The Myth of the Nazi Police State - WW2 Documentary Special
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- Опубліковано 26 гру 2022
- The popular image of the Gestapo is as black leather-jacketed fiends whose spies keep the nation under constant surveillance. They are so powerful that the terrified population has no choice but to sell out its family and friends. But how true is this? Are all Germans living in fear of the Gestapo all the time?
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Hosted by: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson
Creative Producer: Marek Kamiński
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Written by: James Newman
Research by: James Newman
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Sound design by: Marek Kamiński
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Of course, the Third Reich possesses means of enforcing its will beyond the Gestapo. In their totalitarian state, Hitler and the Nazis can pull on almost every aspect of the state and society as a lever of coercion and control. Nonetheless while producing this episode, we were quite shocked to discover how little most Germans fear the secret police. In one postwar survey conducted in Cologne, over 50% of people will admit to having broken Nazi laws. Nonetheless, 75% will state that they had never been afraid of arrest or punishment. This got us thinking, for those of you who live in countries with a secret police force, how much do you fear them?
So, as you may know, Portugal was under an authoritarian regime until 1974. My grandma has an anedocte: she listenned to BBC radio, but it was illegal to do so, so she and the family huddled over the radio in the evening, at a very low volume, listening in silence, with all lights out. "Just in case of there being a [political police officer] passing outside.", she always says.
When the 1974 coup happened, the people took to the streets to celebrate even with some stuff still unfolding.
Make of that what you will, but it sounds to me the threat of omnipresence was used to great effect by the regime.
Speaking about Russia
Depending on what kind of thing you are doing. There is general understanding that secret (and overt) police cares a lot about anything "publically political" like a demonstration or one man picket, but wouldn't care much about personal communication if you are just a common citizen. Like in Soviet (post stalin) times, where it was okay to talk about everything in your kitchen, but not on any public gathering. Nothing like "Children tell on parents who said something bad about the government". Sometimes some people are made examples of by actually using repressive laws, but, for example, there are only 28 people who were convicted of "sentence for reposts [of politically dissenting information]", in a country of 140 million people.
During Stalin times, however, it was very much totalitarian control, in big cities at least. People kept their mouths shut even when talking to their relatives, co-workers and friends. Snitching was very common, in part because not snitching in time on someone who was later arrested would mark you as co-conspirator. And snitching was used by people to remove their rivals.
While it may not be well known, Canada has been using secret police tactics to freeze the bank accounts, take away children, imprison, restrict travel and harass dissenters. This happened especially with the "Freedom Convoy" protesters and others who have spoken up either in person or online. Public Safety Canada is an organization that oversees and the intelligence and police organizations in Canada and liases with those of other countries. They're sort of analogous to American Homeland security. The liberal party has allied with the new democratic party (NDP) to put a stranglehold on Canadian politics. There have been multiple scandals where they've broken laws, abused their self appointed covid powers to push legislation through without a vote, and are now seeking to police speech and the internet that Canadian people can see. The media is state funded for the most part and doesn't want to lose that funding by speaking out against the current government. You might not hear much about what's going on because of that media situation, but things are getting bad.
It reminds me of the Portuguese PIDE, my grandfather lived most of his life under the Fascist Estado Novo. When asked how people dealt with the secret police, he says that one has to be quite a "loud" dissenter to attract their attention. Sadly, people used it as a tool to denounce and settle scores at times.
Thanks for this. I have heard it said that in the modern world with all the cameras and little supercomputers _we pay_ to have track us (cell phones) modern free countries are more policed than Nazi Germany. If they had all of this tech they would've done what China is doing to the Uighurs.
I've heard of another joke a comedian was disappeared for. "How do you tell the difference between an optimist and a pessimist? An optimist is learning English and a pessimist is learning Russian."
Some of the whisper jokes are quite funny, though the trouble one could land in for telling them was not.
My favorite...
"Hitler and his chauffeur take a drive in the countryside. All of a sudden, boom! They drive over a chicken. Hitler tells the chauffeur, “We have to tell the farmer. Let me do it. I’m the Fuehrer, he’ll understand.” After two minutes, Hitler runs back holding his backside - the farmer had given him a thrashing. The two drive on. Again, boom! They run into a pig. Hitler barks, “You go to the farmer this time!” The chauffeur follows his orders but comes back a half an hour later, falling-down drunk with a basket filled with sausages and presents. Hitler is stunned. “What did you tell the farmer?” And the chauffeur says, “I just said, ‘Heil Hitler, the pig is dead!’ and they gave me these gifts!”
Or the short but sweet, "My, how time flies! A thousand years, gone already..."
😄
And they say Germans don't have humor
@@georgekosko5124 The Second World War kicked a lot of it out of them.
@@georgekosko5124
Do they?
an old German guy lived near us after the war. He told my dad "Everyone was on board. Very few had to be convinced."
That sounds exactly like an individual anecdotal opinion. It reminds me vividly and closely of the American left. The youthful American left, which I used to be a part of-exactly. But I can also see how aspects of nazism and the belief or Fervor for a destructive ideology, or any ideology can be embraced generally as a culture/nation due to the positive and flashy and perceived success fraught of any ideology while ignoring or hiding or not knowing the horrors of the negative aspects.
We see this commonly in MOST modern nations today. Most of Europe, Canada, the US, UK, Australia, China, Japan….. not to say other countries have issues, but the western world has fully embraced authoritarianism themselves with a corporate-technocratic flavor. Not to say eastern and other nations are equally or worse off….
Not to point anyone towards any political flavor in the United States where I’m from, but I come from the left side of politics growing up. I’m 26 now.
Both political parties, but especially the Democratic Party and the propagandized voters it entraps-employ tactics straight from Geobels (and others) himself.
Please pay attention.
The Time Ghost Army is doing humanity and the west most importantly, a great service for regurgitating the true knowledge of the past.
Please keep paying attention everyone.
I am also not making a call to action. Political ideologies is something I never recommend. In order to expose corruption and injustice I believe taking a side (and especially encouraging) is limiting to individuals and opinion.
@@christopherkucia1071 Just incase anyone happens across this "enlightened centrist"; This is how fascists try to convince you that the party opposed to fascism is actually fascist. In other words, an Anti-Antifa. Or... you know ;)
@@christopherkucia1071 thanks for the wall of text trying to discount my and this person's lived experience and the overwhelming evidence from the past. Maybe when you're older than 26 you'll understand how pretentious and condescending your comment sounds, and how unconvincing your both-sides bullshit about "the left" is when it's obvious you and nobody you know has actually ever been a leftist, because of the ingrained hatred of fascism and disdain for mealy-mouthed centrists like yourself that should be present but is not. Or you won't . I don't really care. You're the one who has to live with you.
@@j.langer5949 on board for the slaughter? question your humanity, these people are on board on the promise and hope, they could care less about the genocidal aspects as long as it swept the past
The thing is someone COULD inform to the Gestapo. People just kept their mouths shut. It was probably more of a psychological campaign. It’s the “We know everything, and are everywhere,” even when they weren’t.
Challenging these firm and established myths is the best part of the series
@@shimagaijin4552 Gina said the Gestapo are actually the good guys, got canceled, turning incels into the good guys?
That's what you people call reality?
The fuck both of you talking about?
Getting into...cancelable territory there potentially
@@F_ckAllTrumpVoters So, that is the reality for you? Gina never said the Gestapo were the good guys.
If you have to lie to justify your position, then it proves you are the one who is wrong.
Also, these Leftiest insists Nazis were the extreme right wing, when in reality, Nazis were the Left.
Their name says so, National Socialist. They were Socialist, ie Left Wing. NOT conservative.
@@F_ckAllTrumpVoters she didn’t Retard, if she accused liberals (whom she opposes of being the Gestapo) why would she think they’re the good guys?
We like to tell ourselves "well I would be a member of the resistance" if we were living in that kind of time and place
The terrible truth is that most of us wouldn't. We'd do our best to survive, to protect ourselves and our families
To do good and fight back in small, safe ways
The idea of an omnipresent secret police is a story that makes us feel better for knowing that in the back of our minds.
It's interesting that of those who actively endangered themselves by harbouring jews a great many would be considered zealots and unreasonably strongminded in most circumstances, those who took such a risk can largely be split in three, those with personal relationships to those they protected, fanatical ideologues (usually leftist) and devout Christians, this is perhaps unsurprising consider that it was a role in which someone had to be willing to die for their principals, being possessed by ideology kind of already means you are that, helping out those you have connections to is basic humanity and Christians could be sure that the price for not helping was far heavier than death. The only one that most people can look towards is helping out those you know, an ideologue can resist one inhumanity and actively take part in another and most people these days aren't Christian even if the value set they find the most convenient tends to be delineated from it, but as with any convenience it tends to be thrown overboard at the first sign of trouble.
@@vorynrosethorn903 "Moderate rebel is a contradiction in terms"
There's no shame in that situation of doing your best to help the people you CAN help.
But most people can't live with a sten gun under the floorboards.
@@noName-kn1lx You're right. I can't. I've lived in a strong democracy my entire life, for all the US' flaws I can at least say that.
Like I said, it's not a judgement, there's no shame in living to SURVIVE whatever dictatorship is out to get you. Help the people you can help, tell the story, preserve your culture.
Wars are not one on bloody rebellion alone
@@killdizzle Rebellion is, in and of itself, by definition, radical action. Going out with the intention to kill others, even if your politics are correct, is a radical action
@@vorynrosethorn903 Even more interesting to extend the parallel to these times. Now it's not the leftist but the right (and zealots/Christians) who often actively oppose oppression, censorship and government overreach.
They didn't use the Gestapo to keep people in line, they used the myth of the Gestapo.
@@spartacus-olsson numbers don't give context, and knowing what happens to those that are deemed undesirable to the state is hardly a situation for accurate self reporting of affiliations. It's easy to be unafraid of a group that you'd be terrified to oppose haha.
The Gestapo keep people in line. Even if the risk is low would you take it? Especially since they were very visible. You would’ve seen them on public transports and likely knew of someone they at least had pulled for questioning. Statistically the average Soviet citizen had nothing to do with the KGB either and the Gestapo was more conspicuous.
@@j.langer5949 Who said every were, not I. The point is they were visible and in public. You would have seen them and knew it. That’s the point of those conspicuous hats and leather coats. Secondly the Nazis never had the majority support in Germany, look at election results, in for example in Berlin they didn’t even get 1000 votes. They came in to power with pressure from big businesses on Hindenburg, followed by a coup d’état
There’s many myths, but the fear of the Gestapo isn’t one.
Yeah, it’s similar to how traffic police work, they alters behaviour even if not present, of course far more Draconian and sinister.
@@j.langer5949 I don’t think I know they never had majority support! They had support especially in the middle class and rural areas particularly farmers, school teachers, police and doctors and businesses owners small and big. In the industrial centres and big cities they almost had none.
For examples in Essen after some years of the war, you couldn’t go out in party uniform after dark, because of working class youth gangs wisely stabbing the pigs to death.
Gestapo was not only in Germany but MAINLY "worked" in occupied countries. In Czechoslovakia they were very "productive" bastards. Severe punishments and regular death penalties were very common here. In Prague Gestapo office was frequently requesting more resources because a lot of people were bringing info and giving up others. They simply had huge number of acive collaborants. You don't need extensive staff when you manage to seed enough fear.
Gestapo and many other parts of the german occupational administration are understaffed. A lot of plain heer units are used in anti-partisan roles as well. The heer standing apart from the ostfront awfulness is a myth.
The motivations of collaborators seems mixed. It can be ideological, they just go to the local fascist party. Collaborators might get first dibs on the now empty homes and properties of people and some protection as they boss people around. The collaborators might have some other goal and hope Germany will help them there.
Didn't Geheime Staats refer to the occupied countries rather than the homeland?
@@SusCalvin Many of these units were ukranian police or paramilitary 🇺🇦...therefore the connection with Stepán Bandera 🏴...
Not fear. The Gestapo was popular among Germans. What they did to people was often prompted by "concerned" German citizens. Often it would be locals who would turn in some person for being Jewish, or "anti-social," or just someone they didn't like, and they would pester the Gestapo until they got rid of that person.
As for Poland, it was mainly the Bolsheviks and the NKVD who prompted their National Socialist collaborators and helped teach them how to conduct proper genocides. The NKVD formally met with the Gestapo on at least four separate occasions to this end, the most famous of these conferences taking place at the luxury resort town of Zakopane. Here the extermination of the Polish intellectual elite was planned.
@@exit5620 By 1940, all the Jews who had helped the Bolsheviks into power were dead, most of them executed by the Bolsheviks.
It's the fear and uncertainty that drives the system. You never know who might be listening, even when no one usually is.
Unfortunately, that has changed with proto-AI doing the listening, screening and flagging, mostly for corporate masters and advertisement revenue, but you can be sure that if a neonazi or even just a fascist movement like the MAGA came to total political power anywhere, they will be paying or strong arming social media companies to hand over thecriteria control of their metadata collection and user content post monitoring algorithms.
From what I've heard here the German populace wasn't all that scared.. Have you watched the vid? The trick is that the Tyrant's foot was not on there necks, but the 'unwanted'.
The cointelpro tactics
@@Wayoutthere they conveniently ignored that anyone that tried to speak up or organize already got arrested and sent to concentration camps even before the war, together with undesirables. And anyone else organizing would also get arrested, and you would not even know who you could say to anything like this, because anyone could report you, and the bigger organization becomes, the danger of getting snitched at grows exponentially.
@@Wayoutthere You could live in Franco's Spain or Pinochet's Chile and have a fairly normal life.
For my BA Thesis, I did a comparative case analysis based on Robert Gellately's work on the Gestapo (and less relevant right now: trying to apply it to the Stasi case). I was honestly surprised by the things I learned, and it's another reminder that all of us are capable of doing what some of the German population did during that time.
Nope. Speak for yourself sport.
Unfortunately you are right. People who think they would be a rebel don't have a moral strength they think they have. Many of those executed were strong Christians. If you don't have some moral belief (beyond humanism or free thinker) you will go along to get along.
extremely interesting, what grade did you get?
@@jamesdoyle5405Christian’s?If you want to make this about religion.The majority of Nazis were Christian’s,95% of Germany was Christian in fact.The SS did not allow atheist to join its ranks and their belts read “God is with us” .In fact there was only one Christian sect persecuted particularly by the Nazis the JW who are a strange small sect to say the least.The reason was not their Christianity but instead their refusal to be patriotic or join the war effort.If anything the vast majority of the groups persecuted by the Nazis were non Christian’s ,the jews ,and communist.The Jews in their entire history in Europe had been persecuted because of religion.The anti semetism of Europe did not arise in the 18th century-20th with humanism it started in the Middle Ages with religious intolerance and the idea of the jews as god killers.In fact the end of anti semetic laws in Europe coincides with humanism and liberalism in Europe.The French Revolution was the first liberal revolution in Europe which destroyed the union between church and state and finally gave jews equal citizenship.In the US there has never been a systematic persecution of Jews because there has never been a systematic imposition of any state religion of Christianity.The Nazis and other far right movements in Germany were in part a reactionary response from Protestants to the end of the kulterkamft which had favored them during the empire .One interesting thing is that Germany from 1910-1933 was seeing a massive fall in people identifying as Christians this slowed down massively after the Nazis took over.In part because they ended all atheist organizations and groups promoting humanism.The other group mostly targeted politically was the communist and we don’t even have to explain communist specially during this period were hardcore atheist.
@Mauricio Take a look at groups like the White Rose. I am not talking about nominal Christians but people who actually lived their religion.
I read the book Gestapo : sanning och myt om Tredje rikets hemliga polis by Frank McDonough and was surprised. People were giving up colleagues, neighbours and relatives but often, according to the book, Gestapo dropped the charges much because the crimes were considered petty.
Well they had to prioritize some cases over others
A similar situation took place in my country in 2010s but with tax evasion
The tax authorities was like let's try to catch the big ones - the petty cases don't worth the effort and resources 😉
I forget where I read it, Richard Evans maybe but, the Gestapo themselves estimate 40% of political crimes reported to them were false.
Sort of like theft being legal in San Francisco.
@@rogersmith7396 is that because there is nothing worth stealing 🤔😊
@@Zed1776 Sparty and Astrid just highlighted some cases of minor offenses that lead to a death sentence, but as I recall it on many occassions the outcome of case was a bit random. Some people were sent to prison for a few years for a political joke other got briefly interviewed for definitely talking too much and the case closed and dropped as the defendent was drunk and had had a bad day at work.
I also recall that Gestapo was very thorough when writing their reports and hadn't many of their offices been blown to pieces during the war, historians would have been in heaven diving through miles of files.
But still that doesn't make Gestapo into Red Cross.
The Thumbnail picture used for the video is " chefs kiss "
Poor Stephen merchant 😂
It made me click lol
We were just "Heil Hitlering" the boy, and then "Heil Hitlering" yourself, and then, of course, "Heil Hitlering" Freddy Finkel.
You guys just keep knocking it out of the park! This sub-series is always a must watch. So little general knowledge on the subject is out there, yet you dive so deep into the particulars. Fascinating seems too ordinary a comment. I consider myself enlightened.
Thanks for your kind words!
I recall an interview of a German lady after the Wall had come down. Unknown to her the interviewer had accessed the Stasi archives and found a letter from her teenage self denouncing the lady next door to the Gestapo in the 30's. The interview ended abruptly when he produced a copy of the letter. The denounced lady had been partying dressed in tuxedos, she was arrested several times and died in prison.
While Gestapo an NKVD were different animals, it is clear for me that NKVD had more members in absolute terms and in % of total population. Could you do a Video stating how NKVD organization worked in WW2, and before?
The thing is that the NKVD was the Soviet equivalent to a Ministry of the Interior. It included both the "secret" police (the counterespionage division), but also railroad security, border guards, police, prisions (GULag labor camps) and those things. During wartime they even organised militias that fought alongside the Red Army in battles like Moscow or Stalingrad, though they weren't very combat effective (and were mostly useful for constructing field fortifications) as they didn't have much equipment (basically they used whatever they could get their hands on). In 1941, a NKVD border guards unit performed what was the weirdest battle of the war: it was a battalion-sized unit of 500 men and 150 trained police dogs and they charged on the Germans to open a small gap during the battle of Uman, allowing other units to escape the pincer.
NKVD and their later successors in the Soviet Union have an organisational quirk where they are in charge of border units. In practice, countercoup and uprising suppression units. I think those added a lot of manpower to the organisation.
@@podemosurss8316 My impression of these internal/border troops later on during the Cold War is that their role was suppressing riots and functioning as coup defence units.
@Meme Memeson Not just them, the border troops remained under ministry of the interior control in many of the soviet states.
@Meme Memeson Himmler starts to build it like a personal power base, I think. Sometimes they do stuff just as a part of the power arrangements between NSDAP guys.
Good video, these types of things are important for people to see and understand. Myths always get built up through the media and those who never dig into the stories deeper.
Reading a biography of Himler a funny thing that struck me was that in the late 30s himler gave a speech to the Gestapo about how they had to endeavor to be seen by ordinary Germans as not scary but rather a service institution to help them - was funny as the language was almost the same used here in Denmark when they reformed the Danish tax authorities to be more service orientated and less about control
The everyday oppression did work through many ways beside the Gestapo. My grandfather was a civil servant in the air force ministry. When during a large meeting the information was brought in, that the USA had declared war, the senior officer remarked "that was it". Many nodded, but no one dared any discussion on that topic.
My grandfather uncautiosly mentioned that to his sister, who went straight to the Gauleiter (Nazi party official with sometimes great influence). By pulling strings with friends in the military, the Gauleiter was forced to ignore that remark, which saved my grandfather. He was convinced, that he narrowly missed execution.
"... it shows once again the seductive danger of totalitarian politics and
the horrors that ordinary people are prepared to accept in their name."
Beautiful quote
I find it interesting that the Kempeitai or the NKVD were a lot more effective, informed and ruthless than the Gestapo towards the regular civilian population.
A very interesting Special here, I learnt something new here today and some surprises too about the realities of the Gestapo as well. This is one of the reasons why we support the World War Two team as members of the TimeGhost Army!
Thanks for watching and for your support as a member of the army! We really appreciate it.
A wonderful and valuable perspective into a sticky and self hidden part of history from both sides for opposite reasons. Well done.
I guess you can say that radio tower one really was… a killer joke
Ohhhh we see what you did there
I knew Spartacus facial hair would win Astrid's heart eventually.
No woman can resist a man named Sparticus.
this episode is very good...this is what its like living in china...nothing is a problem until its a problem
no joke, i'm here right now
I'm here right now too!
How's your social credit looking?
For the gestapo, I always think of Her Flick from "'Ello 'ello", with Hilda always getting together with him.
It amuses me too, but it wasn't really that funny. On the contrary. Humor allows you to forget about many atrocities. It's so funny it's absurd. I agree that it shows the absurdity and madness of this murderous system.
My favourite gag was when he answered the phone: "Flick the Gestapo? ... No, I said FLICK the Gestapo" 😄
First episode with Astrid I could watch. I believe Spartacus calm way of talking also slows her down and makes her voice less shrill and grating, even though there are still a few cases where it hurts my ears. Keep pairing her with him
It is great to have you presenting together, thank you very much.
Glad you enjoyed the episode, thanks a lot for watching!
Thanks for your research and presentation.
As ever, very interesting episode and really good to see the media and Hollywood myths being deconstructed so we get a clearer appreciation of what was actually happening. Thanks.
Always a pleasure to see Astrid and Sparty side by side doing a collab video! Keep it up :)
Hi Sparty and Astrid
Great video.
Clearing myth about gestapo.
Thanks.
All your content is amazing. Keep up the good work.🌹
...yet this may be read as effective control. After all, it appears people knew the boundaries of what they could and could not get away with; step over a particular line and you might become an example on the end of a rope. Thus, many would "self-police" and limit their actions
Exactly, you don't have to convince everyone all of the time that they are being watched or that they would be punished for every crime. Just that they can't KNOW when they are being watched, and that they WILL be punished for breaking certain crimes.
As we now do in the west
Ah, the sweet present.
That's kind of what I was thinking. The fact that few "racially acceptable" Germans were targeted by the Gestapo doesn't mean that they weren't feared disproportionately to the actual threat they posed.
There's also the fact that the people who *did* actually join an underground resistance movement *were* in real danger, which has to be considered in assessing the fault of those Germans who didn't actively work against the Nazi regime. Just sayin'.
The fact that you could be executed for telling a joke is a more significant fact than how often it really happened to the common ethnic German.
This is very well thought out and presented, I can't believe youtube hasn't removed it yet.
Maybe they remove specific channels from whatever algorithm they run. This channel has been around for years, it's popular and educational. Maybe they review it differently
@@davidobriend8560 Yeah, UA-cam is basically the Chinese government when it comes to censorship. The rules are all made in secret and enforced arbitrarily. We will probably never know why UA-cam chooses to censor some historical channels and not others, because they're not going to tell us.
@@tomprice5496 your right. I have heard other history channels mention their educational stuff got taken down as well. And it was on one that I have seen enough videos to know that they would not be doing anything anyone could view was wrong. So on it, videos where he talked about topics ppl could argue were sensitive were not removed, but a video where he talked about famine in Greece during the war was. He said he couldn't even get an answer about it.
UA-cam is so... opaque about why videos are taken down it is often difficult to understand or do much about. Though World War Two and its series / spin offs are well established channels that provide history and educational type videos with tons of views, they have also had some videos taken down from time to time ( seemingly most often when discussing or showing the violence of atrocities ).
@@wills2140 Having a clearly defined code of rules would make youtube more responsible for it's actions, and give people legal and ethical footing to complain or even sue youtube. So of course they will never do that. It would be a legal and PR disaster for them. It's better to make up the rules in secret and then enforce them arbitrarily. That way, nobody knows why they are getting banned and they have no recourse. The Chinese government has been operating this way for decades.
Great episode! I love Spies and Ties and I love it when there's a jointing hosting so this was right up my alley.
Thank you very much for watching, Hannah! Really glad you enjoyed the episode.
Perfect duo and amazing topic.
This reminds me of a story about Hans Massaquoi, a half-black/half-German journalist who grew up during the Nazis' rise. According to Massaquoi while the Nazis were as racist towards blacks as they were to Jews they seem to save the worst actions for the Jews as the Nazis saw the Jews as the hidden power brokers while blacks were seen as useful idiots. After getting a machinist apprenticeship he was told by his mentor the Nazis hoped to regain Germany's old African colonies and plan to train a number of black Germans as future managers. Massaquoi did get detained by the SD, the SS's intel branch, for looking suspicious (ironically he had just dropped off his secret girlfriend, the daughter of an SS officer). The only thing that save him was a police officer-and father of one of his coworkers- vouch for him citing his apprenticeship.
My mother used to work with an immigrant from Romania. This woman explained to her that it wasn't so much secret police on every corner but scared, paranoid citizens turning in their neighbors to save themselves. She told her that if one needed to go out they would keep their heads down and not say a word to anyone out of fear of being 'disappeared' as so many others had been.
of course the romanians had their own secret police every bit as ruthless as the gestapo and they often worked together.
@@poil8351 this was during the Cold War under communist domination
@@hankw69 true but they also had various precursors during the 1930 and 40s under masrhal antonescu,
Communist Romania was the most surveiled populace in history. Even more so than contemporary NORK
@@dogfaceponysoldier i know they were bad but i think it might be a bit of stretch to say it was more than north korea which is seriously next level surveillance and the stasi were right up there.
Another great episode. Thank you.
Thank you for your support!
Great video you two :D
This is also most certainly true of Soviet Russia. The KGB certainly was very oppressive, but they did not have the 1984 scale of tracking every single person's actions and thoughts. It's unfeasible. Just as I am sure there are individuals critical of Communist China all over who will never be caught. Authoritarian regimes do not have the ability to oppress everybody all the time; however, they are always able to suppress just enough to prevent any sort of real resistance from developing.
At least with the little bit I've read about the KGB, it seems they tended to rely more on willful informants in the community more than actually being actively involved in policing it, as in they bribed, scared, or recruited people in the community as "spies" who would then report on their neighbors to the KGB if something suspicious was seen (or if said informant wanted the apartment down the hall that had 3 more square feet than theirs). I would imagine in Nazi Germany the Gestapo worked in a similar manner
It would depend on the time frame, I suppose. During Stalin´s reign, especially during the Great Terror, being in any way critical of the government could indeed get you killed or sent to the Gulag. With Stalin, this was exceptionally bad because of how unbelieveably paranoid he was. After Chruschev took over, things got a lot more relaxed, but it still wasn´t considered smart anywhere in the Eastern Block to openly criticize the Party outside the company of family and close friends. If nothing else, it could lead to problems at work or in school in case of students.
Another thing people forget is that Nazi Germany lasted for the grand total of 12 years, with only 6 years (during the war) being particularly radical. Communist dictatorships lasted for decades in many countries, so they had much more time to infiltrate the fabric of society. Who knows what the Gestapo would have turned into by the 1960s had the Nazis won the war.
The Nazis also, much like the capitalist nations, tended to focus the worst excesses of their oppression abroad rather than on their own people. The British and Dutch were comitting genocides in their colonies as late as the 1950s, but because it was happening out of sight, nobody really cared (and unfortunately, most people still don´t). The communist countries were generally much more heavy-handed against any form of internal opposition.
As for China, that is difficult to say. Their main limiting factor is no longer the capability to police their people, but their desire to maintain international economic relations. Even so, they have done their best to restrict their citizen´s access to independent sources of information, and to keep their citizenry on as tight a leash as they can get away with. They could turn things up a lot more if they really wanted to, but probably figured out that as long as people are not protesting in the streets, this kind of approach is simply not worth it.
@@jirkazalabak1514 ok that's fair, I guess I forgot about that
@@jirkazalabak1514 Yeah, to be fair I was talking about a person's experience with the KGB of the late 70s and early 80s. Stalin's era is way, way different as
@vorynrosethorn903 pointed out
The Stasi had 1 policeman for every 160 citizens. Including informants the Stasi had a 1-10 ratio. The Gestapo had a roughly 1-2000 ratio (similar to modern Western police force ratios). Don't try and pretend the KGB and their puppet police weren't an utterly pervasive and nightmarish force
I am a bit shocked that the German populace was in fact somewhat let free in listening to foreign radio, the prevalence of anti nazi/party/Hitler jokes and pretty much being critical of the course taken. In a hard brutal communist style regime, or worse, I would be more inclined to believe how easy it was for the Nazis to have there way with the country, and foreign countries. But it seems life was quite...comparable to today. This worries me and should worry everyone. Atrocities and looking away are in all of us (as long as the foot of the Tirant is on someone's else his neck). BigTech+BigGov now have tools that the Gestapo could only dream of.
There were no restriction. Germans travelled the world whenever they wanted.
@@exit5620 Wait what? So ordinary Germans could travel for example to Britain or USA without problem?
@@Mercurywheeler Yes, before the war. Hitler was on Time magazine. German people still had good relations with everyone, even the Zionist.
Most of what you hear about Ww2 is bullshit.
Fun fact: The Gestapo get rid of the black uniforms circa 1941. So what you're saying is that followers of Hitler--which was a majority of people--had nothing to worry. Interesting...
With Sparty around, I noticed "darlings" was a little more subdued....
I hope you all had a pleasant Christmas and are able to take some time off for the new year. Thank you for what you do.
My father, born in the Soviet Union spent time in the Gulag in northern Russia (ostensibly because of a joke he told a friend a joke about Stalin’s five year plans) experienced the NKVD and then the Gestapo. He came to Canada and then had contact with the security services run by the Canadian RCMP asking about others he knew both native born Canadians and immigrants from the Soviet Union. One day quite shocking to me as a Canadian, my father made the remark that the RCMP was worse than the Gestapo--you could tell who was the Gestapo since they wore uniforms but those working for the RCMP security services did not and were invisible.
My mother was a “guest worker” on a farm in Germany and while well treated by the farmer and his wife, she got beaten up by the Gestapo when they caught her when she snuck out to visit a friend working on a nearby farm. So the Gestapo was operating even in such rural settings.
you need to date these events, specify which year these things happened.
otherwise it is very confusing.
@@davidjacobs8558 gulag in mid-late 30s, Gestapo experience during WW2, came to Canada in 1952, and was approached by Canadian security services in 60s and 70s, always in a friendly manner. My mother was taken from central Ukraine to work in Germany starting mid 1942. She was an orphan, and a young teenager at the time. My parents met in Germany post WW2 and were married in France under a portrait of Stalin as the mayor marrying them was a French communist. Hi
It was hardly the only such agency. For example the less well-known SD or Sicherheitsdienst also played a significant role in surveillance and repression.
Thank you for the lesson.
5:43 got the whole room chuckling.
This is a critically important episode - exaggeration of how life under the Gestapo was is part of the "it could never happen here" mentality. The fact is, for the average passive citizen, life in Russia and China right now is probably the same. It's just not that hard to subdue a population.
People don't act without an understanding of the problem and the organisation and leadership to resist, this also means resistance has more to do with the dissemination of an issue than the reality of it. A the early Soviets found out (after people took up arms again when they started systematic genocides against them) people will fight if they know for sure they will die but so long as they have a sliver of hope they will dig their own grave.
Ironically pointing towards other foreign governments misdeeds, and not one’s own is another example of “it could never happen here” mentality. Given that the U.S. yearly kills and overly incarcerates a certain minority population, and those who do such a thing are lauded by the media as hero’s via tv show and political campaigns.
So is Twitter under Musk...
Russia maybe, but China definitely has perfect the mass surveillance systems
@@SonsOfLorgar Remind us again ...
What arrest powers does Musk have?
Where are the Twitter Concentration Camps?
It makes me laugh to hear unserious people pretend that if a person who owns a business won't let them do whatever they want IN THAT BUSINESS'S SPACE that its the same thing as being "oppressed".
Try again. Perhaps with some perspective .
You know it's going to be a great video when the Queen of F'ing Everything appears.
Quite Eye opening and informative!!
I challenge the premise. Every resident of Berlin during the Olympics statyed away from reporters out of fear.
It turns out that the communist secret police in post-war Poland (UB, later SB) had more informants than Gestapo. They actually did have at least one informant in every factory. Not to mention the Soviet Union, to which Churchill's description would very much fit.
The East German Stasi was bigger in absolute terms than the Gestapo despite ruling only a fraction of the territory. In relative terms it was many times larger, especially when its informants were counted.
@@IrishCarney It was the largest such force (proportionally) in the entire Eastern Block, right?
It only shows how oppressive communism is and what was the scale of terror that was used to subjugate the peoples of Central and Eastern Europe.
@@poiuyt975 We get it bro, you’ve been watching a lot of right wing propaganda on UA-cam and desperately want Trump to cum on your ass.
@@poiuyt975 Yeah the Nazi's were actually the good guys right?
@@poiuyt975 it'd very interesting to see them do a vid on them, a quoute about them to paraphrase goes something like "back in the east you could say anything about the boss but not the party, after the fall of the wall you could say anything about the party but not the boss"
Here's an east German about his life ua-cam.com/video/Oy8CrizjKh4/v-deo.html
Unlike the Spanish Inquisition, everyone expected the Gestapo
No literally everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition as they gave you a Notice.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 There are two things that everybody expects: the Gestapo, the Spanish Inquisition and the NKVD
@@forickgrimaldus8301 that’s the joke
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!: ua-cam.com/video/yKQ_sQKBASM/v-deo.html
@@forickgrimaldus8301
Joke
Your head
Whoosh.
Really goes to show how willing humans are to sell each other out in self interest. Never forget.
Sparty n Astrid hosting together was quite nice. And this video an informative look into how much the Gestapo affected the lives of normal Germans. I would love it if more people could see this video.
It would be great if you could do a video talking about the SD and how they differed from the Gestapo and how often the kinds of things they did and were responsible for were attributed to the Gestapo.
Excellent suggestion for a War Against Humanity video about the SD! The intended function of the SD was something like an intelligence service serving in foreign countries ( but of course in the usual Nazi fashion they were used in some different ways, over time ).
you don't have to convince everyone all of the time that they are being watched or that they would be punished for every crime. Just that they can't KNOW when they are being watched, and that they WILL be punished for breaking certain crimes. Then they will do the policing for you in their heads, "do I really want to do this? they can be watching me right now."
Not really, The German populace knew all the attention was not on them perse, but the 'unwanted'. As long as the schoolyard bully is occupying himself with others, you're fine (and allow yourself to look away).
@@spartacus-olsson Wow I didn't expect that you would take an interest in my comment Spartacus. I know enough to know that I am not an expert on the topic, I am not disputing that the average German supported the Nazis. I am clearly not knowledgeable enough to make that assertion. 1/
@@spartacus-olsson I was really trying to think of why the 20% didn't do more, to try to understand why good people would do nothing. Maybe I am wrong and trying to fit my view of humanities goodness with the hasher realities of the Reich. Actually that may be an interesting topic. The differences between passive support of a horrific regime and active participation in it. How many Germans approved of the Nazis crimes, how many knew and just didn't care, and how many just didn't know. I may be depressed to know the truth of the matter but could be important to know. 2/
So what you're saying is that the Gestapo were pretty lame compared to the NKVD (or the post-war STASI)...
Great video!
great ep! love Astrid's tie and hat
I just want Astrid to tell me any history lesson
Great episode that lifts the veil on the Gestapo and their relationship with the ordinary German citizen. I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
This helps explain why my maternal Oma told me they were given a warning by the gestapo once for some violation but nothing more.
This is an excellent series.
I wonder how honest people would be in a post-war poll though. I would think that shortly after the war, people would be unsure about how those loyal to the regime were to be treated. Longer after, I would think self-honesty regarding any level of duplicity with such an evil regime would be difficult for many to acknowledge once the full extent of their crimes were revealed.
Am not surprised at all, I mean they didn't need to " have people everywhere" since neighbors, friends and family can do their work for them
It's really a fairly common phenomenon that police authorities are using to their advantage - especially in authoritarian regimes
That's why in my country we say that :
You should never tell anyone about something that can put you in jail
Especially your girlfriend!! ( or boyfriend)
That is true everywhere.
Its interesting, I was called for Jury duty recently, there was one Russian woman there who was dismissed during voir dire because she wasn't OK with convicting someone on witness testimony alone without other evidence. She'd probably have been dismissed anyway for other reasons, but it was interesting that the word she used wasn't testimony - it was denunciation. I can definitely see why someone who grew up in the USSR wouldn't be comfortable with that. Bit different when its a jury of 12 ordinary citizens who must agree and review the evidence and case together, but I can definitely see why she wouldn't accept that.
Its also why you get the somewhat bizarre situation in authoritarian countries of criminals being able to get away with astonishingly awful crimes because there is a culture of silence/mistrust of authorities as well as corruption.
@@throwback19841 the last part can been seen also in places that used to be under imperial control
For example the Balkans, during the ottoman times even the architecture was influenced by the distrust for the authorities, no front yard instead the free space is in the middle with the outside walls hiding what is inside, communities living in ravines ect
In my country's we went through the ottoman era to a series of wars - and everything that comes with it, to triple occupation,
To a very dirty civil war, to a very Latin American style military junta..
It's only natural for people not to trust authorities and keep their mouth shut, because you never know how will end
I had worked as a security guard for a super market once
The first time we caught a thief and bought him to the manager
The standard process theoretically was to call the police
Instead the manager made the thief pay for what he stolen
Later explained to me that even if he didn't had the money to pay still he wouldn't call the police
Because it would eventually and up in a court room as witness for a petty crime, even if the thief was punished no one can quarantee that the thief wouldn't come back for payback..
Thank you, I enjoyed this video. Now subscribed
Great video
This is especially useful, even compared to the usual videos from WAH and S&Ts. One thing I wondered about, is the effect of passing draconian laws that are broken by a large percentage of the population, but are only rarely enforced. My guess is that a situation like this is very handy for authoritarian governments, because anyone of interest to those governments can be demonstrated to be a criminal with minimal effort. But with the tiny number of Gestapo personnel cited in this video, I suppose this would not apply to Nazi Germany?
The russian system was that the state should always have the option to come down hard on someone, if you were unlucky or did something that called its attention to you.
You may have noticed how american nationals get pulled over for misdemeanors and suddenly the heaviest possible force of law hits them. That's the russian state exercising its option to use those laws.
Good topic! Very interesting. Can you make a comparison between the Gestapo and the Stasi?
This channel is so good and informative.
Thank you for watching. We're glad you're enjoying our content. Grateful for your support!
Thank you!
So you're saying there wasn't an issue with Gestapo, unless you happen to be a member of the 40,000 executed. 🤔
People often live fairly normal personal lives in dictatorships. The NSDAP makes it easy for people who need an excuse to look away.
They don't even force you in the heer units, they just remove any sort of consequences if you do. What units did was sometimes down to individual field commanders.
Ah, wartime jokes! Like the one about Putin visiting a fortune teller, asking her if she can see his future. Yes I can, she says. You are in a car, driving along the streets of Moscow. And all the people are waving, and cheering, and laughing with joy. Good, good, says Putin. Do I wave back? No, the fortune teller says. The casket is closed.
WHAT??? Now that was totally unexpected, and very interesting, thanks.
Great Job. I got a hearty Kek from the "Hitler and Goering on the Tower" joke. RIP to the joke teller though.
An excellent video as usual. I do wonder how much of the answers to these post-war surveys may have been affected by the allied victory, with compliant Germans wanting to seem more rebellious.
By then, the German populace in the major cities were probably just relieved they didn’t have to live half the night/day in the subway system, and then go out and move rubble.
Most Gestapo personnel continued in the various West German police forces after the war unmolested by judicial authorities.
And in the East, the Stazi picked up where the Gestapo left. And improved upon its methods.
Thank you very much for this sober view on the Gestapo!
Our pleasure!
Excellent !
Whenever Astrid says “darlings” it makes me think of the nuns, back in school. I instantly panic and think of things I should feel guilty about 😆
Which is as it should be. :)
I love her accent and style, her saying darlingks also gives me thoughts I should feel guilty about. But don't.
The Gestapo is most prominent in European movies, but they rarely appear in German ones, that‘s for a reason
What is the reason?
@@Mercurywheeler The reason is explained in the video. Few Germans actually had negative interactions with the Gestapo in particular except Jews and minorities. It therefore doesn't feature prominently in German movies. It was however very violent and oppressive in the German-occupied areas, which is why it appears so prominently in other European movies.
Thanks!
Nice analysis.
As a dual national, British and German, I have to say that even to this day the culture of “snitching” to the Police, even for the most minor social transgressions, remains very high in Germany. Still to this day many apartment buildings still have the classic “Denunziant/in”. 😂
They seem to think what would be unthinkable in the U.K as totally acceptable! 😂
As fascism grows in power worldwide, you think "hey let’s may a video about how the Gestapo weren’t as bad as people thought." REALLY? :/ even some of the examples you gave bring into question the absurdity of making the argument of downplaying the extreme nature of the Gestapo and the fear and impact they had.
I like these videos, but cartoons have warned me my whole life to NEVER trust anyone with a waxed moustache
The circuitous logic in this is incredible....
In any oppressive society, though, If you cooperate, you’re probably not gonna have too much problem. Just saying.
Its sure that way with the Evangelicals.
I am not sure of the purpose of this topic. It would be insightful to understand the effect on self censorship that these high profile cases have on the population. This is applicable today because many people around the world are experiencing an increase in self censorship on several topics.
Great video! Love the click here blooper. This is simply great stuff!
I can hear these two narrations all day
Thank you!
How dare you minimize the atrocities of the Nazis and particularly the Gestapo. In reality the vast majority of Germans fully backed Hitler UNTIL they started to lose the war. Only then did they demonstrate doubt and uncertainty about the war they caused. And that is when the Gestapo started the domestic crackdowns and informer networks and murders. The real Gestapo atrocities were committed against the people you mentioned in your report; homosexuals, mentally ill etc. And they were every bit as bad as anything Stalin or Mao did. As for the average German and Hitler supporter, which was MOST of the German people, well, they got what they deserved.
While I don't doubt the factual data given in this video, I don't fully agree with the conclusion. (Almost) Everyone claiming after the war that they never really supported the Nazis is obviously hogwash and, as you've said, fear from the Gestapo is a convenient alibi for remaining silent while one's neighbours were being taken away, but what happened when for example, people were caught trying to help Jews and thus can we say that inaction due to fear was never anything more than an excuse?
But I would like to start from a different angle. Any meaningful political opposition needs to have leaders, who then shape the political goals and are capable of moving and coordinating the masses. Otherwise, you will have isolated groups with varying goals (often detracting from one another) and any public display of dissent will be small enough to easily be stomped out before others have had the time to hear about it and decide whether they were going to join it. In Germany, serious opposition leaders had been eradicated, which then served a dual purpose of both "decapitating" the opposition and setting an example. We see that in effect today in some totalitarian countries: a group of people goes out to protest semi spontaneously, police shows up, grabs as many as they can before the demonstrations disperse, first time offenders get a slap on the wrist and repeat offenders and "ring-leaders" get trumped up charges and years long prison sentences and things quiet down.
The second thing that I'd like to point out is that, for the German people to toe the line, Gestapo didn't have to be everywhere, it was enough that the citizens believed that it was (similar to the age old tactics of kicking up dust to make the enemy overestimate the other side's numbers). From the quotes of Churchill and that soc-dem paper, that did seem to be the case. As per your numbers, on average, for every day of Nazi rule, 4 German citizens who were neither Jews nor any other special kind of "undesirables" were executed. And you can look at the total population of the Reich and say "that's not really such a big number", but consider how it felt for an ordinary German citizen to be able to hear that someone just like him has been executed once again, pretty much every day (also, try imagining 4 executions per 100M people per day in a normal society, that would be 13 people daily for the US, or around 4500 per year; no one would say that that wasn't a big number).
Thus, if Gestapo did happen to knock on your door, only for it to end up in a warning, you didn't think that they were "mostly harmless", you thanked your lucky star and tried to stay on the straight and narrow in the future. And your neighbours, who knew that you'd been visited by the Gestapo and saw that you changed a bit since? Well, they would probably try to avoid being visited by them themselves and also they wouldn't be sure if you hadn't been made an informant.
Finally, knowing that you're technically guilty of a capital crime (such as listening to the foreign radio), yet still breathing, does not make you feel safe from the police, especially when all of the above is considered. It makes you aware that, should the state take interest in you, they could, under the law, easily crush you. Just like those four people that were executed every day.
In conclusion, if 75% of the population stated that they were not afraid of an arrest, I highly doubt that they all felt that way because they believed that they lived in a free society. Rather, I would say that they felt that way because they had not done anything for which people were being arrested. So one would huddle next to the radio in their own home and quietly listen to the BBC without much worry, but one would know better than to do anything active or public. Not like those kids, writing defeatist and pacifist pamphlets and getting their heads lopped off for it, no, nothing of the sort. And thus they "felt safe from arrest".
Two things. A. I should have mentioned this in the video… from 1934 to 1945 between 70 and 80% of Germans were supportive of the Nazis. This number is based on extensive research from multiple scholars - and each method used has stood the test of falsifiability (scientific standard of proof). That fits snuggly with the 75% of people saying they did not fear the Gestapo. Taken together this makes it unreasonable to make an assumption that the lack of fear was due to “not doing anything wrong” because an oppressive environment of fear.
B. Your point about a lacking opposition has much more merit… but that’s not the Gestapo. Of course the abolishment of all free political expression, and non-Nazi political organizations had a positive effect on the previously mentioned support. But again, that’s not the Gestapo, and it’s not a force of direct individual oppression and suppression in everyday life. It’s even more insidious than that…
@@spartacus-olsson Hi Spartacus and thank you very much for taking the time to go through my comment and write the reply. Those support numbers provide a lot of background. I was not aware of them and was always torn between the films of massive rallies and the fact that the Nazi Party "only" won around 33% of the vote in the last elections prior to Hitler's appointment as chancellor.
Those must have been strange times to live in. If 70-80% of the population supported the Nazis, yet 50% of the population secretly listened to the forbidden foreign radio stations, we get that at least one in three Nazi supporters felt that they couldn't trust what the government were saying in their media, yet, at the end of the day, still supported them.
@@ocudagledam yes, strange times indeed. I can think of a few reasons for the dichotomy, but I think it should be researched more if it hasn’t. I need to dive in to my literature.
You’ve almost completely overlooked the detailed studies of esteemed academics such as Eric Johnson, who’ve more or less proven that the vast majority of Gestapo arrests ( or ‘ protective custody ‘ , as the Gestapo termed it ) relied on agents of the Nazi state to do not much more than sit back and await a veritable deluge of denunciations and slander from a wide variety of disgruntled nasties. Johnson’s work examines, in minute detail, that expose that the mere ‘ warnings ‘ you refer to quite often DID lead to prolonged detention, interrogation, torture, and despatchment to certain demise.
Incredible WW2 history i have ever watched. I need to learn how to be as articulate at they are.
Hi, thank you so much for watching! Glad you're enjoying the content.
Need some thrills? ☠️ Do you know what the interrogations and tortures carried out by the Gestapo in PAWIAK in Warsaw during the occupation looked like? You have many possibilities. Until 1944, about 100,000 people were tortured there. Few of those who survived never recovered from the horrors they endured behind bars. The Gestapo employed sadists and psychopaths. Beating with a rubber cable after hanging naked from a steel beam, beating with barbed wire, pulling nails out, beating with a steel bar, knocking out teeth, electric shock, suffocating with a damaged gas mask, frying with a heat gun and cigarettes, drowning in a bucket, walking barefoot on hot coal, physical terror and psychological terror, and "ordinary" taking them to be shot. The torturers had no mercy for anyone - they did not spare even pregnant women. Hair matted with blood. This is the real crime story of the Gestapo. Calling someone today "Gestapo" is one of the worst insults. In hell, the Gestapo today have their own exclusive cauldron. 💀🔥👹 That's for sure.
War propaganda by the USSR.
@@exit5620 An empty word without proof is worth nothing
Hello I am a deaf person, I need official subtitles, non automatic subtitles, is it possible to add official subtitles?
Thank you for the effort to add official subtitles in previous videos
Hello, you hand-talking tard-bleater, I need a healthier population, not just unfit and disgusting people that are kept alive where natural selection would've killed them off centuries ago, is it possible to restore this evolutionary equilibrium?
Very good choice of wristwatch.
Now that's a power couple.