It is always illuminating to hear the hysterical note in the voices of people who "just can't even" with the idea that Jews may have some claim to the land as well, or whenever it is mentioned that the Palestinian side is anything other than completely right and perfect. It showcases exactly why the Palestinian cause captures the hearts of people who insists on seing the world in terms of black-and -white absolutes (yes, the black and white issues as well), and who can not tolerate having their ideology challenged by any other interpretation or even well established facts. When you can't stand to listen to an answer to a question you yourself asked, you've lost all credibility. Only a weak argument can't handle a debate.
And it happens with unbelievable consistency. White people America English left wing oriented projecting their own colonial imperial guilt onto jews. I ve never heard any pro palestine discussing with an intention of peace and I ve listen to 300 hours of interviews lectures etc
Benny Morris is a good historian and fair in his assertions. The infinite patience he displays here in front of such rude and ignorant hecklers is worthy of all respect
The impatience, intolerance and contempt many in the audience exhibit when it comes to any mention of Jewish connection to the land of Israel, speaks volumes. Sad but quite elucidating.
Right? I also note the laughable reaction amongst a certain segment of the audience trying to whitewash Arab Islamic imperialism. As if the sudden theft of North Africa and most of Southwestern Asia magically came into the hands of Arabs through the sale of cookies. "Palestine" is nothing more than wretched, revanchist Arab colonialism.
@@broadcastmadnesssno only the ones that don’t provide any arguments especially against someone who knows way more. But if you feel like putting forward a solid arguments feel free
You don't think LSE ever has Palestinian or Arab historians? Not everything about Israel/Palestine needs to be a debate. The only reason Morris was there was to talk about his book about the 1948 War. Not about the entire history of the Jewish People, not the entire history of the Palestinians, not an overview of 60 years of Israeli-Arab conflict and not to make moral judgments (his book is a history, not a book claiming to inform or promote public policy). Why is that so hard to understand?
Furthermore, I would never make the assumption that it is the responsibility of a single academic to fully portray a period of history. One could only make an honest and rigorous attempt at that aim, and I believe Morris had done exactly that.
I really enjoyed listening to Professor Morris's lecture. I have never learned more from a lecture about the 1948 Arab-Israeli war than I heard from this lecture. Truly phenomenal. I have not read his book but it would certainly be an interesting read.
I like the speaker's point about the existence of Palestine refuges 60+ years later and the complete absence of Jewish refugees. I think that this completely describes the problem and the attitudes of Muslim vs. Jewish governments in the Middle East.
"Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who have neither honor nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states, and Lebanon amongst them, did it." -- The Beirut Muslim weekly Kul-Shay, August 19, 1951
Good quote. Syria brought them in and Jordan too. Were they placed in tent cities in those countries? Why weren't they welcomed to assimilate ? Why did the Pakistani partition from India succeed while Palestine partition failed? Also, the population of gaza is now swollen by Syrian and Lebonese refugees, I hear. How does that work in terms of land settlement deals. I think P/I should return to the 1947 partition boundaries. Palestine should be occupied by a UN coalition force devoted to forming a stable democratic government, not an armed theocracy. The warlords will not go quietly they will be fighting for another decade at least. Palestine to recognize Israel and vice versa. Jerusalem should become a world heritage site, governed by a coalition of Arab , Jews Christian and the UN, They should be leaders whose job it is to respect and protect the holy places. The Mosque compound should be repaired and relocated a short distance from the Israeli Temple Mount, Holy of Holys. It is not right for it to remain there as an insult to the Jews, a symbol of Arab occupation. There is no good reason why it has to be on top of a Jewish historical and religious location.
Absolutely brilliant lecture 52:15 in response to a ridiculous question on why he focussed so much on 1948 in his lecture 'well i focussed on 1948 because im an historian and it interests me'
The response of several of the LSE students was disappointing. The institution has high standards and rivals Oxford and Cambridge. Those shouting out seem to prefer their emotive response to international issues and history rather learning any of the details.
Seems to me that most speakers in general that speak on behalf of Israel are talking about peace making, are acknowledging Palestinian right for a state, they're for two states solution. Most speakers on behalf of the Palestinian side are claiming Israel has no right to exist, Jews have to right on Palestine (despite all the archeological and historical evidence that proves Jews dwelt the land for thousands of years), and are basically arguing for a none peaceful solution. it's sad.
138 + 2 non UN states have recognized Palesteine while 167 recognize Israel. Most states are not recognizing Palestine while many have done with Israel
The thing is that they are only hurting themselves by failing to deal with reality as it exists. Regardless of what they think about Israel and the past and what their rights should be, as you go through life everybody absolutely everybody encounters things that are unjust. At a certain point you just need to figure out what you can change and what you can't and try to make the best of it. So rather than just accepting a two-state solution that is less than what they want, they are committing themselves to generation after generation of living in violence and squalor. When Israel removed itself from gaza, they could have created something really nice there. If it had been the other way around and the Jews were given that, they would have made something really nice out of it.
When a highly respected historian is telling you something, you shut up, listen and learn, the way these ignorant students behaved in this event is alarming, who the hell do they think they are?
Part of the problem in public events is that if it isn't a debate and you're in the public gallery, you can't participate. You watch and listen. But it can be irritating that you're not allowed to interrupt. But then this isn't even a panel with a number of panelists so there's no 'debate' not even amongst experts. So it can feel unfair.
@@MrRedcarpet02 Unfair is to be an expert on a field that you've studied for literally decades, go to University to teach about it and have to deal with a bunch of ignorant and immature 20-year-olds that think they know more than you do, when they clearly don't, Benny Morris has been studying this subject since before most of these students were even born
@@fafolaw My point is that generally it's emotionally irritating to have to listen and not participate. It's like with lobbying politicians but nothing happens, then you watch them argue over bad manners and interrupting each other on TV. Also these are very significant issues. So when all you can do is watch/listen it's very irritating. In this regard it's about both an inter-state war and a civil war. With lots of historical factors around it too
@@MrRedcarpet02 "It's like with lobbying politicians but nothing happens" what? that has literally nothing to do with this. If it's emotionally irritating for them to sit down and listen to an expert speak about something for an hour, then what the hell are they doing in university? that's the whole point of going there, to learn from people that know more than them, they did have the opportunity to participate and they used it to behave like assholes
@@fafolaw anyone can attend these sorts of events. I don't know why you're claiming they're only students and only in their 20s. You don't have to be in your 20s to interrupt, far older people do that all the time.
Absolutely shameful. An ill-mannered mob behaving like howling banshees. And the gobsmacking temerity of an audience filled with BRITS, of all people, whose history is quite literally sodden and soaked with a wretched record of abysmal imperial crime, from Tasmania to Diego Garcia, Cyprus to the Transvaal, to be leaping up and down in ( ahem ) ‘ indignation !!!
Having a section of history dedicated to ‘Crimes of the British Empire’ was stopped by PM Johnson, of course! So sensitive to the teaching of it. And the right wing tabloids went wild too, predictably, at the proposal
I am shocked by the unbelievable arrogance of the questions posed to the speaker. Reading a few books on this difficult subject does not entitle any member of the audience the credibility to denounce a dedicated career of a renowned historian. The research of Benny Morris conforms to the high standards required of a historian; the authenticity could easily be checked by those who doubt him (preferably before they make a fool of themselves).
But they won't let Palestinian refugees in and they don't call themselves Palestinians. I think that was a signal of alliance to appease the 3 mlion Palestinians in the country.
@@alaaraad5194what piece of information is propaganda according to your standards? Or maybe you would rather have him say that the Jews came to Palestine in order to kick them out plain and simple ? And this would not have been propaganda according to you I suppose
@@roro-op1ks waw, I can't remember much from my comment 6 years ago. But here is the thing, there has always been Jews living in the land of Palestine, and they were living with Arabs, Muslims and Christians, peacefully. And so when the European jews came, there were people living there, but they made up the story that the land was empty. The land was not empty, and Jerusalem is one of the most continuously inhabited city in the world.
There are no parts in the interview in which he states that the "land was empty" in fact multiple times he references Palestinians living in the region prior to 1948@@alaaraad5194
You are right about Palestine and Jerusalem, but completely wrong about the US. The possibility of creating some sort of autonomous Jewish area in the continental US during the 20th century was never remotely feasible. Many Jewish people were refused entry into the US in years before the WW2 and were not particularly welcome even afterwards.
The majority of the students were so rude, seemed incapable of respecting the dynamic of the forum, and asking poorly articulated questions. Most of the students were only interested in pontificating their particular bias,, The women in particular were stunningly inarticulate.
Reading some informations of "population in palestine during Ottoman and British rull" there were very few arabs in israel-palestine.. Also Mark Twain and other travellers mention an astonishing deserted country . Arabs arrives in huge quantities while jews and Brits build infrastractures, Farms and industry as Arabs go wherever there is work
Wow, the guy who picks up on the "unfortunately" ironic comment is such an idiot. He was just sat that waiting for Morris to say ANYTHING in which he could twist into an attack on him. The other comments and the applause that accompanied them... How sad.
"The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead." -- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963
Compare this talk to the talk Benny gave a couple of months ago at the LSE. The audience just didn't let him talk. They interrupted him all the time. It was horrible to watch
Jordanian Prime Minister Zayd ar-Rifa'i told an interviewer in 1975: Jordan is Palestine. They have never been ruled as two separate states except during the British Mandate. Before 1918 the two banks of the Jordan River were a single state. When they returned to being a single state after 1948, it was a matter of building on the earlier unity. Their families are one, as are their welfare, affiliation, and culture.
@boliusb Read the book, and pay attention to the fact that many Palestinians helped the HIS and/or Haganah by informing. Also, some Palestinian villages/towns (Tiberias, p. 138) refused to let in Arab militiamen because they had a peaceful existence with their Jewish neighbors. Then you have a direct quote from a Palestinian jeweler "...it were better to have accepted the partition agreement peacefully and not to surrender to the enemy in war." (p. 150)
You are right about coexistence but that was spurned by the Zionist leadership and that viewpoint on a 1947 two state outcome is laced with the benefit of hindsight and ignorance. Zionist leaders had no intention of abiding by the UN's 1947 partition. No better exemplified by taking 60% of the area the UN proposed for the Arab state, including the Jaffa, Lydda and Ramle area, Upper Galilee, some parts of the Negev and a wide strip along the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem road. That was in conjunction with a sweet heart deal with Jordan over the West Bank that following on from planning from around 1964, it too along with Gaza & Golan Heights was taken in the 1967 War. There are even religious Zionists today who have their eyes set on the East Bank and Jordan. Israel has never had an appetite for an Arab or Palestinian state since day one and that greed will ultimately be their downfall.
Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen). Abbas wrote in March 1976 that: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe."
"Palestine is desolate and unlovely... It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... [a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life... We never saw a human being on the whole route... There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country..." - Mark Twain (describing a visit in 1867).
its worth comparing this lecture by pro Morris , with the lecture given by pro Chomsky , at about the same time , seems those watching or listening to these two lecture shown in the comments and likes , indicate very different points of view .... Noam Chomsky: Israel and Palestine (Full Lecture) , 79,703 views •May 6, 2011 Noam Chomsky speaks at Clark University, Worcester, MA (USA). April 12, 2011. Courtesy of Team Good. TVSBSC
1:08:45 I can answer your second question with one sentence. "The Israelis were fighting the Palestinians, not the Christians, White shirts, etc." Also, maybe that guy didn't realize, Morris is ISRAELI....i.e. biased. btw, good job Morris. "Do you want an answer?" i would've just left and said "Apparently, my answer wasn't wanted." people should let someone finish their answer before objecting. unless they are psychic.
I’m always amazed by colonizers being hypocritical. The nerve of those British folks. God bless Dr. Morris. Maybe if the Europeans and Arabs didn’t mistreat the Jews for thousands of years they wouldn’t have to do what every group throughout the history of the world has done, take what they wanted.
1:24:15 wow. talk about not getting the point of the entire lecture. he kept saying that the public opinion of Israelis was a fear of of genocide, but that it was unfounded. seriously, how did that not sink in, since he made that point not once, but at least 3 times. Also, once again, good response Mr. Morris, "if you think i'm wrong, do some research and see if what i say has any merit." seriously, these people should be asking how they can access and read these sources themselves.
two state solution is the San Remo Conference. The Arabs got two states (Syrian and Iraq) and the Jews got Israel (what is today Israel and Jordan.) There is also a peace treaty between the Jews and Arabs in 1919 which like all peace agreements the Arabs refuse to honor.
(2) For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
this is the summary of the plight of the palestinian arabs ... they are oppressed and victimised not by Israel but by their Arab leaders and brothers who throughout the years have weaponised them to fight against the Jews
No, there was no lying, only truth. It's hard to hear, i know. Of course, I was refering to how he conducted himself with dignity, while amongst a mob. I suppose my comment was difficult to interpret :)
amazing how hard for these people to accept realities of history, namely that the Arab/Muslim invasion and occupation of North Africa, Israel (or Coele-Syria if you wish) and the Levant was a colonial endeavor which had elements of racism (see what Muslims did to converts to Islam in the Iberian peninsula as just a speck of an example) and fascism... but then its so easy to claim the Jews make matzos out of Balestinian children for Purim.
@boliusb well, the thing is, if you do read his book (which i am currently doing), you can tell that he is in fact biased. everyone has a bias, no matter what/who they do/are. academics just tend to be able to see their own bias more objectively. no matter what, when people believe something, it always comes out in little ways through actions and/or words.
I'm sorry it is this way. I can think of only one solution and both sides have been hurt and have huge heads so they probably wouldn't even consider it.
Zuhair Mohsen in Dutch newspaper Trouw, March 1977: "The Pal-people does not exist. The creation of a Pal's state is only a means for continuing our struggle against Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a PP, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.
In your first post you claim 700 arrests made, make up your mind buddy :) Irgun numbered 3000 & lehi 500, compared with 35000 in the Haganah alone. Not exactly what one would call mainstream. Irgun had absolutely no link to Hitler. Unlike Haj Amin al-Husseini, who you don't like to talk about.
No he did not say it. You infer from it, because you do not want to associate the origin of the Palestinian ethos of "resistance" to something with negative connotations (for you) that is "Jihad". We are talking about their own period, in a time where Jihad had other understanding of what it was, and even so we do not know fully what it meant for the general Arab population, as Morris himself admitted.
The real meaning of Jihad is a struggle in the way of Allah. The type of Jihad everyone knows about is Lesser Jihad. It is only in defense against oppression and there are many rules for it so that the people doing Jihad themselves do not commit a sin.
Jews have a legitimate claim to an ancestral land. 1. Indigenous Jews and Samaritans were the oldest continuous inhabitants of that land. The archeology of the land proves their ancient presence as a consequential nation. Palestinians can not make the same claim. 2. The Jews were a consequential nation in Israel, from Canaanite times, until the Roman occupation and Jewish diaspora in around 136 CE. 3. The Roman Hadrian renamed Israel' Palestine' trying to erase its name and presence in history. So from then on, Palestine was a place name connoting Israel, not an Arab country. The only old extant maps you find of Palestine are Christian maps for teaching the biblical history of Israel. 4. Israel was occupied in 700CE by the widespread Arab Conquest, an imperial colonizing force. Arab rule gave way to the Imperial Ottoman Empire. Under the Turks ,Palestine did not exist as a self governing State. Not for 700 years. As such , there was no occupation of an Arab state by Israel.Arabs did not even own land but leased it from the Sultan.! Arabs were self governing only under Sharia law. In 1917, an empire fell, and in it's place five new countries were formed including Arab Palestine. But it was rejected. So no compromise was possible by the ethnic Arabs. If they wanted a country they had it. Someone gave it up, ever since. 5. Arabs lived in only 47percent of the land which is now Israel. It was uninhabitable land. The Jews lived on 6 percent of the land until 1947, 1948. They bought that land. 6. Diaspora Jews remained attached to Israel by religion, culture, ethnicity. origins genetics, language and history. They remained a nation of people . Therefore, Jews have a strong claim to the lands of their ancestors. 7. Palestine was not exclusively Arab. Jews , Samaritans, Christians, Greeks. DRUIZE, Bedouin all of them were Palestine. all of them entitled to political self-determination. 8. It's been said that Arab population birth rate increased dramatically under British health programs. It's also claimed that 2/3rds of the Arabs within Israeli boundaries had migrated there from Lebanon and Syria after the war because living conditions were so bad and because of reconstruction chaos. I'm looking for a primary source on that. But the figure of 1.2 million is on the high side imo.
@boliusb So, in summation, while most palestinians hated and feared Israel coming into being, there were some who co-operated and others who willingly helped the Jews. Academics are people too and everyone is biased about something. Read the book. As far as palestinians that support Israel today, I don't know any. Also, I don't know any palestinians. So that kind of makes it difficult to find out what some of them believe. It's hard to believe that every single one hates Israel though.
It was a good to hear that lecture, the simple solution is that , why to not open the whole country as it was before 1917, when the country was owned by Muslims and everyone lives as neighbors, if really the Jewish thinking that this land is their ancestors land, so they are welcome to live on it as they lived before, why you should you force the people who living in this country to leave and to change the whole identity to match yours , why not just to live and to share it with others , why this war from the beginning ??
Because what you have in mind is an Arab state in which some Jews might be allowed to live at the pleasure of the ruling Muslim Arabs.And the only Jews even eligible for this "privilege" would be those whose ancestors lived there before 1917 or ,perhaps,1882.And the 7 million Jews currently living in Israel will accept that particular solution only after an all out nuclear war-and then only if your side wins it.
What makes you say it was « owned » by Muslims? Because it was conquered by ottoman Empire ? Many jews have been there for thousands of years and when the sionists came back in 1881 there was only 15 nomads Arabs per square km in Palestine (Morris source) and there was absolutely no institutions in Palestine
Palestine is not in the Bible or the Quran. Palestine tydar Phillistina, and is a name of a greek sea people "Philistines " . In the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament is "the land of Israel." The historical land of Israel.
He says that both Jews have a right to their own state : they complain He says Palestinians simply refuse to consider a 2 state solution: they complain as well 🤣
They don’t need it to be an official policy for all villages cause not all villages needed to be Ethnic cleansed. The ratio is what israel needs for it’s demographic desire, a strong Jewish majority, not absolutely 0% Palestinian population. That isn’t necessary. Because villages were unique there was no official policy on how to deal with a village An official policy would be very different in terms of effects between Ramla and Dier Yassin and Nazareth
This guy forgets to mention how the UK government took the Palestine country (then called Palestine) and handed it to the Jews who they armed with weapons and then left. You do not have to look far to find first hand video statements of young Palestine people, children at the time, speak of the Jewish state people’s entering Palestine villages and murdering all the adults and children there. They did this to create terror in the minds of other cities and towns and this drove Palestine people out of those areas allowing the Jewish people to steal their homes, their towns and their cities. Palestine people were drove into the unsettled areas where they became refugees. While Palestines tried to rise up at times the Jewish were better armed by the UK and always won. Since the. The Israel government who renamed the country has been given money from the U.S. and European countries which they used to create their government and later their own defence force. The Palestine were never given money by any other government and no longer recognised as even a state. They were forced to rely in their oppressors, Israel to eat and even drink. Water is frightfully scare in Israel. Isreal has done barely enough to allow Palestine to survive in refugee camps which they later fenced, the Gaza Strip for example. Refugee Jews who Israel encouraged to come to isreal from other countries entered the country and would steal the homes of Palestine people who had either resettled their home as refugees or were lucky enough not to be driven out in 1948. To this day Israel settlers continue to steal homes of Palestine with the permission and help of isreal. Isreal is an apartheid state. It continues to murder Palestine people every week, month and year and has done so for decades. It is now killing 300-700 Palestine people a day, a palestine child every 13 minutes. Palestine lost its country because the UK decided it should be given to the Jews because European countries did not want Jewish refugee people to settle in their country. The current Israel government have committed war crimes and amnesty international has referred it to the international criminal court for war crimes it have committed in recent years, let alone recent months. I am not anti-Semite. I hate all peoples who kill innocent civilians in order to steal their land or deny them of their rightful country.
I certainly think that if someone writes something as certainty as you do, then you probably have a lot of knowledge in the subject, so please can you tell who controlled gaza strip and the west bank between 48 and 67? Also, I don't see the connection between Israel and refugee camps as there were none in Israel. They were in the surrounding countries, who got money from the UN for feeding them and keeping their welfare. So if you want to talk about the oppression of the refugee camps, you blame the wrong country. Indeed, the British armed the jews. You know why? Because the jews fought on the British side in the ww2, while Arabs...well, they sided by nazis. That's the main reason. They always chose the wrong side, make the wrong decision and not willing to bear consequences for their actions. To this day.
@@anyazubova1518 Hi Anya, I assume by your mis statement of all the facts or half truths in some cases you are clearly connected to Israel in some way. We don’t live in an age where FACTUAL information is hard to obtain and where people are uneducated. In the time of the invasion of Palestine by the WW2 Jews many people could not read, historians to records facts were few and far between. Even 20 years ago information was not as widely available as it is now via the internet. Independant researchers and even media sources are widely available to anyone who can logon to the internet. Not so nowadays. When I first made this above comment Israel had not murdered over 10,000 Palestine people, all unarmed and trapped inside a prison made for them by Israel who controlled every aspect of their live, directly and indirectly. Irrespective of the past (and there is no doubt Israel stole the Palestine country from the arabs by murder and mayhem) here we are 70 years later and the Israeli’s are continuing the slaughter and the Palestine people for one reason only, they are not Jewish. How ironic that a people who were so terribly treated, who had genocide committed upon them by the Nazi’s should turn around and torture another group of people for 70 years so they could have their country and land - and now turn full circle to begin committing genocide on the Palestine people. I will never look at Israel the same again, I have been overwhelmed with the lack of compassion by every government minister and over 90% of the people. Whilst the Israeli government and people rant to the world they must kill the Palestine people “in self defence” it is actually the Israeli people who intend to genocide the entire Palestine people and it is the Palestine People who are in need of defence. I have heard the Israeli government claim they are at war, at war with whom…the unarmed men woman children and even babies of Palestine. Do the Palestine people have fighter jets, do they have tanks, do they have an armed military forced paid for by 4 billion dollars a year from the US. No, through no fault of their own after the Israeli’s stole their country they became refugees and have been subjected to apartheid under a cruel Israeli govt for decades, kept of the verge of starvation and force to live in (in the words of an Israeli govt minister the largest concentration on earth). No matter which way you cut it that’s what the Israeli people and government have become. They are our modern day Hitler and the Palestine people are the Jews of the Second World War. I wonder if they will have the same chance to be liberated as the Jews were in that time. We will see, whilst we all believe and want to hope for justice my life experience has shown it does not always occur and sometime the baddies win, in this case the monstrous evil regime that is the Israeli Government. Shame on you for even trying to defend the murder we are all witnessing on our screens every day, NOTHING, and I mean nothing can excuse what the Israeli government and their army is doing right. Even if the prisoners rose up against the prison guards in a murderous way, Israel claims to be a state government with morals, it has become a state government that has no morals and is murderous and it is dooming its entire population to be stained by their sins for decades to come.
Morris is quite correct it point out that force has been the deciding factor in history. Today it is up to the working class to organise itself, take power, defeat the capitalist counter revolution and reorganise society. Israel is a garrison state of the imperialist powers in a region with geostrategic energy reserves and transport routes. It’s fate is tied to that of the imperialist powers themselves. Only the international working class has the potential strength to stop a barbaric catastrophe. What we are seeing in Gaza is just the beginning.
Make Palestinian lawful Israeli citizens like all the rest in Israel. The land is the Lord God's and has always been, it was always lawfully Israels but men got involved because they rejected the Word and the truth. 1 John 2:18 KJV 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1 John 2:22 KJV 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 4:3 KJV 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
And you have to keep in mind that he works solely from Hebrew and English archives. He doesn't read or speak Arabic, and as he mentions often, Arab archives are unavailable (and Turkish archives are also quite limited). His works in the 80's were quite revolutionary for the Israeli public with regards to the Palestinian refugees problem.
I suggest you go listen from Ilan Pappe about what really happened before and after this war. Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian who accumulated his rhetoric from revising and reading countless archives from the british mandate and israel about the history of what happened in palestine since the israeli project started. Don't waste your time listening to propogandas
Pappe is more of an activist than a historian at this point …. Pretty sure he’s admitted this himself. Super anti-Israel and he picks the facts accordingly. If you’re accusing Morris f being a propagandist you’ll have to keep that same energy for Pappe.
Which countries attacked Israel? Israel had attacked and expelled nearly 200 Palestinians villages, cities and towns before the first Arab armies entered Palestine on May 16, 1948. Israel attacked first in 48, 56, 67 and 82. What should be the worlds response to the Hagannah, Irgun and Lehi expelling more than 200 villages, cities and towns?
Zeev Moaz wrote a book called 'Defense of the Hold land'. He analysed nearly all Israel's conflicts or cross border attacks from 48 to 82. In nearly all cases, Israel attacked first. For me, the Zionists European settlers declared war the minute they decided to establish a Jewish majority, sovereignty and expel the indigenous Palestinian population.
He literally said that Jordan focused on taking the West Bank rather than fighting Israel in 1948, you didn't pay attention to the lecture. Btw officially yes they did, both Iraq and Transjordan (it wasn't Jordan yet) participated in the Arab invasion in 1948.
@@deficrypto1234 Incorrect your side started the war by murdering 7 Jews on 2 buses on Nov.30,1947.The pan-Arab state armies intervened once it became clear that the Palestinian Arab militias and Kawukji's pan-Arab Liberation army would be unable to beat the Jews.Suggestion:Go to a library and do some reading before posting.
well that was fun - some really really good questions...answered by the usual (i am from another planet) answers - i am from another universal thus i have no idea about this thing called history that you are talking about....and do not bother trying to explain, i have no interest whatsever
+Johny Diala It was written in the context of mass terrorism and how would be terrorist should be kept out. He explains that in this freaking video around 1:09:00-1:10:30.
Right wing "zealouts " don't want to make peace, Don't want a 2 state-solution, dont want to give up the West bank, Gaza, and certainly zealots dont want to give up east Jerusalem and re-divide the city! Thats basically the exact opposite position of the historic "zealouts" .
It is always illuminating to hear the hysterical note in the voices of people who "just can't even" with the idea that Jews may have some claim to the land as well, or whenever it is mentioned that the Palestinian side is anything other than completely right and perfect. It showcases exactly why the Palestinian cause captures the hearts of people who insists on seing the world in terms of black-and -white absolutes (yes, the black and white issues as well), and who can not tolerate having their ideology challenged by any other interpretation or even well established facts. When you can't stand to listen to an answer to a question you yourself asked, you've lost all credibility. Only a weak argument can't handle a debate.
You captured it perfectly
And it happens with unbelievable consistency. White people America English left wing oriented projecting their own colonial imperial guilt onto jews. I ve never heard any pro palestine discussing with an intention of peace and I ve listen to 300 hours of interviews lectures etc
Benny Morris is a good historian and fair in his assertions. The infinite patience he displays here in front of such rude and ignorant hecklers is worthy of all respect
The impatience, intolerance and contempt many in the audience exhibit when it comes to any mention of Jewish connection to the land of Israel, speaks volumes.
Sad but quite elucidating.
Yeah, Britain has a big antisemitism problem, particularly amongst the 'activist class'
Right? I also note the laughable reaction amongst a certain segment of the audience trying to whitewash Arab Islamic imperialism. As if the sudden theft of North Africa and most of Southwestern Asia magically came into the hands of Arabs through the sale of cookies.
"Palestine" is nothing more than wretched, revanchist Arab colonialism.
@@olivernissen9386 Yes, all criticism of Israel should be considered as "antissemitism".
Not all, just the ones that are.
@@broadcastmadnesssno only the ones that don’t provide any arguments especially against someone who knows way more. But if you feel like putting forward a solid arguments feel free
You don't think LSE ever has Palestinian or Arab historians? Not everything about Israel/Palestine needs to be a debate. The only reason Morris was there was to talk about his book about the 1948 War. Not about the entire history of the Jewish People, not the entire history of the Palestinians, not an overview of 60 years of Israeli-Arab conflict and not to make moral judgments (his book is a history, not a book claiming to inform or promote public policy). Why is that so hard to understand?
Furthermore, I would never make the assumption that it is the responsibility of a single academic to fully portray a period of history. One could only make an honest and rigorous attempt at that aim, and I believe Morris had done exactly that.
I really enjoyed listening to Professor Morris's lecture. I have never learned more from a lecture about the 1948 Arab-Israeli war than I heard from this lecture. Truly phenomenal. I have not read his book but it would certainly be an interesting read.
I like the speaker's point about the existence of Palestine refuges 60+ years later and the complete absence of Jewish refugees. I think that this completely describes the problem and the attitudes of Muslim vs. Jewish governments in the Middle East.
"Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who have neither honor nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states, and Lebanon amongst them, did it."
-- The Beirut Muslim weekly Kul-Shay, August 19, 1951
Good quote. Syria brought them in and Jordan too. Were they placed in tent cities in those countries? Why weren't they welcomed to assimilate ? Why did the Pakistani partition from India succeed while Palestine partition failed?
Also, the population of gaza is now swollen by Syrian and Lebonese refugees, I hear. How does that work in terms of land settlement deals.
I think P/I should return to the 1947 partition boundaries.
Palestine should be occupied by a UN coalition force devoted to forming a stable democratic government, not an armed theocracy. The warlords will not go quietly they will be fighting for another decade at least.
Palestine to recognize Israel and vice versa.
Jerusalem should become a world heritage site, governed by a coalition of Arab , Jews Christian and the UN, They should be leaders whose job it is to respect and protect the holy places.
The Mosque compound should be repaired and relocated a short distance from the Israeli Temple Mount, Holy of Holys. It is not right for it to remain there as an insult to the Jews, a symbol of Arab occupation. There is no good reason why it has to be on top of a Jewish historical and religious location.
Absolutely brilliant lecture
52:15
in response to a ridiculous question on why he focussed so much on 1948 in his lecture
'well i focussed on 1948 because im an historian and it interests me'
The response of several of the LSE students was disappointing. The institution has high standards and rivals Oxford and Cambridge. Those shouting out seem to prefer their emotive response to international issues and history rather learning any of the details.
Seems to me that most speakers in general that speak on behalf of Israel are talking about peace making, are acknowledging Palestinian right for a state, they're for two states solution. Most speakers on behalf of the Palestinian side are claiming Israel has no right to exist, Jews have to right on Palestine (despite all the archeological and historical evidence that proves Jews dwelt the land for thousands of years), and are basically arguing for a none peaceful solution. it's sad.
138 + 2 non UN states have recognized Palesteine while 167 recognize Israel. Most states are not recognizing Palestine while many have done with Israel
Jews have dealt the land for many years. That does not mean every Jew had the right to live there just because they once lived there in abundance.
@@itismethatguy Why not?As a sovereign state Israel can decide whom to allow within its borders-same as any other state.
The thing is that they are only hurting themselves by failing to deal with reality as it exists. Regardless of what they think about Israel and the past and what their rights should be, as you go through life everybody absolutely everybody encounters things that are unjust. At a certain point you just need to figure out what you can change and what you can't and try to make the best of it. So rather than just accepting a two-state solution that is less than what they want, they are committing themselves to generation after generation of living in violence and squalor. When Israel removed itself from gaza, they could have created something really nice there. If it had been the other way around and the Jews were given that, they would have made something really nice out of it.
Who is to say.
When a highly respected historian is telling you something, you shut up, listen and learn, the way these ignorant students behaved in this event is alarming, who the hell do they think they are?
Part of the problem in public events is that if it isn't a debate and you're in the public gallery, you can't participate. You watch and listen. But it can be irritating that you're not allowed to interrupt. But then this isn't even a panel with a number of panelists so there's no 'debate' not even amongst experts. So it can feel unfair.
@@MrRedcarpet02 Unfair is to be an expert on a field that you've studied for literally decades, go to University to teach about it and have to deal with a bunch of ignorant and immature 20-year-olds that think they know more than you do, when they clearly don't, Benny Morris has been studying this subject since before most of these students were even born
@@fafolaw My point is that generally it's emotionally irritating to have to listen and not participate. It's like with lobbying politicians but nothing happens, then you watch them argue over bad manners and interrupting each other on TV. Also these are very significant issues. So when all you can do is watch/listen it's very irritating. In this regard it's about both an inter-state war and a civil war. With lots of historical factors around it too
@@MrRedcarpet02 "It's like with lobbying politicians but nothing happens" what? that has literally nothing to do with this.
If it's emotionally irritating for them to sit down and listen to an expert speak about something for an hour, then what the hell are they doing in university? that's the whole point of going there, to learn from people that know more than them, they did have the opportunity to participate and they used it to behave like assholes
@@fafolaw anyone can attend these sorts of events. I don't know why you're claiming they're only students and only in their 20s. You don't have to be in your 20s to interrupt, far older people do that all the time.
My left ear very much enjoyed this presentation
Absolutely shameful. An ill-mannered mob behaving like howling banshees. And the gobsmacking temerity of an audience filled with BRITS, of all people, whose history is quite literally sodden and soaked with a wretched record of abysmal imperial crime, from Tasmania to Diego Garcia, Cyprus to the Transvaal, to be leaping up and down in ( ahem ) ‘ indignation !!!
Having a section of history dedicated to ‘Crimes of the British Empire’ was stopped by PM Johnson, of course! So sensitive to the teaching of it. And the right wing tabloids went wild too, predictably, at the proposal
I am shocked by the unbelievable arrogance of the questions posed to the speaker. Reading a few books on this difficult subject does not entitle any member of the audience the credibility to denounce a dedicated career of a renowned historian. The research of Benny Morris conforms to the high standards required of a historian; the authenticity could easily be checked by those who doubt him (preferably before they make a fool of themselves).
Who loses credibility when a quick Google search identifies him as an "Israeli historian."
@@DubLubb He's a historian from Israel...
@nich.1918 who holds the view that the expulsion of all Palestinians is justified I believe.
@@DubLubb No he doesn't.
unfortunately, most Muslims think differently.
reality and history can not be ignored, but reformation will do the Muslim world good.
King al-Husayn asserted again in 1981 that "Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan."
Many people asserted many, many things regarding this conflict, including "Palestinians do not exist" and "Arabs are not as civilised as Jews."
But they won't let Palestinian refugees in and they don't call themselves Palestinians. I think that was a signal of alliance to appease the 3 mlion Palestinians in the country.
When you pick and choose from history, you get a very distorted picture.
But it's very useful when you need history to work in your favor ;)
Its always interesting to listen to him
He is a propagandist, I prefer people who are unbiased in their teachings of information.
@@alaaraad5194what piece of information is propaganda according to your standards? Or maybe you would rather have him say that the Jews came to Palestine in order to kick them out plain and simple ? And this would not have been propaganda according to you I suppose
@@roro-op1ks waw, I can't remember much from my comment 6 years ago. But here is the thing, there has always been Jews living in the land of Palestine, and they were living with Arabs, Muslims and Christians, peacefully. And so when the European jews came, there were people living there, but they made up the story that the land was empty. The land was not empty, and Jerusalem is one of the most continuously inhabited city in the world.
There are no parts in the interview in which he states that the "land was empty" in fact multiple times he references Palestinians living in the region prior to 1948@@alaaraad5194
@alaarad, no he is informed because his gvt released records. Ask your dictators to do the same.
Are any Egyptian veterans from 1948 still alive? I’m looking for stories from them or memories from families.
Who is stopping them from telling their stories?
You are right about Palestine and Jerusalem, but completely wrong about the US. The possibility of creating some sort of autonomous Jewish area in the continental US during the 20th century was never remotely feasible. Many Jewish people were refused entry into the US in years before the WW2 and were not particularly welcome even afterwards.
The majority of the students were so rude, seemed incapable of respecting the dynamic of the forum, and asking poorly articulated questions. Most of the students were only interested in pontificating their particular bias,, The women in particular were stunningly inarticulate.
The hostility and disrespect is remarkable.
Not uncommon in the liberal arts departments.
Reading some informations of "population in palestine during Ottoman and British rull" there were very few arabs in israel-palestine.. Also Mark Twain and other travellers mention an astonishing deserted country . Arabs arrives in huge quantities while jews and Brits build infrastractures, Farms and industry as Arabs go wherever there is work
Wow, the guy who picks up on the "unfortunately" ironic comment is such an idiot. He was just sat that waiting for Morris to say ANYTHING in which he could twist into an attack on him. The other comments and the applause that accompanied them... How sad.
Thank you for this debate Professor Benny Morris.
you're everywhere.
"The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead."
-- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963
Compare this talk to the talk Benny gave a couple of months ago at the LSE. The audience just didn't let him talk. They interrupted him all the time. It was horrible to watch
is this some crappy high school or the london school of economics??? these kids need to learn to show respect to people who they disagree with.
Jordanian Prime Minister Zayd ar-Rifa'i told an interviewer in 1975:
Jordan is Palestine. They have never been ruled as two separate states except during the British Mandate. Before 1918 the two banks of the Jordan River were a single state. When they returned to being a single state after 1948, it was a matter of building on the earlier unity. Their families are one, as are their welfare, affiliation, and culture.
Why were they clapping? It was a fairly standard question....
@boliusb Read the book, and pay attention to the fact that many Palestinians helped the HIS and/or Haganah by informing. Also, some Palestinian villages/towns (Tiberias, p. 138) refused to let in Arab militiamen because they had a peaceful existence with their Jewish neighbors. Then you have a direct quote from a Palestinian jeweler "...it were better to have accepted the partition agreement peacefully and not to surrender to the enemy in war." (p. 150)
You are right about coexistence but that was spurned by the Zionist leadership and that viewpoint on a 1947 two state outcome is laced with the benefit of hindsight and ignorance. Zionist leaders had no intention of abiding by the UN's 1947 partition. No better exemplified by taking 60% of the area the UN proposed for the Arab state, including the Jaffa, Lydda and Ramle area, Upper Galilee, some parts of the Negev and a wide strip along the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem road. That was in conjunction with a sweet heart deal with Jordan over the West Bank that following on from planning from around 1964, it too along with Gaza & Golan Heights was taken in the 1967 War. There are even religious Zionists today who have their eyes set on the East Bank and Jordan. Israel has never had an appetite for an Arab or Palestinian state since day one and that greed will ultimately be their downfall.
Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen). Abbas wrote in March 1976 that: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe."
"Palestine is desolate and unlovely... It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... [a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life... We never saw a human being on the whole route... There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country..." - Mark Twain (describing a visit in 1867).
ua-cam.com/video/QUCeQt8zg5o/v-deo.html
toxic audience. amazing that morris even gave them a hearing
its worth comparing this lecture by pro Morris , with the lecture given by pro Chomsky , at about the same time , seems those watching or listening to these two lecture shown in the comments and likes , indicate very different points of view ....
Noam Chomsky: Israel and Palestine (Full Lecture) , 79,703 views •May 6, 2011
Noam Chomsky speaks at Clark University, Worcester, MA (USA). April 12, 2011. Courtesy of Team Good. TVSBSC
1:08:45 I can answer your second question with one sentence. "The Israelis were fighting the Palestinians, not the Christians, White shirts, etc." Also, maybe that guy didn't realize, Morris is ISRAELI....i.e. biased. btw, good job Morris. "Do you want an answer?" i would've just left and said "Apparently, my answer wasn't wanted." people should let someone finish their answer before objecting. unless they are psychic.
is this taking place in a medieval pub?
I’m always amazed by colonizers being hypocritical. The nerve of those British folks. God bless Dr. Morris. Maybe if the Europeans and Arabs didn’t mistreat the Jews for thousands of years they wouldn’t have to do what every group throughout the history of the world has done, take what they wanted.
"take what they wanted",? So you admit the Jews usurped another's land in 1948?
1:24:15 wow. talk about not getting the point of the entire lecture. he kept saying that the public opinion of Israelis was a fear of of genocide, but that it was unfounded. seriously, how did that not sink in, since he made that point not once, but at least 3 times. Also, once again, good response Mr. Morris, "if you think i'm wrong, do some research and see if what i say has any merit." seriously, these people should be asking how they can access and read these sources themselves.
two state solution is the San Remo Conference. The Arabs got two states (Syrian and Iraq) and the Jews got Israel (what is today Israel and Jordan.) There is also a peace treaty between the Jews and Arabs in 1919 which like all peace agreements the Arabs refuse to honor.
(2) For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
How is it in Palestine? Assuming you do live there and can reply after 8 years...really sad for everyone living there...
@@itismethatguy The commenter seems to be quoting something. I don't believe he's Palestinian.
this is the summary of the plight of the palestinian arabs ... they are oppressed and victimised not by Israel but by their Arab leaders and brothers who throughout the years have weaponised them to fight against the Jews
No, there was no lying, only truth. It's hard to hear, i know. Of course, I was refering to how he conducted himself with dignity, while amongst a mob. I suppose my comment was difficult to interpret :)
amazing how hard for these people to accept realities of history, namely that the Arab/Muslim invasion and occupation of North Africa, Israel (or Coele-Syria if you wish) and the Levant was a colonial endeavor which had elements of racism (see what Muslims did to converts to Islam in the Iberian peninsula as just a speck of an example) and fascism... but then its so easy to claim the Jews make matzos out of Balestinian children for Purim.
i'm sorry you feel this way.
Is that Paul McCartney?
Tell me about it. No point in even debating.
@boliusb well, the thing is, if you do read his book (which i am currently doing), you can tell that he is in fact biased. everyone has a bias, no matter what/who they do/are. academics just tend to be able to see their own bias more objectively. no matter what, when people believe something, it always comes out in little ways through actions and/or words.
YehudaLion they've flagged you as spam, you should probably look into it. May have been this compact jam
Holy war, batman
I'm sorry it is this way. I can think of only one solution and both sides have been hurt and have huge heads so they probably wouldn't even consider it.
A Palestinian refugee problem ?. What caused that I wonder ?
They got their asses kicked in 1948 and had to flee
Their defeat in a war they started.Such are the risks of starting a war.
Grab his book then
Zuhair Mohsen in Dutch newspaper Trouw, March 1977:
"The Pal-people does not exist. The creation of a Pal's state is only a means for continuing our struggle against Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a PP, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.
In your first post you claim 700 arrests made, make up your mind buddy :) Irgun numbered 3000 & lehi 500, compared with 35000 in the Haganah alone. Not exactly what one would call mainstream. Irgun had absolutely no link to Hitler. Unlike Haj Amin al-Husseini, who you don't like to talk about.
No he did not say it. You infer from it, because you do not want to associate the origin of the Palestinian ethos of "resistance" to something with negative connotations (for you) that is "Jihad". We are talking about their own period, in a time where Jihad had other understanding of what it was, and even so we do not know fully what it meant for the general Arab population, as Morris himself admitted.
The real meaning of Jihad is a struggle in the way of Allah. The type of Jihad everyone knows about is Lesser Jihad. It is only in defense against oppression and there are many rules for it so that the people doing Jihad themselves do not commit a sin.
Benny morris is actually disgusting when he consider that killing 30000 civilians as "only 30000".
I feel bad for Nigel Ashton, the guy is actually a decent non-racist author.
It’s no surprise Benny has grown tired of the left
That's very likely. We can do the same to them. Anyway I can see all the comments I posted here. These guys can't handle the truth.
Hounding a reknowned Jewish academic as he attempts to give a public lecture on his area of specialization. Remind you of anything?
Jews have a legitimate claim to an ancestral land.
1. Indigenous Jews and Samaritans were the oldest continuous inhabitants of that land. The archeology of the land proves their ancient presence as a consequential nation. Palestinians can not make the same claim.
2. The Jews were a consequential nation in Israel, from Canaanite times, until the Roman occupation and Jewish diaspora in around 136 CE.
3. The Roman Hadrian renamed Israel' Palestine' trying to erase its name and presence in history. So from then on, Palestine was a place name connoting Israel, not an Arab country.
The only old extant maps you find of Palestine are Christian maps for teaching the biblical history of Israel.
4. Israel was occupied in 700CE by the widespread Arab Conquest, an imperial colonizing force. Arab rule gave way to the Imperial Ottoman Empire.
Under the Turks ,Palestine did not exist as a self governing State. Not for 700 years. As such , there was no occupation of an Arab state by Israel.Arabs did not even own land but leased it from the Sultan.! Arabs were self governing only under Sharia law.
In 1917, an empire fell, and in it's place five new countries were formed including Arab Palestine. But it was rejected. So no compromise was possible by the ethnic Arabs. If they wanted a country they had it. Someone gave it up, ever since.
5. Arabs lived in only 47percent of the land which is now Israel. It was uninhabitable land. The Jews lived on 6 percent of the land until 1947, 1948.
They bought that land.
6. Diaspora Jews remained attached to Israel by religion, culture, ethnicity. origins genetics, language and history. They remained a nation of people .
Therefore, Jews have a strong claim to the lands of their ancestors.
7. Palestine was not exclusively Arab. Jews , Samaritans, Christians, Greeks. DRUIZE, Bedouin all of them were Palestine. all of them entitled to political self-determination.
8. It's been said that Arab population birth rate increased dramatically under British health programs. It's also claimed that 2/3rds of the Arabs within Israeli boundaries had migrated there from Lebanon and Syria after the war because living conditions were so bad and because of reconstruction chaos. I'm looking for a primary source on that.
But the figure of 1.2 million is on the high side imo.
And I thought the Brits are civilised.
@boliusb So, in summation, while most palestinians hated and feared Israel coming into being, there were some who co-operated and others who willingly helped the Jews. Academics are people too and everyone is biased about something. Read the book. As far as palestinians that support Israel today, I don't know any. Also, I don't know any palestinians. So that kind of makes it difficult to find out what some of them believe. It's hard to believe that every single one hates Israel though.
Don’t allow anyone to partition your country. Ask the Irish.
"Partition your country"
?
It belongs to the Palestinians. And yes, I agree, it shouldn't be partitioned.
@@red-sv2qfdo you realize that Palestine was not a country ? There were 15 nomads Arabs per square km when the zionists came back in 1881
@@roro-op1ks and yet these arab nomads outnumbered them till britain propose the "partition" plan. go fys
Sheikh zayed theater.....surely this cant be biased against the jewish state ....
53:47 q1
So many of the questions are sloganeering. Ask him questions if there are questions. He is not a politician. It’s kinda ridiculous.
It was a good to hear that lecture, the simple solution is that , why to not open the whole country as it was before 1917, when the country was owned by Muslims and everyone lives as neighbors, if really the Jewish thinking that this land is their ancestors land, so they are welcome to live on it as they lived before, why you should you force the people who living in this country to leave and to change the whole identity to match yours , why not just to live and to share it with others , why this war from the beginning ??
"why not just live and share it with others"
Because the existence of the Palestinians defies the meaning of a "jewish homeland".
and thats not a good thing
Because what you have in mind is an Arab state in which some Jews might be allowed to live at the pleasure of the ruling Muslim Arabs.And the only Jews even eligible for this "privilege" would be those whose ancestors lived there before 1917 or ,perhaps,1882.And the 7 million Jews currently living in Israel will accept that particular solution only after an all out nuclear war-and then only if your side wins it.
What makes you say it was « owned » by Muslims? Because it was conquered by ottoman Empire ? Many jews have been there for thousands of years and when the sionists came back in 1881 there was only 15 nomads Arabs per square km in Palestine (Morris source) and there was absolutely no institutions in Palestine
Very rude audience.Obnoxious and ill-behaved as well.
Palestine is not in the Bible or the Quran. Palestine tydar Phillistina, and is a name of a greek sea people "Philistines " . In the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament is "the land of Israel." The historical land of Israel.
And it's definitely not the state
plenty flys around him but flys do like shit ho ho
Took the Arabs a whole year to start a war? Slackers.
1:12:20
He says that both Jews have a right to their own state : they complain
He says Palestinians simply refuse to consider a 2 state solution: they complain as well 🤣
19:56 That would be an *unofficial* policy.
They don’t need it to be an official policy for all villages cause not all villages needed to be Ethnic cleansed. The ratio is what israel needs for it’s demographic desire, a strong Jewish majority, not absolutely 0% Palestinian population. That isn’t necessary. Because villages were unique there was no official policy on how to deal with a village
An official policy would be very different in terms of effects between Ramla and Dier Yassin and Nazareth
This guy forgets to mention how the UK government took the Palestine country (then called Palestine) and handed it to the Jews who they armed with weapons and then left. You do not have to look far to find first hand video statements of young Palestine people, children at the time, speak of the Jewish state people’s entering Palestine villages and murdering all the adults and children there. They did this to create terror in the minds of other cities and towns and this drove Palestine people out of those areas allowing the Jewish people to steal their homes, their towns and their cities. Palestine people were drove into the unsettled areas where they became refugees. While Palestines tried to rise up at times the Jewish were better armed by the UK and always won. Since the. The Israel government who renamed the country has been given money from the U.S. and European countries which they used to create their government and later their own defence force. The Palestine were never given money by any other government and no longer recognised as even a state. They were forced to rely in their oppressors, Israel to eat and even drink. Water is frightfully scare in Israel. Isreal has done barely enough to allow Palestine to survive in refugee camps which they later fenced, the Gaza Strip for example. Refugee Jews who Israel encouraged to come to isreal from other countries entered the country and would steal the homes of Palestine people who had either resettled their home as refugees or were lucky enough not to be driven out in 1948. To this day Israel settlers continue to steal homes of Palestine with the permission and help of isreal. Isreal is an apartheid state. It continues to murder Palestine people every week, month and year and has done so for decades. It is now killing 300-700 Palestine people a day, a palestine child every 13 minutes. Palestine lost its country because the UK decided it should be given to the Jews because European countries did not want Jewish refugee people to settle in their country. The current Israel government have committed war crimes and amnesty international has referred it to the international criminal court for war crimes it have committed in recent years, let alone recent months. I am not anti-Semite. I hate all peoples who kill innocent civilians in order to steal their land or deny them of their rightful country.
I certainly think that if someone writes something as certainty as you do, then you probably have a lot of knowledge in the subject, so please can you tell who controlled gaza strip and the west bank between 48 and 67?
Also, I don't see the connection between Israel and refugee camps as there were none in Israel. They were in the surrounding countries, who got money from the UN for feeding them and keeping their welfare. So if you want to talk about the oppression of the refugee camps, you blame the wrong country.
Indeed, the British armed the jews. You know why? Because the jews fought on the British side in the ww2, while Arabs...well, they sided by nazis. That's the main reason. They always chose the wrong side, make the wrong decision and not willing to bear consequences for their actions. To this day.
@@anyazubova1518 Hi Anya, I assume by your mis statement of all the facts or half truths in some cases you are clearly connected to Israel in some way. We don’t live in an age where FACTUAL information is hard to obtain and where people are uneducated. In the time of the invasion of Palestine by the WW2 Jews many people could not read, historians to records facts were few and far between. Even 20 years ago information was not as widely available as it is now via the internet. Independant researchers and even media sources are widely available to anyone who can logon to the internet. Not so nowadays. When I first made this above comment Israel had not murdered over 10,000 Palestine people, all unarmed and trapped inside a prison made for them by Israel who controlled every aspect of their live, directly and indirectly. Irrespective of the past (and there is no doubt Israel stole the Palestine country from the arabs by murder and mayhem) here we are 70 years later and the Israeli’s are continuing the slaughter and the Palestine people for one reason only, they are not Jewish. How ironic that a people who were so terribly treated, who had genocide committed upon them by the Nazi’s should turn around and torture another group of people for 70 years so they could have their country and land - and now turn full circle to begin committing genocide on the Palestine people. I will never look at Israel the same again, I have been overwhelmed with the lack of compassion by every government minister and over 90% of the people. Whilst the Israeli government and people rant to the world they must kill the Palestine people “in self defence” it is actually the Israeli people who intend to genocide the entire Palestine people and it is the Palestine People who are in need of defence. I have heard the Israeli government claim they are at war, at war with whom…the unarmed men woman children and even babies of Palestine. Do the Palestine people have fighter jets, do they have tanks, do they have an armed military forced paid for by 4 billion dollars a year from the US. No, through no fault of their own after the Israeli’s stole their country they became refugees and have been subjected to apartheid under a cruel Israeli govt for decades, kept of the verge of starvation and force to live in (in the words of an Israeli govt minister the largest concentration on earth). No matter which way you cut it that’s what the Israeli people and government have become. They are our modern day Hitler and the Palestine people are the Jews of the Second World War. I wonder if they will have the same chance to be liberated as the Jews were in that time. We will see, whilst we all believe and want to hope for justice my life experience has shown it does not always occur and sometime the baddies win, in this case the monstrous evil regime that is the Israeli Government. Shame on you for even trying to defend the murder we are all witnessing on our screens every day, NOTHING, and I mean nothing can excuse what the Israeli government and their army is doing right. Even if the prisoners rose up against the prison guards in a murderous way, Israel claims to be a state government with morals, it has become a state government that has no morals and is murderous and it is dooming its entire population to be stained by their sins for decades to come.
Morris is quite correct it point out that force has been the deciding factor in history.
Today it is up to the working class to organise itself, take power, defeat the capitalist counter revolution and reorganise society.
Israel is a garrison state of the imperialist powers in a region with geostrategic energy reserves and transport routes. It’s fate is tied to that of the imperialist powers themselves. Only the international working class has the potential strength to stop a barbaric catastrophe. What we are seeing in Gaza is just the beginning.
Rubbish
Make Palestinian lawful Israeli citizens like all the rest in Israel. The land is the Lord God's and has always been, it was always lawfully Israels but men got involved because they rejected the Word and the truth.
1 John 2:18 KJV
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 KJV
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 KJV
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
The only problem I have with Benny Morris is he seems quite biased to Israel
Well,he's a citizen of the State of Israel-so naturally he has some sympathy for his own country.
And you have to keep in mind that he works solely from Hebrew and English archives. He doesn't read or speak Arabic, and as he mentions often, Arab archives are unavailable (and Turkish archives are also quite limited).
His works in the 80's were quite revolutionary for the Israeli public with regards to the Palestinian refugees problem.
And that would make him wrong ? You prefer Islamic propaganda ?
@@TheShacharZivand there are unavailable why?
@@roro-op1ks
Because they are dictatorships and don't let scholars delve into their archives.
Islamic propaganda- no, protocols-yes.
I suggest you go listen from Ilan Pappe about what really happened before and after this war. Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian who accumulated his rhetoric from revising and reading countless archives from the british mandate and israel about the history of what happened in palestine since the israeli project started. Don't waste your time listening to propogandas
Pappe is more of an activist than a historian at this point …. Pretty sure he’s admitted this himself. Super anti-Israel and he picks the facts accordingly. If you’re accusing Morris f being a propagandist you’ll have to keep that same energy for Pappe.
It worries me when a historian gets fundamentals wrong. Jordan and Iraq didnt attack the new Israeli state.
those countries also attacked the israelites with the other arab countries and the arabs which were in israel
Which countries attacked Israel? Israel had attacked and expelled nearly 200 Palestinians villages, cities and towns before the first Arab armies entered Palestine on May 16, 1948. Israel attacked first in 48, 56, 67 and 82.
What should be the worlds response to the Hagannah, Irgun and Lehi expelling more than 200 villages, cities and towns?
Zeev Moaz wrote a book called 'Defense of the Hold land'. He analysed nearly all Israel's conflicts or cross border attacks from 48 to 82. In nearly all cases, Israel attacked first. For me, the Zionists European settlers declared war the minute they decided to establish a Jewish majority, sovereignty and expel the indigenous Palestinian population.
He literally said that Jordan focused on taking the West Bank rather than fighting Israel in 1948, you didn't pay attention to the lecture. Btw officially yes they did, both Iraq and Transjordan (it wasn't Jordan yet) participated in the Arab invasion in 1948.
@@deficrypto1234 Incorrect your side started the war by murdering 7 Jews on 2 buses on Nov.30,1947.The pan-Arab state armies intervened once it became clear that the Palestinian Arab militias and Kawukji's pan-Arab Liberation army would be unable to beat the Jews.Suggestion:Go to a library and do some reading before posting.
well that was fun - some really really good questions...answered by the usual (i am from another planet) answers - i am from another universal thus i have no idea about this thing called history that you are talking about....and do not bother trying to explain, i have no interest whatsever
Good to see Benny is still a Israeli Govt stooge and mouthpiece with a selective view of history. This really is tiresome.
What a disgraceful interpretation of history. This guy is delusional.
No you
@@ZombieLincoln666 no you no you no you, grow up, fool.
If you want to discuss then I'm open, otherwise go live in your fantasies.
To people defending Morris, I would suggest that you actually _read_ his interview in Ha'aretz from 2004. He is an extreme right-wing zealot.
+Johny Diala It was written in the context of mass terrorism and how would be terrorist should be kept out. He explains that in this freaking video around 1:09:00-1:10:30.
Right wing "zealouts " don't want to make peace,
Don't want a 2 state-solution,
dont want to give up the West bank, Gaza,
and certainly zealots dont want to give up east Jerusalem and re-divide the city!
Thats basically the exact opposite position of the historic "zealouts" .
college kids are so disrespectful