Does History Progress?
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
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Chapters:
00:00 - Does History Progress?
06:30 - One: The Idea of Progress
13:12 - Two: An Order of History
17:57 - Three: Reformations, Enlightenments, and Revolutions
25:18 - Four: The Varieties of Freedom
28:37 - Five: The Causes of Freedom
35:29 - Six: Conclusions into the Future
Script and Sources:
www.thenandnow.co/2023/10/26/...
The problem with history is that there is so much of it that you can build-a-bear any narrative you would like to.
😢😊
There are sides to every story yours, mine, and the truth
@@43_xa_ashutoshsononey32 philosophically no one knows what they don’t know. people don’t argue empirical evidence unless explaining why it does what it does. In the world of eye witness there should be enough empirical evidence that shows just how obscured people see the world. My favorite example is. When you don’t know something is there and your brain fills in the picture with what it assumes should be there, and once you know it’s there it almost magically appears out of nowhere, and after that you will always notice it there. We could be in the same observable room and you see something different than me but there could be things you and me both don’t see but exists. It’s called science, ain’t it a crazy ride. Hopefully someone uncovers more and more for all of us to see and then we can believe. You know things , I know things, and there are things to learn. Might argue about it along the way. It’s a process.
that's corect but there still is a history no matter what. Things happened in some way leading to this. That's enough to start considering it i suppose.
That's only three sides. I have one. Its a bright side!..Yeah, that's it. I never hurt a flea. I checked, its true. I've crushed bed bugs because the landlord lied. That's his story, not mine..."I FORGOT MY UMBRELLA"...
Full quote: "The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk." is from Hegel's work "Philosophy of Right" meaning that wisdom/understanding comes only in historical hindsight. Indeed it's bittersweet.
Why do you think that is the full 'quote'? You're just 'quoting' the English translations which added the 'fullness'. "Die Eule der Minerva beginnt erst mit der einbrechenden Dämmerung ihren Flug" is the full quote, and the translation is up to the reader, but the meaning ought to remain as was presented in the video.
@@neoepicurean3772thanks dad
Hegel was such an interesting character
@@neoepicurean3772do you feel as though you may have gone a bit overboard in your reply? I am but a skulker in Internet forums but I must tell you, I think so.
@@crypticscrutiny1153 Haha :D I've had two classes this semester, one on Wittgenstein, the other on Nietzsche. So I've had a guts full of German translations. I was only pointing out that the quote given in the video was closer to the German (arguably) that the 'full' quote offered in the comment above. I'm really not much of a skulker or sulker :D
Thanks. It's a fascinating area of thought. On the whole, many things do seem to have improved (medicine, science, technology), while others seem to waver endlessly back & forth (politics, religion). I'd have to say history does not progress strictly linearly - at least not consistently as a single thing. And we can certainly be knocked backwards by various of its aspects, from wars to diseases to natural disasters & more. I do think that we often reach a sort of crux, or nexus point, wherein it becomes virtually inevitable that someone will discover or invent a certain thing. Airplanes are a good example. Fossil fuel engines were there, the ability to work lightweight aluminum was there. It was a matter of who did it first more than when. Someone was definitely going to come up with the bomb; there's no doubt of it. But there are cyclical aspects as well. We veer back & forth between democracy & tyranny quite regularly. Progress is a slippery concept. As Frank Herbert put it, "The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future". Well, ouch! Thanks again. tavi
Oo I agree with this
What a great F Herbert quote! I have read so many of his books but I don't think I have come across that quote-- where is it from please?🙏🏾
Thank you for consistently providing material for contemplation and social discourse, that is well reasoned, rooted in historical fact, and clearly presented. A notification from you is always an invitation to examine possibilities, and marvel at the impressive range of the human experience. You and your team are a welcome inspiration.🖤🇨🇦
Then & Now is an excellent explainer both then and now!
These essays are phenomenal and were I still teaching I'd recommend them as guiding structures of historical/philosophical inquiry
I recently stumbled on your channel. And I have been binging it ever since. The video's are well made, and I do like the often nuanced approach.
But one thing I noticed, which is rare for YT channels I think, is how you use pauses (with music and imagery, but no narrative). I think it gives audience time to breathe. Let it sink in, what just has been said. I really appreciate those pauses (you seem to have implemented those, very early on in your YT career too).
The story with penicillin is out of context. Many times in history, in many countries it was noticed that mold can inhabit deseases. Also Fleming abandoned an idea of its mass ipmlication. Only later two scientists tinkered with it and thank to them humanity saw mass production of penicillin
Oh come on
Jorge Luis Borges wrote a short story about a town where at least one person had to stay awake each night, the idea that the town would disappear if no one was awake to keep the idea of the town alive. History is just a succession of overlapping narratives. Reality is just a collective hunch.
Hell No! Reality is Reality and sooner or later it will show itself one way or another. Relativism is our worst enemy.
Platonic idealism
What is the name of the story?
I think it's interesting that: The Sustainable Society Index, a ranking produced by the nonprofit Sustainable Society Foundation, used 3 well-being categories to compare countries: human, environmental and economic. Within the categories are: Purpose well-being, social well-being, financial well-being, community well-being, and physical well-being. But my word-search of the report showed no instances of the word "liberty" or "freedom". I was stunned since I, like you, would make liberty the primary criteria or at least in the top 2 criteria.
Freedom is such an easy concept to interpret in bad faith. You have the freedom to make money in that like, the goverbment leta you be rich, but that freedom is effectively meaninglesa for a lot of people
Freedom is implied, not expressed, because Freedom is not an absolute. It is a cultural construction. For instance, in some Buddhist societies, if you have taken care of your family's needs, you can enter a monastery, and retreat from the world. But in Western societies, the economy demands that one must now face a lifetime of having to work, because the cost of retirement is being individualised and the ability to save enough to retire is being eroded by the profit motive in capitalism. So ultimately, retirement may for some may no longer be a choice.
So, each society makes choices of what freedom is, and the powerful in them spend time, effort, and money, to influence such choices. Hence, you have people in poverty in the richest countries in the world.
We are co-creators of our identity and reality. In this, we are never free. We are bound in civilisation like oxen hitched to a plough. There are benefits, but there are distinct limitations, that may, or may not, promote freedom in any meaningful sense.
what do you mean by liberty/freedom? there are no consensus definitions. it's pretty clear that we don't have libertarian free-will. variety, options, difference, 'degrees of freedom' in the world don't seem free in any sense to me, just a fact about the plurality and disunity of the world.
@@real_pattern I would argue that at minimum, freedom means political and civil human rights: freedom of speech, press, and assembly; freedom from slavery; freedom from government arrest or punishment without justification in law; and freedom from vague or excessive law. The last one is not named on any charter of such, but I'd say it's a necessary companion to the one preceding it, because the "rule of law" is only a restraint on power so long as there aren't too many or too-broad laws.
You are the genius 👏. Yet again you made a video that expanded my mind a bit more and makes me watch it over and over again.
At 37:30, I hear what could be the whole guiding philosophy of your channel stated so clearly, why modern policy-makers and historians need to be in conversation. Twice in the video I shouted “he said the thing!” when the words “then and now” came up. By the end of the video, I could appreciate that choice to be so overt with that theme. This video’s like a Then and Now thesis.
To suggest that there is any inherent tendency for history to "progress" is smacking of teleology, which smacks of religion, which smacks of superstition and a level of idealism that is unwarranted by the historical facts. We move ahead in some ways, get worse in others. The technology and creature comforts generally improve over time, but the planet degrades and the capacity for destruction has grown immensely. To a large degree, we are still fighting many of the same bitter battles that have persisted throughout recorded history.
Progress is not a guarantee or natural design. Eventual decay is probably the more genuine built-in design, in a world governed by increasing entropy.
I maintain that my palaeolithic ancestors had it all, and so-called progress is a vast and painful detour that, if things go well, will bring us right back where we started. It seems just as likely ‘progress’ will end up killing us all.
Wow! Very well worded. I've been thinking of native Australians a lot and how the British were quick to call them primitive and take their land. Yet they did not overpopulate and neighboring mobs fought but should we call it a war? Many monuments around for first explorers....
That needed leading and shown to water holes on their deathbeds but if we recognise the whites following native trails we are still not recognising the aborigines as humans or equals.
"History is nothing but the progress of the consciousness of freedom." -Hegel. I can't stop thinking about this since the moment I first read it.
The consciousness of freedom? What does that mean?
@@706easy Becoming aware of our need for freedom.
Because it is patently false?
@@zwatwashdc How is that "patently" false?
"Progress" only makes sense relative to a value system. Thus it begs the questions of "whose value system?" and "why theirs?", and also questions regarding the imposition of value systems. Even if we take a seemingly-agreeable and simple value like "get everyone fed", we could argue that while _recently_ (last 200 years or so) there has been much progress, the invention of agriculture was, in another way, a regress (it permitted there to be more, but _less well-fed,_ people, than hunter/gatherer lifestyles). Moreover, what progress we have made is fragile and presently conditioned upon ecologically and thermodynamically unsustainable social systems. So whether it represents true progress in the long run, i.e. a lasting change to the conditions of humankind, is yet to be seen. In other domains, the idea of progress is much harder to ascertain: if we take something more abstract like "justice", then it depends heavily on where you are in the world. Some places have achieved more (e.g. Northern Europe) but at the active expense of others (e.g. Africa) while leaving some (e.g. the Middle East) stuck in conservative, oppressive hierarchies.
Value systems develop because we are a social species. Cooperation increases survival and social rules increase cooperation. These 'rules' are a matter of constant negotiation.
You should do an episode on 'systems thinking'
I’m glad this loosely discusses a question I’ve had for a long time, what is freedom?
penicillin doesn't cure gonorrhoea anymore. its typically treated with intramuscular ceftriaxone now - which is a third generation ceflasporin that used to be used to be reserved to treat more serious illnesses just 10 years ago.
Well done! Thank you!
My man, your videos keep me going.
On October 16, 2023 I said on my blog that:
"Since the invasion of Iraq ordered by George W. Bush Jr., the empire of politically organized violence has completely dominated the American economy and society, deformed journalism and corrupted state institutions until mortally poisoning democracy in the USA. Israel continues the example of its main diplomatic, military and economic partner.
Without diplomatic ambitions or civilizational prospects, these two countries wander from one military conflict to another because the war has become a continuation by other means of the private profits of armaments manufacturers."
A few days later Vladimir Putin stated that the USA benefits from wars: “just business”.
It's good to know that Putin agrees with me. It's bad that this historical reality is minimized by the Western press, because the owners of communication companies are also shareholders in armaments factories. There is no lightness possible in a historical process that pushes civilization towards its negation because war is a profitable business. The barbarity becomes more evident when we notice that caring about Palestinian victims is becoming a crime in the USA, UK and Europe.
It's not a crime to care about Palestinians. It is a crime to ignore Israeli victims.
The judge from blood meridian comes to mind.
Quoting Putin is like quoting Hitler. He literally says an entire people- Ukrainians - do not actually exist. A bizarre excuse for a land-grab. Why didn't you mention this 'limited military operation'? Is it just 'just business' for Russia?
What your doing here is good for civilization. We must be informed, not hypnotized, as we push into this communication revolution. Bravo
I learned a lot and they’re always thought provoking …I liked the layering / cross reference etc , you’re a charismatic presenter too…that winged back chair distracted me, in a good way, it made think of Thomas Bernhard’s novel
The Woodcutters…
Have you read Bookchin's Ecology of Freedom? His section on the "Genealogy of Freedom" tackles a lot of these subjects from a somewhat different angle.
Well presented! History must progress and learn from the past.
one of the most valuable creators on youtube
Really nice video and good food for thought. A couple thoughts: not to take anything away from liberty as an essential core value of society, but, as the French Revolution rightfully touted, where did we leave fraternity and equality at? 🙂Also, it is indeed pretty hard not to conflate human progress with technological advancement and it seems to be many people's natural response, while forgetting that societal evolution has many more facets to it that seem to be sometimes not taken into account when discussing where we are, where we were, and where we're heading.
Only 10 minutes in and I'm impressed, tells me this is gonna be good. Thanks for sharing your content with us. Already so far I just resonate with that attitude toward science and reason, but also taking a moment to notice the good. Better it's out there than not at all.
OP has made this education ebb and flow too
Like a smooth dessert
I find some times we focus to much on individuals in history instead of all the work by all the people that led up to it and its impacts good and bad on society and the environment
Civil progress is fraught with civil failures
I haven't even watched the first part of this yet lol, give me a couple hours, but I'm sure this is gonna be a great couple of videos
Give it some time, and antibiotics will be a thing of the past
Wild Animals do not need them, Farm Animals are given them as routine!
@@jamesx9881 Yup. It's a bist dishonest that people claim doctors and patients use them too much when most antibiotics are used for livestock.
I’m so surprised by your conclusion. I felt inspired by an idea yesterday only to see parts of that idea exemplified at the end of this video today. The connection of a germ theory to idea-viruses. Imagine a world where we make the leap from miasma theory to germ theory except in the domain of ideas. Surely ideas have caused as much if not more death and suffering than any microscopic organism. How much harder will it be to discover a ideological pathogen than it was to see a microscopic bacteria? How much smaller are ideas than a germ?
Fantastic doc!! Although…. could one consider the regression of the medieval period the building of potential energy that pushed Europe to the first ever Industrial Revolution and beyond? Just a thought
I haven't watched the whole thing but I am making more of a note for myself on the problems of liberty as well, in a strange way some people out there might argue we have too much liberty today, or that societies promotion of liberty, the freedom to do anything, has it's downsides in the promotion of living which is overly harmful - for instance with the normalisation of casual sexual relationships, or the promotion of social media, or even the celebration of eating unrestrained - leading to the acceptance of unhealthy food eating habits, etc. some argue, not necessarily entirely myself, that these pushes for liberation destroy the social fabric societies have been woven with, which only leads to chaos and confusion.
The human experience is paramount throughout history. And human rights and liberty is valued highly within the experience, as is justice. Unfortunately the experience also highly values things like “happiness” which can be very different and very dangerous for us. Is choice best above all else? Or environmentalism? Liberty is best but regulation makes liberty possible
This is absolutely, brilliantly done.
There is a quote I read recently and it has caused me to look at things quite differently. In the Arcades Project N 2.2, Benjamin writes: It may be considered one of the methodological objectives of this work to demonstrate a historical materialism which has annihilated within itself the idea of progress. Just here, historical materialism has every reason to distinguish itself sharply from bourgeois habits of thought. It's founding concept is not progress but actualization.
Contrasting progress with actualization is a very interesting thought experiment.
Thank you for your fine work.
Nice quote. Progress is different from teleology in that it is never sated -- it is increasingly destructive means without an end. Or, perhaps, no end humanity is prepared for.
Progress, progression... iteration, counting, it is a concept that only applies to algorithms. Processes that already have set steps... Procedures.
Like with Charles Darwin's theory, we have come to understand it more as a naturally occurring selective pressure caused by circumstances in the environment. History is much the same. It's just that we have language and writing...
Can’t find the bibliography in the description below…?
Beautiful video
Just brilliant.
So well researched and well made video. Thank you so much
How is it that we hear about Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations a lot, and he wrote "read, write and account" multiple times, and 'education' Eighty Times but we do not hear the Capitalists advocating mandatory accounting in the schools?
Interesting.
Fun fact:
Steam Engine was known in Ancient Greece. It was invented by Hero of Alexandria, and called Aeolipile
33:00 AH, AH! He said it! He said it!
00:03:25 _...people killing, stealing, shouting and doing the things that historians usually record while on the banks unnoticed. People build homes, make love, raise children, sing songs, write poetry, and even whittle statues._
That's because they are the same people.
Wow - great video - loved it! Tip: When you show a quote like the one by Will Durant - you have to put his name on the screen because without this, the transcript and captions called him "Will Girond". I just happened to know who said it.
We record only the bad stuff in history because we obviously figured the good stuff. It's the bad stuff that we need to re-analyse. Once we figure it, we don't record that we did, we just don't have records of the bad thing happening.
humanity is the. reluctant ape.
Filled with the endless novelty.
Contentment is an essential factor in happiness, so you need to try to be satisfied with the food, clothes and shelter you have.
I think the problem with historical progress is that everyone defines progress differently, and is therefore able to say they’re correct. So what exactly is progress?
Damn this video deserves more views
2:25
Well, I would note that Aristotle's definition of _Touche_ (Luck, Chance) is just that. An _unintended consequence_ of someone's action. The example he gives is going to the market, and running into someone who owes him money -- he promptly pays it back. That he ran into him was a deliberate consequence of his action, though unintended. That's called chance, by Aristotle.
In this regard, I would also note that the way the ancients thought of fate and luck was FAR different than we living in the shadow of that ubiquitous philosophy of existence: modern mathematical physics!
Is it desperation for getting famous or some sort of psychosis level of social media only some are susceptible to?
I think technology and knowledge progresses, but human behavior is cyclical. Human behavior has been similar over time no matter how much technology has progressed.
considering pinker lied about the oxy finding to justify the leviathan theory i would take all from him as misleading
The problem is the reason needs a reason.
And vice versa
I found these two videos very interesting. We all tell ourselves stories about the state of the world. Generally people seem to come down to either seeing civilization as getting better or worse. For me and my wife the year 2000 would go on to define our outlooks. At 10 years old I remember having a wall chart showing humanities achievements. My wife on the other hand was in Church with the pastor praying straight through midnight just incase they got raptured.
I do wish I was a student of yours. Top show
Well I guess we all are
Does history progress? Well, that depends on where your from.
Love you
13:15 ish good message.
Good video! Liberty, Equality, Brotherhood. :-)
Before watching.
To the point that the civilization collapses. We would lose so much knowledge before when civs would collapse that we couldn’t build on it. I think when the nuclear war hits and we all collapse again we will be sent back to what Afghanistan is now. The Stone Age.
This deserves more views
this type of comment has been on youtube for 10+ years, why do you post this if i may ask?
@@maketf2343 honestly because I liked this video a lot and commenting can help the algorithm.
I always thought penicillin came from a melon?
This is a classic
You could argue that technology has led to a regress, therein it could implode through a transcendental object beginning a more rapid, modern and human/humane/ecologically wise stage of economic development and much more. In my opinion nature itself has been building this thing.
It does, twords hell
""All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual." ~ Emma Goldman
7:43 "intersubjective"? So, just subjective? I don't see what makes "intersubjectivity" different from subjectivity. Ideas are always held individually, after all. Influenced by others, of course, but that's true for virtually all subjective ideas we hold.
Progresoa hobeto ulertzeko Hegelen hontzari hegan egiten utzi aurretik Walter Benjaminen aingeruari lurrera jaisten lagundu behar diogu.
29:13 meta-reference!
amazing
One idea of wisdom is simple rules and traditions that come from knowledge of higher order consequences of actions that are beyond the immediate consideration of the individual. There's things within the lifetime and so within their interests such as healthy eating and then there is wisdom beyond a single or multiple generations where the consequences are not obvious or important to the agents involved in the present. Each generation that has not experienced the bad consequences of certain behaviours is likely to repeat them. History is one way of passing down this wisdom. Ray Dalio's work is largely a study of this from a western economic point of view and the building up of debts and explains the tradition of usury being banned in Abrahamic traditions. Many other indigenous traditions will be around preserving things like water and biodiversity so they are prepared for the flood or famine than only occurs every few hundred years.
This is a rather idealized version of progress and liberty. Much of our modern prosperity is due to scientific and technological advancement. Without it, democracy would look quite different. It was a aspiration arising from the failings of monarchy. But democracy and tyranny of the majority also has its limitations. We may soon wish to limit the power of our Democratic citizens over us - since they are not committed to freedom of those they disagree with.
This feels like Cool Worlds but history instead of space
Prediction: not a single mention of historical materialism
32:59 he said it! He said the thing!
Surely this video shows, that, whilst there have been blips and deviations from progress, that dialogue does continue and on the whole, things have got better; thus history has progressed - whilst not inevitable, it can be seen over the long sweep of history; human beings are capable of critical enquiry, judgement and an intent to make life & liberty greater.
Lore of Does History Progress? Momentum 100
10:30 "The Biblical idea that the Sun went around the Earth..."
I'm going to nitpick here: while it is in my view correct that this was a strongly _christian_ idea back in the day, I wouldn't say it's _biblical_ since it is never explicitly stated in the Bible that the Sun revolves around the Earth. As is often the cause with religion, commonly held beliefs are not necessarily what is in the holy texts.
There is no such thing as a "holy" text.
Freedom comes from free speech and the individual right to bear arms
Αυτό είναι ωραίο υλικό για σκέψη
Oh mighty algorithm why arent we rewarded with boost button?
Progress is going from point A to B and knowing how far point B is. I made progress. The future of progress usually gets stalled, or stuck, because no one knows where the hell it is going. I'm going to bed now. I don't know what time I will wake up. Is sleep part of progress? Then history has gone to sleep. Doesn't matter. We made some yesterday. Lets read the media sources and take a look at history. Its too soon. No one is interested. Its an "about what?" question. Hegel had no personal history other than reading a lot and discovering what all the Greeks must have felt like being what he thought. He wasn't the only curious writer. I don't wonder the woman I'm interested in felt like when she was five years old.
What do we learn from history? We're not like those people were anymore. Anything else to learn and put to use before I check out some old Playboy Magazines? For the interviews for sure, the ads, you bet and maybe the hairstyles from beehives to etc. Tip to bottom, eh?..haha...Good video...nudge wink..
It only progresses if the right people hold the consensus.
We didn't see progress after WW1. But we did see it after the Second World War.
Ah yes, the "Dark Ages", a.k.a. the "Golden Age of Christendom in Europe." Good times. Good times.
Absolutely legendary man, you have fueled so many odysseys of lsd for me with your pristine knowledge and information please do me favour and have a bloody good one. 🤌🏻
Typhoon
George Washington
iT does .;i;. as CircaTree
I want to build an ai chat bot and train it on all the smarty pants youtube comments on such videos and the product will be a chat bot that makes smart people cringe
I think you should stop yourself when you're saying things like "I think when you look at the dark side of history (eg the Holocaust) the word that comes to mind is Bittersweet".
Does magic exist?
It had better!
yes history progresses but it doesn't always progress in one way
.. as a German Biologist -
I am astounded by the GAIA Hypothesis
of Lovelock…
May be “Nature” finds intricate ways
to help Humans to Self Titanick
We will see many more War actions around the world.
All added up together
Accelerates Human Self Extinction.
We help most to get there Fast…
“The history of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare upon the minds of the living." -Marx
Regarding "what happens on the banks": there is a quote from George Eliot's Middlemarch that has a similar message:
"..for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs."