Do a take on flowers in the attic on the mother and grandmother. And how the mother betrayed her children for money and security. And to appeal to her mother and her father. And the grandmother’s very cruel strict and religious ways
I vividly remember in a college history class, I think this was 2008, our proff asked: "Who considers themselves a feminist?" Not a single of us raised our hands. Then she asked if we believed certain things: If men and women are created equal, deserve equal pay, etc etc... This time everyone raised their hands. Amazing how scared we were to be labeled "feminist" even though the basics of the movement were so obvious. What a weird era.
@@MechaJutaro There are different types of inequality (ethnicity, class, gender etc.), all of which require different approaches, solutions and therefore labels. Another reason to differentiate is to specifically acknowledge that one group is marginalized (and the other is not). By using vague terms as 'equality before the law' or 'ALM' you are downplaying (or outright not even recognizing) the oppression that these groups face. And by not recognizing, retention of the status quo is inevitable.
Feminism comes with a lot of ideological baggage including assumptions about the history of the world (the patriarchy and how its described) and assumptions about the current state of it. It's not the same to think that men and women should be equal than to be a feminist. That's a very false equivalency. Akin to saying that everyone who thinks we should have the same rights is a communist or that everyone who believes in progress is a nazi.
It’s much how people will agree in precepts like “managers and workers don’t always have the same interests” and “a company only hires someone if it makes them more money than they have to pay in wages”; but a majority will shy away if they have any leftist label suggested to them.
I agree that people were scared of the word feminist and still are, but there's a difference between saying "men and women should be equal" and wanting to destroy the patriarchy (wich is why feminism is needed for). Women don't want to be men, they don't want the rights men have (doing SA without going to prison, sexualizing women/the other gender, being strong by not crying...), they want to be treated with the same respect
Back in the '90's and 00's day we didn't have the phrase "Cool girl" yet. But the whole "feminism is over" reminds me of that. It was what many women were indicating when they said it. And it was, of course, mainly directed at heterosexual men. Basically telling them: "Don't worry, I'm not a feminist. I'm a fun, cool girl who doesn't complain, who will laugh at your misogynistic jokes and who doesn't nag about problems you don't experience."
If you haven’t seen The Take’s video on the Cool Girl archetype in film, go watch it because it is VERY good. It’s actually the first The Take video I watched and it turned me on to the channel!
@@loradailey5746 Agreed! And that whole trope was such an eye-opener for me. Growing up in the '80's and '90's we didn't have words and expressions for certain things. We knew something didn't sit right, but couldn't really put our finger on it. Tropes like cool girl, gaslighting, not like other girls and pick-me's are so spot on and I'm happy we're getting these expressions and The Take helps to make them mainstream.
@@christopherbrown5409 Because the first step to solving a problem is that the majority of the populace acknowledges there is a problem in the first place. If most people (mostly men, but some women too) simply ignore sexism, we will never be able to abolish it.
Annie Lennox also said “A lot of music you might listen to is pretty vapid, it doesn't always deal with our deeper issues. These are the things I'm interested in now, particularly at my age.” This is coming from a woman who made lots of money from the lyrics “sweet dreams are made of this” repeated over and over again.
@@LukeHarwood2913 that’s one of her songs The majority have a deeper meaning and lyrics Plus the music and arrangement clearly has complexity and originality to it compared to the shit she is referring to (probably Taylor swift or smthn)
One small disagreement: I loved Mulan because there was no explicit „happily ever after“ with a love interest. Just a possibility for it (I ignore Mulan 2). Her happy ending was to show her worth, safe her country and return to her loving family without need to fit in and find a husband anymore. And of course friends who came to the conclusion that her gender was not that important.
@@Nat-ls1uo Yeah, he just goes to see her at home. "Would you like to stay for dinner!" (and then the grandmother's "would you like to stay forever?" 😂)
Girl had to risk her life in a war, become a master in battle, surpass all the other soldiers, save a political figure's life AND become a hero in her country, in order to protect a patriarchal father, JUST so she can experience some level of appreciation... but still, no equality. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I have so many problems with Mulan.
@@FeministCatwoman Yeah, understand your point. But I see it as a story of getting unstuck from strict gender rules and finding a way to be herself. Of course she tries to protect her patriachal father but he protects her by letting her go and is also troubles by society`s expectations and the fear of "dishonour". With this backround he is very unconventional by letting her be herself even before she decides to go to war. She IS appreciated before but the whole family is stuck in expectations she can not match. It is unusual that the father is not totally mad about her failures in being a "proper girl" and "bring honour". Of course she comes back into the old family structure but there is no hint how she would lead her life afterwards. She is a warrior with high rank, honoured without husband, and surely has to figure out how she wants to live after the war.
How did women allow ourselves to be gaslit into saying we're not feminist or angry over the treatment of women? Like, how did we fall for that? Shouldn't we have stopped to ask ourselves why men conflate being held accountable for toxicity, with misandry?
Because some women weren't allowed to have the same opportunities as their male counterparts and were raised with strictly enforced gender roles and education for women was frowned upon.
That’s how gaslighting works, we presented what we had to in order to not be targeted and ostracized. We have to forgive our survivalist behaviors to learn from it
@@bibianaguadalupeislasherre9880 In the 2000s? Maybe there was a reason for that in the 70s or 80s, but if it's a post-feminist society, then why should women be gaslit about feminism at all? If there was such a thing as post-feminist, no way would women feel under pressure to play the man-pandering card. Certain things just speak for themselves. That's my point.
It's not just women. It happens to POC and poor sections of society too. People in power have a knack to gaslight and brainwash the less privileged to think that their worst enemies are themselves.
I need something to cheer me up now. The 00’s were my formative years - this video explains why so many women my age are so full of self doubt, self loathing and their own internalized misogyny.
Love does lead to more happiness then work, so whoever you love focus on that. Self loathing and doubt are harder when you love someone and they love you.
All those headlines asking if feminism was dead are so revealing of that era. Society in the 2000s tried to wish feminism into no longer being real, valid and relevant. As someone who turned 15 in 2000, I was extremely confused about what was going on. I grew up to believe that I could be loved AND be smart AND be taken seriously, but pop culture, the media and even fashion were sending a completely opposite message. Careers were for women who had decided to be special instead of being happy, but eventually they would come to their senses and turn into "regular, good women". I do believe that stigmatizing traditional feminine qualities and appearance has done a lot of harm, and that internalized misogyny is a real issue. I also believe that a lot of those so-called gains were actually weaponized and used against women to further degrade and exploit them. I have noticed recently how women are accepted in the workplace as long as they stay in their lane, that is doing jobs focused on emotional work, caring, and nurturing (think nurse, teacher, counsellor), but how much push back they face when they are in leadership and decision-making roles. No matter what you think of the excess of feminism, women are still underpaid, exploited, abused and brutalized for being women. At best, claiming that you are not a feminist maintains the status quo. At worst, it is making the situation regress - looking over at you Texas.
Right? I find these types of falsely "pro-woman" shows so off putting. They claim to bring the 'realness' of what it means to live as a 'strong, independent woman' - except they depict these women embarking on patronizing, somewhat humiliating and childish little storylines. At the end of the day, it convinces viewers that being "like that" (aka an independent woman) is an awkward, often humiliating and deluded experience. The shows themselves don't take women seriously. They do nothing to promote independence or feminism because they play off the experience of being a woman as being an awkward, bumbling, childlish experience, turning it into a mockery rather than accomplishment.
and even when women have technical jobs identical to those of their male coworkers, they’re still expected to shoulder almost all the emotional labor of their workplace less they be seen as cold/b*tchy and denied opportunities for advancement that even the most anti-social jerks are often given, because (studies have clearly shown) that women’s job performance is perceived only half based on their ACTUAL performance and half based on how consistently nice/friendly and willing to pick up the emotional or ‘feminine’ labor they are.. if they don’t do that, their ACTUAL performance is perceived to be worse 😓😓😓
@@hamidkarim4811 Most feminists are anti-toxic masculinity. As they should be. If you equate toxic masculinity with maleness, then that's YOUR problem. Not feminism's.
Mulan doesn’t fit this discourse to me. Her achievement comes with saving her country and learning her family loves her regardless. She self actualizes on her own.
I agree with this. Shang showing up on her door step at the end of the movie has nothing to do with this. Earning his affection as well as his respect as a soldier as a woman was just a nice bonus. Mulan is not actualized by getting the guy in the end.
True. There's no need for post-patriarchy, when the patriarchy was never more than a vague, amorphous delusion cooked up in the consciousness raising groups of the 70s
@@MechaJutaro I guess you don’t open many books very often. Most western Judeo-Christian societies are patriarchal, unless you’re willing to tell me that leadership isn’t traditionally established in a patrilineal fashion, or that women aren’t exchanged as property from father to husband when married, or that daughters somehow inherit property at the same rate as sons. It’s funny you mentioned the 70s, because women couldn’t open their own bank accounts in America until that decade. Hell it was only ten years prior that could be allowed to attend Ivy League institutions and legally apply to law school. If you disagree I’d love to hear all about those great matrilineal success stories and all those centuries of assumed female leadership and superiority.
you should add Amy Winehouse to this list; in the "AMY" documentary there is a scene of a paparazzi guy literally hitting her in the head with his camera and no one at all helps her, instead taking more pictures
@@TheBoxingCannabyte The paparazzi is a small piece of a far bigger problem. It's the tabloids that pay top dollar for for photographs of controversy and exploitation. Why do tabloids pay top dollar to paparazzi? Because there is a huge market for controversy and exploitation. Who are the people who spend money in buying these tabloid magazines? The majority buying these is women. If women stopped buying into tabloid schadenfreude, the paparazzi would die off due to lack of demand, and start taking photographs for National Geographic. Products never survive if there is no demand for it.
I've always found it bizzare that SATC was heralded as some feminist game changer when most of the conversation and aspiration revolves around men. I doubt a single episode would pass the bechdel test
@The Progressive Brit that doesn't mean it reflects the essence of women. I agree that it was the only show that portrayed single women who owned their sexuality and money in the 90's, otherwise women lacked sensitivity or depth. It was written based on the idea of men about how a woman should be and it shows.
Honestly I was born in the 2000s and I hated those types of movies as a child, they always showed woman that were rich, strong, determined and feminine yet always spend the whole time pinning an unattractive zero chemistry guy, I was convinced that woman must marry man even if they aren't happy about it
@@lisah8438 that is cool but I am a lesbian ,this comment is posted from a lesbian perspective, and not matter what guys do I just can't find them attractive
@@lisah8438 True, but why are women forced to lower their standards when it comes to dating men? Is it because if they don’t lower them, they get branded as a “shallow bitch”? Men aren’t told to lower their standards and therefore tolerate ugly women. That’s why you tend to see more films about ugly men hooking up with gorgeous women than the inverse.
@@beethovensfidelio My dad told me that I shouldn’t be too picky or else I’ll be alone and childless. It always made me worry that if I didn’t hurry I’d be alone. My dad is a boomer of course so I see why he tried to train me that way. I’m okay with waiting, I find friendship is the best way to find love.
Gonna have to hard disagree on Miss Congeniality again. Miss Congeniality is basically a "Not Like Other Girls" metamorphosis. Gracie was was woman who held disdain for women and femininity, not necessarily because she opposed it, but because she (like the rest of us) saw how men/society held women and their interests in contempt. But she participates in the disdain and still gets shat on by male society for completely rejecting womanhood. Only when she enters this hyperfeminine space and sees that it's not the worst thing in the world does she let those things go and embraces some aspects of femininity. To say the the movie suggest addressing issues of institutional sexism is through femininity is a really wild take on the movie. In reality the movie never presented Gracie with a solution to sexism in her workplace. It was still very much there at the end of the movie. I am not sure where yall saw some sort of change. The movie wasn't about Gracie gaining respect at her job or advancing her career. It was about personal growth that neither centered on a man or her career.
But at the end of the movie, she does "get the man" who belittled her before she started presenting in a more traditionally feminine way. The movie does some wonderful things in terms of teaching her to appreciate other women and support them and stop shaming herself for being a woman, but it doesn't necessarily go far enough that she's able to recognize that she shouldn't date a sexist guy, especially when you think about how the movie is framed from the very beginning with her having a crush on a little boy and being rejected, as if her primary motivation all along was just to be in a romantic relationship.
@@lindsaymorrison7519 Yes. That was a weak point for sure. But the transformation wasn't about him. The "romance" was a b-plot, and was secondary to Gracie's character arc. I mean we can literally take that out of the movie and would have little consequences to the story structure.
there's a second part that apologises for making her feminine, tho. they basically made some commentary on their previous part and why it was wrong of them to do it however, i feel like the hate towards masculine women is tied more to homophobia than sexism, especially given the "that's so gay" phrase used in a negative way
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 i do not give a fuck about who does what. but if people are gonna degrade specific kinds of women because they think they're not progressive or "traditional" enough, i will have an issue. criticizing negative aspects of "buzzfeed" feminism isn't misogyny at all. same as criticizing a country's government doesn't make you xenophobic or bigoted. i'm not gonna pretend like third wave feminism lacks issues. just because it's a progressive movement doesn't mean it can't have some idiots misrepresenting it or some freaks with an inferiority complex pushing it to dumb extremes. and i have a mind of my own and don't cater to anybody but myself, but nice try
This was a great take on the Post Feminism era in the 2000’s as someone who was overweight, a child, and a teen in the 2000’s I had a lot of internalized mysogyny because I wasn’t the hyper feminine women (although I’m more feminine than I was ever now at 30 I’m still not at the hyper feminine stage yet) Even in Junior College I was in the Feminist club and I struggled with liking feminine things versus sticking to the Feminist traits. I still identify as a Feminist but I don’t believe in hating women because they express unfeminine or feminine traits. Thank you for doing this Take I’m excited to see more of these!!!!!
I used to get so much backlash then because I would point out that recreational lesbianism (i.e. "make out with your friend to get guys' attention, it's hot!"), girls/women acting stupid as "a character," and going to strip clubs was actually DISEMPOWERING. Why is it "feminist" to treat women like men do, and objectify us and our sexuality the same ways? You weren't a feminist if you said you were a feminist and were for equal rights, that was "controversial" and "off-putting." But boy howdy, if you wore an "ironic" Playboy t-shirt and jammed dollar bills into strippers' g-strings, you were celebrated as a "strong, powerful woman." Go figure.
The Spice Girls and the Sugarbabes were going to strip clubs and practising pole dancing according to Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy and Living Dolls by Natasha Walters because women were undeer pressure to accept raunch culture.
@@Caterfree10 you're actually making my point. There is nothing "sex positive" about two women who are not gay/bi making out in order to get guys' approval...and being told that if you don't want to make out with another woman, you aren't "sex positive." Being told that you need to go with the guys to a strip club and if you don't, you're a prude is not "sex positive." Being told you need to frame your sexuality only in ways that are prefered by men/the patriarchy is not "sex positive." Some people are comfortable experimenting or being objectified, but if we don't want to be, that does not mean that we are not "sex positive."
@@Caterfree10 she said it wasn't feminist, she didn't say we should forbid these women to practice or "a woman showing her sexuality is bad and she doesn't deserve respect". So what is wrong with pointing out the impact of this industry?
I think with legally blonde, the “feminist” character is more to illustrate the type of feminist who claims to be pro woman but frequently shames other woman and their choices and dislikes women who choose to be traditionally more feminine
I hate to say this, (I mean, I really hate it) but this is not just a product of the 00s. This has been ongoing for centuries. Women have been subjugated for so long, it's only in the last 100 years or so that we've made any real strides towards any kind of equality (which I know seems a long time, but is relatively recent). Roe is only 48 years old, women have only had the vote for about 100 years. Not until 1993 was marital rape made a crime in all 50 states. Still, in the 1990s, most states continued to differentiate between the way marital rape and non-marital rape was viewed and treated. Women in North Carolina STILL need a husband's permission to buy property. I could go on and on. The feminist fight is ever-growing and ever-changing, and has serious enemies in those invested in keeping women from finding our power. The fact that we are still fighting the legality of Roe, that we still haven't had a woman president or that Kamala being VP is groundbreaking speaks to both how far we've come and how far we still have to go.
"women in North Carolina still need their husband's permission to buy property" I'm sorry what?? I'm not from the US btw, so I don't know as much about specific states. Sadly I agree with you. 100 years really isn't that long at all, I mean in the UK (where I'm from) it hasn't even been a full 100 years since women got the vote on equal terms to men (1928). In Switzerland, some women didn't get it until the early 90s (forgot the exact year). One thing I think that will take very long to rectify is the health/medical research gap between men and women. In the US, women have only been included in clinical trials since 1993. (I suggest the yt video "Is medicine sexist?" by Jessica Kellgren-Fozard if anyone wants to learn more about that) Edited to add more stuff
THANK YOU! women have been subjugated for more than 3 millenia. 100 years of "equality" (which is still not a thing yet) is nothing. We have a very loooong way to go
@@aceatlasska4343 a good friend wanted to buy a house in NC about 10 years ago. She was separated from her husband but not divorced. She had to divorce him in order to buy the house without his his signed "permission" and he would have been considered co-owner even though he contributed nothing to the purchase.
@@tracyroweauthor Exactly. By that logic why are men expected to give their houses to vvo main after divorce, alimony 50% of his property .... since those vvo main didn't contribute anything to that purchase/property. vvo main are capable of earning money and do infact earn money. then why do we consider them like child who aren't capable of providing themselves.... forget about paying for their *own child* . (which should be 50-50 since vvo main is capable of earning too) also why do vvo main expect men to foot majority bills when they're earning money too? would vvo main marry man who expects you to do 50-50 chores while you're providing all his bills/ majority bills? (most working vvo main expect 50-50 housework but don't want 50-50 when paying bills, rent,car, travel and buying property)
Despite growing up into my teens in the 2000's, I have no Nostalgia for that decade (I much prefer the 90's) For me that decade was toxic for everyone. As a minority who was bullied a lot in high school, I can't help but feel that Sexist and Racist jokes where everywhere and trying to be as shocking as possible, leading me to believe it might had been a product of the War on Terror and racist being used as a excuse to be "Patriotic" and mock other people. With that, yeah Sexist jokes were abundant in the 2000's and it was a lot like the Big Bang Theory, "Hey look at us make sexist jokes but is funny because we are pointing how funny it is we are Sexist!". Hell this was also the Paparazzi Decade where they made a whole circus when Britney had her breakdown and people where mocking her in the tabloids, as oppose to taking her mental health seriously. Sure people will look fondly at the 2000's, but for me even the media it produce had hints of the mean spiritedness of that decade (Like Shrek using a old fairy tale as toilet paper).
I interpreted the feminist character in Legally Blonde to be more of a commentary on feminists who demonize hyperfeminine women. Which, in my experience, is unfortunately fairly common in non-intersectional circles.
I half agree as she assumes that Elle is a mean girl based on her appearance. But is wrong. But they also do poke fun at her a bit. Like at the house party and changing the name semester when there are other issues that are arguing more pressing ie rape and sexual assault on campuses. I get it’s a comedy by they could have showed her in a better light.
Not gonna lie, that always bothered me. I'm a more androgynous woman, but the way more feminine women were treated as inane or shallow rubbed me up the wrong way. I love the company of women, in all sorts of ways, and with all kinds of women.
Exactly. Looking down on hyperfeminine women in favor of more masculine qualities isn't feminism, it's just a different form of misogyny because femininity and feminine traits are still inferior to masculinity.
I think this is the reason why anti-sjw cringe really caught on on the internet. The thought that our world is already perfect, that any thought that there's no social problems left to be addressed and anyone who said otherwise is crazy/whiny is the reason why so many people jumped on the anti-sjw gamergate train
The hate train for SJWs began as a way to make fun of people with the empathy to want social change, but too incompetent to address them. But, then SJW was conflated to mean anyone who fights for social change. If you gender/color swap a character because you want more female/ethnic representation, even when the gender/ethnicity of that character is not a core component of that character, you may face backlash.
I think it’s like a pendulum, we swung so much to the other side (hating femeninity) because they were imposed on us for the longest time. Now that things keep balancing out, I’m just glad feminism has evolved so much that we now have intersectionality and a diversity of opinions, not just from skinny, cis, able bodied, straight women.
Tbh feminism never centered around skinny cis able bodied straight women BUT that being said, a lot of the women who were majorly contributing to the feminist movement were not getting the credit they deserved. Especially in the 2000’s there was a narrow “type” of women who was able to benefit from feminism (and even then she was only able to benefit to an extent) and other stories were thrown under the bus. I’m glad that we’re out here trying to give credit and platforms to people of diverse backgrounds. I’m only adding this to say that we owe our current human rights to a wide variety of women and backgrounds, even if these women don’t always get the credit they are owed.
Intersectionality is not new. The contradictions and gaps in the kind of feminism examined here have long been pointed out- like as far back as the 1960s women's movement itself. But those voices were not given platforms. It's great ideas like intersectionality are getting more platform now- but just remember they aren't the evolution of feminism- they were a critique that grew alongside it.
While I do believe men and women can be fulfilled by other things other than a partner: a career, family binds, friends, etc., I do not like how it always had to be one or the other: work or a partner. They go together. Most of us want to have a career but not be married to it as well as find someone who shares our values and beliefs and to come home to every night. People should not be shamed for wanting or finding love. I know everyone does not share this viewpoint, but it seems to be feminist now and days a partner should not be in the picture. This is what I liked in sex and the city 2 (not the whole movie), but what Miranda did. She left a job that did not benefit her or her family. In the end, she found a firm that was a healthy balance for her, but still allowed her to spend time with her family.
In my view, the problem here is that some feminists stopped at the second wave and have been too eager to absorb male-centric goals and priorities into feminist liberation. The goal should be for men and others to also adopt some traditionally "feminine" priorities. True gender liberation, which includes breaking down the binary to begin with.
I think you would love the books of bell hooks (if you haven’t read them already). My favorites are All About Love Communion: the female search for love The Will To Change: men, masculinity, and love She was writing these in the early 00s as a kind of feminist critique of the feminism of the time. Her work is very empathetic and eye opening. She specifically didn’t like how the feminists of the era were more focused on gaining economic power/equality in the markets and not equality in domestic life, they didn’t demand that men and women deserve healthy love lives with a healthy work life that enhances their ability to create relationships. The feminism of the early 00s wasn’t at all relationship oriented, which I feel is what feminists today are realizing, we’ve been duped into believing economic power would solve all our problems and not to worry about love. I feel dumb for having praised a company’s “first female ceo” in the past, cause it doesn’t matter if the people under her don’t get maternity/paternity leave or have an exploitive work environment that they take home and then stress out their family/love life with
The reason it has to be one or the other is that women know they will have to take on a disproportionate amount of childcare snd other reproductive labour if they go the partner route which wont leave them the time and the energy to pursue their career. Why do men never have to pick one? Coz they know thay the woman will do all the legwork.
I do feel sad that celebrities don’t acknowledge themselves as feminists but I suspect the backlash is quite serious. Although we live in a very disquieting time so we cannot even fear the idea of fear itself.
@@Chris-rg6nm In the dimension you inhabit, perhaps. Don’t take it personally and I’m not discounting the strides taken in the right direction, but there’s a long way to go to achieve equality and equity en masse.
especially since humanist doesnt mean what they think it means.. the word they're looking for is feminist. im always disappointed when i hear someone say theyre not a feminist. maybe the gagas and streeps of the world can afford to distance themselves from this word, but marginalising it hurts the majority of us who face the very real consequences of institutionalised misogyny
Great video! Suggestion: perhaps do a video about popular culture's reluctance, and sometimes refusal, to depict childfree women as sympathetic characters? We're still told in a hundred different ways that if we don't want children, we're horrible people who are Doing Womanhood Wrong.
My "favourite" nonsense I heard was "A right man will change your opinion. " As if I would suffer a spontaneous lobotomy and suddenly desire to have children. No matter how kind or emapthic I am to people, simply not having kids equals to me being a selfish brat.
The 00's felt like the era of Shock Culture, it was peppered in every stand-up comedian and tv show that it became White Noise to the masses. Naturally this aged like milk in the following decade.
As a feminist, working is not about finding happiness, it's about being financially independent. Any working woman is much happier than a woman stuck in a bad relationship she can't leave because of financial reasons. It's not about hating men. It's simply about being smart and in control of your own life. I'd love to stay at home and cook and clean all day if I could do so without having to find a man to support me.
Most single working mothers are not financially independent. just because you have a job, that doesn't mean you are financially independent. Most married working mothers are not financially independent either since they would fall into the same poverty trap as those single mothers if they were to divorce. This is why women, especially those with good jobs, will put up with a man-child until their children are teens are into adulthood before asking for a divorce. If you cannot maintain your married lifestyle without your spouse, you are not financially independent. If you are a single working mother who has to work overtime, more than one job, live in a bad neighborhood, only have a tiny savings or do any sort of penny pinching or asking for assistance, then you are not financially independent either. We have to get away from this idea, because this false idea of working women having financial independence is one of the things holding us back from getting things like maternal and paternal leave, universal healthcare, free childcare for all, etc. After all, why would anyone need any of that if all women had to do was get off their asses and go to work, right? I don't see the single mother struggling to make ends meet or the married working mother holding up her entire family as being any more financially independent or feminist than my SAHM self when they have to struggle to raise children that the fathers should also be contributing an equal amount of time and money towards.
Post feminism in the 2000s aggravated me to no end. Women declaring themselves as not being a feminist but a humanist when there were SO MANY issues faced by women even in first world countries. The internalized misogyny drove me crazy! And women ACTUALLY falling for the bullshit men convinced them of that women had everything. Ugh! I felt like the only feminist in a sea of rampant misogyny in my 20s during the 2000s and it sucked and I’m a white woman in a first class country. I knew it was WAY worse for bipoc, trans women and women in other countries in the world and no one was talking about it! I can’t even imagine how horrible it was for them at this time and it’s still horrible and they’re expected to not get mad but explain in a calm manner why something someone did was wrong? I’d don’t blame them at all for feeling enraged. Tbh I don’t really feel I have any right to talk about it because I don’t know just how awful it is
This such an important take. One thing I've issue that I still have with the progressive feminism of today is that the terms of liberation are in a capitalist context. You either are a woman chained to the patriarchy with not much economic output (which is quite false, there is an economic value on "traditional" domestic work) or your independent and driven only in a career or financial context. I understand that it is the reality of the society we live in but I feel like we should look beyond that. My independence shouldn't solely be judged by whether im financially or labor-wise successful
Isn't Legally Blonde and Miss Congeniality more about different types of women becoming friends despite their differences? As both Gracie and the woman from Legally Blonde judge hyper feminine women until they get to know them. Also, it can be difficult to apply modern thinking to things that were created in a specific time
I agree - I think they're both (partly) about women embracing 'different types of femininity' as valid and not to be scared/jealous of. Teaching women not to be afraid of your femininity (or of others) in order to be taken seriously too. For the 2000s this was a big deal.
I thought they were about the dumb blinde is valid and the ugly strong female can be beautiful and kind if she do makeup and grow some boobs, respectively.
This is the ongoing struggle with any discourse about feminism, it almost always comes down to how well-off white women are doing, and not the rest of us. I am less concerned with how upwardly-mobile women are doing than how the poorest women are doing. Even as a precarious middle-class black woman, I know that the issues really go beyond me. There is little to no mention in this video essay of how poor women in this country have faired. It would have meant talking less about how Bill Clinton treated Monica Lewinsky and more about how Clinton gutted welfare leaving millions of poor women and single mothers in deeper poverty. We don't talk enough about poverty because in this country we associate being poor with a screw up or a loser. Instead, this could have been an opportunity to mention that the decline of women's wages correlated to decline of working class wages and increased decimation of labor unions in the 1970s and 1980s. All women who work are affected by late stage capitalism, and without a strong militant labor workforce we will not see those gains again.
Lets not forget that women on tv and film in the 90s and 00s were 99% written by men projecting their sexual ideals and using the female character as their mouth piece to vent their frustrations with feminism and a set example of how they think a women should act and the male love interest is always the male writer's stand in
"If misogyny's the water everyone is swimming in, and the party line is that it's been eradicated, how do you even summon the vocabulary or get anyone to listen when you try to voice what's happening to you?" It was just too comforting to keep avoiding reality.
I remember in 2012 hearing Rush Limbaugh and his ilk throwing around the term “ femin@zi “ and that’s when I realized post feminism had failed so many women.
I’m so glad this era has ended, I was born in the 90s and didn’t question beauty standards, lack of representation and misogynistic treatment of celebrities. I grew up being a pick me girl (I cringe as I recall some situations) saying things like “I only listen to male vocals, Women just make too girly music” 😭 and not calling myself a feminist because “I like men”. But now I see a huge change and I'm glad that we became more self aware and are having this conversation. Meanwhile our basic human right are taken away from us (e.g. Texas, I'm from Poland and it happened to us as well).
Omg I was born in the 90s too and as a teenager in the 2000s I said stuff like "I'm only friends with boys, girls are just so exhausting." and things like that.. so cringey. But I didn't know better and didn't actually dislike girls... I just said that stuff because it's what the "comfortable" (to boys) girls would say. I wish I could tell my younger self to not be so self-hating...
It's sad because even when girls say that, it reinforces to boys (and other girls) that girls are catty and don't get along with each other, and then there is no respect for them. I grew up in a house fullllll of girls (eight girls, one boy!) and they not only got along with each other but had such close knit friendships with the girls their age at school/work/church, there was almost no drama (a few people who tried to start stuff, but it wasn't just my sisters, my dad had problems with some of his friends too, bc that's humanity), and I never saw any hostility towards new girls, pretty girls, popular girls, etc, I only ever saw them welcome people (girls _and_ boys) with open arms. I didn't realize there was such animosity towards girls being nice to each other until I started spending more time online and realized there is a lot of hatred and discouragement of girls having healthy, symbiotic, mature relationships with each other. There will always be immature people who tear others down, but I've seen that in young _and_ old people, in men _and_ women, and I don't see how anyone could see it as a problem only one sex deals with.
@@gdaym8y What about "Twilight" and it's message towards girls and young women? I'm never interested in that garbage at all because of the toxic relationships being romanticized and Bella never having any interesting character. I like to draw and write and I want my female characters to be diverse in personality and background not a plank of wood like Bella and the women in Michael Bay films
@@maryumgardner5958 I think the hatred towards Twilight is part of the insiduous anti-feminism that insists any properties marketed towards young women are inherently dumb and unworthy. It's not perfect, but the hatred towards it is about hating teenage girls and their interests, not about Twilight.
I think this was just an answer to women's disappointment with promises of feminism and independance. Because they never became truly equal, they just had more roles and expectations put on them. Now instead of being a mother, a housekeeper and a wife, they had to be ALL THAT and a successful, ambitious capitalist worker. And while men were forgiven for putting their families and relationships on the backburner in favour of their jib and success, women were judged for it, but also judged if they chose a more traditional approach. Toxic workplace and capitalism and obsession with careers and money benefit no one, neither men nor women. Everbody should work to live, not live to work
I was thinking the same thing towards the beginning of the video talking about the 90s TV shows. They aren't happy with careers because humans aren't their jobs. This is a problem women AND men face. We are much more than paychecks, reputations, and job titles.
I am ashamed to say that during this period, I too distanced myself from feminism. As a kid in the 90s who attended Catholic school I thought of myself as a fierce feminist but by the time I graduated high school and started college that term to me meant hating men. Looking back I only adopted this belief bc of the media. Now that I am older and have a better understanding of the world, I am a proud feminist. This also illustrates to me just how effective the media is in shaping people's view points, mine included. It's important that we always question what we believe. Do we really feel this way or are we being influenced by the medi.
I found laci green and other feminists at an early age. I remember being in my 6th grade class, were I said something about feminism, and my female teacher said “oh Hailey of course, *YOURE* a feminist.” It hit me that people dislike me more if they know my values. I will be seen as difficult, and uncool, and unable to have fun. It’s rough learning the world actually hates women.
Because women in the 2000s were embracing their sexuality as well as hyper femininity / femininity and it being praised by some and demonized by most as well as seeing theses women being successful caused uproars of hate. Can you do a video about my why black women aren’t allowed to embrace their femininity?
@@srami004 In 2004 he accidentally caused Janet Jackson to have a fashion malfunction. It didn't affected him at all and it was all blamed on Janet. She was disgraced while he got off Scot free.
@@mewesquirrel6720 When he didn't say shit in her defense and let the public narrative burn her career down? And standing up for her would have stupidly easy? Yeah. It was. Still is.
I became an ardent feminist in the mid-2010s amid the "anti-SJW" and "anti-feminist" movements that dominated UA-cam and other social media platforms for so long. The backlash against Rebecca Watson -- and Richard Dawkins's response to her -- for daring to suggest that following a woman into an elevator, alone, at 5 in the morning and "asking her to his room for coffee" might make her a bit uncomfortable and that he probably shouldn't do that led me down a seemingly unending rabbit-hole of misogyny and male supremacy that still boils my blood when I think of it. The fact that that male supremacist attitude so often goes hand-in-hand with white supremacy should come as no surprise to anyone. There used to be a series on UA-cam called "What's Wrong with Feminism" that catalogued a lot of MRA nonsense, but sadly that channel has been gone for a long time.
Post-Feminism seemed to be code for Cis, Able bodied, Pretty TM, Thin, Het White Feminism; looking back. Anyone think that Bridget's fits were inspired by Monica Lewinsky during the scandal. Big diff being that Monica had fashion flair and was a brunette I also want to point out that it's possible to bumble and fail (and still succeed) like Bridget if you came from and from the same upper middle class background as she. Look at her upbringing and the house she grew up in, it looks like it'd belong around the country clubs in my town.
Do you have any idea who is replying to your comment right now? It's the FUNNIEST MAN ALIVE! Me funny (!!!) vids are so extremely funny, if you don't cry tears of laughter, you are allowed to thumb down me XTREMELY FUNNY vids! Do you think me funny (!!!) vids are funny, dear jes
@@queenemma5823 No. I was speaking of costume design. But Beanie as Monica gave me Joan Holloway vibes, if Joan was more naive and worked as a DC intern during the decade of Heroin Chic
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 ahh, I see what you mean now. I didn’t realize ‘fits was short for ‘outfits. I was thinking fits as in fits of emotion (like fits of rage). That makes a lot more sense
I was at the beginning of my teens in the '00s. Now I'm 30, and despite a lot of work over the years, I'm still suffering from ED and BDD... a horrible time to be at that age.
this confirms my belief growing up (and now) that the 00's sucked. Back then we looked back on the 80s with disdain but man the consciousness and renewed artistic integrity in our culture right now confirms some of the toxic shit of the 00s. As a man this video taught me a lot. I knew there was misogyny ahoy with Britney and Paris etc. but I realize how extensive it was now.
Just like the last third of this video, I've been appreciating how people are re-thinking the way certain women were reviled in the 90s/ early 00s (I recommend the 'You're Wrong About' podcast's episodes about Lewinsky, Anna Nicole Smith, and other maligned women of the 90s) Also, you used a clip from the movie Last Supper, which is so deliciously effed up and makes me like this channel even more.
I've always seen Legally Blonde and Miss Congeniality as lessons to embrace femininity as valuable part of society/ getting things done right. It could be because I was "one of the boys" growing up and had a lot to unpack in progress to become stable adult. I was a teen in early '00 so this video really hits the spot.
Thank you for explaining why I was so depressed and miserable in the 00s! Now I know it wasn't all in my head. :) I was brainwashed into thinking that there was this one "feminism" - which really wasn't even feminism but supposedly post-.
There’s a strong element of nostalgia that plays into a current cultural moment. The 2000’s were a 80’s nostalgia era, one where conservative ideals were played up and “men are men” narratives were shoved forward. To be a feminist was to be considered “a bitch” or “difficult.” Sadly, too many people have a desire to live in 1983-1989, the peak years of Reaganism, Moral Majority conservatism. Notice how in the 1990s there was a cultural trend to equalize women’s access to work. Then a drop in the 2000s up through today, although the pandemic has affected that drop of women disproportionately. We are seeing a return to feminism in part as a reaction to the cultural shift of the past 20 years.
@@ridizzle189 there's nothing wrong with learning about the world and its social issues. It might give them another perspective about our society's culture than blaming themselves for things they cannot control. It's better for them to learn of this phenomenon in our society than being blind in this atmosphere in social media craze and entertainment culture.
I’m so excited about this series! It’s been really interesting to re-examine how our society treated Paris, Britney, Jessica Simpson, etc and realize now how HORRIFIC it was and reflect how that treatment affected my own view of (and fear around my own) femininity growing up.
I prolly have a simplistic view of Feminism: simply put, its the ability to give people pants or skirts. If they wear skirts, don't question them when they wear pants, and vice versa. The problem with society is that we're forced to take one label, and then we get severely punished once we chose our side. We are encouraged to be mothers, but we're looked down on when we go out or continue to work. A mother can love her children without worshipping them and being there 24/7 yknow? If we choose to become childless, we are called selfish, and also expected to 'pull our weight' and work, or we are titled as 'trophy wives'. This is a problem across genders, but largely more visible with people identifying as women. If we could only just not be in each other's business for as long as we dont hurt or kill anyone...
I love that as white women you always acknowledge how women of colour have different experiences and treatment on screen when talking about gender issues. It’s very important to the conversation and too often feminist issues get reduced to just cis, straight, white feminist issues rather.
Please make a video about how the beauty standards for women of today perpetuate the idea that only beautiful women are worthy of attention (being listened to, being taken into consideration and also getting male attention). Because it is a pattern in society and it needs to be named.
I don't hear men describing themselves by their relationship status or parental status. It's often the occupation or job they do. When I say what I do when asked by others it's always another voice that asks about family and kids as if I have left something important out. But, I never hear the same questions asked of men. And somehow that is sexist? To whom? Seems to me it would bevtp women. Yes, we becomes wives and mothers. We also are professors, doctors, lawyers, ceos, business owners, realtors contractors, police force,fire fighters, etc. I'm a neuroscientist and professor. The mother and daughter categories are important, but I had to earn my degrees. Getting pregnant wasn't that hard. So while I adore my son and would give up my life for him, becoming a mother isn't the hardest thing I've ever done.
my mom was a geology major. That was the hard part. Like you said, it wasn't hard to become a mother or a wife. Of course, if someone wants to define themselves as a mother first (which is hard in a different way), more power to them. Female empowerment is about the female and what empowers the individual female, so if being a mom empowers you, then we should 100% support and encourage that. But if a woman wants to define herself by her career, why stop her? That's what she wants to be known for, and she's worked hard for that, so let's reward her efforts. Just like if a man wants to be known first as a dad and second as a construction worker, absolutely. But if you'd rather be known as a construction worker and then a dad, that's valid too. Even if it's not what we'd choose to represent ourselves by, who cares? It's what they want to identify with, and we are not them, so it's none of our business.
Getting pregnant and giving birth aren't what make you a mother. And being a good parent is the most important role anyone can fill regardless of gender. The problem with any ideology is that they involve reductively distorted world views, like the notion that a career and family are fundamentally at odds with each other or dichotomous, when work provides materials for family and family provides purpose to make productive work bearable.
The myth of postfeminism you hit the nail on the head when it recognized the goals for ciswhitehetero-upper/middle class women were partially actualized. And, it's interesting how second-wave feminism was involving into third wave feminism and the need for inclusion of all women, not just the defaulted white women, and how far we need to go. With all the shows mentioned, the experiences of women of color were secondary to that of the white woman professional protagonist. Ally McBeal had a black roommate who was also a lawyer, but we never saw Renee in the courtroom. Samantha Jones dated a Black man, and felt entitled to respect when his sister did not look kindly on that relationship, not to mention the loud transgender hookers outside of her apartment. So, if Sex and the City is being revived now, will the harms of the seasons and the two movies perpetuate?
@@outinsider Samantha did know why, the sister told her that she didn't want her brother to end up with a white women. I admit Samantha may have defended herself too aggressively but the sister had no business interfering with her brother's love life just because of race.
@@franciscoancer2618 White people do that all the time, and Samantha wasn't exactly innocent in that regard. She just felt too entitled to her recent boyfriend at the time, and fetished him. Because the show is about white women and written by a white man, it was made to look like her problem. There are valid reasons why Black people like the sister feel that way that went unexplored.
@@franciscoancer2618 And Samantha, like any white person, felt entitled to treat Black people however she wished regardless of treating them like people. That's why the treatment of her lover and his sister is racist.
The saddest thing for me at this specific moment is that women can make such a great, informative video like this and still the comments are full of men misinterpreting and misunderstanding it. However.. This video made me feel good about where we are now vs just 10 years ago
I'm confused. How is finding happiness in relationships unfulfilling? The family man often praised for putting his family first over his career, but the family woman is unambitious?
Because historically women were forced to put the needs of her husband and children first. And that’s not getting into the stress of taking of the children, maintaining the house, AND working outside the home. At least the husband just works all day and expects dinner on the table. He’s not expected to do chores and take care of the kids. So it’s no wonder heterosexual women are more likely to file for divorce.
@@mastersnet18 And historically that fell and often still falls on deaf ears in the best of cases or was and still is answered with domestic abuse in the worst of cases.
@@mastersnet18 In many western countries they do indeed have more equal rights in the law compared to the past but that does not mean that those countries are free of domestic unfairness or free of domenstic abuse. There are social and economical pressures that result in women not exercising those rights.
When Amy Winehouse died, media also pretended to be grieving, but shortly before her death they all were shaming her for sex, clothing and addictions, peaking with that clip of crowd booing her during concert.
Congrats on one of the best videos in this channel. Your work by putting complex and important issues filtered through pop culture is amazing and educational. Thank you so much for your contribution to the feminism movement!
I'm only now understanding how I and so many guys of my generation got bought in this lie of women having nothing to complain about. The 00s were so horrific in many ways, and this video proved it once more. Thank you so much.
I remember my mother watching tv, movies and rolling her eyes and expressing disgust at the general culture towards women in the 2000s. I remember her watching morning tv and the male presenter David kosh koshie* being openly lewd toward the female presenters. Watching the women try to laugh it off, brush it off only to be jeered at with 'smile, it's a joke' or 'get a sense of humour'.
Can we talk about My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which is one of the few rom-com movies where the main character goes through a "makeover" and glow up because she gains her own sense of self and learns to value herself, and starts seeing herself as beautiful as she gains independence?
My mother once screamed at me: „if you are as old as Britney, then you can dress like Britney!“, as I tried to look like the girls in the magazines for the people who then called me a slut. I really feel for her, from my heart. I bet 00‘s girls know how it all feels. It drives me to tears of joy that shes still alive and that they helped her free herself.
I thoroughly enjoy these segments! Helps me see how influential the media has on the audience on what they think is acceptable. Glad The Take is uncovering these issues and more!
i wanted to thank u guys for addressing heteronormativity in this video and some of ur others as well. i'm a more masculine-presenting lesbian and i've felt really alienated by a lot of contemporary feminist discussions that leave us out or assume we have privilege even though, as you've pointed out, we're demonized for not conforming to our society's narrow version of acceptable womanhood just as all other women are. it's just nice to see the aggressive heteronormativity and homophobia in the media at large being acknowledged and called out for the way it harms real women instead of it being brushed under the rug. so thank you :)
The problem is that people try to rise their self by tearing others down, people who do that will never truly be happy and will try to make others as misereble.
I am so excited for this series! People love to demonize feminism and ignore the fact that there are different branches of feminism. While we aren’t legally oppressed, sexism will always be a problem and it won’t ever go away. Ignorance and prejudice will always exist. The strawfeminist archetype is the worst! Megan Fox, Paris, and Brittany weren’t the only victims of the media. Jessica Simpson was labeled a “dumb blonde.” The 80’s was more progressive than the 90’s and 2000’s I am so glad that we are finally addressing how disgusting the media was and how women and other sexual assault and abuse survivors are finally allowed to have voices in the media! That’s the one good thing about social media. Thank God we are addressing those issues like sexual harassment, abuse, etc.
Yeah there were many victims of the media but Paris is as much victim as perpetrator and opportunist. Still one of the most pathetic celebrities of the 21st century.
The people asking whether these women are feminists are the ones upholding the patriarchy and should be held more accountable than the celebrities giving poor answers. That is, I doubt the interviewer is asking as a way of saying these women aren't upholding their responsibilities but more as a way to get a headline. And part of the reason for the poor answers is a financial insecurity of saying something that will hurt their careers.
I have always struggled with the identification of feminism, not because of I deny it is unnecesary, it is actually more complex. There are circles and feminists that attack women like me who wants to have modest career lives, children and marriage, I have been told by feminists that I should embrace my love for "women" to the point of question my sexuality. Maybe I have not found a good circle that respects my wishes, yet I believe that we can be different.
I’m sorry you’ve been attacked. That so uncool. Like the other commenter above^^ feminism is about agency and choice. Wearing makeup or not, choosing to stay at home to have kids, (if you have that financial ability) or being child free is all feminist af.
@@tracyroweauthor That is what my sister tells me, it is sad that some people want to turn a movement about liberty in a women vs men contest. I'll keep in mind what you are telling me.
Thanks for explicitly including trans women in the video! I’m always looking for feminist analysis of media, but sometimes have to be wary of certain “feminists” in certain spaces. It’s important to fight with each other for our collective rights rather than pit ourselves against one another. Thank you ❤️.
@@lesbiangoddess290 oh for sure, I don’t love the term though, not because it’s a slur or anything (it 1000% isn’t), but because I don’t think it’s very accurate. There are some more second wave feminist TERFS, but in my experience if you scratch at the surface of any given TERF, you find right wing & often religious fundamentalist backgrounds pretty quickly.
The term “terf” has always confused me. If your feminism includes AFAB non-binary folks and trans men, are you really a terf? What’s wrong with advocation for sex-based (XX) rights?
@@unimpressedcat2140 yes, because it doesn’t include trans women. We clearly dislike the term for extremely different reasons. Advocating for so called “XX” rights isn’t a thing, it’s a stupid made up talking point perpetrated by transphobes to try & convince cis women that trans women pose a threat. They don’t. No one dictates life based on chromosomes, but even if they did, not all AFAB people have XX chromosomes. You’re the exact kind of person I try to avoid. You’re no feminist at all. Give your head a shake.
So excited for this new series! Also, would like to know more about how that also intersects for Women of Color. Since these are examples of White women's storylines in the early 2000s. Although again I know that the zygist was not really aware of how those intersections really didn't exist.
About five years ago, or so, I thought feminism was kinda overblown and antagonistic to men, so I rolled my eyes at the concept. Then one evening at home with my family, something in our conversation led me to say "That's sexist!!" - my sister then called me a feminist and it felt strangely accurate. I finally understood what it was all about. Perhaps it was studying at the university with a lot of awesome women that sent me in the right direction. Sadly, I remain the only feminist in my family, as they all seem to believe we live in a post-feminist world and that the MeToo movement(s) are just a bunch of vengeful women angry about a 20 year old joke they didn't find funny. I am hoping to help them get rid of that mindset.
@@christopherbrown5409 Well, when you put like that: no. No, I don't think that the entire global century-spanning philosophy behind the equal rights for both sexes has ever been antagonistic towards men. Feminism is a vast movement, which varies between nations and even smaller regions within certain nations. Many still take for granted that there are certain places in the world where women still have significantly fewer rights compared to the rest of the world. It is a broad spectrum, concerned with the needs of people in their specific parts of the world. In your question, you also make the telling decision to frame feminism in its relation to men, instead of as a movement for women to seek equality. Yes, there is room for men in feminism, things that will benefit both sexes in the long run. By making room for women in the workforce, men no longer have to be honour-bond by their penises to be the sole providers for their families. But at the end of the day, equality will have more noticeable benefits for women compared to men, since these benefits are a matter of changing society for equal rights vs. changing society for less pressure to fit the expectations tied to one's sex. Feminism has for most of its existence been about women finding a place in the world besides men. Some early feminists didn't even want the right to vote, viewing the vote as a family thing, which only one member (husband/father) needed to do. Additionally, some of the earliest feminists were well-educated men, who saw benefits for society if women got more rights, which included the vote. Interestingly, there exists feminist literature all the way back from the late 1700s by men who advocated for women's rights. There are surely those who identify as feminists that hate men as a concept, but that is not equal to the overarching movement. The closest you'll find would be radical feminism, which is a hyper-critical view of patriarchy as aggressive and oppressive, while calling for a new order with women more prominently featured at the ruling level. Some radical feminists are even considered too radical for the rest of us, but for every good debate, one needs the radical sides as cornerstones so one can find a good place to stand in the middle. At this point, we might as well make the distinction between misogyny and misandry. Misogyny is the most common of these two. It is the one associated with hatred of women and all things considered feminine. Misogyny is very pervasive, as most societies have a negative subconscious view of females both for what they do and for what they don't do. People judge a women for wearing too much make-up or for not wearing any at all; for playing sports or for dancing ballet; for having children or for not having children. It is a difficult circle to break, as it is so ingrained in most cultures. Meanwhile, misandry is the lesser known of these two, even to the point that Microsoft Word underlines it as a misspelled word and wants to replace it with misogyny. Anyways, misandry is mostly associated with negative experiences like physical and sexual abuse, which then manifests into fear and mistrust. In most cases, misandry has an origin for a person, while misogyny doesn't need any significant event to develop in the mind. Curiously, misogyny can be associated with benign things, such as being delicate or the colour pink, while misandry is associated with violence and aggression. Yet, there are more misogynists in the world than there are misandrists. I recognise that it is difficult for men to be on the outside looking in at a discussion they have trouble entering, but it is a matter of knowing how to approach it. Listen to the conversation and learn the subject matter, instead of dismissing it for the bad publicity it gets. There have always been male feminists as well, so it is not an exclusive club where you need a vagina to enter.
@@Spicie95 I framed feminism in relation to men because you stated that you regressed from "feminism is antagonistic to men" to becoming a feminist. Let's not pretend there was some sexist motive, ma'am. On to your novel... 1. I never asked, implied, or stated that feminism has no room for men; I'm quite aware of the existence of male feminists (sadly). 2. Women aren't owed men "making room for them in the workplace" (whatever that's supposed to look like) because no one is owed anything in this world- especially the professional world, where competition is elemental. 3. So because misandry is less recognised by society, it's less of a problem or thing? And misandry is justifiable due to the actions of a small subset of men and prolonged trauma? And misogyny never originates from individual negative experiences with individual women (say, abusive mothers, bitchy and passive-aggressive exes, or the like)? And no one ever judged or judges men for anything they do, like, or say? Is that really what you're typing right now?
@@christopherbrown5409 Your second point is in part why some branches of feminists point toward marxism and socialism : because this mentality is meant, with the history of women being neglected in the workplace and discouraged from competing, to create a corporate world which is a hostile man dominated space. A "walk or die" mentality. Misandry does not have the same power over men's lives as misogyny in women's lives. Misogyny developping from individual experiences does not develop alone : if the individual is brought to that point, it is most likely because the society he lives in has planted the seed of it. Experiences are just its fertilizer. We do know via studies that yes, women often get more in trouble for being outspoken.
@@alicedeligny9240 which is trash, because Mrxism and socialism only benefit the lowest/most underachieving of society, which is why it's failed EVERYWHERE IT EVER WAS. So what you're saying is misandry isn't a problem at all, and no negative narratives are ever told about men?
OMG THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS. I've been wishing and wishing for years now that someone would do an analysis of our pop culture and feminism. For me it started with a curiosity with Taylor Swift. When I was a kid I never liked her because she was the whole "white virgin princess" concept. But now that I'm older I think she is a fascinating case study. There are so many different facets to understanding her influence in society over time in terms of what's ok for a woman or girl and what isn't. And then on the opposite spectrum you have Beyonce and her assertion of feminism. And for a long time the persona and values of Taylor Swift (teenage Taylor Swift, not current) vs Beyonce were pitted against each other, even if Kanye hadn't said anything. One is a white, delicate, princess and the other a strong black queen. The more and more I think about pop culture and feminism the more I see case studies everywhere. Ariana Grande, the WAP video, the intro to Best Friend by Doja Cat and Saweetie. Or the Pussycat Dolls. There is just SO MUCH to talk about and I don't know how to handle all of that analysis by myself. I've been wishing for years now that someone would make a book or something talking about all of this. Finally, someone did. THANK YOU. And thank you for making it a whole series about it not just one video. PS - I love y'alls videos. PSS - this is the first time I've felt intellectually engaged online in many many years. THANK YOU.
The fact that society normalised hating on young people and especially who don’t conform is more disturbing than bigotry because the hatred was enabled by the silence. Homomisia and Transmisia (or Transphobia and Homophobia) was rampant in the ‘90s but there was a latent version of that in the 2000s because one thought the worst had left us.
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I love these takes on feminism keep doing what your doing!
Do a take on flowers in the attic on the mother and grandmother. And how the mother betrayed her children for money and security. And to appeal to her mother and her father. And the grandmother’s very cruel strict and religious ways
male hatred, feminism is not about quality
Do post-racism; mid- '70s till present day 😑.
@@Chris-rg6nm lol what?
I vividly remember in a college history class, I think this was 2008, our proff asked: "Who considers themselves a feminist?" Not a single of us raised our hands. Then she asked if we believed certain things: If men and women are created equal, deserve equal pay, etc etc... This time everyone raised their hands. Amazing how scared we were to be labeled "feminist" even though the basics of the movement were so obvious. What a weird era.
Because believing men and women are equal is the default belief, as it should be.
@@MechaJutaro There are different types of inequality (ethnicity, class, gender etc.), all of which require different approaches, solutions and therefore labels. Another reason to differentiate is to specifically acknowledge that one group is marginalized (and the other is not). By using vague terms as 'equality before the law' or 'ALM' you are downplaying (or outright not even recognizing) the oppression that these groups face. And by not recognizing, retention of the status quo is inevitable.
Feminism comes with a lot of ideological baggage including assumptions about the history of the world (the patriarchy and how its described) and assumptions about the current state of it.
It's not the same to think that men and women should be equal than to be a feminist. That's a very false equivalency.
Akin to saying that everyone who thinks we should have the same rights is a communist or that everyone who believes in progress is a nazi.
It’s much how people will agree in precepts like “managers and workers don’t always have the same interests” and “a company only hires someone if it makes them more money than they have to pay in wages”; but a majority will shy away if they have any leftist label suggested to them.
I agree that people were scared of the word feminist and still are, but there's a difference between saying "men and women should be equal" and wanting to destroy the patriarchy (wich is why feminism is needed for). Women don't want to be men, they don't want the rights men have (doing SA without going to prison, sexualizing women/the other gender, being strong by not crying...), they want to be treated with the same respect
Back in the '90's and 00's day we didn't have the phrase "Cool girl" yet. But the whole "feminism is over" reminds me of that. It was what many women were indicating when they said it. And it was, of course, mainly directed at heterosexual men. Basically telling them: "Don't worry, I'm not a feminist. I'm a fun, cool girl who doesn't complain, who will laugh at your misogynistic jokes and who doesn't nag about problems you don't experience."
I never laughed at sexist jokes unless I found them funny at the time. Rather I would give the person telling them dirty looks.
If you haven’t seen The Take’s video on the Cool Girl archetype in film, go watch it because it is VERY good. It’s actually the first The Take video I watched and it turned me on to the channel!
@@loradailey5746 Agreed! And that whole trope was such an eye-opener for me. Growing up in the '80's and '90's we didn't have words and expressions for certain things. We knew something didn't sit right, but couldn't really put our finger on it. Tropes like cool girl, gaslighting, not like other girls and pick-me's are so spot on and I'm happy we're getting these expressions and The Take helps to make them mainstream.
Why SHOULD you nag about problems others don't experience?
@@christopherbrown5409 Because the first step to solving a problem is that the majority of the populace acknowledges there is a problem in the first place.
If most people (mostly men, but some women too) simply ignore sexism, we will never be able to abolish it.
Annie Lennox once said: “the word feminism is like a tree with many branches belonging to the same fundamental roots. Human rights..”
Annie Lennox also said “A lot of music you might listen to is pretty vapid, it doesn't always deal with our deeper issues. These are the things I'm interested in now, particularly at my age.”
This is coming from a woman who made lots of money from the lyrics “sweet dreams are made of this” repeated over and over again.
@@LukeHarwood2913 that’s one of her songs
The majority have a deeper meaning and lyrics
Plus the music and arrangement clearly has complexity and originality to it compared to the shit she is referring to (probably Taylor swift or smthn)
@@LukeHarwood2913 besides what has her music got to do with her quote. It’s a good definition of feminism that highlights why it’s important
@@A-G-A-G I love Annie Lennox’s and Eurythmics music, but it doesn’t stop that statement being pretentious and hypocritical.
@@LukeHarwood2913 ok but what has I got to do with her statement on feminism
One small disagreement: I loved Mulan because there was no explicit „happily ever after“ with a love interest. Just a possibility for it (I ignore Mulan 2). Her happy ending was to show her worth, safe her country and return to her loving family without need to fit in and find a husband anymore. And of course friends who came to the conclusion that her gender was not that important.
I mean, if my memory is correct, Shang did proposed to her...
@@Nat-ls1uo nope not in the first movie
@@Nat-ls1uo Yeah, he just goes to see her at home. "Would you like to stay for dinner!" (and then the grandmother's "would you like to stay forever?" 😂)
Girl had to risk her life in a war, become a master in battle, surpass all the other soldiers, save a political figure's life AND become a hero in her country, in order to protect a patriarchal father, JUST so she can experience some level of appreciation... but still, no equality.
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I have so many problems with Mulan.
@@FeministCatwoman Yeah, understand your point. But I see it as a story of getting unstuck from strict gender rules and finding a way to be herself. Of course she tries to protect her patriachal father but he protects her by letting her go and is also troubles by society`s expectations and the fear of "dishonour". With this backround he is very unconventional by letting her be herself even before she decides to go to war. She IS appreciated before but the whole family is stuck in expectations she can not match. It is unusual that the father is not totally mad about her failures in being a "proper girl" and "bring honour". Of course she comes back into the old family structure but there is no hint how she would lead her life afterwards. She is a warrior with high rank, honoured without husband, and surely has to figure out how she wants to live after the war.
How did women allow ourselves to be gaslit into saying we're not feminist or angry over the treatment of women? Like, how did we fall for that? Shouldn't we have stopped to ask ourselves why men conflate being held accountable for toxicity, with misandry?
Because some women weren't allowed to have the same opportunities as their male counterparts and were raised with strictly enforced gender roles and education for women was frowned upon.
That’s how gaslighting works, we presented what we had to in order to not be targeted and ostracized. We have to forgive our survivalist behaviors to learn from it
@@bibianaguadalupeislasherre9880 In the 2000s? Maybe there was a reason for that in the 70s or 80s, but if it's a post-feminist society, then why should women be gaslit about feminism at all? If there was such a thing as post-feminist, no way would women feel under pressure to play the man-pandering card. Certain things just speak for themselves. That's my point.
It's not just women. It happens to POC and poor sections of society too. People in power have a knack to gaslight and brainwash the less privileged to think that their worst enemies are themselves.
Endless concerted social pressure.
I need something to cheer me up now. The 00’s were my formative years - this video explains why so many women my age are so full of self doubt, self loathing and their own internalized misogyny.
Women of many ages feel that way. That's how some want it. But we must keep moving forward.
@@jjohnsengraciesmom absolutely!! 💕
Yeah that's the reason 🤣
Love does lead to more happiness then work, so whoever you love focus on that. Self loathing and doubt are harder when you love someone and they love you.
@@chrisandkatiebrooke3498 don't go into psychology or self help. You clearly have no idea how to relate to people or give advice.
All those headlines asking if feminism was dead are so revealing of that era. Society in the 2000s tried to wish feminism into no longer being real, valid and relevant. As someone who turned 15 in 2000, I was extremely confused about what was going on. I grew up to believe that I could be loved AND be smart AND be taken seriously, but pop culture, the media and even fashion were sending a completely opposite message. Careers were for women who had decided to be special instead of being happy, but eventually they would come to their senses and turn into "regular, good women".
I do believe that stigmatizing traditional feminine qualities and appearance has done a lot of harm, and that internalized misogyny is a real issue. I also believe that a lot of those so-called gains were actually weaponized and used against women to further degrade and exploit them. I have noticed recently how women are accepted in the workplace as long as they stay in their lane, that is doing jobs focused on emotional work, caring, and nurturing (think nurse, teacher, counsellor), but how much push back they face when they are in leadership and decision-making roles. No matter what you think of the excess of feminism, women are still underpaid, exploited, abused and brutalized for being women. At best, claiming that you are not a feminist maintains the status quo. At worst, it is making the situation regress - looking over at you Texas.
This is so accurate
Right? I find these types of falsely "pro-woman" shows so off putting. They claim to bring the 'realness' of what it means to live as a 'strong, independent woman' - except they depict these women embarking on patronizing, somewhat humiliating and childish little storylines. At the end of the day, it convinces viewers that being "like that" (aka an independent woman) is an awkward, often humiliating and deluded experience. The shows themselves don't take women seriously. They do nothing to promote independence or feminism because they play off the experience of being a woman as being an awkward, bumbling, childlish experience, turning it into a mockery rather than accomplishment.
and even when women have technical jobs identical to those of their male coworkers, they’re still expected to shoulder almost all the emotional labor of their workplace less they be seen as cold/b*tchy and denied opportunities for advancement that even the most anti-social jerks are often given, because (studies have clearly shown) that women’s job performance is perceived only half based on their ACTUAL performance and half based on how consistently nice/friendly and willing to pick up the emotional or ‘feminine’ labor they are.. if they don’t do that, their ACTUAL performance is perceived to be worse 😓😓😓
Hear hear!
Well written!
"But we gave then the permission to vote! what else do they want? being treated as equal human beings?"
I’d settle for “being treated as human beings”
@@scorpionbraid And not something that was refused to them for centuries
Yeah, it's dumb on many levels. "You can vote now, but don't actually change anything".
@@scorpionbraid it most definitely was given, lmao. capitalists just wanted more workers. same with POC. no one gives a shit about y'alls rights
@@scorpionbraid right? Its as if the upper class men saying t "we gave these lower class men the right to vote! What more do they want!"
"I'm not a feminist I'm a humanist" to me sounds like "I'm not tall, I'm Australian". U can be both those things honey
Many feminists are anti-male, that's why many people don't feel comfortable calling themselves feminist.
@@hamidkarim4811 Most feminists are anti-toxic masculinity. As they should be.
If you equate toxic masculinity with maleness, then that's YOUR problem. Not feminism's.
@@hamidkarim4811 You're so wrong!
People should be neither feminist nor humanist.
@@toukakirishima5582 that's because feminism is evil
Mulan doesn’t fit this discourse to me. Her achievement comes with saving her country and learning her family loves her regardless. She self actualizes on her own.
I agree with this. Shang showing up on her door step at the end of the movie has nothing to do with this. Earning his affection as well as his respect as a soldier as a woman was just a nice bonus. Mulan is not actualized by getting the guy in the end.
As they say: "Post-feminism can only exist in a post-patriarchy" - and this society is far from being a post-patriarchy.
True. There's no need for post-patriarchy, when the patriarchy was never more than a vague, amorphous delusion cooked up in the consciousness raising groups of the 70s
@@MechaJutaro I guess you don’t open many books very often.
Most western Judeo-Christian societies are patriarchal, unless you’re willing to tell me that leadership isn’t traditionally established in a patrilineal fashion, or that women aren’t exchanged as property from father to husband when married, or that daughters somehow inherit property at the same rate as sons. It’s funny you mentioned the 70s, because women couldn’t open their own bank accounts in America until that decade. Hell it was only ten years prior that could be allowed to attend Ivy League institutions and legally apply to law school.
If you disagree I’d love to hear all about those great matrilineal success stories and all those centuries of assumed female leadership and superiority.
of course there is nothing wrong with a patriarchal society
@@castle3863 there is. There should be no societal structure or privileges on the basis of sex.
@@Misstressofdons so are you then opposed to a matriarchal society?
you should add Amy Winehouse to this list; in the "AMY" documentary there is a scene of a paparazzi guy literally hitting her in the head with his camera and no one at all helps her, instead taking more pictures
That happens to men and women. Paparazzi are scum
@@TheBoxingCannabyte The paparazzi is a small piece of a far bigger problem. It's the tabloids that pay top dollar for for photographs of controversy and exploitation. Why do tabloids pay top dollar to paparazzi? Because there is a huge market for controversy and exploitation. Who are the people who spend money in buying these tabloid magazines? The majority buying these is women. If women stopped buying into tabloid schadenfreude, the paparazzi would die off due to lack of demand, and start taking photographs for National Geographic. Products never survive if there is no demand for it.
I've always found it bizzare that SATC was heralded as some feminist game changer when most of the conversation and aspiration revolves around men. I doubt a single episode would pass the bechdel test
It's a show about women portrayed by men. No further words.
@The Progressive Brit that doesn't mean it reflects the essence of women. I agree that it was the only show that portrayed single women who owned their sexuality and money in the 90's, otherwise women lacked sensitivity or depth. It was written based on the idea of men about how a woman should be and it shows.
@@chipacita90 Well, it was written by GAY men: Michael Patrick King and Darren Starr.
Tbh I found them pathetical.
@@Mogwai-fy7ut that doesnt really make a difference
Honestly I was born in the 2000s and I hated those types of movies as a child, they always showed woman that were rich, strong, determined and feminine yet always spend the whole time pinning an unattractive zero chemistry guy, I was convinced that woman must marry man even if they aren't happy about it
Wow.that sounds shallow. Ugly guys deserve love too.
@@lisah8438 that is cool but I am a lesbian ,this comment is posted from a lesbian perspective, and not matter what guys do I just can't find them attractive
@@lisah8438 True, but why are women forced to lower their standards when it comes to dating men? Is it because if they don’t lower them, they get branded as a “shallow bitch”?
Men aren’t told to lower their standards and therefore tolerate ugly women.
That’s why you tend to see more films about ugly men hooking up with gorgeous women than the inverse.
@@beethovensfidelio
My dad told me that I shouldn’t be too picky or else I’ll be alone and childless. It always made me worry that if I didn’t hurry I’d be alone. My dad is a boomer of course so I see why he tried to train me that way. I’m okay with waiting, I find friendship is the best way to find love.
Now men are shamed for having prefrences tbh
Gonna have to hard disagree on Miss Congeniality again. Miss Congeniality is basically a "Not Like Other Girls" metamorphosis. Gracie was was woman who held disdain for women and femininity, not necessarily because she opposed it, but because she (like the rest of us) saw how men/society held women and their interests in contempt. But she participates in the disdain and still gets shat on by male society for completely rejecting womanhood. Only when she enters this hyperfeminine space and sees that it's not the worst thing in the world does she let those things go and embraces some aspects of femininity. To say the the movie suggest addressing issues of institutional sexism is through femininity is a really wild take on the movie. In reality the movie never presented Gracie with a solution to sexism in her workplace. It was still very much there at the end of the movie. I am not sure where yall saw some sort of change. The movie wasn't about Gracie gaining respect at her job or advancing her career. It was about personal growth that neither centered on a man or her career.
But at the end of the movie, she does "get the man" who belittled her before she started presenting in a more traditionally feminine way. The movie does some wonderful things in terms of teaching her to appreciate other women and support them and stop shaming herself for being a woman, but it doesn't necessarily go far enough that she's able to recognize that she shouldn't date a sexist guy, especially when you think about how the movie is framed from the very beginning with her having a crush on a little boy and being rejected, as if her primary motivation all along was just to be in a romantic relationship.
@@lindsaymorrison7519 Yes. That was a weak point for sure. But the transformation wasn't about him. The "romance" was a b-plot, and was secondary to Gracie's character arc. I mean we can literally take that out of the movie and would have little consequences to the story structure.
there's a second part that apologises for making her feminine, tho. they basically made some commentary on their previous part and why it was wrong of them to do it
however, i feel like the hate towards masculine women is tied more to homophobia than sexism, especially given the "that's so gay" phrase used in a negative way
Pick mes are the types that HATE modern women for not being feminine enough lol.
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 i do not give a fuck about who does what. but if people are gonna degrade specific kinds of women because they think they're not progressive or "traditional" enough, i will have an issue. criticizing negative aspects of "buzzfeed" feminism isn't misogyny at all. same as criticizing a country's government doesn't make you xenophobic or bigoted. i'm not gonna pretend like third wave feminism lacks issues. just because it's a progressive movement doesn't mean it can't have some idiots misrepresenting it or some freaks with an inferiority complex pushing it to dumb extremes.
and i have a mind of my own and don't cater to anybody but myself, but nice try
This was a great take on the Post Feminism era in the 2000’s as someone who was overweight, a child, and a teen in the 2000’s I had a lot of internalized mysogyny because I wasn’t the hyper feminine women (although I’m more feminine than I was ever now at 30 I’m still not at the hyper feminine stage yet) Even in Junior College I was in the Feminist club and I struggled with liking feminine things versus sticking to the Feminist traits. I still identify as a Feminist but I don’t believe in hating women because they express unfeminine or feminine traits.
Thank you for doing this Take I’m excited to see more of these!!!!!
Owww similar experience… I remember The pressure for me to thin and feminine
I used to get so much backlash then because I would point out that recreational lesbianism (i.e. "make out with your friend to get guys' attention, it's hot!"), girls/women acting stupid as "a character," and going to strip clubs was actually DISEMPOWERING. Why is it "feminist" to treat women like men do, and objectify us and our sexuality the same ways? You weren't a feminist if you said you were a feminist and were for equal rights, that was "controversial" and "off-putting." But boy howdy, if you wore an "ironic" Playboy t-shirt and jammed dollar bills into strippers' g-strings, you were celebrated as a "strong, powerful woman." Go figure.
The Spice Girls and the Sugarbabes were going to strip clubs and practising pole dancing according to Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy and Living Dolls by Natasha Walters because women were undeer pressure to accept raunch culture.
I’mma need y’all to cut the s3x negative bs immediately and shove that back to 2nd wave feminism where it belongs. We’re in the 3rd wave now thanks.
@@Caterfree10 you're actually making my point. There is nothing "sex positive" about two women who are not gay/bi making out in order to get guys' approval...and being told that if you don't want to make out with another woman, you aren't "sex positive." Being told that you need to go with the guys to a strip club and if you don't, you're a prude is not "sex positive." Being told you need to frame your sexuality only in ways that are prefered by men/the patriarchy is not "sex positive." Some people are comfortable experimenting or being objectified, but if we don't want to be, that does not mean that we are not "sex positive."
@@DS-uh6ss Exactly. The same behavior can be either empowering OR regressive depending upon whose needs are served.
@@Caterfree10 she said it wasn't feminist, she didn't say we should forbid these women to practice or "a woman showing her sexuality is bad and she doesn't deserve respect". So what is wrong with pointing out the impact of this industry?
I think with legally blonde, the “feminist” character is more to illustrate the type of feminist who claims to be pro woman but frequently shames other woman and their choices and dislikes women who choose to be traditionally more feminine
I feel like this point would've been stronger had there been another self-proclaimed feminist in the movie who was not treated like a joke.
I hate to say this, (I mean, I really hate it) but this is not just a product of the 00s. This has been ongoing for centuries. Women have been subjugated for so long, it's only in the last 100 years or so that we've made any real strides towards any kind of equality (which I know seems a long time, but is relatively recent). Roe is only 48 years old, women have only had the vote for about 100 years. Not until 1993 was marital rape made a crime in all 50 states. Still, in the 1990s, most states continued to differentiate between the way marital rape and non-marital rape was viewed and treated. Women in North Carolina STILL need a husband's permission to buy property. I could go on and on. The feminist fight is ever-growing and ever-changing, and has serious enemies in those invested in keeping women from finding our power. The fact that we are still fighting the legality of Roe, that we still haven't had a woman president or that Kamala being VP is groundbreaking speaks to both how far we've come and how far we still have to go.
"women in North Carolina still need their husband's permission to buy property" I'm sorry what?? I'm not from the US btw, so I don't know as much about specific states.
Sadly I agree with you. 100 years really isn't that long at all, I mean in the UK (where I'm from) it hasn't even been a full 100 years since women got the vote on equal terms to men (1928). In Switzerland, some women didn't get it until the early 90s (forgot the exact year).
One thing I think that will take very long to rectify is the health/medical research gap between men and women. In the US, women have only been included in clinical trials since 1993. (I suggest the yt video "Is medicine sexist?" by Jessica Kellgren-Fozard if anyone wants to learn more about that)
Edited to add more stuff
THANK YOU! women have been subjugated for more than 3 millenia. 100 years of "equality" (which is still not a thing yet) is nothing. We have a very loooong way to go
@@aceatlasska4343 a good friend wanted to buy a house in NC about 10 years ago. She was separated from her husband but not divorced. She had to divorce him in order to buy the house without his his signed "permission" and he would have been considered co-owner even though he contributed nothing to the purchase.
@@aceatlasska4343 thank you for pointing out the women and medicine issue. I didn't think to add that.
@@tracyroweauthor Exactly.
By that logic why are men expected to give their houses to vvo main after divorce, alimony 50% of his property .... since those vvo main didn't contribute anything to that purchase/property.
vvo main are capable of earning money and do infact earn money.
then why do we consider them like child who aren't capable of providing themselves.... forget about paying for their *own child* . (which should be 50-50 since vvo main is capable of earning too)
also why do vvo main expect men to foot majority bills when they're earning money too?
would vvo main marry man who expects you to do 50-50 chores while you're providing all his bills/ majority bills?
(most working vvo main expect 50-50 housework but don't want 50-50 when paying bills, rent,car, travel and buying property)
Despite growing up into my teens in the 2000's, I have no Nostalgia for that decade (I much prefer the 90's) For me that decade was toxic for everyone. As a minority who was bullied a lot in high school, I can't help but feel that Sexist and Racist jokes where everywhere and trying to be as shocking as possible, leading me to believe it might had been a product of the War on Terror and racist being used as a excuse to be "Patriotic" and mock other people.
With that, yeah Sexist jokes were abundant in the 2000's and it was a lot like the Big Bang Theory, "Hey look at us make sexist jokes but is funny because we are pointing how funny it is we are Sexist!". Hell this was also the Paparazzi Decade where they made a whole circus when Britney had her breakdown and people where mocking her in the tabloids, as oppose to taking her mental health seriously.
Sure people will look fondly at the 2000's, but for me even the media it produce had hints of the mean spiritedness of that decade (Like Shrek using a old fairy tale as toilet paper).
Same! I was born in 1990 and the 2000s pop culture and overall culture were not enjoyable for me.
Thanks for sharing.
@@mmps18 The 2000's for was not enjoyable either as a young woman growing up".
I’m kind of glad now that I missed most of this since I was born in 2006.
Sorry that happened you, I agree with all the points you said.
I do think the same of you of that era... The 00s were thrash
I'm always surprised by the fact that the little mermaid's hair never seems to be wet despite her living in the ocean.
Maybe she's part duck?
Maybe it's hydrophobic as an adaptation for aquatic life...
No its probably due to sexism duhhh
Well, it does float and undulate when she's underwater.
when youre inside water hair looks dry actually, until u get out of it
I interpreted the feminist character in Legally Blonde to be more of a commentary on feminists who demonize hyperfeminine women. Which, in my experience, is unfortunately fairly common in non-intersectional circles.
Same here ...
Everyone seems to be lacking intersectionality these days... I feel like it was "catching on" as a buzz word, but has since lost its momentum
I half agree as she assumes that Elle is a mean girl based on her appearance. But is wrong. But they also do poke fun at her a bit. Like at the house party and changing the name semester when there are other issues that are arguing more pressing ie rape and sexual assault on campuses. I get it’s a comedy by they could have showed her in a better light.
Not gonna lie, that always bothered me. I'm a more androgynous woman, but the way more feminine women were treated as inane or shallow rubbed me up the wrong way. I love the company of women, in all sorts of ways, and with all kinds of women.
Exactly. Looking down on hyperfeminine women in favor of more masculine qualities isn't feminism, it's just a different form of misogyny because femininity and feminine traits are still inferior to masculinity.
I think this is the reason why anti-sjw cringe really caught on on the internet. The thought that our world is already perfect, that any thought that there's no social problems left to be addressed and anyone who said otherwise is crazy/whiny is the reason why so many people jumped on the anti-sjw gamergate train
And my God was it awful
Does that mean you're an SJW?
The hate train for SJWs began as a way to make fun of people with the empathy to want social change, but too incompetent to address them. But, then SJW was conflated to mean anyone who fights for social change. If you gender/color swap a character because you want more female/ethnic representation, even when the gender/ethnicity of that character is not a core component of that character, you may face backlash.
@@deepseadarew6012 instead of race and/or gender swapping, why not actually create your OWN characters like intelligent people do?
Did you even LISTEN to the Gamergaters? Do you even know what it's ABOUT???
I think it’s like a pendulum, we swung so much to the other side (hating femeninity) because they were imposed on us for the longest time. Now that things keep balancing out, I’m just glad feminism has evolved so much that we now have intersectionality and a diversity of opinions, not just from skinny, cis, able bodied, straight women.
Tbh feminism never centered around skinny cis able bodied straight women BUT that being said, a lot of the women who were majorly contributing to the feminist movement were not getting the credit they deserved. Especially in the 2000’s there was a narrow “type” of women who was able to benefit from feminism (and even then she was only able to benefit to an extent) and other stories were thrown under the bus. I’m glad that we’re out here trying to give credit and platforms to people of diverse backgrounds. I’m only adding this to say that we owe our current human rights to a wide variety of women and backgrounds, even if these women don’t always get the credit they are owed.
Big swings before finer adjustments
Intersectionality is not new. The contradictions and gaps in the kind of feminism examined here have long been pointed out- like as far back as the 1960s women's movement itself. But those voices were not given platforms. It's great ideas like intersectionality are getting more platform now- but just remember they aren't the evolution of feminism- they were a critique that grew alongside it.
diversidad funcional, no discapacidad!
@@wildcatste interesting!
While I do believe men and women can be fulfilled by other things other than a partner: a career, family binds, friends, etc., I do not like how it always had to be one or the other: work or a partner.
They go together. Most of us want to have a career but not be married to it as well as find someone who shares our values and beliefs and to come home to every night. People should not be shamed for wanting or finding love.
I know everyone does not share this viewpoint, but it seems to be feminist now and days a partner should not be in the picture.
This is what I liked in sex and the city 2 (not the whole movie), but what Miranda did. She left a job that did not benefit her or her family. In the end, she found a firm that was a healthy balance for her, but still allowed her to spend time with her family.
In my view, the problem here is that some feminists stopped at the second wave and have been too eager to absorb male-centric goals and priorities into feminist liberation. The goal should be for men and others to also adopt some traditionally "feminine" priorities. True gender liberation, which includes breaking down the binary to begin with.
@@nathy0308 can’t argue with that.
I think you would love the books of bell hooks (if you haven’t read them already). My favorites are
All About Love
Communion: the female search for love
The Will To Change: men, masculinity, and love
She was writing these in the early 00s as a kind of feminist critique of the feminism of the time. Her work is very empathetic and eye opening. She specifically didn’t like how the feminists of the era were more focused on gaining economic power/equality in the markets and not equality in domestic life, they didn’t demand that men and women deserve healthy love lives with a healthy work life that enhances their ability to create relationships. The feminism of the early 00s wasn’t at all relationship oriented, which I feel is what feminists today are realizing, we’ve been duped into believing economic power would solve all our problems and not to worry about love.
I feel dumb for having praised a company’s “first female ceo” in the past, cause it doesn’t matter if the people under her don’t get maternity/paternity leave or have an exploitive work environment that they take home and then stress out their family/love life with
@@BunsBooks these look interesting. I will add them to my list.
I also like your point.
The reason it has to be one or the other is that women know they will have to take on a disproportionate amount of childcare snd other reproductive labour if they go the partner route which wont leave them the time and the energy to pursue their career. Why do men never have to pick one? Coz they know thay the woman will do all the legwork.
I do feel sad that celebrities don’t acknowledge themselves as feminists but I suspect the backlash is quite serious. Although we live in a very disquieting time so we cannot even fear the idea of fear itself.
@@Chris-rg6nm In the dimension you inhabit, perhaps. Don’t take it personally and I’m not discounting the strides taken in the right direction, but there’s a long way to go to achieve equality and equity en masse.
@@Chris-rg6nm Equality AND Equity. No longer being content with equality.
especially since humanist doesnt mean what they think it means.. the word they're looking for is feminist. im always disappointed when i hear someone say theyre not a feminist. maybe the gagas and streeps of the world can afford to distance themselves from this word, but marginalising it hurts the majority of us who face the very real consequences of institutionalised misogyny
@@morri254 PREACH! 👏🏽
I guess those were old recordinds: nowadays it’s uncommon and sounds just downright stupid.
Great video!
Suggestion: perhaps do a video about popular culture's reluctance, and sometimes refusal, to depict childfree women as sympathetic characters? We're still told in a hundred different ways that if we don't want children, we're horrible people who are Doing Womanhood Wrong.
Yes! Or that we're not truly happy with our choice to go childfree.
My "favourite" nonsense I heard was "A right man will change your opinion. " As if I would suffer a spontaneous lobotomy and suddenly desire to have children. No matter how kind or emapthic I am to people, simply not having kids equals to me being a selfish brat.
that must make it really hard for the women who _cannot_ have children.
The way I see it, the biggest problem with feminism is how incredibly quickly people will jump to their feet to combat it.
The biggest problem with feminism is how quickly feminists come to blindly defend it any time feminists do anything wrong.
@@shrisiva4016 care to elaborate?
The 00's felt like the era of Shock Culture, it was peppered in every stand-up comedian and tv show that it became White Noise to the masses. Naturally this aged like milk in the following decade.
The era of the jerkasses
14:00 Harvey trying to pull off the "I'm too ill to assault anyone" walk.
So true! 😂 😂
As a feminist, working is not about finding happiness, it's about being financially independent. Any working woman is much happier than a woman stuck in a bad relationship she can't leave because of financial reasons. It's not about hating men. It's simply about being smart and in control of your own life. I'd love to stay at home and cook and clean all day if I could do so without having to find a man to support me.
Read about "Wages for Housework." It's very interesting.
Most single working mothers are not financially independent. just because you have a job, that doesn't mean you are financially independent. Most married working mothers are not financially independent either since they would fall into the same poverty trap as those single mothers if they were to divorce. This is why women, especially those with good jobs, will put up with a man-child until their children are teens are into adulthood before asking for a divorce. If you cannot maintain your married lifestyle without your spouse, you are not financially independent. If you are a single working mother who has to work overtime, more than one job, live in a bad neighborhood, only have a tiny savings or do any sort of penny pinching or asking for assistance, then you are not financially independent either. We have to get away from this idea, because this false idea of working women having financial independence is one of the things holding us back from getting things like maternal and paternal leave, universal healthcare, free childcare for all, etc. After all, why would anyone need any of that if all women had to do was get off their asses and go to work, right? I don't see the single mother struggling to make ends meet or the married working mother holding up her entire family as being any more financially independent or feminist than my SAHM self when they have to struggle to raise children that the fathers should also be contributing an equal amount of time and money towards.
the 00s most definitely were
Post feminism in the 2000s aggravated me to no end. Women declaring themselves as not being a feminist but a humanist when there were SO MANY issues faced by women even in first world countries. The internalized misogyny drove me crazy! And women ACTUALLY falling for the bullshit men convinced them of that women had everything. Ugh! I felt like the only feminist in a sea of rampant misogyny in my 20s during the 2000s and it sucked and I’m a white woman in a first class country. I knew it was WAY worse for bipoc, trans women and women in other countries in the world and no one was talking about it! I can’t even imagine how horrible it was for them at this time and it’s still horrible and they’re expected to not get mad but explain in a calm manner why something someone did was wrong? I’d don’t blame them at all for feeling enraged. Tbh I don’t really feel I have any right to talk about it because I don’t know just how awful it is
This such an important take. One thing I've issue that I still have with the progressive feminism of today is that the terms of liberation are in a capitalist context. You either are a woman chained to the patriarchy with not much economic output (which is quite false, there is an economic value on "traditional" domestic work) or your independent and driven only in a career or financial context. I understand that it is the reality of the society we live in but I feel like we should look beyond that. My independence shouldn't solely be judged by whether im financially or labor-wise successful
Isn't Legally Blonde and Miss Congeniality more about different types of women becoming friends despite their differences? As both Gracie and the woman from Legally Blonde judge hyper feminine women until they get to know them. Also, it can be difficult to apply modern thinking to things that were created in a specific time
I agree - I think they're both (partly) about women embracing 'different types of femininity' as valid and not to be scared/jealous of. Teaching women not to be afraid of your femininity (or of others) in order to be taken seriously too. For the 2000s this was a big deal.
They also got the little mermaid wrong as well. I also highly recommend you go check out Lindsay Ellis' video on The Little Mermaid.
I thought they were about the dumb blinde is valid and the ugly strong female can be beautiful and kind if she do makeup and grow some boobs, respectively.
@@nakifairy Yet women who aren't feminine get shat on far more
@@kittykittybangbang9367 Lindsay Ellis is the definition of a pick me lol
As someone who “came of age” into adulthood in the 00s, THANK YOU FOR ACKNOWLEDGING THIS.
This is the ongoing struggle with any discourse about feminism, it almost always comes down to how well-off white women are doing, and not the rest of us. I am less concerned with how upwardly-mobile women are doing than how the poorest women are doing. Even as a precarious middle-class black woman, I know that the issues really go beyond me. There is little to no mention in this video essay of how poor women in this country have faired. It would have meant talking less about how Bill Clinton treated Monica Lewinsky and more about how Clinton gutted welfare leaving millions of poor women and single mothers in deeper poverty.
We don't talk enough about poverty because in this country we associate being poor with a screw up or a loser.
Instead, this could have been an opportunity to mention that the decline of women's wages correlated to decline of working class wages and increased decimation of labor unions in the 1970s and 1980s. All women who work are affected by late stage capitalism, and without a strong militant labor workforce we will not see those gains again.
Lets not forget that women on tv and film in the 90s and 00s were 99% written by men projecting their sexual ideals and using the female character as their mouth piece to vent their frustrations with feminism and a set example of how they think a women should act and the male love interest is always the male writer's stand in
"If misogyny's the water everyone is swimming in, and the party line is that it's been eradicated, how do you even summon the vocabulary or get anyone to listen when you try to voice what's happening to you?"
It was just too comforting to keep avoiding reality.
I remember in 2012 hearing Rush Limbaugh and his ilk throwing around the term “ femin@zi “ and that’s when I realized post feminism had failed so many women.
We could also talk about the unrealistic beauty standards, fat phobia, and toxic diet culture of that time too
the only unrealistic to me, is Plastic surgery
Seriously?! It was heaven compared today. Unrealistic beauty standards and toxic diet culture is WAY worse since social media.
Diet culture isn't toxic and obesity is unhealthy.
That exists today as well..... Check out instagram
I’m so glad this era has ended, I was born in the 90s and didn’t question beauty standards, lack of representation and misogynistic treatment of celebrities. I grew up being a pick me girl (I cringe as I recall some situations) saying things like “I only listen to male vocals, Women just make too girly music” 😭 and not calling myself a feminist because “I like men”. But now I see a huge change and I'm glad that we became more self aware and are having this conversation. Meanwhile our basic human right are taken away from us (e.g. Texas, I'm from Poland and it happened to us as well).
Omg I was born in the 90s too and as a teenager in the 2000s I said stuff like "I'm only friends with boys, girls are just so exhausting." and things like that.. so cringey. But I didn't know better and didn't actually dislike girls... I just said that stuff because it's what the "comfortable" (to boys) girls would say. I wish I could tell my younger self to not be so self-hating...
It's sad because even when girls say that, it reinforces to boys (and other girls) that girls are catty and don't get along with each other, and then there is no respect for them. I grew up in a house fullllll of girls (eight girls, one boy!) and they not only got along with each other but had such close knit friendships with the girls their age at school/work/church, there was almost no drama (a few people who tried to start stuff, but it wasn't just my sisters, my dad had problems with some of his friends too, bc that's humanity), and I never saw any hostility towards new girls, pretty girls, popular girls, etc, I only ever saw them welcome people (girls _and_ boys) with open arms. I didn't realize there was such animosity towards girls being nice to each other until I started spending more time online and realized there is a lot of hatred and discouragement of girls having healthy, symbiotic, mature relationships with each other. There will always be immature people who tear others down, but I've seen that in young _and_ old people, in men _and_ women, and I don't see how anyone could see it as a problem only one sex deals with.
@@gdaym8y What about "Twilight" and it's message towards girls and young women? I'm never interested in that garbage at all because of the toxic relationships being romanticized and Bella never having any interesting character. I like to draw and write and I want my female characters to be diverse in personality and background not a plank of wood like Bella and the women in Michael Bay films
@@gdaym8y Good for you and everyone!
@@maryumgardner5958 I think the hatred towards Twilight is part of the insiduous anti-feminism that insists any properties marketed towards young women are inherently dumb and unworthy. It's not perfect, but the hatred towards it is about hating teenage girls and their interests, not about Twilight.
I think this was just an answer to women's disappointment with promises of feminism and independance. Because they never became truly equal, they just had more roles and expectations put on them. Now instead of being a mother, a housekeeper and a wife, they had to be ALL THAT and a successful, ambitious capitalist worker. And while men were forgiven for putting their families and relationships on the backburner in favour of their jib and success, women were judged for it, but also judged if they chose a more traditional approach. Toxic workplace and capitalism and obsession with careers and money benefit no one, neither men nor women. Everbody should work to live, not live to work
I was thinking the same thing towards the beginning of the video talking about the 90s TV shows. They aren't happy with careers because humans aren't their jobs. This is a problem women AND men face. We are much more than paychecks, reputations, and job titles.
I am ashamed to say that during this period, I too distanced myself from feminism. As a kid in the 90s who attended Catholic school I thought of myself as a fierce feminist but by the time I graduated high school and started college that term to me meant hating men. Looking back I only adopted this belief bc of the media. Now that I am older and have a better understanding of the world, I am a proud feminist. This also illustrates to me just how effective the media is in shaping people's view points, mine included. It's important that we always question what we believe. Do we really feel this way or are we being influenced by the medi.
I'm glad you did a 360 on it
Same thing happened during the mid-to-late 2010s, where the term feminist became synonymous with hating men.
Feminism is an endless evolution that needs to keep evolving.
Feminism is sexist
@@Halo4beatsB02 says a men
@@DanielMartinez-xz8nj well it is
@@Halo4beatsB02 again a men feel sexism 😒
I agree
I found laci green and other feminists at an early age. I remember being in my 6th grade class, were I said something about feminism, and my female teacher said
“oh Hailey of course, *YOURE* a feminist.”
It hit me that people dislike me more if they know my values. I will be seen as difficult, and uncool, and unable to have fun. It’s rough learning the world actually hates women.
Because women in the 2000s were embracing their sexuality as well as hyper femininity / femininity and it being praised by some and demonized by most as well as seeing theses women being successful caused uproars of hate. Can you do a video about my why black women aren’t allowed to embrace their femininity?
there not lol get off social media there ain't a demographic that can express themselves more then the black female what are you talking about
@@thewildcardperson you kinda missed the point there, didn't you?
@@tracyroweauthor Don’t bother responding to him. I simply block these trolls now
@@witchplease9695 You have a block button?!
@@witchplease9695 I generally report them.
I can't stomach listening to Justin Timberlake's music anymore.
Tell me more...Why?
@@srami004 In 2004 he accidentally caused Janet Jackson to have a fashion malfunction. It didn't affected him at all and it was all blamed on Janet. She was disgraced while he got off Scot free.
@@historylovingvileplume895 so it was his fault 😂😂
@@mewesquirrel6720 When he didn't say shit in her defense and let the public narrative burn her career down? And standing up for her would have stupidly easy? Yeah. It was. Still is.
SAME HERE!!!
I became an ardent feminist in the mid-2010s amid the "anti-SJW" and "anti-feminist" movements that dominated UA-cam and other social media platforms for so long. The backlash against Rebecca Watson -- and Richard Dawkins's response to her -- for daring to suggest that following a woman into an elevator, alone, at 5 in the morning and "asking her to his room for coffee" might make her a bit uncomfortable and that he probably shouldn't do that led me down a seemingly unending rabbit-hole of misogyny and male supremacy that still boils my blood when I think of it. The fact that that male supremacist attitude so often goes hand-in-hand with white supremacy should come as no surprise to anyone. There used to be a series on UA-cam called "What's Wrong with Feminism" that catalogued a lot of MRA nonsense, but sadly that channel has been gone for a long time.
Post-Feminism seemed to be code for Cis, Able bodied, Pretty TM, Thin, Het White Feminism; looking back.
Anyone think that Bridget's fits were inspired by Monica Lewinsky during the scandal. Big diff being that Monica had fashion flair and was a brunette
I also want to point out that it's possible to bumble and fail (and still succeed) like Bridget if you came from and from the same upper middle class background as she. Look at her upbringing and the house she grew up in, it looks like it'd belong around the country clubs in my town.
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I never considered the similarities between Bridget and Monica. Do you think the author of Bridget Jones was inspired by the Clinton scandal?
@@queenemma5823 I thought it was inspired by Pride and Prejudice
@@queenemma5823 No. I was speaking of costume design. But Beanie as Monica gave me Joan Holloway vibes, if Joan was more naive and worked as a DC intern during the decade of Heroin Chic
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 ahh, I see what you mean now. I didn’t realize ‘fits was short for ‘outfits. I was thinking fits as in fits of emotion (like fits of rage). That makes a lot more sense
I was at the beginning of my teens in the '00s. Now I'm 30, and despite a lot of work over the years, I'm still suffering from ED and BDD... a horrible time to be at that age.
this confirms my belief growing up (and now) that the 00's sucked. Back then we looked back on the 80s with disdain but man the consciousness and renewed artistic integrity in our culture right now confirms some of the toxic shit of the 00s. As a man this video taught me a lot. I knew there was misogyny ahoy with Britney and Paris etc. but I realize how extensive it was now.
Just like the last third of this video, I've been appreciating how people are re-thinking the way certain women were reviled in the 90s/ early 00s (I recommend the 'You're Wrong About' podcast's episodes about Lewinsky, Anna Nicole Smith, and other maligned women of the 90s)
Also, you used a clip from the movie Last Supper, which is so deliciously effed up and makes me like this channel even more.
Yes! Anna Nicole Smith should definitely feature in this video. Brittany Murphy too.
@@tchaika222 yes. Anna Nicole Smith and Brittany Murphy deserved better.
I've always seen Legally Blonde and Miss Congeniality as lessons to embrace femininity as valuable part of society/ getting things done right. It could be because I was "one of the boys" growing up and had a lot to unpack in progress to become stable adult. I was a teen in early '00 so this video really hits the spot.
Thank you for explaining why I was so depressed and miserable in the 00s! Now I know it wasn't all in my head. :) I was brainwashed into thinking that there was this one "feminism" - which really wasn't even feminism but supposedly post-.
There’s a strong element of nostalgia that plays into a current cultural moment. The 2000’s were a 80’s nostalgia era, one where conservative ideals were played up and “men are men” narratives were shoved forward. To be a feminist was to be considered “a bitch” or “difficult.” Sadly, too many people have a desire to live in 1983-1989, the peak years of Reaganism, Moral Majority conservatism.
Notice how in the 1990s there was a cultural trend to equalize women’s access to work. Then a drop in the 2000s up through today, although the pandemic has affected that drop of women disproportionately.
We are seeing a return to feminism in part as a reaction to the cultural shift of the past 20 years.
Yeah plus looking back, Reagan is kind of the cause of every issue plaguing modern America.
This is a very important topic. Thanks for "taking" it on. I'm looking forward to it and sharing it all with my 11 and 14 year old daughters.
yes you must teach them how oppressed they still are gods work
@@ridizzle189 there's nothing wrong with learning about the world and its social issues. It might give them another perspective about our society's culture than blaming themselves for things they cannot control. It's better for them to learn of this phenomenon in our society than being blind in this atmosphere in social media craze and entertainment culture.
Please make a video about Lindsay Lohan. She was one of the victims of tabloid culture.
That and stage parents
I’m so excited about this series! It’s been really interesting to re-examine how our society treated Paris, Britney, Jessica Simpson, etc and realize now how HORRIFIC it was and reflect how that treatment affected my own view of (and fear around my own) femininity growing up.
I prolly have a simplistic view of Feminism: simply put, its the ability to give people pants or skirts. If they wear skirts, don't question them when they wear pants, and vice versa.
The problem with society is that we're forced to take one label, and then we get severely punished once we chose our side. We are encouraged to be mothers, but we're looked down on when we go out or continue to work. A mother can love her children without worshipping them and being there 24/7 yknow? If we choose to become childless, we are called selfish, and also expected to 'pull our weight' and work, or we are titled as 'trophy wives'.
This is a problem across genders, but largely more visible with people identifying as women.
If we could only just not be in each other's business for as long as we dont hurt or kill anyone...
I love that as white women you always acknowledge how women of colour have different experiences and treatment on screen when talking about gender issues. It’s very important to the conversation and too often feminist issues get reduced to just cis, straight, white feminist issues rather.
Please make a video about how the beauty standards for women of today perpetuate the idea that only beautiful women are worthy of attention (being listened to, being taken into consideration and also getting male attention). Because it is a pattern in society and it needs to be named.
I don't hear men describing themselves by their relationship status or parental status. It's often the occupation or job they do. When I say what I do when asked by others it's always another voice that asks about family and kids as if I have left something important out. But, I never hear the same questions asked of men. And somehow that is sexist? To whom? Seems to me it would bevtp women. Yes, we becomes wives and mothers. We also are professors, doctors, lawyers, ceos, business owners, realtors contractors, police force,fire fighters, etc.
I'm a neuroscientist and professor. The mother and daughter categories are important, but I had to earn my degrees. Getting pregnant wasn't that hard. So while I adore my son and would give up my life for him, becoming a mother isn't the hardest thing I've ever done.
YAAS 👏🏻 women should never lose themselves just because they have kids!
my mom was a geology major. That was the hard part. Like you said, it wasn't hard to become a mother or a wife. Of course, if someone wants to define themselves as a mother first (which is hard in a different way), more power to them. Female empowerment is about the female and what empowers the individual female, so if being a mom empowers you, then we should 100% support and encourage that. But if a woman wants to define herself by her career, why stop her? That's what she wants to be known for, and she's worked hard for that, so let's reward her efforts. Just like if a man wants to be known first as a dad and second as a construction worker, absolutely. But if you'd rather be known as a construction worker and then a dad, that's valid too. Even if it's not what we'd choose to represent ourselves by, who cares? It's what they want to identify with, and we are not them, so it's none of our business.
Getting pregnant and giving birth aren't what make you a mother. And being a good parent is the most important role anyone can fill regardless of gender. The problem with any ideology is that they involve reductively distorted world views, like the notion that a career and family are fundamentally at odds with each other or dichotomous, when work provides materials for family and family provides purpose to make productive work bearable.
The myth of postfeminism you hit the nail on the head when it recognized the goals for ciswhitehetero-upper/middle class women were partially actualized. And, it's interesting how second-wave feminism was involving into third wave feminism and the need for inclusion of all women, not just the defaulted white women, and how far we need to go. With all the shows mentioned, the experiences of women of color were secondary to that of the white woman professional protagonist. Ally McBeal had a black roommate who was also a lawyer, but we never saw Renee in the courtroom. Samantha Jones dated a Black man, and felt entitled to respect when his sister did not look kindly on that relationship, not to mention the loud transgender hookers outside of her apartment.
So, if Sex and the City is being revived now, will the harms of the seasons and the two movies perpetuate?
Samantha did deserve respect from the sister.
@@franciscoancer2618 But Samantha didn't feel like engaging with the sister to know why, and because her interest was centered, it read racist.
@@outinsider Samantha did know why, the sister told her that she didn't want her brother to end up with a white women. I admit Samantha may have defended herself too aggressively but the sister had no business interfering with her brother's love life just because of race.
@@franciscoancer2618 White people do that all the time, and Samantha wasn't exactly innocent in that regard. She just felt too entitled to her recent boyfriend at the time, and fetished him. Because the show is about white women and written by a white man, it was made to look like her problem. There are valid reasons why Black people like the sister feel that way that went unexplored.
@@franciscoancer2618 And Samantha, like any white person, felt entitled to treat Black people however she wished regardless of treating them like people. That's why the treatment of her lover and his sister is racist.
The saddest thing for me at this specific moment is that women can make such a great, informative video like this and still the comments are full of men misinterpreting and misunderstanding it. However.. This video made me feel good about where we are now vs just 10 years ago
I'm confused. How is finding happiness in relationships unfulfilling? The family man often praised for putting his family first over his career, but the family woman is unambitious?
Because historically women were forced to put the needs of her husband and children first.
And that’s not getting into the stress of taking of the children, maintaining the house, AND working outside the home.
At least the husband just works all day and expects dinner on the table. He’s not expected to do chores and take care of the kids.
So it’s no wonder heterosexual women are more likely to file for divorce.
@@beethovensfidelio she should tell him it bothers her then. No one can read minds.
@@mastersnet18 And historically that fell and often still falls on deaf ears in the best of cases or was and still is answered with domestic abuse in the worst of cases.
@@AlexandruVoda historically sure. But in this day and age thankfully women have far more rights (with the exception of a few countries).
@@mastersnet18 In many western countries they do indeed have more equal rights in the law compared to the past but that does not mean that those countries are free of domestic unfairness or free of domenstic abuse. There are social and economical pressures that result in women not exercising those rights.
When Amy Winehouse died, media also pretended to be grieving, but shortly before her death they all were shaming her for sex, clothing and addictions, peaking with that clip of crowd booing her during concert.
Congrats on one of the best videos in this channel. Your work by putting complex and important issues filtered through pop culture is amazing and educational. Thank you so much for your contribution to the feminism movement!
I'm only now understanding how I and so many guys of my generation got bought in this lie of women having nothing to complain about. The 00s were so horrific in many ways, and this video proved it once more. Thank you so much.
Cry me a river!
I'm so excited for your feminist series I love it when you do videos that call out how unjust women are portrayed in film.
Ultimately the problems are the writers are still trapped within the Heys code. They do not have the Pre Code Era grit and freedom of true feminism.
Thanks for create the Feminist series. As ever, I am excited to watch your videos every week ✨
I remember my mother watching tv, movies and rolling her eyes and expressing disgust at the general culture towards women in the 2000s. I remember her watching morning tv and the male presenter David kosh koshie* being openly lewd toward the female presenters. Watching the women try to laugh it off, brush it off only to be jeered at with 'smile, it's a joke' or 'get a sense of humour'.
We really needed to chill back in the 2000s.
Can we talk about My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which is one of the few rom-com movies where the main character goes through a "makeover" and glow up because she gains her own sense of self and learns to value herself, and starts seeing herself as beautiful as she gains independence?
It helps that the movie was written by a woman: Nia Vardalos.
My mother once screamed at me: „if you are as old as Britney, then you can dress like Britney!“, as I tried to look like the girls in the magazines for the people who then called me a slut.
I really feel for her, from my heart. I bet 00‘s girls know how it all feels. It drives me to tears of joy that shes still alive and that they helped her free herself.
I thoroughly enjoy these segments! Helps me see how influential the media has on the audience on what they think is acceptable. Glad The Take is uncovering these issues and more!
i wanted to thank u guys for addressing heteronormativity in this video and some of ur others as well. i'm a more masculine-presenting lesbian and i've felt really alienated by a lot of contemporary feminist discussions that leave us out or assume we have privilege even though, as you've pointed out, we're demonized for not conforming to our society's narrow version of acceptable womanhood just as all other women are. it's just nice to see the aggressive heteronormativity and homophobia in the media at large being acknowledged and called out for the way it harms real women instead of it being brushed under the rug. so thank you :)
8:27 "I don't want to be known as the attorney who let the judge tell her how to dress."
The problem is that people try to rise their self by tearing others down, people who do that will never truly be happy and will try to make others as misereble.
Love this - can’t wait for more in this series!!
I'm excited for this series!
It's validating to recognize how gaslit we were during the early 2000's.
It mostly makes me angry, tbh
Don't forget about the mid-to-late 2010s as well.
This is easily my favorite UA-cam channel
I am so excited for this series! People love to demonize feminism and ignore the fact that there are different branches of feminism. While we aren’t legally oppressed, sexism will always be a problem and it won’t ever go away. Ignorance and prejudice will always exist. The strawfeminist archetype is the worst! Megan Fox, Paris, and Brittany weren’t the only victims of the media. Jessica Simpson was labeled a “dumb blonde.”
The 80’s was more progressive than the 90’s and 2000’s
I am so glad that we are finally addressing how disgusting the media was and how women and other sexual assault and abuse survivors are finally allowed to have voices in the media! That’s the one good thing about social media. Thank God we are addressing those issues like sexual harassment, abuse, etc.
Yeah there were many victims of the media but Paris is as much victim as perpetrator and opportunist. Still one of the most pathetic celebrities of the 21st century.
This series is going to be so goooood 💚💜
Seeing our society as post feminist and post racial was so simultaneously self congratulatory and deeply conservative.
It was only when I started listening to feminists I realized most people incorrectly see the straw feminist as the true feminist.
Such a great video! I'm really looking forward to more in this series; I could watch videos like this every day. Thank you!
The people asking whether these women are feminists are the ones upholding the patriarchy and should be held more accountable than the celebrities giving poor answers. That is, I doubt the interviewer is asking as a way of saying these women aren't upholding their responsibilities but more as a way to get a headline. And part of the reason for the poor answers is a financial insecurity of saying something that will hurt their careers.
If your a true feminist you have NO excuse for poor answers!
@@imnancybitch3561 There’s no such thing as a true feminist any more that there’s such a thing as a true Scotsman.
@@beethovensfidelio MISOGYNISTIC
@@imnancybitch3561 just as there is no excuse for feminism
@@imnancybitch3561 just as there is no excuse for feminism
I interpreted the point of the “feminist” character in Legally Blonde is that she’s just as sexist and judgmental as everyone else.
I have always struggled with the identification of feminism, not because of I deny it is unnecesary, it is actually more complex. There are circles and feminists that attack women like me who wants to have modest career lives, children and marriage, I have been told by feminists that I should embrace my love for "women" to the point of question my sexuality. Maybe I have not found a good circle that respects my wishes, yet I believe that we can be different.
Sounds like you've been listening to radical feminists. These days feminism is about choice.
I’m sorry you’ve been attacked. That so uncool. Like the other commenter above^^ feminism is about agency and choice. Wearing makeup or not, choosing to stay at home to have kids, (if you have that financial ability) or being child free is all feminist af.
those people who attack you are not feminists and know nothing about what feminism is
@@tracyroweauthor That is what my sister tells me, it is sad that some people want to turn a movement about liberty in a women vs men contest. I'll keep in mind what you are telling me.
Nice pfp .I love Emma from the promised Neverland and yeah it's a shame that people have made you feel bad for things that are completely fine
Thanks for explicitly including trans women in the video! I’m always looking for feminist analysis of media, but sometimes have to be wary of certain “feminists” in certain spaces. It’s important to fight with each other for our collective rights rather than pit ourselves against one another. Thank you ❤️.
It's okay you can say TERFS. They are horrible
@@lesbiangoddess290 oh for sure, I don’t love the term though, not because it’s a slur or anything (it 1000% isn’t), but because I don’t think it’s very accurate. There are some more second wave feminist TERFS, but in my experience if you scratch at the surface of any given TERF, you find right wing & often religious fundamentalist backgrounds pretty quickly.
The term “terf” has always confused me. If your feminism includes AFAB non-binary folks and trans men, are you really a terf? What’s wrong with advocation for sex-based (XX) rights?
@Lucia C alright fam, whatever you say
@@unimpressedcat2140 yes, because it doesn’t include trans women. We clearly dislike the term for extremely different reasons. Advocating for so called “XX” rights isn’t a thing, it’s a stupid made up talking point perpetrated by transphobes to try & convince cis women that trans women pose a threat. They don’t.
No one dictates life based on chromosomes, but even if they did, not all AFAB people have XX chromosomes.
You’re the exact kind of person I try to avoid. You’re no feminist at all. Give your head a shake.
So excited for this new series! Also, would like to know more about how that also intersects for Women of Color. Since these are examples of White women's storylines in the early 2000s. Although again I know that the zygist was not really aware of how those intersections really didn't exist.
I hate the 00's. The most scary part of that is, u know, "history repeats itself" n i hate that, i rlly hate that i hate thinking about that
Are you talking from experience? Did you grow up in the 2000s?
About five years ago, or so, I thought feminism was kinda overblown and antagonistic to men, so I rolled my eyes at the concept. Then one evening at home with my family, something in our conversation led me to say "That's sexist!!" - my sister then called me a feminist and it felt strangely accurate. I finally understood what it was all about. Perhaps it was studying at the university with a lot of awesome women that sent me in the right direction. Sadly, I remain the only feminist in my family, as they all seem to believe we live in a post-feminist world and that the MeToo movement(s) are just a bunch of vengeful women angry about a 20 year old joke they didn't find funny. I am hoping to help them get rid of that mindset.
So you think feminism has NEVER been antagonistic to men?
@@christopherbrown5409 Well, when you put like that: no. No, I don't think that the entire global century-spanning philosophy behind the equal rights for both sexes has ever been antagonistic towards men.
Feminism is a vast movement, which varies between nations and even smaller regions within certain nations. Many still take for granted that there are certain places in the world where women still have significantly fewer rights compared to the rest of the world. It is a broad spectrum, concerned with the needs of people in their specific parts of the world.
In your question, you also make the telling decision to frame feminism in its relation to men, instead of as a movement for women to seek equality. Yes, there is room for men in feminism, things that will benefit both sexes in the long run. By making room for women in the workforce, men no longer have to be honour-bond by their penises to be the sole providers for their families. But at the end of the day, equality will have more noticeable benefits for women compared to men, since these benefits are a matter of changing society for equal rights vs. changing society for less pressure to fit the expectations tied to one's sex.
Feminism has for most of its existence been about women finding a place in the world besides men. Some early feminists didn't even want the right to vote, viewing the vote as a family thing, which only one member (husband/father) needed to do. Additionally, some of the earliest feminists were well-educated men, who saw benefits for society if women got more rights, which included the vote. Interestingly, there exists feminist literature all the way back from the late 1700s by men who advocated for women's rights.
There are surely those who identify as feminists that hate men as a concept, but that is not equal to the overarching movement. The closest you'll find would be radical feminism, which is a hyper-critical view of patriarchy as aggressive and oppressive, while calling for a new order with women more prominently featured at the ruling level. Some radical feminists are even considered too radical for the rest of us, but for every good debate, one needs the radical sides as cornerstones so one can find a good place to stand in the middle.
At this point, we might as well make the distinction between misogyny and misandry. Misogyny is the most common of these two. It is the one associated with hatred of women and all things considered feminine. Misogyny is very pervasive, as most societies have a negative subconscious view of females both for what they do and for what they don't do. People judge a women for wearing too much make-up or for not wearing any at all; for playing sports or for dancing ballet; for having children or for not having children. It is a difficult circle to break, as it is so ingrained in most cultures. Meanwhile, misandry is the lesser known of these two, even to the point that Microsoft Word underlines it as a misspelled word and wants to replace it with misogyny. Anyways, misandry is mostly associated with negative experiences like physical and sexual abuse, which then manifests into fear and mistrust. In most cases, misandry has an origin for a person, while misogyny doesn't need any significant event to develop in the mind. Curiously, misogyny can be associated with benign things, such as being delicate or the colour pink, while misandry is associated with violence and aggression. Yet, there are more misogynists in the world than there are misandrists.
I recognise that it is difficult for men to be on the outside looking in at a discussion they have trouble entering, but it is a matter of knowing how to approach it. Listen to the conversation and learn the subject matter, instead of dismissing it for the bad publicity it gets. There have always been male feminists as well, so it is not an exclusive club where you need a vagina to enter.
@@Spicie95 I framed feminism in relation to men because you stated that you regressed from "feminism is antagonistic to men" to becoming a feminist. Let's not pretend there was some sexist motive, ma'am.
On to your novel...
1. I never asked, implied, or stated that feminism has no room for men; I'm quite aware of the existence of male feminists (sadly).
2. Women aren't owed men "making room for them in the workplace" (whatever that's supposed to look like) because no one is owed anything in this world- especially the professional world, where competition is elemental.
3. So because misandry is less recognised by society, it's less of a problem or thing? And misandry is justifiable due to the actions of a small subset of men and prolonged trauma? And misogyny never originates from individual negative experiences with individual women (say, abusive mothers, bitchy and passive-aggressive exes, or the like)? And no one ever judged or judges men for anything they do, like, or say?
Is that really what you're typing right now?
@@christopherbrown5409 Your second point is in part why some branches of feminists point toward marxism and socialism : because this mentality is meant, with the history of women being neglected in the workplace and discouraged from competing, to create a corporate world which is a hostile man dominated space. A "walk or die" mentality.
Misandry does not have the same power over men's lives as misogyny in women's lives. Misogyny developping from individual experiences does not develop alone : if the individual is brought to that point, it is most likely because the society he lives in has planted the seed of it. Experiences are just its fertilizer. We do know via studies that yes, women often get more in trouble for being outspoken.
@@alicedeligny9240 which is trash, because Mrxism and socialism only benefit the lowest/most underachieving of society, which is why it's failed EVERYWHERE IT EVER WAS.
So what you're saying is misandry isn't a problem at all, and no negative narratives are ever told about men?
OMG THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS. I've been wishing and wishing for years now that someone would do an analysis of our pop culture and feminism.
For me it started with a curiosity with Taylor Swift. When I was a kid I never liked her because she was the whole "white virgin princess" concept. But now that I'm older I think she is a fascinating case study. There are so many different facets to understanding her influence in society over time in terms of what's ok for a woman or girl and what isn't. And then on the opposite spectrum you have Beyonce and her assertion of feminism. And for a long time the persona and values of Taylor Swift (teenage Taylor Swift, not current) vs Beyonce were pitted against each other, even if Kanye hadn't said anything. One is a white, delicate, princess and the other a strong black queen. The more and more I think about pop culture and feminism the more I see case studies everywhere. Ariana Grande, the WAP video, the intro to Best Friend by Doja Cat and Saweetie. Or the Pussycat Dolls.
There is just SO MUCH to talk about and I don't know how to handle all of that analysis by myself. I've been wishing for years now that someone would make a book or something talking about all of this. Finally, someone did. THANK YOU. And thank you for making it a whole series about it not just one video.
PS - I love y'alls videos.
PSS - this is the first time I've felt intellectually engaged online in many many years. THANK YOU.
The fact that society normalised hating on young people and especially who don’t conform is more disturbing than bigotry because the hatred was enabled by the silence. Homomisia and Transmisia (or Transphobia and Homophobia) was rampant in the ‘90s but there was a latent version of that in the 2000s because one thought the worst had left us.
🙄
I love the series!! Such a good idea!!!