Hey Brian I definitely enjoyed this video. Through out the years I’ve had my share of road and mountain bikes. Because of my love for cycling I decided to look into folding bikes. Last year I picked up a Verge P10 and I love it. The other day I was on the board walk ( Far Rockaway NY ) working on my pace. I heard this sound behind me like bees getting closer. When I look to my side it was a crew of cyclists passing me. It was so cool to see them especially when a few of them looked at me nodded head heads and smiled. Like you said it’s not what bike you have it’s also legs and endurance. At 74 years old I’m happy with my Verge P10. 😎👍
Thanks for this video, I have recently purchased a Tern Verge P-10. It's an awesome bike. I also have another Tern and a Brommy!! Thanks for the great videos. Love em
Greetings from sunny Malaysia. What a brilliant, well balanced review of the Tern 👍All aspects covered - good and the not so good. Keep up the good work and stay safe 😷
Great review Brian of the Tern Verge P10/X11. Every time another folder is reviewed (Birdy, Dahon, Tern, etc.) I gain a better understanding of my Brompton -- and love it all the more! :D BTW, you've really upped your game with your video content and music too. :)
Thanks, I appreciate that. Nothing beats a Brompton so far....i am going to review the crappiest folding bike I have ever ridden soon. Believe me after riding a crappy folder I definitely appreciate my Brompton.😀👍
Tern makes some of the best folding bikes period. Yes they're not the smallest but they're probably the best riding. I have the verge d9 and it's plenty fast but I'm no racer so i was fine with the entry level verge. Looking to get a BYB to travel with. Cheers!
They make the best as far as I'm concerned. What makes this bike so swift is the 22 inch wheels. They are PERFECTION. And make is possible to hit speeds in the right side of 25mph. Which is more difficult on 20 inch. And near impossible on a brompton. With its 16 inch wheels.
Dude, sweet review. Just ordered my new P10 today. So I definitely appreciate your expert insight. You’re right, the hydraulic brakes are insane on these folders. I had the Verge S8I and they DO stop on a dime. Keep cranking out cool quality vids my man!
@Adrian Willett Peace/Pardon - After watching/readimg quite a few videos/articles on the #TernVergeS8i, I'm now looking into purchasing a new/used one to add to my fleet (as my daily/compact commuter) & I'm open to hear any/all of the pros/cons as a one-time owner vs any rep(s) gearing/promoting towards "sales" (I'd also like to know your final reasoning(s) for getting rid of it as you mentioned that you "had" one once upon a time)... 🤝🏽
I agree about hydraulic disc brake being overkill on a folder. Even mechanical disk brake can be overkill. The stock mechanical disk brake caliper on my folder was too strong, easy to lock up wheels thus send me flying over the handlebar so I replaced it with a entry level low end caliper. As is now It has adequate stopping power and doesn't lock up wheels.
Hey, love your review. I got my P10 (black colour) in 2017 and it's stock version. I didn't modify anything except add the clip (KLICKfix) for a basket at the front (just in case i need them on certain days. I don't usually ride with them though). Yes, I was undecided between the P10 and the X11 when I was at the shop. Price was a big consideration. It was SGD2125 for the P10 and a hefty SGD4200 for the X11. As it was my first foldie, I went with the P10 instead. Never looked back! Great review ! Loved it!
Yeah the price difference between the P10 and X11 is too great for me. I got the P10. It's about 3.6lbs heavier than the X11. But 10 speed is plenty. So I said okay how can I shave a couple of pounds off without breaking the bank. So I changed out the saddle and seat post. For an Ergon SR PRO saddle. And a litepro carbon seat post. I changed the pedals to carbon tubed Rockbros. That took 1.9lbs off the P10. For less than £200. So it now weighs 23.9lbs down from 25.8lbs. Still 1.7lbs heavier than the X11. But for a total spend of £1200 vs the £2400 the X11 costs. I will take that all day long.
Hi Brian i have a brompton and a tern verge tour 27 speed absolutely love it build quality is as good if not better than my brompton and a lot more comfortable take care friend
That bike is a little weird. They don't make the German drivetrain that bike has anymore. They do still make the bike so I will definitely do a review soon.
So what I got from the Video. Tern is like the not so refined Bigger Brother and is for People that need a folder that they only fold once a Day. Looks nice
Hi Brian, thanks for the grt review. In addition, am really curious as to why you would choose a brompton over x11 for a daily commuter? Is it the compact nature of a Brompton ? There's something special about a Brompton that I don't get. To me, x11 is faster and can take on high hills easier.
If the price is a barrier buy the new Verge D9 with disc brakes and upgrade select components. 451 tires are easy to find on-line (fyi, your "20 inch" wheels are actually closer to 18.6"=etrto 622). I don't see much difference between 9 speed and 10 or 11 speed performance but a HUGE difference in price (I can get 9 speed cassettes and chains for $25 but higher speed is 2-5x as much).
There's a difference alright. Not so much on the flat. But on steep hills oh yeah. Ive ridden both the D9 and X11. That 5lbs less weight and superior gearing and less friction on the X11. Shows itself when you hit a long steep incline. The D9 will take alot more out of your legs. The word is EFFICIENCY. That's what you are paying the big bucks for. The same reason nobody enters the Tour de France with a 25lb Trek FX2. But a 15lb pinarello costing over 10 times as much. They want a chance of winning..
Nice upgrades on the p10 you have on, i have a p10 and also a brompton. True, you have the p10 for speeds and the brompton for commuting just like myself.
Great review, and a great bike. I think folders are all about compromises, and you go with the type that fits your priorities at the time. A few years ago I used to take a 20 inch wheel folder out in my car and ride home, and the ride quality was pretty good for a folder. My full size road bike was always more stable and felt better to ride, but of course it was more difficult to fit in my car. Nowadays the ability to fold really compact has become a higher priority, and I got a brompton. To be fair the 20 inch bike would fold down reasonably compact, but the brompton is so compact that it will go almost anywhere, and the trolley wheels make it much more portable around pedestrian areas and big stores etc. I'm not attached to the brompton because of the name, but because of what it can do, and I guess the evident build quality it has. If my priorities and my situation change in the future, such that a super-compact fold becomes less important, I'll happily swap the brompton for a 20 inch wheel bike to get a more stable ride- and the tern range would be on the shortlist.
Very cool machine, Brian. I have already 3 bikes (one 20 inch compact Pedelec, a 29 inch MTB Cube Race One and a 28 inch vintage aluminium frame road racer from 1995) but I want that small folder....may be later
Change the brake-pads. Real nice bike, Brian. I mean, really nice. I'd love one but I'm too poor. I could save but I want some experience with my cheap folder for a few years--then maybe I can get something like this beauty. Have a good day at work partner.
Love those arial shots! This review really impressed me, - like your race in the city which you may not have been aware of. "Heart-attack hill." You are becoming a real 'cool' folding bike Vlogger, Brian. Oh, I may have missed it, but the airation in you helmet - ? a result of that spill you took?
5:37 Beyond efficiency, there are issues of safety and durability if cheap/crap bikes being ridden hard on a regular basis. Wheel hubs, spokes, cranks, frame, pedals, seats, handlebars can/will all break with a taller & stronger human cranking away. A "fast bike" may best be attributed to a bike built to go fast speeds safely and without cheap parts nor extra aero drag getting in the way. Yes, ive broken the parts mentioned above. I plan on getting a Brompton C + Having to make diet changes to stay below the recommended weight limit.
why did you go as big on the chainring. 63t I thought 53t was big enough no? also when you purchased the Scram Force rear derailleur , did you have to change the Shimano shifter that was originally on the p10
Carbon is strong but brittle. Hit the right way during a crash I can and will crack. I cracked the frame an expensive carbon fiber mountain bike during a crash…. Not a fan.
Beautiful bike! The best one I could find in my country was the Verge N8. Love the ride quality, and it feels very stiff and agile while riding, almost as good as any hybrid bike. Only con for me is the bike is flimsy when folded and keeps falling down. I don't fold it much anyway, so not a biggie. Love your channel! One of the only ones dedicated to folders :)
I took at look at the specs of the P10 . It takes a 10 speed chain so you could put a quality hard wearing one on it like a YBN SLA101. It comes with a KMC X10 which is not a bad chain. This also explains why the derailleur is decent as 10 speed bikes are not bargain basement. I like the Jagwire slick cable housings. The cables are not specified but I have Jagwire slick stainless on my bike which I polished myself to super slickness. They do make a difference compared to rough galvanized steel cables. The wheels may be strong but the allowed rider + bike + other stuff is only 120Kg so if you are chunky ...... I had at look at those Vuelta SE flat chainrings as I am assuming thats the model that Brian has fitted. Annoyingly Vuelta only says they are made of aircraft aluminum which says to me that they probably don't want you to actually know what they are made of ( probably 6061 ) ?
I was looking at the Verge D8 at REI. It is half the price of a Brompton. It is also 5" wider and 2" longer than a Zizzo Via including its fenders. Hmmm. I don't see me owning more than one folder--I just want one to do it all. I need to be able to check it at the airport.
Well all the folders I have are relatively the same size folded(more or less). The Brompton has the smallest fold, but any folder works well for travel assuming it's packed well to avoid damage. Via is pretty small folded, but not much smaller that the forte or the liberate. Verge is definitely a little bigger than the zizzos for sure.
Another good video. Would you be able to do an in-depth comparison video of each bicycle in folded form? Curious to see more views of length and width. I am thinking about a folded bike for a commute the includes a bus ride. Your input provides good insight for me. Also any chance to do a video regarding how well each bicycle rolls or pushed on its wheels in folded form? I know the Brompton can be pushed in folded form and curious about how your other folding bicycles compare. Thanks again and always look forward to your videos!
I am doing a video of all the bikes I own soon. This video will have a folded comparison of each bike. As far as the rolling capabilities of each I will do a video about that as well---good idea👍😀
@@ibikeunfolded possible to add special feature on what each of the foldable bikes can be modified to improve its performance, stability, comfort.. Etc, when comparing?
Great review Brian , I hope you're doing well. I did not hear a mention of weight capacity. The ZIZZO Forte,as you know, is engineered for up to 300 LBs, total rider + cargo weight capacity. Great for expedient bikepacking / touring for a folder who's rider is a Clydesdale and their bathtub has stretchmarks( me post Covid lockdown😁). I'm hoping the VERGE P10 has a comparable weight limit as the
Brian, I am 81 and I have a Tern Verge P10. Do you think I'm too old to bicycle? Also, your criticism at the end was a little confusing as to which model you were talking about. My bike was $1399 and the X11 was $2500. But this year, the componentry on the P10 is different and the price is $1150. I agree with you about the tire size and I might not have bought the bike if I knew that tires were so hard to come by. I also wanted wider tires which I bought so I have an extra pair. Getting back to age, I've been nervous about riding, not sure why. Any advice? The video is great and it's also inspiring. Take care, yo. A
The X11 has the nickname lights peed. And when you ride one you understand why. I had a cheap folder. And my 6.5 mile commute on and 85% uphill grade. Used to take me an average of 30 mins. On the X11 it takes me an average of 26 mins. This baby can MOVE. I've hit 28mph (45kph) on the flat with a slight tail wind. And on hills that used to kill me. The X11 floats up them. You only understand why this baby costs the big bucks when you ride one for a while.
Not sure. I put a 60 tooth on it originally, then I dropped it down to a 58 tooth. 60 worked just fine with the exception of dropping the chain every once in a while.
Awesome review of the upgraded P10 Brian! Getting mine soon :). Anyway, with that 60T chaninring and 11-42T cassette, what chain length/ no. of links are you using? Thinking about upgrading to that set up.
Thanks Brian! I'm a new viewer, with no folder experience, very interested in either the p10 or a BYB. Last bike I bought (Other then my everyday 2 wheeled SUV, a 33 kilo Panasonic Gyutto pedal assist electric) was a 1998 Gary Fisher MTB. I would LOVE to see you review the Tern BYB. What are the chances?
The Brompton doesn't touch a P10. It's more about the name and rep with Bromptons. They are the best fold. And thats where it ends.I needed a fast bike that was foldable and could eat up hills. And the P10 is a boss for that. It's about return for your effort. If you see some of the hills where I live. It would kill you to get up them on a Brompton. Even roadies have to work. This bike takes them. And you don't kill your legs to do it.
Thank you for such good review. quick question - have you ever ridden tern eclipse x22 - if yes, what are our thoughts? - i am deciding between the verge x11 and the eclipse x22.
I've ridden both. The Eclipse is a few miles an hour faster. But the X11 is that much more impressive given its size. I got a top speed of 31mph on the Eclipse X22. And I got 29mph on the X11 which is my bike. And I weigh 80kg. Someone 10kg or more lighter would get even more speed. And I've never been on a bike that eats up hills like an X11. It flys up them better than alot of road bikes. It's AWESOME.
I just wish there is a solution to the flat bar. It just doesn't feel like a "road/perfoance bike" without feel of the drop bar or even a bull horn. EDIT: I ended up getting one. With inner bar ends giving me extra hand positions, I have to say, I'm loving the bike. Still too heavy for the price, but it's the bike I grab when I go out riding for fun. I also have a Brompton and I wouldn't call it fast. And i can change a flat on the verge much easier than i can on the brompton.
How would you compare Tern to Dahon? I tried a Dahon D6 and found the folding very clunky and there were issues with the seat slipping down. This makes me a little leery of folding bikes as it’s my only experience with folders.
What really bums me out about the X11 is Tern mixing a sram drivetrain with shimano brakes. I really want/wanted to convert the X11 to dropbars/bullhorns but bc of the mixed components, they made it a lot more expensive to do. Also, if they can figure out how to fold a bike frame in half, I wish they'd develop dropbars/bullhorns that also folded up. This bike is supposedly their "no holds barred" bike, but opting for a more compact fold shouldn't have thwarted a more aerodynamic riding position. It's especially annoying when you know they've made the Verge X18 and X30h... On the brakes: I half-agree. The rear brakes locking up as instantly as they do kept me from crashing into someone unexpectedly walking right across the locked of bike lane. My teenager/bmx days had me instinctually pull the right brake, but thankfully, not the left. In the moment, I totally thought we were going to collide, but thankfully the bike and I just stopped. I definitely would've flown over had I used the front brake at all. Interestingly, it appears that the Verge does have mounting for rim brakes although that hole may only be for fenders. Not sure. But if it's possible, having a front rim brake and rear h. disc brake might be an interesting, albeit, funny looking combo.
Hey Brian, I was analysing the modification you made on P10. I wonder whether the cost of your current bike compared to Tern x11 is similar. Your wide Crankset is however a brilliant idea. It's like a tern x13 which is not in the market. If the cost is the same, then the only difference is it's performance which you are the only one who can compare at this stage. I wish you can get a tern x11 and compair it's controlled performance with your modified p10.
I wish I could but it be honest i am allocating money for other bikes at the moment. I have rode the x 11 and I know the body is the same. The brakes are a little better on the x11 which are over kill on the p10. The cranks are carbon on the x11, but I’d rather have alloy cranks anyway. The rest are some minor cosmetic differences like seat and grips. My next Tern purchase is the Tern byb.
@@ibikeunfolded Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated. I totally agree with you. I believe buying a tern x11 would be a waste of money since you have a modified p10. But hope you make a video of head to head comparison of these bikes in the future. I feel like your channel is a version of top gear channel of fold-bikes. There are so many ways of comparing these bikes and its fun and educative to watch. Well done and looking forward to see your tern byb. Cheers.
Because it's a brittle material. Carbon fiber, contrary to popular belief is not that strong, it's just has a lot of torsional rigidity. If a carbon fiber bike falls over and hits a rock the right way, the frame can crack. Steel is still the best material for a bike.
For utility, I would say a modified zizzo forte or a bike Friday. Zizzo forte is a 300 pound load capacity bike. The bike Friday can be ordered to meet your load needs as well.
@@ibikeunfolded I had a bike Friday and their 20 inch wheeled bikes were packable but not really foldable. I do want 20 inch wheels. I don’t need to carry that much. Just want it to be fun and carry my lunch (that is what I meant by utilitarian). Any thoughts on the Tern? Love you channel. Thanks for info.
@@Sharetheroad3333 a tern BYB is a great bike. I will be getting one in a month or so. My bike Friday does fold it’s not really what you would call a quick folder, but it does fold.😃👍
@@ibikeunfolded ya. I understand regarding the Friday. I didn’t want to pay 1,000 bucks though. I was hoping maybe a tern on the lower end would be ok.
My way to work and back home is average 18 miles and almost half of it have soft hills and a couple of them are hard. Which of the terns would you advise me to consider?
Depends. I commute back and forth to work 5 times a week. So that's 10 miles each way. I ride my bike to run errands or to go anywhere which ranges from 5-10 miles on top of the commute. On my weekends I ride 30-80 miles a day depending on where I'm going and what in doing. My commute to work can take anywhere from 35 min to 1 hr depending on weather and wind.
Let me preface this by saying the bike likely wasn’t designed for this. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxwC0IIeIomGQVeBWg-kKJaToZkLEFIA2W I picked this up for a trip to the Rockies where I didn’t want to mess with a rental car. The bike packs down great and was easily carried through TSA and through the airport. It’s a bit heavy to tote around all day but for smaller airports it was manageable. I gate checked the bike twice with no issues and it held up great. Overall I did around 100 miles through the Rockies and the only issue I had was the left crank arm kept falling off. Due to the remoteness I couldn’t source any locktite so I just kept tightening it every 10-15 miles.The bike is reasonably comfortable for 4-6 hours of riding with a Brooks saddle. For reference im 6’ 200lbs and felt like the bike fit me pretty well. The brakes are decent and the tires held up great. Overall for the price I’d say it’s a great commuter bike but I’d swap out the chainring if you plan to do a lot of hills.
Never in my life have I ever pulled a bike brake on riding one handed. Mind you I must be old school - I dont go around filming on a bike. Being 64 might account for that. I owned one folding bike - Dahon - great bike I folded it twice. The rest of my ownership it stayed up., I sold it and bought a hybrid - Giant - with comfy front suspension.
Brompton fold nice and the best at it, but it ride quality is crap. Any 20" wheel folding bike ride better than the brompton. I have the Tern verge x20, for me , its the best folding bike.
*I disagree with your "fast bike" theory since once you run the last gear out on any bike it's not going to go any faster. I have a cheap $400 Kespor K7 20" folding bike that I bought like new in used condition from a guy on offerup for $150. On this bike stock giving it all I've got I couldn't get the bike past 13 MPH, came with Shimano 14-32 freewheel, cheap shimano 7 speed Tourney RD, cheap square taper bottom bracket, slow rolling 1.5" cheap tires, etc, etc. This bike was slow when I bought it, I did many upgrades on this bike including Shimano hydraulic disc brakes, Shimano Deore XT groupset, 9-32T rear cassette Litepro Aero 406 wheels, Continental Contact Speed 1.1" tires, 80T chainring, Shimano hollowtech bottom bracket, etc. Giving it all I've got on this bike now I can easily maintain 30 MPH, as opposed to 13 MPH max when I bought the bike. So now it's a fast bike and components do actually make a bike a fast one. Just like the old saying goes: "You can't polish a turd" and you can't outrun a fast high end component bike on a cheap component bike either.*
You can EASILY maintain 30mph on 406 wheels? I don't believe that. Unless you weigh 140lbs or less. And the bike is sub 20lbs. That's not gonna happen. Even fit roadies with 15lb carbon bikes have to work hard to hold 30mph on the flat. For a bike with 406 wheels. You will never cruise at more than 21--23mph no matter what the set up. You might hit 30mph if you really go for it. But you aren't gonna hold that for long with 406 wheels. Be sure of that. The difference in drag and rolling resistance from even 25mph to 30mph is HUGE. 451 wheels and you will be able to hold 23 to 25mph depending on your WEIGHT and fitness level. So unless you can make a video to prove your claim. Its not happening. And an 80t chainring will never get you up the hills where I live. Thats ridiculous gearing. You would need an 11 to 46 rear cassette to have any chance. 58 to 60 teeth. Is the maximum size that's gonna work on a small folding bike. To get good speed on the flat 21 to 26mph. And give you the ability to climb without killing yourself.
Hey Brian I definitely enjoyed this video. Through out the years I’ve had my share of road and mountain bikes. Because of my love for cycling I decided to look into folding bikes. Last year I picked up a Verge P10 and I love it. The other day I was on the board walk ( Far Rockaway NY ) working on my pace. I heard this sound behind me like bees getting closer. When I look to my side it was a crew of cyclists passing me. It was so cool to see them especially when a few of them looked at me nodded head heads and smiled. Like you said it’s not what bike you have it’s also legs and endurance. At 74 years old I’m happy with my Verge P10. 😎👍
Thanks for this video, I have recently purchased a Tern Verge P-10. It's an awesome bike. I also have another Tern and a Brommy!! Thanks for the great videos. Love em
You’ve inspired me to start riding bikes, it’s been twenty five years and I’m 54 now.
Never too late to start. I think it's life changing....😀👍
@@ibikeunfolded me too. Bought a brompton from Denver REI first because of you then bought a zizzio urbano for trail riding.
@@ibikeunfolded if you could please review some electric folding bikes that would be awesome. Next bike I want is folding electric.
Great to see some Tern love on this channel!
You are truly a folding bike guru
👍😀 I try
@@ibikeunfolded No! You ARE! :-)
Folding bikes work the best for me and I'm trying to buy my first bike ever. I'm really inspired by and thankful for the content on this channel.
Brilliant review. The place to come to for honesty. Thanks Brian.
It's a real stretch to compare an x11 with a Brompton. The x11 is a work of art.
It's the ultimate folder for speed. Steep hills. And just looking so damn sexy.
Greetings from sunny Malaysia. What a brilliant, well balanced review of the Tern 👍All aspects covered - good and the not so good. Keep up the good work and stay safe 😷
Another great video, one of the very few channels where I enjoy watching the video over and over again to get every scrap of great advice; great job!
Great review Brian of the Tern Verge P10/X11.
Every time another folder is reviewed (Birdy, Dahon, Tern, etc.) I gain a better understanding of my Brompton -- and love it all the more! :D
BTW, you've really upped your game with your video content and music too. :)
Thanks, I appreciate that. Nothing beats a Brompton so far....i am going to review the crappiest folding bike I have ever ridden soon. Believe me after riding a crappy folder I definitely appreciate my Brompton.😀👍
Tern makes some of the best folding bikes period. Yes they're not the smallest but they're probably the best riding. I have the verge d9 and it's plenty fast but I'm no racer so i was fine with the entry level verge. Looking to get a BYB to travel with. Cheers!
They make the best as far as I'm concerned. What makes this bike so swift is the 22 inch wheels. They are PERFECTION. And make is possible to hit speeds in the right side of 25mph. Which is more difficult on 20 inch. And near impossible on a brompton. With its 16 inch wheels.
Dude, sweet review. Just ordered my new P10 today. So I definitely appreciate your expert insight. You’re right, the hydraulic brakes are insane on these folders. I had the Verge S8I and they DO stop on a dime. Keep cranking out cool quality vids my man!
@Adrian Willett Peace/Pardon - After watching/readimg quite a few videos/articles on the #TernVergeS8i, I'm now looking into purchasing a new/used one to add to my fleet (as my daily/compact commuter) & I'm open to hear any/all of the pros/cons as a one-time owner vs any rep(s) gearing/promoting towards "sales" (I'd also like to know your final reasoning(s) for getting rid of it as you mentioned that you "had" one once upon a time)... 🤝🏽
I agree about hydraulic disc brake being overkill on a folder. Even mechanical disk brake can be overkill. The stock mechanical disk brake caliper on my folder was too strong, easy to lock up wheels thus send me flying over the handlebar so I replaced it with a entry level low end caliper. As is now It has adequate stopping power and doesn't lock up wheels.
Thank you, this helped with my decision between the x11 and p10. Just finally placed my order. Important to mention the x11 does not come with pedals.
Awesome Brian,I love the way you get into detail.
Some say too much detail😁
Hey, love your review. I got my P10 (black colour) in 2017 and it's stock version. I didn't modify anything except add the clip (KLICKfix) for a basket at the front (just in case i need them on certain days. I don't usually ride with them though). Yes, I was undecided between the P10 and the X11 when I was at the shop. Price was a big consideration. It was SGD2125 for the P10 and a hefty SGD4200 for the X11. As it was my first foldie, I went with the P10 instead. Never looked back! Great review ! Loved it!
Yeah the price difference between the P10 and X11 is too great for me. I got the P10. It's about 3.6lbs heavier than the X11. But 10 speed is plenty. So I said okay how can I shave a couple of pounds off without breaking the bank. So I changed out the saddle and seat post. For an Ergon SR PRO saddle. And a litepro carbon seat post. I changed the pedals to carbon tubed Rockbros. That took 1.9lbs off the P10. For less than £200.
So it now weighs 23.9lbs down from 25.8lbs. Still 1.7lbs heavier than the X11. But for a total spend of £1200 vs the £2400 the X11 costs. I will take that all day long.
Hi Brian i have a brompton and a tern verge tour 27 speed absolutely love it build quality is as good if not better than my brompton and a lot more comfortable take care friend
AWESOME , thank you very much for sharing.
Love it.
Thank “you”. I appreciate that!
Great review! Awesome video. Cheers! Like to see the review on the Bike Friday one day. 😁✌️🍻
That bike is a little weird. They don't make the German drivetrain that bike has anymore. They do still make the bike so I will definitely do a review soon.
So what I got from the Video.
Tern is like the not so refined Bigger Brother and is for People that need a folder that they only fold once a Day.
Looks nice
X11 is the epitome of refinement and style.
A really helpful and insightful review. The comparisons made with the h
Brompton were useful too. Many thanks.
Great thorough video. Lots of value here
Hi Brian, thanks for the grt review. In addition, am really curious as to why you would choose a brompton over x11 for a daily commuter? Is it the compact nature of a Brompton ? There's something special about a Brompton that I don't get. To me, x11 is faster and can take on high hills easier.
If the price is a barrier buy the new Verge D9 with disc brakes and upgrade select components. 451 tires are easy to find on-line (fyi, your "20 inch" wheels are actually closer to 18.6"=etrto 622). I don't see much difference between 9 speed and 10 or 11 speed performance but a HUGE difference in price (I can get 9 speed cassettes and chains for $25 but higher speed is 2-5x as much).
There's a difference alright. Not so much on the flat. But on steep hills oh yeah. Ive ridden both the D9 and X11. That 5lbs less weight and superior gearing and less friction on the X11. Shows itself when you hit a long steep incline. The D9 will take alot more out of your legs. The word is EFFICIENCY. That's what you are paying the big bucks for.
The same reason nobody enters the Tour de France with a 25lb Trek FX2. But a 15lb pinarello costing over 10 times as much. They want a chance of winning..
Nice upgrades on the p10 you have on, i have a p10 and also a brompton. True, you have the p10 for speeds and the brompton for commuting just like myself.
Great review, and a great bike.
I think folders are all about compromises, and you go with the type that fits your priorities at the time.
A few years ago I used to take a 20 inch wheel folder out in my car and ride home, and the ride quality was pretty good for a folder.
My full size road bike was always more stable and felt better to ride, but of course it was more difficult to fit in my car.
Nowadays the ability to fold really compact has become a higher priority, and I got a brompton.
To be fair the 20 inch bike would fold down reasonably compact, but the brompton is so compact that it will go almost anywhere, and the trolley wheels make it much more portable around pedestrian areas and big stores etc.
I'm not attached to the brompton because of the name, but because of what it can do, and I guess the evident build quality it has.
If my priorities and my situation change in the future, such that a super-compact fold becomes less important, I'll happily swap the brompton for a 20 inch wheel bike to get a more stable ride- and the tern range would be on the shortlist.
I love my Tern s11 and x22 🙂
Awesome bikes. Congrats.😀👍
Very cool machine, Brian.
I have already 3 bikes (one 20 inch compact Pedelec, a 29 inch MTB Cube Race One and a 28 inch vintage aluminium frame road racer from 1995) but I want that small folder....may be later
Awesome. As I always say “ you can never have too many bicycles”.😀👍
@@ibikeunfolded Yes!!! Cheers
I am a X11 owner. This is a very good review 👍
Change the brake-pads. Real nice bike, Brian. I mean, really nice. I'd love one but I'm too poor. I could save but I want some experience with my cheap folder for a few years--then maybe I can get something like this beauty. Have a good day at work partner.
I got the X11 2021 version, I like it just what you said…very good quality bike!
Love those arial shots! This review really impressed me, - like your race in the city which you may not have been aware of. "Heart-attack hill." You are becoming a real 'cool' folding bike Vlogger, Brian. Oh, I may have missed it, but the airation in you helmet - ? a result of that spill you took?
I think that your experiences with foldies are valuable too
Great review. Wish you the best.
5:37
Beyond efficiency, there are issues of safety and durability if cheap/crap bikes being ridden hard on a regular basis.
Wheel hubs, spokes, cranks, frame, pedals, seats, handlebars can/will all break with a taller & stronger human cranking away.
A "fast bike" may best be attributed to a bike built to go fast speeds safely and without cheap parts nor extra aero drag getting in the way.
Yes, ive broken the parts mentioned above.
I plan on getting a Brompton C
+ Having to make diet changes to stay below the recommended weight limit.
why did you go as big on the chainring. 63t I thought 53t was big enough no?
also when you purchased the Scram Force rear derailleur , did you have to change the Shimano shifter that was originally on the p10
Why don't you like a carbon crank shaft? Are they more fragile than aluminum?
Carbon is strong but brittle. Hit the right way during a crash I can and will crack. I cracked the frame an expensive carbon fiber mountain bike during a crash…. Not a fan.
Great review as per usual.Now tempted to investigate further but the fold nags me.🤔
It's not a Brompton, but all in all not too bad😀
I just bought a P20, Nice bike, I love it.
Beautiful bike! The best one I could find in my country was the Verge N8. Love the ride quality, and it feels very stiff and agile while riding, almost as good as any hybrid bike.
Only con for me is the bike is flimsy when folded and keeps falling down. I don't fold it much anyway, so not a biggie.
Love your channel! One of the only ones dedicated to folders :)
I took at look at the specs of the P10 .
It takes a 10 speed chain so you could put a quality hard wearing one on it like a YBN SLA101. It comes with a KMC X10 which is not a bad chain. This also explains why the derailleur is decent as 10 speed bikes are not bargain basement. I like the Jagwire slick cable housings. The cables are not specified but I have Jagwire slick stainless on my bike which I polished myself to super slickness. They do make a difference compared to rough galvanized steel cables.
The wheels may be strong but the allowed rider + bike + other stuff is only 120Kg so if you are chunky ......
I had at look at those Vuelta SE flat chainrings as I am assuming thats the model that Brian has fitted. Annoyingly Vuelta only says they are made of aircraft aluminum which says to me that they probably don't want you to actually know what they are made of ( probably 6061 ) ?
Great content sir, subscribed
I was looking at the Verge D8 at REI. It is half the price of a Brompton. It is also 5" wider and 2" longer than a Zizzo Via including its fenders. Hmmm. I don't see me owning more than one folder--I just want one to do it all. I need to be able to check it at the airport.
Well all the folders I have are relatively the same size folded(more or less). The Brompton has the smallest fold, but any folder works well for travel assuming it's packed well to avoid damage. Via is pretty small folded, but not much smaller that the forte or the liberate. Verge is definitely a little bigger than the zizzos for sure.
The Verges will go in most large swivel suitcases after you remove the front wheel.
I’ve ridden Dahons and Terns for 20 years and gone through several sets of wheels through brake wear on the rims. Yes please to discs!!
Chain Reaction are currently offering the Tern Verge X11 at a 10% discount in my home town, Belfast. I'm tempted to go for it.
Another good video. Would you be able to do an in-depth comparison video of each bicycle in folded form? Curious to see more views of length and width. I am thinking about a folded bike for a commute the includes a bus ride. Your input provides good insight for me.
Also any chance to do a video regarding how well each bicycle rolls or pushed on its wheels in folded form? I know the Brompton can be pushed in folded form and curious about how your other folding bicycles compare. Thanks again and always look forward to your videos!
I am doing a video of all the bikes I own soon. This video will have a folded comparison of each bike. As far as the rolling capabilities of each I will do a video about that as well---good idea👍😀
@@ibikeunfolded possible to add special feature on what each of the foldable bikes can be modified to improve its performance, stability, comfort.. Etc, when comparing?
I have the X11. Fantastic bike!
Great review Brian , I hope you're doing well. I did not hear a mention of weight capacity. The ZIZZO Forte,as you know, is engineered for up to 300 LBs, total rider + cargo weight capacity. Great for expedient bikepacking / touring for a folder who's rider is a Clydesdale and their bathtub has stretchmarks( me post Covid lockdown😁). I'm hoping the VERGE P10 has a comparable weight limit as the
Brian, I am 81 and I have a Tern Verge P10. Do you think I'm too old to bicycle? Also, your criticism at the end was a little confusing as to which model you were talking about. My bike was $1399 and the X11 was $2500. But this year, the componentry on the P10 is different and the price is $1150. I agree with you about the tire size and I might not have bought the bike if I knew that tires were so hard to come by. I also wanted wider tires which I bought so I have an extra pair. Getting back to age, I've been nervous about riding, not sure why. Any advice? The video is great and it's also inspiring. Take care, yo. A
Greetings from Indonesia! Such a great review! Prices for the x11 here is half the price of the brompton 😁
Indonesia is different Mas Bro hehehe
Are you still riding your Brompton’s ?, I haven’t seen any resent videos.
I have a fast folding bike in the UK. I have 1 x 8, disc brakes and low profile tires but find that folders can lose momentum quick.
The X11 has the nickname lights peed. And when you ride one you understand why.
I had a cheap folder. And my 6.5 mile commute on and 85% uphill grade. Used to take me an average of 30 mins. On the X11 it takes me an average of 26 mins.
This baby can MOVE. I've hit 28mph (45kph) on the flat with a slight tail wind. And on hills that used to kill me. The X11 floats up them.
You only understand why this baby costs the big bucks when you ride one for a while.
1:13….just curious how you get this camera angle w/o holding a camera? Lol
It's a 360 camera reframed to edit out the selfie stick.
@@ibikeunfolded where did you put the selfie stick? Both of your hands are on the handlebar.
@@ibikeunfolded never mind. I think i see you holding the selfie stick on your right hand by the thumb and forefinger.
@@vincentnnyc you got it 😀👍
@@vincentnnyc I was going to say : he has a third arm.
Tankyou for lern me new tings
You're welcome😀👍
Are you going to do a review of your CHPT3 🤔
Sure😀👍 I am just considering how to do a good review on that bike. I want to do a special video for the chapter 3.
what is your thoughts on the helix bike compared to verge 10? performance wise
Can the handlepost be adjustable up and down on P10 for different size of riders? Thanks
nice review.
Thank you, I appreciate you😀👍
can liberate change to 62 chain ring?
Not sure. I put a 60 tooth on it originally, then I dropped it down to a 58 tooth. 60 worked just fine with the exception of dropping the chain every once in a while.
@@ibikeunfolded 58 chain ring with same cassette? Can increase to improve uphill capability?
@@dlorion1377 Use an elliptical CR instead, Litepro makes an affordable 56T.
where do you buy the tires 451 and tubes? Thanks
Hello, do you know where I can buy the p 10 and that they make shipments
Awesome review of the upgraded P10 Brian! Getting mine soon :).
Anyway, with that 60T chaninring and 11-42T cassette, what chain length/ no. of links are you using? Thinking about upgrading to that set up.
Thanks Brian! I'm a new viewer, with no folder experience, very interested in either the p10 or a BYB. Last bike I bought (Other then my everyday 2 wheeled SUV, a 33 kilo Panasonic Gyutto pedal assist electric) was a 1998 Gary Fisher MTB. I would LOVE to see you review the Tern BYB. What are the chances?
Pretty good, I plan on getting one soon😀👍
how about steep hills on these terns?? can they climb?
I climbed some massive hills in boulder with it and I must say it climbed the best of all my folding bikes.
Definitely prefer the Brompton but would love this for solo blasts and faster rides
The Brompton doesn't touch a P10. It's more about the name and rep with Bromptons. They are the best fold. And thats where it ends.I needed a fast bike that was foldable and could eat up hills. And the P10 is a boss for that. It's about return for your effort. If you see some of the hills where I live. It would kill you to get up them on a Brompton. Even roadies have to work. This bike takes them. And you don't kill your legs to do it.
I had one... returned it and got a brompton... the Tern is clunky!
Ever thought about the tern eclipse series?
Thank you for such good review. quick question - have you ever ridden tern eclipse x22 - if yes, what are our thoughts? - i am deciding between the verge x11 and the eclipse x22.
I've ridden both. The Eclipse is a few miles an hour faster. But the X11 is that much more impressive given its size. I got a top speed of 31mph on the Eclipse X22. And I got 29mph on the X11 which is my bike. And I weigh 80kg. Someone 10kg or more lighter would get even more speed. And I've never been on a bike that eats up hills like an X11. It flys up them better than alot of road bikes. It's AWESOME.
I just wish there is a solution to the flat bar. It just doesn't feel like a "road/perfoance bike" without feel of the drop bar or even a bull horn.
EDIT:
I ended up getting one. With inner bar ends giving me extra hand positions, I have to say, I'm loving the bike. Still too heavy for the price, but it's the bike I grab when I go out riding for fun. I also have a Brompton and I wouldn't call it fast. And i can change a flat on the verge much easier than i can on the brompton.
Hi, what is your point of view on the Tern Eclipse P20 ?
How would you compare Tern to Dahon? I tried a Dahon D6 and found the folding very clunky and there were issues with the seat slipping down. This makes me a little leery of folding bikes as it’s my only experience with folders.
What really bums me out about the X11 is Tern mixing a sram drivetrain with shimano brakes. I really want/wanted to convert the X11 to dropbars/bullhorns but bc of the mixed components, they made it a lot more expensive to do.
Also, if they can figure out how to fold a bike frame in half, I wish they'd develop dropbars/bullhorns that also folded up. This bike is supposedly their "no holds barred" bike, but opting for a more compact fold shouldn't have thwarted a more aerodynamic riding position. It's especially annoying when you know they've made the Verge X18 and X30h...
On the brakes: I half-agree. The rear brakes locking up as instantly as they do kept me from crashing into someone unexpectedly walking right across the locked of bike lane. My teenager/bmx days had me instinctually pull the right brake, but thankfully, not the left. In the moment, I totally thought we were going to collide, but thankfully the bike and I just stopped. I definitely would've flown over had I used the front brake at all.
Interestingly, it appears that the Verge does have mounting for rim brakes although that hole may only be for fenders. Not sure. But if it's possible, having a front rim brake and rear h. disc brake might be an interesting, albeit, funny looking combo.
I have the X18 it's super awesome. The governor of performance folders. Hits 25mph easily.
@@fender1000100 Just out of curiosity, do you ride a full sized road bike regularly at all?
Hey Brian, I was analysing the modification you made on P10. I wonder whether the cost of your current bike compared to Tern x11 is similar. Your wide Crankset is however a brilliant idea. It's like a tern x13 which is not in the market. If the cost is the same, then the only difference is it's performance which you are the only one who can compare at this stage. I wish you can get a tern x11 and compair it's controlled performance with your modified p10.
I wish I could but it be honest i am allocating money for other bikes at the moment. I have rode the x 11 and I know the body is the same. The brakes are a little better on the x11 which are over kill on the p10. The cranks are carbon on the x11, but I’d rather have alloy cranks anyway. The rest are some minor cosmetic differences like seat and grips. My next Tern purchase is the Tern byb.
@@ibikeunfolded Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated. I totally agree with you. I believe buying a tern x11 would be a waste of money since you have a modified p10. But hope you make a video of head to head comparison of these bikes in the future. I feel like your channel is a version of top gear channel of fold-bikes.
There are so many ways of comparing these bikes and its fun and educative to watch. Well done and looking forward to see your tern byb. Cheers.
So I’m slightly unsure what bike you have or which is for me. You modded that bike so its not what one would buy. So is the X11 then?
It’s basically an x11
Just curious. I don't know anything about carbon fibre, but why wouldn't you want carbon fibre on a bike?
Because it's a brittle material. Carbon fiber, contrary to popular belief is not that strong, it's just has a lot of torsional rigidity. If a carbon fiber bike falls over and hits a rock the right way, the frame can crack. Steel is still the best material for a bike.
if you had to recommend one utilitarian folder, which one?
For utility, I would say a modified zizzo forte or a bike Friday. Zizzo forte is a 300 pound load capacity bike. The bike Friday can be ordered to meet your load needs as well.
@@ibikeunfolded I had a bike Friday and their 20 inch wheeled bikes were packable but not really foldable. I do want 20 inch wheels. I don’t need to carry that much. Just want it to be fun and carry my lunch (that is what I meant by utilitarian).
Any thoughts on the Tern? Love you channel. Thanks for info.
@@Sharetheroad3333 a tern BYB is a great bike. I will be getting one in a month or so. My bike Friday does fold it’s not really what you would call a quick folder, but it does fold.😃👍
@@ibikeunfolded ya. I understand regarding the Friday.
I didn’t want to pay 1,000 bucks though. I was hoping maybe a tern on the lower end would be ok.
My way to work and back home is average 18 miles and almost half of it have soft hills and a couple of them are hard. Which of the terns would you advise me to consider?
The P10 is an AWESOME hill climber.
how much do u ride per day and how much time does it take ?
Depends. I commute back and forth to work 5 times a week. So that's 10 miles each way. I ride my bike to run errands or to go anywhere which ranges from 5-10 miles on top of the commute. On my weekends I ride 30-80 miles a day depending on where I'm going and what in doing. My commute to work can take anywhere from 35 min to 1 hr depending on weather and wind.
Let me preface this by saying the bike likely wasn’t designed for this. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxwC0IIeIomGQVeBWg-kKJaToZkLEFIA2W I picked this up for a trip to the Rockies where I didn’t want to mess with a rental car. The bike packs down great and was easily carried through TSA and through the airport. It’s a bit heavy to tote around all day but for smaller airports it was manageable. I gate checked the bike twice with no issues and it held up great. Overall I did around 100 miles through the Rockies and the only issue I had was the left crank arm kept falling off. Due to the remoteness I couldn’t source any locktite so I just kept tightening it every 10-15 miles.The bike is reasonably comfortable for 4-6 hours of riding with a Brooks saddle. For reference im 6’ 200lbs and felt like the bike fit me pretty well. The brakes are decent and the tires held up great. Overall for the price I’d say it’s a great commuter bike but I’d swap out the chainring if you plan to do a lot of hills.
I love that particular bike for group rides with the roadies. 😁
Can you do a review of the Birdy
If I can get my hands on one. 👍😀
@@ibikeunfolded Thanks!
What is the delivery time?
Would you tour with this bike?
Never in my life have I ever pulled a bike brake on riding one handed. Mind you I must be old school - I dont go around filming on a bike. Being 64 might account for that. I owned one folding bike - Dahon - great bike I folded it twice. The rest of my ownership it stayed up., I sold it and bought a hybrid - Giant - with comfy front suspension.
I do not find the P10 on the Turn website. Is the P10 a discontinued or foreign-sale-only model?
Foreign sale onlybi am told. The x11 is still available in the states.🤷♂️
What are all the folding bikes that you own?
Brompton fold nice and the best at it, but it ride quality is crap. Any 20" wheel folding bike ride better than the brompton. I have the Tern verge x20, for me , its the best folding bike.
Can we climb a mountain pass with this bike.
With the gearing of the rear cassette......yes😁👍
Where to buy a kickstand?
would be nice if you could actually find one!
Badass bike
Do you still have your chapter 3?
Yes I do.😀👍
Don't forget the D9
Brought kickstand and cargo rack. Easy to get 451 tyres online. Learn to handle breaks. Price worth it.
funny to see that guy on road bike trying to catch up😅
Disc brakes are needed in wet weather
Brompton need to innovate. Start with titanium frame and try to move the 16" space to tubeless rims.
I have the verge d9. Overall fantastic bike but yeah every one will have it's drawbacks
*I disagree with your "fast bike" theory since once you run the last gear out on any bike it's not going to go any faster. I have a cheap $400 Kespor K7 20" folding bike that I bought like new in used condition from a guy on offerup for $150. On this bike stock giving it all I've got I couldn't get the bike past 13 MPH, came with Shimano 14-32 freewheel, cheap shimano 7 speed Tourney RD, cheap square taper bottom bracket, slow rolling 1.5" cheap tires, etc, etc. This bike was slow when I bought it, I did many upgrades on this bike including Shimano hydraulic disc brakes, Shimano Deore XT groupset, 9-32T rear cassette Litepro Aero 406 wheels, Continental Contact Speed 1.1" tires, 80T chainring, Shimano hollowtech bottom bracket, etc. Giving it all I've got on this bike now I can easily maintain 30 MPH, as opposed to 13 MPH max when I bought the bike. So now it's a fast bike and components do actually make a bike a fast one. Just like the old saying goes: "You can't polish a turd" and you can't outrun a fast high end component bike on a cheap component bike either.*
You can EASILY maintain 30mph on 406 wheels? I don't believe that. Unless you weigh 140lbs or less. And the bike is sub 20lbs. That's not gonna happen.
Even fit roadies with 15lb carbon bikes have to work hard to hold 30mph on the flat. For a bike with 406 wheels. You will never cruise at more than 21--23mph no matter what the set up. You might hit 30mph if you really go for it. But you aren't gonna hold that for long with 406 wheels. Be sure of that.
The difference in drag and rolling resistance from even 25mph to 30mph is HUGE.
451 wheels and you will be able to hold 23 to 25mph depending on your WEIGHT and fitness level.
So unless you can make a video to prove your claim. Its not happening. And an 80t chainring will never get you up the hills where I live. Thats ridiculous gearing. You would need an 11 to 46 rear cassette to have any chance. 58 to 60 teeth. Is the maximum size that's gonna work on a small folding bike. To get good speed on the flat 21 to 26mph. And give you the ability to climb without killing yourself.
Moulton Bikes = High performance folding (actually only separable, still really nice though)