Dead Audi S5! Should be an Easy Fix BUT it's NOT!
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2024
- This 2008 Audi S5 comes into my shop with a no start issue. Customer thinks the fuel pump is having issues. This is one of those cases where the repair seems so straight forward, and then it's NOT! ➡️ Don't forget to check out @MrsWizardsWays
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#carrepair #carwizard #carmechanic #autorepairshop #automobile #cars #car #audi #audis5 #fuelpump #nostart #carproblems - Авто та транспорт
Now that ladies and gentlemen is what you call Real Mechanic and not a parts changer!!! You guys are far and few in between and that’s a fact! Thanks for your great Wisdom it’s greatly appreciated!!!
If everyone had access to this quality service, they would keep their cars 10 years longer. I gave up and bought a Tesla Model 3, haven't looked back.
@@antoinepageau8336 My condolences. I completely agree with you that in a perfect world, Wizard would be everyone's local tech/mechanic/wrench.
Qqqqqqq@@antoinepageau8336
@@antoinepageau8336Tesla does require maintenance. And it is on par with premium cars 🙄🙄🙄.
Those 100 buck per year estimates are just obviously bought just like twitter dik.
Especially with that build quality uh...
David, that is a Lupolen tank, produced under license from DuPont. These were first installed on the Porsche 928 back in 1978, and they have a sterling record. They are very tough and it takes a blow torch to actually cause the plastic to melt. But these tanks can take take a lot of damage from sharp metal in an accident and NOT leak. They are WAY better than a metal tank, since they bend tremendously rather than steel, which just punctures.
Porsche used these because they designed the 928 and had it's production line set up. Then during crash testing it was found that this car was VERY susceptible to fuel leaks in a rear impact; This very serious problem literally threatened the whole program.
Porsche found that simply changing the tank from steel to this very strong but flexible material solved the problem completely.
These tanks are superior and why metal tanks exist anymore is a mystery to me-
Great video!
Fascinating to learn this as a 928 owner!
@@Bubblun1 I owned a 928 for 19 years. Go to the back of your car and look under the license plate; You will see the "harness" plate that covers the fuel pump/filter assembly. The black plastic blob that they are attached to is the tank.
If you have the book "Project 928", between pages 144 and 147 can actually see the pictures of the crash test with the metal tank and gasoline (water, actually) spraying when it was punctured.
Don't believe there are many new cars (if any) with steel fuel tanks.
@@georgebettiol8338 Most cars still have this. Watch CarWizards videos you will see him knock on the metal tank from time to time. I think metal Is way cheaper than Lupolen....
Plastic tanks don’t seem to rust much either.
I fix industrial machinery for a living. It's shocking how many times 1 electrical component has failed, causing another component further down the line to fail. I see it FREQUENTLY.
LOL shocking how electrical components fail, good one.
The failure is by design
When I worked at BMW for 5 years, when we got a car that had a faulty fuel pump, we would always give the customer an estimate to replace the fuel pump control module in conjunction with the pump. Often times, just like what happened in this video, the pump would draw so much electrical current that it would internally damage the module as well.
Most repair shops replace the fuel pump relay/module when the pump fails, for the precise reason that you detailed. Probably a good idea.
Yep, every junior mechanic knows to replace both items when the pump has failed and especially when it's drawn enough current to blow the fuse. Sometimes the module does not fail - I experienced that in my 2010 Polo GTI. Pump inlet blocked with grit but motor not seized, so the module survived.
I had an 2007 S6 5.2 V10. It was a money pit. Ate coils for breakfast. Engine out for everything but an oil change.
My sending unit on my old truck went bad and I decided since it’s 28 years old I should check the tank. Opened it up and saw the tank was good, but the fuel lines were bad going to the tank. It has sat for almost 2 weeks because a fuel line got lost in shipping.
It isn’t always a simple fix…. I understand the frustration of the client, but I completely understand your end of it also. This video is a good example of what can extend a repair with unforeseen complications.
Fuel pump control modules are known to give out on vw/audi models that year. VW issued multiple revisions and even added heat sinks to help with the cooling.
setting expectations and communication with clients is the absolute best way to retain them.
Years ago I read a report on Cadillac's, I think, that had stalling problems once the engine was warmed up. Ends up an owners survey was taken and they found out the majority of owners drove their cars almost to that gas empty mark. The in tank fuel pumps are cooled by the gas around the pumps and with little gas the fuel pumps run hotter which caused the pumps to fail earlier the report summarized. Because of that survey I hardly ever let my fuel tank get below 1/2 empty. I buy high mileage luxury cars, keep them for about 3 years or so and sell them for about 1/2 of what I paid. I've been doing this for over 30 years until obama started the cash for clunkers scheme. No more high mileage luxury cars now. I also had an 82 Lincoln Town car (beautiful) and it would stop in traffic, on the side of the road, in driveways - anywhere. After about $800 in towing bills and $500 or so of service to the Lincoln dealer with no resolve I eventually called up the Lincoln service manager and told him they could have the car after I told him the one year story of engine shutting down problems. He said "Did you change the power up relay to the fuel pump" in which I had not. He says $11.47 for for each relay which is mounted on top of the drivers side wheel well with his advice to also change the exact type relay which runs the main computer too. I got them, paid, installed and never had a problem while I had the car. Heat kills electrical and electronic things.
Anytime I see/hear of a fuse blowing after something else has failed, I always suspect the wiring loom. In this case, the control module for the fuel pump got hot, as did the connector in the old fuel pump. I would check every inch of wiring you can; there may be melted wire insulation that could create an intermittent fault. Rainman Ray’s Repairs (YT Channel) recently featured a repair video where an O2 sensor heater shorted, and kept blowing a 15A fuse, but only intermittently. Once Ray traced it back to a connector, he removed the old tape and - sure enough - there was melted wire insulation and you could see the bare, copper wire. Tapping on it just right would cause the short and blow the fuse…. and one of his meter test leads! That sucker was pulling north of 24 amps! HTH! 😊
We usually replace the Module along with the pump and also the wiring. Many an Audi tech has been burned just selling a pump. I’m so happy you made this video because it’s common across the line. Good repair Wizard!! Side note: I need that S5 as a donor for my V8 Q5 swap!! Tell the customer I want it! 😂
Just shows that having an analytical mind is required when dealing with these seemingly simple strait forward problems.
I have an '11 S5 with some sort of electrical gremlin. I bought it and it wouldn't start the next day. Took it to a local VW/Audi shop in Wichita. They had it a month, replaced the ECU and fixed some wires on the harness. Car started fine for a couple weeks, then no more communication with ECU again.. It's back at the same shop.. hopefully they can figure out the issue.. OR I might need to bring it to see you!
Like I've always said, you can buy a car from anywhere but finding an honest mechanic to work on it is the key to a happy motorist!
not just honest but competent and experienced!
I appreciate how you diagnosed the problem fully. Like you said, sometimes a problem is simple: replace the bad part. But other times there's a sequence of issues that needs to be looked at.
The fact that it didn't throw an error code indicating faulty fuel pressure sensor is a clear sign that the programmers who set thresholds and logic triggers for fuel system faults were on holiday when they should have been programming. If the engine is running ok based on oxygen sensor, manifold pressure, engine speed, ignition timing, fuel injector timing, and engine load data - then a low voltage reading from the fuel pressure sensor should immediately result in a faulty pressure sensor error code. If it doesn't, the programmers who mapped out the engine operating data statistics and error code triggers were clearly asleep at the switch. This is really substandard for a car that cost as much as this did when it was new and boasted advanced "German" technology.
These cars are very nice to own (lease!) new and then very unpleasant to try to maintain after that. No such thing as a cheap German car..
Brilliant deductions! And that last item, the power pin pushed out of the socket, I made that very mistake with one of my Mercedes. I was replacing front shocks on a CLK55, and had to remove some electrical modules out of the way. Somehow when replacing one of the plugs, this very thing happened. I could NOT figure out why the car wouldn't start and had to have it towed to my mechanic. I was embarrassed as all get out when he told me what the problem was!
Great video! Explaining how we techs think and know there can be more than the one obvious thing to fix AND explain it to the customer. Wonderful way to do business!! I wish I could bring my fleet of two to your shop. Just like going to the Dr for a check-up. Good Job both of you!!
Having worked in electronic repairs for over 50 years these sort of issues where you fear that you are
never going to fix it are all to common.
And as in this case.all it takes is one damaged connector to drive you insane.
Now that todays cars are stuffed full of connectors and modules a lot of cars will be scrapped as to
expensive to repair in a reasonable time.
What a great UA-cam channel Car Wizard is!
The more i hear and see the more ii love my buick 3.8 v6
Motors are invincible.. had one with 412k miles ran great up until was rear ended
Great content. This is why I love watching Ivan @ Pine Hollow Diagnostics, learn a lot from everyone.
Nice diagnostic work daniel-san, thank you car wizard for putting these informative videos out.
Wizard, you're like a Sherlock Holmes of car mechanics. Absolute masterclass.
Having access to wiring diagrams and parts locations in the vehicle makes troubleshooting a lot easier. As a DIY'ER reverse engineering an electrical system can take quite a bit of tyme.
Im not one to clean my engine bay much, but that guy needs to clean his engine bay lol
I cleaned it once on Mercedes e420. Despite wrapping any exposed wires, water still got around the spark plug seals and went way down in, shorting the plug against the block. It was a nightmare to find as it wasn't immediately apparent why it was running on 4 cyl...
@@aussie2uGA thats what Im scared of something like that happening
@@philb707 Get yourself dawn soap with water in a spray bottle and set of soft bristle brushes. Mist an area, brush it, dry it up with a towel, vacuum it. Don't let it get that bad.
@@bryangillis1839 Yeah that's how I do it as well. Pressure washing in combination with foam is easy and quick but can end up frying stuff
@@aussie2uGAYou should only ever wipe the engine down. Jetwashing/hosing is a terrible idea.
Story I heard from the motor trade here in England, Audi went to a new, cheaper supplier for the coils with LESS WINDINGS. A short time later Audis by the dozen were being towed to the dealers.
A classic German OEM 'bean-counter' led change that opts for a poor quality component. Sadly the engineers were directed to move aside.
Crap cars
I wonder if Hitachi, Nippon Denso or any other Japanese coil might be swappable with a "converter" connection pig tail for the input wiring?
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk Some of the bad VW Audi coils are Hitachi unfortunately. 😑
@@TassieLorenzo If Bosch and Hitachi cannot make reliable coils maybe the basic design specs are bad. It's a VAG problem.
Excellent video, Car Wizard! A great reminder for us to think outside the box more often and to show the customer why things can sometimes take so long!
I am a service manager ( former 40 yr ASE/Toyota MDT) at a used car retailer. A fix on an Audi inexpensive? WHAT? never!
You forgot to mention your age and what schooling you have and how much money you were making, what you ate for lunch etc...
and then you still end up with an audi, yuck.
I was an industrial mechanic for 25 years . We had a saying , we don’t want to make any worse than when we started . There were times that a piece of equipment would what we called snow ball on us !
Those darn Audis are at it again 😪
Use aftermarket, better coils and fuel pump. That’s what I did on my side jobs as a Audi/VW certified tech. Just be careful about the resistance of the coil packs themselves and make sure to add a fuse to the fuel pump if aftermarket. Put a fuse between the module and the pump. Use a lower amp rating/meet amp rating of aftermarket pump. And yes, I've seen them start fires.
---Another EDIT: I've seen plenty of all models/engines coming in with a tune and/or they took off the parts/tune and brought it to the dealer. The computer we use at the dealer can and will identify that a tune has ever been put on the car and/or if the ECU was replaced. It's like a black box.
You’re welcome for watching. Thanks for posting! Thumbs up man. 👍
Great job CW!
Every time I think about an out of warranty audi you come in clutch to remind me
I like your videos very much ! That's the kind of thinking we hope every repairman/technician would have! Thanks.
Great content Mr. and Mrs. Wizard!
Great video keep doing the good work and I’ll keep watching. Thank you again.
I love these cars. I would love to have one someday but the repair bill scares the crap out of me. 🤕
One day? used.?
just lease it, less pain.
Yep. Same. Found Tornado Red RS5. I repair my cars. Do not even want to think about with these Audi's. So just going to enjoy looking at it lol
I have a S5 with the 4.2. I keep up on oil changes. No problems with this car. Love this thing
I have has 2 RS5's....When you get near the 100K mark, seriously consider trading....Timing chain and guides are an engine out ordeal. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
@@johndandrea8034 An 80-90k car has expensive maintenance and I shouldn't own one without significant savings? Mind. Blown.
(B8.5 and B9 S4/A4/S4 owner)
@@tim3172what other car brand requires you to remove the engine to replace the timing chains? Remember this is a ‘maintenance’ item that may have to be replace multiple times through the vehicle’s life cycle.
@evildrizzt1 I loved my RS's but Audi put everything on the back side of engine that are maintenence items. I believe they actually rotated engine 180 degrees just to shift some weight towards the rear. Oil changes were Rediculous with 12 quarts of oil until I started evacuating the oil thru the tiny hole on side of engine where a dip stick "should" have been placed. I loved these cars but not for faint of heart on maintenance. Oh and brakes....OMG expensive on RS5
Exactly! Timing chain failure is not “maintenance”. It’s a brutal design flaw. Timing chain systems should last well into the 200k mile range.
This was a GOOD insightful video. I love the Audi videos.
Excellent video ! I liked they way your team problem solved the fuel issue :)
Yes, sir. Ive had a few of these types of things come up at a few dealerships i work at
Nicely done! Hoovies bill is always high!!!
Impressive competence.
Congratulations on a million subs!
Audi started the big front syndrome, the Chinese market demanded it. Oh yes VW coils, notorious in the UK.
The ignition coils in became a recall item here in the States. Volkswagen and Audi would only replace the coils ONE AT A TTIME
I really dislike the "big front" grille . Looks like a big vacuum cleaner.
@@Paul_Wetor very much hate the latest BMWs for that reason.
Many years ago around 2010 2012 VW had a recall for Coils in Germany... all Coils would be replaced for free... All FSI and TFSI Engines did fall under this recall on the Mk5 Golf and his brothers.
Wow!! First Flying Wheels and now Car Wizard. Broken down Audi’s are trying to take over the world…
good explanation
Tuning kind of voids your warranty when everything starts overheating and breaking.
Nice catch!
I pulled the tank out on my Caddy 1.6 Tdi van today to replace an intermittently failing pump. This video was useful. Thanks.
Danielson knocked it out of the park with this one, great technician.
Nice troubleshooting Danielson!
That was a great diag, Good job wizard.
Best episode ever.
Love this videos 🙏
Love the Saab on the lift in the background! ❤
Unlike the '94 Camaro and '97 Trans Am I had.. had to have a shop replace the Camaro's fuel pump cuz i couldn't do it, and years later a friend helped me do the "Trap Door Method" on the Trans Am
The Audi S5 is a nice vehicle. When the wrong people work on them then disaster strikes. Like your videos. Thumbs up
Thanks for the explanation here. So people won’t believe one issue equals three problems.
The Wizard stated that a 'tuner' was involved in the past. Needless to say, the said tuner didn't help the situation with his/her method of disconnecting wiring connectors.
@@georgebettiol8338 Yeah, the tune that happened any time in the last 12 years was definitely the cause.
Definitely.
Totally.
(Last MY for B8 S5 was 2012, 2013+ are B8.5 with the Supercharged V6.)
As a technician by trade. I dont work with cars for a living. I work with big machines, that make parts for cars. I can say your advice is 100% spot on. Anyone can turn a wrench. But how you think about the situation can make 10× the difference. Anyone can throw shit at something and hope it works. A true technician knows how to find root cause.
I have the exact same car! Love it even if the engine light is on once a month! 2010 6MT 150k km on it, same meteor grey, white leather but stock grill. all the options 😍 same style rims but black and got it for a steal. 🥰
Interesting facts in this Episode.
You guys are geniuses'🔥
I believe most direct injected engines have a PWM controlled in-tank pump.
I've certainly seen more (T)FSI/TSI VW/Audi engines with stalling problems due to the pump module rather than the pump itself.
On the rare occasion you encounter a dead in-tank pump, like what the Wizard has here, I would still recommend a new FPM anyway just because of how frequently I see them fail.
Good finds and info as ever, Wizard. Especially on the terminal for the high pressure fuel pump sensor.
Good video. Sometimes, the trouble code does not seem to be related to the failure. In the case of my 2015 Mazda 3, the transmission started acting strange and a transmission control unit low power code popped up. As it was under warranty, I had the battery checked. It was starting the car fine, but had developed an internal short. I put in a new battery and checked the voltage, both with the engine running and not running. The voltage did not change, indicating a charging system issue. The alternator system was bad. Not sure which occurred first, the battery or alternator. In any case, the alternator, etc. on the Mazda costs a lot more than the one on my old Mustang II. At least the battery was covered under warranty. The battery + alternator change fixed the issue. As to being bald, I have a cousin who lives in Kansas. Both her husband and son are bald. They blame the Kansas wind.
Used to have one these and was absolutely one of my favorite cars I ever owned besides nickel and diming everytime I drove it toward the end would buy another tomorrow
Had a 2016 Passat with a similar issue after purchase (30k miles). Would be driving and throttle would randomly tank, sometimes it would stall (tapping on the gas usually brought it back. It spent 3 months or so in and out of the dealer. At the end they had to re-run the entire wiring system for fuel pump as it had melted and then grounded out to the paneling as well as they replaced nearly every controller/relay in line
Hoovie caught a stray bullet here 😆
This is also a down side to tuning, your cool tuner might screw something else up, and might actually make diagnostics harder. My old Dodge pickup was tuned, my mechanic and dealer had it noted in the computer that it was tuned and wouldn’t touch it if I hadn’t turned the tuner off first.
Nice fix
The necessity of the price estimate cushion is due to what ive heard referred to as "found work"
Thanks Wizard. What's with the "orange dust" (rust? corrosion?) under the seat/just behind the fuel pump access? Anyway, you've fully convinced me to never, ever buy a European import - no matter how sharp or cool they look (and some of them do look very cool). Great episode.
I wonder if the inoperative low pressure signal pin is why the pump and module overheated? The pump may have been overworked trying to compensate by maintaining higher pressure than was needed. Over time it took its toll.
Need to replace those white clips for the seat bench 6:45
Is there any way to move that pressure regulator away from the fuel tank or maybe insert some heat shielding under it?
I always thought these were good-looking cars, but now I'd be a little afraid of it.
Thanks Wizzard 😊
I would say it was caused by the low pressure sensor not being connected fully.
Low pressure pump telling ecu that it needs more fuel constantly. causing the pump to run 100% constantly. Then overheats and cuts out. Then after doing this a few times the motor locks sending a surge frying the ecu and permanently welding the motor.
Good catch.
I was thinking the same, the price for a bad tune up job
I've moved payback up to x2. These videos are so much better now.
I do that on all videos. You can watch so many more videos 😂 I stick with x1.75
This model looks cool because it was designed by Walter De Silva, an Italian car designer who previously worked for Alfa Romeo before joining the VW Group around 2005 or so. He designed really cool cars for Alfa Romeo before being lured away to VW back in the day.
This is actually is favorite design of all the cars he was apart of. I believe he retired in 2015.
Couple more reasons for me to NEVER buy an Audi. Thanks! Lol!
I've seen the wires under the pins on the fuel pump where they connect are loose and failing. Crazy with it being in the tank. With this car best to change everything since one hot connection makes the current go up, arch, heat up everything and damage everything. Bad battery connections can damage an alternator's regulator for the same thing. Never can charge up a battery that is fully charged but sensed as needing a charge.
This is what real technicians do! A lot of places have people that don't troubleshoot like this. Analytical troubleshooting is science. Experience teaches you that certain actions done to a vehicle will leave an unintended consequence. The pump may have glitched during tuning and the tuner checked the pressure sensors to make sure that they were not failing. Someone was not careful with the connectors, and pushed a pin out while reconnecting one of them. Modern car problems. Good thing the wizard's crew are real techs.
Is that April's Grand National in the background?
You should rename yourself the Car Detective! Great video...
I asked my mechanic what brand of car he saw the most problems with, and he said, "Audi. You couldn't pay me to own one." One man's opinion.
As much as my BMW E46 is a pain in the ass, after watching your videos and Doughnut Media, I wouldn't touch an Audi with a 50 foot pole. Love the line from one of the mechanics, "They are not meant to be worked on"
I've driven both turbo 4 cylinder engines from BMW and Audi and I can confirm they're both terrible to live with past 100k. The BMW engines are most enjoyable as is the ZF 8 speed. I switched to Tesla model 3 since 2022, now at 150k and have had no problems, no repairs, no issues, just plug it in and drive it hard, cold or hot doesn't matter. Never going back to the Germans.
I owned 3 Audi's before my E46 (225 TT, B6 A4, C5 A6). After owning the BMW I said I would never go back to an Audi. Ive had 3 different BMW's since then and still have one. No Audi's though.
As an owner of both for years now. BMW is MUCH easier to fix and diagnose. But that only goes for the 6 cylinder engines I will not touch a v8
@@MigySaan Agree 100%
I had the fuel pump housing get so hot do to an electrical connector issue, that it actually burnt a hole in the top of the housing. 2015 Grand Caravan. I found the problem when diagnosing an evap leak with a fuel smell. We were very lucky it did not catch on fire.
Mr wizard. Our shop we go through what cause the part fail and why? Make sure go through system and investigate. Double check the parts make parts don’t get chain reaction.
There is another port on the sending unit. It's under that black cap piece and unused in this application.
Its a nice looking car.
That's why people overpay for these old cars. It's 16 years old. Parts are gonna fail.
An Audi is a good car as long as you don't have to pull the engine for a timing job.
Y'all are giving me nightmares.
Audi's are great, just don't drive them, no problems!
Intermittent fuel pump issues are such a pain to diagnose. I had issues with a fuel pump not priming when it was cold outside or it would take a very long time like 10 min plus. Tested pump, relays, all wires, and last link was a pcm itself. Modules/computers/etc do odd things when comprised. See a lot of hate on audis in the comments. They can be a pain to work on but they are not all bad cars by any means. Also, it's hard to not have a smile on your face driving a well built one (b5 s4). Lot of fun when they are running right lol.
What brand of coils have you found is a good replacement. I’ve used NGK brand coils and they were not cheap but I’m hoping they last longer than stock.
I'm in the exact situation right now with my 08 S5. My mechanic discovered oil in the water holder tank, its been in the shop for 2 weeks because it's been a chain reaction, finding bits faulty the deeper he goes to fix it. I still love it though, the joys of owning an Audi 😂😂
Sounds like a classic Audi PCV failure.
That was a good video.
We need your shop here in Mexico City.
Nice you are actually recognizing that you have some accountability when pricing a job and not just always blaming the customer.
I know my BMW has that module underneath the rear passenger seat armrest area. Not by the fuel tank!