Bosstones. A Ska punk song where the first 4 bars are just the guitar and the rest of the band (minus the drums) is the next 4 bars. Then the drums come in and finally anchors the rhythm to the correct place.
It’s *only* the guitar for the first four bars and I think the sustains do a pretty good job anchoring the rhythm pretty early on. YMMV, naturally.
The thing that blew my mind years down the line is that someone pointed out to me that there’s an invisible comma in the refrain: “I’ve neeeeeeever had to, knock on wood-“ which changes the start of the chorus from a declaration of autonomy to a statement of empathy for everyone who’s eeeeever had to do the things the verses ask about. Which is out of the scope of this video but I can’t believe I had to have that pointed out.
I really like your channel. I like that you seem to be throughout in what sponsorships you pick and that you put emphasis on teaching. Also, cool with Clap at the end
I definitely hear Beetlebum a different (the 'correct') way to you. Was so confused by how you were counting it.
I need a part 4 of this great series.
For me a better example for Daft Punk would be Daftendirekt. Veridis Quo didn't give me trouble when I first heard it, but for Daftendirekt my first listen was great because the beat came in and established in almost a goosebumpy way after the low-pass filter was effectively off
Identikit by Radiohead also messed with me when I first heard it!
The Butcher still messes me up every time.
Now matter how many times I listen to Beetlebum and figure out the right rhythm, it always trips me up the next time!...
Great video, David, as usual!
I never would have imagined that one could count Beetlebum the wrong way. As a guitar player, it always seemed natural to count the muted strings intro as counting 1, 2, 3, 4.
Two songs that always come to mind are Cups by Underworld (which is pretty cheeky about tricking you at the beginning) and Swap Meet by Nirvana. Now that my ears have figured out what's going on in Swap Meet, I actually have a hard time not hearing it the right way, and honestly I kind of miss how my brain used to interpret the intro. It's like a black/blue-yellow/white dress situation.
I’ve listened to Beetlebum approximately a billion times probably and I’ve never noticed this lol
Yeah, I don't even know the song but I struggled to hear it "wrong." Same with Car Wash.
Yeah, for some reason I never heard it “wrong” either
Ay, first music UA-camr I've seen to cover my fav daft punk song, so ty for that
2 songs come to mind. Tell Me Something Good by Chaka Khan and Nautilus by Close to the Sun both have decieving intros. Tell Me Something Good presents an up down pattern with a mute on the downbeat but starts on an offbeat tricking you into hearing the mute as an offbeat, and Nautilus has a sonar ping on the and of 1 but the beat doesn't come in for 10 measures. The bass and keys do come in hinting at its true spot in the beat, but until the drums come in there's no confirmation until then
Nirvana - Swap meet, to me the riffs "totally changes" when drums come in, but is the same riff with another "1"
Nice Vid, David. I think about these types of intros a lot, too. Some that spring to mind are:
Pistol of Fire - Kings Of Leon still gets me every time and I actually can't unhear the wrong counting, only by the time we're in the chorus
Razz - KOL is off the same album and also has a weird intro, very cool though
First thing I thought you'd mention btw was drive my car, but I believe you already touched on that in another video
In rainbows also has two cool ones
bodysnatchers - Radiohead
Videotape - Radiohead - this is really weird, there's a video essay out there about this - basically every chord is on the eighth note before the downbeat but it never really gets into that feel ...
Looking forward to the next video!
Beetlebum always got me until recently when someone told me it was on the 1, even now I need to retrain my brain it still doesn't sound natural!
Another big example of confusing intro is the instrumental “I Robot” From The Alan Parsons Project. It seems the synth starts on the downbeat, but when the drums comes in everything changes!
I am white. Went to a Historically Black College. Was the only caucasian in the University Choir. Had a blast. It is a common, and often very correct stereotype, that white people clap on 1 and 3. Black people clap on 2 and 4. The latter being correct.
Two different songs by The Cars - "Since You're Gone", and "Just What I Needed". I can usually latch on the second or third time around, but they always get me on the first listen, especially "Since You're Gone".
My personal favorite example of this is Behold by Joey Fehrenbach. The synth line that fades in at the beginning leads the rhythm, and even when the drums come in, they still feel like they're on the offbeat. I'm not even sure if it was intended or not, but the synth has such a strong presence that you can flip whether it or the drums are counting the 1 and it works either way.
I've always loved this effect. I'm not sure if you mentioned in your previous video, but I think I've heard a term for this in the past, either it's something like implied metric modulation, or rhythmic displacement, or metric displacement? Whatever it's called, it's a great trick!
Yeah as a drummer myself Car Wash doesn't throw me, I immediately think of claps on the 2 & 4. When the kick comes in layered with it, I hear that as that kind of reggae style rhythm where kick is often on the upbeat too.
This is one of my favourite arrangement tricks. It's harder than it seems to incorporate it into your own song.
The absolute best example of this I've heard in years is Time & Place by Queens of the Stoneage from the latest album.
Enjoyed David!! Next installment please!!
Gratitude by Oingo Boingo. The synth woodwind intro sounds normal but when it comes back in later it shows that it’s a half beat late
Learned so much from you again. Hooktheory is really helpful too
A song intro that always tripped me up was Introducing Palace Players by MEW. It really gives the feeling of being lost before the song finally starts.
Just what I needed
I love "This Is Your Life" by The Killers in this context. Always heard the voicing intro out of time.
Yes! Also “On TOP” by them. The synth riff sets up a pulse that totally fakes you out
hey, david. fantastic series. don't tread on me by metallica is a favorite that comes to mind. thank you for your consistently excellent content.
Here in Mexico 🇲🇽 the song with the "most confusing" intro 😅 for bar bands is 'sex on fire' by kings of lion... if drummers really knew how to count they would know that the 4th measure of the intro is played in 5 /4 and not in 4/4.
Another very confusing song that I would love for you to analyze is 'rabbit in your headlights' by UNKLE. A jewel!
Greetings David!
darn it, I listened to Verdis Quo so many times, that I did not notice the beat beating off, but it's a very instresting way to introduce a song to people and tbh before, this video I haven't even noticed this confusion even once.
Gary Brooker's "No More Fear of Flying" intro has a nice intro hiccup that always puts me on the wrong foot.
My favourite example of this is "Much against everyones advice" by Soulwax. Probably not well known, but definitely worth a listen
I love that one :)
Oooo not heard that for ages! Straight off to Spotify I go… thanks!
Love it. Great video. More please.
beetlebum is really cool since they have elements of both counts going at the same time. i think it's fair to say, for the first part, where the 1 is, the correct answer is "yes" by "split vote". only on verse two is the vote tiebroken
Lonely Boy by Andrew Gold is an example. I love when songs do this. It’s like a little musical prank on the listener that I always find amusing.
Beetlebum definitely! I even thought that slide is not on a beat - but it actually is. So, funny enough, the first strong sound (the slide, which is actually even more clear in the original) is really the first. And the singing/phrasing does help at all.
Here's a very obscure (and very subtle) example of a song with a confusing intro: "Black Rose", from the cult GameCube psychological horror game _Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem._
The intro is sparse, consisting of four bells tolls, each two measures apart, and ambient rain and thunder sounds. Once the guitar and synths start coming in, you (might) realize that not only are the bells _not_ sounding on the downbeat, they're a _sixteenth note_ before beat 2 (the "a" in "one-ee-and-a").
thx for finally clearing up beatle bum in my head
one of the songs that had an intro that confused me the first time I heard it recently is gardenia by Kyuss
Another confusing one is the beginning of the song "Lights Out" by Royal Blood.
It's difficult to directly feel the pulse when you're listening to the song and not playing it. The idea is simple, just constant sixteenth notes with a rest on beats 1 and 3.
Mike Kerr even pick the first note of the pattern with a downstroke when it would be more comfortable to start with an upstroke!
Yep that's another great shout, that one has always stumped me
"Veridis Quo" is used as opening to the swedish TV-series Supersnälla Silver-Sara & Stål-Henrik!
Thank you.
I was sure the daft punk one was gonna be Voyager ^^ it has the same anticipated chord pattern. I listen to this album hundreds of times so I actually got quite surprised when you counted the beat on that!
I went and listened to all of these before watching the video, just to get an unbiased first impression of the timing. Only one i actually heard the correct way immediately was "Beetlebum"
I've got two from Traffic - Tragic Magic (on Shootout At the Fantasy Factory) has a percussion lead-in that'll throw you *two* beats, and Light Up or Leave Me Alone (from The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys) has that, but with a lead electric guitar, where a certain bridge is 6/4 rather than 4/4 - you'll hear it. Also - for interesting use of the off beat, go listen to the title track of that latter album - and ditto with Rock and Roll Stew, you'll hear an off-beat clap in certain parts of each song.
In the Meantime by space hog is like this. The loop that opens the song sounds like it has a pickup, but its actually on the beat. And you can't tell until the band comes in.
No matter how many times I hear that song it always sounds off.
the guitar intro of "southern part of texas" by the "War" drives me crazy!! 😂
Im sure there aren't many KISS fans here, but the intro to Christine Sixteen always throws me a curve.
Take it easy by The Eagles starts on 4&, but the drum fill after the first chords is leading so smoothly into the full instrumentation that it is barely noticeable if you are not counting along.
Another great example is "The Red Baron" by Sabaton, or "No More Tears" By Ozzy Osbourne
Damn you beat me to it on "No More Tears." If we're going hair metal (sort of), what about "Kickstart My Heart"?
Cardiac Arrest by Madness is a nightmare to count. Good luck
A song that I find has a confusing intro is Walking in Memphis by Marc Cohn. At first, it seems like there is a chord change on every 1st and 3rd beat (with the first chord of the song starting on the 1 &). But once we get to the chorus, to me at least, where the downbeat falls starts to become ambiguous, and once the drums enter, it becomes apparent that the chord changes actually happen on the 2 & and 4 &.
Van Halen Panama is another one. It's so weird, I think even the band themselves didn't know how it went, because the riff and the beat change on the second time around.
Yes and it has drums from the start which makes it even more confusing
Another example: "The Impression That I Get" by The Mighty Mighty Bosstones
The intro is guitar-driven and misleads you into thinking it's not syncopated, with a little tom-crash on drums and the first bit of bass also being on the accent; even the sax line doesn't foreshadow the actual 1 until the full arrangement kicks in. The actual first played note of the song is the only clue in the intro for where the 1 is, but is easily overlooked in place of the accents.
Funny, I’ve never heard Veridis Quo the way that David is counting it out. I always hear it with the beat placed as intended by the band
On the last one I felt the right beat, on the Car Wash one I felt the wrong beat. Cool stuff.
“Introducing Palace Players” by Mew. Intro is a total mindf**k
I feel the right beat on Veridis Quo from the beginning, but I'm sure that's just because I've heard the song so many times, I can't imagine the drums coming in any other way.
I’m the same way with Car Wash. Once you have heard enough of the beginning and especially the guitar high note “and” it’s easy to hear that from the start.
Two things from a drummer's point of view:
--Drum fills in popular music almost always push the upbeat, often starting on an "and" or the 16th before the downbeat...but drum fills almost always end on a main beat.
--Malinke (West African) traditional rhythms often begin their cycle before a downbeat, with what western drummers call a "pickup".
This kind of syncopation adds to the sense of double-time in the music.
Queens of the Stone Age - Song for the Dead is such a satisfying one with the guitar and drums interplay. I consider myself a medium-trained musician, but at some point it gets almost impossible for me to keep counting.
I've always felt a weird jolt when the drums of Beetlebum kick in, and that explains why 😁
Meshuggah - Combustion
Starts with a straight forward 4/4 riff and an off-beat hi-hat count in. If you shift the first note by an 8th, the hats land on beat.
You can count the song either way, from start to finish.
Canonball by the Breeders and There She Goes by the La's also have confusing intros in which they change our perception on how we hear the drums
You should cover those as well!
The intro to "Right Now" by Van Halen is quite something. It took me a while to train my brain to feel the correct beat there.
Bowie was always pushing himself and is a great example for musicians/songwriters everywhere. It’s why Bowie was even better than he thought he was ala “Ashes to Ashes”. Although we all know there was a bit of winking going on when he says “I’ve never done good things”. He always pushed himself to find new sounds and fresh ways to make music. We are forever grateful.
BTW I dig your new mode album. Nice!
Beetlebum is such a great example! I always try to play along with the song and I get confused lol
The guitar riff oh Shallow by Porcupine Tree seems to start on 4 but it's actually the 1 and it's clear when the drums kick in.
We Are by Karnivool is confusing because it's a 3:4 polyrhythm and it soundss like it starts on the offbeat of 3 but it actually starts on the downbeat of 1 and it's 4/4. The floor tom and snare pattern make the polyrhythm stand out, but the song it's actually in 4/4
Probably most famous is Watermelon Man by Herbie Hancock (but I think you did a video on that) and a beautiful song that does this is ‘Earth Song/Turn the World Around’ by Harry Belafonte that’s best when done with the Muppets.
Oh Baby and Home by LCD Soundsystem pull this trick too. You get so into the sequencing of the synths and percussion that when the drums come in you’re a bit lost for a minute, especially as you’re probably having a bit of a boogie.
0:55 I actually caught the David Bowie one 😁 the place the guitar came in immediately told me the pulses couldn't be the downbeats
Saw daft punk in the thumbnail and assumed you were covering the intro to “Give Life Back To Music”. That one always confused me until I realized the actual pulse
First time I've felt the right beat right in one of these, the blur track felt really wrong the way you initially counted it. Subjective indeed
I love blur 🙌🏻
ive always heard Beetlebum as if the slide happens on the downbeat, the way you counted it and the way you heard it sounded really off to me, its weird how it's different for everyone lol
Playing guitar and drums, I'd have to agree. I would never have imagined it in David's way in a million years. Very wacky indeed
Another example of a song with a confusing intro (at least for me anyway) is Locust by Machine Head. It starts right on beat 1, but I always hear it as if it were on the and of 4.
Locust is an awesome song.
oh mannnn, veridis quo gets me EVERY time
One of my favourite examples of this is You’re So Cool by Jonathan Bree
‘Bom feeling’ by Sara Tavares led to entire discussions on where the one is between me and my musician mates. The effect extends quite a bit into the song as well.
The Rasmus - In the Shadows intro also misleads you as a listener, thinking that this alarm sound is on the place that the kick normally plays, while it's on the place of the snare drum
Every time you do one of these videos I can't stop thinking of Cowboys From Hell by Pantera.
My favorite example of this is Jethro Tull's Rainbow blues. It isn't really about misplacing the downbeat like most of the examples in these videos. I count it in 12 with some pick up notes. After the intro it just go straight to 4/4.