Bobbling Hammer Yamaha C5
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- This week I'm at the New World Symphony on Miami Beach. It's a short video talking about the typically confounding bobbling hammer and the regulation conditions that brought about this particular case.
#yamahapiano #yamahac5 #newworldsymphony #regulation #bobblinghammer #pianotechnician #pianotuner
I am confused at strengthening the spring as a way to decrease the bobbling. The jack is pushing up the hammer and I would think the rep lever is just along for the ride. I think the double strike or bouncing can only be caused by two things, the knuckle bouncing on the jack after let-off because of not enough aftertouch or the knuckle bouncing off the rep lever. So to me it's an issue of sure checking, and if the note is played softer than the hammer can check than it's an issue of drop, let-off and full escapement. But maybe there's something I haven't thought of. I really appreciate your work that I have seen so far and mean absolutely no harsh criticism. Anyone who does that has never had to try and resolve double striking before!
Thanks for taking the time to comment. You're right in that the spring doesn't directly cause bobbling. In this video I was really just trying to show that several issues caused the bobbling. In this case it was the knuckle bouncing off the rep lever which was ultimately caused by a regulation setup for a weak spring. Instead of tightening the spring it seems that the jack was lowered in the rep window which in turn causes the drop to be too high. Additionally the back check was also raised to compensate. The rep spring really is king.
@@the_daily_ping yeah, that makes total sense to me.
Nice video! Really shows the cyclical nature of regulation.
Thanks for the comment! Cyclical is right! It seems that everything in pianos is like that from tuning to voicing.
Unfortunately with Climate Change, these problems will occur more frequently and with greater severity. It is something technicians need to be acquainted with.
Wow, I’d never thought about that. That’s an excellent point.
You seem lost. Your adjustments are not working. Checking should be same height for all hammers. If you increase spring strength that will worsen the non checking. You need to check aftertouch, maybe increase it and lightly roughen the tail with a checkering file. Making it set off earlier is not the right way to go about it either
I appreciate your insight. However I do not subscribe to roughening hammer tails. Also, tightening tbe spring will not worsen hammer checking if it and the checking are reasonable. However, these kinds of things are very situational. Ive noticed that in a lot of cases the underlying issue can be things like the friction of the bushing. If you can get the bobbling to stop with files or regulation then you have won the day. Thanks so much for your input on the subject. I feel that it’s important to get differing views to make sure that I’m not living in a bubble.
@the_daily_ping spring tension should be "minimal ", just enough to lift the hammer..
@@beethovensg Wrong in so many ways. But thanks for watching.
The rep springs should cause the hammers to rise "as if the CEO has just walked into the office" is how I was taught.
I hate for them to be so strong that they have a "kick-back" that can be felt
I, for one, am quite thankful for this video. This topic is not covered quite as extensively as the many other piano technology topics that one can learn about on UA-cam. On my piano, which is a new Yamaha C7x, if I am playing a very soft passage and my touch is ever so light, often a hammer will "bobble" and play the note twice. It had me even questioning my relaxation in my technique. Was I nervous and were my finger unsteady? No.....I don't think that's it. I too have been thinking: is it the repetition spring? Is it to strong? Is it too weak? When testing by playing a note, having it go into check, and then lightly pressing the key so the hammer rises from its position in check.....what should that look like? How fast should it go up? This video really was well explained and I now have a much better idea of the elements involved as well as what the movement in the action looks like. Thanks Daily Ping!
I so glad this video helped you! There are definitely piano tech topics that just don't get discussed much. You can check my "Let It All Sync In" video that discusses the function of Drop which is a severely underrated aspect of action design. Thanks for the comment.
Hello, did you ever solve the bobbling problem?
C5 from the studio of Michael Tilson Thomas 🎹
That’s the one. That’s been a really solid piano. I was surprised to see some bobbling going on.
It seems the drop screw was a little too tight
You’re right. There was quite a few things going wrong there. The whole action is in need of some fine regulation. It’s in a tough room too. It gets the sun every morning and then has the A/C blasting on it. Fortunately it’s not used for anything really critical.
@@the_daily_pingthat's just one sad piano. Personally i refuse to work on pianos that has direct sun light on it. Especially if the piano is played by multiple people, like in schools.
Last thing i need is to hear that i took money and didn't do the job or did it poorly, just because someone didn't used window shades.
The last sentence about regulation is voicing.. i would not call it that. Regulation has impact on the sound undoubtedly. Angle and power of hammer strike changes the tone. I would just reserve the Voicing for work on the hammers and strings.
@@Tomáš_Nithrania Yea, I don’t usually conflate those two things in conversation because they do imply two very different processes. But we’re all techs here so “Everything is voicing!” 🤣
Perfect spring tension . Just enough to rise.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Read a book.
@the_daily_ping you , my good man need some realization. Enough from the peanut gallery.
@@beethovensgyou’re right, he’s wrong. He doesn’t have a good grasp on regulation unfortunately. Most techs don’t.
The repetition spring needs to be just strong enough to hold up the hammer. Any extra, is just a safety buffer. Ideally you want it barely holding up the hammer. It doesn’t actually need to pop up from the back check.
The name repetition spring is extremely misleading. Tight repetition spring doesn’t speed up repetition. High back checking does!
Also for back check, it’s not “I like it half way”. It should be “as high as possible without rubbing during fffff blows”
The double strike is because of not enough after touch and or drop is not enough, and too tight repetition springs.
@@FlyWithNoam 100%