Steven Wilson: Don't Structure Songs Like This
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2022
- Songwriters & producers, this is how to structure your songs.
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ABOUT
Hack Music Theory is the fast, easy and fun way to make music. Taught by multi-award-winning music lecturer Ray Harmony, and his protégé wife Kate. Ray started teaching music theory in 1995, and has made music with Serj Tankian (System Of A Down), Tom Morello (Rage Against The Machine), Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree), Devin Townsend, Ihsahn, and more!
CREDITS
© 2022 Revolution Harmony
Revolution Harmony is Ray Harmony & Kate Harmony
Script & all music in video by Revolution Harmony
All stock footage courtesy of Pexels
►Watch all the Steven Wilson videos in this series: ua-cam.com/video/ziKYBFki3kI/v-deo.html
One thing I've learned is to use repeating sections to build consistency in the track, but to bring the beginning of the song to someplace different by the end to make you feel like you've gone on a journey. Great advice! I think the pop song form stems from its folk song roots, where songs in many cases weren't recorded and instead transported from person to person - nowadays since we can listen to things over and over I think it's more exciting to have structures that suit the emotional narrative of a song.
Indeed, Daniel, thanks for sharing! How's your music making going these days?
Thanks so much for being in the Hack Music Theory community, we wish you a lovely weekend :)
The Hollies sang about life being a carousel. That immediately brings to my mind that everyone's starting point in life is different. Moving the start and end points around in a song is reflective of the reality that everyone gets on the carousel ride at a different place. It's also a bit like some novels or TV dramas, where the writers start with an ending scene to help build up expectation by the time the end comes around.
That said, and to paraphrase a famous aphorism, a good prog-rocker is a songwriter who _knows_ how to write a good song with a verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus structure, but who _doesn't_. That's for all of you guitar players who will try to cram all the riffs they ever came up with with dubious transitions into their first 25 minutes-long song. 😜
Hey hey Eric, thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts :) We really appreciate you being here in the Hack Music Theory community!
Simple you keep the ideas for later, can't do it all on one song, you'll end up with many songs but make sure the like ones go together
Yeah I feel like I could approach writing prog better now that I’ve honed in my more conventional song writing skills. I would definitely have a clearer direction going into a song at this point.
Lol exactly
@@HackMusicTheory lol yah totally
Steven's song "Personal Shopper" is a perfect example of him eschewing all structural and conventional norms, and doing his own thing - and it's a fantastic song on top of all of that.
Indeed, Scott! Thanks so much for watching :)
What kind of music are you into?
Wishing you a fantastic rest of your day!
@@HackMusicTheory I love pretty much all music from metal to baroque, but the music I make is usually (but not always) synth-based alternative, genre-busting things. All on my UA-cam channel if you care to listen. :)
I love the idea of not knowing where a song is going to go. To let it take you on that journey. I have however found that there are some top tier acts that keep you on your toes, not knowing what's coming, but at the same time you can almost tell where the song wants to go. Insane level of song writing talent. Porcupine Tree, Haken, Yes, to name a few!
It's all about the journey, and the thrill of the ride, isn't it?!
Try Caligula’s Horse and then let me know what you thought?
@@tronlady1 previewed a few tracks! I like what I hear. Will be digging in today. Thanks friend!
@@HackMusicTheory absolutely!!!
total legend. 3 years older, my favorite song of his, is a great example of what he just talked about
Thanks for watching and sharing, Isaías! What kind of music do you make?
Wishing you a fantastic week ahead :)
Steven is so inspiring. I’m stoked for the new Porcupine Tree album (should be coming in the mail any time now). Thanks!
Hi Liquid Solids, that's super exciting! Thanks for stopping by, and we wish you a fantastic weekend :)
@@HackMusicTheory Thanks! You too!
hope you get your record soon. I listened today and it was incredible.
But I mean. One of the trademarks of Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson is that in some of the best song managed they managed to sound prog while kind of sticking to the pop format.
Its not like Blind Guardian where every verse is different. Some of Steven Wilson's stuff Is kind of minimalistic like that. Doing alot with little. I do like long form stuff like The Sky Moves Sideways alot though.
Steven Wilson is one of the musicians i respect the most, precisely because of this. His music is so unique, it's just perfect.
Thanks for watching and sharing, Witch :) What kind of music do you make?
Take care and have a great week!
"To me, the essence of all music is the surprise. When I listen to a piece of music, if I'm not surprised within the first eight bars, I stop listening, I switch off." ~ Sting
OMG another healthy pill of originality ;-) keep up the good work ! :-) this is fresh air to breath in a world of flatness and conformity
Lol, happy to hear you enjoyed this one too, Marco!! Have a fantastic weekend :)
I Steven is making the point here that the prog genre as a whole is really just to me an extension of classical music, which often had chaotic or asymmetrical compositions. Steven' and other's music that the influence of classical is still very strong in prog to this day especially when looking as far back in the prog scene as King Crimson or Gentle Giant (Which Steven is into).
Hey John, thanks so much for watching and connecting :) Indeed, there's so much to learn from the music composition techniques of "classical" music, in fact that's how Hack Music Theory was born! We take those techniques and make them applicable to "popular" music. Thanks again for stopping by John, we wish you a lovely week :)
This its nteresting having played both classical and rock -I can now write songs that only conform to the poetry I have written first and then play with that!
That's wonderful, Robert! Indeed, there's so much to learn from playing/studying all kinds of music :) That's how Hack Music Theory was born! We take the techniques used by "classical" composers and make them applicable to "popular" music. Thanks for stopping by and connecting Robert, we wish you all the best with your music making :)
Thanks Alot for this video
Love it! As someone on the spectrum, it’s very easy for me to get stuck on the “rules”. This interview has been liberating for me so far. Thank you again!
I couldn't agree more. Music is like a giant endless puzzle where all the pieces can fit in any way you want. And that is the part about creating art (I think) that entices and engages us: choices and endless possibilities. Our deepest sense of self gets expressed through those choices. Ponder that for a bit.
Being stuck on rules is/was still important because it doesn't allow us to stray too far from a safe, prescribed path, particularly when things might be very unsafe for us otherwise. IMO, when the desire to take a risk flowers, that is the right time to drop the prescribed 'rules'. Rules are important for maintaining discipline and no rules are important for flowering one's creativity.
Hey rtdude1, happy to see you catching this next clip :) Wishing you a fantastic weekend!
@@tullfan2560 I like that. I've always told budding musicians to learn the rules...so that you can break them even better and more wildly. Know where the lines are, so you can color outside of them with brash finesse!
@@tullfan2560 I like that too. And what you said as well @AUTOSAD. Thank you both for your words of wisdom it is much appreciated.
I too have never structured a song that way.
However, I’ve never written a song either.
Oi sou do Brasil
Cara, gosto muito do seu trabalho tanto do canal e o do Steve, ele fez a trilha sonora do last day of june, um ótimo jogo
Gosto muito das músicas dele são boas demais
Não esperava ele no canal
Parabéns pelo conteúdo
Olá Davi! Thanks for your kind words, and thank you for being a part of the Hack Music Theory community :) Did you see our last video with Steven? ua-cam.com/video/ziKYBFki3kI/v-deo.html We've got another one for next week, so stay tuned! We'd also love to know what kind of music you're making?
The Goat of Prog. The new album is nothing but a banger 🤘
Hi Arjun! Happy to hear you're enjoying the album :) Wishing you a fantastic weekend!
@@HackMusicTheory Same to you guys too. All hail prog.
I can't think of a band with a greater range nor a band that can play so many different styles of music. Add to that Steven Wilson's proficiency in production techniques and his ability to seamlessly merge together different passages of music and I agree SW/PT is the greatest ... after JS Bach. 😊😊
No one touches Bach!!
This is very cool, thanks!
Happy you think so, HAZARDOUS88 :) Wishing you a lovely weekend and many blessings! K
@@HackMusicTheory Thank you!!
i was listening to 'you make loving fun' by fleetwood mac today. i noticed that the chorus doesn't start until, like, the friggin' END of the song, after a couple fake out chorus bridge thingies (i'm willing to believe, eee e HEEVE) . i found that to be a very interesting structure...
I always wondered how they/he went about composing the polyphonic vocal harmony melodies. I love those
According to Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, progressive music is for people who get bored with standard music. There's no better exponent of doing just that than the best prog bands like Tull and Porcupine Tree.
Thanks for stopping by, Tull Fan, we really appreciate you jumping in and connecting :) What kind of music do you make? Wishing you a fantastic weekend!
@@HackMusicTheory I'm no musician unfortunately, however I do appreciate good music and insights into how things are constructed. I am a scholar with an interest in listening to and understanding music.
That's wonderful, Tull! We need more people in the world like you :)
Listening to this, it makes more sense that he doesn't like the song Shallow from Deadwing
What song was thag guitars bass drums in the start.
It's from our tutorial on The Arusha Accord. Here you go my friend :) ua-cam.com/video/Lv_3EZwyLHQ/v-deo.html
what's the song that's playing in the background during the prog part?
Hi Chris, thanks for stopping by, what kind of music do you make? That music is from our Arusha Accord tutorial called "One-Note Bass Line": ua-cam.com/video/Lv_3EZwyLHQ/v-deo.html Take care and have a great week :)
When is the full video coming?
Hey Arron, thanks so much for stopping by! We haven't posted the full interview, but stay tuned for more from SW over the next couple weeks :) We wish you a wonderful weekend!
The beauty of music is that there's a song/genre/whatever for everyone...and after more than 30 years playing and listening lots of music now I know that it's all about the energy and emotion you feel when you listen or play a song you love.
Most of the people freak out when I said that I don't like Pink Floyd. I can listen one or two songs...I can appreciate the excellent musicianship and production...but I don't feel the same emotions and energy which I feel listening Ray Charles , just to pick up an example.
I love Rush and the Police the same way I love Motorhead...IMO / IME it's all about energy, not structure.
the energy you describe is likely in some sense related to something more objective. For example, you might only get certain feelings from certain chord progressions, certain type of vocals, lyrics, modes/scales etc. Maybe indeed for you it _feels_ like energy, but there is likely a logical reason why you some songs do it for you but others do not, without you realizing it. For example, I recently found out I always like songs more if they use the harmonic minor scale rather than the natural minor scale, cause it creates more tension and i know I like tension in my music. I could call that admosphere or energy or whatever, but that is not really the logical underlying reason.
1:00 what is the song in the background ?
Hi Jai ShriRam, thanks for stopping by! That music is from our Arusha Accord tutorial called "One-Note Bass Line": ua-cam.com/video/Lv_3EZwyLHQ/v-deo.html Take care and have a great weekend :)
Such a very cool guy. ❤️
Hi Tobias, thanks for watching and being a part of the Hack Music Theory community, we really appreciate you :) What kind of music do you make?
Take care and we hope you have a great rest of your week!
@@HackMusicTheory hey thanks your channel is awesome and I learned a lot from you! :) I make something between progressive metal, elektro and... Math rock, I think 😅
Nice, Tobias! What are some of your favourite bands?
@@HackMusicTheory meshuggah, animals as leaders, the contortionist, plini, the Hirsch Effekt! 🥰
Cool, those are great ones for sure! Thanks for sharing, Tobias, and be sure to stay tuned for more from SW :)
Why is there a reverb effect on Steven Wilsons voice?
to add subliminial emphasis to the speech xD
What's the song in the back?
Hi Radosław, a warm welcome to the Hack Music Theory community! What kind of music do you make? The heavy music in the video is from our Arusha Accord tutorial called "One-Note Bass Line": ua-cam.com/video/Lv_3EZwyLHQ/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, Radosław, we hope you have a great week!
Yea this guy formed the band who created Anesthetize so I think I do understand what he means
I really enjoy listening to unconventional music, but I’ll be honest. Sticking to the formula, at least for now, is so much easier than trying to stray. Partially I blame my ADHD, partially I blame a desire for simplicity.
Hi Geometrix, great to see you here and thanks so much for sharing :) What kind of music do you make? Wishing you a fantastic weekend!
@@HackMusicTheory I like to call it Pop Punk, though lately things have gone all minor and aggressive. Used to write with more metal-tinged stuff before taking a decade-long sabbatical.
Cool, thanks for sharing, Geometrix :) There seems to be a lot of aggression in the air these days, it's so great that you're channeling it into music, lol! What are some of your favourite bands?
I think the new Porcupine Tree album is where I wish Steven Wilson would have gone on his last solo album, which I didn't like at all.
0:03 years of pre-historic internet crap has taught me that a screaming monster should appear any second now...
And...?!
PS. For the record, it was tempting to put a monster in there, but you'd probably be the only person to appreciate it :)
0:30 DJEND material!!!
Absolutely, Andrei!! That's from one of our old tutorials: ua-cam.com/video/Lv_3EZwyLHQ/v-deo.html Hope all is well with you and your family, wishing you many blessings :) Kate
@@HackMusicTheory yes but I meant the video sequence :) Thank you, all is well and the wee fella is ok too :)
Of course!! Happy to hear the wee one is doing well :)
I think of P. Floyd. They are in some way in the "club" of that progressive thing.They just did great songs. Simple. When you gather a bunch of extra virtuosos the result is great playing but not great songs . We have exceptions but its scarce.
This is like Prog 101: Babies' introduction to unconventional song structures
Haha, like it, Toprak :) Wishing you a fantastic weekend!
@@HackMusicTheory Thank you, you too :D
Lol... we're in the same page!!!!!!
Lol, excellent!
I couldn't agree more. I'm so bored of a couple verses plus chorus and a twiddly bit.
Hi Fatty BoomBatty, great to see you again :) How's the music making going these days? As always, so much gratitude to you for being here in the HMT community!
Like the videos
But why not show the whole interview in one setting
Happy to hear you're enjoying these videos, Chris. We're having so much fun making creative "short films" out of our interview with Steven. There are already hundreds of interviews with Steven on UA-cam, so we're feeling inspired to do something different :)
@@HackMusicTheory ok that's cool, nice work something different is always better
king wilson dictating musical terms
Indeed, Shadow King! Thanks for stopping by, we're grateful to have you in the Hack Music Theory community, what kind of music do you make and/or what are your favourite bands?
Early!
Haha wow that really was early, good job! Hope you enjoy Steven's words of wisdom :)
as if the new album isn't all verse chorus
I'm so bored and annoyed of simple and repetitive music that always get so much praise.
Indeed, Zetsuke4!
𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐦𝐨𝐬𝐦 💪