I had electroshock therapy from October to November, 2010. It left me feeling a little foggy after each session, but I feel no lingering effects one year later. I am not free and clear of depression, but I was able to move out on my own, and hold down a job. I've made a few casual friends as well. Overall my mood improved measurably, I still feel down, but not in the deep and dark pit of despair I was in previously.
Did ECT give you the motivation to get back to work, school, hobbies, etc? Do you require maintenance ECT treatments or maintenance medication? Thanks for any info.
There are trials for psilocybin mushrooms ongoing now. I have suffered from debilitating major depressive disorder pretty much my entire life. a few years ago I was given some shrooms. My depression not only went away but it stayed away for 6 months. ECT is horrible. It disrupts the delicate workings of the brain
I just turned 42 this month, and have been going through anxiety and depression for years. Its currently treatment resistant. And I am being referred to ECT. This speech gave me some hope. If this man went through so much and says after ECT he came back better I have to put some faith in it too.
I currently get it every four weeks. I dont know why everyone hates on ECT. It seems trendy to do so, and I get people telling me its horrible when they havent had it.
I’m 26. I don’t want to suffer like I have been the rest of my life. It’s pushing a decade now that I’ve felt utterly suffocated. This has given me some hope.
Two years ago I had 12 ECT treatments, and I only had memory loss while I was in hospital. I stayed there for almost 4 months. I had 2 treatments per week. I was not scared of the treatment, I didn’t care anymore. This treatment saved my life.
Bad things happen and not everyone reacts the same to different treatments. If it's ruined your life, I'm sorry and that really sucks. It also makes a difference whether you are getting unilateral or bilateral ect. I just had my 22nd ect treatment today and I am not only perfectly fine, but my life has changed completely.
11 ECT "treatments" have left me with serious memory problems, seizures (which I never had before), and a feeling of dissociation. It's true I'm not as depressed, but I feel like a zombie most of the time. I understand there are people who have a good experience with it, maybe even a life-saving one. So I'll refrain from being judgmental...All I know is that it pretty much wrecked me in many ways. I had it in my late 20s and I'm now 44 and am on permanent disability. I would urge anyone thinking of undergoing ECT to think twice. More than twice.
John Rambo They have no right to force you to it. Morally no one has. Just dont Accept that. And if the dr want to do it against your will, fight for your rights as much as you can. Ask for help. Im not sure who you should ask since we probably live in different countries. If you dont know either I would suggest you could try asking a human rights organisation or a law firm. Google for phone numbers or ask anyone you think could possibly understand you for help. Do it even if you feel that its hard to focus and express your self clearly. Lots of Love!!!
Justin Sias how long was it from positive results to getting worse? My father has bipolar depression and it totally changed him for 5 years but now he is psychotic again and they want to do it one more time
Ive had 71 therapies wit upto 16 treatments at a time since 2007-2014... My motor function skills improved, my reflexes improved, I held mostly all my memory, even very first memories as a child. It's almost like..I can now feel the synapses and receptors working in-sync..as I can 'sense' where it 'feels' they're firing from and their destination across the brain. It's like a pulsation almost..without rythym???
I've had two episodes of severe clinical depression in 20 years. In both instances I was hospitalized for several weeks, received a series of ECT treatments and the depressions lifted completely. A severe clinical depression is one of the worst experiences a person can have. If you are motivated to end your life, DON'T. It always gets better even if you're convinced it won't. Depression plays tricks on the mind.
AmazingPudding It went ok. It did not really help like they say it should. I was still very depressed at the last treatment. No matter what a doctor says I am telling you that ECT if done more than a few times will cause memory issues. You will forget things and you will lose some older information in your mind. My last treatment was September 29, 2015. I did not like it and it did more damage to my brain then help my depression.
AmazingPudding Because it did not work for me it does not mean it won't work for you. I don't know if you have ever been in the hospital? A mental health hospital I mean? There is nothing wrong with going. Seeking help is not a sign of weakness. My depression was over the loss of a relationship with someone I truly loved and still do. It does get better. You need to keep fighting depression. I know it is a battle everyday. My mistake was to isolate so much that I feel into a world of pain. I know this sounds strange but I have 3 dogs and I was suicidal but I could not abounded them like my ex did to me. Sad thing is my ex still loves me its been over 2 years since the break up. Even though she loves me she won't take me back. It was so hard when we broke up we lived in upstate NY and she took off to Texas without saying a word to me and refused to talk to me. She was wrong she should have talked when I called her in Texas. She became selfish. She only cared about her nothing about me,
I thought this was a very cool video about ECT, in addition to reading medical articles and watching other UA-cam videos. With that said,. I underwent 6 treatments and it did nothing except destroy my short term memory. I will walk the parking lot for an hour and I have to write everything down all the time because my memory is permanently destroyed. I do not appreciate the fact that the long-term side effects are downplayed and so more and more people watch videos and say "I'm gonna try this".
This video should come with a warning that Nuland's outcome is not the usual one. Many people end up disabled and brain injured as a result of listening to the rare positive story about this quack procedure.
Yes, me too Jessica Whitney. My cognitive abilities and memory were badly damaged. While it saved my life, it also took away a lot from me. I would only do it again if my depression became life threatening again.
This is a very inspiring story, especially from a professional point of view, and especially coming from a medical doctor who has experienced this himself. Many times all treatments fail in these kinds of illnesses, and knowing that there are alternatives other than institutionalization, incarceration and even early death is very hopeful for anyone who suffers from severe depression or mania....
I had 15 ECT treatments almost 15 years ago. It made me psychotic and panic attacks started soon after that. I've been completely disabled since. I understand that this treatment helps some people, but I caution anyone considering it to be aware of very serious side effects. I was a lawyer at one time... now I'm barely living. I have no way of knowing if it was ECT or all the psychiatric meds that harmed me. I'm now trying to come off all the meds and hope for some kind of healing eventually. But I fear I'll never be well again. Wish I'd never heard of psychiatry.
Yes, this is a not uncommon result of couses of ECT. A few episodes may not cause incapacitating memory loss but repeated ECT causes a form of brain damage that destroys lives. No real memory = no real life. It must be stopped now.
I had ECT seven years ago and it helped. Should have had more sessions. Only side effect was forgetting peoples names etc for a few hours. Far less traumatic than the dentist, and I don't mind that. The clinical evidence for the effectiveness of ECT is overwhelming. They have compared it against fake ECT in trials.Trust the science, not the conspiracy theorists. It is the fit that heals, not the shock, and what's wrong with a little fit?
The amount of absolute ignorance on the comment section never cease to amaze me to the least bit. People do NOT choose to be depressed, people are depressed because of many reasons you will never understand or comprehend. People without mental illness(call it fake or whatever in the world you want) will NEVER understand what it's like to be in our shoes. No one should go through depression not even a nano second. I highly suggest people to do this electric shock therapy because it will END your misery. No one deserves to be depressed.
ight on. One is not given ECT on a whim, and like all mental health treatments, one particular treatment can work for one individual and not at all for another. Multiple research studies have shown that ECT can be beneficial for Major Depression, but there are memory loss side effects for some individuals who have benefitted or those who have not benefitted from ECT. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Anti-Depressant Medications can be sufficient for depressed patients, but for others , they don't really help. Since the worst case scenario for Major Depression is Suicide, the search for more and more mental health treatments remains a great challenge. In the mean time, each depressed patient needs to continue the search for a treatment that works for them, and for some people, ECT works for them.
mmm and many who have ECT go on to commit suicide as they are so damaged? Damage is not acknowledged and patients get no rehabilitation. If given under force of MHA it doesn’t matter how informed you are?
My daughter has been suffering from a mental illness since age 16, started as a depression and progressed to a severe bipolar echizofrenia, medication are mot helping much, so now she going to have Ect. I really feel devasteded. I really pray this works for my daughter.
Great talk Sherwin! Thanks for battling through your depression and staying here with us to deliver this Ted Talk. Your ideas and experience with Depression is really gonna help people understand their Illness in the context of their long term Mental Health. -Hamz
I had 6 ECT "treatments" when I was 28 and it completely changed the person I am now. I used to be a great writer and now I have terrible bouts of writers block. I don't remember chunks of my life, my short term memory sucks and I have PTSD from the experience.
I am 41 years old had depression my whole life. Had many bad episodes on Major Depressive Disorder. My depression caused me to lose the love of my life because I regressed into depression and did not know how to communicate. My depression came out as anger. 17 months ago my fiancée of 4 years left me and it sent me into a downward spiral and had suicide attempts. I withdrew from society not taking showers shaving or brushing my teeth not answering my phone did not clean my apartment, barely left my apartment did not wash laundry I am and was a wreck.. I had been doing this and I decided one day if this is the way I am going to feel the rest of my life I would end my life. I want to be happy and people just do not understand major depression its not a choice its just a way you feel. I am starting ECT on Monday August 3, 2015. I am praying and hopeful ECT will work because I do not want to feel this way any longer, I want to be happy. I have tried so many medications and its come down to this they did not work. So I am trying ECT to help. It was a choice between killing myself or undergo ECT. So I am trying it I am having unilateral ECT to start 3 times a week outpatient
+matthew mauran I've met many who claim it saved their lives, but they all got severe cognitive damage, and memories like goldfish after the treatment, and do you know what ?? the damage never went away, because damaged brain cells are dead and are not reproduced like other cells in your body. Also tests show that people that get ECT loose about 40 points on their IQ score after getting ECT. Why do you think that doctors don't tell their patients that ECT can give damage ? Because the patient will then check up on ECT and find that 100% of the patients that get ECT get cognitive damage (Research paper, Sakiem 2007), and that about 70% get memory damage such as lost long term memory, and loss of short term memory, as well as dementia. They also fail to tell you that all Sham ECT studies show very little difference between real ECT and the sham immediately after treatment, and absolutely no difference between sham ECT and real ECT 4 weeks after treatment. ECT is a sham, and the few that claim it saved their lives do so as a placibo effect.
I know 2 different people who have been through ECT treatments and I can tell you that it isn't everything he's cracked it to be.Severe loss of memory, especially short term. I was dating a girl who had become depressed (she was 1 of the 2 people I know with ECT) and she had a series of treatments before we took a trip to Disneyland, by the time we got home, she had only vague recollections of the trip and after her next treatment, she never remembered the trip again. It also lowered her IQ.
And this is the reason why much more science must be done if ect is to consider real medicine. Some people are lifted from deep depressions. Others get few if no benefits and horrendous side effects that appear as brain damage if you look at the symptoms. It is 2021 and it's crazy it's still used without good scientific evidence.
I received 6 sessions in 2012 for severe depression and panic disorder. It did NOT affect my memory whatsoever. If there is a mental health condition that doesn't respond to psychotherapy & medication this is a last resort & it's not for all. I'd rather have ECT than be on debilitating psych meds for the rest of my life and live anxiety free and this procedure cured, yes, cured my clinical depression and severe anxiety
@@andersbjorkman8666 NO. There is already plenty of "science" on ECT. That is why it is rarely used and places that use this awful "treatment" are shunned by the rest of the profession. The only thing that needs to happen with ECT is outright banning.
I'm 23 years old. I've suffered severe depression for 5 years now and for 4 of those years I've sought out treatment. To a very disappointing turn of events, nothing has worked. Lot's of medication and therapy. But I got a call a couple days ago and had a meeting with Psychiatrist who bought up the possibility of ECT. I suffer from a very physical depression and when I hear stories like this it seems a little too good to be true. After a long time of constantly feeling so terrible and the obsessive thoughts that come with it I find it quite hard to have hope of it getting any better. I do know that this seems like an option where I could seriously get some help. This really helped fill in some blanks and helped me understand it a little better. I still want to know more but thank you TED and Sherwin Nuland.
In Oct. 2018, a federal judge determined there was enough evidence for a jury to determine ECT caused brn damage. Two victims settled out of court. Then Somatics, makers, of Thymatron device, updated user manual stating their shock machines can cause “dense amnesia” and “permanent brain damage”. In light of these findings, why is TED not including a warning on this video or a link to the court ruling, so potential future victims are warned of the REAL risks. Power used today greater than Nuland’s 1970’s shock. He may even have received sham ECT, who knows. ECT=TBI.
Truth Needed9 I had ECT three months ago and I’m still severely depressed and have much more anxiety now especially around being in crowded situations where it is an expectation that I speak up about a topic when that occurs I get very very anxious I forget the words I feel totally done and that makes me want to chill and put my head on the covers or just kill myself I’ve been unable this time to get back into life no pill has worked now they’re talking about ketamine treatment Help
surferdudette19 Ha ha I read most of the comments while listening this voice and I agree with you but that’s the only thing I agree with him with he’s got a soothing voice
What a beautiful speech, it makes me have hope gor my daughter suffering from this mental illness in the Hospital and wating for her firts ECT, since 16 years og age she has strugled, now she is 32 medication have not help much. I hope this will be a better option.
I have had depression on and off for 20 years (started with post-partum) but I don't know how I'd be able to stand seeing my child go through it. I feel for you.
i am not sure if this brilliant man ran out of time or ended abruptly after the pheonix qoute, i would love to have seen this particular speech go on forever.
I received ECT when lived in Longmont, Colorado in 2012. I highly recommend it. But, I have Medicare & Medicaid. 10 sessions can cost a good $25,000. It treated my severe depression and panic disorder. I exhausted all other treatments & most medications, to qualify. I had to stay inpatient for 2weeks for 6 sessions. Maintenance is mostly required
Did they put you inpatient in the psych ward or general population? Did ECT give you energy and motivation to get back to daily life like your job, school, hobbies, etc? Do you require maintenance ECT treatments or maintenance medication?
@@shellywalker6072 Ahh, thank you for these answers. Could I ask what maintenance medication works for you? Also, how frequently do you get the maintenance ECT treatments? Do they put the electrodes on the right side of your head or on both temples? The right side ECT is supposedly associated with less memory loss.
@@gregorymalchuk272 Monthly maintenance. It was so long ago, I don't remember specifically where they put them on my head, mostly top. I didn't do the once a month maintenance because I moved. But, know they offer it all over compared to 2012. Centennial Hospital in Louisville, Colorado was wonderful.
my sister got raped and triggered severe depression and was diagnosed with bipolar. Attempted suicide couple times spent lots of time in mental hospitals. Ended up getting somewhere around 100 ect's as a final last resort to save her life(1990's). directly following the ect-nausea, memory loss didn't remember me; always remembered my parents thou. Saved her life. has a kid now happily married job etc. the girl that went in was not the girl that came out thou, I feel she is different. I hope our understanding and treatment of the brain advances must faster
Hmm, someone should try to figure out the mechanistic action going on. That sounds like a 'hard drive wipe' to me. So lobotomy is like demagnetizing the drive... ECT would be like deleting data, leaving blank area that can be re-written. Maybe?
Oh my God! I love this guy! He's so smart and he's so funny! I'm very glad ECT worked for him. I myself have had over 20 treatments, and I'm still, for lack of a better phrase, fucked up.
I have been getting ECT for years. I at this point get maintence visits once a year for upkeep. I am lucky enough that it works for me. I have had no side effects. I have had it three years in a row, 6 sessions each. It sort of magically zaps my depression away, I feel it around the third treatment. It was a last resort. Will I eventually suffer from memory loss and other things- yeah, probably. But, it takes away my depression and that kicks aside my anxiety and I get to live a bit. I do mine outpatient. I go under anesthesia. I wake up and go home and take a nap. I have however been in the recovery ward with people that it was not working for and the doctor just continued on with the sessions. Do research. Find a good hospital. Vanderbilt in Nashville has a new ECT ward.
@@gregorymalchuk272 it was nuts how much for me it changed my life. I got to feel normal. I remember eating out after my last session and I hadnt been in a resturaunt in years. After my 3rd one I just felt lighter. Its a last resort treatment but it works for me.
I am a 26 year old woman , up until last year I was given scholarships up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, and recommended by my professor to be able to work in parliament. I had 3 ect treatments because I was blacked out for 6 weeks with psychotic depression. They told me it was low dose electricity and very safe. They lied and I believed it. One year down the line, I hardly leave bed. I feel nothing inside my head, no emotions, no thoughts, it's like it's all frozen. My personality has been erased, I cannot perform tasks and I am no longer a functioning human. I would rather be dead than experience this. Please take this warning seriously , I have nothing to gain by saying otherwise.
Same story. It is about 15 years ago when I got 40 bilateral ect's. I've to say that it will come back, your personality, feelings and memories, not the same way it was. It is as if you have to build up it from the bottom. You need a lot support from others. Talk about it, please. It is very terrible,.as I know. Don't give up. Much love.
I'm having ECT, 6 sessions so far. This is my last chance. I'll kill myself if this doesn't work. It's good to see so many successful instances of ECT on UA-cam but equally worrying when you read the comments.
it never help to anyone.İdid it to and it didnt help at all.And i met with so many person who made it.İt has only plesoba affect and also it takes very short .after one month two month your ilness comıng back worse than normally
John Rambo Dont give up! If they are still trying to give you more ect - say no. And if they dont listen call a law firm, a human rights organisation or anyone you can think of.
I'm horrified by my treatment... I was on Section 3 so I didn't sign or consent to it... I wanted it stopped after 5 or 6 treatments; I felt absolutely fine I said to them "I'm happy enough now I don't need it anymore", & I did feel SO much better, but no one listened. I ended up having 9, I saw the last 3 as Torture & Punishment, due to my mental health issues & anxiety. No one would listen to my cries for help. They forced me down on the bed while I was crying, on more than 1 occassion, They didn't anaesthetise me properly because I have sudden jolts and convultions of my body, - very randomely, that have been happening for years... (3 years after I had the course of treatments) ... I am traumatised. I without a doubt have brain damage, for a long time I had pain on the right side of my head, and I have promenant pressure on both sides of my head, that has never left me. My brain has been fried, and I have substantial, terrible memory loss. All I can remember is the complete trauma they all put me through & the ignorance of the Dr and the ECT anaesthetists. :( I know they didn't anaesthetise me properly coz I remember them pushing me onto the bed and holding me down while I was crying saying I don't want it, and the sudden seizures/jolts of my body that I get are proof that I have brain damage. I'm so traumatised from my experience and permenantly mentally & pysically damaged! I am more vulnerable now than I was before, and lost all my dreams to become a singer, or motivation to do anything in life! I've lost my personality and my spark, and A LOT of my fighting spirit! I've lost the real me from ECT. I just couldn't be myself in the hospital that I was in, (Mother & baby Unit) and my depression was circumstantial!, - linked to things that had happened to me, yes coming off medication, but mainly (having my baby took away from me 2 days after having her/post natal depression & long distance relationship, & being locked in the hospital!!! rather than random or ongoing with the Need for ECT. I've tried to sue but with no luck. I've not been in the right place to do it, & my parents are and were on the doctors side. I'm vulnerable & have had no one to help me with persuing a legal case and sueing... I might try again. All I know it that, regardless of being on Section 3, i'm pretty sure that I didn't sign or consent to it!, wasn't given All the information, wasn't listened to when I expressed feeling better and being happy, and wasn't anaesthetised properly towards the end with constant random convultions of my body and a frozen feeling and permenant pressure on my head, with memory loss. My brain basically feels 'dumbed down' !! God knows how many brain cells those last 3 treatments killed. :( #Damaged 🙏
@@amandacar5679 This has nothing to do with ECT treatment itself, but with a horrible hospital, doctors and complete disregard to the wellbeing of patients.
My psychiatric provider says my (state/Medicaid) insurance won't cover ECT. She said he's had only 2 other patients she's referred to ECT, and they were denied by insurance. I don't know how many suicide attempts you have to have to qualify for it, but I think that's ridiculous. But it's about money. ECT requires a dozen hospital visits, and an anesthesiologist every time. Right there we're talking thousands of dollars. For state insurance, they will give you most generic meds, but that's about it.
Sherwin, Thanks for sharing your story.... it was enlightening & thank you for being REAL. My son committed suicide as a result of no hope for a better life.
My Girlfriend is struggling with depression and she decided to go through with ECT and all I can do is pray. I am sorry to hear about your son, did he ever use ECT?
I had ECT against my will last year when I was 18. It helped somewhat, though the positive effects were not permanent. Different people respond to treatments in different ways. One thing I will say is that my memory was affected quite a bit by the ECT. Some people do suffer a lot of memory loss, contrary to what many people might say. For me I had a lot of trouble remembering names and sometimes faces. And it wasn't just my short term memory, it was the names of people I had known for quite a while and it was also medium term stuff, events I had been to in the last year or so that I had no memory of. Having said that, if ECT really works for you, it might be worth it to make the trade off of memory troubles, or you might be one of the people who doesn't get bad memory issues. The fact that I had it done against my will was also a bit upsetting.
Early treatment was also inducing a diabetic coma. Any near death experience can do this for you. Some cultures would hang from hooks and stare at the sun for days till they pass out. So maybe a drug induced stupor or getting drunk is good for us after all. It can't be as bad as electrocution? I been shocked by lightening and outlets and kind of liked it so who knows?
If you have excessive neurosis, anxious rumination, or OCD as a primary part of your illness as well as depression I’m here to tell you to rethink or take pause before doing this treatment. I have very severe obsessive compulsive tendencies, I had this treatment and it did not work for me, 16 in all starting bilateral at the 5-6th one. Had to stop because it was making me deteriorate alarmingly. Not to mention no organization at this time endorses ECT for things like OCD, it hasn’t been shown to be remotely at all consistently effective in that area when compared to run of the mill severe depression
Great speech; onest, authentic message, thanks! Simple remedies: To think positively and to talk with positive words and mostly with verbs; to smile sincerely when looking in the mirror; to feel the enthousiasm of a child which became just more educated and experienced; to often nap or relax, to do good deeds as one can, to admire people and the biodiversity, to sing while bathing, walking, doing choirs (Strauss), to play, to joke, to surprise, to enjoy the gift of today
My favorite nutritional psychiatrist used ECT in his career but didn’t need or want it later. He didn’t recommend it without high dose nutrients due to ‘side effects’. The speaker glossed over early use without muscle relaxants & sleep, where not only elderly, but all ages had broken bones etc. & other brutal results, making patients fear it, like the homeless man, ‘shocked’ into ‘normalcy’, only to de-compensate, ‘less effective’ for schizophrenia. Nor did he mention negative research on animals & people, how ECT often can create trauma and brain damage like other psychiatric treatments, past and present. He didn’t elaborate that no antidepressant or psychotherapy helped, which happens far more often than is mentioned, doing nothing or inducing harm, and should be recognized. Let’s assume ECT helps 5-10% of people, but does damage to a larger percentage, similar to but more tolerable than prefrontal lobotomy he mentions (hardly without criticism except for lip clucking sounds). Who decides on what 5-10% will benefit and who harmed? This applies to pharmacology too. My physical salvation has been nutrients and psychedelic ketamine, with some normal pharmacology-after 15 years of trial & error. Conventional pharmacology gets enough attention, but is mostly a waste of time, money, or worse, inducing sickness, ‘side effects’, withdrawal. I’m grateful not to have tried ECT nor have conviction that it will do good, more likely harm (especially without nutrients which would not be prescribed). Inducing seizures/fevers, and other experiments on people deemed mentally ill, has a terrible dark side, one larger than it’s bright side, worthy of admission. I hope this speaker doesn’t dilly dally over the dark side of his choice treatment, regardless of his personal redemption. If people have benefited from ECT, conventional pharmacology, and cognitive behavioral therapy, then I salute you; but don’t let us who haven’t be silenced, pushed aside, and forgotten.
It helps 30-80 percent of ppl depending on what type of depression or illness and how long you’ve had it and so on. And that’s right from the mouth of the Head Doc in charge of it. It’s a risk just like EVERYTHING in life that some who are not bad enough yet aren’t willing to take. If you are suicidal you can’t take it anymore, you’ve lost hope then you will try ANYTHING if you want to live or if you’ve had enough you will give up and die. What ppl don’t realize is there are lots of reasons ppl get depressed and anxious, and different recommendations to treat it. Ppl don’t know this because they don’t get on line for hours and hours and find out about it, when maybe they could find a cure that they don’t even know about.
Well said. Thousands of us feel and know the same, and most cannot even read or watch presentations such as these to hear the truth, as they are so brain damaged.
It works in the short term. I had about 8 sessions after a 3 month suicide watch with psychotic depression. It makes everything go away for a time and you have a chance to get your head straight an you forget habitual bad thoughts but your environment is the same. I found it a hard slog afterwards to not relapse, If you can generate some positivity and can start making a change in your life and environment then it can work for you. You'll need some support tho. The memory side effects suck.
RIP Mr Nuland, and thank you for your enduring words. I do relate to your expression of obsessional thinking, I was adversed to the notion of ECT (my mother endured a lifetime of mental illness and failed treatments), I was forced to have ECT when I was in my early 20's at my ignorant brother's direction. It worked as I lost my neural networks, perhaps, of elaborate understandings of life meaning, and was numbed down in order to be normal and I also forgot my other learning's for nearly 2 years. Thank god I have a brain stem alike to everyone else. I was diagnosed of various conditions at that time, but eventually treated as though I was genetically the same as my mother. I was hospitalized for a very long time, unfortunately for me. My mathematical mental ability declined from ECT as did my confidence. My short term recall was impaired in part for years. I had to leave my university studies where I had previously excelled. The when and who is appropriate for ECT treatment should still exist, but be the last course of action.
+Barb Peat Thank you for your honesty. It is a fact that a large percentage of people who sustain brain injuries live in denial of those injuries. It is a syndrome of that type of injury. Psychiatry needs to be honest and stop telling people that they will have only two weeks temporary memory loss. Best wishes
Yes...head trauma...causes a kind of euphoria...by all accounts...to.,..& Very often the very nature of trauma...is that it can be denied & hidden for years..I have struggled for over 20 years since ECT...& yet..only now..am I receiving the full whammy of that...& the trauma & the full repercussions of the ECT is re-surfacing..Pretty mind blowing...yet true..Thankyou for your own intelligent seeing...
ECT was an incredibly traumatic experience for me and every day I regret it. However, I was manipulated into making the choice to do ECT and also experienced severe psychological abuse. ECT caused a lot of memory problems, and I can no longer read a book, I have lost my ability to drive a car, I cannot connect well to others, and it is unlikely that I will ever have a life worth living at this point. It concerns me that there is so much misinformation about ECT, especially people who do not believe that it can be abusive or damaging to the brain. Survivors are often not believed, and we are ignored as if our experiences don't count. I just think people should have more than one perspective about it. I often consider legally assisted suicide after my experience with ECT, I wish that I had ended my life before I knew how much worse it could get and obviously it had to be pretty bad for me to be a candidate for ECT to begin with. Not all of us get relief or redemption in our lives.
If ECT were voluntary, that is one thing, but my understanding is that ECT is often involuntary. As such, it is a violation of basic human rights. My understanding is that ECT destroys memory. If one has one's memories taken, the personhood is lost too. Extreme forms of treament should not be justified by the patient being a burden or an annoyance to someone or society.
Cubit100 are you need some better understanding because it’s not in voluntary. You have to sign a consent form and nobody can make you do that. Your family may pressure you into it that’s not involuntary. That would mean everything on the face of the earth is involuntary because some of the pressure you into doing it
People occasionally have short-term memory loss of the day they got ECT they don’t lose all their memory nothing in the world can do that lol and if you found something that does that that would be scientifically breaking to be able to white people’s memory by the minute black flash. People are retarded about ECT I do not know why everyone thinks they are all professionals because of Hollywood showing people in the 50s. Having the CT done to them to shock away the gay or mental retardation
Cubit100 I would say that its often if not allways involontary in a sense, even when the person is willing. In my case when I had ect I was on medication that made it harder for me to think and I was in a dependant situation where I wanted and needed to believe that the dr and nurses would help me and know what was best. In short: I was easily lead to believe it was all good. The risks were extremely toned down and the negative effects that are guaranteed to occur in some extent was not mentioned at all. I had no real chance to make an informed and sober desision. And I think that is the way it tends to be.
Jesse Collins No, I dont think that a person can loose 100% of their memory unless they die, wich happens sometimes to from ect. But having your memory, learning ability, emotional life etc empaired is bad. Even if its not totaly wiped away.
@@jessejive117 You are so wrong At least 30% is involuntary. The information given to ask for consent does not properly mention the side effects, so there is never informed consent. It is the only treatment in the whole of medicine which is forced upon the individual against their wishes, with catastrophic consequences. Psychopharmacology is too. You must believe us all.
Excited to watch as I just got my insurance coverage info. on it 👌🙏. Will. Try. Anything. First TMS session next week. Then will do ECT! Thankful to be able to undergo these treatments. Very blessed, I know. Thank you doctors❤️❤️❤️❤️.
Michelle Avram, I see your comment is only 6 months old. you really tried ECT? How did this work for you and how are you feeling 6 months later, if you don't mind my asking? I would appreciate the personal insight from a real person.
More evidence of severe damage done by ECT. It must be properly regulated, only given after fully informed consent which includes the 20-30% risk of severe life destroying memory loss, and cognitive impairment. Montgomery level consent.Coercive treatment must stop immediately. Nowhere in proper medicine is coercive treatment allowed, so why only in psychiatry with vulnerable, distressed patients.
My uncle was in his 20s when he had ECT for depression he's now 70 something and things got much worse for him afterwards. He started hearing voices constantly talks to himself. ECT was just barbaric torture I'm sure if he had another chance he wouldn't go through with it again.
It’s the same except now with anaesthesia they give even higher doses of shock. Nothing else is different. It’s still a barbaric practice and outcomes not properly measured
This reboots your brain,I know a guy who got electrocuted and he woke up in the hospital and couldn’t remember his family! I guess he returned to his regular self after awhile!
I just talked to the head Dr who is in charge of the ECT unit and when I asked him he said they really have no idea what it’s doing exactly to the brain to make it work or why it works, it is only a guess that it might reset the brain but they really don’t know for sure.
No perhaps not . In my case it has not returned and I still have huge decade long gaps in my psst memory, and form very few new memories. Each day is a blank at the start.
Electroshock causes brain and body trauma and damage. It can cause ptsd and disassociation. It causes cognitive deficits, long and short term memory loss, lessened emotions, outbursts of anger, feelings of being trapped. Reduced creativity, sensory overstimulation ‘flooding’, excessive sleeping or insomnia .... the list goes on and on and every brain injury is unique due to the amount of shocks given, the volts given, bilateral, unilateral, gender, age given. It is an internal electrical injury to the brain and body and once the euphoria fades. People will notice these things which in itself will cause worsening depression in the long term, psychiatrists will blame depression or another psychiatric disorder and shocks will continue to be given to give that sense of euphoria. The more damage will accumulate, the more likelihood of serious injury to the nervous system and brain, causing other complications that may cause death in the worst scenarios.
I would like to note that there is a possibility that ect causes the frontal lobes to switch of due to the trauma of the electricity there may also be injury. Which is what I think the intention of receiving ect is to diminish frontal lobe capacity. I know the ‘theory’ is depression is hyper connectivity in the frontal lobes. An unproven theory. Switching off the frontal lobes which is a big control Center of expressing ones self ( seat of the soul) and living in the world is not treatment. There are many other modalities of healing and becoming a more authentic self. Depression is usually trauma related or a calling to become whole again. Not more fragmented and live with more trauma and be dissociated. . Psychiatry and it’s medical methods are going to the pits. You do not have to fit in or conform to a society that is quite sick within itself. Or stay in an environment that is not good for you. It is a choice. Unfortunately during times of crisis medical methods are given and a transition period is haulted. Recovering from ECT without support or understanding costs lives for the people who feel they have lost so much and feel hopeless and not supported during this life changing event. I know in my heart electroshock will end and understanding begins.
I'd also ask that you can very easily tack on five very important words for every post you have made regarding this topic: "In my own personal experience" A human brain is akin to a much more complicated fingerprint. You can't deny that even the people who've had unsuccessful ECT, each have different and varying side effects. Your experience is valid. Yet it is not everyone's
A great explanation of ECT. I recently went through a number of treatments and found them helpful. I also posted it on my UA-cam channel. Douglas Bloch
This is not a great explanation of anything. It misrepresents this lunatic assault on the brain. No reference to the type of ECT, the spacing of his TBI/ECTs. So you and he survived. Pure luck. Thousands have been brain damaged by ECT.
I had ect and don't know who my family is anymore. I don't even know who I am. They call me Fred and say my name is Fred, but I don't believe my name is Fred. I think my name is Tom and I go by the name of Tom Thumb. I don't care what they say anymore, they are the crazy ones, my name is Tom Thumb.
That is assuming, of course, that the people receiving ECT have not been receiving other treatments as well. Dr Nuland did not say that those factors were controlled for.
I have Schizophrenia l was diagnosed at age 20 l was taking clozapine which built up in my system so much l could not talk l am now on Abilify and have revived many Ect treatments 8 months ago l tried to kill myself because of having delusions because of schizophrenia due to Ect l don’t remember the last 5 years of my traumatic life and suicide attempt if l did now l would be bitter and resentful l have not experienced and brain damage l have a great personality and a life Continuing Ect treatments are keeping the symptoms of Schizophrenia away l have Not had any symptoms for several months this treatment is much more humane than giving some a drug like clozapine that builds up in the system so much that you can not talk or gives you diabetes So what you lose your memory? I don’t want it! I’m now going forward without symptoms and creating new good memories and positively looking to the future. If you want the benefits of Ect with limiting the memory loss ask the performing phychiatrist to down grade your Ect like me and l have little to No memory loss Ect is a effective alternative to awful antipsychotics and Ect is keeping my schizophrenia away l get it once a month Ect has benefited me!
Although I have never had this level of depression, I have recommended ECT rarely for clients who have not responded to other options. I will always remember the 'Cuckoo's Nest' version in my mind, but I have seen results in patients as a last resort. Power to Sherwin and others who have no other option.
Tim Sullivan So why didn’t the many psychiatrists I’ve seen for depression just keep putting me on more and more drugs and not suggest ECT? I don’t consider myself a naturopath, a holistic shill, a member of Scientology or even Anti-Psychiatry. I’m just a concerned scientist.
ECT is one of the most misunderstood medical treatments. I had it multiple times, and it is overall safe, and very effective to treat major depression, and other mental health issues.
ECT causes brain damage. It is interesting that you think getting brain damaged "saved your life". So you only had a few ECT "lite" that made you forget what was bothering you?
Truth Needed9 there is no evidence that ECT causes brain damage. Absolutely dumbass comment. You won’t be able to find a single shred of evidence it causes any structural damage or cellular damage to the brain. And if you think depression treatment is hinged on forgetting your problems not only are you a rude asshat but are woefully ignorant of what is like to be depressed
I started crying when he described exactly how it feels to be in a black hole of depression you can't climb out of...then made me laugh, "I'm from the bronx i can't say "basing stoke".....aahh fuck it much better than basing stoke at least for me." LOL!
How thankful I am that most of society does not think like you, draziom99. I am thankful that we have moved on from superstition based medicine to evidence based medicine. If most of society thought like you, we would still be trying to "exorcize" plague, flu, schizophrenia, and who knows what else.
The thing that's the most frightening about ECT is that there are no standardized procedures for administration technique so every single doctor does it differently. It was grandfathered in as a medical device without ever having the pre-market approval safety studies. The truth of the matter is debating ECT safety is as effective as debating car safety assuming every single person has the exact same car with the exact same road conditions and the exact same driver. Without universal SOPs in administration technique, that's simply not the case. At this time, ECT is largely medical Russian Roulette with the most important thing you'll ever need in life--your brain. If you doctor tells you it's the only thing you've got left, search out an orthomolecular integrated medicine psychiatrist and a world of additional treatment options will suddenly become available. Class action lawsuit settlement in October 2019 Riera v Somatics, LLC spurred the publication of a "regulatory update" for the Thymatron user's manual which now lists 7 unquantifiable risks associated with permanent brain damage and permanent memory loss. They have never done a study on the longitudinal outcomes of ECT, but low-voltage Electrical injury is a reality faced by many ECT survivors. That this man had a good experience is wonderfully lucky. We'll never know how it impacted him over time because he's already passed. But keep in mind, unless you get his doctor, you will likely have a very different experience than he did, because no two doctors administer #ECT the same. I am now gravely disabled, had to relearn how to read, type, do simple arithmetic, and lost 36 years of memory including family experience, college education, and work experience. Until the APA develops SOPs for admin technique method and then strictly regulates it to ensure all doctors use the same method, this man's story must be put in context. Drs cannot control the path of 450v of electricity through the brain because it takes the path of least resistance impacting the lipid bilayer of the entire central nervous system. I'm grateful this guy won the lottery. Without SOPs we cannot assume the next person will be as lucky.
I agree with all you say. Absolutely. I had two long courses and have lost everything in my life. Everything. You cannot function in life, especially this IT based life, without a memory. Even the lowest of mammals have a memory, better than what I have left now.
For those who are against ECT, please consider this: 1) If you had ECT 40, 30, 20 or even just 10 years ago, your experience most likely does not represent accurately how it is performed nowadays. It was a truly barbaric treatment back in the day, there is no denying that. But that is not how it is being performed these days. Just like most other treatments evolve and improve over time, so does ECT. 2) There are numerous scientific studies that very well prove that it has significant remission rates for patients with depression, especially treatment-resistant depression. 3) Should it be the first option? No, obviously not. Psychotherapy, Antidepressants, even other treatments like Ketamine or rTMS should probably be explored first. But if your depression turns out to be resistant to all those approaches, then yes, ECT can provide the long-sought relief you are looking for. Yes there are risks, and there are very valid reasons to not go for it (e.g. potentially permanent memory loss). But such risks apply to any other treatment as well. A surgical removal of a tumor is also not without risk. Or simply taking anti-depressants - all of them, without exception, potentially have extremely severe side-effects, which can even be fatal (seizures, heart-attack, increased suicidality, some even simply mention "death" as side-effect). In the end, all those treatment options should be discussed and considered in detail, including the potential risks and what exactly it means. 4) And the argument that we don't really know just yet why ECT even works: That's of course a risk, yes, but that would also be an argument to continue the research to try and learn more about how it works. Also, consider that we actually don't really know how the vast majority of psychiatric treatments work - for many anti-depressants we know of some of their properties and what things they (probably) affect in our body, but it is in no way clear if that is really the (whole) truth to them.
Do the ECT treatments give you the motivation and energy needed to get back to work/school/hobbies? Do you need maintenance ECT treatments or maintenance medication?
ECT destroyed my life 2005 they did it 8 diff times in two weeks... i'm in full body pain 24-7 from this and still have bad depression and now even more problems 2016 if you think you need this ...1-2 times at most. Not everyone is the same!
+Chrissy Noble-Hobbs I've gone organic in my foods and I force myself to walk plus take supplements, eat fresh raw into smoothies. D3 mornings 5000 megs. And magnesium t a u r a t e at dinner and bedtime helped so much. We are what we eat. Don't laugh but jumping on a big trampoline gave me the best high ever.
It's not ignorance. I've had 12 ECT'S. Not gonna tell you my story but it ruined my life. It's ignorant to assume everyone would respond to ECT'S the same. I'm glad yours worked.
Unfortunately for me ect changed my life over night. I can no longer count change in my pocket, drive, ride push bikes, fly, remember my parents, watch TV, follow what people are saying. I have had a headache for 4.5 years 24/7 tinnitus, boss eyed, light sensitivity, numbness in my face, hands, and occasionally leg. Motion sickness that limits walking to about 1/4 mile before im sick. Forced to lay horizontal for up to 15 hours a day (was 18 for the first 2.75 years). Someone else has had to type this for me.
Your thoughts describe my experiences in 1991 at age 46 perfectly. Would love to talk with you, Dr. Nuland, more about it. I have written about my experiences.
Anosognosia refers to a condition in which the patient denies the deficits resulting from a brain injury. This is true for other kinds of brain dysfunction, and a whole book has been compiled on this subject entitled The Study of Anosognosia by George Prigatano (2010), with a chapter on traumatic brain injury. For example, a person with memory problems might say when confronted, "Oh, someone distracted me," or "I was in a hurry." If the person has a memory problem, they might use the same excuse many times( "there is nothing wrong with my memory", or, "I had no side effects from ------") "Mild" head injuries are often mistaken for other disorders, particularly psychiatric. It is sometimes hard for other healthcare professionals to appreciate that "mild" head injury symptoms are not due to some other psychiatric disorder (such as depression) or a psychosomatic disorder.
A terrible, vague description of ECT with no mention of the severe risks and potential for serious cognitive impairment and memory loss. Outcome lucky. Not typical.
I had electroshock therapy from October to November, 2010. It left me feeling a little foggy after each session, but I feel no lingering effects one year later. I am not free and clear of depression, but I was able to move out on my own, and hold down a job. I've made a few casual friends as well. Overall my mood improved measurably, I still feel down, but not in the deep and dark pit of despair I was in previously.
Did ECT give you the motivation to get back to work, school, hobbies, etc? Do you require maintenance ECT treatments or maintenance medication? Thanks for any info.
There are trials for psilocybin mushrooms ongoing now. I have suffered from debilitating major depressive disorder pretty much my entire life. a few years ago I was given some shrooms. My depression not only went away but it stayed away for 6 months. ECT is horrible. It disrupts the delicate workings of the brain
If you believe that it helps, it is possible that your unconscious self made you better. The human body has the ability to heal yourself!
@@scottcupp8129 Have you had ECT?
I just turned 42 this month, and have been going through anxiety and depression for years. Its currently treatment resistant. And I am being referred to ECT. This speech gave me some hope. If this man went through so much and says after ECT he came back better I have to put some faith in it too.
I currently get it every four weeks. I dont know why everyone hates on ECT. It seems trendy to do so, and I get people telling me its horrible when they havent had it.
Rose Laverde how did your ECT therapy go?
@@kelly511 how has ECT helped you? Did you have underlying depression plus severe depression?
I’m 26. I don’t want to suffer like I have been the rest of my life. It’s pushing a decade now that I’ve felt utterly suffocated. This has given me some hope.
Two years ago I had 12 ECT treatments, and I only had memory loss while I was in hospital. I stayed there for almost 4 months. I had 2 treatments per week. I was not scared of the treatment, I didn’t care anymore. This treatment saved my life.
Best wishes for future
Bad things happen and not everyone reacts the same to different treatments. If it's ruined your life, I'm sorry and that really sucks. It also makes a difference whether you are getting unilateral or bilateral ect.
I just had my 22nd ect treatment today and I am not only perfectly fine, but my life has changed completely.
If your life is really improving , why 22 times of such electricity shocks ?
@@believer2010ful Maintenance therapy.
Extremely helpful and encouraging to me, personally, as someone who has struggled with depression for over a decade, and with regular relapses.
I'm on decade 2 plus 4 years.
11 ECT "treatments" have left me with serious memory problems, seizures (which I never had before), and a feeling of dissociation. It's true I'm not as depressed, but I feel like a zombie most of the time. I understand there are people who have a good experience with it, maybe even a life-saving one. So I'll refrain from being judgmental...All I know is that it pretty much wrecked me in many ways. I had it in my late 20s and I'm now 44 and am on permanent disability. I would urge anyone thinking of undergoing ECT to think twice. More than twice.
Justin Sias thank you I didn't want to sign the consent forms
Justin Sias my parents are forcing me to do it. I am 28. I havehad my fourth ect and feel awful and disconnected.
John Rambo They have no right to force you to it. Morally no one has. Just dont Accept that. And if the dr want to do it against your will, fight for your rights as much as you can. Ask for help. Im not sure who you should ask since we probably live in different countries. If you dont know either I would suggest you could try asking a human rights organisation or a law firm. Google for phone numbers or ask anyone you think could possibly understand you for help.
Do it even if you feel that its hard to focus and express your self clearly. Lots of Love!!!
John Rambo Is not to late to stop having more ect.
Justin Sias how long was it from positive results to getting worse? My father has bipolar depression and it totally changed him for 5 years but now he is psychotic again and they want to do it one more time
Ive had 71 therapies wit upto 16 treatments at a time since 2007-2014...
My motor function skills improved, my reflexes improved, I held mostly all my memory, even very first memories as a child. It's almost like..I can now feel the synapses and receptors working in-sync..as I can 'sense' where it 'feels' they're firing from and their destination across the brain.
It's like a pulsation almost..without rythym???
Did it help your depression and anxiety?
240p, we meet again.
Thank you 2007.
Yeah
Looks good upscaled on 4k😉
I've had two episodes of severe clinical depression in 20 years. In both instances I was hospitalized for several weeks, received a series of ECT treatments and the depressions lifted completely. A severe clinical depression is one of the worst experiences a person can have. If you are motivated to end your life, DON'T. It always gets better even if you're convinced it won't. Depression plays tricks on the mind.
how did it go?
Did the ECT treatments lift your depression matthew? I'm reading your post for the first time.
AmazingPudding It went ok. It did not really help like they say it should. I was still very depressed at the last treatment. No matter what a doctor says I am telling you that ECT if done more than a few times will cause memory issues. You will forget things and you will lose some older information in your mind. My last treatment was September 29, 2015. I did not like it and it did more damage to my brain then help my depression.
I am being assessed for ECT. I'm very depresed and very suicidal, I need a miracle and I fear ECT will not help, although it helps some.
AmazingPudding
Because it did not work for me it does not mean it won't work for you. I don't know if you have ever been in the hospital? A mental health hospital I mean? There is nothing wrong with going. Seeking help is not a sign of weakness. My depression was over the loss of a relationship with someone I truly loved and still do. It does get better. You need to keep fighting depression. I know it is a battle everyday. My mistake was to isolate so much that I feel into a world of pain. I know this sounds strange but I have 3 dogs and I was suicidal but I could not abounded them like my ex did to me. Sad thing is my ex still loves me its been over 2 years since the break up. Even though she loves me she won't take me back. It was so hard when we broke up we lived in upstate NY and she took off to Texas without saying a word to me and refused to talk to me. She was wrong she should have talked when I called her in Texas. She became selfish. She only cared about her nothing about me,
He gives me hope that when I’m 60 something I’ll be better than I am now.
I thought this was a very cool video about ECT, in addition to reading medical articles and watching other UA-cam videos.
With that said,. I underwent 6 treatments and it did nothing except destroy my short term memory. I will walk the parking lot for an hour and I have to write everything down all the time because my memory is permanently destroyed. I do not appreciate the fact that the long-term side effects are downplayed and so more and more people watch videos and say "I'm gonna try this".
This video should come with a warning that Nuland's outcome is not the usual one. Many people end up disabled and brain injured as a result of listening to the rare positive story about this quack procedure.
how long ago was your treatment? this is normal for about 8 months after...but on average it goes away.
Cassius Dio I had ect 15 years ago and am still not recovered.
Jessica Whitney. Im so sorry for your difficulties. I have them to.
Yes, me too Jessica Whitney. My cognitive abilities and memory were badly damaged. While it saved my life, it also took away a lot from me. I would only do it again if my depression became life threatening again.
This is a very inspiring story, especially from a professional point of view, and especially coming from a medical doctor who has experienced this himself. Many times all treatments fail in these kinds of illnesses, and knowing that there are alternatives other than institutionalization, incarceration and even early death is very hopeful for anyone who suffers from severe depression or mania....
Thank you for sharing. I too have been there and now live a fuller happier life in recovery
This has had to be one of the best , if not the best, Ted talks that has been assigned for my class
I had 15 ECT treatments almost 15 years ago. It made me psychotic and panic attacks started soon after that. I've been completely disabled since. I understand that this treatment helps some people, but I caution anyone considering it to be aware of very serious side effects. I was a lawyer at one time... now I'm barely living. I have no way of knowing if it was ECT or all the psychiatric meds that harmed me. I'm now trying to come off all the meds and hope for some kind of healing eventually. But I fear I'll never be well again. Wish I'd never heard of psychiatry.
Yes, this is a not uncommon result of couses of ECT. A few episodes may not cause incapacitating memory loss but repeated ECT causes a form of brain damage that destroys lives. No real memory = no real life. It must be stopped now.
@@phillipsmith4485 Yeah, I just spoke to a friend who just had his fourth, and his memory is shot. Said at one point he doubted his existence.
@@thepreacher5934ect should be banned because of its side effects
I had ECT seven years ago and it helped. Should have had more sessions. Only side effect was forgetting peoples names etc for a few hours. Far less traumatic than the dentist, and I don't mind that. The clinical evidence for the effectiveness of ECT is overwhelming. They have compared it against fake ECT in trials.Trust the science, not the conspiracy theorists. It is the fit that heals, not the shock, and what's wrong with a little fit?
The amount of absolute ignorance on the comment section never cease to amaze me to the least bit. People do NOT choose to be depressed, people are depressed because of many reasons you will never understand or comprehend. People without mental illness(call it fake or whatever in the world you want) will NEVER understand what it's like to be in our shoes. No one should go through depression not even a nano second. I highly suggest people to do this electric shock therapy because it will END your misery. No one deserves to be depressed.
respect :')
Yes, people think depression is a phase. Depression is a daily, hourly, minute by minute black hole.
Agreed.
@@hottiemomfulmental health fitness,,, everyone has bad n good days.
Unfortunately professionals do not yet understand depression…
Some people are so fucking stupid
ight on. One is not given ECT on a whim, and like all mental health treatments, one particular treatment can work for one individual and not at all for another. Multiple research studies have shown that ECT can be beneficial for Major Depression, but there are memory loss side effects for some individuals who have benefitted or those who have not benefitted from ECT. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Anti-Depressant Medications can be sufficient for depressed patients, but for others , they don't really help. Since the worst case scenario for Major Depression is Suicide, the search for more and more mental health treatments remains a great challenge. In the mean time, each depressed patient needs to continue the search for a treatment that works for them, and for some people, ECT works for them.
mmm and many who have ECT go on to commit suicide as they are so damaged? Damage is not acknowledged and patients get no rehabilitation.
If given under force of MHA it doesn’t matter how informed you are?
My daughter has been suffering from a mental illness since age 16, started as a depression and progressed to a severe bipolar echizofrenia, medication are mot helping much, so now she going to have Ect. I really feel devasteded. I really pray this works for my daughter.
How is she now
How is she?
How is she now? Did the ETC work?
Update pls
Great talk Sherwin!
Thanks for battling through your depression and staying here with us to deliver this Ted Talk. Your ideas and experience with Depression is really gonna help people understand their Illness in the context of their long term Mental Health.
-Hamz
Help people? As in help them get brain damage by way of a lunatic procedure equal to "craniocerebral trauma"?
Amazing person with amazing values!Such a blessing to have listened to him!
I had 6 ECT "treatments" when I was 28 and it completely changed the person I am now. I used to be a great writer and now I have terrible bouts of writers block. I don't remember chunks of my life, my short term memory sucks and I have PTSD from the experience.
The truth again about the horror of repeatred ECT.
I am 41 years old had depression my whole life. Had many bad episodes on Major Depressive Disorder. My depression caused me to lose the love of my life because I regressed into depression and did not know how to communicate. My depression came out as anger. 17 months ago my fiancée of 4 years left me and it sent me into a downward spiral and had suicide attempts. I withdrew from society not taking showers shaving or brushing my teeth not answering my phone did not clean my apartment, barely left my apartment did not wash laundry I am and was a wreck.. I had been doing this and I decided one day if this is the way I am going to feel the rest of my life I would end my life. I want to be happy and people just do not understand major depression its not a choice its just a way you feel. I am starting ECT on Monday August 3, 2015. I am praying and hopeful ECT will work because I do not want to feel this way any longer, I want to be happy. I have tried so many medications and its come down to this they did not work. So I am trying ECT to help. It was a choice between killing myself or undergo ECT. So I am trying it I am having unilateral ECT to start 3 times a week outpatient
+matthew mauran I've met many who claim it saved their lives, but they all got severe cognitive damage, and memories like goldfish after the treatment, and do you know what ?? the damage never went away, because damaged brain cells are dead and are not reproduced like other cells in your body. Also tests show that people that get ECT loose about 40 points on their IQ score after getting ECT.
Why do you think that doctors don't tell their patients that ECT can give damage ? Because the patient will then check up on ECT and find that 100% of the patients that get ECT get cognitive damage (Research paper, Sakiem 2007), and that about 70% get memory damage such as lost long term memory, and loss of short term memory, as well as dementia.
They also fail to tell you that all Sham ECT studies show very little difference between real ECT and the sham immediately after treatment, and absolutely no difference between sham ECT and real ECT 4 weeks after treatment.
ECT is a sham, and the few that claim it saved their lives do so as a placibo effect.
Did it work?
What happened? Are you happy?
Matthew mauran, how are you now?
What happened? I can imagine...
I know 2 different people who have been through ECT treatments and I can tell you that it isn't everything he's cracked it to be.Severe loss of memory, especially short term. I was dating a girl who had become depressed (she was 1 of the 2 people I know with ECT) and she had a series of treatments before we took a trip to Disneyland, by the time we got home, she had only vague recollections of the trip and after her next treatment, she never remembered the trip again. It also lowered her IQ.
And this is the reason why much more science must be done if ect is to consider real medicine. Some people are lifted from deep depressions. Others get few if no benefits and horrendous side effects that appear as brain damage if you look at the symptoms. It is 2021 and it's crazy it's still used without good scientific evidence.
I received 6 sessions in 2012 for severe depression and panic disorder. It did NOT affect my memory whatsoever. If there is a mental health condition that doesn't respond to psychotherapy & medication this is a last resort & it's not for all. I'd rather have ECT than be on debilitating psych meds for the rest of my life and live anxiety free and this procedure cured, yes, cured my clinical depression and severe anxiety
@@shellywalker6072 Says the person who did not experience these debilitating side effects.
@@andersbjorkman8666 NO. There is already plenty of "science" on ECT. That is why it is rarely used and places that use this awful "treatment" are shunned by the rest of the profession.
The only thing that needs to happen with ECT is outright banning.
@@christo930 duh that's the point of their comment
I'm 23 years old. I've suffered severe depression for 5 years now and for 4 of those years I've sought out treatment. To a very disappointing turn of events, nothing has worked. Lot's of medication and therapy. But I got a call a couple days ago and had a meeting with Psychiatrist who bought up the possibility of ECT. I suffer from a very physical depression and when I hear stories like this it seems a little too good to be true. After a long time of constantly feeling so terrible and the obsessive thoughts that come with it I find it quite hard to have hope of it getting any better. I do know that this seems like an option where I could seriously get some help. This really helped fill in some blanks and helped me understand it a little better. I still want to know more but thank you TED and Sherwin Nuland.
Matty, did you have the treatments? If you did, how were the results? I hope they were good!
Ect saved my life I felt amazing and it lifted me away from my depression! I went suicidal too living my old life again.
How many treatments did you receive
How many treatments did you receive
In Oct. 2018, a federal judge determined there was enough evidence for a jury to determine ECT caused brn damage. Two victims settled out of court. Then Somatics, makers, of Thymatron device, updated user manual stating their shock machines can cause “dense amnesia” and “permanent brain damage”. In light of these findings, why is TED not including a warning on this video or a link to the court ruling, so potential future victims are warned of the REAL risks. Power used today greater than Nuland’s 1970’s shock. He may even have received sham ECT, who knows.
ECT=TBI.
Truth Needed9 I had ECT three months ago and I’m still severely depressed and have much more anxiety now especially around being in crowded situations where it is an expectation that I speak up about a topic when that occurs I get very very anxious I forget the words I feel totally done and that makes me want to chill and put my head on the covers or just kill myself I’ve been unable this time to get back into life no pill has worked now they’re talking about ketamine treatment Help
@@robroy4137 Are you doing better now? =/
Thank you Dr. Nuland, you are good man, RIP
This is not gonna relate to the talk but I find this man's voice very soothing.
surferdudette19 Sociopaths also have soothing voices, you know.
That's okay, I like to hear the calm gentle words of a lunatic before he/she bludgeons me to death.
surferdudette19 ya about as soothing as throwing a plugged-in radio in the bathtub
mimosa27 Yes, and it gives one a false sense of security and one is more easily mislead.
surferdudette19 Ha ha I read most of the comments while listening this voice and I agree with you but that’s the only thing I agree with him with he’s got a soothing voice
What a beautiful speech, it makes me have hope gor my daughter suffering from this mental illness in the Hospital and wating for her firts ECT, since 16 years og age she has strugled, now she is 32 medication have not help much. I hope this will be a better option.
Did she have ECT yet? Is it helping?
I have had depression on and off for 20 years (started with post-partum) but I don't know how I'd be able to stand seeing my child go through it. I feel for you.
i am not sure if this brilliant man ran out of time or ended abruptly after the pheonix qoute, i would love to have seen this particular speech go on forever.
I received ECT when lived in Longmont, Colorado in 2012. I highly recommend it. But, I have Medicare & Medicaid. 10 sessions can cost a good $25,000. It treated my severe depression and panic disorder. I exhausted all other treatments & most medications, to qualify. I had to stay inpatient for 2weeks for 6 sessions. Maintenance is mostly required
Did they put you inpatient in the psych ward or general population? Did ECT give you energy and motivation to get back to daily life like your job, school, hobbies, etc? Do you require maintenance ECT treatments or maintenance medication?
@@gregorymalchuk272 yes, to all your questions
@@shellywalker6072
Ahh, thank you for these answers. Could I ask what maintenance medication works for you? Also, how frequently do you get the maintenance ECT treatments? Do they put the electrodes on the right side of your head or on both temples? The right side ECT is supposedly associated with less memory loss.
@@gregorymalchuk272 Monthly maintenance. It was so long ago, I don't remember specifically where they put them on my head, mostly top. I didn't do the once a month maintenance because I moved. But, know they offer it all over compared to 2012. Centennial Hospital in Louisville, Colorado was wonderful.
@@gregorymalchuk272 Paroxetine 20mg. is my maintenance med.
RIP, Dr. Nuland, an inspiration.
did he die? if so what a loss
Yea, he died this March from prostate cancer
:(
L
Jason Hwang good if he wants to promote ECT good riddance
@@duewhit310 He just shared his personal experience and how it saved his life. He can't speak for others
ECT treatments saved me. So far I am up to 60 treatments. Would not be alive without them.
What an incredibly courageous man, an inspiration to everyone, especially his fellows
my sister got raped and triggered severe depression and was diagnosed with bipolar. Attempted suicide couple times spent lots of time in mental hospitals. Ended up getting somewhere around 100 ect's as a final last resort to save her life(1990's). directly following the ect-nausea, memory loss didn't remember me; always remembered my parents thou.
Saved her life. has a kid now happily married job etc. the girl that went in was not the girl that came out thou, I feel she is different.
I hope our understanding and treatment of the brain advances must faster
Hmm, someone should try to figure out the mechanistic action going on.
That sounds like a 'hard drive wipe' to me.
So lobotomy is like demagnetizing the drive...
ECT would be like deleting data, leaving blank area that can be re-written.
Maybe?
Oh my God! I love this guy! He's so smart and he's so funny! I'm very glad ECT worked for him. I myself have had over 20 treatments, and I'm still, for lack of a better phrase, fucked up.
How many treatments did he have?
I'd be happy to have ECT... but who knows if it will work. I guess desperate people (like myself) will try anything.
@@angelicam_5987 like he said over 20.
@@Grewyd thanks.
I have been getting ECT for years. I at this point get maintence visits once a year for upkeep. I am lucky enough that it works for me. I have had no side effects. I have had it three years in a row, 6 sessions each. It sort of magically zaps my depression away, I feel it around the third treatment. It was a last resort. Will I eventually suffer from memory loss and other things- yeah, probably. But, it takes away my depression and that kicks aside my anxiety and I get to live a bit. I do mine outpatient. I go under anesthesia. I wake up and go home and take a nap. I have however been in the recovery ward with people that it was not working for and the doctor just continued on with the sessions. Do research. Find a good hospital. Vanderbilt in Nashville has a new ECT ward.
Mellissa Krauss
Did you do 6 sessions a year for 3 years?
Ot 6 sessions a month each year for 3 years?
Would you please explain?!
Thank you
Does it give you energy and motivation back?
@@taghreedrulia5168 I get 6 sessions per year. Over a 2 week period.
@@gregorymalchuk272 it was nuts how much for me it changed my life. I got to feel normal. I remember eating out after my last session and I hadnt been in a resturaunt in years. After my 3rd one I just felt lighter. Its a last resort treatment but it works for me.
Memory loss is rather depressing.
I am a 26 year old woman , up until last year I was given scholarships up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, and recommended by my professor to be able to work in parliament.
I had 3 ect treatments because I was blacked out for 6 weeks with psychotic depression. They told me it was low dose electricity and very safe. They lied and I believed it.
One year down the line, I hardly leave bed. I feel nothing inside my head, no emotions, no thoughts, it's like it's all frozen. My personality has been erased, I cannot perform tasks and I am no longer a functioning human.
I would rather be dead than experience this. Please take this warning seriously , I have nothing to gain by saying otherwise.
Same story.
It is about 15 years ago when I got 40 bilateral ect's.
I've to say that it will come back, your personality, feelings and memories, not the same way it was.
It is as if you have to build up it from the bottom.
You need a lot support from others.
Talk about it, please.
It is very terrible,.as I know. Don't give up.
Much love.
I feel you... Same here...
Please mam . I am going through a similar situation and feeling so alone . Can we talk ?
@@vsreelekshmi591I am going through this, can we talk?
I'm having ECT, 6 sessions so far. This is my last chance. I'll kill myself if this doesn't work. It's good to see so many successful instances of ECT on UA-cam but equally worrying when you read the comments.
Hi! How are You now?
I hope you’re still with us. Life is always worth living
Hope your ok.. Don't do something stupid..
Are you okay?
You make it?
Gracias doctor por tan increíble charla.
Rest In Peace Sherwin B. Nuland.
I'm not the only one here it did not help
it did not help me at all.
it never help to anyone.İdid it to and it didnt help at all.And i met with so many person who made it.İt has only plesoba affect and also it takes very short .after one month two month your ilness comıng back worse than normally
Tendr Place my parents are forcing me to do it. I have no choice. god, help me. after my fourth ect I feel totally disconnected
John Rambo Dont give up! If they are still trying to give you more ect - say no. And if they dont listen call a law firm, a human rights organisation or anyone you can think of.
Aa Aa thank you for your concern. I got out of it, thankfully.
I'm horrified by my treatment... I was on Section 3 so I didn't sign or consent to it... I wanted it stopped after 5 or 6 treatments; I felt absolutely fine I said to them "I'm happy enough now I don't need it anymore", & I did feel SO much better, but no one listened. I ended up having 9, I saw the last 3 as Torture & Punishment, due to my mental health issues & anxiety. No one would listen to my cries for help. They forced me down on the bed while I was crying, on more than 1 occassion, They didn't anaesthetise me properly because I have sudden jolts and convultions of my body, - very randomely, that have been happening for years... (3 years after I had the course of treatments) ... I am traumatised. I without a doubt have brain damage, for a long time I had pain on the right side of my head, and I have promenant pressure on both sides of my head, that has never left me. My brain has been fried, and I have substantial, terrible memory loss. All I can remember is the complete trauma they all put me through & the ignorance of the Dr and the ECT anaesthetists. :( I know they didn't anaesthetise me properly coz I remember them pushing me onto the bed and holding me down while I was crying saying I don't want it, and the sudden seizures/jolts of my body that I get are proof that I have brain damage. I'm so traumatised from my experience and permenantly mentally & pysically damaged! I am more vulnerable now than I was before, and lost all my dreams to become a singer, or motivation to do anything in life! I've lost my personality and my spark, and A LOT of my fighting spirit! I've lost the real me from ECT. I just couldn't be myself in the hospital that I was in, (Mother & baby Unit) and my depression was circumstantial!, - linked to things that had happened to me, yes coming off medication, but mainly (having my baby took away from me 2 days after having her/post natal depression & long distance relationship, & being locked in the hospital!!! rather than random or ongoing with the Need for ECT. I've tried to sue but with no luck. I've not been in the right place to do it, & my parents are and were on the doctors side. I'm vulnerable & have had no one to help me with persuing a legal case and sueing... I might try again. All I know it that, regardless of being on Section 3, i'm pretty sure that I didn't sign or consent to it!, wasn't given All the information, wasn't listened to when I expressed feeling better and being happy, and wasn't anaesthetised properly towards the end with constant random convultions of my body and a frozen feeling and permenant pressure on my head, with memory loss. My brain basically feels 'dumbed down' !! God knows how many brain cells those last 3 treatments killed. :( #Damaged 🙏
I am so so sorry you went through this... and I hope things got better with time regarding your recovery...
ECT is barbaric procedure indeed... :'(
@@amandacar5679 This has nothing to do with ECT treatment itself, but with a horrible hospital, doctors and complete disregard to the wellbeing of patients.
My psychiatric provider says my (state/Medicaid) insurance won't cover ECT. She said he's had only 2 other patients she's referred to ECT, and they were denied by insurance. I don't know how many suicide attempts you have to have to qualify for it, but I think that's ridiculous. But it's about money. ECT requires a dozen hospital visits, and an anesthesiologist every time. Right there we're talking thousands of dollars. For state insurance, they will give you most generic meds, but that's about it.
Sherwin, Thanks for sharing your story.... it was enlightening & thank you for being REAL. My son committed suicide as a result of no hope for a better life.
My Girlfriend is struggling with depression and she decided to go through with ECT and all I can do is pray. I am sorry to hear about your son, did he ever use ECT?
😢
I feel so sorry for myself having had depression for so many years, but having my child commit suicide would be tortuous. : (
I had ECT against my will last year when I was 18. It helped somewhat, though the positive effects were not permanent. Different people respond to treatments in different ways. One thing I will say is that my memory was affected quite a bit by the ECT. Some people do suffer a lot of memory loss, contrary to what many people might say. For me I had a lot of trouble remembering names and sometimes faces. And it wasn't just my short term memory, it was the names of people I had known for quite a while and it was also medium term stuff, events I had been to in the last year or so that I had no memory of. Having said that, if ECT really works for you, it might be worth it to make the trade off of memory troubles, or you might be one of the people who doesn't get bad memory issues. The fact that I had it done against my will was also a bit upsetting.
So loved the presentation style!
Early treatment was also inducing a diabetic coma. Any near death experience can do this for you. Some cultures would hang from hooks and stare at the sun for days till they pass out. So maybe a drug induced stupor or getting drunk is good for us after all. It can't be as bad as electrocution? I been shocked by lightening and outlets and kind of liked it so who knows?
If you have excessive neurosis, anxious rumination, or OCD as a primary part of your illness as well as depression I’m here to tell you to rethink or take pause before doing this treatment. I have very severe obsessive compulsive tendencies, I had this treatment and it did not work for me, 16 in all starting bilateral at the 5-6th one. Had to stop because it was making me deteriorate alarmingly. Not to mention no organization at this time endorses ECT for things like OCD, it hasn’t been shown to be remotely at all consistently effective in that area when compared to run of the mill severe depression
I have read that TMS works well for OCD. I wish you the best
Great speech; onest, authentic message, thanks!
Simple remedies: To think positively and to talk with positive words and mostly with verbs; to smile sincerely when looking in the mirror; to feel the enthousiasm of a child which became just more educated and experienced; to often nap or relax, to do good deeds as one can, to admire people and the biodiversity, to sing while bathing, walking, doing choirs (Strauss), to play, to joke, to surprise, to enjoy the gift of today
I had 20 ECT treatments at a hospital in Monterey - same town as where this conference was held.
Did they help?
My favorite nutritional psychiatrist used ECT in his career but didn’t need or want it later. He didn’t recommend it without high dose nutrients due to ‘side effects’. The speaker glossed over early use without muscle relaxants & sleep, where not only elderly, but all ages had broken bones etc. & other brutal results, making patients fear it, like the homeless man, ‘shocked’ into ‘normalcy’, only to de-compensate, ‘less effective’ for schizophrenia. Nor did he mention negative research on animals & people, how ECT often can create trauma and brain damage like other psychiatric treatments, past and present. He didn’t elaborate that no antidepressant or psychotherapy helped, which happens far more often than is mentioned, doing nothing or inducing harm, and should be recognized. Let’s assume ECT helps 5-10% of people, but does damage to a larger percentage, similar to but more tolerable than prefrontal lobotomy he mentions (hardly without criticism except for lip clucking sounds). Who decides on what 5-10% will benefit and who harmed? This applies to pharmacology too. My physical salvation has been nutrients and psychedelic ketamine, with some normal pharmacology-after 15 years of trial & error. Conventional pharmacology gets enough attention, but is mostly a waste of time, money, or worse, inducing sickness, ‘side effects’, withdrawal. I’m grateful not to have tried ECT nor have conviction that it will do good, more likely harm (especially without nutrients which would not be prescribed). Inducing seizures/fevers, and other experiments on people deemed mentally ill, has a terrible dark side, one larger than it’s bright side, worthy of admission. I hope this speaker doesn’t dilly dally over the dark side of his choice treatment, regardless of his personal redemption. If people have benefited from ECT, conventional pharmacology, and cognitive behavioral therapy, then I salute you; but don’t let us who haven’t be silenced, pushed aside, and forgotten.
It helps 30-80 percent of ppl depending on what type of depression or illness and how long you’ve had it and so on. And that’s right from the mouth of the Head Doc in charge of it. It’s a risk just like EVERYTHING in life that some who are not bad enough yet aren’t willing to take. If you are suicidal you can’t take it anymore, you’ve lost hope then you will try ANYTHING if you want to live or if you’ve had enough you will give up and die. What ppl don’t realize is there are lots of reasons ppl get depressed and anxious, and different recommendations to treat it. Ppl don’t know this because they don’t get on line for hours and hours and find out about it, when maybe they could find a cure that they don’t even know about.
Well said. Thousands of us feel and know the same, and most cannot even read or watch presentations such as these to hear the truth, as they are so brain damaged.
It works in the short term. I had about 8 sessions after a 3 month suicide watch with psychotic depression. It makes everything go away for a time and you have a chance to get your head straight an you forget habitual bad thoughts but your environment is the same. I found it a hard slog afterwards to not relapse, If you can generate some positivity and can start making a change in your life and environment then it can work for you. You'll need some support tho. The memory side effects suck.
"But the environment is still the same " That is it. The source of depression shd be the solution here.
This was helpful.
Thank you.
RIP Mr Nuland, and thank you for your enduring words.
I do relate to your expression of obsessional thinking, I was adversed to the notion of ECT (my mother endured a lifetime of mental illness and failed treatments), I was forced to have ECT when I was in my early 20's at my ignorant brother's direction. It worked as I lost my neural networks, perhaps, of elaborate understandings of life meaning, and was numbed down in order to be normal and I also forgot my other learning's for nearly 2 years. Thank god I have a brain stem alike to everyone else.
I was diagnosed of various conditions at that time, but eventually treated as though I was genetically the same as my mother. I was hospitalized for a very long time, unfortunately for me.
My mathematical mental ability declined from ECT as did my confidence. My short term recall was impaired in part for years. I had to leave my university studies where I had previously excelled.
The when and who is appropriate for ECT treatment should still exist, but be the last course of action.
+Barb Peat Thank you for your honesty. It is a fact that a large percentage of people who sustain brain injuries live in denial of those injuries. It is a syndrome of that type of injury. Psychiatry needs to be honest and stop telling people that they will have only two weeks temporary memory loss. Best wishes
Yes...head trauma...causes a kind of euphoria...by all accounts...to.,..& Very often the very nature of trauma...is that it can be denied & hidden for years..I have struggled for over 20 years since ECT...& yet..only now..am I receiving the full whammy of that...& the trauma & the full repercussions of the ECT is re-surfacing..Pretty mind blowing...yet true..Thankyou for your own intelligent seeing...
That was fantastic. Thank you for sharing!
ECT was an incredibly traumatic experience for me and every day I regret it. However, I was manipulated into making the choice to do ECT and also experienced severe psychological abuse. ECT caused a lot of memory problems, and I can no longer read a book, I have lost my ability to drive a car, I cannot connect well to others, and it is unlikely that I will ever have a life worth living at this point. It concerns me that there is so much misinformation about ECT, especially people who do not believe that it can be abusive or damaging to the brain. Survivors are often not believed, and we are ignored as if our experiences don't count. I just think people should have more than one perspective about it. I often consider legally assisted suicide after my experience with ECT, I wish that I had ended my life before I knew how much worse it could get and obviously it had to be pretty bad for me to be a candidate for ECT to begin with. Not all of us get relief or redemption in our lives.
This is my favorite Ted talk thank you
I like how he sometimes refers to his depressed self in third person.
If ECT were voluntary, that is one thing, but my understanding is that ECT is often involuntary. As such, it is a violation of basic human rights. My understanding is that ECT destroys memory. If one has one's memories taken, the personhood is lost too. Extreme forms of treament should not be justified by the patient being a burden or an annoyance to someone or society.
Cubit100 are you need some better understanding because it’s not in voluntary. You have to sign a consent form and nobody can make you do that. Your family may pressure you into it that’s not involuntary. That would mean everything on the face of the earth is involuntary because some of the pressure you into doing it
People occasionally have short-term memory loss of the day they got ECT they don’t lose all their memory nothing in the world can do that lol and if you found something that does that that would be scientifically breaking to be able to white people’s memory by the minute black flash. People are retarded about ECT I do not know why everyone thinks they are all professionals because of Hollywood showing people in the 50s. Having the CT done to them to shock away the gay or mental retardation
Cubit100 I would say that its often if not allways involontary in a sense, even when the person is willing. In my case when I had ect I was on medication that made it harder for me to think and I was in a dependant situation where I wanted and needed to believe that the dr and nurses would help me and know what was best. In short: I was easily lead to believe it was all good. The risks were extremely toned down and the negative effects that are guaranteed to occur in some extent was not mentioned at all. I had no real chance to make an informed and sober desision. And I think that is the way it tends to be.
Jesse Collins No, I dont think that a person can loose 100% of their memory unless they die, wich happens sometimes to from ect. But having your memory, learning ability, emotional life etc empaired is bad. Even if its not totaly wiped away.
@@jessejive117 You are so wrong At least 30% is involuntary. The information given to ask for consent does not properly mention the side effects, so there is never informed consent. It is the only treatment in the whole of medicine which is forced upon the individual against their wishes, with catastrophic consequences. Psychopharmacology is too. You must believe us all.
There are different levels of depression. Some levels are off the scale dangerous to experience. It’s truly horrific
Excited to watch as I just got my insurance coverage info. on it 👌🙏. Will. Try. Anything.
First TMS session next week. Then will do ECT!
Thankful to be able to undergo these treatments. Very blessed, I know. Thank you doctors❤️❤️❤️❤️.
How did you get on?
How did it go?
I am between ECT 7 and 8 and i can feel the difference already. my options were try suicide again or this. I'm so glad I chose ECT.
My choice was suicide or ECT also, I'm glad I gave ECT a try.
Michelle Avram, I see your comment is only 6 months old. you really tried ECT? How did this work for you and how are you feeling 6 months later, if you don't mind my asking? I would appreciate the personal insight from a real person.
I have had ECT and it has worked tremendously. No problems at all. That was 2 years ago and I have never felt better.
Did you experienced some kind of long Term memory loss?
@@williamlucas8376 how many treatments did you receive?
More evidence of severe damage done by ECT. It must be properly regulated, only given after fully informed consent which includes the 20-30% risk of severe life destroying memory loss, and cognitive impairment. Montgomery level consent.Coercive treatment must stop immediately. Nowhere in proper medicine is coercive treatment allowed, so why only in psychiatry with vulnerable, distressed patients.
My uncle was in his 20s when he had ECT for depression he's now 70 something and things got much worse for him afterwards. He started hearing voices constantly talks to himself. ECT was just barbaric torture I'm sure if he had another chance he wouldn't go through with it again.
It was much different back then in so many ways.
@@abutterfly7975 different how? So far as I know, now they use muscle relaxers so there is no thrashing around but everything else is the same.
It’s the same except now with anaesthesia they give even higher doses of shock.
Nothing else is different. It’s still a barbaric practice and outcomes not properly measured
it's ok to share bad cases but don't call it "barbaric" when it has helped so many people
He had it 50 years ago!!! ECT is completely different now. Stop spreading misinformation.
OK, but would you have a rotting tooth pulled? It hurts, but it makes it better. People used to die from infected teeth before dentistry.
Such a great video. Truly inspiring.
It's amazing his daughter turned into such a mass murderer
This is an amazing man...
This reboots your brain,I know a guy who got electrocuted and he woke up in the hospital and couldn’t remember his family!
I guess he returned to his regular self after awhile!
Lucky him.......
I just talked to the head Dr who is in charge of the ECT unit and when I asked him he said they really have no idea what it’s doing exactly to the brain to make it work or why it works, it is only a guess that it might reset the brain but they really don’t know for sure.
No perhaps not . In my case it has not returned and I still have huge decade long gaps in my psst memory, and form very few new memories. Each day is a blank at the start.
Such amazing man ,thank you so much for standing up and doing this speech.god bless you xx
Electroshock causes brain and body trauma and damage. It can cause ptsd and disassociation. It causes cognitive deficits, long and short term memory loss, lessened emotions, outbursts of anger, feelings of being trapped. Reduced creativity, sensory overstimulation ‘flooding’, excessive sleeping or insomnia .... the list goes on and on and every brain injury is unique due to the amount of shocks given, the volts given, bilateral, unilateral, gender, age given. It is an internal electrical injury to the brain and body and once the euphoria fades. People will notice these things which in itself will cause worsening depression in the long term, psychiatrists will blame depression or another psychiatric disorder and shocks will continue to be given to give that sense of euphoria. The more damage will accumulate, the more likelihood of serious injury to the nervous system and brain, causing other complications that may cause death in the worst scenarios.
I would like to note that there is a possibility that ect causes the frontal lobes to switch of due to the trauma of the electricity there may also be injury. Which is what I think the intention of receiving ect is to diminish frontal lobe capacity. I know the ‘theory’ is depression is hyper connectivity in the frontal lobes. An unproven theory. Switching off the frontal lobes which is a big control Center of expressing ones self ( seat of the soul) and living in the world is not treatment. There are many other modalities of healing and becoming a more authentic self. Depression is usually trauma related or a calling to become whole again. Not more fragmented and live with more trauma and be dissociated. . Psychiatry and it’s medical methods are going to the pits. You do not have to fit in or conform to a society that is quite sick within itself. Or stay in an environment that is not good for you. It is a choice. Unfortunately during times of crisis medical methods are given and a transition period is haulted. Recovering from ECT without support or understanding costs lives for the people who feel they have lost so much and feel hopeless and not supported during this life changing event. I know in my heart electroshock will end and understanding begins.
When did you have your ECT done?
I'd also ask that you can very easily tack on five very important words for every post you have made regarding this topic:
"In my own personal experience"
A human brain is akin to a much more complicated fingerprint. You can't deny that even the people who've had unsuccessful ECT, each have different and varying side effects.
Your experience is valid. Yet it is not everyone's
Where did you get your information about ect? Is it credible?
See new videos about Electroshock/ECT under heading ( d s electroshock ). This is from the perspective of a former trauma nurse.
That was a very interessting video, thanks
A great explanation of ECT. I recently went through a number of treatments and found them helpful. I also posted it on my UA-cam channel. Douglas Bloch
This is not a great explanation of anything. It misrepresents this lunatic assault on the brain. No reference to the type of ECT, the spacing of his TBI/ECTs. So you and he survived. Pure luck. Thousands have been brain damaged by ECT.
I had ect and don't know who my family is anymore. I don't even know who I am. They call me Fred and say my name is Fred, but I don't believe my name is Fred. I think my name is Tom and I go by the name of Tom Thumb. I don't care what they say anymore, they are the crazy ones, my name is Tom Thumb.
cool cucumber ok tom thump :)
I had ECT 8 years ago....25 treatments...and I absolutely had amazing results. It completely changed my world...
I had to laugh at the story of the man that they were testing on!
What an awesome story about his life and experience with Ect
That is assuming, of course, that the people receiving ECT have not been receiving other treatments as well. Dr Nuland did not say that those factors were controlled for.
I have Schizophrenia l was diagnosed at age 20 l was taking clozapine which built up in my system so much l could not talk l am now on Abilify and have revived many Ect treatments 8 months ago l tried to kill myself because of having delusions because of schizophrenia due to Ect l don’t remember the last 5 years of my traumatic life and suicide attempt if l did now l would be bitter and resentful l have not experienced and brain damage l have a great personality and a life Continuing Ect treatments are keeping the symptoms of Schizophrenia away l have Not had any symptoms for several months this treatment is much more humane than giving some a drug like clozapine that builds up in the system so much that you can not talk or gives you diabetes So what you lose your memory? I don’t want it! I’m now going forward without symptoms and creating new good memories and positively looking to the future. If you want the benefits of Ect with limiting the memory loss ask the performing phychiatrist to down grade your Ect like me and l have little to No memory loss Ect is a effective alternative to awful antipsychotics and Ect is keeping my schizophrenia away l get it once a month Ect has benefited me!
RIP Doc
Although I have never had this level of depression, I have recommended ECT rarely for clients who have not responded to other options. I will always remember the 'Cuckoo's Nest' version in my mind, but I have seen results in patients as a last resort. Power to Sherwin and others who have no other option.
Tim Sullivan
So why didn’t the many psychiatrists I’ve seen for depression just keep putting me on more and more drugs and not suggest ECT? I don’t consider myself a naturopath, a holistic shill, a member of Scientology or even Anti-Psychiatry. I’m just a concerned scientist.
great story ! ahw ! Fawk it ! it's truly inspirational! he's got courage!
ECT is one of the most misunderstood medical treatments. I had it multiple times, and it is overall safe, and very effective to treat major depression, and other mental health issues.
ECT causes brain damage. It is interesting that you think getting brain damaged "saved your life". So you only had a few ECT "lite" that made you forget what was bothering you?
Truth Needed9 there is no evidence that ECT causes brain damage. Absolutely dumbass comment. You won’t be able to find a single shred of evidence it causes any structural damage or cellular damage to the brain. And if you think depression treatment is hinged on forgetting your problems not only are you a rude asshat but are woefully ignorant of what is like to be depressed
Thanks!
I started crying when he described exactly how it feels to be in a black hole of depression you can't climb out of...then made me laugh, "I'm from the bronx i can't say "basing stoke".....aahh fuck it much better than basing stoke at least for me." LOL!
Enjoyed that discourse. Think this is as far as we can go on this one. Bye for now...
March 3, 2014 RIP.
How thankful I am that most of society does not think like you, draziom99. I am thankful that we have moved on from superstition based medicine to evidence based medicine. If most of society thought like you, we would still be trying to "exorcize" plague, flu, schizophrenia, and who knows what else.
The thing that's the most frightening about ECT is that there are no standardized procedures for administration technique so every single doctor does it differently. It was grandfathered in as a medical device without ever having the pre-market approval safety studies. The truth of the matter is debating ECT safety is as effective as debating car safety assuming every single person has the exact same car with the exact same road conditions and the exact same driver. Without universal SOPs in administration technique, that's simply not the case. At this time, ECT is largely medical Russian Roulette with the most important thing you'll ever need in life--your brain. If you doctor tells you it's the only thing you've got left, search out an orthomolecular integrated medicine psychiatrist and a world of additional treatment options will suddenly become available. Class action lawsuit settlement in October 2019 Riera v Somatics, LLC spurred the publication of a "regulatory update" for the Thymatron user's manual which now lists 7 unquantifiable risks associated with permanent brain damage and permanent memory loss.
They have never done a study on the longitudinal outcomes of ECT, but low-voltage Electrical injury is a reality faced by many ECT survivors.
That this man had a good experience is wonderfully lucky. We'll never know how it impacted him over time because he's already passed. But keep in mind, unless you get his doctor, you will likely have a very different experience than he did, because no two doctors administer #ECT the same.
I am now gravely disabled, had to relearn how to read, type, do simple arithmetic, and lost 36 years of memory including family experience, college education, and work experience.
Until the APA develops SOPs for admin technique method and then strictly regulates it to ensure all doctors use the same method, this man's story must be put in context. Drs cannot control the path of 450v of electricity through the brain because it takes the path of least resistance impacting the lipid bilayer of the entire central nervous system. I'm grateful this guy won the lottery. Without SOPs we cannot assume the next person will be as lucky.
That's alarming. Have you became disabled because of ECT?
I agree with all you say. Absolutely. I had two long courses and have lost everything in my life. Everything. You cannot function in life, especially this IT based life, without a memory. Even the lowest of mammals have a memory, better than what I have left now.
For those who are against ECT, please consider this:
1) If you had ECT 40, 30, 20 or even just 10 years ago, your experience most likely does not represent accurately how it is performed nowadays. It was a truly barbaric treatment back in the day, there is no denying that. But that is not how it is being performed these days. Just like most other treatments evolve and improve over time, so does ECT.
2) There are numerous scientific studies that very well prove that it has significant remission rates for patients with depression, especially treatment-resistant depression.
3) Should it be the first option? No, obviously not.
Psychotherapy, Antidepressants, even other treatments like Ketamine or rTMS should probably be explored first. But if your depression turns out to be resistant to all those approaches, then yes, ECT can provide the long-sought relief you are looking for.
Yes there are risks, and there are very valid reasons to not go for it (e.g. potentially permanent memory loss). But such risks apply to any other treatment as well. A surgical removal of a tumor is also not without risk. Or simply taking anti-depressants - all of them, without exception, potentially have extremely severe side-effects, which can even be fatal (seizures, heart-attack, increased suicidality, some even simply mention "death" as side-effect). In the end, all those treatment options should be discussed and considered in detail, including the potential risks and what exactly it means.
4) And the argument that we don't really know just yet why ECT even works: That's of course a risk, yes, but that would also be an argument to continue the research to try and learn more about how it works. Also, consider that we actually don't really know how the vast majority of psychiatric treatments work - for many anti-depressants we know of some of their properties and what things they (probably) affect in our body, but it is in no way clear if that is really the (whole) truth to them.
ECT Saved my life too! :)
How many treatments did you receive?
Do the ECT treatments give you the motivation and energy needed to get back to work/school/hobbies? Do you need maintenance ECT treatments or maintenance medication?
No it did not, you poor misguided fool.
"aww, fuck it"
that's exactly what i say to myself
Thanks for sharing, dear man!
ECT destroyed my life 2005 they did it 8 diff times in two weeks... i'm in full body pain 24-7 from this and still have bad depression and now even more problems 2016 if you think you need this ...1-2 times at most. Not everyone is the same!
+Chrissy Noble-Hobbs I've gone organic in my foods and I force myself to walk plus take supplements, eat fresh raw into smoothies. D3 mornings 5000 megs. And magnesium t a u r a t e at dinner and bedtime helped so much. We are what we eat. Don't laugh but jumping on a big trampoline gave me the best high ever.
The ignorance of some of the comments are astounding. ECT saved my life. Period.
It's not ignorance. I've had 12 ECT'S. Not gonna tell you my story but it ruined my life.
It's ignorant to assume everyone would respond to ECT'S the same.
I'm glad yours worked.
Unfortunately for me ect changed my life over night. I can no longer count change in my pocket, drive, ride push bikes, fly, remember my parents, watch TV, follow what people are saying. I have had a headache for 4.5 years 24/7 tinnitus, boss eyed, light sensitivity, numbness in my face, hands, and occasionally leg. Motion sickness that limits walking to about 1/4 mile before im sick.
Forced to lay horizontal for up to 15 hours a day (was 18 for the first 2.75 years).
Someone else has had to type this for me.
Oh man I am so sorry 😔
Your thoughts describe my experiences in 1991 at age 46 perfectly. Would love to talk with you, Dr. Nuland, more about it. I have written about my experiences.
Please tell us more or direct us to where we can read about your experience. I'm very interested.
Anosognosia refers to a condition in which the patient denies the deficits resulting from a brain injury. This is true for other kinds of brain dysfunction, and a whole book has been compiled on this subject entitled The Study of Anosognosia by George Prigatano (2010), with a chapter on traumatic brain injury. For example, a person with memory problems might say when confronted, "Oh, someone distracted me," or "I was in a hurry." If the person has a memory problem, they might use the same excuse many times( "there is nothing wrong with my memory", or, "I had no side effects from ------") "Mild" head injuries are often mistaken for other disorders, particularly psychiatric. It is sometimes hard for other healthcare professionals to appreciate that "mild" head injury symptoms are not due to some other psychiatric disorder (such as depression) or a psychosomatic disorder.
What is your conclusion?
A terrible, vague description of ECT with no mention of the severe risks and potential for serious cognitive impairment and memory loss. Outcome lucky. Not typical.
Truth Needed9. I agree. I have never fully recovered from the ect I had 15 years ago. I would give anything to have it undone.