Apple’s Mac gaming strategy will FAIL unless they do this..
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
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Quick video about my current take on Apple's Mac gaming strategy and how they can turn this around.
Timestamps:
00:00 The problem with Mac gaming
01:25 PC gaming is better.. (Sponsor)
02:34 Chicken and egg situation
03:30 Hardware isn't the problem (Switch)
04:02 Why iPhone games don't get ported to Mac
04:57 What is Apple's Mac gaming strategy?
06:32 Why Apple's strategy isn't working
07:18 Mac similarities to Steam Deck and Proton
08:57 Apple are SO close
09:39 D3DMetal needs to be open sourced
11:24 Breaking the cycle
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Does 'jawa' mean island in Indonesia? I'm curious about the background behind the website name.😄
Wow a terrible take. The opensource doesn't need to access to internals of D3DMetal. Would love to see expanded license for including the library in ported games though.
Paying for games/sharing development is no different than Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft. Witch Apple needs to do more of.
And abandoning Metal is a stupid Idea. Apple dropped QuickDraw3D as their 3d API for OpenGL. That didn't; work out for them in the long run. Opensource/other corporate interest were adding buggy code that apple had to take extra tine to optimize which slowed the release of new versions of openGL on Mac or iOS. So Metal is a better path for them to unify their platforms.
I think apple's strategy is working well. There needs to be a steady stream of games being released over time for people to thing different about Mac Gaming. And to help that along Apple probably should invest in their own catalog of AA games that only can be found on their platforms.
Just like java
It'd be cool if you compared VM performance between Parallels and other options. For example UTM. It's a free open source option I'm sure many would indulge, if performance is comparable.
@@Scott-lc5kh Good idea, I did a video last year comparing UTM, VMware and Parallels.
I also hate how i have to buy separate versions of the same game i want to play on mac when i am on the field, that is why we have steam and cloud saves
I think the big difference between Valve’s Steam Deck and Apple is that Valve owns the most popular PC game distribution service with Steam. I don’t see Apple ever embracing Steam over its own App Store. Apple will continue to try to push full priced games through their App Store and gamers will never go for that. In my dreams, Apple would work with Valve to make a Steam OS experience that can run right on top of Mac OS instead of the lousy version of the Steam App for Mac and that would make it easier for developers to focus more on the Mac community. But again, I don’t see that ever happening.
Yes, Valve has its game store on PC because that is where the games come out.
Now Valve has that great popular store, but it did not have the operating system to be able to play them only from third parties (I'm talking about PC), and it also does not have the money that Apple has, Apple is infinitely superior, and I think that if Apple wanted, its store app store, it would be equally or more competitive with triple AAA games, but Apple has not been interested, I think it is partly because by accepting third-party triple AAA games, it would have to open its Mac and iPhone operating system more and that It is the opposite of Apple's philosophy
Apple killed the gaming with the move to kill 32bit. We lost paradox, blizzard,cdproject red. An Apple Change their MacOS ever year,that would hurt gamers
@@macgamer1973 It changes way less than Windows 10 has over the years. It may still be "Windows 10" but there have been multiple different Windows 10 "updates" where the core OS has been more different to the last than the original Windows 10 was to 8/8.1 . This is why Windows 10 as a perpetual version has been abandoned because it's a nightmare to support the "same OS" being multiple discrete and very different versions behind the scenes
Ich denk auch da Apple auf vollständige Perfekte Emulation setzten wird
We need Mac ports of games to be readily available on popular services like Steam and Epic Games Store, since we can actually buy games on sale on them, or play the Mac ports of games we previously purchased. Locking them behind Apple App Store's terrible regional pricing and lack of discounts is hurting Mac gaming much more than developers who deem the platform unworthy of their labor. I believe this is a more pressing matter.
For me, we'll know if Apple succeeded if Rockstar Games puts GTA VI into Mac as well. If they don't, then forget about it, they've missed the mark
Good point. I think the same
Are you kidding? It's far too late for this lol :D The game should have been developed with target platforms in mind from the get go.
well said. but still, im skeptical that apple would commit although apple has surprised us before with game changing stuff like apple silicon
Very cool to see that someone has the same take as I do, they are on the verge of becoming the next big thing in the gaming industry just because of how much reach reach they already have and with just a few tweaks they could make it way better, like you said
I see the only possible solution is for the apple to force all iOS game developers to allow user to run their game on Mac if they want their game to be in App Store at all. But no extra performance optimisation is required which makes the developer life a little bit easier. This is to prevent some game developers to intentionally stop Mac users from running their game when the game is technically compatible with Mac. If Mac gaming would ever become a thing, it should start from that. I know it’s hard for developers, but it’s a necessary move for user.
I'm pretty sure you can already run any iPad app you want on an Apple silicone Mac?
@@benammiswift Many apps prevent you from login to the service even when you can get the legit ipa file from somewhere. I managed to disable some apps' login function and test it offline, the app itself is "running", just the online service reject Mac platform from access data.
But IMO the problem is steam deck has chip which is AVX compatible (many games coming now require it, like returnal, last of us part 1, etc.) and ARM chips like M series do not have support for AVX in hardware. So unless Apple finds a way to emulate AVX like DX12, then it will be very bright for windows gaming emulation on macOS.
As Blender uses AVX, AVX2 and AVX-512 in the Cycles render engine, and runs natively on Apple Silicon really well, I'm pretty sure the M-series CPU's would not have a problem with this...
…he was talking about Apple’s dx 12 to metal translation through out the video, it already exists, not opened sourced, only crossover can sell it or developers can use it to run games but not selling them.
I was replying to @ayushs_2k4 about AVX...@@AaronFigFront
@@dastardlyexperiments Yes, but Rosetta doesn't have AVX compatibility. Games that use AVX require either a recompilation with AVX disabled, or a native port.
BG3 tell me I can’t run the game due my Mac Pro 2013 don’t have Avx 2. Well I can install the same game under windows. Guess what it run it. It Apple that make it hard on gaming
I definitely agree that they need to completely open up the porting toolkit.
If they were really serious about games on the Mac, they need to make Mac native and exclusive titles. Make several titles that are amazing and irresistible. Show us what a truly “made for Mac” game could look like if it’s made with Mac in mind before any other platform. Use them to show off all the bells and whistles in Metal and the M series chips.
With the Mac, they essentially have a console. It has a very set range of configurations. Make the base Mac mini the standard base for the games, with upgraded versions adding bells and whistles. $599 for a “console” that can also do all the things you need a traditional PC to do, while playing several amazing titles you can only get on the Mac, could be a winning strategy.
Apple is like covering every area by letting codeweavers and others with the possibility of using gptk if they want to and also having more native apple games, while on Linux steam tried to get native Linux games for their steam machine first and since that failed now they are trying (and winning) the layer translation route~
Apple’s not allowing games to be published for use with GPTK. It doesn’t look like they’re going the Proton route and there’s more issues to deal with. E.g. Valve works with publishers to get anti cheat working on Proton but Apple just doesn’t invest that kind of time nor do they have the clout for developers to even think about it. It goes to show, when Apple isn’t in a position to leverage others, they are straight up forgotten and they’re too arrogant to come with a strategy for that non-dominant position. They always act as an incumbent.
@@Freshbott2 sure is more of a "have fun codewesvers in dealing with gptk" but still codewesavers were not allowed to use gptk At first but now they can and thx to that now you can play a lot of dx12 games via crossover
@@Nsfwstar they were not allowed to
publish D3DMetal. That is still the case. You can check to install and compile it in your Crossover installation. D3DMetal is one component of GPTK. The other being CodeWeavers’ own implementation of Wine. Apple’s installation instructions even download it from Code Weaver’s themselves. So yes, Apple doesn’t *allow* it in the sense it’s not Apple’s to allow. It belongs to CodeWeavers. Apple hasn’t said anything to suggest that Apple created or modified WINE.
To add to that, D3DMetal is one tool in the belt. Parallels and CodeWeavers’ translation is vastly superior to Apple’s in terms of compatibility. It runs on x64 and Apple Silicon, on Intel iGPU and AMD. It runs DirectX 9, 10, 11 and I believe 12 apps. I think that speaks to Apple’s intentional. This is a tool for porting games, not translating published game libraries. What people do with it after that fact is up to them.
Hello Andrew. Do you have numbers to compare every gaming platforms? how many PC, mac, ps, xbox gamers playing BG3 may be?
Just getting Riot Games to port their games to be natively run on Mac would increase the popularity of gaming on Mac massively. Imagine being able to run all your League of Legends or Valorant matches on a Mac Mini. It uses less room, less power and is cheaper than most gaming PCs. That would be a great start if you ask me!
Yes you are so right, the same way Rosetta 2 provided a nice segway from x86 to ARM, Apple needs to create a Proton-like software that provides a nice segway from Windows+DirectX to Mac+Metal. This would gather so many new apple gamers, and then game developers would be more inclined to make native mac games!
Hey Andrew, which macbook specs is your personal model though?
The problem is apple is too arrogant to accept vulkan or even other apis. This doesnt work for small companies and it still cost companies money to port and support. They should be like steam with dedicated devs making proton packs or methods for people to play and not rely on all these messy hacks
Apple has Laptops, Desktops, Tablets, Phones, TV Boxes, Watches etc.....a whole ecosystem, it's in their best interest to have their own API that they control and can change/optimize at will, years in advance even....so it's not completely arrogance, some of it is because it's easier for them since they juggle way more consumer devices of varying types....than any other tech company.
for this reason apple is for a specific niche, but for gaming, is a waste @@kninezbanks
@@kninezbanks Apple does not have *more* consumer devices than every company i'm sorry lol.
Vulkan is the reason why Android gaming sucks.
they need to buy a game studio as well to make originals for mac
Please make a video on the new Asaahi Fedora.
Why doesn't Elden Ring work on my Macbook pro m1pro 16g? I have version 23.7.1, I tried D3D Metal and DXVK both with Msync and Esync, I tried all the combination between the 4 options but all of them says wine has some problem and the game won't open. The only combo that could open the game is D3D Metal + Msync, but it would not connect to my controller no matter through Crossover or Steam and it only supports offline mode.
2:35 that is exactly what I said all the time about the gaming in Mac when someone tell me why I used Mac for games. The problem in this moment is not the power with the hardware is the games available in the system, and we don’t have many options because the developers don’t ports games because is not enough gamers, but not enough gamers because is not enough games developed.
At least for me, the games I like to play is available native for the system and runs very well, is not any AAA games, but we have some games, I’m more casual gamer than hardcore gamer, just playing Sims, Minecraft, CitiesSkyline, and similar games.
But I know out there is some interesting games I would like to play and is not version for Mac, and maybe I have to get some basic PC just enough powerful to play those games.
@@Garrus-ub7mf That argument about that macs have very little ram is that of a lifetime, only Us we using mac and pc at the same time know that it is not the same to have a mac with 8 or 16 gb of ram to a pc with that same memory, the system works completely different.
I'm going to tell you about my personal experience when I was testing the mac mini m1, I got it only with 8gb of ram, it was the most basic just for testing.
For a while I was doing streaming on twitch with that mac and playing cities skyline, I have all the DLCs of the game and several mods for it, the system monitor shows me that only running the game is using 32 gb of memory.
But at the same time I am doing streaming with the OBS I have connected 2 monitors and besides I am recording one of the 2 screens, the one that has the game with the tools that the system brings to record screen.
If we take into account that the M1 is the first version of the new processors, the mac mini is the most basic model and the m1 is based on a processor used by the iPhone 12 with certain modifications, and even so it can do all that, I don't know where you tell me that they are not powerful enough, and taking note that they are not dedicated graphics as well you mention an RTX 4050.
i don't test the M3, I had the MacMini with the M1, and later I sold it to buy a MacStudio with M1 Max, and I don't have plans to change the mac is working very well.
@@Garrus-ub7mf I know what you said about hardcore gamers, they used the most powerful PC with 2 GPUs, but that sectors is not the majority of the gamers, is just a few ones, maybe only 5% of the gamers or less. Most of the PC gamers using laptops with no the 4050 or 4060, that ones are to new, they using 3050 or 3060 maybe another ones more simple GPUs, not everyone play games in 4K on 120fps or 240fps.
I think the strategy you're suggesting would be a good one. Financially speaking, AAA games are similar to large scale movies - easy hitting $200M in development costs, and potentially making over a billion in revenue if it's a huge hit. This budget is likely for PC/XBox and PS5 development only. If the game doesn't come close to breaking even, or only breaks even, then the likelihood of anyone seeing any kind of additional port is basically zero. Studios also have to make up for loses from a previously poor performing game if their current release is a hit, so even then the likelihood of a port could be years away if at all.
Anything to make development easier and less costly is going to be a win/win/win for Apple, game developers and the Mac user base. Once Apple has something equivalent to the Steam Deck, assuming the numbers are there to back up the costs, then they can push propriety development for Metal/native macOS games. It's a much longer road map to get native game development, and likely at a net loss in this department for Apple, but if they really want Mac gaming to become a reality I think it's the way to go.
I suspect I’m like many people. I have a Mac for daily use and a PC for gaming. It would be so much nicer to have one machine for both. Apple has largely solved the hardware problem (inadequate GPU power on pre M1 Macs), now they need to solve the software problem. Apple clearly has some of the best coders in the industry but has not unleashed their potential or made the necessary investments to make gaming attractive. I think your open source suggestion just might work.
Actually even the performance is still a big question, the base M1 barely handles anything made from 2015 and up at 1080p. The GPU on the M3 Max is comparable to RTX 3060, and it costs $4000+ while RTX 3060 laptops cost around $1000, they need to fix that as well...
Great video! We need further support for the open source community!
Even if you're playing on a Mac via crossover so for stats you're a Windows player, which is why the developers see that macOS players are only around 1%. It's sad that Valve doesn't release their games on macOS and never bothered to update their old games to 64-bit, despite a few people with stolen Source engine code being able to do so. Vavle worked with Apple and even Steam VR existed in the macOS High Sierra era as well as Proton which now powers Steam Deck was in version 3.7 on macOS. It would be nice if Steam, like Heroic, would at least allow for CrossOver connectivity if they don't want to develop Proton anymore.
Wine anti-cheat support is necessary too.
Question not related to this video: Is anyone here able to run the new prince of Persia game (demo version) on crossover? I tried but it does not work…
Also, something I've seen quite a lot from the indie devs is that they don't want to buy Macs and sign up for Apple Developer Program just for the port, and you NEED to do those to test and notarize the app. Currently it's not worth it for a lot of them since not many people will buy games on macOS, but if the efforts are reduced and player base gets bigger, it might be much more viable for them to port their games.
This has got to be a problem only for the smallest of developers. A couple thousands dollars is nothing for an average studio.
@@ErnieZee Yup but a lot of indie games are absolutely brilliant and I hope they can port their game more easily.
Apple could make something like Valve with the Steamdeck and use proton and put their own DirectX, Vulkan and OpenGL to Metall translation and a X86 to Arm emulator with a focus on Gaming Performance (so sacrifices in accuracy and maybe for speed).
If apple also would make that opensource then would even valve integrate such a thing into the mac Steam Client where also EAC and Battleeye also can be supported on macs.
This is a very good video with a sound strategy. But I believe the main reason Apple is undecided here is that the market is moving to ARM based processors. This means that Apple will very likely experience to be the leading implementer of the new mainstream and new technologies like Metal could become standard over night. It might take a few years but things are already going the right way with a fully working Windows 11 for ARM running via Parallels. So let's see what happens as the whole market will have to unify all types of devices to run future games natively anyway.
Great video.
Just changed from a lenovo legion to a mac m3 max. Yeah, I knew what I was going for in terms of gaming =) And I really like the mac for everything.
But apple really should think about how to make a game on mac like steamdeck. CrossOver is very cool, but it has quite a lot of limitations right now. Especially not new games but old games.
I think you've got the positioning wrong of Mac > iOS devices. I think Apple's strategy is to get companies to port over their games to iPhone/iPad (since that's a significantly larger market). Then, since it's similar hardware, it can easily be ported to Mac. So if developers are spending $1M on Apple porting/development for the Mac, then makes sales of $300k, porting to Mac makes no sense. But if they're taking that same $1M, porting it to iOS & making back $3M (larger sales base) it's worth the time. Now, the dev could maybe say spend $100k to port it to the Mac, make back $200k (assuming same sales). In this second scenario it's like a "value add" to port it to the Mac & it make more sense for them, and Apple isn't missing an opportunity to sell games to Mac customers.
This argument does have the pitfall of universal purchases since Mac sales wouldn't be separate. Ultimately, I think the universal purchase option is going to be required for Apple to actually make sales to interested gamers.
Apple is accustomed to being late in issuing features, and this is the company's policy. Every year, it releases a feature for us in order to force us to buy its new products every year.
What game was Andrew playing at 1:09?
Besides all that, Arcade should be a standalone app, buying games on the AppStore sucks. Apple should also build a controller of their own, this would show some sort of commitment to gaming
Metal and the M series chips introduced the idea of high performance and low power. Not recognizing that and the impact it has on pretty much everything while complaining that it doesn’t or isn’t compatible with an existing/pre-existing technology is ... well we’ve heard of dinosaurs. The cycle of games on platforms is just that. A good case in point is the game Halo. Originally targeted on a Mac, was a web download for beta, then they were bought by Microsoft and became the exclusive game for xbox.
I’m pretty sure Mac Gaming has already failed. You can get a Xbox Series X for $350, and it comes with a 4x larger SSD than an entry level Mac. They should just partner with Valve to create the next generation Steam Deck with an M-series chip.
Nah that would be dumb
Apple is buying Steam.
Why don't games like rdr2 or f123 work on Mac using the latest version crossover?
I agree 100% with this take
The problem, from Apple’s perspective, is that if they open sourced the tools Steam would instantly own Mac gaming sales. They already have a store that lists proton compatibility, cloud saves etc that could be easily adapted for Mac . The only advantage Apple would have is if you bought games from the App Store that they’d run on iPhone and iPad, not insignificant but I guess with regulation potentially opening up apple devices to multiple app stores they see they could loose a huge amount of revenue to steam / not really benefit from the effort of making the game porting toolkit
Apple should hire you as a consultant for their gaming division
Does Jawa ship to Canada?
I really liked the video bro this is so true if apple open the source of metal would be nice to see people contributing to build a gaming ecosystem on mac and there's a lot of developers that codes under macs
Few steps that Apple needs to do to bring more games to their system:
- Cancel the notarization system and needful newest Mac for developers who want to bring their games on Mac.
- Redesign the AppStore gaming section and make it close to Steam with regional prices, communication, and discounts sections.
- Forget about blocking games from the iOS AppStore for Mac gamers.
- Populize cross-buy between iPhone, iPad, and Mac. (This is the kill-feature for most users who choose between iPhone + Mac and Android smartphone + Windows PC)
- Like Andrew said in the video, allow developers to use GPTK like a Proton. A lot of indies and unresourceful games work brilliantly without any optimizations using CrossOver even now.
Or
- Allow Valve to bring GPTK to Steam which will work like Proton.
Doesn't matter if there weren't enough Mac gamers in the past. Majority of college students in USA own a MacBook. Those are the target demographic to be purchasing games from the Mac App Store. Piracy on Mac isn't much of an issue as most people buy from App Store anyway.
I agree 100% with Andrew here.!!!!
I remember right up until the mid 2000's, there used to be a few companies out there like Aspyr, that all they did was port games to Mac. When all of that stopped, and since Devs really don't care about Mac gaming due to the lower player base, Mac gaming took a huge hit. Apple needs, 100% needs to drop something to the tune of 1 Billion on gaming. Either to get studios that just port up and running. Or to pay more companies to get their games to Mac.
They will never do open source
It wouldn't matter, the software is integrated into the hardware.
Great video. I like that we have a small selection of games on the Mac. Makes it easier to choose what to play.
To be honest, I bought a Macbook Air M1 because I thought iPhone/iPad applications could be used natively on a Macbook, but in reality many applications are not supported. I am disappointed and plan to return to a Windows laptop again even though the battery is not as good as on a MacBook.
It’s up to the developer to support mac not apple
even tho it is not a native support i would suggest playcover, which supports nearly all ios apps
Apple should embrace the "if you can't beat them then then join them" philosophy and invest in a decent compatibility layer. That, or implement Vulcan support so we can do that ourselves.
I use my m3 max and play Genshin on Playcover on max settings, life is good!
They'd be half way there if they weren't so insistent on not supporting Vulkan. Running Fedora Asahi Remix on this will ironically be much better at gaming once they add that.
@@Garrus-ub7mf They have speaker support for some models and partial GPU support already. Just an older version of OpenGL. They're working on Vulkan.
@@Garrus-ub7mf You can play some basic games there. I mean, assuming it's ARM. Unless you want to use something like Box64/Box86.
Unfortunately, its most likely the only real way forward. I say it that way because we would've hoped that the iPhone and iPad would bring more games to the Mac since they share the same hardware and underlying OS (mostly). So if you code for iOS/iPadOS you should be able to port that over to Mac OS fairly easily. But, they will not try that hard. So we have to get them over to the Mac the easiest way possible. And once they are on it and we Mac users purchase games. They will "then" develop natively for it. Apple has to mostly do the work for them or make the price of entry so low and even assist when needed to get a game over.
If Apple was to create a new business like Apple Gaming Studios. A porting company. They would work with all studio's to get games brought over. Even if that studio has zero Mac coding staff. They can support them for help or whatever they needed.
This strategy can work. There need to be more Mx Macs out there. Give it two more years. Each year adds 25 million more Macs. Soon there will be 125 million potential purchasers out there.
make whisky/crossover fsr3 mod tutorial please!
They don’t need to do anything different. Powerful enough A series silicon will draw devs to the broader platform through market share alone. Imagine a world with a single device that 98% of the time sits in your pocket, and then connect via a single cable to a tv as a console. Imagine a steam style interface thanks to 3rd party stores. Console controller to play. All with metalfx. I’d bet this is their strategy
Power alone won't solve the problem. This video gives many valid points.
Power alone will indeed bring developers, along with a market to sell the games. Think Blackberry. How did their strategy work out against the iPhone?
@@tonyburzio4107 I can't agree. You need to break the ice at first. Macs are very powerful machines since Apple Silicon but there's no financial motivation to bring PC games to the platform because there's no market. Power is brute force in here if we are talking about non native ports. A breakthrough is needed to reduce performance gap between Windows and MacOS running non native PC games. Because even when you improve the silicon, game requirements can only increase over time. The most plausible way to catch up and break the ice for developers I think is to thin out the gap.
@@zero2006xl you only have to have a bigger market share of competent devices than consoles…
@@tonyburzio4107 It's pointless as iPhone kept suffering from throttling.
Universal Play would be Apple’s USP over its competition. Buying a game for Mac and knowing it will also run on iPad and iPhone makes me more likely to buy that version. Especially if they beef up Apple TV so it can work there also.
I think users with long history of using apple devices may understand that, apple always try making their own eco-system and limit developers and users on their system. So for apple perhaps their highest priority is to build up apple arcade or selling big games on appstore. Apple may not want to see games for apple soc are sold on other platforms like Steam. Meanwhile, developers prefer releasing their games on popular and mature platforms like Steam. Probably this is one of the biggest hurdle for game development on mac.
Word. 👏👏👏
Apple should hire you and make you run their 'game-strategy-division'.
There is a way to solve all of this: Make or bring Mac only games.
Since Apple have their own TV series, why not for game? Beside, Game market is several times bigger than Movie/Drama market. If they cant do that, then they could bring Nintendo games to Mac by making a deal with them.
Otherwise, there is no way that Mac can be good on game.
Mac doesn’t need exclusives. It won’t help when the largest barrier is the price
@@crestofhonor2349 And yet, iOS/iPadOS has exclusives games via Arcade despite how expensive iPhone and iPad are.
I don't buy Mac computers purely for gaming, I use it for graphic design and digital arts. Even so, I LOVE video gaming and would try to game out on Mac whenever I can, so yeah it is frustrating trying play some of greatest games ever on my Mac, be it on old Intel or new Silicon platforms. And I agree with much of your opinions that Apple needs to shift their strategy to make gaming on Mac more viable comparable to Valve's huge success with Steam Deck. I also agree that Apple wouldn't want to leave iPhone and iPad's marketplace behind, so I think there should be an app or platform or system that all iPhone, iPad, and Mac can use similar to how Steam Deck utilized its Photon. This could be the best way to bring gaming to already-robust Apple's ecosystem.
While not the same issue, honestly if nintendo would partner or get m series chips in the switch, things would change rapidly.
Pretty sure performance to watts, m chips beat out anything on the market. Its just a matter of optimizing for it. And the fact that the graphics chip in switch is weak in comparison to the rest of the game industry, making quality switch ports is not lucrative.
But if the hardware used was both powerful and the base resource would be applicable to mac/ios platforms-thered be a large boom in quality games for both parties because the effort involved would serve a much greater audience/return on investment.
i think apple is just setting up for gaming on their AR/VR headset. I mean all of the things theyve done recently for gaming are going toward exactly like a steam deck but the apple always want that stickiness aka both software and hardware. software (the game) they don't have much control other than the platform but hardware wise, they will have a say next year in their headset.
The best solution for Mac Gaming is not Crossover or Parallels. It's GeforceNOW Game Streaming. I play every game from my existing Steam or Epic library on Macbook Pro M1 at highest settings. The fans don't even kick in. It costs 10 bucks a months. For this price i save on expensive gaming hardware and energy costs.
Honestly, I don't see how mac can be the common choice for gaming even after gptk released. Some games need complicated work around to play on apple silicone compared to intel mac with windows installed. Not to mention there's no egpu support on apple silicone macs. Most people just want to play their favorite tittles without hassle. Apple should start promoting macs' capability to play titles with most daily players like pubg, valorant, roblox, minecraft, etc. that's how i even bought ipad mini, it was simply for easily playing genshin impact everywhere without fear of overheating issue
So, when is assassin's Creed mirage coming to Mac 0:10
I think not being able to play games on my Mac does have good benefits, for example, better use of my time to do creative things;
I think Apple’s “Metal-only” stance puts off quite a few developers that would gladly use Vulkan/OpenGL. Many on the Windows side hate Microsoft’s ‘bullying’ to use DirectX, but at least Microsoft hasn’t tried to prevent use of other APIs. And that goes to a bigger issue of many devs being put off by Apple’s more general ‘closed’ environment stance, not just with Metal.
Mac App Store download throughput is shit too as it takes several days to download RE4 Remake if it even completes at all.
If Apple allows dgpu support or even made their own dgpu, then maybe this would f be an issue.
GeForce now is pretty good on macOS if you have a good internet connection
1. From a value standpoint: the M-Plattform just isn’t in the price range for serious gaming, that is if compared to PC.
Currently you need a Pro or Max Chip to play somewhere near 60fps at reasonable resolution and details; setting you back $2000 to $3000 dollars, compared to a $500 PC gaming rig.
2. Apple’s obsession with Metal is not really attractive to developers and an abstraction layer will only get you that far. It is not justifiable that they don’t open up to Vulkan as an open industry standard.
3. Small user base: they don’t have as many installs as the pc user base does. Also one must account that most Mac users use/buy a base model machine, which will currently put you closer to 30fps gaming with some kind of temporal reconstruction, when you are looking at current triple A titles. Again unattractive to developers, since the required labor/effort making their titles work isn’t worth the foreseeable turnover/profit.
It seems to me that apple just needs to do everything for valve to make proton for mac os, including making patches for wine. On steam deck it just works, on mac os it can also be :)
Apple needs to talk with Valve. The big difference between Valve and Apple is Valve already has a massive store filled with every game a gamer would want. Valve makes 30 percent off sales in there store. If Apple opens up there game porting toolkit they lose the store market share. They want to sell you games through there store so they can take that 30 percent. They would have to open up the porting tool kit then modify there store to increase profit margins to motivate developers to bring there games to the Mac. But entering that rat race against valve is too little too late. If you take greed out of the equation Apple should simply open their porting tool kit and let the community run wild and giving developers the lime light of what amazing things they pave accomplished to bring REAL gaming on the Mac.
"Like" + 10 minutes of applause 🙂
I fully agree with everything said, however even though this would bring a net benefit back to owning a Mac I think Apple still want their 30 % cut of buying games for the first or second time on a different platform.
It's so cute that theres an entire community that still believes Apple is actually interested in Mac gaming.
I enjoy seeing what runs on my Mac and seeing where Apple moves but they make their money on the Mobile side. That's where their focus is.
They have zero motivation to put in any more than the bare minimum to sell higher end Macs. They did this back when they announced iMac Pro and have been doing it every year since. They tell gamers that they have some old Windows games coming to Mac > they show it running > they tell people to buy higher end Macs 'games are definitely coming!!' > Repeat.
They only care about games on mobile, selling higher end Mac devices through hype that never materializes.
I just sold my mbp m3 pro .. too late for me and im not going back
So sad to be you, bruh.
Just imagine buying a MacBook for gaming purposes. IQ -200.
w move if you are a gamer
@@shivamguchhait Not just gamers. Everyone who doesn't want to spend huge amounts of money on decent disk space and RAM. And values backwards compatability. While AMD and Intel might not be there just yet, their newest generation of processors are just good enough for most people. No need to throw insane amount of money at Apple. And if you really need a powerful machine than please get a desktop PC by all means. This will destroy anything Apple has to offer by a long shot.
@@woeye3251And for the rest of us who have the budget, don’t just play games all day and value the Mac experience, well… we can stay exactly where we are :)
1:01 top ten anime betrayal.
I come from the mop fix video.
The last few minutes of the video highlight the dilemma. If Apple changes GPTK to a graphics runtime environment then no developer will bother to optimise titles and Macs will be an expensive, under-performer also failing to capture any marketshare or provide worthwhile return for developers.
The current strategy of teasing developers to a unified AppleOS gaming platform must be given time to work or they'll end up with Steam Deck which, whilst apparently successful, is a completely disposable platform. Apple needs to make developers dependent on Apple Silicon/macOS/iOS/iPadOS for a decent slice of their revenues. The hardware is there, the software APIs are ready but Arcade needs to mature to add the commercial sauce & fix what's broken with the gaming market - hobbyism.
Always enjoy your reporting and input on this subject - maybe Apple is watching your channel??? 😃 You never know...
Apple needs a few first party game studios. They could easily just buy them or develop them in house. Relying on porting games will always leave you as a second class citizen in the gaming community. Apple needs original AAA content.
Many software engineers with 6-7fig salaries use mac because of its stable UNIX core. Wouldn't that demographic bite?
The solution to chicken and egg problem is porting gta vi prior on mac. BAM 💥
Running ads for your time! Many thanks for putting more time into apple gaming than apple.
Microsoft has to get their work done with ARM On Windows
yup right now they suck really bad with arm can barely even play a crappy game
Haha, then how u will sell STANDALONE MAC version of game, once more, for full+ price?
i recently sold my mac m1pro, if apple implements all of the points made in this video, well, i’m getting a new macbook.
Try to think of this. Genshin impact is really hot. Meanwhile the iOS version is more advanced than the android version including 120FPS. iOS version can be very easily expanded to be a mac version now. In fact I am using Playcover to run iOS version in 120FPS on M2 Max. Why Mihayo still don’t launch the mac version?
What Apple needs is features that are unique to Apple that gives them an advantage.
Simply porting over to MacOS will just open to apples to apples comparison and you can never compete with pc performance over decades of experience in driver optimizations
Apple is playing catchup and will take time.
Steamdeck is on a handheld. People care less about visual quality since the screen is quite small.
Apple have iPad, macOS ecosystem and people will care about visual quality like those found on PCs
Apple had to make the game console better than the PS5 and Xbox Series X, and to make a subscription system like Game Pass sell for a small margin, game developers would be happy to put games into Apple's system OS.
For a "emulation" approach I think Apple should give Valve a big bag of money and have D3DMetal integrated into Proton. That would instantly bring an enormous library of games to the Mac. Now, Apple will never do that because it takes power away from the App Store (although that is a lost battle already anyways).
What Apple is clearly trying to do, and will solidify in the next generations, is merge the market for iOS and macOS. iOS, unlike macOS, is a huge target and will probably have publishers salivating over the possibility of releasing for iOS. For those sort of big markets, developers are absolutely willing to do the hard work of doing a real port. Now, this strategy has the fatal flaw of requiring devs to explicitly allow iOS apps to run on macOS, developers might choose to just ban macOS to save some QA cost. Apple should enforce macOS compatibility as well if they want Mac to be able to play games.
I agree that open-sourcing D3DMetal would hugely benefit mac gaming, but to assume that developers would bother to port their games to native ARM when D3DMetal exists is not a good assumption. Looking at Steam Deck, how many of Steam Deck Verified games have been ported natively to Linux? I don't think that number is large, and it won't ever be, Proton is way too good for devs to push native ports and Apple knows that. Sure, D3DMetal doesn't work on iPhones and iPads but who really cares about that segment? Desktop game developers don't give 2 shits about mobile, they'll happily use D3DMetal even if it means they won't be able to distribute their games on mobile platforms. Sure, some will bother with porting, but not everyone will be bothered.
Mac gaming will be a thing the day i can play my steam library there
dawg just give me Warhammer Darktide on MacOS...
Apple needs a Game Console like the XBox
I DO NOT want to game on a Windows PC. I have been gaming on a Mac since the 1980s.
I agree with the diagnosis but disagree with the conclusion. Macbook does not need to be Steam Deck. Yes the chicken and egg problem sucks. But paying 3600 bucks to run translation layers upon translation layers sucks too, it undermines the distinctive efficiency of Apple Silicon (which is its whole purpose of existence in the first place) and it introduces points where bugs can happen when running a game. The ecosystem is getting better for the native game audiences, just give it time and resources and the chicken and egg problem will gradually diminish.
I would like to be wrong, but Apple will not do something like Proton. Apple wants to see itself as a company where everything works perfectly. Unfortunately, any "MacProton" will not perform as well as a game specifically made for Mac.
“Needs to found a way to bring big tipple A games “ precedes to show GTA VI 💀💀💀 bro 💀💔