Does Weight Actually Matter?
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Testing the affect of weight on flat, gradual, and steep terrain. Then discussing the importance it has on race day.
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All I know is that I put my true weight on Zwift, 241 pounds (109 kg) and everyone including runners pass me in Zwift :(
that is so freaking funny...sorry I read it 2 years later.....Buahahahahaha🤣
@@Lastchance2030 lol 😆
@@BWT599 did u lose weight and improve over the 2 years?
@Crypto Tarragon I lost 40 pounds in 2 months on Keto last summer. I then stopped keto around mid summer due to intense camping in a tent at my kids' motocross race weekends. The heat wore me out big time and I couldn't let my kid's food go to waste as we could only bring so much for 3 days. Slowly I began gaining weight back, but I started coaching my kid's hockey and playing with other adults in a league. Everything was going great until I got a severe infection in the area where you sit on a bike. I had to get emergency surgery to cut open the largest abscess the hospital had seen in that area of the body. Recovery was 3 months, every day at a nurse's clinic to pack the wound and then I got infected again, this time on my elbow and my lower back. Ended up gaining about 50 pounds back, but I lost 10 pounds from the heat of walking at my kids' motocross races. I also cleared out all my regular shoes and got into barefoot shoes/boots. Gonna start running in barefoot shoes beginning in August when I get cleared to ride my MTB again.
@@BWT599 funny enough last summer i also lost around 30-35 pounds on keto in 3 months but then i gained everything back, now going to gym myself and restarting keto as when i lost weight i also lost muscle and looked like a skeleton. im 105kg aswell at the moment, good luck!
here’s how I see it: If you’re good enough for it to matter, chances are you’ll be sponsored and so the price won’t matter.
Riley Dao thats smart thing about it i would add if you habe cash laying around or make like a bunch of it just buy the nice bike you want
Also, if your job pays enough per hour, high end bicycle prices are not a concern. That's the dentist way.
@@kitten-inside less stress on the studs as it hangs on the wall for 4 years
@@NormalGuy hey I dont mind. I can buy that from him for half the price.
Damn, i need to get sponsored
Since I'm one of the bigger cyclist now at 89kg and once much heavier, I have all the data and experience with weight and how much time I safe on the climbs. Doing the same climbs in Tenerife, Kanarí and calpe year after year I have found that loosing 4 kg of bodyfat I save just over a minute for a 20min 5-6% climb. I have also found that being lighter I can save more energy, less recovery and less fatique. I'm shit at criterium and bendy road races since I have to go over 1000w out of every turn. My 2020 goal is 86kg, getting personal Best on every segemnts and maybe try out some griterium here in Iceland.
You'd be proud of me Jeff. Hahaha I knocked 3 minutes off of a 10 mile stretch in my neighborhood just by holding the aero-hoods position and losing 15lbs over the last 8 weeks.
Well done!
Congrats man!
How many miles a week were you averaging? Did you make any big changes to your diet? I’m currently trying to lose weight through cycling.
@@JesseDishner Thanks Jesse
@@danieliroh Thanks Daniel
2.5% doesn't sound like much on a single, 1km /100m elevation hill, but it adds up if your ride is 1000+ m elevation.
Or it's a multi-day race, hard-ass group-ride weekend etc.... compound fatigue you're either getting more or you're gettin' a break from some weight savings. I'm definitely not in the weight-weanie club, but when you can save some on durable parts and wheels, and if you can afford it, it's worth it. But not for un-obtanium super-bling new car prices :) . It's nice not to ride bikes too weighted down.
That, or just work on increasing your ftp by 2.5%. let's face it, most of us watching are not at our absolute peak performance, so there's always strength to gain :)
@@filipbronola536 Why not do both?
Now someone is thinking. It's on a long ride when you really feel the benefits.
This just confirms that at 6'3" and 200lbs I'm happy I have no aspirations to do any races.
I'm 6'3" 240 bro so I also won't be racing anytime soon lol
I’m 6’3 and 285lbs. I average 27-28km/hr on my 20-50km rides.
People with deep pockets: Yes, it does, let me buy that 8k Venge
Me, poor: Yes, it does, let me skip 12 meals in a row
Edward Coupe plus the more meals you skip the more expensive bike you can afford!
Exactly! I saw your comment after writing my own other comment, which kind of expressed the same view. Cheaper to just lose your own weight than to buy a lighter bike!
what the hell you eating dude? 8k from 12 meals? More like 1000 of mine !
Me, also poor: just cries internally
Me fat&broke: whatever!
My favorite UA-camr. Not sure if I like these experiments more than race analysis. Both are thoughtful/Insightful. More please.
No need to do any testing for acceleration vs weight. It's just f=ma, as you've said. 150lb takes 3% more energy to accelerate than 145lb. However, as you accelerate, the drag increases. So if the goal is to accelerate the the same speed, not only will it take more energy to accelerate the extra weight, but also more energy to due to the extra time you'll spend in the wind while accelerating up to speed!
yup. @NorCal Cycling increased weight would give you a gain in coasting (momentum) though once you're up to speed. p = mv. ...I miss my Physics classes! :(
However you also burn 3% less of a match each acceleration. For argument sake lets say 100 corners followed by an acceleration at the end of the race id assume the person who saved the 3% each time would be more fresh for a sprint.
Damn, did i calculate this correctly: I weigh 110kg, my target weight is 75kg, so currently it takes me 68% more effort to push my fat ass up a hill compared to my target weight? 68% seems a tad to high? Did i reverse the percentage; should it be 32% more effort?
@@Jeppelelle it take you 45kg more to get uphill, these calculs are bullshit
@@Jeppelelle Assume a 10 kg bike... 85 kg is 71% of 120 kg. 120 kg is 141% of 85 kg. It takes you 41% more power to get up a hill or accelerate out of a corner.
No joke I once passed out on the side of the road half way up Redwood Gulch. I was rolling along pushing hard, then another cyclist came past me just a little quicker and I was like “I wonder if I can hang onto his wheel”. The answer was “no, I absolutely can’t” and so after a few minutes I backed off, a little too much, and long story short a gravel-covered ditch is a surprisingly cozy place to wake up from an unplanned nap.
I’ve seen a bunch of video like this but you’re the only one I’ve seen to focus on consistent power output. Thanks for all the content!
When you’ve lost all the weight on your body that you could possibly lose the only place you’re going to save some time is through spending that higher price. I would need to get down to 180 pounds or less to start worrying about saving weight on the bike. Last year I seen a great increase in speed with losing weight and changing my position. Saved about 30 pounds on the bike by losing weight. 🍻
How about increased frame stiffness at higher price? Maybe more important for heavier riders (like me)..
Nice job, man!
@@Gijzzzzzzzzz No, frame stiffness doesn't matter the way you think it does. It is a performance improvement, that is all. I will tell any rider who is overweight that a more forgiving steel frame will be much better than carbon or aluminum.
Steve, most recreational cyclists won't benefit from an aero bike. If you aren't racing, an aero bike is more of just a fashion statement. For most of us an endurance bike, or lightweight all arounder like an Emonda or TCR will work for pretty much all our needs. Even modern areo bikes aren't THAT stiff, they have engineered compliance into the frames now to improve ride quality, some have gone to great lengths to do that like the iso-link seat stays on the current version of the Madone.
@@mrvwbug4423 both you and Steve I think are generally right, but I think are missing what's being meant by an aero bike being "stiff." I think you both are referring to it being vertically stiff whereas what's being actually referenced is lateral stiffness. That's one of the most important differentiators of an entry level carbon bike to a high end one. Higher quality carbon allows for more specificity in weaves allowing you to get vertical compliance with stellar lateral stiffness. What Steve is getting at then makes more sense: that lateral strength exists as it does to help those with higher power outputs translate more of it to the road. It's a very real benefit. But to even realize that benefit (and it's value for the price tag), you need to actually be strong enough. Like, Cat2+ strong enough. Otherwise you're just riding a bike that would be just as efficient for $5k less. All the other aero and compliance factors built in are add-ons IMO as a side benefit of better carbon tech.
I love how you keep it short. Try making one on clothes
I think it would be cool to try a test with relatively loose fitting "club fit" kit with a modern race cut. maybe throw in shoe covers and see what benefit a couple hundred bucks can buy you. I just wish I didn't give away/trash all my old club fit jerseys!
@@NorCalCycling Specialized did some neat wind tunnel tests to see if shaved legs are faster: ua-cam.com/video/DZnrE17Jg3I/v-deo.html
@@NorCalCycling GCN already did a video on this. It's estimated that you save as much as 10-15 watts using a full skin suit vs a regular loose fitting kit.
@@Mrvoodoochild1 I love GCN, but their tests are about as suspect and sponsored as it gets.
I’ve always wondered what the aerodynamic differences are between a $300 skin suit and a cheap but tight fitting jersey
That was cool and really interesting. I think the time saved for the lighter bike was huge! Do that up a climb on a Grand tour and it’s minutes saved, huge time gaps. For the amateur, you may get to the end of a road race a little bit fresher, 2.50% quicker and I’d take that all day long!
2.5%-3% is pretty good I think. Add that up over a long climbing ride or a long climb, it turns from seconds to minutes. It’s like going from 290w to 298-300w. I’d take that. Nice video
Cycling is the only sport where small and lightweight riders like myself have an advantage :) ... The other aspect is having the ownership mindset of a bike that would be enjoyable to ride and effectively get me out the house.
timtimzi ni it depends, on a hill/climb course small and light has the advantage. On flat/straight courses heavier weight has the advantage.
*laughs in track*
As a soon to be physicist and avid number cruncher, I really love this sort of stuff with comparing data and such! Please keep them coming when you think of some neat way to test things
For the acceleration tests, do 5 x 15 second sprints, along the same road. One time with the bottles and one time without. Look at the average change in speed between the two sets. That should at least give you an idea.
It will work well if you have a speed sensor. Relying on a bike computer GPS power may result in some surprises. Therefore using the distance traveled as a metric is a more robust test design.
"Emergency stop" after each 15sec ? With each starting from a standstill you should get a good difference (if there is one).
Good suggestions in the earlier comments. My thinking after reading them, using my physics training plus my cycling knowledge follows ...
Find a course that has 5 tight corners in a reasonably short section of flat road, 1 to 1.5 km. A loop would be best so that the test can be longer. The corners limit your speed as you go through them. Enter the braking zone of the first corner at your target speed, say 40 kph, brake for the corner, accelerate back to your target speed as quickly as possible. Repeat for every corner.
The important measurements are your total time for the course, and the total energy expended. The first is given by a stop watch, Strava, etc. The second will be available from your power meter software, or Strava.
Of course we predict that with 5% extra weight you will be slower, *and* use more energy.
The corners are important, because they act as a marker and speed control. you will of course have tested the course and know the fastest line through the corners, so it is important that they be tight.
Hey, really love your videos. I'm a big fan but still a noob to the sport. My request is from all the beginners right here, can you make a video discussing theory. I know that when i started watching your videos i didn't know what you meant by drafting and taking the best line. I think that a video targeted for beginners would be very beneficial. Thank you for the good work. Keep it up and hope we can see you again on the track. Peace.
if you want to race, there are a number of really good videos on crit racing on utube but if you are more interested in longer road racing, join a local club. Track racing normally comes with intro classes..
Really interesting. GCN did something similar last year with almost identical results. For me, I have a carbon road bike with 105, but upgraded the wheels to reduce 1lb.
When you’re talking about professional racing (even domestic), 2.5% is a massive number.
I'm 210lbs. I want to see a video where you're climbing up Redwood Gulch with weighted vests. :)
Nice experimental approach. I'd recommend adopting an energetic perspective to study accelerations: calculate the total energy of the rider+bike system. Don't forget that changing the mass of the wheels has a 4x greater change in system energy than an equivalent change in the frame's mass, due to the additional rotational energy of 2 wheels. Increasing energy on a flat course (i.e. accelerating) by X Joules in T seconds requires an average power of X/T Watts. Drag is trickier to think about, but you could estimate the power required to overcome drag at any speed (a function of speed cubed, I think).
You could try accelerating on flat ground for 10-20 seconds. Then relate instantaneous power to change in speed. Just pick a section of road where the wind is consistent, and repeat accelerations from roughly the same starting speed. The speed vs power curve should be quadratic, and increasing mass should shift the curve upward (more power). Adding a unit mass to the wheels should shift the curve upward more than the same mass added to the frame. Repeat each condition 10-30 times - fatigue doesn't matter, and that would give you a distribution of possible results. I think this will work, but haven't reflected on it. Take with a grain of salt.
This is my experience for the last 4 years! It's not just the consistent climbs are much harder, but every small change in the terrain altitude, corners, urban and pedestrian-caused stops add to the acceleration problem. Being overweight also physically makes me less aero, but that's less of an issue comparing to bouncing between Z1 and Z5.
Almost all of my casual rides are themed like that and get labeled as either VO₂ Max or Threshold.
And the ebike rides help with smoother rides which are almost always marked with Base and Tempo as primary benefit.
welcome to triathlon. where you spend hundreds to save weight on your equipment then carry a gallon of water with you.
I would curious to see comparation between standard kit vs aero helm + aero jersey+aero bib shorts (not aero suit) at 35-40-45 km/h
A more accurate test protocol would be to do both rides with bottles on the bike but with empty bottles one of the times. This time you introduced an unnecessary “unknown” in the form of a difference in drag due to bottles vs no bottles.
Thanks for all the nice content!
Hey guys, I'm an amateur cyclist and my weight was 56kg on my peak for and now due to this Fu.... K pandemic 62kg. On the climbs and only by feel and time it's way way harder since my ftp dropped and my arse weights more, but on the flats my times improved. With 56kg I always struggled to maintain the speed and with headwind its a nightmare. Thank you for you videos and ride safe
A better test would be full vs empty bottles instead of no bottles. The bottles themselves add some aero drag on the frame.
Some thoughts on this - if weight matters accelerating then it makes sense that it also matter when decelerating. Lighter rides can leave it later as their weight is easier to stop - maybe disc brakes make this negligible??
I think weight also matters in wind. A lighter rider has to work proportionally harder to overcome head wind than a heavier rider.
I don't know if there's a term for it but lighter riders also have a harder time on rough road surface - the bike isn't in contact with the road as much as it is for a heavier rider. This makes it harder to keep the power on.
And lighter riders have to work harder on a descent. Less momentum and so have to push more power. A decent with a headwind is a light riders worst nightmare!
At 6'6" and 210 lbs. (198 cm and 94 kg) I understand that size and weight are huge when climbing. Having the best bike (i don't have it) is a factor but not as much as your frontal area and mass. I'm relatively new to road biking and bought the $2,000 Giant Defy Advanced1. It is full Ultegra and upgraded to carbon saddle, handlebars and wheels. I like the bike but I can tell the difference when riding a premium bike.
I was riding a really heavy bike with others on much more expensive bikes, and your point about acceleration @ 6:30 was exactly what came to my mind, I would love to see this tested. So here goes on my suggestions to test this.
Run at a fixed (near) peak power output(watts) acceleration to a set speed, from one telephone pole and then coast (zero watts) to the next (or second) telephone pole, then accelerate again at the same fixed output to the same speed, then coast again. Repeat for 30km...
Then compare the respective accumulated power output, and the relative increases in peak power. In short do a hiit piece. I am not sure what values of speed, or wattage outputs would be reasonable for you, but it would have to be sustainable for the course.
Great video. For further analysis it would have been interesting to do runs on the heavier set up with increasing power until you managed the same time as the lighter set up.
Then we could see what the $10,000 equivalent "cost of fitness" would have been.
This! Exactly this! How come theres a million of these "hill climb weight" videos and no one ever thinks to make up the watts between the bikes to show the power savings of the lighter bike?
the next vid "DOES SIZE MATTER"
Always get a proper fit to prevent telescope worth of spacers.
@@benjaminwolf9801 *cries in giant propel MAMIL version*
Lol
loving your videos, recently found your channel and have been addicted to them, i would love to see a video on comparing clipless shoes vs normal flat shoes as it would be interesting to see how you would perform on both hills and flat out sprints, thanks :)
Great video, On the acceleration test how about trying a 250 meter sprint/acceleration flat terrain test with and without the weight. Maybe have someone pace you to 22 - 25ish mph and then sprint for 250 meters (typical track sprint length). Might be cool to see if there are any significan't differences.
I'd be interested to see the difference in the BPM figures, perceived exertion, muscle fatigue for those stretches. I'd wonder if those differences would count even more over a 100 mile ride.
i mean hes doing the same power so i wont expect a difference in bpm
Thanks for the effort. I did aerodynamic drag test on my bike with different equipments and hand positions for a class project in past. These tests include real conditions. Discovering them by yourself is just inspritional. You can definitely multiply comparison videos like you did in this.
It's really neat how you present your performance statistics, I'm working on designing a couple of Recumbent Tricycle / Quads and being able to see you body vitals and your stats, it's prety informative... THANKS FOR SHARING
My bike went from 5.69kg to 7.1kg cause I switched to disc version of the same bike.
At the same time I lost around 5kg off of my body.
Getting PR's everywhere. Best of both worlds :D
Discs are absolutely worth the extra weight imo.
That's insane. What's the bike?
timtimzi ni s-works tarmac sl6 ultralight. i had a lot of trick parts on it. selle italia c-59, extralite rings, stem, caden tubular wheels, speedplay titanium versions etc. the disc version is completely stock and even has a duraace cranks instead of the sworks one so much heavier 😊
Gurk E only pros need to care about weight, they are skilled enough to not need disc brakes and when they weigh 60kg it does kinda matter. But average joe who weighs 80-100kg already has 5x the weight in their guts than a disc brake and they won’t be as skilled with braking so it would be better. Also no one is racing domestically or internationally and at a local level technique is the biggest improvement for speed.
Myles is White I weigh 63 kg’s. just cause I lost a bit of weight don’t assume I’m 80-100kg. Pros care about weight, sure. and minimum they can hit is 6.8kg. disc bikes of today can be 6.8kg no problem. Watch 2019 TdF stage 19. Watch Julian Alaphilippe descending on his discs versus rim brake pros and tell me it doesn’t matter.
Very good video. I've said many times that, since I have a good 10 pounds of extra flab around my waist, it'd be far cheaper for me just to lose that weight (or even half of it) before spending money on a lighter bike. If and when I ever get as lean as I want to be and if I still need to go faster (and have the cash to burn), I'll look into upgrading to a lighter bike.
LOVE this stuff! Keep it up. I would like to see how fast you can accelerate (sprint) from point A to point B with different wheel sets. Maybe do a couple 15-35mph pulls. Also, great job keeping the content coming in these times, thanks!
Love your videos - this was a fair assessment. I thought one thing you were going to say when you said "one thing I didn't mention..." was not f = m x a but aerodynamics. Surely the more expensive bike is marketed as being 'more aerodynamic'? This would naturally lead to a discussion about wheels... Deeper section / lighter wheels seem to make the biggest difference on the flats than the bike itself due to rotating weight and aerodynamics.
Mark out a technical circuit in a car park or use your crit course, the twisty part. Ride to a speed target, don't exceed a cruising speed. Measure the average differences in braking and acceleration energy for all he corners for a long run of laps. Don't worry about power spikes, analyse all the Accel and decel event energies for heavy/light.
One thing you coldve done was keep the bottles in for the ligthweight test but make them empty. This is a small detail, but its best to keep eveyrhting as constant as possible. THe removal of the bottles affects aerodynamics a little.
What about wheel and rotational weight differences? Light wheels, crank, pedals, cassette, etc. Everything the body needs to mechanically turn in order to constantly re-accelerate. Both in climbing and in criterium situations. 👍
As a brick house that likes cycling, the drag is enormous at speed, but depending on conditions and your level of fitness at that particular weight, it may only be drag that really matters.
But energy conservation up a hill will tell you that you have to put down more power to go faster at greater weight.
This was really interesting for TT riding and knowing what water/snack weight does to your time. Ultimately I would say stocking up a full bike and stopping less at refill checkpoints is far more Effective than stocking light and potentially stopping more. Especially if its a flat course.
To test the effect of wight in a cruit do It on a loop with a lot of corners and do 800w out of every corner and hold 300 watt after this and keep the NP the same.
Accelerations: try this one: same weights (actually weight matters where this will be positioned, i.e. on a downtube or at the level of the seat) and then from standing (holding to a mast or fence) accelerate to finish 200m or how fast you reach certain speed (e.g. 50kmph).
Would be interesting test.
strap dumbbells to the bottle cages!
Great video, answered my curiosity without a lot of padding. Also was the first time I've encountered a proper real time wattage output in a video, was enlightening.
I think weight matters depending on the type of racing you do. If you do crits and flat road races than a little weight isn't a bad thing as it helps you maintain a certain amount of muscle. I believe it was Dan Holloway that mentioned something to the effect of only doing crits doesn't require as much weight loss
I tried calculating it: and you are absolutely right that the weight is direct proportional to the Force needed . 220 pounds (50kg) needs exactly double the Force to 110 pounds (100kg).
The gradient can be estimated by a quadratic function: -0.019x²+5.39x-6.14 ( in the relevant range it is nearly linear because the 0.019 makes very little difference for the 40%).
Meaning: at 0% you need 1.7N just for the rolling resistance.
at 5%= 26N, 10% = 50N, 15% = 74N, 20% = 98N, 25% = 121N, 30% = 143N, 50% = 221N, 100% = 348N
Reason for it not beeing linear is that the rolling resistance decreases as the gradient increases because you have less force vertical to the ground.
I don't know the rotational mass of the wheels so I guessed them to be 2.2lb (1kg) total. There they take up 1% of the total force needed to accelerate. at 4.4lb it would be 2.7%.
to accelarete with 3m/s² at 160lb (73kg) it takes 225 N.
I am pretty unsure about the rotational mass calculation so it would be interesting to see some real data.
I'd start from a standstill (less wind resistance) and accelerate to 15-20 mph. Do that with some very heavy wheels (maybe even a mountainbike with big tires though with a road profile) and very light wheels. Take the more weight from the mountainbike in bottles to the road bike with ligth tires.
I always love the very sober nature of your content.
From my own humble perspective: I would never pretend to have any sort of grasp on the math behind all this, but what I do know, from first hand experience, is that I ride (and climb) with greater ease when my body weight is down, regardless of any other gravitational forces. I can ride with a backpack full of gym clothes, food, and other items, and all the extra weight (and any increased aerodynamic drag) that that incurs, while hitting some of my best Strava numbers, IF my body weight is down. Trade those 5 to 7 lbs of backpack weight with body weight, and do the same rides without the backpack, and my numbers won't be as good. More importantly (for me), the "sensation" of riding won't be as good when my body weight has increased. But when I weigh less on the scale, I can harness external weight in a backpack (or an extra water bottle), and still feel great on the bike. So there's more than just "downward gravitational" factors in play. I would also think that rotational weight differences (from wheels, tires, etc) would be more significant than just water-bottle or frame weight?
To put it another way: At 6' tall, if I tip the scales at 155 lbs, I will ride better than the 160 lbs version of me, whether I'm carrying an extra 5 to 7 lbs in a backpack or not. Even more dramatically: the 145 lbs version of me, with a VERY full backpack and on an older steel frame, will smoke the 155 lbs version of me even without the back pack and on a much lighter carbon frame. I've experienced this a number of times over the past few years to know, with confidence, that this is a certainty. A loss in body weight seems to be exponentially more significant, in terms of performance benefits, than decreasing the weight of the bike itself or anything attached to it, including anything that may be attached to the rider. Thoughts?
yes. My thought is that perhaps you are lighter because you've been training harder. And that's the real difference, your lightness is coincidental and what's really happening is that you're in better shape.
Your backpack probably isn't hooked up to your heart and lungs. Up to a point there is a metabolic advantage in having less tissue to support = less cardiovascular effort to push the same weight with a backpack on.
The acceleration issue may seem simple given the linear dependency between the force and mass, but there are a few factors that still make the test a good idea. Firstly, the slower you go, the longer you are subjected to forces not directly related to the mass (wind resistance and rolling resistance). Secondly, while coasting is better when you are heavier, cornering will require a larger radius, hence more distance traveled. Thirdly, the higher the speed (and/or true headwind speed), the more your effort will need to be with the extra weight. So... To do the crit test (aside from the actual crit with 4.5 pounds of extra weight), this is what I am thinking would be a good model:
Do a series of 10-second sprints with 20-second of coasting in between. Make the series as long as you can withstand without dropping your sprint power more than 10%. Record the distance traveled. Recover and do the same thing without the extra weight. Record the distance traveled and compare. The reason to use the distance vs average speed is that, unless you have a speed sensor, a GPS as a speedometer is not reliable enough. The distance, however, is tangible. It can be verified.
If you want to go real nerdy with numbers and feel particularly masochistic, repeat the test at a higher average speed to see the difference between, say, 35 and 45 km/h.
The last thing to take into account is fatigue. More weight = more power needed to accelerate = more fatigue = less power produced. Another masochistic test is to do a series of sprints to exhaustion with and without the extra weight and then compare not only the average speed and distance traveled, but also the time.
I would love to see like hundred metre sprints or something with the same watts with the different weight . great vid
I doubt it's feasable though, sprint watts seem extremely hard to control precisely enough (>1%) in order to have valid results
@@TheDidiwolf34 true would be difficult to do but still really interesting to see am attempt at it
Love the videos. How about doing a slow roll start say at 5 kph and then accelerate to 50 kph for the 2 different weights. If you alternate the weight between each run, and do 10 of each a total of 20 you should be able to get some good indicative data.
Doing 20 times 50 kph is kindoff crazy
Ok, 5 and 5, total 10 efforts.
Hey Jeff, you should redo this test with empty and full bottles. A small portion of your time saving was probably made up by the aero gain from having no bottles in the cage. Love your videos.
Actually empty bottles are more aero but the difference is pretty much negligible
The way to test the weight advantage would be to mark out a set distance say 0.5km, rolling start at 5-10 km/h (be consistent) and sprint as soon as the course starts. From that you will get to total time of the segment, the top speed reached but also the rate at which you gained speed.
I love the data you use in your video. That 41mph sprint is another level
I have the Tarmac Pro and a friend has a Cannondale System Six Sram Red eTap , two of the best bikes I've ever ridden and well worth the cash . The Sram is so quite you hear more tyre noise ,the shifting is right on I use the "compensating" feature . I have an Endurance bike, now a light weight bike next will be an Aero ,that cannondale is sweet . If you can afford one get one , you'll never regret it , seriously .
Yes. Biggest power zapper is that change in speed and catching or bridging. If you can reduce the weight of your bike (especially the wheels) without sacrificing aero, it will take less out of you turning up the speed. Also remember it isn't just the big change up, it's also every time you change up gear. You have a preferred cadence and when you change up gear your cadence drops into the slightly less economical cadence, so you put a little more energy into increasing your speed until you get back into your preferred cadence.. Again, this take energy as you are accelerating mass... Eating away your power reserves.. Little, little, little... Invest in lightweight aero wheels, go light on tyres, lightweight shoes and clips, handlebars... Then see how much better you perform around the guys you usually play with.. But keep your training wheels and tyres heavy!!
Great content as always!
I would say one on clothing; skin suit, normal 2 piece kit and street clothes (shorts and a tee shirt)
I'd be interested in a more direct comparison between bikes. The problem with measuring weight alone is that it doesn't take into account the material change from aluminum to carbon. Not only will you see more performance gains in acceleration from mass loss, but also stiffness.
I'd like to see you do these types of experiments with your teammates with more representative bikes, and then swap bikes for multiple trials. That way your get a larger sample size.
I’ve been using a $300 Vilano road bike that’s around 25 lbs. about to upgrade to a trek Emonda and I can’t wait! Will be a 10 lb difference. Maybe more. Should be quite substantial 😁
Very good. If you can afford the bike and the maintenance and parts replacement, why not spend whatever you can. I don't have the budget to go dream machines.
On a largely flat route, that I'd do on a 2007 Canondale System 6 and first generation Specialized Tricross, I was surprised to find times were identical (agrees with your finding). Even 25% 1km climbs are most dependent on gear range - which modern 11, 12, 23 cog systems overcome.
The biggest difference for my routes was on rough, poorly maintained, tarmac side roads through wooded areas. The ride comfort of the Canondale with 160 psi 23c Vittoria Diamante Pro tyres (came with bike, shredded after 300 miles) was vastly better and faster over distances that induced fatigue than anything I'd ever ridden before or since. The carbon-aluminium frame, tyres and wheels gave a dream like ride that I could do forever (actually, until tyres died). So, rolling resistance is a factor.
I do not ride crits or anything offical. I have a road bike with parts on it. Either way I love these videos. Not only is it interesting its very very healthy for my finances.
For acceleration experiment I think it would be interesting to look at time to achieve a speed. Find a flattish circuit. Rolling start at consistent speed for each run (ex. 20 mph). Then sprint to a repeatedly achievable speed maybe somewhere around 30. Add weight and repeat. Would probably want to use a wheel speed sensor to get speed vs gps for such short efforts. Compare time to reach speed.
So hard to repeat sprints at identical power and position
Maybe once crit racing is back, you could race Alviso one week on a heavier bike and then compare the data to some of your past Alviso crits. It would be interesting to see how the power distribution might change, and also subjectively how it felt to you.
Is this a frenemy Brian burner account?
Suggestion for testing the effect of bicycle weight on acceleration. You could do a rolling start from 5 mph and measure the time it takes to accelerate to say 20 mph in the same gear. Choose a flat road if possible. Repeat by cycling in the opposite direction to eliminate the effect of gradient and wind. Repeat the test 3 times on each bicycle.
Measuring exactly 5 and 20mph is hard, same gear doesn't mean same power
@@NorCalCycling Suggest you get the time from a video which records the speedometer. Determine the time from the frame you see the speedometer registers 5 mph; similarly at 20 mph. Keeping the same gear is to control the variability introduced by shifting.
@@NorCalCycling If you have a power meter, keeping power constant is a good idea.
Redwood Gulch is relatively short but is a ball buster. Would prefer to see more than 5 lbs added though but I guess the point was to compare expensive vs cheaper bikes. As someone who swings between 180 and 195 lbs, that 15 lb difference on Redwood Gulch is drastic.
One way to test acceleration could be to choose a short, flat, fixed length of road, roll into it at the same speed every time (say 20 mph) in the same gear, and try to maintain as steady of a wattage spike as possible for that segment (say, 800w). Repeat a bunch of times both with and without bottles. You could also do everything I said above, but time how long it takes to smoothly accelerate from 20 mph to 30 mph, rather than fixing the distance.
To determine the impact of weight on crit racing, you could essentially do a drag race between the bike with no bottles and the bike with bottles. Determine the time difference between the two bikes to get to a specific speed (something fast enough where you can see a difference). You could then see how much power you put out and given the number of accelerations you do in a crit, expand the individual effort out over the course of the race to see a total time savings at XXX power.
I got back into road bikes last year and was 77kg. After lots of miles I'm fitter and 64Kg. Me and the bike weighing in at 71.5Kg combined. So the hills are easier as you say at my weight a light bike proportionally does make a difference.
2.5+% time improvement on 2.5% weight loss is a lot in my book (good correlation). would love the clothes test at higher speeds (Ie 400+ watts and see the speed delta riding same position)
Nice vid! I'm liking the data side of racing, I'm also a stats nerd for baseball as well. But this topic really motivates me to keep chipping away at my weight!
Enjoyed your no-nonsense comparison and impressed how you were able to find ERG mode out on the open roads - keeping your power efforts so consistent between runs.
Have you had the chance to view and offer your take on GCN's recent video with the former formula 1 engineer espousing the aero benefits and deriding the performance benefits of lighter weight, even in crit scenarios?
I'm just happy being able to ride on the road, with my Jamis Renegade S3
Do an acceration test. Find a long flat section of road you can mark off 100 yards. Start a ways before the 100 marked section. Pick a good speed for you to enter this section, let's say 25mph. Hold that for the first 50 yards (marke with cone). Then when you hit 50 yards accerate all the way to the 100 yard mark. Do this 'at different weights' (may I suggest 10lbs increments). Time yourself from the 50 yard to 100 yard mark. Hard part will be getting the acceration effort consistent. It will be crucial to pick a proper entry speed, and acceration target, and distance. (Maybe you only need to accerate for 20 yards). I think you get the jist.
Accelerations would need to be very precise and so would the initial 25mph. I don't have a way of making either nearly precise enough
@@NorCalCycling Then call your local college science department and see if they can hook you up with an experiment that is 'off the bike'.
It's not just about the weight when comparing the entry level bike vs the flagship model. You're also getting better bearings in everything. Lighter and stiffer wheels which makes a much larger difference than saving a pound or two from the frame because it is rotational mass. All the components are going to be better, so smoother shifting, electronic, better feel, etc. The frame will in most cases be stiffer as well. There are a lot of factors to consider besides weight when looking at the price difference of each bike. As always, great videos! I think I've watching almost every upload so far !
still only 2% better lol Only useful in a race
Idea on accelerations for crits: test the effect of weight in a gokart track or equivalent and aim for a lap time. Then check the av. wattage per lap when you get your lap times consistent!
Suggestion:
Heavy rider vs light rider coasting.
Who gets to the bottom first and by how much?
Does the heavier bike have an advantage downhill?
Kinda wish u had the bottles on all the time, just without water in them (for aero reasons). But im a nerd 😃 good video!
One of the critical issue is the bike itself, as a bike with aero frame does help you if you add say 10 extra lbs.
However going from my 9 kg carbon to my daily 15 kg alloy road bike with only a 2 x7 drivetrain we are talking several minutes in difference on a short 20 km course at 175 lbs body weight. Also the climate is critical as you are not getting anywhere 45 km hr in Southern Ontario with high air pressure, humid and heavy winds from everywhere. Most cyclists here are even cross chaining with their big rings that is how crazy the air pressure and winds are.
I love how most of the comments are in metric. Please do at least dual measures, like in your race videos.
Very valuable content. My bike buddy is exactly the same weight as me (76 kg), my bike is 7 kg, his is almost 9 kg, but he's better on hills, I'm better on flats. Different physiology, different muscular composition.
Love the opening quote.... I know it matters for me. Same loop, same bike. Gained 30lb COVID fat and down 1.5mph average over same loop. I'm sure not putting out 300w. probably even less difference at 2/3 the wattage
It really depends on fitness. On a fee miles hill climb I passed a carbon rider who started the climb with our group. After a couple miles it wasn't really steep but he slowed down and we finished together. I was 245 pounds at the time. He was about 160 pounds. On a flat a c level carbon rider was about 50 pounds lighter because I lost some weight during covid could not drop me. I fell back because he became reckless on the sidewalk and did some goo. It's just he passed me with an attitude and couldn't get away. He was much lighter than I am.
My current, second-hand, 6.8kg rim-braked Cervelo S5 was significantly less $$ than new. You do not need to spend that much money to get a good, aero, low weight race bike. I'd love to make me lighter as well, but that's proving far more challenging than hunting around for some lighter components and putting them together.
People keep saying 2,5 % for 8k, but it's worth noting that you're getting more than just a straight weight reduction on that upgrade. Better aerodynamics, quicker gearing, slightly better brakes etc.
Wife bought me a new Bianchi Sprint Disc Ultegra for my birthday. Sure I would have liked a Spec Tarmac SL6/SL7, Bianchi Oltre and a whole host of other bikes, but this is the one she liked. Of course it went on a diet from its almost 9kg weight, but I would suspect that all the bikes listed would only be marginally faster for thousands more. I'm not racing, so as long as I like the bike and like riding it and it gets me out on the bike...I feel like that's what matters most.
Great video thanks! I'd love to see a video that shows how real-world weight loss affects performance. It's a good time of year to look at that as many cyclists (myself being one of them!) have put on 10lbs - 20lbs over the winter and are keen to drop the weight as the summer season kicks in!
I really like your contents guys! Keep the quality up! Cheers from Italy!💪😉
Only pros need to care about weight, they are skilled enough to not need disc brakes and when they weigh 60kg it does kinda matter. But average joe who weighs 80-100kg already has 5x the weight in their guts than a disc brake and they won’t be as skilled with braking so it would be better. Also no one is racing domestically or internationally and at a local level technique is the biggest improvement for speed.
Another great vid. Thanks! Loving the channel from the Scottish Highlands!
An idea for a video could be - how much does holding the drops gain you? Into a headwind or going 30mph+ if course it's very helpful. But 20-30mph is it that effective? Any tips for making holding the position easier? It's not comfortable! If I don't hold it, am I losing 1% speed or 7%?
On the sprint subject, how about trying lightweight climbing wheels vs deep dish pizza plates for sprints? Maybe do a set of intervals that mimics responding to attacks in a crit, like 30 or 60 seconds at big watts with 4 min recovery in between, and then examine the total distance covered and peak speeds to figure out a winner.
Oh man! How much I miss those roads. I'm from Puerto Rico and there was a favorite road of mine which was only 15km up hill, but it was always a nice weather, no cars, very comfortable ride. Now I live in Florida and the highest hill is a bridge, LOL!!! If you want to look it up on the map it was road #15, from a town called Guayama (South coast of PR) to another one called Cayey (Center of PR). It wasn't that high, like 2000ft to 2500ft in elevation, but it was really nice!
nice video, its a fun alternative to your ussual crits. Keep it up and i would love to hear your thougts on stability and strength-work, off the bike i mean. Are you doing anything like that, would you recommend it? And maybe you could talk about your sprinttraining at some point?
Firstly, I rly love the videos! Here's a thought, perhaps you could compare the power profiles of your races before and after you got the venge? Just thought it'd be interesting to see if there's a noticeable difference in Net Power, Average Power and the Overall speed with a light bike (felt disc) and the Aero bike (venge disc)
It's easy to test : just do your next Crit with 5 extra unnecessary pounds !
I also find your conclusions biased on: the difference between the middle range bike and the top bike : it can't be reduced to weight : rigidity also adds a significant advantage for a rider like you, capable of sending >1000watts accelerations,
Thanks for the videos. Really love them
20 seconds may not seem like a huge difference on a climb BUT trying making up a 20 second deficit in a race or on a competitive group ride once the climb is over. Or think about the fact that for the same power you could be 20 seconds up the road on a lighter bike after a 15 minute climb. To the competitive cyclist, that's huge, IMO. Awesome content here!