💰BDO's P2W Situation is Worse Than I Thought💰
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Pansy reviews this weeks patch notes. The lack of costume sales initially seemed like a coincidence but now is very sus. This ain't looking good boys.
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BDO's P2W Situation is Worse Than I Thought
Black Desert Online 2023
The EU server has become extremely p2w.
I've been playing BDO since 2016, 7 years, as a loyal, dedicated, and goal oriented PvX-er. I've reached 735 gear score without extravagant P2W during this time (zero costume to cron/silver purchases, bought a few Artisan Memory bundles when they're on sale, buy all my VP's and Kama Blessings). I have multiple builds. I fell in love with BDO for its unique experience...a near unending grind, a beautifully crafted world, a self-goal oriented "sandbox-y" feel in progression and gameplay, and you cannot forget the slick action combat and player-driven Open World PvP experience that could only be found in BDO when it came to relevant MMORPG's. And, I absolutely love my class who was my first in character creation, who I've mained for 7 years and have never rerolled off of (Sorc). I've always defended BDO. I've been there during all the "BDO is dead" shenanigans, like when other (now actually dead) MMO's came out (oh the irony). I find myself at a point, however, where I just get sad when thinking about BDO, let alone playing it. I'm not sure exactly what it is. Maybe it's because I've achieved most of my gear goals with the only thing left being PEN Debo accessories. Maybe it's because of how dead the open world feels now on normal channels. Maybe it's the shift in culture or mindset among the general game-population. Maybe it's because I've played so long and am just tired of the game (I don't think it's this, I love the concept of BDO [self-reliant gameplay, grinder-game]). I really don't know. All I know is...I can sort of feel BDO dying. It's probably all in my mind. Or maybe it's not, as PA experienced a massive dip in revenue in Q1 of 2023. I guess we just need to see where PA will go with BDO. For me, I'm just waiting for another good sandbox-y MMO to sweep me off my feet like BDO once did, back in 2016 to around 2020.
7 years is a long ass time to play an MMO. Would be nice to get a direct sandbox MMO competitor to BDO with a newer physics engine.
@@DrSwazz It's a long time, but is the only MMO that captured my attention. Themepark MMO's aren't really my thing. I'm just venting (thanks Pansy for allowing a platform for me to do so, love you bro). I'm not putting all my eggs into the basket, but I'm looking forward to Ashes. Combat won't be BDO, but it seems to be bringing a lot of the PvX-open-world-sandbox elements BDO was once known for back in the day, that BDO scrapped to be the PvE-MMO that it is now. It might be that direct competitor you're looking for, but we'll just have to see for ourselves in time.
I would conject that it’s the Marni/open world Dec changes. Without a reason to clash your accumulated power and skill against another person in an open world to secure limited resources (grind spot) the drive to get more gear dries up. And without that drive and “reason” to progress, most people have no reason to play BDO and will soft quit.
You basically sound like me right now as a veteran player 730gs debos left really and then i just cba to grind anymore the hamster wheel going and doing circles i just cant anymore the gears to expensive, for little bit ap for what? Only reason i come on atm is to do a weekly attempt at T10 peggy and to afk to get the materials for it. Group content sucks ass and i want play with friends and help friends out and bdo is a solo "mmo" for most part with no meaningful group stuff. Im tapped out of it. Loved game but years later its same stuff
I just got in the BDO experience, I LOVE the game from the character creation, (skipped through the stories) the game designs, the self-reliant grind and etc. plus the guild that made me stay cause people are veeery helpful. Its good to see how a slight p2w players like you stayed in game without putting in so much money because then I could actually stay in game and still enjoy it, I really love this game, its like a dream come true game for me.
P2W in 2023 bdo come on man I thought you guys were helping newbies catch up not suck us dry in the process
You can relate to him if youve been playin this game for years :)
This is the comment I was looking for.
This title is deterring new people I'm sure. It's actively hurting the playerbase making videos like this. The games only gotten better with p2w so if people wanna learn about p2w let them watch all the other videos
@boomzx_ been playing since release, on and off. And this comment makes sense.
I aint hitting no BS or no bundle cron RNG. but I'm def hitting the person who came out with this freakin idea.
Your vids are amazing man coming from a new bdo player it has been a lot smoother watching your vids keep up the amazing work❤
Thanks dude!
After watching this video I dropped all my gear (a bunch of stuff, some big names being pen disto pen tungrad pen blackstar mainhand and awake)… thanks for waking me up. Paying CONSTANTLY and at INSANE amounts should NEVER be a requirement. That’s the definition of p2w, and is a perfect display of greed
Crons and Outfits Prices should have just stayed :(
:( amen Boomz
@@imPansy I dont know man, I am torn. Progressing is so fast now. You can start day 1, and be grinding Orcs in a week. That is still crazy to me. New players catch up fast. And most ALL PvP is capped. Which is relevant since open world is dead since Marni Realm changes.
New players make 1 bil an hour at Kratuga, while end game (like myself at 730) makes 1.5-2.
I guess what I am saying is they added so much money to the market, that the inflation was going to happen. PEN BS use to be 40 bil, now its 150 bil, but no one cries about that. PEN Accs use to be 20bil, now they are 70-200bil, no one cares about that. Which is relevane since most people buy atleast one PEN BS.
I also dont mind the Cron Stone rise, especially since they basically gave people 10k free Cron Stones over the past 2 months.
@@lincolnjohnson4428 still changin the vendor crons was a greedy move now u grind 5 years for 1 AP instead of few months nah ty for this bullshit. It was an fun game enjoyed it aloooot and now its an waiting room for a new good mmorpg that will be fucked up after few years or months u never know but can be enjoyed some time. Now enjoy your nerf after nerf bdo experience bcs this is what will happen => more expensive mobile like p2w shit while spots gettin nerf after nerf.
what do you even "p2w" for? The game is about running in circles, if you wanna do sth fancy you run in circles the other way round, if you are bored you fish (afk), buying crones or costumes is just for the lazy or impatient players, for the most part you play alone for yourself. its not science but your free time you should enjoy but you are just stressing yourself out and most likely will burn out of playing bdo at some time or the other. Me playing for 17k hours you can get decent stats without any usage of crons or even without enhancing at all, it just takes time.
Some people are happy being cannon fodder, others want to be the cannon
a lot p2w for pvp
Honestly it's so fcked up that they don't give good discounts anymore, since they increased the value.
Neither artisans or outfits are more than 20% discounted anymore, even though they usually always had 30+% discounts before.
I still get outfits on market, even on EU, but with better discounts, people would definitely buy more costumes.
But right now it just feels like scam honestly.
People may or may not have noticed that the weekly costume sale they usually have is now 3000 pearls instead of 2700 pearls, mighty suspect.
still cant put a PO on those VP, Old moon and kama buff!!!
Yeah... the cron situation is absolutely fucked. All they had to do was bump costume prices and increase the amount of crons we get from them to incentivize the whales to sell a few more on the market each week, but instead with the 3m vendor price it's now become essentially mandatory to go the market for crons. At the very least it seems that costumes ARE filling in NA, still a slow trickle but more consistent than before.
Tbh I lost all of my motivation to grind. I don't wanna spend 600b for a single item
@@Esotericspirits I still have some motivation since I'm below 700 GS and can still buying a ton of upgrades, I'm min PO'ing a blackstar in hopes someone sells me one but tbh it looks like I'll need to wait until Cal Ball to get one. At least PEN Basi and PEN Ogre are sitting on the market atm, need a lot of money but at least it isn't 35bil per tap on crons unlike Debos.
They should just make crons 1.5 mil from the vendor, remove melting costumes for crons, cut the irl dollar price of costumes in half, and have costumes sell for 1 bil each.
yeah the fairy p2w is my biggest problem with them right now but all their other stuff has really been mediocre at best. It almost feels like they do 1 step forward 2 steps back. I came back after all the recent improvements I had saw people talking about. I was really having fun until I got to the fairy, and getting pen gear/accessories and seeing that half of the advertising t1 guilds require 600+ gs for some reason, and with most people saying uncapped pvp doesn't really start until 670+ it's a bit discouraging overall.
Still one of the very few (not including trash games that are bad by design) games that SELLS you A CHANCE to get what you want. Like wow my bro.
I honestly don't get people that buy crons. Your just paying to complete the game faster. If you dont want to play dont play but its a massive waste of money to try to speed run the game. If you want to spend money buy storage space or worker logging something that will impact your play because you want to keep playing.
Also I assume cost increase to crons is some what tied to market value of costume going up but that is just a guess.
If I had a p2w complaint it would be the life book and book of moon making life skilling p2w. It used to be fun to compete for ranking life skill on server but now its just p2w so meh.
I feel the same. All enhancement Material like Cron, Artisan, Valk Cry feels like a gigantic rip off, I would never buy any of that, rather play with lower end gear a little longer, but then again I'm no pvp Player and even if, I would play another game without the need to pay so much to compete.
I have such a love hate relationship with bdo. I loveeee the game its fun as hell animation and world wise its beautiful! But the pearl shop just pisses me off way to fucking expensive like the inventory and weight shit makes mr scream
The game has been going on for how many years now? I'm sure they know what they're doing, at least financially. The hardcore are too heavily invested to quit. The casual will come and go. Of course the game will die out someday.
i think the main problem is that they connected end game progression with cron enhancement to the "income" created by whales. and on top of that we have people that just want a costume because it looks good.
maybe remove crons / valks from costumes and make them vendor only. then make costumes and all permanent shop items (like pets, flute, ...) the highest silver per dollar spend. and then make vp, kama and old moon (temporary items) a bit worse in terms of silver per dollar. so we have all permanent items sitting in the market at max and whales with to much dollars get a reduced rate in filling vp, kama and old moon preorders to all other players.
or what ever else, but we need to cut that cron whale connection. its toxic for the game. a vp/kama/oldmoon whale connection would be much better. in a way i think the wow token does that much better.
It's so ironic showing the chart for activity. All the people saying the game would die if PA didn't make changes to the GvG/PvP scene - where are all these people now? And while the node war changes are good, seeing us at similar statistics to Q1 is hilarious. Like it's insane what not having a purpose for going in endless circles will do. Who needs gear? Just meet NW gear caps and only login for rewards. Don't get me started on the cron situation; risky game design relying on whales to feed the player economy outfits to melt - and what do you think whales spent money for? BiS gear for PvP. Most of them aren't selling costumes anymore, the majority of them likely melt whatever they buy for themselves. For the rest of us vendor cron has entered the chat.
Facts
Hm more like pay for more chances but yes
This is exactly why private servers look more appealing.
Good job covering this, Thanks!!!
What servers are even popular atm?
Honestly i feel like the title of the video is weird, because when i saw it i feel like oh now p2w is coming to a real thing? Well no, is the opposite because less/bad discount on costume/stuffs means that whale will shop less so there will be less p2w (i will say p2convenience btw) . Anyway i don't mind if ppl buy tons of outfit for cron/weekly ez income. Everyone play the game the way they want/can, if someone can put kk of €/$ i honestly don't judge it. Whale=money for PA=keep developing the game cuz ppl keep spend on it.
I mean Cron 3mil at vendor really suks but...this surely will not force me and all the ppl i play with to become a whale tbh
Y'know, as a f2p player who only buys cosmetics to wear (20 characthers with atleast 3 outfits each) was content with the p2w until they took VP, kama, and old moons off the MP. As soon as i bought a VP off the pearl shop i suddenly didnt even feel like playing anymore and i quit😂
Maybe ill be back to see how the game is in a year idk
They took that shit off the market?? Wtf. Well, not like anyone was gonna get it anyway lmao
This is the number one reason I no longer play. Not that it's off the MP, but the lack of VP access. I don't like playing without one active and it's too expensive. Used to be they tossed 7 day and 15 day VP around quite a bit. Not really the case anymore. If it was half the price, I would still be playing.
Oh yeah, and they said it's 'temporarily removed because of some issues'....lol@@DrSwazz
@@darnassiannightsaber7835 Uh huh lmao
Sadly your title on this video alone is just going to scare people away. Its like yohr trying to deter people :/ Bdo has pay for convenience. If you look at the game 4 years ago and then look now tbey basically give you tons and tons of free stuff. Not hating on the content either, just my take. Cheers bro
All good man. On the other hand, comments like BDO has Pay for Convenience might trick players into playing when that's not the case. Nothing about requiring 70k cron stones on average for a V Blackstar on 250 stack is "convenience". That's 210b if you buy them from vendor. At 1.5b/hr that's 140 hrs if you hit the average. You might not succeed either. Sure you can buy it for 130b-150b but if people stop being able to enhance, market will eventually run dry again and they'll be like Oh let's raise the price again.
Yep. PA is getting a bit greedy at the moment.
think im done with this game, I think I might try a private server
I agree Pearl shop is whack. They used to have multiple buy-one get-one $60 and $10 pearl boxes a year. Now they have bunk ass buy $200 and get $34 worth or something. On top of that as you pointed out the discounts are terrible. I get that they rely on the whales for majority of the pearl income, but they surely aren't getting a dime out of me with the current layout. The login rewards are also absolute garbage. Went from getting a free t9 Horse to getting f*cking black stones. Not to mention I'm flat out bored with the game right now.
ngl you not gonna win this game unless you spend 500k
Fairies gotta me more f2p friendly. Sure u can reroll for the 1st 2 skills (miraculous cheer and feathery step) but eventually you will NEED continuous care, for elixirs when grinding, and some other buffs when afk life skilling
If you use elixirs you are super-tryharding. Draughts were good enough before continuus and still are. The same with life skilling.
It's a bonus, not a necessity.
@@yavvivvay I’m grinding dekhia thorn, oluns, and crypt, elixirs with a fairy is basically necessary endgame. Popping them individually with hot bar leads to death.
@@0.7p well if you tryhard then yes. I could grind those places, but i chill on orcs for 60% of the gains and 0 risk :D
I was so lucky to get my MC V and CC IV for free (Theias orbs from events used only once!) but holy shit that made me realize how bad it is to achieve without paying...
no Double Pearls sad.
But but game needs to make money fo survive -- Pansy 2023
I love your content, and you cover the #P2W on Black Desert Online (BDO) well. I'm sorry, this next part is not directed at you specifically but at the real state of the game from a new player’s perspective without gear. I submitted the below to a GM first, who cleared it of any false claims.
Attention all gamers! You must be aware of the false claims about Black Desert Online (BDO) as a viable MMO. Let me be clear: it is not. Although the game's mechanics allow for a quick start to the endgame, it will take you a lengthy 6+ months per piece of endgame gear, meaning you will likely never see endgame if you purchase your gear with the in-game currency. This is due to the game's 13 slots that require a PEN ranking, which is the endgame. Furthermore, the game is heavily based on gambling, making it a genuine possibility that you may never reach the endgame if you are unlucky in going the primary route of enhancing your gear, as it is very likely you will fail the enhancement and have your gear reduced in rank or destroyed!
But that's not all. The game also has severe penalties while grinding mobs, making it even more difficult to progress. The complex crystal system in the game also allows you to break your crystal(s) on death, potentially setting you back 1-20+ hours of grinding and up to a month in waiting for the market to replace crystals that you will be unable to get on your own.
Finally, there are several Pay to Win mechanics sold in the Cash Shop. While BDO's super small community is actively trying to get them to change some of these glaring issues, so far, the Developers have stated they are not interested in changing gambling, pay-to-win items, or mechanics designed to stop your progression and likely even regress it. Don't be fooled by false claims; choose a game that values its players.
For several years, most of the small community left in BDO has been imploring Pearl Abyss to reconsider the current system whereby accessories are destroyed upon a failed enhancement. We have fervently requested that gear not suffer a permanent decrease in stats as a result of a failed enhancement and have pleaded for a mechanism to protect the crystals, which are essential for endgame activities, from destruction due to various factors such as desync, lag-spikes, and PVP feeding to mobs. Regrettably, Pearl Abyss has consistently declined all of our appeals. We urge players to select a game that prioritizes the well-being of their community, which the developers of Black Desert Online clearly do not.
man getting costumes of pre order in SEA x TH server is ridiculously hard, u'd be lucky to get 1 every 1 or 2 weeks. while all my upgrades are cron stone hungry, how can i catch up to those hard capped players especially with 3m vendor crone fuck sake PA
I haven't bought anything for months. I open the pearl shop and look at the costumes and think i quite like that and consider buying it. I then look at the actual cost of buying 4k pearls and think nah im not going to bother. Its basically the cost of buying a half decent game on Steam. I have no issues throwing money at cosmetics and content if its reasonably priced. I feel like PA are actually probably missing out on making sales to a significant part of the playerbase because they're just too damn greedy. Like a cosmetic costume should never cost more than £10 in any game ever. I play Dead by Deadlight a lot and have no issues spending like £10-15 for a new character and costume every time they drop new content. If they have a sale I'll buy multiple playable characters. It costs you like £4 for a new character or £10 for a new chapter. If you want a costume its like £7. That might still not be worth it to some people, but i don't mind supporting games I like to play, just not when its like £30-40 a pop.
on one side people get bait by p2w, on the other side people work hard irl and want to enjoy the game so p2w is the fast way to enjoy the game but i think the rng box is too much, they should give what p2w player paid for, for f2p player or low spent dont worry we can survive & enjoy the game without p2w its just take more time than p2w
As players, we showed too much love to PA without having anything in return, is time to drop this game, PA need to respect the players and start to be less greedy! A lot of games died doing like this and looks like Bdo will be the next!
I have gotten 500crons from that bundle and it felt like I just tapped PEN fallen god 😂
Likely more than half. No hate, I will keep staying logged in! But yeah the price of crons going up, fr insane.
Am i missing something? what is the "p2w" issue, if the shop is shit
Basically we’re heavily reliant on cron stones and they have been giving bad costume sales as of late. Now they’re selling more rng bundles with raw cron stones instead of
I feel it`s missing the point, if theres any adv items for sale its p2w, if its expensive its just less ppl whaling wich is better.
this game been p2w and p2p as well as f2p on private servers since 2014 so where is the issue ?
New p2w being added 😂
now i agree Lol@@imPansy
Wish Black Desert had 150k player base .
I don't get it to be honest. I think it is a good thing that they don't have good sales. If you can buy crons very cheap for real money, then it makes more people become p2w and it isn't a good thing in my opinion. This would also make the game die faster
You do realize it's not just crons that are needed for enhancement? Like the game has a progression that lasts lots of hours before you can actually meaningfully enhance. Tapping BS? You will either spend your time making it or buying it off of CM as an example. It's just making it hard for everyone.
I member when fits we’re just over 100 mil
That crons bundle are a joke XD
Sales probs baits some players im sure
Crons were 1m each back in the day, when they made them 2m and added value pack and costume melting we thought we had it bad, then they made the crons 3m each...it's now impossible to defend this..
You can now grind for 5x more silver per hour so it kinda makes sense. When crons were 1 mil, 200mil an hour was good.
@@tehanua4383ye Makes sense to fck every player with this 3m cron vendor change, go whale your shit to PEN c20 and stop whiteknightin for this greedy company 😂
Yeah...I'm surprised that they did the vendor cron bump with this price increase of the next one. I'm kinda surprised that they are not hitting the sales harder to push the P2W. But I don't care because I spent 150 bil on vendor crons before they increased it and tapped my last BS weapon. And honestly I am sitting on over 150 costume boxes if I need more crons. I have been stockpiling for years.
Time for the debo grind!
@imPansy could be. I can grind ash forest now so might do that instead of pen tungrad.
Insert *Its has always been.* meme here
Trrrrrruuuuuuuuuuu but now its worse :*(
Idk if the outfits are really p2w...if they were - wouldn't there be way more of them constantly in CM? I can see how they could be p2w i guess, but who is really spending $1,190 weekly for the win or even $595 if they bought them at 50% off?
I think the npc crons price hurt a lot of people due to the sudden sheer increase in price but mostly the high end players because they cant just buy npc crons as freely anymore. I highly doubt mid to lower end players were buying npc crons and with so much silver in the game right now, everyone was too comfortable with the npc cron price compared to the silver/hr that they were getting.
NPC crons hurt everyone, some people are just not at the stage yet. But the low discounts is getting kind of concerning.
@imPansy with the hit to revenue, they probably noticed people were mostly buying pearls/items during the "good/actual" discounts so they probably want to push sells all around by reducing the frequency of "good/actual" discounts. Hopefully , good ones come along soon for Halloween 🎃!
I actually got lucky on those cron boxes opened up 3 from events few months back and got the 2k and 1k, but I had a losing enhancing streak before of 8 fails of 70%+
None of this is P2W when RNG is involved. You can spend 600 dollars in costumes for 5-6 Pen BS taps. When you can fail upwards of 50+ times. Where is the win that I paied for?
Bru. It's not Pay-2-WIN. It's just Pay.
The game super-incentivises new players and then they fall off a cliff after two months. The world pvp which was a huge part of the game (yes, it was conflicty and toxic, but surprise, that is content) is dead. A lot of lifeskilling is kinda dead. The only thing alive is grinding in marni.
P2W only impacts pvp and content creators, and that's a fraction of the player base.
Copium
Pay to win affects everyone. If it’s not affecting you it just means you’re not at that point yet. You’ll understand when you have to tap your own pen blackstar because the market is stalled due to profit margins being too small for profit enhancers. It’s gonna take 1000s of hours to do what took 100s.
most of the gear you use for pve is made with crons surely it only impacts pvp and content creators
@@defuze56who use cron? the average casual just stay with tuvala. Pen gear are free or guarantee from quest. How many % of player actively participate in pvp content or end game grind?
@@zrolyn6367 a small percentage. I have 301 AP and never broke a single suit down. I use crons now and then when I have them, about it.
The P2W push is what stopped me from playing the game. You are at such a disadvantage if you don't spend money on the game.
Currently you are not at much of a disadvantage. Probably you didn't play that long, or played very long time ago during gear fame times. Currently it is pretty good, since more than a year.
I haven't bought pearls in 2 years and 4 months on the 22nd of this month, and I have been just fine.
I'm f2p on the game did not even buy the game,just got it on event and p2w players doesn't slow me down
@@someonesomeone529 You are at a disadvantage to a certain point, but after youve spent ~$100. Yeah.. you're pretty equal. Unless its a big whale, but those are rare.
But if you only pay $10 and and nothing more, you will definitely be at a disadvantage in terms of progression speed.
can u pvp like god
bro@@popNdawg
First
Congratulations, would you like to tell us the secret of your success?
Everything in life is timing.@@crx2164
@@crx2164 constantly refreshing UA-cam waiting for the last 10 minutes of my day end
Proud of you Colin
I feel like complaining about outfits not being on sale because you cant whale buy them to get crons is a streamer privilege, 99% of the playerbase doesnt buy outfits for crons
Wrong and wrong. I buy outfits from the market place. Everyone needs costumes (and/or crons) if they want to progress at the end game.
These changes are bad, sure. But you fear mongering and being super rude in these comments doesn’t help, unsubbed man.
Crons and costumes have never been necessary. Buy or tap it raw. They give out plenty of free crons and costumes. If you don't want to buy vendor crons then don't. But this Is certainly petty. Odds are money per hour over the next year will likely outpace the cron increase
i'm more sad that there like 0 event for this week, my guild is like too casual for this new guild event thing.