It's okay to feel unproductive
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
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Great video Mattias, couldn't agree more with everything you said.
Thank you so much, T. Nice to see you here!
#Traversy media #funfunfunction wow both are here so great to have them.😃😃
You guys have to make a collab! I think we all would love that!
Two gurus!!! It'd be fun fun traversy to see a colla :D
hell yea my favorite two gurus here on good terms...unlike all those feuds going on...
There's something enchanting about this episode, love the background music, the atmosphere around, and the great content, totally love it. Thank you mpj!!
Loved that you brought out the human element of solving problems through code. Beautiful. Thank you.
Hello my friend! Really enjoyed this video and its atmosphere! ❤️ I’ve been reflecting a lot lately, and it brought up some recent thoughts.
What’s challenging for me, and something not really mentioned in the video, is evaluating when it’s worth continuing to bang your head or not. Identifying the behavior of “banging your head” as a virtue also implies that one has a functioning set of values that allows them to accurately judge when to stop. If your own judgment is impaired in some way, even relishing in the pursuit will eventually lead you to a cliff of realization when you are forced to confront that the pursuit was futile. The same effect can occur if your team or org has ill-defined goals, but now multiple people are pushed against the cliff instead of just yourself.
I find that a certain amount of validation is still required, whether it’s the build time decreasing, a friend saying “yeah that’s a cool idea”, or even yourself thinking, “yes this is still intriguing”. But it’s harder to subsist purely from internal motivation forever, especially in the low trough during meaningful projects that will have great impact.
Very well put! 💛
After watching this I feel so much lighter. I've being struggling with these feelings the last two years. Your musings are always a great help. Thank you!
PS: Isa's camera work was impressive!
Isa?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I especially agree that emotions can cloud judgment, regarding one’s actual performance and productivity. Totally valid points. ❤️
Always makes me feel better watching your vids. I love the feel and love that you moved back to occasional "musings". I do miss the caffeine driven opening!
I miss that opening too, we'll be shooting a new one in 2019!
@@funfunfunction YEAY!!!!! That makes me very happy!
Really love this kind of episode, Thanks MPJ
💛
This is so spot on. I've fallen into so many of these traps. From feeling down about 'wasting' a week on some arbitrary issue, to feeling an over-hyped sense of productivity because I churned through a million low-priority, easy tickets in a week. I've come to realise that, the most challenging, the most daunting tasks on your board, turn out to be the most valued. If they take time, they take time, try to learn from it. Be vigilant of ways in which you can do this type of task faster next time.
Make sure to document the things you learn after banging your head for too long, so you and others don't end up trying the same thing again.
That is why e.g. stack overflow is so good. It is basically exactly what you describe, documentation for things that other people have struggled with and that you will likely struggle with at some point as well.
@@sadade32 stack overflow !
I used to do it, but now I don't do it often because sometimes my documentation could be wrong and I could fool me in the future
Really been missing this kind of content.
the production value of these videos are really high!! love them
Needed to hear this today! Thanks!
You're doing great! 💛
Good to know that I'm not alone. As a junior developer I feel very unproductive when I can't finish any task in a day, even when the CEO told me that "you'll not getting better, if u doesn't face any problem"
This is exactly the video I needed today.
Thank you so much for this one. Exactly what I needed! Keep 'em coming :)
Some tasks make you feel productive, doesn't they are productive.
"It's my job to bang my head on problems" - my job is not just solving problems.
Sometimes we need to spend time to realize a problem might not be worth solving.
I'm on 7:30 but I already think that it's one of your best videos. Eliyahu Goldratt in The Goal defined productive action as something that brings you closer to your main goal and it totally resonates with what you said.
Sup from HolyJS, btw!
The way to feel fulfilled is to diversify yourself and have other solid hobbies outside of programming/coding that bring you joy. You need to define your productivity with multiple proclivities. Get out of the singular mindset of productivity. Stop having your JOB or a single thing define your purpose and what your productivity should look like. It's not healthy for you.
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Robert Heinlein,
I love your work so much Man! Thank you for these "therapy sessions" haha.
I recognized early in my career the common tendency to favor low hanging fruits in order to maximize that surge of dopamine you talk about. In fact, I too often find myself in situations where it's a race amongst developers to find these quick wins and get padded on the back for appearing productive. So I decided to always challenge myself by tackling the tasks that no-one want (read cross-compatibility issues in IE haha). This coupled with the tendency toward the unhealthy definition of success you talk about leads to some serious bouts of depression :-(
It's great to hear you talk about this and propose an alternate definition of our jobs. I'll definitely shift my perspective. Thanks again!
Great episode! Love the musings. My new job title: 'Headbanger'
I really like re-playing the 'walk and talk' episodes while I work.
Thank you! I really should consider releasing these as podcast episodes.
Video is just Pure Gold :)
Great video! Thank you!
Very, very good content. Wow. Is this just me that I notice IT community starts to talk more about feelings and non-technical stuff nowadays?
Great video as always. It reminds me of fixed mindset vs growth mindset.
I'm still at the learning stage and without professional work done. There were times I realized that I've spent a lot of time on things that just weren't worth it, usually by trying to figure out something simple that just didn't leave me fulfilled. Not that I'm not looking at it as a learning experience still.
Subconsciously, I've started to focus on processes instead. There are 2 steps to make this productive:
1. Before you do any work, you want to confirm that the goal/action you're about to take is relevant and meaningful towards getting to the finish line. This is when you think about the end result and it's best if you visualize it as well. If it passes the test, break the entire thing down into smaller goals and make a task list - why? because you've already confirmed that this work WILL be productive, following a list of tasks will help keep you on track. Keep things simple and don't overthink it. If you want to experiment with your app, do it in the time designated for experimentation, the focus is key.
2. When you're done for the day (or whatever the time frame was) - rate yourself! This is when you want to look at things holistically which is the opposite to when you're coding. The easiest way to do this is by answering questions - how much you've learned, how far your project has progressed, have you accomplished the main goal you've set for today?
This is important because you want to determine whether the goal you've set in the first step was as meaningful as you've thought at that time. Because you're not always going to get this right, especially in the beginning of using this strategy, but as you keep doing this you'll train your brain and get better at setting good goals and seeing what needs to be done.
Note: You need to be good at transparent thinking. If you're not, you'll not get the best results (with this or any other strategy).
Like I mentioned - I'm still in a learning stage (learning node.js currently), this approach has been very useful for me when doing courses and building dummy projects and has helped me become a better developer. I don't think it would be too difficult to replicate in a professional environment.
You remind us that failure(or debugging etc.) is our routine. Failure is the mother of success, but also virtually it is hard to get aside from the idea that result(definition of work in physics, W = Fd) is worthwhile at the end. For me, it's hard to conclude, in a way yes, we should believe in Edison though.
To me it feels like the longer I work as a developer, the more normal it becomes to have also „unproductive“ days. I guess something every developer should have, is a good piece of frustration tolerance. Therefore, to me its key to try to stay balanced in general, and do some stuff beside coding like sports, art, family etc.
Excellent!
RE: timeboxing,
If I had $1 for every time I've heard a dev (including myself) say in standup, "I'm really almost done", and then still be working on that problem 3 days later, I could fund mpj's channel until he retires, and still take early retirement myself.
Reminds me of a very useful video by Jonathan Blow on managing psychology: ua-cam.com/video/i7kh8pNRWOo/v-deo.html
I remember MPJ linking to a JBlow talk about productivity a while back. I wonder if he's seen this one.
Thanks MPJ. Was supposed to be working but decided to be unproductive and watch this
Wow... Thanks MPJ. This is really reflective. I do sometimes get stuck especially as a junior dev among other senior developers, but I do grow during this process. And I have found that I learn and adopt things a lot faster. I find that even the small successes are investments into future productivity, and focusing on the feeling of being unproductive actually inhibits your current productivity. So I always do a bit of self talk to put myself back on track. Thanks!
thank you for this video mattias. the last years I've been struggling a lot with working solely for the 5 minute feeling of resolving a problem. being put into a lead role with no clear guidance of how to handle this brought me to a point where I was severely burned out. mentally and physically unable to enjoy software development or any other activity(shows, movies, books). always on this exhausting hunt for a short feeling of success by completing something. i always had the feeling I have to master another language (-concept), framework or platform. build yet another project.
psychoanalysis has helped me come to the same conclusion you're speaking about here and I am thankful for public people like you, speaking up for looking out for yourself and making sure development (or anything for that matter) doesn't completely drain you. which happens very easily in this completionist ecosystem.
Thanks for the video.
Recently I am feeling very unproductive and unsure.
I just stare at the monitor and have no idea how to code. I just look like a person seeing JS first time.
I have to the thing that I knew already. I have to double check knowledge and it took a whole day to finished which should only take 2 or 3 hours.
Awesome ep
Different vibes (A camera man/woman + NY) , i love it
This kind of new way of telling stories is also extremely appealing to me
Great message.
amazing video!
Hi man, I've been following you for the past weeks. I find that your videos become a lot more philosophical :)
Are you still working dedicated to Fun Fun Functions?
Thanks for sharing this
I liked so much these new lens :D
Really great episode, I know this feeling well. I'm a year into my dev career now and I'm always finding that the times I feel completely stuck are the times where I'm going to eventually make the most valuable breakthrough. Love the Stardew Valley shout out too- I love that game, but wow does it make time disappear like nothing else.
Woah this is such a high quality content
thank you kindly
I had to change the speed of the video to X1.5, cause I couldn't justify watching for 21 minutes and still feel I like I was being productive today... lol
Thanks for this! .
There are times when i feel i should be busy the whole day to be productive.
Even if i get relevant tasks done quick(in which case i am actually being productive) i feel i should be doing more.
Have you felt this ?
Too much philosophy in a single video... It is affecting my brain... What is love?
You are so amazing! i had this feeling but i saw your video and now i feel great, i have a problem with deadlines, when i pass the deadline its like my life has ended, i really get upset and depressed
Glad to have helped! 💛
@@funfunfunction Thank you so much! 💛
Points all well taken. You're good at this. But I think what we in technology do was spelled out in Heidegger's 'The Question Concerning Technology'. We enframe everything as a resource for the Will to Power to manipulate further. Uber and AirBnB freed up the 'resources' of potential hotels and taxis. The fleets and inventories of taxis and hotels weren't efficient enough. Too much potential going to waste. The ultimate app would be the venn diagram of efficiency and human significance so we aren't in a state of rootless terror.
What the hell - just found your channel and you're leaving!!! Plenty of 'reruns' I suppose! Good luck and thanks for the great insights! You're really gonna go places, I can tell (fwiw from a rando on the internet, lol)
Playlist updated 5 days ago. The return of Fun Fun Function and MPJ? Hopefully it happens. MPJ, you've inspired so many to learn code (myself included). Your videos are life changing for many of us. Would love to see you come back to UA-cam.
I'm a simple man. I see videos of really smart people justifying it's all right to be the failure I am, I click ❤
On a serious note, I really did insta click hoping to find comfort, cuz man... been feeling unproductive for a long time now, and it SUCKS.
Did not watch it yet but I'm sure it's a great video, I freaking loved MPJ's past content of this kind. And the comment section here surely seems to confirms that :)
“I have not failed 10,000 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 10,000 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work.” - Thomas Edison
Forgive the essay, but some thoughts after watching the video.
All great stuff, and I agree; when I'm actively engaged in solving a problem it feels like I blink and the day is gone. I even go as far as saying my only real skill is solving problems. I've tailored this skill to a few careers now, including software development.
My question: How do you demonstrate productivity quantitatively when management just wants to see those dopamine check marks?
I'll give an example. I was taking over an Angular project from someone else. 1 component was very close to completed, and my task was to complete 4 more that were pretty similar. The services were designed in such a way that they needed to be reproduced for each component. I spent the time upfront redesigning the services so they could be used for all components. My scrum master, who's not the most knowledgeable when it comes to the actual code implementation, kept pressuring me why I was not completing the individual components, and then was surprised when I completed the redesign of the service and completed all the remainders quickly. This is after my input on task breakdown. They just viewed the priority much differently than I did.
It felt like your anecdote about saying at the stand up each day you're a little closer for an extended amount of time. And it was genuinely a productive task, not only in the context of the entire time box, but also due to providing the reusability of the service level. Only, project management didn't see it that way.
Additionally, and tangentially, what's productive for YOU and YOUR career often does not align with what's productive for the company. In past projects, I've had scrum masters inform me that it doesn't matter how it's coded, as long as it works. Being handed those projects that "just work" leads me to believe otherwise, and to be blunt, it's not the way I want to work anyway; it replaces time and effort that could be spent improving my ability as a developer.
I was just thinking about this earlier though. I'm not sure where I heard this quote, but "An overnight transformation takes on average 5-10 years." That's how I view my development as a developer, personally. It's a process, and in the grand scheme of things, the current project means little. This is also quite freeing in a way; when everyone else is stressed out over completing their tasks before the end of the sprint, I find myself being able to enjoy the process. Banging my head against the next problem.
As jaded as it may make me sound, I've said above that the company likely doesn't value me to a level I find acceptable, so my priorities often lie on improving my ability as a developer. Ironically, the result is a mutually agreeable cooperation.
2 months ago i started coding js, i am in tough location now , anyway when i see there are many dumby did that before me its become my fuel , thank you teacher.
I actually like how you are trying to emulate RDJ's social presence/body language. Cringy!==true. I think it suits you. Good job bro!
Wow, this way of thinking is really going to reduce stress, frustration, and depression. Excellent video.
It was very useful for me MPJ, thank you. I am working on a research team, and one of things that we still have to learn is how to deal with/discover problems that has not solutions, or even should not be solved. And your video makes me feels that It's ok, that I have to fail sometimes until I learn how to do this right.
Feeling productive is nice - so be sceptical of it all the time. :D - so instead bang your head against hard problems until you realize it's too expensive to do that... hm..
MPJ root in cinematography is shown here. More like this one please.
I bang my head against problems every day as a UI developer. You speak the truth.
FFF? That's basically what I was saying when dealing with CORS issues yesterday.
Great advice. The only exception is static typing. It not only allows you to feel productive. It makes you productive. Use TypeScript or Flow.
I try to make it clear in the video, but I DON'T want to imply that static types is ALWAYS unproductive. Same thing with inbox zero. Static types might very well often be productive. What I'm saying is that it is a category of task that feels very productive in relation to how often it is productive.
Abdullah Sari are you trying to define many sub-types (aka inheritance hierarchies)? Other than that, I don't see how adding few needed type annotations can be a nuisance.
“A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.” Bruce Lee.
I was the person who just wants end success result but recent days I decide to think as like as you said. It's a really good way of thinking and it also solves some mental issues for me.
0 dislikes.
I fucking love the dev community.
I was unproductive today! ✋And it's okay
Sometimes I find that negative feelings of "not getting anywhere" can be so debilitating that I cannot even think in a way that allows me to move forward on a task. Being paralyzed in such a way really sucks!
Doing a little "low hanger" can boost my mood enough where I can then return to said onerous task and keep working on it.
That being said...
I DO like having the mindset of the PROCESS you are going through being the goal... not Problem SOLVING... but Problem INVESTIGATING (I like that better than banging against which feels negative to me).
But, at least when we are doing work for an employer or client, they are not judging us on our ability to bang our heads against a problem, but rather our SUCCESS at coming up with some promised DELIVERABLES! Ah, the (rather sucky sometimes) real world! :)
And, I have things that I want to DO. And actually research is not one of them. Perhaps if I can convince myself to change my mind on this, I would probably be a happier person. I do research as a Means to an end, not as an end in of itself.
I DO think that the tools we use, although to some extent, are improving... I think there are things which could be done to make software development tools and understanding the software we create with them less confusing.
It is comforting to see videos like this one and realize that the frustration and "unproductively" that comes along doesn't mean I'm a poser, or a loser in this field. Basically, I think what I'm saying is "I'm not alone." or that this happens to all programmers (even really good ones).
I'll end my ramble. :)
Thanks youtube algorithm and fun fun
I wish I was worthy of a boyfriend like this guy. .
I live in NYC a couple blocks away, I would've flipped if I saw you walking through Central Park recording this! Thanks for the great vid.
Side note: I wish UA-cam would add a mobile feature for those rewind 30s/fast forward 30s buttons that Netflix and Audible have. Now that I've been using those buttons I don't like going back to the tiny, finicky slider. Touch and precision actions don't go together well.
UA-cam seems to be strangely behind the curve on this.
UA-cam has had that feature for at least a year, they just haven't crammed another button for it in the interface - you double tap on the left and right on the video. It's harder to discover but much faster to use.
I would upvote this multiple times if I could. Really hits home.
Hey. Hey MPJ, thanks. Thanks for this. That's all :)
Years later, and your content is still my go-to. #comeback
amazing video, hope you're doing well
I think the worst problem with we, developers, is our pride
MPJ you're a fuckin' genius. You might actually be Jesus! Honestly, very good show. You are wise beyond you years. Keep Fun Fun Function going.
Holy crap, my head is huge now
Great episode! Sometimes I think being a mature developer means being mindful about the current task or frustration at hand and being able to pull yourself out of it and take a step back and analyze it. It seems like technical skills are just a relatively small part of being a qualifying developer, the major part is more about psychological matureness imho.
I think it's funny you mentioned the part about time boxing a problem. Having a max time limit that you dedicate to a problem , analyse how far you got, and is it worth it to carry on. Because I just started doing it this week. (which seemed like the first step in what you have been talking about)
The rest of the video all seemed to lead on, and expand on that which i found very helpful!
Very insightful and liberating. I'm so glad somebody finally phrased this. I've been viewing my job this way for years but I realized it's very important that the manager/client thinks about it the same way.
I used to have a great manager at my previous job who always appreciated my efforts even when they didn't end up in "success" (as long as I was documenting them). My current manager on the other hand tends to think in deliverables and I feel he always views my efforts as a waste if time unless they end up into something visible. After seeing this video, trusting your judgement, I feel more confident to have this conversation with him.
The problem with Inbox 0 is that your email inbox does not necessarily contain all the things you need to do. It's just a sub-list. Better to have a free-form to-do list, with your inbox as one of the items, to give you an overview.
I just walked through Central Park on those paths the other day. If I had seen you I would have ran up to you screaming like a fan girl, making your video production very unproductive.
haha you totally should have, it would have been a casey neistat moment
I bought a Nintendo Switch with the new Smash Bros after watching this...
because I watched this on public transport on my way to the store.
This is the kind of content that we as developer ought be watching/listening because tasks will always be there, we need to evolve professionally and personally, we have also a life, we know that we already know many things, so we know that almost anything we propose we can achieve.
Thanks P.J.!
Very nice video. Exactly what I needed to hear at this moment of my life. P.S.: you remind me a lot of Christoph Waltz
awww thanks, I love Christoph Waltz!
Wow, such an interesting topic and point of view. The tricky thing is that both some productive and some unproductive activities rewards you with this dopamine feeling. Thinking of refactoring, code splitting, adding abstraction layers, conforming to linting rules.
All this things can be productive or not, it depends on the specific context but the reward, in terms of how you feel, will be always similar.
It comes to my mind the adv from monday.com, am I the only one?
Thank you so much for this video.
Lovely episode MPJ. A question though: What if you don't feel that you're growing in your current work place based on how things are been done and other internal processes. What do you advice?
I'll have to come back to this video multiple times, but it does sound like it makes sense. Although there still is a place for clearly defined tasks, and rightfully so, it's pretty unrealistic to be able to pump out efficient, user-friendly programs in time spans as quick as we'd wish.
I... I really needed this. Thanks!
Todays sponsor is brilliant [period]
THIS is great work. Thank you for this video, thoroughly enjoyed it! Everything from the content to the setting, music, camera work and editing was top notch.
This is so common, I often try to cheer up my colleagues whenever I find them in such situations. Getting more experience helps a lot to deal with such feeling, most of the time they actually are doing a lot of useful stuff. Does helping people to bang against problems counts as being productive?:)
Professional headbanger. I like the sound of that. \m/ >_< \m/
Thank you dears - Mpj and Isa - from this lovely video, it is exactly I was needing to listen
Very important topic, thanks!
P.S.: With love from HolyJS, Russia
I love Stardue value =) especially fishing
fishing is amazing
Great video! I like the idea of loving the process and learning instead of the outcome so the next you will follow a better process or roll over steps faster because you know better