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Thanks so much for inviting me to speak with you, Steve! I have a lot more questions for you for future chats we can do. You’re an inspiration to us all!
If you were my grandfather, you would know Greek (ancient I think, he spent hours reciting the gospel of Luke alone for no reason back to front), ancient Hebrew and Latin. Religious ministers like him had to.
Hi...I am a student at theAncient Language Institute studying Ancient Greek. Luke, I love your readings for Athenaze. And I especially enjoy your circling the chapters..you read with so much feeling and pathos that I feel like I know Dicapolois, Myrrhine, Melitta, Phillipos and the Grandfather!!! Thank you so much!!!
It's about the guest, this was one of the most interesting chats I've seen in the channel, even with other guests talking about other languages that I'm more interested in
I remember the shock I felt when in Louvre I saw a stone inscription with names of Athenians who died in a military expedition, and among other names I saw my own name. 'Demetrios' was written on the stone. And yes, this was the feeling of connection with that ancient Dimitri across 2500 years, multiplied by the fact that yes, I can read the letters written by the hands of people who new that guy, that ancient kin of mine, my doppelganger, my incarnation, another me.
This is something that as an Australian I really feel I miss out on. Where I live, 'ancient history' goes back like 200 years. Typically ancient relics in museums here have a black and white photo next to them of the item in its heydey, which gives you the idea that really it is not very old.
They're two of my favorite UA-cam creators; 👍 Salve! I tried Latin for a few weeks but had to give it up for lack of time; I still enjoyed it, though, Accusativus, Nominativus, Ablativus, Wheelock's Latin, etc.
I would love to learn Latin and Greek after French, Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese. I'm on French, though, right now. Great discussion! I'd like to learn for philosophy and theology.
New Greek is the evolution of Ancient Greek, my friend. As a Greek I want to say that we are still taught ancient Greek in school. The new Greek is more simplified. In addition, we use many ancient Greek phrases in our daily life. It is a living language found in various Greek dialects.
Gratias tibi valde! :) So many interesting things out there to explore and just so much time... Thank you very much for that fascinating view into ancient languages.
Steve Kaufmann has said something profound, learning languages can help you to connect to other people and culture in space and in time. I am learning European languages and I actually do it to learn the culture. I usually start reading the traditional tales, legends, myths of the country to understand their way of thinking and their morals. Then their geography, history, music, art, literature… I used to like strategy and civilizations video games, then I liked reading the classic and about ancient conquerors, but now I am sort of “conquering Europe” through their languages 😂 after all if you also have the chance of living in those countries during certain period of your life, they become a part of yourself. I started learning modern Greek last summer, because I was going to Athens and I wanted to learn some “conversation” sentences as a part of the fun of visiting a foreign country: try to order things, or ask for directions in the native language. I actually liked it SO MUCH! I could read and understand a few of basics… ! And it is fun to find words that sound you etymologically or that you see they come from another language (some clothes words seem to come from Italian… Venetian?) I remember as a little child being completely crazy when I learned to read, I tried to read everything I could, i.e. in the car I tried to read the written things in the street before we passed them by car. Learning Greek actually remembered me that childhood frenzyness to read and learn. However, I have promised myself to not continue learning Greek for the moment. I should improve first other languages I already know.
Hi Steve, thanks for the another interesting interview! 🙋♂️👍 You're not only a great tutor of English, you also regularly bring really interesting topics for us! 😊👏 Although "Dead Languages" are exciting to learn, I'm going to focus only on English, since I'm trying to help other people speak English without fear of mistakes 😁 I wish you guys all the best! 🙌😊 Let's boost our English speaking skills together! 💪🤩
Two very important Biblical languages. Love studying them. Are languages really evolving? Or are they devolving? Shakespeare seems higher than the contemporary. Good video! Worth watching! Thanks!
Shakespeare is held in high regard, but he's an extreme. There are literary greats today. It's going to take generations for any of them to be revered like Shakespeare. But, language is 100% evolving.
@@channelnumber52 Hello. You said “Shakespeare is … an extreme.“. Perhaps. But, he wrote to an audience that understood him. One question I have, if languages are "evolving“ rather than “devolving“ why where there more earlier on and less and less and history marches on? My opinion at the moment is that men have advanced technologically (better toys and tools) but the human individual capability has not itself evolved. Man was created rather than evolving from a lower life form.
@@larryclark9380 Shakespear isn't higher per se, but it it his popularity that made his language the basis of what people thought of as higher language.
If languages only devolved without evolving, then we would all speak the same baby talk today while cavemen must've spoken like linguistic gods. Obviously that's not true. Take Latin and Romance languages for example. Latin didn't have articles because it didn't need them, Romance languages do have them. Now usually they are still unnecessary. L'histoire in most cases doesn't add more information than what could be said with histoire. Modern Romance articles come from the Latin ille/illa/illud which hundreds of years after its original use started to become a mandatory article. Another example would be pronoun dropping. In Latin you don't have to use personal pronouns, they are just used for emphasis. I'm from England is just Anglia sum, not Ego Anglia sum. Sum already means I am, you don't have to say I I am. In Italian it would be sono di Inghilterra, not io sono di Inghilterra, that would sounds wrong. In French however, you have to say Je viens d'Angleterre, you can't just say viens d'Angleterre. There is no pronoun dropping in French anymore, the language has become more complex. And that for apparently no reason. It's absolutely possible that pronoun dropping could be reintroduced into French in a couple hundred years. These changes happened naturally. But in many languages, like Slavic, Romance, or Hellenic languages, there are countless examples of people artificially making the language more complex by introducing older words and concepts into a modern languages. And these people succeeded. Right now we see the introduction of a whole new gender in Spanish. Amigo is male, amiga is female, and amige is neuter. And they are surprisingly successful. I would be surprised if in a hundred years that's a normal feature of the language, even though Spaniards haven't used a neuter gender in a thousand years. As you can see, languages constantly evolve in both ways simultaneously, oftentimes at random, sometimes artificially. The transition of pronouncing 42 as forty-two and not two-and-fourty is one that almost every European language made artificially, to make them easier. Meanwhile French numbers are harder to learn than Latin numbers. Now you might disagree on some of these points. Maybe using a gendered article in front of every word makes the languages easier for you to understand. Maybe for you the article is unnecessary and makes it harder for you to learn, especially when le and la are both abbreviated to l'. But that's the point! Its absolutely subjective. Languages become "dumbed down" in your eyes because you look at languages that evolve closer to concepts you already know from your native language. Italian took away the oh so complicated declensions from Latin and replaced them with easy to learn prepositions. But that's only easier to learn since that's a feature in English. A Russian on the other hand could learn Latin declensions very quickly, but oftentimes have problems with Italian articles and prepositions for a while. Now the question is: is Italian an _objectively_ simplified version of Latin, or is it just _subjectively_ easier for you? And last but not least, we obviously rarely see the real language that was spoken in the past. You can't compare everyday Italian with Latin poetry. In Italy or Greece for example, politicians basically speak a different language from what the normal people speak. Everyone can understand it, but in everyday speech you use different words, simplified grammar, and oftentimes even different word endings. Nobody really talks like politicians or people in TV. The same was obviously true for Latin, where farmers and simple workers used different words, pronunciations, and even grammar than politicians. Caesar was a highly educated politician - you obviously can't compare his Latin to the Italian used in a cheap mafia movie. And Shakespeare was an artist. People back in the day didn't speak in iambic pentameter. Shakespeare literally made up half of his words, just so they fit his meter. People didn't speak like Shakespeare. Yes, his plays were made for the "normal guys", but the normal guys weren't stupid. They would still understand words they didn't actively use. It's really hard to find actual use of early modern English by the normal people because they didn't intend to publish it, and even if they did, it usually wasn't seen as important enough to protect the texts for hundreds (or in the case of Latin even thousands) of years. You only look at Shakespeare, think that from your perspective it's harder to understand than modern English, and then you conclude that the language had to devolve and become dumber, but that's just not true.
@@5HT2A292 You mentioned”…we would all speak the same baby talk today while cavemen must have spoken like the linguistic gods.” Here is a point where we seem to diverge perhaps. Evolutionary theory (man arrived by millions of beneficial accidents) versus Creation (man arrived by the design and will of an intelligent Creator). Yes, there is everything in between (God started evolution or we were dropped of by aliens of some sort). I am a Creationist, accepting the Biblical account as factually and scientifically accurate. No, I am not a scientist although I am a engineer. The history of language is very intriguing (fun). According to the Bible, Adam was the first man. Created from the dust of the earth by God Himself. God breathed into him the breath of life. The Biblical account reveals Adam lived over 900 years. So did many of the Antediluvian people. “Cavemen” were just people who lived to a very old age. Adam originally named all of the animals. So, yes, he “must have spoken like linguistic gods.” The Bible account of the "tower of Babel" says God dispersed those building the tower and "scattered them over the face of the earth" and "...confound(ed) their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." This seems to imply this is where many of the languages originated. Yes @5, from that point in time I do agree with you that the languages (as you stated) " constantly evolve(d) in both ways simultaneously, oftentimes at random, sometimes artificially."
Modern Greek is the evolution of Ancient Greek (I've studied both). The Modern language is obviously a simplified version of the Ancient language. The grammar and syntax is definitely not the same, but not because they are completely different, it's just that Modern Greek is way more simple than their Ancestor's language. When it comes to vocabulary, they're about the same. It's another thing to do research on these topics and languages and another thing to actually study them. It's a wild statement to say these two are completely different languages while one is a direct evolution of the other
There are many different languages they evolved from one to another. They are not contradictory statements. In fact, every modern language evolved from a prior language. Italian, Romanian, Spanish and French all evolved from “a completely different language” called Latin. French is an evolution of Latin. Modern Greek is an evolution of Greek. Do we agree? And French is a different language from Latin because it has different pronunciation, syntax, vocabulary, etc. so with Modern Greek. The fact that native Greek speakers have difficulty understanding Ancient Greek in school, with some failing to understand it despite native fluency, shows that it is not the same language.
I've just come across this video. Superb! Just a quick comment, being a native Greek speaker and all. The fact itself that Greek hasn't been evolved much through the millennia, or rather has evolved quite slowly compared to other languages, older or much newer, is the main reason that we Greeks can read and understand any text given to us from any era. Obviously there will be differences and stuff, but you'll always get the gist of it. Also, just to add to my point, bear in mind, that our "church Greek" is actually the Greek that was spoken and written back in the Byzantine times. :)
Steve: I used your site for reading a couple of books of the bible in Latin and one of your big Latin series. Fantastic tool. It only took me 10 years to figure out how to use it :-)
I remember in Latin class we read a thing from Cicero. He said that young people are afraid of death while old people accept it. It was so human I never thought before and here is a guy who has been dead for over a 2000 years and he is saying this.
The junior high school I went to offered French or Latin in 7th Grade; though it was elective so to speak but we had to choose one. It was interesting but many lost interest and it seemed difficult. I only recall 4 words (puela, puer, equis and equiem) good interview.
That's awesome. I'm excited with english.. I've been trying to learn this language at home and I'm so proud of myself because because isn't easy to achieve the fluency i guess.. after that i intend to learn spanish and french someday 😁
I have followed you, Steve for at least a decade and I have been followed Luke on his three channels for about two years now because I have interest in both modern and ancient languages. It's great to see you together. Have you watched Luke's "We don't talk about Bruno" cover in latin? It's great 😊👍
You are so wrong in thinking that koine Greek is a dead language to modern Greek, friends. You cannot make the connection because you do not speak modern Greek. I will never forget Father John Raffan, a classicist fluent in ancient Greek, married to a Greek lady and convert to orthodoxy as a priest, who admitted to me that having learned modern Greek he realized it is the same language. Granted, syntax and grammar have undergone changes, but the vocabulary and its naturally survived derivatives, not to mention many words that are seemingly non-classical to the untrained ear, is virtually classical Greek survived. Yes, Latin is dead to modern Italian. Greek is diachronically alive and kicking! Intelligent speakers of Greek realize this and are rightly angered when you pronounce their living language dead. And it has a lot to teach you in its present form.
If one considers today the variations of Spanishes spoken around the world, it's possible to better understand that during most of history there was never just one 'proper' Latin of Greek pronunciation. Even Athenian Greek during the golden era under Pericles has some of its own peculiarities that distinguishes it as separate from Attic Greek
Where do you draw the line where changes in a language make an entirely different language? Because it sounds like semantics to me. As a Greek for example I can understand many of the ancient texts without having studied ancient Greek much. That understanding probably covers around 50% of the texts or less but you're still able to follow the narrative of an epic or the Bible for example.
Yo are correct that it is not a clear line. However Portuguese speakers can understand Spanish but they are different languages. Is Tsakonian a different language from Standard Modern Greek? Or a dialect? Can you speak in Attic Greek of the 5th century or of Homer spontaneously about modern topic? A contemporary American can probably understand some Beowulf but we consider it a different language (Old English) even though with study it can be pronounced and understood. An Italian can understand a good percentage of Latin but it is considered a different language Luke’s point is that modern Sardinian bears a closer resemblance to classical Latin than Modern Greek to Ancient. But no one argues that Latin is a living language because it is still spoken in Sardinia. He just wants consistency of standards.
@@choreomaniac I've forgottent what the video was about but still sounds like semantics. I understand that the differences are big enough but I could accept the argument that old English is still English and Italian is latin. There's many dialects of languages where native speakers even have trouble understanding, yet those are considered dialects. Keep in mind I'm not arguing that ancient Greek is or should be considered the same lamguage as modern. You said he's trying to hold all languages to the same standards. I'm just curious what those standards are, because in all your examples (except maybe latin), the distinction was also influenced by the fact that these languages are spoken by entire different countries. Then again, American, uk and Australian English are still considered the same language even though the country is different. At some point in the future I would suspect these to deviate substantially. Will those languages ever get a different name and be considerent different?
@@BillyViBritannia "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." That was first said in Yiddish in the 1940's. Following that standard, 'Murcan has been a separate language since before the time of Noah Webster, who Yanked it out of its English cradle by its bootstraps. "Semantics?" That's the study of the meanings of words. It's exactly what we're on about here.
I love Luke! He is part of a young and very good looking group of YouTune-ers who are trying to bring back reconstructed Latin. My first love was the Metatron, and he lead me to Luke who lead me to Irina. They seem to all support each other. Sometimes I listen to videos where people are teaching ancient Latin in Ancient Latin. I am mostly learning Spanish right now, but I play Latin on duo lingo. Give a shout out to Mr, Briggs he is the one who suggested this channel for me. Mr. Briggs posts a video every day and I often like to translate these words into Latin. Mr. Briggs loves cognates many are words handed down to both English and Spanish from Latin. I really enjoyed this video.
@@abhinavchauhan7864 the metatron has a very interesting channel that includes a lot of information on ancient armor and weapons but he is also a trained linguist and is fluent in reconstructed classical Latin. Irina(not sure if I am spelling her name correctly) has a channel Saturn lynics(sure I did not spell it correctly) I think you should be able to find her by looking at my subscribers lost. My channel consists completely of a bunch of play lists, never made a video yet
@@abhinavchauhan7864 Abhinav some great Latin channels to check out are "Satura Lanx" and "Musa Pedestris". Irina is on Satura Lanix and Musa Pedetris is another of my favorites. Like I said you can see all my subscriptions under my channels I think. The two I recommended are dedicated to speaking in classical reconstructed Latin. I think I might have a Latin play list as well.
Something that's confused my father is my Pop (his father)'s grasp of ancient languages for his ministry post war until his lovely daughter was born and something was covered up, Greek and Hebrew mainly. Is modern always better?
There's evidence in Acts 17 that Athenians (at least Athenian philosophers) were talking more archaicly than most Greek speakers. Outside of that chapter, the optative occurs mainly in set phrases like "Μη γενοιτο!" (No way!). In Athens, though, Paul, who had probably been coached by Timothy, and the philosophers use various verbs in the optative. I learned Greek by reading the NT. Classical Greek is somewhat foreign to me, but the Elements, written about the start of the Koine period, are not. A few verb forms are different, and it's about math, not religion, but there are no duals (e.g. δυσιν ορθιαις ισαι εισιν) and none of the obscure (to me) vocabulary of the classics. Modern Greek still has movable nu (though some nu are fixed in Ancient Greek and movable in Modern Greek) and enclitics whose accent falls on the previous word.
To Luke: If you ever become fluent in high modern Greek, you will realize that your assessment is what is dead regarding our ancient form of language. And us, the infinitive, the dative and many forms you judge dead by are still alive and kicking. As for our vocabulary (old and new) it regurgitates its perennial morphemes and particles to provide access to linguistic infinity, past and present. As a case in point, you rightly mention that there are always people revitalising classical forms of their Greek language. This stems from the fact that modern Greek words and grammar in their “devolved” form are a constant reminder of their ancient siblings. This is also the case with Latin, although people fluent in demotic and Ancient Greek will tell you how much less Greek has changed than Latin over the years. Besides, what is wrong with being conservative when one preserves beauty?
Just get Lingua Latina per se Illustrata It’s literally 100% comprehensive input. It actually teaches you tyr grammar IN THE LANGUAGE ITSELF. It’s like someone mad a book on Latin specifically designed for Steve
It seems very, very odd to me that Steve, whom I admire hugely, would learn 20 or so languages and "shun" Latin. (If you're seeing this, Steve, we'd love to hear you talk about that.)
Latin was replaced by five different languages, while Greek remained one single language which changed from within. This is why there are Romantic languages (which took the place of Latin), but there are no Greek-originated languages. Italian to Latin is not as close as Ancient and Modern Greek. Both in terms of grammar and in terms of vocabulary.
Is he an native english speaker as well? I don't know him thanks for always inspiring me on my online Live, he said animo? Ok, is that new animations?😂
Steve Kaufmann you no serious linguist, as The Hellenic language is NOT dead, as Latin IS dead. Get yourself an education on how Ancient Greek is still spoken today.
The ancient Greek is not a dead language because it was evolved to modern Greek and it has a great revelance! Such a comment as the ancient Greek language is dead shows great ingorance!
And Latin evolved into the romance languages which are widely spoken today, so? Still a dead language. Spanish, Italian, Portuguese etc etc come from Latin but are not Latin. Same goes for ancient and modern Greek, they are not the same language despite having the same name. But I get it, as a greek you will deny it.
Ancient Greek is dead, but it never died. This is difficult to understand but it is a technical linguistics term. 'Dead' simply means 'no native speakers. There are no native speakers of Ancient Greek, so it is dead.
@@Philoglossos bro wtf? No so then the greeks of 800 bc, isn't the same language of 200ac,greek? Its all greek. Like it or not it's the same language. Language evolved. But that doesn't mean that there isn't the same anymore. Bro literally take me back at 1022 and i will communicate. I will understand 70 to 80 percent of the conversation. And no i dont have studied nothing.
@@basilaras0170 Relax. Modern Greek is quite conservative, so yes, you would understand a lot of spoken Greek from 1000 AD. Hell, given that you have probably had a lot of exposure to Katharevousa and Koine Greek, you might even be able to communicate with a Greek speaker from 1500 years ago. However, 2500 years ago you would not be able to communicate very well at all, especially given how drastically the pronunciation of Greek has changed. Greek of course never became a different language (it never died) but the Greek of today by the standard of mutual intelligibility is not the same language as classical Attic. Let me give you another example to make this clear - does a Portuguese person speak the same language as a Sicilian? Of course not, they are two distinct, though related, languages. However, if you hop from village to village first from Portugal into Galicia, then from Galicia into Asturias, then into Aragon, then into Catalunya, then into Occitania, then into Liguria, then into Lombardia and Veneto, then into Tuscany, then into Lazio, then into Campania, then Calabria, and Finally into Sicily, you will find an unbroken chain of villages where people understand each other perfectly. In the same vein, there is an unbroken chain between your language and Ancient Greek, but your language is not the same as Ancient Greek, nor are you capable of speaking Ancient Greek. Nobody is a native speaker of Ancient Greek, so it is a dead language, even though it never died and its descendent continues to be spoken today.
Fortunately, there are "educated" people like you to teach us our language. You can not pronounce the name of Lucian in Hellenic and you do not know the word "κοινή". Of course, you have nothing to do with the Hellenic language, because you learned it in America from the teaching of Erasmus, who had NEVER heard Hellenics. Too bad, you still want a lot of reading, as well as studies in Hellas. Υ.Γ. I would like you to put in your listeners, the cassette with the speech of Demosthenes so that they can hear what was the real accent of the Ancient Hellenes.
Luke can pronounce Greek with the modern pronunciation as well. Why are so many Greeks so incapable of understanding that the sound of the language has changed over time? The ancient sources describe the pronunciation and the modern dialects preserve many ancient pronunciation features. Don't be silly. Also, Luke doesn't use Erasmian pronunciation. Erasmus is not the basis for the modern reconstruction of how ancient greek sounded.
It was kind of cringy to hear him say that koine Greek and modern Greek were different languages. I am learning modern Greek as a second language, and I have read multiple books of the new testament in the original koine Greek and understood everything, and I have never studied koine Greek Grammer before, only modern. When I heard him say that I was like, oh so this guy actually doesn't know Greek and is just a bozo.
Greek its not a dead language from the past. But if you're not satisfied? Tsakonika (doric) there are still alive there 2000 people in greece that they spoke doric greek.
@@manfredneilmann4305 The antiquity of Tamil is an article of faith among Tamil chauvinists, but it is not based on any evidence. Some of them used to claim that Elamite was ancient Tamil, others the language of the Indus Valley seals, but that was without either's having being deciphered.
![Conversation: Ancient Greek vs. Modern Greek [SUB ESP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vDojnOSporE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Conversation: Ancient Greek vs. Modern Greek [SUB ESP]](/img/tr.png)
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Steve why don't you learn Tamil language
Standard Arabic is even more conservative than Greek. The difference between Classical and MSA isn't that big.
Thanks so much for inviting me to speak with you, Steve! I have a lot more questions for you for future chats we can do. You’re an inspiration to us all!
Grande... non conoscevo l'etimologia della parola matematica
Un caro saluto dalla calabria ;-)
Come a long way since Yokota brother!! Good to see you!
Great video Luke!
@@MrDomberto Yes I agree, Steve should do more of these videos because he’s such a famous person in this field of languages!
We have to do it again! Thanks for dropping by.
Coming home from work and seeing a crossover between Luke and Steve was such a treat!
Indeed it was, mental candy.
Sir Kaufmann's love for history shines in this episode, as does his polite guest's for ancient languages!
Now, this is awesome. Latin and Sanskrit are two of my favorite classical languages and I love seeing more people speak about them.
If you learn Sanskrit to a high level you’ll have language learning superpowers
@@evaphillips2102 Bingo! Mastering classical languages gives you a leg up in all the languages that derive from them.
WTF. भवान् संस्कृतं भाषते ?????? Really surprised to some that there are people who like sanskrit. All i do whole day study sanskrit
@@evaphillips2102 really ?
If you were my grandfather, you would know Greek (ancient I think, he spent hours reciting the gospel of Luke alone for no reason back to front), ancient Hebrew and Latin. Religious ministers like him had to.
Hi...I am a student at theAncient Language Institute studying Ancient Greek. Luke, I love your readings for Athenaze. And I especially enjoy your circling the chapters..you read with so much feeling and pathos that I feel like I know Dicapolois, Myrrhine, Melitta, Phillipos and the Grandfather!!! Thank you so much!!!
Holy darn that guy has a great voice
It's really cool, I opened UA-cam and your two videos with each other were side by side on my front page lol
It's about the guest, this was one of the most interesting chats I've seen in the channel, even with other guests talking about other languages that I'm more interested in
I remember the shock I felt when in Louvre I saw a stone inscription with names of Athenians who died in a military expedition, and among other names I saw my own name. 'Demetrios' was written on the stone. And yes, this was the feeling of connection with that ancient Dimitri across 2500 years, multiplied by the fact that yes, I can read the letters written by the hands of people who new that guy, that ancient kin of mine, my doppelganger, my incarnation, another me.
This is something that as an Australian I really feel I miss out on. Where I live, 'ancient history' goes back like 200 years. Typically ancient relics in museums here have a black and white photo next to them of the item in its heydey, which gives you the idea that really it is not very old.
Good thing Steve finally had Luke on! Salvete, amici!
Man I thought I was in a dream when I saw this video in my feed, this is gonna be something special I can already tell
Luke is so interesting! I love how he evaluates the usage of ancient languages in video games.
Luke sounds like a radio personality. His voice is just solid!
More interviews with Luke!
And overall videos featuring ancient languages would be interesting!
This is such an amazing crossover :)
Finally! I was waiting for a video about ancient languages for ages!
Great questions, great anwers, great video!
Thank you Steve for this important video .
They're two of my favorite UA-cam creators; 👍 Salve! I tried Latin for a few weeks but had to give it up for lack of time; I still enjoyed it, though, Accusativus, Nominativus, Ablativus, Wheelock's Latin, etc.
Wonderful questions Steve, this guy really is interesting. I loved the sentiment about the horse races, so true.
I would love to learn Latin and Greek after French, Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese. I'm on French, though, right now. Great discussion! I'd like to learn for philosophy and theology.
That's awesome. I intend to learn Spanish and French after english.. by the way my first language is portuguese. You'll get there
@@yuriart6391 Obrigada! I love the sound of Portuguese. Good luck to you as well!
@@religion_schilling anytime, thanks. Have a nice day
Hey you might get the Latin languages faster and more easily if you study Latin first. Just sayin☺️
@@evaphillips2102 That is a great idea! It was something I was wondering about as well . . .
Happy to see this!
New Greek is the evolution of Ancient Greek, my friend. As a Greek I want to say that we are still taught ancient Greek in school. The new Greek is more simplified. In addition, we use many ancient Greek phrases in our daily life. It is a living language found in various Greek dialects.
I do love using your LingQ Latin to help keep my Latin going. I also love finding Latin translations of books to read.
Gratias tibi valde! :) So many interesting things out there to explore and just so much time... Thank you very much for that fascinating view into ancient languages.
Steve Kaufmann has said something profound, learning languages can help you to connect to other people and culture in space and in time. I am learning European languages and I actually do it to learn the culture. I usually start reading the traditional tales, legends, myths of the country to understand their way of thinking and their morals. Then their geography, history, music, art, literature… I used to like strategy and civilizations video games, then I liked reading the classic and about ancient conquerors, but now I am sort of “conquering Europe” through their languages 😂 after all if you also have the chance of living in those countries during certain period of your life, they become a part of yourself.
I started learning modern Greek last summer, because I was going to Athens and I wanted to learn some “conversation” sentences as a part of the fun of visiting a foreign country: try to order things, or ask for directions in the native language. I actually liked it SO MUCH! I could read and understand a few of basics… ! And it is fun to find words that sound you etymologically or that you see they come from another language (some clothes words seem to come from Italian… Venetian?) I remember as a little child being completely crazy when I learned to read, I tried to read everything I could, i.e. in the car I tried to read the written things in the street before we passed them by car. Learning Greek actually remembered me that childhood frenzyness to read and learn. However, I have promised myself to not continue learning Greek for the moment. I should improve first other languages I already know.
Awesome! This guy is brilliant.
awesome collab!
So happy you two collaborated!
two of my favourite youtubers, this will be fun 😁
Hi Steve, thanks for the another interesting interview! 🙋♂️👍 You're not only a great tutor of English, you also regularly bring really interesting topics for us! 😊👏 Although "Dead Languages" are exciting to learn, I'm going to focus only on English, since I'm trying to help other people speak English without fear of mistakes 😁 I wish you guys all the best! 🙌😊 Let's boost our English speaking skills together! 💪🤩
Superb! Thanks for the upload 💜
Very nice interview! Super interesting
Two very important Biblical languages. Love studying them.
Are languages really evolving? Or are they devolving? Shakespeare seems higher than the contemporary.
Good video! Worth watching! Thanks!
Shakespeare is held in high regard, but he's an extreme. There are literary greats today. It's going to take generations for any of them to be revered like Shakespeare. But, language is 100% evolving.
@@channelnumber52
Hello. You said “Shakespeare is … an extreme.“.
Perhaps. But, he wrote to an audience that understood him.
One question I have, if languages are "evolving“ rather than “devolving“ why where there more earlier on and less and less and history marches on?
My opinion at the moment is that men have advanced technologically (better toys and tools) but the human individual capability has not itself evolved. Man was created rather than evolving from a lower life form.
@@larryclark9380 Shakespear isn't higher per se, but it it his popularity that made his language the basis of what people thought of as higher language.
If languages only devolved without evolving, then we would all speak the same baby talk today while cavemen must've spoken like linguistic gods. Obviously that's not true.
Take Latin and Romance languages for example. Latin didn't have articles because it didn't need them, Romance languages do have them. Now usually they are still unnecessary. L'histoire in most cases doesn't add more information than what could be said with histoire. Modern Romance articles come from the Latin ille/illa/illud which hundreds of years after its original use started to become a mandatory article.
Another example would be pronoun dropping. In Latin you don't have to use personal pronouns, they are just used for emphasis. I'm from England is just Anglia sum, not Ego Anglia sum. Sum already means I am, you don't have to say I I am. In Italian it would be sono di Inghilterra, not io sono di Inghilterra, that would sounds wrong. In French however, you have to say Je viens d'Angleterre, you can't just say viens d'Angleterre. There is no pronoun dropping in French anymore, the language has become more complex. And that for apparently no reason. It's absolutely possible that pronoun dropping could be reintroduced into French in a couple hundred years.
These changes happened naturally. But in many languages, like Slavic, Romance, or Hellenic languages, there are countless examples of people artificially making the language more complex by introducing older words and concepts into a modern languages. And these people succeeded. Right now we see the introduction of a whole new gender in Spanish. Amigo is male, amiga is female, and amige is neuter. And they are surprisingly successful. I would be surprised if in a hundred years that's a normal feature of the language, even though Spaniards haven't used a neuter gender in a thousand years.
As you can see, languages constantly evolve in both ways simultaneously, oftentimes at random, sometimes artificially. The transition of pronouncing 42 as forty-two and not two-and-fourty is one that almost every European language made artificially, to make them easier. Meanwhile French numbers are harder to learn than Latin numbers.
Now you might disagree on some of these points. Maybe using a gendered article in front of every word makes the languages easier for you to understand. Maybe for you the article is unnecessary and makes it harder for you to learn, especially when le and la are both abbreviated to l'. But that's the point! Its absolutely subjective.
Languages become "dumbed down" in your eyes because you look at languages that evolve closer to concepts you already know from your native language. Italian took away the oh so complicated declensions from Latin and replaced them with easy to learn prepositions. But that's only easier to learn since that's a feature in English. A Russian on the other hand could learn Latin declensions very quickly, but oftentimes have problems with Italian articles and prepositions for a while. Now the question is: is Italian an _objectively_ simplified version of Latin, or is it just _subjectively_ easier for you?
And last but not least, we obviously rarely see the real language that was spoken in the past. You can't compare everyday Italian with Latin poetry. In Italy or Greece for example, politicians basically speak a different language from what the normal people speak. Everyone can understand it, but in everyday speech you use different words, simplified grammar, and oftentimes even different word endings. Nobody really talks like politicians or people in TV. The same was obviously true for Latin, where farmers and simple workers used different words, pronunciations, and even grammar than politicians. Caesar was a highly educated politician - you obviously can't compare his Latin to the Italian used in a cheap mafia movie.
And Shakespeare was an artist. People back in the day didn't speak in iambic pentameter. Shakespeare literally made up half of his words, just so they fit his meter. People didn't speak like Shakespeare. Yes, his plays were made for the "normal guys", but the normal guys weren't stupid. They would still understand words they didn't actively use.
It's really hard to find actual use of early modern English by the normal people because they didn't intend to publish it, and even if they did, it usually wasn't seen as important enough to protect the texts for hundreds (or in the case of Latin even thousands) of years.
You only look at Shakespeare, think that from your perspective it's harder to understand than modern English, and then you conclude that the language had to devolve and become dumber, but that's just not true.
@@5HT2A292 You mentioned”…we would all speak the same baby talk today while cavemen must have spoken like the linguistic gods.”
Here is a point where we seem to diverge perhaps.
Evolutionary theory (man arrived by millions of beneficial accidents) versus Creation (man arrived by the design and will of an intelligent Creator). Yes, there is everything in between (God started evolution or we were dropped of by aliens of some sort).
I am a Creationist, accepting the Biblical account as factually and scientifically accurate. No, I am not a scientist although I am a engineer. The history of language is very intriguing (fun).
According to the Bible, Adam was the first man. Created from the dust of the earth by God Himself. God breathed into him the breath of life. The Biblical account reveals Adam lived over 900 years. So did many of the Antediluvian people.
“Cavemen” were just people who lived to a very old age.
Adam originally named all of the animals. So, yes, he “must have spoken like linguistic gods.”
The Bible account of the "tower of Babel" says God dispersed those building the tower and "scattered them over the face of the earth" and "...confound(ed) their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."
This seems to imply this is where many of the languages originated.
Yes @5, from that point in time I do agree with you that the languages (as you stated) " constantly evolve(d) in both ways simultaneously, oftentimes at random, sometimes artificially."
Modern Greek is the evolution of Ancient Greek (I've studied both). The Modern language is obviously a simplified version of the Ancient language. The grammar and syntax is definitely not the same, but not because they are completely different, it's just that Modern Greek is way more simple than their Ancestor's language. When it comes to vocabulary, they're about the same.
It's another thing to do research on these topics and languages and another thing to actually study them. It's a wild statement to say these two are completely different languages while one is a direct evolution of the other
There are many different languages they evolved from one to another. They are not contradictory statements. In fact, every modern language evolved from a prior language. Italian, Romanian, Spanish and French all evolved from “a completely different language” called Latin. French is an evolution of Latin. Modern Greek is an evolution of Greek. Do we agree? And French is a different language from Latin because it has different pronunciation, syntax, vocabulary, etc. so with Modern Greek.
The fact that native Greek speakers have difficulty understanding Ancient Greek in school, with some failing to understand it despite native fluency, shows that it is not the same language.
I font LIKE the term dead languages, cause language is a living, continuously evolving system.
I've just come across this video. Superb! Just a quick comment, being a native Greek speaker and all. The fact itself that Greek hasn't been evolved much through the millennia, or rather has evolved quite slowly compared to other languages, older or much newer, is the main reason that we Greeks can read and understand any text given to us from any era. Obviously there will be differences and stuff, but you'll always get the gist of it. Also, just to add to my point, bear in mind, that our "church Greek" is actually the Greek that was spoken and written back in the Byzantine times. :)
the connection opinion is so great.
Steve: I used your site for reading a couple of books of the bible in Latin and one of your big Latin series. Fantastic tool. It only took me 10 years to figure out how to use it :-)
I remember in Latin class we read a thing from Cicero. He said that young people are afraid of death while old people accept it. It was so human I never thought before and here is a guy who has been dead for over a 2000 years and he is saying this.
Thanks for making these videos. I enjoy them.
The junior high school I went to offered French or Latin in 7th Grade; though it was elective so to speak but we had to choose one. It was interesting but many lost interest and it seemed difficult. I only recall 4 words (puela, puer, equis and equiem) good interview.
Ancient Greek is not a dead language! It is still a major part of the contemporary Greek!
Mini stories in Latin at lingq would be great.
Ancient languages are very based. Direct access to works that have stood the test of time
That's awesome. I'm excited with english.. I've been trying to learn this language at home and I'm so proud of myself because because isn't easy to achieve the fluency i guess.. after that i intend to learn spanish and french someday 😁
I have followed you, Steve for at least a decade and I have been followed Luke on his three channels for about two years now because I have interest in both modern and ancient languages. It's great to see you together. Have you watched Luke's "We don't talk about Bruno" cover in latin? It's great 😊👍
I had to take latin as a compulsory subject studying law.
Wow---these two dudes actually came along at each other---generating thereby an uncanny string of sparks within the poliglotal sphere
The fact that this happened!
Fascinating!
This video does sort of compel me to get into Latin and Greek
You are so wrong in thinking that koine Greek is a dead language to modern Greek, friends. You cannot make the connection because you do not speak modern Greek.
I will never forget Father John Raffan, a classicist fluent in ancient Greek, married to a Greek lady and convert to orthodoxy as a priest, who admitted to me that having learned modern Greek he realized it is the same language. Granted, syntax and grammar have undergone changes, but the vocabulary and its naturally survived derivatives, not to mention many words that are seemingly non-classical to the untrained ear, is virtually classical Greek survived. Yes, Latin is dead to modern Italian. Greek is diachronically alive and kicking!
Intelligent speakers of Greek realize this and are rightly angered when you pronounce their living language dead. And it has a lot to teach you in its present form.
If one considers today the variations of Spanishes spoken around the world, it's possible to better understand that during most of history there was never just one 'proper' Latin of Greek pronunciation. Even Athenian Greek during the golden era under Pericles has some of its own peculiarities that distinguishes it as separate from Attic Greek
Where do you draw the line where changes in a language make an entirely different language? Because it sounds like semantics to me.
As a Greek for example I can understand many of the ancient texts without having studied ancient Greek much. That understanding probably covers around 50% of the texts or less but you're still able to follow the narrative of an epic or the Bible for example.
Yo are correct that it is not a clear line. However Portuguese speakers can understand Spanish but they are different languages.
Is Tsakonian a different language from Standard Modern Greek? Or a dialect? Can you speak in Attic Greek of the 5th century or of Homer spontaneously about modern topic? A contemporary American can probably understand some Beowulf but we consider it a different language (Old English) even though with study it can be pronounced and understood. An Italian can understand a good percentage of Latin but it is considered a different language
Luke’s point is that modern Sardinian bears a closer resemblance to classical Latin than Modern Greek to Ancient. But no one argues that Latin is a living language because it is still spoken in Sardinia. He just wants consistency of standards.
@@choreomaniac I've forgottent what the video was about but still sounds like semantics. I understand that the differences are big enough but I could accept the argument that old English is still English and Italian is latin. There's many dialects of languages where native speakers even have trouble understanding, yet those are considered dialects.
Keep in mind I'm not arguing that ancient Greek is or should be considered the same lamguage as modern. You said he's trying to hold all languages to the same standards. I'm just curious what those standards are, because in all your examples (except maybe latin), the distinction was also influenced by the fact that these languages are spoken by entire different countries.
Then again, American, uk and Australian English are still considered the same language even though the country is different. At some point in the future I would suspect these to deviate substantially. Will those languages ever get a different name and be considerent different?
@@BillyViBritannia "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." That was first said in Yiddish in the 1940's. Following that standard, 'Murcan has been a separate language since before the time of Noah Webster, who Yanked it out of its English cradle by its bootstraps. "Semantics?" That's the study of the meanings of words. It's exactly what we're on about here.
Ancient Greek and Latin are the ancestors to so many languages today, so they're not totally dead
I love Luke! He is part of a young and very good looking group of YouTune-ers who are trying to bring back reconstructed Latin. My first love was the Metatron, and he lead me to Luke who lead me to Irina. They seem to all support each other. Sometimes I listen to videos where people are teaching ancient Latin in Ancient Latin. I am mostly learning Spanish right now, but I play Latin on duo lingo.
Give a shout out to Mr, Briggs he is the one who suggested this channel for me. Mr. Briggs posts a video every day and I often like to translate these words into Latin. Mr. Briggs loves cognates many are words handed down to both English and Spanish from Latin.
I really enjoyed this video.
Who are these metatro and irina?
@@abhinavchauhan7864 the metatron has a very interesting channel that includes a lot of information on ancient armor and weapons but he is also a trained linguist and is fluent in reconstructed classical Latin. Irina(not sure if I am spelling her name correctly) has a channel Saturn lynics(sure I did not spell it correctly) I think you should be able to find her by looking at my subscribers lost. My channel consists completely of a bunch of play lists, never made a video yet
@@ericbaugher thank you so much brother
@@abhinavchauhan7864 Abhinav some great Latin channels to check out are "Satura Lanx" and "Musa Pedestris". Irina is on Satura Lanix and Musa Pedetris is another of my favorites. Like I said you can see all my subscriptions under my channels I think. The two I recommended are dedicated to speaking in classical reconstructed Latin. I think I might have a Latin play list as well.
@@ericbaugher wow. You've no idea how helpful your comment are. Thank you for taking the time to write that much 🤗
Something that's confused my father is my Pop (his father)'s grasp of ancient languages for his ministry post war until his lovely daughter was born and something was covered up, Greek and Hebrew mainly. Is modern always better?
Depends what you are interested in.
I literally started reading the Vulgate in Latin like 4 days ago haha
Steve, have you ever considered learning any sign languages?
There's evidence in Acts 17 that Athenians (at least Athenian philosophers) were talking more archaicly than most Greek speakers. Outside of that chapter, the optative occurs mainly in set phrases like "Μη γενοιτο!" (No way!). In Athens, though, Paul, who had probably been coached by Timothy, and the philosophers use various verbs in the optative.
I learned Greek by reading the NT. Classical Greek is somewhat foreign to me, but the Elements, written about the start of the Koine period, are not. A few verb forms are different, and it's about math, not religion, but there are no duals (e.g. δυσιν ορθιαις ισαι εισιν) and none of the obscure (to me) vocabulary of the classics.
Modern Greek still has movable nu (though some nu are fixed in Ancient Greek and movable in Modern Greek) and enclitics whose accent falls on the previous word.
Is there a particular workflow you can recommend to learn Greek this way? What did you do exactly? I would love to hear from you!
@@jb_1971 I'm not sure what you mean by a workflow. I got an interlinear and started reading it.
To Luke: If you ever become fluent in high modern Greek, you will realize that your assessment is what is dead regarding our ancient form of language. And us, the infinitive, the dative and many forms you judge dead by are still alive and kicking. As for our vocabulary (old and new) it regurgitates its perennial morphemes and particles to provide access to linguistic infinity, past and present.
As a case in point, you rightly mention that there are always people revitalising classical forms of their Greek language. This stems from the fact that modern Greek words and grammar in their “devolved” form are a constant reminder of their ancient siblings.
This is also the case with Latin, although people fluent in demotic and Ancient Greek will tell you how much less Greek has changed than Latin over the years.
Besides, what is wrong with being conservative when one preserves beauty?
Unfortunately, Latin has been poisoned for me by the countless grammar drills and vocabulary tests I had to do in school.
Latin doesn't need to be studied that way.
Just get Lingua Latina per se Illustrata
It’s literally 100% comprehensive input. It actually teaches you tyr grammar IN THE LANGUAGE ITSELF.
It’s like someone mad a book on Latin specifically designed for Steve
I didn't understand almost anything 😅, but I got a good level of listening .
It seems very, very odd to me that Steve, whom I admire hugely, would learn 20 or so languages and "shun" Latin. (If you're seeing this, Steve, we'd love to hear you talk about that.)
Latin was replaced by five different languages, while Greek remained one single language which changed from within. This is why there are Romantic languages (which took the place of Latin), but there are no Greek-originated languages. Italian to Latin is not as close as Ancient and Modern Greek. Both in terms of grammar and in terms of vocabulary.
Π Ο Λ Υ Μ Α Θ Η Σ
Latin is resurgent. It's appeal is manifold. Easier to learn now than ever before.. or at least since one had to at sword point.
Greek isn't dead language
Louis CK - Alternate Version
Is he an native english speaker as well? I don't know him thanks for always inspiring me on my online Live, he said animo? Ok, is that new animations?😂
Legō uīcēsimum secundum Ammiānī Marcellīnī librum, quī Imperātōrem Iūliānum commemorat. Possum, quod maiōrēs linguam Latīnam conseruāuēre.
Greek is not a dead language.
Anime has nothing to do with my interest in Japanese language hahaha. But the nipponic past is very attractive.
No love for sanskrit 😢😢
I maybe wrong but I do not consider Latin as a dead language . Latin words are used in every day life.
Steve Kaufmann you no serious linguist, as The Hellenic language is NOT dead, as Latin IS dead. Get yourself an education on how Ancient Greek is still spoken today.
👍
Latin is the ancient Romance language
05:05 bellum in latin blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah… 😅😂🤣
Sint mortuae reapse linguae antiquae, vivunt in animis nostris.
The ancient Greek is not a dead language because it was evolved to modern Greek and it has a great revelance! Such a comment as the ancient Greek language is dead shows great ingorance!
And Latin evolved into the romance languages which are widely spoken today, so? Still a dead language. Spanish, Italian, Portuguese etc etc come from Latin but are not Latin. Same goes for ancient and modern Greek, they are not the same language despite having the same name. But I get it, as a greek you will deny it.
So good to know the ancient Egypt language is not a dead language since we still have egyptians alive today 😂😂
Ancient Greek is dead, but it never died. This is difficult to understand but it is a technical linguistics term. 'Dead' simply means 'no native speakers. There are no native speakers of Ancient Greek, so it is dead.
@@Philoglossos bro wtf? No so then the greeks of 800 bc, isn't the same language of 200ac,greek? Its all greek. Like it or not it's the same language. Language evolved. But that doesn't mean that there isn't the same anymore. Bro literally take me back at 1022 and i will communicate. I will understand 70 to 80 percent of the conversation. And no i dont have studied nothing.
@@basilaras0170 Relax. Modern Greek is quite conservative, so yes, you would understand a lot of spoken Greek from 1000 AD. Hell, given that you have probably had a lot of exposure to Katharevousa and Koine Greek, you might even be able to communicate with a Greek speaker from 1500 years ago. However, 2500 years ago you would not be able to communicate very well at all, especially given how drastically the pronunciation of Greek has changed. Greek of course never became a different language (it never died) but the Greek of today by the standard of mutual intelligibility is not the same language as classical Attic. Let me give you another example to make this clear - does a Portuguese person speak the same language as a Sicilian? Of course not, they are two distinct, though related, languages. However, if you hop from village to village first from Portugal into Galicia, then from Galicia into Asturias, then into Aragon, then into Catalunya, then into Occitania, then into Liguria, then into Lombardia and Veneto, then into Tuscany, then into Lazio, then into Campania, then Calabria, and Finally into Sicily, you will find an unbroken chain of villages where people understand each other perfectly.
In the same vein, there is an unbroken chain between your language and Ancient Greek, but your language is not the same as Ancient Greek, nor are you capable of speaking Ancient Greek. Nobody is a native speaker of Ancient Greek, so it is a dead language, even though it never died and its descendent continues to be spoken today.
why does he look yellow lmaooo
Is Latin a dead language? try removing the Latin from English and see what remains of English
Fortunately, there are "educated" people like you to teach us our language. You can not pronounce the name of Lucian in Hellenic and you do not know the word "κοινή". Of course, you have nothing to do with the Hellenic language, because you learned it in America from the teaching of Erasmus, who had NEVER heard Hellenics. Too bad, you still want a lot of reading, as well as studies in Hellas.
Υ.Γ. I would like you to put in your listeners, the cassette with the speech of Demosthenes so that they can hear what was the real accent of the Ancient Hellenes.
Luke can pronounce Greek with the modern pronunciation as well. Why are so many Greeks so incapable of understanding that the sound of the language has changed over time? The ancient sources describe the pronunciation and the modern dialects preserve many ancient pronunciation features. Don't be silly. Also, Luke doesn't use Erasmian pronunciation. Erasmus is not the basis for the modern reconstruction of how ancient greek sounded.
It was kind of cringy to hear him say that koine Greek and modern Greek were different languages. I am learning modern Greek as a second language, and I have read multiple books of the new testament in the original koine Greek and understood everything, and I have never studied koine Greek Grammer before, only modern. When I heard him say that I was like, oh so this guy actually doesn't know Greek and is just a bozo.
@@InterFīnumRērum Yet he speaks it fluently 🤡🤡🤡
You know what language of the classic world is not dead yet?
Tamil
From my limited knowledge of Tamil, it's modern form is just as unlike it's classical form as Greek is.
Wikipedia also numbers Hebrew and Arabic as classical languages. They are still alive
Greek its not a dead language from the past. But if you're not satisfied? Tsakonika (doric) there are still alive there 2000 people in greece that they spoke doric greek.
@@basilaras0170 oh
You forgot ANCIENT HEBREW, as if Israel was not part of the "ancient world"... and what could be more "classic" than the Bible?
Biblical studies are not a part of Classics 😂😂
Tamil is oldest language in the world.
No it is not. There is no 'oldest language'. Don't post silly nationalistic propaganda on UA-cam, nobody cares.
So how old is it then?
@@manfredneilmann4305 The antiquity of Tamil is an article of faith among Tamil chauvinists, but it is not based on any evidence. Some of them used to claim that Elamite was ancient Tamil, others the language of the Indus Valley seals, but that was without either's having being deciphered.
Greek is not “dead”.
*Ancient* greek is
@@SaneTheBroNo