Wasting 30-50 minutes to get 50g in the end. without a currency to buy the items I want and need in the end, without a bad luck system. It‘s just not worth it!
And that's if your group times it. Heck you can sometimes spend waiting up to an hour waiting to get the group filled. Only to brick a key halfway through. So u can waste up to a hour or more on a key you might not finish. The whole system needs a redesign, I feel like I'm paying Blizz to work a job lol.
The thing about M+ is that it's not about the reward at the end, it's about the score at the end of the season. If you're a loot goblin doing it for shiny gear, you won't like it.
@@VDHmain If that were true why does it drop gear at all, because Blizz knows 100% of the player base does in fact do it for gear. The only difference is some only do it for gear, while others do it to get gear to push higher.
@@VDHmain Here's the thing you didn't say high keys in your post, you said people don't do M+ for gear. Anything from a 2+ to 10+ people do for gear, anything over that they do for score. 85% to 90% of people that do M+ do it for gear or go past 10s for portals and titles. Most people don't give AF after that.
my biggest issue with the whole system, and I'm surprised at how little I see people talk about this, are the weekly crest caps. It feels so bad when I just need 45-60 more crests and my progress is completely halted for an entire WEEK when the cap increases slightly.
I got my season mount reward as a Resto Shaman and I'm done with the rest of the season. Blizzard has to PAY me higher than minimum wage for me to run another Mythic+. I can't imagine what the gameplay experience must feel like for other healers. This is why the current group finder takes more than an hour to form for high keys, no sane healer wants to play your damn game Blizzard, wake up.
Man as a healer i will always leave if people are constantly not hitting mechanics and that I’m not burning myself out on wow and quitting because people don’t want to accept it’s not my responsibility alone to keep everyone alive
I run as Dev / Pres evoker and the damage intake is not "smooth". There are too many unavoidable damage abilities from mobs that hits for 70% or more of a dps/healers health pool and if the same target gets double dipped they die, Corruptor in Grim for example. And if I get the damage rng as a healer it will be a wipe. Dumb.
if you have a brain and fingers, that 70% telegraphed ability that the mob casts every dungeon can be mitigated with defensives. nothing really 1 shots you in pve if you respond
@@goondawg420-fp5nx I can see you haven't actually done any M+. Double hatchet from Stich flesh mobs in Necro will kill their target, there is no getting away from it. Your defensives don't mitigate enough, you can't CC them. They pick the same person that person is dead unless it's the tank. Same goes for corruption from the the corrupters in Grim, the two right before the final boss will channel the corruption at the same time and might pick the same person. You can't CC them can't do anything, you just die in 3 ticks. How about chain pulls + slobber knocker in Siege, if that happens at the same time everyone is cleaved dead instantly. Again nothing can be done. Just unavoidable guaranteed deaths. It's stupid. Not to mention that there are so many hard hitting unavoidable damage from trash mobs many classes will just run out of defensive CDs and are basically dead on the next round if they are unlucky. There is far too much damage rng for many packs to be "smooth" damage. The same dps getting targeted over and over and over again by the unavoidable spell or curse essentially means they die.
@@Cheeky_Bandit Exactly this! There are mechanics that will simply one shot you if they targeted anyone other than the tank, unless you are a class with invincibility of course. Worst seasonal balance ever.
I'm farming crests at +8 and +9 currently and doing fine finally, especially since every so often I can now actually upgrade my gear and as a tank I start to feel tanky again - even timed the first +10 by now. But man, that jump from ~+6/+7 to +9 (before the fix to crests for +8s) was quite hard as a tank when a lot of stuff just knocks you out with no way to actually work on your gear beforehand. There certainly was quite the gap and it's kind of funny that now keys get easier again - feels weird from a progression standpoint.
But the damage has already been done, Most healers have quit Mythic+ at this point if not the game all together. The few Resto Shaman still playing are already running with static groups. Higher keys take long time to form, +10 takes hours to form especially. I wonder how Blizzard is going to fix things at this point.
M+ only dropping 2 pieces of gear is a SEVERELY outdated reward structure. Every bountiful delve gives me a piece of good ilv gear... even if it's not guaranteed to be an upgrade, it's SOMETHING, and it's coming from much less punishing content. M+ is harder, takes a MUCH bigger time investment to even get into one (as DPS), is more easily failed, depends on the mental fortitude of strangers, and doesn't guarantee anything at all except enough crests for a partial upgrade. NOT EVEN A WHOLE UPGRADE. My main has been running delves, dungeons, and LFR daily since the xpac released, and he's still got a 1h weapon from the first week of heroics. Gear drops are just abysmal. It's time to reassess M+ rewards. At the very least, they should by default drop 3 pieces per run, more if timed.
I keep trying to get into m+, but its too hard; and it doesnt make sense. The "bosses" are lackeys to the raid bosses, there shouldnt be a version of the dungeon bosses thats harder than the raid.
Exactly this, our guild clears H to M1 on a weekly basis, but we have consistent difficulty timing level 8 Keys. The higher keys feel way harder than Heroic/Mythic raid and that's just not right.
10s are tuned to be as hard as the first 4 mythic bosses. M+ is the hardest content in the game, with 14s being harder than Mythic Queen Ansurek. Proof of this, at least 420 people have killed queen, barely 75 have all 14s timed, and there are way more people pushing keys than people fighting the mythic roster boss.
@@dSevvv This would be an excellent argument if only defensive didn't have cooldowns, or classes had equal qualities and quantities of defensive cooldowns. I wonder why most high keys consists of Resto Shaman + 3 DKS and Retdin, oh I wonder why.
I thought it was just me on the agro thing. Warriors and paladins are the usually culplits there especially mid pull when the whole pack turns out of nowhere to hump the warrior lol.
Even in raid, our two tanks are a Prot Pally and a Blood DK and the DK constantly pulls agro off the Pally due to DPS, even right after the Pally has done a taunt. Agro mechanics are scuffed right now.
As a healer main since BC, someone who has done mythic raiding and mythic +20s last season healing this season is honestly a nightmare. The issue I have expienced is that everyone spikes around and stabilizing is difficult and players quickly become unstable. I think that having to heal the tank more is a good thing, but everyone is consistently taking tons of damage with little breathing room. I think that healing nich needs to be looked at when evaluating the effectiveness of blizards goal. Shamans are the kings of healing spike damage and the popularity of the reflects the state of damage. Meanwhile, druids who excell at substained intake are struggling. If the goal had been achieved then imo druids should be a gold standard of measurement given how their style is intended to work. However as a druid main, resto has felt insanely bad because it doesnt deal well with the damage spikes and tuning issues since the launch. Honestly, I think that balance situation and healing situation (for all healers) are completely out of touch with each other.
Ultimately it is a MMO. "Multiplayer", so it should be accesible for many ppl. Now it seems more like a "elites" only game (M+ wise). In a multiplayer game the general content and that includes M+ should be accesible for all. Gearing is not scalling with difficulty this season. Its harder to get gear in lower keys, to scale up for harder M+. Ultimately the game gets harder and ppl get more toxic when you fail as a player in a harder key.
Healer main here (hpal), and my experience has been pretty bad The damage going out on the party is insane (and most of it is group wide). Tank got their self sustain nerfed so I have to top them off, and there's a lot of dispells that I have to keep track of in between gaps in my healing rotation (to build holy power); I'm essentially an ER doctor doing triage to keep half dead people alive Blizzard said that their intention was to make damage less spiky and more gradual... but I'm seeing the exact opposite? What the fuck were they thinking?
Well as a healer it always piss me off when people that can dispel dont because they are dps.... same with interrupt. its amazing how the most simple role cant do the basic things to help the group
It’s disturbing how bad getting into m+ dungeons has become. Looked into pre made groups over the weekend and no one had a single dungeon in progress. It’s probably still blank as of today.
Its way to hard, so hard that it makes you sick. If you want one piece of mythic level gear you have to do m+ 10 which can take hours to get into and minutes to brick.
@@zarkokljakovic49 yeah, because you can farm the mythics all day for gear instead of once a week. Look up the mythic gear ilvl chart. You can do +8s to get the same gear a +10 will give you.
I think that maybe delves will be ilvl capped at some point and learning how to do Mythics is important for gearing. It also shows that people are not willing to learn game mechanics to progress.
Willing or are being gate kept and spending 1-2 hours trying to get into a key if you use your own still has a long period of trying to form a decent group with still having a solid chance to break and once that's done you get 53 gold
@@ZHGcrazy bro, I farmed city of echoes +9, 33 times to get the Harvesters staff which I immediately replaced with the vault item. The amount of dps that didn’t know how to interrupt or stand out of web spirals, was incredible. People not dodging slime waves on the final boss becuase they wanted to free cast is absurd. Meele not running out to get the little guys for the pools to stand in. Like cmon, that’s not gatekeeping. It’s people not taking the time to learn what they have to do. Interrupting casts should be second nature in any dungeon/raid. I stayed in a 63 death +9 to teach the group the final boss. Like cmon now.
Most people complaining about M+ are under 2k io, do less than tank damage, don't cc, and don't kick. It's the hardest content in the game and it scales infinitely. It's a LOT of problem solving. It's gonna be difficult. 6s are about heroic difficulty level, 10s are first 4 mythic raid difficulty level, 14s are harder than Queen Ansurek(420+ have killed Queen, barely 75 have all 14s timed, way more people are pushing keys than there are fighting the roster boss, the real mythic raid boss). Bricking keys is part of the process. High keys have about 10% success rate. A high key FOR YOU may be a +7. You will have no more success there than rank 1 players in a +16. Brick keys, learn from them, stop being a loot goblin. Loot is not what M+ is about. It's about skills and knowledge.
Playerbase likes to gatekeep as well. Not inviting someone to a +5 because they haven't finished +1 2 3 4 for every other dungeon is illogical and moronic. I'll stay a classic andy.
How many times has it happened to you?: "Oh wow! I'm already out of stuns. Someone overlapped his stun with my interrupt... Now those mobs are casting 3 bolts at me and I'm out of defensives... Oh well. Guess I'll die ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "
Same here brother 19 years gone down the drain, I hope it was worth it for em. Glad we got to experience DF though,man those raids and dungeons were a blast, this game isn't for most people anymore let the few thousand fight over their aotc titles and mounts for the rest of days I won't be apart of it anymore
The problem with WoW is 100% WoW players abusing systems. No matter what happens, people will find a way to abuse it and make it worse for people who dont.
… If people can’t mechanically avoid optional damage, Thank you for not trying to play the content I run these for fun and when you can’t perform the content, You take away the reward a player who can perform, Should receive Deep down they know who they are, Its entitled as fuck and if you defend them, You’re part of the problem Have some respect for other peoples time. Just because Blizzard doesn’t allow me to treat you how you deserve to be treated, I make the disdain known wherever i can I don’t care if the opinion is unpopular, Its an objective fact that the problem, Are the players who shouldn’t be there Que the people who can’t perform, Saying how irrelevant the content is ( That for some reason they are still trying to drag others down in )
Scaling is off. M+ won’t get better until it is addressed. Been spamming +3 before the Aspect adjustment since M+ released and now spamming +8 GB all week but just feels stupid for all the effort with minimal room for mistakes and bad luck for trinket drop. Timing keys isn’t the issue, it just feels more like work than fun now.
The issue isn't if it's hard or not. I love hard games. I'm a Fromsoftware fanatic. The issue is everything's fking boring and annoying. Pull 5 mobs, 4 of them are casters, interrupt one, it instantly casts something else, get hit by unavoidable damage with no counterplay other than using your defensives or being healed. It SUUUUCKS ASSSSS. I want 15-20 mob pulls and AOE the everliving crap out of them while I'm dodging avoidable mechanics that make me move or do sh*t instead of focusing on interrupts and defensives. How hard is it to understand Blizzard?
im 626 never stepped foot in mythic + lol for my level im happy clearing heroic, and delves. I can get 30 Gildes crest per week just doing heroic and some random ones doing delves. I tried working my way up and made it from m0 to M9+ and let me tell you it still blows. 30 mins of frustration and over tuned dungeons for what lol
im 619ilvl fury/arms warrior 2k+ rating with Aotc and cant even get in 8+ mythics, ive wasted hours queing 1 group after another only to never get accepted
This type of broken gameplay creates toxic environment and toxic communities. According to tracker statistics, 90% of all successfully timed high keys consists of Resto Shaman, Blood DK, Frost DK, Unholy DK, and a Retribution Paladin, other compositions simply cannot compete and doesn't even exist beyond certain key levels. What happened to the "bring the player not the class" design philosophy. We have a whopping 9 underplayed class right now in the meta, that has never happened before in the history of WoW.
I don’t understand why everyone is losing their minds on the fact that they actually are having to work for myth Track gear now. The idea is that the higher end dungeons are supposed to be as difficult as raid since they are returning the same level reward. Very few people are yolo pugging mythic palace right now. Most groups are actual groups in discord actually coordinating kills. Everything blizzard is doing with the key squish/increase in difficulty is to reduce dead keys like what we saw in DF and it actually works, as well as slowing down the season so you aren’t hitting full gear by week 3. A reality is that not everyone is going to get the top level gear and that’s okay. I’m speaking from someone who has only timed an 8 as my highest key and am currently healing as rdruid this season. Hero track gear is perfectly acceptable for the content I am doing and allows you to do most everything you would want this season. A fully kitted out hero track player has the option to do mythic raid or higher end keys if they so choose.
Sooo coming back from being gone from the game for 14 years. They did a good job in the first month because it seems as though they respected the players time in the game ie: delves, LFR, heroic, M0, pvp gearing (not the solo shuffles). M+ destroyed that… IMO if you want people like my self to stick around don’t tie this time fucks into progression. Sure give them mounts and prestige but what they did is create an elitist population of gamers. They catered to the no life MFs. Your gear is only 600 no invite for you, oh you don’t have M+ rating no invite for you, oh you don’t have 2k arena rating no invite for you, oh you don’t have a heroic raid achievement no invite for you. Soo this will kill the casual gamer as usual. So circle jerk yourselves.
DPS don’t know how to kick and mitigate damage where as tanks and healers are being forced to understand the whole dungeons mechanics. That’s the make or break. Healing 8s is either make and break. The dps either knows or they don’t. And it shows instantly. The dmg scaling is a tad high across the board, but it’s mechanic damage which punishes dps for sucking and then makes the healer and tank have to carry way too much. Don’t be a shitty useless dps. Learn your mobs. Learn your boss fights.
Why are they so hell bent on keeping key levels so low? What is so bad about having them start easy, scale slower and just go higher at the high end? It's endless scaling content. There's absolutely no reason for it to be like this.
They squished the key levels because there were several dead levels. It's way better that way, now only 2-3, 5-6, and 9 are dead levels. When it was up to 20 instead, 2-15, and 17-19, were dead levels. New players just couldn't climb at all.
@@VDHmain No, they did the squish because Mythic 0 was rendered obsolete after everyone got geared past that level. The squish didn't change that at all though. The existence of content that gives rewards higher than mythic 0 will make that always the case. It always has been the case.
@@rokman5000 M0 is just as obsolete right now, what are you talking about? Are you even doing M+? All I said about dead key levels is 100% true; you can try it yourself, or ask people that actually do keys.
@@VDHmain I'm doing 10's and 11's currently. I wouldn't even be in the lower range that I'm talking about. I'm concerned for the health of the game for the players that aren't like me. The ones that are struggling. And yeah, M0 is obsolete. That always happens. Makes you question why they made this change in the first place. Because their reasoning was because M0 dungeons were obsolete after a short time. Still the same issue, just made worse for a large portion of the playerbase because everything is harder now.
@@MrMex44 nah not really, you have a small group of players preventing the wider player base from breaking into the content. It's those better players wanting to keep their " I'm special" mentality, if others were allowed in to get good there would be no difference, especially since gear is the only thing that makes you good 😅
@@MrMex44 There aren't enough ”better" players to support the content and the number clearly shows. The amount of mythic+ games being formed has decreased by 50% and successful Mythic+ runs has dwindled by 70% since the first week and these are historic record low. When most players are "bad," the game is just bad.
@@silverhand8744 i mean who is preventing you from running keys? Why would someone be expected to take someone who isn't as good as them? You're talking about people's free time and you are not entitled to it just because you are alive and playing the same game.
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:5 [KJV]) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13)
I like that M+ is the hardest content right now. It is easy to get into and waste the least amount of time when you fail. Meaning you get more people that learn mechanics and that makes raids easier. You could argue that they arent the same mechanics, but dodging puddles is universal, and if you dont dodge stuff in M+, you die.
Wasting 30-50 minutes to get 50g in the end. without a currency to buy the items I want and need in the end, without a bad luck system. It‘s just not worth it!
And that's if your group times it. Heck you can sometimes spend waiting up to an hour waiting to get the group filled. Only to brick a key halfway through. So u can waste up to a hour or more on a key you might not finish. The whole system needs a redesign, I feel like I'm paying Blizz to work a job lol.
The thing about M+ is that it's not about the reward at the end, it's about the score at the end of the season. If you're a loot goblin doing it for shiny gear, you won't like it.
@@VDHmain If that were true why does it drop gear at all, because Blizz knows 100% of the player base does in fact do it for gear. The only difference is some only do it for gear, while others do it to get gear to push higher.
@@jethrodark2372 Ill correct it in very few words. "Nobody doing HIGH keys does it for gear" Wasn't so hard.
@@VDHmain Here's the thing you didn't say high keys in your post, you said people don't do M+ for gear. Anything from a 2+ to 10+ people do for gear, anything over that they do for score. 85% to 90% of people that do M+ do it for gear or go past 10s for portals and titles. Most people don't give AF after that.
my biggest issue with the whole system, and I'm surprised at how little I see people talk about this, are the weekly crest caps. It feels so bad when I just need 45-60 more crests and my progress is completely halted for an entire WEEK when the cap increases slightly.
Because for most people the cap is not an issue because wow is not their lives. I know i do 8-9 keys a week and thats it
30-40 runs for a trinket and not getting one feels pretty bad
I got my season mount reward as a Resto Shaman and I'm done with the rest of the season. Blizzard has to PAY me higher than minimum wage for me to run another Mythic+. I can't imagine what the gameplay experience must feel like for other healers. This is why the current group finder takes more than an hour to form for high keys, no sane healer wants to play your damn game Blizzard, wake up.
Man as a healer i will always leave if people are constantly not hitting mechanics and that I’m not burning myself out on wow and quitting because people don’t want to accept it’s not my responsibility alone to keep everyone alive
DPS can't just stand around doing their braindead rotation, I now expect them to use their defensives and kicks
I have cancer and M+ is worse.
It's like I already have a full time job I want to decompress on a game after work not clock back in and work overtime ain't nobody got time for dat
I run as Dev / Pres evoker and the damage intake is not "smooth". There are too many unavoidable damage abilities from mobs that hits for 70% or more of a dps/healers health pool and if the same target gets double dipped they die, Corruptor in Grim for example.
And if I get the damage rng as a healer it will be a wipe. Dumb.
if you have a brain and fingers, that 70% telegraphed ability that the mob casts every dungeon can be mitigated with defensives. nothing really 1 shots you in pve if you respond
@@goondawg420-fp5nx
I can see you haven't actually done any M+. Double hatchet from Stich flesh mobs in Necro will kill their target, there is no getting away from it. Your defensives don't mitigate enough, you can't CC them. They pick the same person that person is dead unless it's the tank.
Same goes for corruption from the the corrupters in Grim, the two right before the final boss will channel the corruption at the same time and might pick the same person. You can't CC them can't do anything, you just die in 3 ticks.
How about chain pulls + slobber knocker in Siege, if that happens at the same time everyone is cleaved dead instantly. Again nothing can be done. Just unavoidable guaranteed deaths. It's stupid.
Not to mention that there are so many hard hitting unavoidable damage from trash mobs many classes will just run out of defensive CDs and are basically dead on the next round if they are unlucky. There is far too much damage rng for many packs to be "smooth" damage.
The same dps getting targeted over and over and over again by the unavoidable spell or curse essentially means they die.
@@Cheeky_Bandit Exactly this! There are mechanics that will simply one shot you if they targeted anyone other than the tank, unless you are a class with invincibility of course. Worst seasonal balance ever.
Last expansion i was pugging 18+ and 19+. As a healer im more stress then my actual job. why do a 10 spend hours to brick it in two minutes.
I'm farming crests at +8 and +9 currently and doing fine finally, especially since every so often I can now actually upgrade my gear and as a tank I start to feel tanky again - even timed the first +10 by now. But man, that jump from ~+6/+7 to +9 (before the fix to crests for +8s) was quite hard as a tank when a lot of stuff just knocks you out with no way to actually work on your gear beforehand. There certainly was quite the gap and it's kind of funny that now keys get easier again - feels weird from a progression standpoint.
But the damage has already been done, Most healers have quit Mythic+ at this point if not the game all together. The few Resto Shaman still playing are already running with static groups. Higher keys take long time to form, +10 takes hours to form especially. I wonder how Blizzard is going to fix things at this point.
Yep unsubbed last weekend... have fun woth all that, I'm having too much fun playing space marine to care anymore
M+ only dropping 2 pieces of gear is a SEVERELY outdated reward structure. Every bountiful delve gives me a piece of good ilv gear... even if it's not guaranteed to be an upgrade, it's SOMETHING, and it's coming from much less punishing content. M+ is harder, takes a MUCH bigger time investment to even get into one (as DPS), is more easily failed, depends on the mental fortitude of strangers, and doesn't guarantee anything at all except enough crests for a partial upgrade. NOT EVEN A WHOLE UPGRADE. My main has been running delves, dungeons, and LFR daily since the xpac released, and he's still got a 1h weapon from the first week of heroics.
Gear drops are just abysmal. It's time to reassess M+ rewards. At the very least, they should by default drop 3 pieces per run, more if timed.
I keep trying to get into m+, but its too hard; and it doesnt make sense. The "bosses" are lackeys to the raid bosses, there shouldnt be a version of the dungeon bosses thats harder than the raid.
Exactly this, our guild clears H to M1 on a weekly basis, but we have consistent difficulty timing level 8 Keys. The higher keys feel way harder than Heroic/Mythic raid and that's just not right.
10s are tuned to be as hard as the first 4 mythic bosses. M+ is the hardest content in the game, with 14s being harder than Mythic Queen Ansurek. Proof of this, at least 420 people have killed queen, barely 75 have all 14s timed, and there are way more people pushing keys than people fighting the mythic roster boss.
Can we get mythic q
Mechanics in higher keys are dumb. The AoE uninterruptable is guaranteed death to many classes.
It's called using a defensive.
@@dSevvv This would be an excellent argument if only defensive didn't have cooldowns, or classes had equal qualities and quantities of defensive cooldowns. I wonder why most high keys consists of Resto Shaman + 3 DKS and Retdin, oh I wonder why.
@@dSevvv yeah that went right over your head
@yiyueji That is quite literally not the stack being done in high keys 🤣 Maybe do some research before talking shit my man.
@@dSevvv ah you are one of those people
I thought it was just me on the agro thing. Warriors and paladins are the usually culplits there especially mid pull when the whole pack turns out of nowhere to hump the warrior lol.
Even in raid, our two tanks are a Prot Pally and a Blood DK and the DK constantly pulls agro off the Pally due to DPS, even right after the Pally has done a taunt. Agro mechanics are scuffed right now.
@@JakShadwin Yeah i was pulling off of our bear with deathbringer all the time and switched to sanlayn but now he pulls off me all the time lol.
As a healer main since BC, someone who has done mythic raiding and mythic +20s last season healing this season is honestly a nightmare. The issue I have expienced is that everyone spikes around and stabilizing is difficult and players quickly become unstable. I think that having to heal the tank more is a good thing, but everyone is consistently taking tons of damage with little breathing room.
I think that healing nich needs to be looked at when evaluating the effectiveness of blizards goal. Shamans are the kings of healing spike damage and the popularity of the reflects the state of damage. Meanwhile, druids who excell at substained intake are struggling. If the goal had been achieved then imo druids should be a gold standard of measurement given how their style is intended to work. However as a druid main, resto has felt insanely bad because it doesnt deal well with the damage spikes and tuning issues since the launch.
Honestly, I think that balance situation and healing situation (for all healers) are completely out of touch with each other.
I 100% agree with you
I love healing, but this season is legitimately stressful and not fun.
Ultimately it is a MMO. "Multiplayer", so it should be accesible for many ppl. Now it seems more like a "elites" only game (M+ wise). In a multiplayer game the general content and that includes M+ should be accesible for all. Gearing is not scalling with difficulty this season. Its harder to get gear in lower keys, to scale up for harder M+. Ultimately the game gets harder and ppl get more toxic when you fail as a player in a harder key.
Many of the game mechanics are extremely bad telegraphed. If you need external addons to tell you what happens than you dropped the ball as designers.
Healer main here (hpal), and my experience has been pretty bad
The damage going out on the party is insane (and most of it is group wide). Tank got their self sustain nerfed so I have to top them off, and there's a lot of dispells that I have to keep track of in between gaps in my healing rotation (to build holy power); I'm essentially an ER doctor doing triage to keep half dead people alive
Blizzard said that their intention was to make damage less spiky and more gradual... but I'm seeing the exact opposite? What the fuck were they thinking?
Well as a healer it always piss me off when people that can dispel dont because they are dps.... same with interrupt. its amazing how the most simple role cant do the basic things to help the group
It’s disturbing how bad getting into m+ dungeons has become. Looked into pre made groups over the weekend and no one had a single dungeon in progress. It’s probably still blank as of today.
Because if you loose someone during a key, you just start over, you don't waste more time on the key trying to PUG.
They need to go back to the old difficulties, for those of us who don't need or particularly want to play at the higher level of gameplay. 😢
Its way to hard, so hard that it makes you sick. If you want one piece of mythic level gear you have to do m+ 10 which can take hours to get into and minutes to brick.
@@zarkokljakovic49 yeah, because you can farm the mythics all day for gear instead of once a week. Look up the mythic gear ilvl chart. You can do +8s to get the same gear a +10 will give you.
I think that maybe delves will be ilvl capped at some point and learning how to do Mythics is important for gearing. It also shows that people are not willing to learn game mechanics to progress.
Willing or are being gate kept and spending 1-2 hours trying to get into a key if you use your own still has a long period of trying to form a decent group with still having a solid chance to break and once that's done you get 53 gold
@@ZHGcrazy bro, I farmed city of echoes +9, 33 times to get the Harvesters staff which I immediately replaced with the vault item. The amount of dps that didn’t know how to interrupt or stand out of web spirals, was incredible. People not dodging slime waves on the final boss becuase they wanted to free cast is absurd. Meele not running out to get the little guys for the pools to stand in. Like cmon, that’s not gatekeeping. It’s people not taking the time to learn what they have to do. Interrupting casts should be second nature in any dungeon/raid. I stayed in a 63 death +9 to teach the group the final boss. Like cmon now.
It's not that people are unwilling to learn. It's that they aren't allowed to
Getting invited in to groups is very hard
Lmao as a tank prot warrior I love it. There are easier tanks to play but bear and blood but I can’t stop leaping around.
Most people complaining about M+ are under 2k io, do less than tank damage, don't cc, and don't kick. It's the hardest content in the game and it scales infinitely. It's a LOT of problem solving. It's gonna be difficult. 6s are about heroic difficulty level, 10s are first 4 mythic raid difficulty level, 14s are harder than Queen Ansurek(420+ have killed Queen, barely 75 have all 14s timed, way more people are pushing keys than there are fighting the roster boss, the real mythic raid boss). Bricking keys is part of the process. High keys have about 10% success rate. A high key FOR YOU may be a +7. You will have no more success there than rank 1 players in a +16. Brick keys, learn from them, stop being a loot goblin. Loot is not what M+ is about. It's about skills and knowledge.
Playerbase likes to gatekeep as well. Not inviting someone to a +5 because they haven't finished +1 2 3 4 for every other dungeon is illogical and moronic. I'll stay a classic andy.
How many times has it happened to you?:
"Oh wow! I'm already out of stuns. Someone overlapped his stun with my interrupt... Now those mobs are casting 3 bolts at me and I'm out of defensives... Oh well. Guess I'll die ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "
You're so right about the aggro.. it's like the threat modifier for tanks got tinkered with
was subbed all of DF, aotc and ksm every season. pugging nearly 100% of keys each season. this season is so shit ive canceled my acc.
Same here brother 19 years gone down the drain, I hope it was worth it for em. Glad we got to experience DF though,man those raids and dungeons were a blast, this game isn't for most people anymore let the few thousand fight over their aotc titles and mounts for the rest of days I won't be apart of it anymore
How do you expect players to find solutions, we pay a monthly sub + expansion, and we have to do their job aswell?
The other problem is the gear sucks and the path to upgrade is brutal, as a tank I brick 9/10 keys due to windowlickers
The timer feels really painful, people leave after one wipe
EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!!!
The problem with WoW is 100% WoW players abusing systems. No matter what happens, people will find a way to abuse it and make it worse for people who dont.
Yup more mechanics = more problems, sometimes players can't even use their interrupt ability
I don’t get why ppl are complaining I think it’s fine 😅
… If people can’t mechanically avoid optional damage, Thank you for not trying to play the content
I run these for fun and when you can’t perform the content, You take away the reward a player who can perform, Should receive
Deep down they know who they are, Its entitled as fuck and if you defend them, You’re part of the problem
Have some respect for other peoples time. Just because Blizzard doesn’t allow me to treat you how you deserve to be treated, I make the disdain known wherever i can
I don’t care if the opinion is unpopular, Its an objective fact that the problem, Are the players who shouldn’t be there
Que the people who can’t perform, Saying how irrelevant the content is ( That for some reason they are still trying to drag others down in )
Actually all mmo's have solo content now. Most are solo games honestly. BDO, GW2, ESO and so many others...
I would be fine with difficulty if the rewards were more consistent and better
Scaling is off. M+ won’t get better until it is addressed. Been spamming +3 before the Aspect adjustment since M+ released and now spamming +8 GB all week but just feels stupid for all the effort with minimal room for mistakes and bad luck for trinket drop. Timing keys isn’t the issue, it just feels more like work than fun now.
All mythic developers should be fired
I have spent two weeks trying m+ and I hate them. Hate. If I am forced to play m+ to get my gear upgraded, I might just quit.
The issue isn't if it's hard or not. I love hard games. I'm a Fromsoftware fanatic. The issue is everything's fking boring and annoying. Pull 5 mobs, 4 of them are casters, interrupt one, it instantly casts something else, get hit by unavoidable damage with no counterplay other than using your defensives or being healed. It SUUUUCKS ASSSSS. I want 15-20 mob pulls and AOE the everliving crap out of them while I'm dodging avoidable mechanics that make me move or do sh*t instead of focusing on interrupts and defensives. How hard is it to understand Blizzard?
Stonevault is the only one that I find unreasonably annoying.
im 626 never stepped foot in mythic + lol
for my level im happy clearing heroic, and delves. I can get 30 Gildes crest per week just doing heroic and some random ones doing delves. I tried working my way up and made it from m0 to M9+ and let me tell you it still blows. 30 mins of frustration and over tuned dungeons for what lol
im 619ilvl fury/arms warrior 2k+ rating with Aotc and cant even get in 8+ mythics, ive wasted hours queing 1 group after another only to never get accepted
This type of broken gameplay creates toxic environment and toxic communities. According to tracker statistics, 90% of all successfully timed high keys consists of Resto Shaman, Blood DK, Frost DK, Unholy DK, and a Retribution Paladin, other compositions simply cannot compete and doesn't even exist beyond certain key levels. What happened to the "bring the player not the class" design philosophy. We have a whopping 9 underplayed class right now in the meta, that has never happened before in the history of WoW.
Good players are getting frustrated and pissed, I’m going back to firelands until they fix this crap
Go back to the way last season was. It was fun for all levels of game play.
I don’t understand why everyone is losing their minds on the fact that they actually are having to work for myth Track gear now. The idea is that the higher end dungeons are supposed to be as difficult as raid since they are returning the same level reward. Very few people are yolo pugging mythic palace right now. Most groups are actual groups in discord actually coordinating kills.
Everything blizzard is doing with the key squish/increase in difficulty is to reduce dead keys like what we saw in DF and it actually works, as well as slowing down the season so you aren’t hitting full gear by week 3. A reality is that not everyone is going to get the top level gear and that’s okay.
I’m speaking from someone who has only timed an 8 as my highest key and am currently healing as rdruid this season. Hero track gear is perfectly acceptable for the content I am doing and allows you to do most everything you would want this season. A fully kitted out hero track player has the option to do mythic raid or higher end keys if they so choose.
People don't realize 10s are as hard as the first 4 mythic bosses.
It’s like they made dungeons just to be as annoying as possible
Delves are more fun. Unless you want BIS gear why would you do a higher level key. Delves are chill
Last week had to pop cds defensive to pick up balls so boss dosent get buffed by standing in sh....t becouse tank cant move boss becouse of mechanics
Sooo coming back from being gone from the game for 14 years. They did a good job in the first month because it seems as though they respected the players time in the game ie: delves, LFR, heroic, M0, pvp gearing (not the solo shuffles). M+ destroyed that… IMO if you want people like my self to stick around don’t tie this time fucks into progression. Sure give them mounts and prestige but what they did is create an elitist population of gamers. They catered to the no life MFs. Your gear is only 600 no invite for you, oh you don’t have M+ rating no invite for you, oh you don’t have 2k arena rating no invite for you, oh you don’t have a heroic raid achievement no invite for you. Soo this will kill the casual gamer as usual. So circle jerk yourselves.
DPS don’t know how to kick and mitigate damage where as tanks and healers are being forced to understand the whole dungeons mechanics. That’s the make or break. Healing 8s is either make and break. The dps either knows or they don’t. And it shows instantly.
The dmg scaling is a tad high across the board, but it’s mechanic damage which punishes dps for sucking and then makes the healer and tank have to carry way too much. Don’t be a shitty useless dps. Learn your mobs. Learn your boss fights.
Like always it's dps fault.. bro go pound sand
@@Nameonly67 sry not sorry. At that level it’s not a healing or route issue.
Why are they so hell bent on keeping key levels so low? What is so bad about having them start easy, scale slower and just go higher at the high end? It's endless scaling content. There's absolutely no reason for it to be like this.
They squished the key levels because there were several dead levels. It's way better that way, now only 2-3, 5-6, and 9 are dead levels. When it was up to 20 instead, 2-15, and 17-19, were dead levels. New players just couldn't climb at all.
@@VDHmain No, they did the squish because Mythic 0 was rendered obsolete after everyone got geared past that level. The squish didn't change that at all though. The existence of content that gives rewards higher than mythic 0 will make that always the case. It always has been the case.
@@rokman5000 M0 is just as obsolete right now, what are you talking about? Are you even doing M+? All I said about dead key levels is 100% true; you can try it yourself, or ask people that actually do keys.
@@VDHmain I'm doing 10's and 11's currently. I wouldn't even be in the lower range that I'm talking about. I'm concerned for the health of the game for the players that aren't like me. The ones that are struggling. And yeah, M0 is obsolete. That always happens. Makes you question why they made this change in the first place. Because their reasoning was because M0 dungeons were obsolete after a short time. Still the same issue, just made worse for a large portion of the playerbase because everything is harder now.
All healers should have the same dispell, mass dispell, and cc.
Lol i was just in game telling this elite wannabee that his attitude and outlook was killing the content 😅
The victim mentality is just as toxic. People complaining because they can’t do the content the better players can is just as bad.
@@MrMex44 nah not really, you have a small group of players preventing the wider player base from breaking into the content. It's those better players wanting to keep their " I'm special" mentality, if others were allowed in to get good there would be no difference, especially since gear is the only thing that makes you good 😅
@@silverhand8744agreed.
@@MrMex44 There aren't enough ”better" players to support the content and the number clearly shows. The amount of mythic+ games being formed has decreased by 50% and successful Mythic+ runs has dwindled by 70% since the first week and these are historic record low. When most players are "bad," the game is just bad.
@@silverhand8744 i mean who is preventing you from running keys? Why would someone be expected to take someone who isn't as good as them? You're talking about people's free time and you are not entitled to it just because you are alive and playing the same game.
hmmm run m+ or try for hour to get into one as a ret DPS? Nah just run Delve get me that 616 and move on.
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:5 [KJV])
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13)
affxies are not hard. just hard scaling
Or when dps pull for you
Bro has 450 rio talking about how hard shit is. Gtfo 🤡💀
Just dont do mythic anymore. Easy.
old dungeons that we have done as well over and over... no one cares tbh
Devs is just a stupid AI machine...5hey have to etart play the game!
Or log off
Pound sand
I like that M+ is the hardest content right now. It is easy to get into and waste the least amount of time when you fail. Meaning you get more people that learn mechanics and that makes raids easier. You could argue that they arent the same mechanics, but dodging puddles is universal, and if you dont dodge stuff in M+, you die.
When everything one shots you in a +2 it feels bad.
Mythic plus is totally fine, timed all keys on +12 with pugs and i barely even play, learn your classes and stop nagging
Bro make ur own content ffs 🥱