WHAT HAPPENED TO JORDAN PETERSON!? Matt Dillahunty & Douglas Murray
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
- Full discussion here: • CAN ISLAM SAFELY COEXI...
#mattdillahunty #douglasmurray #jordanpeterson #jordanpetersondaily #jordanpetersonquotes #jordanpetersondebate #jordanpetersonshorts #jordanpetersoninterview #atheism #atheist #atheistviews #secularism #pangburn #pangburnphilosophy
Welcome to the Pangburn Universe, governed by the laws of good faith & helpfulness.
NEW EVENT! THE ANTISCIENCE OF GOD? Lawrence Krauss & Stephen Hicks ua-cam.com/video/extbcWCnhxU/v-deo.htmlsi=zbwVhOBBgwxLtB1e
@Pangburn thats each persons perogative.
As Jesus said a person by "his words will be condemned, and by his words he will be justified".
Matt with have no grounds for complaints then when he breaks hell wide open will he.
No doubt though, he will not be so cocky when he does.
Escaping Hell is a valid reason for being saved.
God is just, and hell is a just ends for those who choose the violation and condemnation of sin over the grace of Gods provision of salvation through Christ.
As a spiritual law, sin seperates from God.
Its not just like God says 'play by my rules or go to hell'
The law of sin means one is categorically unable to dwell with God. Hell is where one exists eternally without God. Without life, live nor light.
Its spiritual law, not spiritual simon says.
God I wish Peterson would have just stuck with psychology (pun intended). I genuinely enjoyed his lectures.
Me too, but I don’t hold it against him. He became both revered and vilified across the western world almost overnight. That would screw with anyone’s head.
Exactly
How is that a pun?
he was too over-invested in the validity of Jungian mysticism to ever contribute anything more to the field of psychology than post-hoc justifications for his emotional responses to things he didn't like
I think he is doing well, and should have kept it that way, he really helps boarding the horizon.
Jorden Peterson destroyed his reputation the minute he started talking about his religious beliefs.
Jordan used to be quite eloquent with this ideas but he has now gone so far down the 'rabbit hole' defending some of his ideas that he has lost his way completely. I am not sure he believes half the stuff he is saying or defending anymore, he just doesnt want to 'lose face' and admit he is wrong on a number of subjects
Eloquent? When? I remember when he was the college professor going viral on youtube. He was full of jibberish. An hour lecture would lose track of itself a million times. He just didn't have emotional outbursts.
He also is quite happy for the money to keep rolling in. 😮
@@hinduismwithpremananddasbhagat
Yup. Always full of BS
The love of money really does ruin everyone it seems. Even Peterson. Such shame a man would trade his intellect for the dollar.
For the record, I quit smoking without a mystical experience....
I did with one . I didn’t know it was a thing lol. Just happened
Same hah, meaning doesn’t necessitate the existence of magical entities. Smh
If you enjoyed this clip, please drop a like on the video and consider subscribing.
If you like having conversations about ideas, join us on discord: discord.gg/VDE2UMuW8y
Full discussion here: ua-cam.com/video/uCny7t5NrCg/v-deo.htmlsi=6vwX6Nz1q1DwRdvh
WE ARE COMING TO COLORADO! THE ANTISCIENCE OF GOD? Lawrence Krauss & Stephen Hicks
Nov 2nd - Boulder, Colorado
Tickets here: pang-burn.com/tickets
This event is set to challenge conventional perspectives, offering deep insights into the complex relationship between faith, reason, and the pursuit of knowledge.
The third rail is Con Men. I am so tired of the same old merry go round that treats religion like it isn't a con game run by con men who know god isn't real because they are con men.
I have never heard 1 person who says they live in reality address this basic issue because they want to what? Be nice to the con man on the panel?
It boggles my mind how atheists NEVER say to The Con Man/ "You are running a con game to find marks and sell them immortality like it's a paper clip."
Oh , you will say "ya, it's a con" and that's it.
I know every step to the con. Why it works because of the simple parts and the atheist panelists avoid like it will smite them.
"The Guy there? Next to me? On this panel? He is a con man."
Nope. Can never be said.
The result is the WORST THING ABOUT RELGION? ATHEIST PANELISTS AVOID! It is fucking bizarre.
Allowing con men to defraud marks because you won't fight crime on your own panels. Leaving criminals unchallenged to commit more crimes because you need the video makes my shake my head and wonder if my atheist brothers and sisters are cowards or like the extra $$$ they get from NOT challenging the criminal con man perpetrating fraud by selling ( for money and free labor) immortality which is not real.
Jordan is a crappy, shaky, not great at planning his con game CON MAN.
Every Cardinal in the Catholic Church? Non believing Con Man running a con selling immortality.
Sheesh. Save some poor saps.
Bro...I'm not even allowed to make a comment under this video. I can make replys but I can't make OPs. What do y'all think about that? If you ever even get this 😄
That latest video of Jordan ranting with Dawkins is so painful. His followers think he is being profound when he simply alludes to really, really old ideas (that any mildly educated person knows), when he tries to blur the lines between literary criticism and reality, when he floats Jung as if Jungian claims are a given. His laboring over the nonsense that the metaphorical dragon is really real...as a super metaphor...or whatever. The only thing a mildly skeptical person can come away with is that he REALLY REALLY likes Jung, archetypes, etc. But that's not an argument, that's not evidence, and ultimately that's not all that interesting or even remarkable. But he's riding that nonsense all the way to the bank.
Quite right. Out of his depth.
He wrote one good self help bs book and that's it. I think he knows absolutely nothing about eastern philosophy nor does he know anything about religion or god. He blabbers the most ridiculous bs with the biggest word possible and the whole western audience jerks off on him. He is not an intellectual or philosopher, he is just a good psychologist thats it.
Reality is reflected in stories both religious and secular. It's possible to find patterns and lessons and truths from those stories. The leap into something religious is what I can never grasp.
Freud and Jung were the two greatest pseudoscientists of the Twentieth Century.
@@nineteenninetyfive There is an impulse in many of us to want stories to be real. When we are young, and become transfixed by certain stories that are at least somewhat believable/realistic, our first question to an adult is "Is this a true story?" I think religion and religious stories ride that line. We want to find that "real toad" in the "imaginary garden", but we don't want the real toad to be "the friends we made along the way" or "don't lie or you'll end up like the boy who cried wolf". We want to hear a TRUE story where the MAGIC is real, where the extraordinary is real. You blur that line just a little bit, and you can squeeze out a much more compelling story than if you simply admit the story isn't literally true. The Coen brothers did this with Fargo (floating the idea that it was true, when indeed it was not), Blair Witch did this, that "Communion" book by novelist Whitley Strieber did this (where he claimed to have been abducted by aliens), "reality" tv does this, etc. I think what religion does is confuse the metaphor/symbol for the "deeper" reality, when ultimately doing this means the metaphor simply becomes a metaphor for itself--analogous to a circular argument, but in literary terms. I think this is indeed fascinating, but not for COMPLEXITY as Jordan floats, but for simplicity. Admitting that an individual's personal idea of "god" always reflects their own views on just about everything gives the whole game away. When have you ever met a religious person who disagrees with god on anything? Or if they do, they simply deny that god ever did X, Y, or Z, or claim THAT part is only a story, lol
truth is backed by facts; not faith or belief
What facts because many facts can or turn out to be wrong
@@jonpaulcox4954facts are supported by solid evidence, that which can be repeated and tested and is falsifiable.
@jonpaulcox4954 then they're not facts.
@@jonpaulcox4954 Independently verifiable and objectively observable facts
@@hobbes305 That's a scientific fact, we do not live our life by scientific fact, you already can't be 100 non-bias, you going to select facts and rank them, which really beg the question do you really live by fact? or there is something else at play here.
"You can't quit smoking without a mystical experience"
In the late 70s/early 80s my dad's parents both quit smoking COLD TURKEY when they were 50 cents a pack, because, "It's too goddamn expensive"
And he him self put him self in a comma to quit benzoes. I don't think a lot of mystical things happen when you are in a medically induced coma.
JP:s point was that you can't reliably stop smoking without a religious experience.
Congratulations to your dads parents who are in the 3-5% of people who quit smoking successfully cold turkey.
Something that has a 3-5% success rate, is not a reliable way to quit smoking.
I don't understand how many people are confused about this. JP did not say it is impossible to quit smoking without a religious experience, but that religious experience has the highest success rate in quitting smoking.
I quit last year smoked for 20 years, no mystical thing
@@k0lpA Congratulations for being in the (very rare, aka not reliable way to stop smoking) 3-5% of the people who succeed at quitting smoking cold turkey. If you had chosen a reliable method to stop smoking, a religious experience would have been the best choice. But since you quit, does not matter now. You chose a method with a very low success rate, aka not reliable way.
And JP was talking about the most reliable way to quit smoking being religious experience. So many people are confused about this simple issue, people today are horrible listeners.
@@vege4920 You are misrepresenting the statistics. 3-5% quit through cold turkey. That does not mean 95-97% quit with a religious experience. The vast majority (50-70%) quit with nicotine replacement therapy, and those with access to better medical treatment are significantly more successful in quitting than those without. Social support from family and peers significantly increases the chances. Well-trained medical staff can almost double the chances. A combination of nicotine replacement, access to better medical treatment, better trained medical staff, and a strong support network has the highest chance of success for quitting longer than 6 months. Moreover, that 3-5% is about attempts to quit, not quitting per se. A smoker may attempt to quit many times in their life, and with continued failure they lower the overall success rate.
I'll give you $1000 if you can prove religious experience has the highest success rate.
After all that bellyaching about “postmodernists”, turns out Peterson is one!
peterson is not a postmodernist because postmodernists say that all "stories" are equally valid while peterson says that some stories are absolutely better than others
@ stories mean whatever we want them to mean, THAT is what postmodernists say and so does Peterson. People disagree on which stories are better/worse but everyone knows it’s all make believe fantasy
Please correct me if I'm wrong:
Jordan Peterson adopts the Biblical narrative and the idea of God to better work with concepts that are not properly explainable in a scientifical or rational sense (meaning, value, art etc.) but that clearly have a significant impact on people. He conceptualized God in many ways that refer to the unexplainable nature of humankind, perception and the universe. This view greatly differs from the traditional and common doctrines and beliefs of Christianity.
Sam and Matt conceptualize God in the traditional way, referring to the many negative effects it has had on people.
They are not having the same conversation. They are talking and arguing about two different things with the same name. It makes absolutely no sense to have a debate this way.
Your last paragraph is my exact thoughts on conversations gone wrong. As is with Jordan Peterson and also I have witnessed it in life around people.
Our reality differ by what we experienced and what our life thought us. Just because we use the same words, it doesn't guarantee we mean the same thing. We add self-deception, and we can't even communicate our simplest ideas.
Peterson's convoluted statements on religion are aimed at obfuscating the truth. He is a non believer posing as a believer to rake up the big bucks on the conservative speaking circuit.
I belive JP is smart enough to understand what's the debate is about. He just don't want to admit it because he knows he will lose followers and people pay him on patron.
The problem is that Jordan's followers do not see the psychological "god"; instead, they see the god that fundamentalists and backward-oriented people perceive.
He got lost in his own word salad; and is still trying to find the way out.
He's tangled in a word spaghetti.
It depends upon what you mean by salad.
@@Conn30Mtenor I mean salad metaphorically and allegorically, maybe even metaphysically.
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification."
-Ayn Rand-
Still better than someone like Dillahuntly who says he wants to believe as many true things as possible without any sufficient definition of truth. If you have no metaphysical groundings, you cannot believe to be objectively right on metaphysical issues. Or you really want to tell me that you can show me some data claiming that (for example) tolerance is objectively true?
What happened is that he was isolated and shunned by liberal colleagues and counterparts and recluded to à conservative environment.. they also stole his profession of a lifetime in Canada.. so i think he was secluded into one bubble which doesnt allow for exposure of ideas from every side.. not his fault.. this was disgusting cancel culture in action in canada and in the liberal intellectual environment.. quite despicable
I remember being a little kid , maybe 6 or 7 , when I was put in Sunday school or something like that. I distinctly remember not believing a word of the religious teachings. In fact my mother still remembers me saying to her that what they were saying was stupid and I didn’t believe it. I’m now 65 and nothing has changed. The way I see it, and this might be a very simplistic outlook, but way back then when they were coming up with this stuff, those people were out of their damn minds. So violent, burning people alive who they looked at as heretics. All those ridiculous things they did to anyone who didn’t agree with them. These priests molesting children. I’m going to follow along with these lunatics and believe their crap? Forget that! I’m an Atheist and proud of it.
I'm kind of the same as you on the other side. I always remember believing in the existence of God and and I'm 50 now and this hasn't changed a bit. I also know of atheists who have done terrible things...... I also always thought that atheists were dumb... and this hasn't changed. So, we are kind of opposite.
I can relate to your comment. My parents were none practicing Catholics and therefore never talked about religion at home. Because of that I had my first experience of religious practice at five when I started school at the local Catholic denomination school. And same as you, I simply couldn't take anything the teachers told us in religious studies seriously. Oh, I played along - what else could I do as a kid? - went through the motions, learned the catechism, learned the prayers, learned the sign of the cross and the important stories in the Bible. But when I left school, that was it, fuk yu all I thought, I'm now free. I didn't know what an atheist was back then, but I had never-the-less become one and have never looked back. And I made sure that my kids didn't get indoctrinated, although I don't think any teacher would have managed that with those two.
Similar to me. Just moved away as I could not buy it and saw hypocrisy. My approach now is if it works for you goodo but don't force it on me or my kids thanks.
@@MSA-uj7cp I have a bridge to sell you. Honest, it's very very holy and was given to me by God. He told me the one who buys it off me will get his money back ten fold. Interested?
Keep on praying...
I agree what you say, but I would also add that those religious figures who sin are not the entire reflection of the core essence of religious dictrine that gave moral compass to so many and become redemption for those who went on the wrong path. We take what resonates with us and we leave the rest.
I find it ironic that these guys are constantly on about God and intellect and the greatest philosophers of God recommend two things to not become mired in the topic, it should be discussed if at all in few words, and never rely on the intellect to solve a problem concerning being. This is not an intellectual discussion it’s a discussion on being. It is the kind of discussion which led to a field called philosophy which is a fancy way of saying people love to argue so we better make a profession out of it.
The point of these discussions I do not see mentioned much is that these men disagree and there is an invisible skill of keeping these kinds of difficult conversations continuing despite the desire to shut them down. It is invaluable to see how those who disagree about truth which leads people not unlike them to brutality. It is good to see that they will take the role of not letting the emotions or self identity become too looming over the discussion and turn it in to a fist-less fight. It’s an art of relating. The compassion they show Jordan is probably more critical than the discussion. Because that shows me that they believe in something more than tasty word salads.
I know Peterson is very polarizing. I never had any issue with him but he's never made sense to me when he's pressed on anything. It seems he just tries to word-salad his way out of an argument to make it so vague and hard to interpret it makes him come off as intelligent...
I think the polarization may come from.the fact he genuinely used to be a pretty good speaker and has genuine qualification on certain subjects.. but a combination of medical issues and partisan politics/modern terminally online discourse and healthy dose of bitterness made him into a dark chaotic parody of himself, the other side of the same coin. So his statements now are contrast to his previous self
this
Dillahunty can't even tell us why Marquis De Sade's materialism isn't correct.
The garish dressing and exaggerated hand gesturing (sample a few of Jordan's recent podcast appearances) would suggest something is amiss. He also posts some seriously extreme & odd stuff on X that doesn't get repeated in UA-cam appearances.
You must be new here. He's been doing the "octopus playing a trombone" impression with his hands since his earliest lectures on youtube. He's a manic ex-benzo addict with no adults around to keep him on the straight 'n narrow.
Right! I also noticed that. He became more of a showman and he used to be a respectable lecturer and profesor. This 'fame' changed him and he got trapped in this new character
@@iza1405able Yes, pitfall of social media celebrity. A cautionary tale.
I think what is going on is he has realised that to maintain his lavish income he has to continue to evolve the character that is Jordan Peterson and he doesn’t care what it takes
I understand why some people may question what Jordan Peterson was saying, but please don't discredit the man's entire contribution to knowledge he passed on to the humanity. He is a flawed human being, just like all of us.
Jordan Peterson exhibits a profound understanding of psychology and the mechanisms by which religious beliefs shape human behavior and societal development. His intellectual depth suggests that he is too enlightened to accept traditional biblical narratives in a literal sense. Yet, for reasons that remain unclear, he hesitates to critically examine or openly challenge the doctrines of Abrahamic religions. This reluctance stands in contrast to his analytical approach toward other belief systems, where he often employs a level of scrutiny similar to that of a classical atheist.
By promoting these traditional religious beliefs without subjecting them to the same critical analysis, Peterson may inadvertently encourage a regression to less tolerant worldviews. This paradoxical stance not only creates tension within his intellectual framework but also risks undermining the positive impact of his work. Some argue that this inconsistency detracts from his credibility, as it appears he supports doctrines that have historically contributed to societal division and conflict.
The true understanding of God is a template for us to never allow our species to be enslaved.
It requires a lot more knowledge than what we. make it.
To be honest, it feels like he's become different after the whole "reeducation" issue with the board of psychologists. It's really weird, I just can't put my finger on it.
I mean they slowly stole his career and profession of a lifetime off of him
“Happiness is beneficial for the body, but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind.”
This idea that people don't literally believe in God is a new one for me.
I grew up Catholic until I left school and slowly throughout my 20's understood I was an atheist.
Either my school, my church, my parents and every text and fellow believer were really really fucking bad at explaining 'we don't mean literally' or they all literally believed it. It was a cornerstone of my upbringing in religion. That the magic was real. That God is magic. Jesus is magic. That the rules of the universe as we understand them today were broken on a daily basis back then.
This all stinks of moving the goalposts.
First it was science reducing the God of the Gaps.
Now it's interpretation saying Christians don't believe the Bible and God and Jesus's ressurection as literal.
What next? That it's just how it makes you feel? It makes you all warm and fuzzy and anyone pointing out that it's inaccurate and full of inconsistencies and downright lies is being offensive and intolerant? Such a mighty religion that people have to fake believing in it.
This notion that Christians think God is not literally real irks me so much because I spend 20 years of my life being told adamantly that he was literally real.
@@kevtb874 if you look at any of the prominent "Christian" intellectuals in the media... their main point is that it's good for society, fake or not.
Which is kinda silly
different people have different views on what god is
Peterson, the world's greatest tent preacher
You can only have a moral foundation based on atheism. There's nothing moral about doing good only because you fear divine punishment for doing bad. Obedience is not virtue. The only measure of good is doing good for its own sake without concern for reward.
Protagoras of Abdera: Of All Things Man Is The Measure
@@thedeviousgreek1540 Deeds will not be less valiant because they are unpraised.” - Aragorn
Lord of the rings.
@@Mogorman87 It is Man who judges things as valiant. Praise is also his domain.
Atheism is just another belief system.
I'm agnostic, I don't need your atheism to be moral.
Besides, all morality is subjective. Your morality as a Westerner is different to that of an Oriental or African.
@@Bahamut998 if we ignore all moralities, and decide that the goal of culture is to protect the best of humanity. then an atheistic culture will necessarily result.
When I'd heard dillahunty speaking in this or that video he sounded quite persuasive but then I heard him say that he was pro-choice because "no person had a right to use a person's body without their consent": in other words the baby had forced the mother to conceive it and was victimising the mother by not committing suicide in the womb". Knowing that the human intellect could sink this low in knowingly erasing its own purpose was completely new to me before I heard him express this idea. As far as bodily autonomy is concerned there are men and women who don't believe their desire for an orgasm gives them the right to risk having to kill an unborn child so they either have sex only with someone they would want to have a child with or with someone they are atleast in agreement with about taking responsibility for what they do with their bodily autonomy should a certain outcome be the result.
The problem here is the metaphysical concept of primacy: is there primacy of existence or primacy of consciousness?
On the one hand, Jordan says that there is primacy of consciousness because "reality needs an observer and that is consciousness" Therefore, reality is because the observer is conscious of it. Therefore objective reality can't exist because it depends on a conscience. But where does that conscience exists then?
Furthermore, he says there's divine revelation, thus saying that reality is not objective and identifiable but being passed from divine consciousness (God's) to illuminated human, prophet or whomever, which comically plays out the process of human faith (unchallenged assertion or dogma passed from a mind to another) and ultimately goes allong with the Jungian concept of collective consciousness.
On the other hand, there's primacy of existence where objective reality contains forms of consciousness that have objective means of connection and correspondence (senses, reason and logic) to that existence. Thus being the conscience that needs the existence to exist and not the other way around.
Have you read Ayn Rand?
For me, knowing some of his childhood and watching Peterson's old Harvard lectures puts a different light on who he is today.
There's a certain type of guy who comes from abuse in poverty as the town smartypants, burns bright to escape that through his 20s-30s, becomes his job, becomes the very picture of an isolated academic, turns around to find an unfamiliar world, gets angry enough to scare himself, and Finds God in some way to develop a moral compass he now believes he didn't have before.
That's my psychoanalysis of the psychologist, anyway. Maybe because this was also the trajectory of the smartest JP fans in my life.
Jordan Peterson converted into Christianity after experiencing a life altering event, when he admitted he was contemplating going to Swithland for assisted dying, and the same goes for his wife, when she was diagnosed with rare cancer and survived, but that shifted her mindset, it looks like they both experienced some spiritual awakening. This is why maybe now Mr Peterson thinks his moral compass is aligned with who he is. I understand him because I went through a life altering event that changed the entire course of my life. Sometimes, things happen to us that shift our entire perspectives on things.
Peterson has become a mafia lawyer. He used to be interesting and even, sometimes sincere.
Matt Dillahunty is way better when he isn't trying to bark others out of the room.
Wait…he doesn’t always bark others outta the room???😂😮💨😉
I know right?! Jordan never shouts his opponent down or speaks over them constantly. What happened to civility in debate?! /sarcasm
Mmmmkay. Muffin.
Does he ever not bark at people?
Except when Fox News constantly interrupts their guests right
We will all find out for sure. You just better be right!
"If you avail yourself of the power of a rational epistemology, you do not have to fear new data or new ideas."
-Leonatd Peikoff- Objectivist
What frustrates me about the "atheists can't be moral line" is it arguably constructs a test: If religion is the foundation of moral behaviour, then the absence of religion must lead to immorality. But there is nothing even resembling a correlation, let alone causation between being irreligious and being immoral. But instead of doing the intellectually honest thing and concluding that religion has failed that particular test of being the foundation of moral behaviour, all these apologists bend over backward pretending moral atheists are actually theists, and we're just being difficult about it for some reason. It's all the more frustrating when we have a known phenomenon that does pass that test, (the absence of x correlates with immoral behaviour and therefore is a contender for being the foundation of moral action) namely empathy.
It's disturbing that Christians assert that "biblical moral teaching" and a genuine belief in a judgment and eternal afterlife are required to make them eschew evil action for the most part.
It is also insulting to the humans that existed for 200,000-300,000 years prior to abrahamic religions existing. They had morals. Because when Peterson, or other theists bring this up, they mean morality mentioned in the bible, the bible has only existed for less than 2000 years, homo sapiens have been around for 300,000 ish years, at least.
@@rdizzy1 Prehuman ancestors had morality even if they didn't have tenured professors of Ethics.
What does an atheist base their morality on?
Yes, but also reason. We need some over arching principles as well and in this respect I agree with religious people. The difference is, I think we can make our foundation without religion with empathy AND reason.
Listen to how clearly these guys talk, compared to Peterson's word-salad nonsense which he affects in order to make himself seem clever. It's amazing that people fall for it.
Saying morality *must* have an atheist or a religious foundation is just silly. Morality is not exclusive to a set of religious beliefs or lack thereof.
in my opinion its hard to have morality without a leap of faith, i have yet to find a way without faith in something (not even necessarily religious just good = good), dosent mean there isnt one tho i just havent found it
@ That’s kind of my point. A moral framework can come from a set of values that aren’t necessarily religious in a traditional way, and different religions will disagree on what is moral.
what bought his favour and turned him televangelist? why does anybody do it? to fill the plate, to expand into another demographic, for appearance sake or new owners maybe? selling god always rubs me like a catholic priest. i don't like it. maybe the second coming is a movement.
He went trough depression and addiction. I assume thats where he really got into this god stuff
@@miquelr2353 Or he saw that farming the religious is the most profitable business move, not to mention the easiest.
@@thedeviousgreek1540 okay donut
'Faith' is merely fear dressed up as virtue...
That is a remarkably simplistic understanding of 'faith' which ignores all of the work that has been done on the term.
@@bayreuth79 Yet so accurate.
@@bayreuth79what work has been done on faith apart from ad nauseam church marketing crapola???
i'd say there too much meaning condensed in the word to put it so bluntly. There maybe a lot of fear involved. But seemingly people experience fearlessness when they are truly faithful to some cause. So if I had to try put in a sentence as you did I'd say: Fear brings people to pursue faith to get rid of it.
It's pretty obvious to me. There's a reason the word 'faith' is hyphenated. As is so often the case, English words can have more than one meaning. OP does not just mean 1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something. but 2. strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
Matt always wears the coolest shoes
Peterson must of had a nervous breakdown and is in a rest home.
He did have a nervous breakdown a few years ago, it's well documented. He fell of the cliff after that....
@@nem447i heard he did some experimental medical procedure in a different country
You guys are so confusing. There is so much left out details that you keep inferring or skipping.
I kept waiting for a point but you never got there.
when i hear anyone say something like "jordan basically said..." its instantly a strawman, knowing how much context jordan provides. From my understanding of jordan what he means when he says "atheists still believe in a god" isnt an accusation that theyre lying, just that they are ignorant of what religion and belief really mean. What is a religion? At its core its a set of beliefs. This doesnt mean there exists a tangible extra dimensional entity bestowing these things, it can be as simple as a belief that racism is wrong, but theres nothing that says thats true. If you were someone that has absolutely zero faith in any morallity then you would be a murderer because theres nothing to say thats wrong.
@@booperdee2 Good take.
It was very generous to suggest anything about Peterson’s views are realistic.
Harvard and Toronto University must be the worst schools in existence since they hire teachers with 0 realistic views.
Many of them are realistic, I mean pretty much everything political he gets right.
I quit easily after taking Chantix - no Gods, no religion, no nothing - just some chemicals that made me totally uninterested in smoking (BTW: I used to smoke 3 packs daily for 35 years).
So Chantix is your master?
@@rathraven1313 no, I quit that at the same time - worked marvels for me ....
*Thou shall not conflate facts and values*
Those chairs are terrible
It’s pretty simple, what is true is repeatable, Jordan’s advice through narrative and metaphorical meaning isn’t repeatable, it’s doesn’t apply to everyone, it doesn’t have the utility he thinks it does and he lets down the people he wants to help. It’s shameful really.
Nonsense... Its been proven to be repeatable for centuries and proven utility. How do you think humans lived before modern day enlightenment.
It’s shocking how many accept his broad concept and repeat it, without thinking about the utility and whether it maps onto reality. When he’s questioned he goes for the ‘I know the literature’ as if that phrase is the ultimate debate winner.
Why do I feel guilty and like listening two men talking behind another man's back after he has left?
Because you know it's petty.
Jordan Peterson exhibits a profound understanding of psychology and the mechanisms by which religious beliefs shape human behavior and societal development. His intellectual depth suggests that he is too enlightened to accept traditional biblical narratives in a literal sense. Yet, for reasons that remain unclear, he hesitates to critically examine or openly challenge the doctrines of Abrahamic religions. This reluctance stands in contrast to his analytical approach toward other belief systems, where he often employs a level of scrutiny similar to that of a classical atheist.
By promoting these traditional religious beliefs without subjecting them to the same critical analysis, Peterson may inadvertently encourage a regression to less tolerant worldviews. This paradoxical stance not only creates tension within his intellectual framework but also risks undermining the positive impact of his work. Some argue that this inconsistency detracts from his credibility, as it appears he supports doctrines that have historically contributed to societal division and conflict.
At 1:09 Matt Dillihunty said a fellow messaged him on Twitter claiming that most people who profess belief in God don't actually believe. Matt said it's arrogant and dismissive and I thought so too, but after pondering it a bit more I wonder. Because I grew up in church and all the different pastors and Sunday school teachers would concede that all of them have doubts from time to time and occasionally a full blown crisis of faith. Why does it not follow that they might secretly not believe in God after all. What other core beliefs do we doubt? Do we doubt our parents love us? Do we doubt the mathematics and science we learned in college and high school? Maybe some do and I'm unusual. The simple fact is that our parents are real and science and math predict exactly what will occur in the physical world if we mix certain chemicals or apply an electrical charge to a certain substance or launch a rocket toward one of Jupiter's moons. But God stands apart because of his chronic absence. He never shows up. He never tells his believers that they are correct and doing the right thing. How can any person with even an 8th grade education believe in God without a shred of doubt? They profess their own doubts. And isn't doubt just a less rigorous and specific skepticism?
Jordon says a lot with out saying anything he is totally lost the plot in the last few years
Having a large vocabulary and having critical thinking skills are 2 completely different things.
Glad more and more people are starting to see Peterson for what he is
Is there anyone that thinks murray;peterson,harris they just sit around talking bollox..just get paid talk hot air and people think there like a messiah.there not solving anything.
Yeah, because it's only a millionth time this channel has posted this clip FFS. They are just content farming
@@Anton_Jermakoŭ murray is a bigot and a racist.peterson just talks hot air.there are more male brick layers than women.wow.amazing.woke?what is woke anyway.and now jordan has decided to weigh in on the middle east.dont forget these are the two guys who think tommy robinson a far right thug is the new churchill.
I heard that Peterson is preparing for a UK tour with Constantin Kisin and John Fury on the subject of Hard Men in The UK.
Why is the Pangburn Channel only showing up on my feed when discussing Jordan Peterson? It’s almost like you are his fan feed. If you think he’s so crap leave him alone. But no the algorithm loves him.
And what do you fear what might happened if Atheists suddenly decided, that “God” after all, existed…..:.:.
We just do not know yet…..and we never might….both possibilities seem overwhelming and extraordinary
Love Peterson in his self help role. The religious crap is tedious. Too esoteric to be useful or interesting.
You’re IQ is too low to understand it, makes perfect sense to me
Looks like historical footage.
JP went too far into the rabbit hole.
Matt pretends we havent seen him rage quit multiple debates what a tool
Interesting argument regarding deconstructing a human based upon IQ so why is it we can deconstruct the same person based upon their belief or not in God?
Jordan's main problem is that he has become cringe. The things he says, but his attitude and general behaviour as well. Part of being cringe is that you do not recognize it yourself.
So condescending to criticise another person online. Intrusive. As though they put themselves on a higher plane.
Agree
That notion of Douglas at the very end of the video!!! Sooo beautiful!!!!!
Douglas Murray equally says nothing and more drawls with his upper middle class British tone than say anything of substance. It’s insufferable listening to him as he’s beyond his level of competence as a journalist when he engages in a lot of discussions that he’s clearly not a specialist in by formal training and only comes to these topic as an autodidact
He definitely said a lot more than what you just said, WTF was that?
This is weird. Delahunty is nowhere near on Murray's level
I find it odd to debate a prominent thinker in his absence, must feel awkward for Douglas to try and interpret what his friend Jordan really thinks.
Only those that believe will know God and his Holy Spirit. It’s something that if you seek God you will find him. To claim there’s not something because you can’t see it or touch it is why so many died from bacteria and viruses before we had microscopes. There’s a spiritual world and only if you seek the spirit of God and fear and Love him he will be revealed in your life the importance of this is that only those protected by Holy Spirit will be protected and guided from evil spirit which is also real and therefore the need of humans to choose God or be misled into evil.
0:59 So, to be clear, only the truth you care about. Of course....😂😂😂😂
He's become audience captured by the religious right, which is incredibly lucrative lol. He still offers great insight onto human psychology and relationships, which is his background, but his rhetoric on religion is embarrassing and he's way out of his depth.
and the maga right that admire authoritarianism.
Trying to get a straight answer from Peterson on anything is an exercise in futility. His grift model relies on never delivering.
What really happened to him is the Chloryl Hydrate treatment he received in Russia for his benzo addiction. At least, that's my hypothesis.
I've wondered about that treatment. Are there psychological side effects?
You can't have an honest and realistic conversation with someone who has a slippery grasp on reality. Peterson has no real sense of reality as he's OBSESSED with mythos and metaphor. He lives in his own world and bubble and so transfers his supposed "intellectualism" as dogma and absolutism. In short, he's a magician trying to dictate law onto a world he really doesn't live in, has no real-world association with nor any relationship with. And then when faced with pushback, he cries, whines, bellows and plays victim, much like the evangelical militant xians do when they face the same criticism and challenges. Their protests and epithets are actually CONFESSIONS of their own agenda. Facing REALITY and having to CONFORM to REALITY feels like persecution for them. The emperor has no clothes, let alone power.
WeLl iVE REad the LiteraTure oN That anD its verY clEar. Ive lost count of the amount of times hes tried to push completely bogus ideas with these stock lines
That’s nonsense, he is as factual as humanly possible. Just because you can’t understand him. Maybe you could have a dictionary at hand when you listen to a lecture.
@@Stanley_Baby haaahahaha no. He makes a few valid points about a few things, but outside of that his nonsense unfortunately only convinces the least perceptive people... sorry about that.
@@Stanley_Baby one of his tricks is to claim something is backed by a study when its not. He knows he wont be questioned because it sounds convincing to reference a study, and he knows people like you never bother to look up these studies or do any of your own research
@@enterpassword3313 Of course you’ve totally convinced me now. Good luck voting for Harris anyway you simp 🤯
What happened to Matt Dillahunty?
"...one must accept and use reason in any attempt to prove anything".
-Leonard Peikoff- Objectivist
I really like this version of Matt. The vitriol he shows toward believers on his show is so juvenile and fremdscham-inducing.
Isn‘t he the simping for Islam guy? At least I think that was why I lost interest in him a decade ago. Islam simps get people killed.
Petersons an intense dude who is a caring person but I can see how he would have to careful not to lapse in to depression.
I noticed that Peterson accuses others of being narcissistic during his anti-woke rants. Pot calling the kettle black, eh Jordy?
He's always been this way.
When I am asked if I believe in God, I simply respond, "Which one?"
Atheists and believers reject the existence of hundreds if not thousands of Gods. Atheists add just one more to the list.
Wow... checkmate, theists!
Atheists and believers reject hundreds if not thousands of gods. Atheists just add one more to the list.
got him 🤦♂️
Actually all believers believe there is only one god. How stupid of you to say
Why would ppl who believe in something out there as in a god be called fake followers of god if they believe in a god how do they not believe
God exist! Why would anyone who truly knows God exist feel the need to preach about that fact. Only the fakes and the frauds behave in that way and they attract the same type of people to be the fake and fraudulent followers. True believers are too busy getting the plank out of their own eyes before concerning themselves with the speck of dust in their neighbors eye. Hence the term “ fake followers “.
@@73split if a person "knows" that their god exists, then they're also now aware that billions of people will be tortured for all eternity.
Wouldn't it make sense for Christians to spread out their message and convince as many people as possible to save their soul ?
Pretty fucked up not to
@@skindred1888 you obviously don’t know God. Get the plank out of your own eye before you worry about the spec of dust in your neighbors eye.
Truth is what Jesus came to see on mass but failed, truth is what is undeniable by you(your reality)and its unshakable character will be witnessed by those who know you as a rebirth, a new you, make us believe you love this truth that wells up in you and in your anxious exuberance tell your neighbours, if the orig word is one and He is with Him and it matters to only you facing them then go through Him and they will come upon you that we will witness.
Those closest to me are GOD believers. They are successful with a cut above IQs and any suggestion that their cherished beliefs do not stand up to critical examination is taken as a personal affront. Once indoctrinated few rise above the dogma. Most Christians believe their Jesus will reappear bodily within their lifetime to bring peace and justice to our world, It Strikes me as a sad tale.
“Truth for me” = opinion.
Approximation to truth = correct notion of truth.
Jordan Peterson has always had peculiar beliefs, people just chose to think that they were incredible because Peterson became essentially a social media star when he entered the political arena as an "anti woke hero". I do find his ideas interesting but to the average person, he isn't someone easy to connect to. He's a high IQ psychologist who basically made a complex thing out of Christianity because that man cannot resign himself to an honest and simple Christian belief in God. He's the character of an Atheist due to his intelligence, so he can't just believe. IMHO his beliefs are not authentic Christianity, and I doubt he goes to the Catholic Church for guidance and catechism. I even doubt he often goes to Church. He just does not strike me as a Christian, more as an intellectual gaslighting himself that he's a Christian. There is a passage in the Bible that even declares that one must essentially turn off reason to be a believer and go to Heaven, and that people like him are on a path to hell essentially if they use reason above all else.
His wife is a Catholic.
Yes, we all know Christians turn off their reasoning skills to believe in a magic sky fairy. Was there supposed a point in that word salad?
In the realms of Psychology and Philosophy Peterson is a heavyweight. But in Theology he is a lightweight, wrestling with his own beliefs. I don’t fault him for that- but he gets outclassed too easily. For a good Theological debate bring in William Lane Craig or John Lennox.
good Theological debate= oxymoron
People have an attitude towards religion a religious "God" and the people distorted in belief not "knowing". While denying their limited arrogant position about the nature of reality as an evolved consciousness contemplating their place in the universe lol they only project that on to the other. When there's a spectrum of those who understand psychology quantum physics etc and there's a spectrum of believers / knowers. Some know what can only be known within and see it's reflection externally. Others are reaching seeking or not. Seers Try to convey a paradox only understood through experiential initiation "enlightenment".. holding onto resistance and your view of reality using made up words that can't actually truly explain anything.. that's why surrender(ego death) is needed or you'll be a limited ego for your whole life. Though it can still be beautiful fulfilling and purposeful surrendering to not knowing and living in integrity. I'd suggest everyone do that anyway and yes some atheist do that and are gracious individuals
Not enough atheists do that, though. They've simply replaced the language of spirituality for science while saying the exact same thing fundamentally.
I was a devout Atheist & nonbeliever till I lived w an Entity for 4.5 yrs, last April when I moved out it followed me, I was chased thru town by Demon's I thought were men around the same time which brought me BACK to God last yr & I believe w every fiber of my being that our Father exists who sent his only begotten son, our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ to die for our sins & The Holy Spirit makes up The Trinity for Christ is King. ❤❤
Please seek help, this is an indication of psychosis, left untreated you might hurt yourself or someone you care about.
@@user-HellcatHemi if you're chased through a town by demons...there will have been cameras catching this phenomenon.
I'll try find it for you
As a clinical psychologist I think Jordan needs to analyse himself.
I thought it was only us engineers who started comments: as an …..😅😅
As an armchair psychologist, I concur.
What happened to J.P?.. Dementedness. Went mad, lost hid mind, became hysterically pathetic as all his religion, as his ridiculous god.
Wealthy spoiled people are talking.
Jordan Peterson is the worst representation of a good idea and a conversation that is being had by many other than Peterson. What Peterson has yet broach is the fact that what we are talking about, if not articulated properly, could be mistaken for old-fashion 20th century Fascism or (more particular) Nazi ideology. Although there are indeed some genuine points of comparison and agreement with facist ideology, it would not suitably represent the movement as being "supremacist", expansivist or outwardly agreasive in nature.
It recognizes the genuine need and value for diversity and a polarity of ideas. This is not something to be erased through mass-migration and a general disregard for a nations or regions native culture.
A willful and respectful segregation based on the recognition of The Other's ultimate polarity as the essential foundation for the health and presistence of the nation and its people.
What’s funny is the world is diverse I would rather visit France and see French people or Germany and see German culture Instead every country basically be the same with the same culture and everybody battling for their group identity.
let us be deliberately obtuse, so pick a rut and good luck
Jordan speaks on a much deeper level, than most people have never ever even thought about. One should not throw pearls before swine! WHEN the disciple is ready, the teacher will appear.
I’ve seen videos of people crying, saying that Peterson changed is life! What the heck am I missing?!
He was there help us when the left was attacking us because we didn’t agree with them. Then he published 12 Rules for Life and that helped me and a friend when most of society didn’t want to acknowledge us and told us to shut up because we weren’t important.
Maybe something else that will change your life and make you cry about it. No big deal, different strokes for folks.
Skydaddy worship undermines any intellectual ring toss.
Jp is unstable
Peterson has lost the plot. A mind infected by religious visions.
Douglas Murray seemed so much more intelligent back then.
He seems just as intelligent now, only more spiteful
Which came first,,, the ribosome? Or, the RNA code that specifies it? If the RNA code comes first,,,, where's the ribosome that will read it?
This whole channel does nothing but attack jordan peterson its rather pathetic
Peterson used to say that truth is the most important value. He based his refusal to yield to compelled speech advocates on what I assume are those grounds, and that because if a person with a penis says they are a woman, that does not make it so.
Yet he later defended religious belief on the basis that it is good for the individual and good for society. That is a utilitarian argument and has nothing to do with whether there is actually a God. It seems he might have come to this position after his wife was seriously ill and found comfort in religion.
His statements on anthropogenic climate change are factually false, and seem to come from a position of disliking opinions which he considers "left" rather than any serious analysis of the scientific evidence.
I find Peterson's lectures on psychology interesting. That is his field of expertise. He should stick to it.
just no 😂
@@BlackQueen-z5b "Feelings and emotions are not part of the method of logic".
-Leonard Peikoff-
@@BeefT-Sq cool story kid.
Humans don’t contribute to climate change. It’s part of the process where we see ourselves as God, and that we are powerful enough to change the climate. Of course we aren’t God.
There are only two genders btw, you seem like a mentally I’ll Peterson critic
Douglas is a treasure. I don't know the other guy, I will search for his conversation with JP. JP says some strange things, but I wouldn't throw away the baby with the bath water. It seems Douglas gets this, the other guy doesn't. He sounds like the boring and shallow kind of an atheist in this clip, not very inspiring.
Douglas is a pompous bigoted pos. just like you I’d assume seeing as you hold this opinions is such a high regard.
I kinda agree that most people who think they believe in God actually do not - otherwise, they wouldn’t be doing anything wrong and spending most of their money on charity: the risk of the eternal punishment would be too high.
That’s an interesting perspective. I’d recommend allowing people to express themselves directly. Your ability to assess personalities may not be as accurate as you think.
Interesting, I would say everyone believes in god most just deny it. Which is why “non believers” get so triggered by people who are firm in their belief. People like you want there to be no god and no accountability.
the challenge of belief is that it isnt knowledge
@@BlackQueen-z5bwell, it is a logical conclusion, not an assessment of personalities.
@@Stanley_Baby your argument is a strawman one; and lacks logic; note that you actually not arguing my logical conclusion (eg by saying that you and all your believing friends never committed any sins) but rather generalizing and attributing to me (and many other atheists) what we do not have
I love how"truth is that which comports with reality" because he's thinking about religion and how to argue against religion.
But the second we talk about gender, the whole "truth is that which comports with reality" blows in his face but... who cares right😂
Ohh Matt, what has happened to you?
What's the difference between sex and gender
@@maxsrebro6072 sex is an evolutionary strategy based on having organisms organized around the production of smal gametes (males) vs organisms organized around the production of large gametes (females).
Gender is a preference for having or enhancing certain characteristics, irrespective of social norms.
@Renato404 cool does Matt belive that trans women menstruate or trans men can impregnate a woman?
@@maxsrebro6072 I don't think so.
@@Renato404 whats your issue with him exactly then