Things that White Dwarf rules writing has made Dan say: Laser pointer line Infinitely-tall Master of Terrain The line to the corner goes down Drawing is a top down thing It's really fuzzy Fwiw I think RAW is a Laser line but RAI is a plane. Also solid vid! Really made me wish fighters in stuff like blacktalons and OOA were alliable
Kixi taka has my fave triple. One extra toughness and extra movement in 9 is awesome. I run my team up the board and if my opponent wants to fight my krox, good luck
Agreed. Kixi-Taka is great, even at the slight point-increase he suffered in the last adjustment. It's the kind of flexible, always-useful ability that creates a bunch of small benefits that ideally yield a big net gain, which I think is what they aim for when designing Order abilities.
I think pulls (and now pushes) probably count as control abilities in warcry. They're maybe not as valuable as a net all the time, but they can be pretty consistent and I think they're make more fun and interesting gameplay than nets
I think the control triples portion was a great look at a lot of the ways that GW misses the mark when designing teams. A lot of the control abilities read as "YOUR OPPONENT GETS SHUT DOWN" and play as "your opponent needs to be slightly more aware of positioning or just win initiative" Like you mentioned the best non-net control abilities are just movement abilities Ruination and Ironjawz work as control teams because they don't rely on abilities to control and have good stats and good movement tricks. IJ battle trait is active 100% of the time. There's plenty of counter play but the only resource cost is in list building. Ruination has a reaction that is on cheap chaff so it doesn't care about initiative and if you don't use it you're not mad to have a 60pt fast thing in SCE The "creatureless control" feeling is something i've chased in warcry but the reality is there's not much that puts more pressure on your opponent than a big dude that kills everything it touches, or the ability to just be where you need to be at all times
For the control triples I feel a lot of them are designed to be paired with other faction things. Case in point, ruination chamber. Turning all abilities into 1's is ok outside of it but inside it means All your fighters can negate any ability with a reaction and that can work wonders.
The remarks in the Damage Triples section are just Order all over: There's this theory behind the Grand Alliance approach that suggests that Order are mostly the regular folks of civilization, always outnumbered by the powerful forces arrayed against them, who call upon their synergy and abilities to become more than the sum of their parts . . . but given Warcry's system (and the designers' hesitance to accept that if a scrub is 60 points, a midrange fighter should be 95, not 115), it instead works out that Order is a lot of mediocre profiles that mostly take up board-space. It can be a bit jarring to come from AoS, accustomed to hard-hitting Fyreslayers and Idoneth, or resilient Lumineth and Seraphon, to Warcry where they're all rather lackluster, weak and squishy. It winds up that Order warbands are the ravening hordes trying to overwhelm their foes in a flood of flesh, and Destruction warbands are the heroic few rising to the occasion to defeat them. The designers seem to think very highly of _Release the River_ relative to _Coordinated Strike_ as the Seneschal and Calthia are the same cost, but she's equal or superior in every stat but one (the one depends on weapon choice). I guess that abilities that reduce enemy Attacks or damage fall under "Control" in this categorization, in which case they end up in a bit of a measurement limbo, since the effect is not simply to reduce incoming damage, but to change one's opponent's decisions. A lot of the on-line analysis reminds me of the early days of the post-Moneyball explosion of Sabermetrics into popular consciousness, and the consequent divide between the scientists, who viewed available information as elements toward greater understanding, and the priests, who would announce that anything not yet subject to reliable measurement should be thrown out as unimportant.
Things that White Dwarf rules writing has made Dan say:
Laser pointer line
Infinitely-tall
Master of Terrain
The line to the corner goes down
Drawing is a top down thing
It's really fuzzy
Fwiw I think RAW is a Laser line but RAI is a plane.
Also solid vid! Really made me wish fighters in stuff like blacktalons and OOA were alliable
I wish I'd kept a running tally. We've had some funny ones over the years.
28:51 it's okay, you can dunk on me
Kixi taka has my fave triple. One extra toughness and extra movement in 9 is awesome. I run my team up the board and if my opponent wants to fight my krox, good luck
I also think it's the perfect ability for KO too. Patches up their M3 T3 really well and is value agnostic
Agreed. Kixi-Taka is great, even at the slight point-increase he suffered in the last adjustment. It's the kind of flexible, always-useful ability that creates a bunch of small benefits that ideally yield a big net gain, which I think is what they aim for when designing Order abilities.
I think pulls (and now pushes) probably count as control abilities in warcry. They're maybe not as valuable as a net all the time, but they can be pretty consistent and I think they're make more fun and interesting gameplay than nets
100% agree with this, it helps a lot that they don't care about initiative and can double as damage abilities
I think the control triples portion was a great look at a lot of the ways that GW misses the mark when designing teams. A lot of the control abilities read as "YOUR OPPONENT GETS SHUT DOWN" and play as "your opponent needs to be slightly more aware of positioning or just win initiative" Like you mentioned the best non-net control abilities are just movement abilities
Ruination and Ironjawz work as control teams because they don't rely on abilities to control and have good stats and good movement tricks. IJ battle trait is active 100% of the time. There's plenty of counter play but the only resource cost is in list building. Ruination has a reaction that is on cheap chaff so it doesn't care about initiative and if you don't use it you're not mad to have a 60pt fast thing in SCE
The "creatureless control" feeling is something i've chased in warcry but the reality is there's not much that puts more pressure on your opponent than a big dude that kills everything it touches, or the ability to just be where you need to be at all times
Nice! You might just have done bumped up the Vulkyns in my painting queu with this video!
They're pretty sweet
I think it was Polar who had a neat list using pureflood w a melee ko list
For the control triples I feel a lot of them are designed to be paired with other faction things. Case in point, ruination chamber. Turning all abilities into 1's is ok outside of it but inside it means All your fighters can negate any ability with a reaction and that can work wonders.
I've had a lot of luck with inspiring presence denining the other playing an activation by using it to finish off a heavily wounded unit.
The remarks in the Damage Triples section are just Order all over: There's this theory behind the Grand Alliance approach that suggests that Order are mostly the regular folks of civilization, always outnumbered by the powerful forces arrayed against them, who call upon their synergy and abilities to become more than the sum of their parts . . . but given Warcry's system (and the designers' hesitance to accept that if a scrub is 60 points, a midrange fighter should be 95, not 115), it instead works out that Order is a lot of mediocre profiles that mostly take up board-space. It can be a bit jarring to come from AoS, accustomed to hard-hitting Fyreslayers and Idoneth, or resilient Lumineth and Seraphon, to Warcry where they're all rather lackluster, weak and squishy. It winds up that Order warbands are the ravening hordes trying to overwhelm their foes in a flood of flesh, and Destruction warbands are the heroic few rising to the occasion to defeat them.
The designers seem to think very highly of _Release the River_ relative to _Coordinated Strike_ as the Seneschal and Calthia are the same cost, but she's equal or superior in every stat but one (the one depends on weapon choice). I guess that abilities that reduce enemy Attacks or damage fall under "Control" in this categorization, in which case they end up in a bit of a measurement limbo, since the effect is not simply to reduce incoming damage, but to change one's opponent's decisions.
A lot of the on-line analysis reminds me of the early days of the post-Moneyball explosion of Sabermetrics into popular consciousness, and the consequent divide between the scientists, who viewed available information as elements toward greater understanding, and the priests, who would announce that anything not yet subject to reliable measurement should be thrown out as unimportant.
The first part of this is such a funny lore issue. I totally agree too many order warbs seem like ravening hordes.
based youtuber.
Why involve politics that you don’t understand? We here to listen about Warcry not politics
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