What a wonderful video! The ending of the piece is a particular type of romantic cadence characterized by the rising 9th motif (degrees 6 7 1) that I have studied and termed the "Dream Cadence" in reference to Träumerei. You can see more examples and analysis of it on "thelibraryofsonorities" or look up my paper "The Dream Cadence: A Study of the Ascending Ninth in Romantic Music". Thank you again for this in depth analysis of such a wonderful piece!
💥 Schumann has this characteristic way to harmonize using thirds on both hands, that goes changing the voices chromatically, creating a beautiful polyphony. It's like the professor said, sounds like a string quartet very often. He has some own chord progressions too that even if I don't know the music, I often can identify the composer by his harmonic ways. This piece is a small universe in itself. 🎉❤
I really did not know about the original/fast tempo and I feel like it changes the mood behind the piece, it becomes a less peaceful, more tormented, fluctuating up and down and ultimately less comforting in a way It is almost like slowing it down erases that “torment” by making it closer to an Ave Maria type of piece (i don’t know where I’m going with this, just wanted to say thank you for this great video!!!)
Thanks Matthew - Great insights! And you play the piano beautifully. :-). The story about. the 2 letters from Schmann and Wagnor is so funny and human. WOW! Love the end with the black and white. Chords and the chord's numbers are so awesome to follow as a musician who writes and reads mostly charts. THANKS! Peace!
The Berg essay can be found in "Pro Mundo-Pro Domo," his collected writings. Not sure if you mentioned that. Wonderful video! thank you for putting in the time. Funnily enough, I was just dicussing this with my friend a couple nights ago...he took me to see Gurrelieder! Berg has a wonderful essay on that too.
I didnt realize Kinderszenen was so deep or harmonically great.Schumann has more moods than Chopin .Irony that Sch suicided and Chopin who was always dieing as Moscheles said succumbed slowly.
Thank you for the video. I felt sad for him when he was losing his hearing. I never cared for his music much until I saw the old movie about the Schumanns and Brahms.
Superb visual follow along musical analysis at the end, awesome work thank you. Does the G 9th chord really exist ? i mean i don't think it should be called a 9th, it is like a juxtaposition of a G7 and a D chord on top. It's interesting how he has to harmonize that keeping the two B natural low or it would clash with the evocation of the D chord on top. But i am just searching i don't have the answer.
Yes - the strange voicing has a lot to do with the voice leading. But it makes a beautiful and unique effect. The chord is a secondary dominant (G - C - F) which is always a deeply expressive chord, two steps away from full resolution. In terms of figured harmony (which Schumann himself would have understood) it is a dominant 7th with a ninth (A) on top.
The metronome mark was important to Schumann, he used it theoughout his career, wherease Liszt and Chopin stopped using Metronome marks in the mid-1830s.
I am a massive fan of Robert Schumman. I think of Kreisleriana and my hairs raise on my forearm and i get shivers. I place Schumann next to JS. Bach and nobody else on that rank, no not Mozart, not Beethoven and not even Chopin or Tchaikovsky or Edward Elgar who are all geniuses nonetheless.
I completely understand that. He is wonderful. I would say too that Tchaikovsky and Elgar were both hugely indebted to him, as were later composers like Debussy and Alban Berg. He is a composer who remains hugely relevant even today.
It is an apothecary's cabinet. It has all sorts of bits and pieces in the drawers. You're right: very useful for organising things, even though I'm not a very organised person!
8:18 to 8:32 that is just rubbish. He himself praised the triumph of his first symphony to his metronome mark and even made his editors wait for the metronome markings. What I say is easy to find, however what you say is absolutely impossible, CITATION NEEDED for that ABSOLUTELY FLABBERGASTING claim. 8:56 to 9:05 is nonesense, yes modern musicology says so but it is evidently false. Chopin pupils say that the tradition is being lost and the very pieces we complain being too fast happened to be played much faster according to them on their time compared when the tradition was handed to them. I wonder if you just say what you have been taught or you are just making all of this as you go. People, the answer is in front of your eyes, yet you don’t notice or link the clues.
I'm not getting into a pointless argument about this but the statement from 8:18 is verified by Czerny, who knew Beethoven very well, and gave a long and detailed account of Beethoven's own playing of his Op. 14 sonatas.
Clara S did "revise" his husband's work after he passed away, making them more conventional, as pointed out by Charles Rosen. I wouldn't trust here as an editor.
@@themusicprofessor I tried to find that quote in the Romantic Generation (couldn't find it), but it is true that Schumann revised much of his work by himself, however Clara did some revisions in the Gesamtausgabe.
What about that double-beat theory about which Wim Winters always talks? If that assumption is correct, 100 becomes modern 50 bpm which is closer to the tempo Horowitz played. Slow and dreamy. I know sometimes the evidence is against the theory but here it fits ok, in my opinion.
@@themusicprofessor Sure, the tempo is relative and can vary during the performance. But the theory itself can be partially true. I believe it just depends on the metronome model a specific composer or editor used. Definitely, it does not work for every every single piece. For example, if you look at Maelzel's metronome (the original pyramid-shaped metronome from the 19th century) the scale says Agagio for the range of 105-120 bpm. That's way too fast for Adagio, so the numbers must be interpreted differently and half speed sounds more appropriate for the particular metronome type. You can see the picture of it in Wikipedia in the "Metronome" article.
@@ValentinKovshikMusic I wonder if your contention about the given range for adagio on Maelzel's metronome might be answered by the video "Are We All Playing Classical Music in the Wrong Tempo?" which can be found on the "tonebase" guitar channel. It's also the case that if you look at the contemporaneous timings given for Romantic music and compare them with the predicted timings according to the two interpretations of the metronome, Wim Winter's theory get further and further away from the actual lengths given for the music to which he suggests it should be applied. There's a video on this on youtube somewhere.
@@isaacbeen2087 Yes, I have watched that video. It's more about interpretation of non-numeric tempo indications like Andantino, Moderato etc. The metronome marks is a different story, it's a number. Adagio is slow in any case, but 120 quarter notes per minute is not slow. Something is wrong here. Presumably 1 beat ≠ 1 quarter note. In fact I have checked now some scans of the first edition of Traumerei and it's, indeed, an eighth (!) note = 100, not quarter. See the very first pdf link on IMSLP for Kinderszenen, file # 03060. On the other scan the notes' flag presumably was lost due to low quality of the scan.
@@ValentinKovshikMusic The video suggests that our idea of non-numeric tempo markings has generally grown slower. That would seem to answer your contention directly, no? the rest of the indications on the metronome seem to fit pretty well. They're just very roughly squeezed on, I highly doubt they were meant to be of much use to begin with. I'm looking at the first edition now. It seems the flag has been drawn on by the owner of the copy.
It really isn't: look at the speeds of Wagner performances for example. We know (from contemporary accounts of Wagner's own performances) the exact timings of the acts of his operas. In the final decades of the 19th century, and throughout the 20th century (until Boulez in 1976 reversed the trend) the speeds grew slower and slower.
What a wonderful video! The ending of the piece is a particular type of romantic cadence characterized by the rising 9th motif (degrees 6 7 1) that I have studied and termed the "Dream Cadence" in reference to Träumerei. You can see more examples and analysis of it on "thelibraryofsonorities" or look up my paper "The Dream Cadence: A Study of the Ascending Ninth in Romantic Music". Thank you again for this in depth analysis of such a wonderful piece!
For some reason, I'm having difficulty downloading it but could you send me a pdf?
JulienDespois. Thankyou. I hope it helps my composition.
💥 Schumann has this characteristic way to harmonize using thirds on both hands, that goes changing the voices chromatically, creating a beautiful polyphony. It's like the professor said, sounds like a string quartet very often. He has some own chord progressions too that even if I don't know the music, I often can identify the composer by his harmonic ways. This piece is a small universe in itself. 🎉❤
I love how the first chord (F major) is played with the hands interlocking, cooperating to make the perfect gentle sound, kind of like an embrace!
Fascinating observation. Yes!
I so enjoy these longer (filmed) vids, though I appreciate they must make more demands on time, etc.! Many thanks, and most enjoyable! Cheers! 😄😄
I really did not know about the original/fast tempo and I feel like it changes the mood behind the piece, it becomes a less peaceful, more tormented, fluctuating up and down and ultimately less comforting in a way
It is almost like slowing it down erases that “torment” by making it closer to an Ave Maria type of piece (i don’t know where I’m going with this, just wanted to say thank you for this great video!!!)
I missed these analysis videos so much... so good
Wonderful analysis and excellent performance!
Thanks Matthew - Great insights! And you play the piano beautifully. :-). The story about. the 2 letters from Schmann and Wagnor is so funny and human. WOW! Love the end with the black and white. Chords and the chord's numbers are so awesome to follow as a musician who writes and reads mostly charts. THANKS! Peace!
The Berg essay can be found in "Pro Mundo-Pro Domo," his collected writings. Not sure if you mentioned that. Wonderful video! thank you for putting in the time. Funnily enough, I was just dicussing this with my friend a couple nights ago...he took me to see Gurrelieder! Berg has a wonderful essay on that too.
Stravinsky uses thick muddysounding close-spaced thirds in the bass! Im so unobservant. How could i not have noticed that ?
I didnt realize Kinderszenen was so deep or harmonically great.Schumann has more moods than Chopin .Irony that Sch suicided and Chopin who was always dieing as Moscheles said succumbed slowly.
Thank you for the video. I felt sad for him when he was losing his hearing. I never cared for his music much until I saw the old movie about the Schumanns and Brahms.
loki must be a lucky dog haha
These videos make me appreciate the pieces I already love even more. Great analysis!
Superb visual follow along musical analysis at the end, awesome work thank you.
Does the G 9th chord really exist ? i mean i don't think it should be called a 9th, it is like a juxtaposition of a G7 and a D chord on top. It's interesting how he has to harmonize that keeping the two B natural low or it would clash with the evocation of the D chord on top. But i am just searching i don't have the answer.
Yes - the strange voicing has a lot to do with the voice leading. But it makes a beautiful and unique effect. The chord is a secondary dominant (G - C - F) which is always a deeply expressive chord, two steps away from full resolution. In terms of figured harmony (which Schumann himself would have understood) it is a dominant 7th with a ninth (A) on top.
Magical piece, spectacular composition. To me it's only nominally in 4/4; almost 1/1 really, or mixed meter (3/4, 5/4 etc)
I have to say that I prefer the faster tempo. (Sorry, Loki)
Loki prefers going at a fast tempo on his walks.
The metronome mark was important to Schumann, he used it theoughout his career, wherease Liszt and Chopin stopped using Metronome marks in the mid-1830s.
What a perfect Saturday afternoon piece. Thank you, and Loki too.
I am a massive fan of Robert Schumman. I think of Kreisleriana and my hairs raise on my forearm and i get shivers. I place Schumann next to JS. Bach and nobody else on that rank, no not Mozart, not Beethoven and not even Chopin or Tchaikovsky or Edward Elgar who are all geniuses nonetheless.
I completely understand that. He is wonderful. I would say too that Tchaikovsky and Elgar were both hugely indebted to him, as were later composers like Debussy and Alban Berg. He is a composer who remains hugely relevant even today.
Yes. Dogs have been licking their own balls for a very long time.
This video should have millions of views. 🎉❤❤❤
Agree!,
Love your analysis ❤ thank you and keep it coming !😊
Love the Schumann!
Amazing!
I am curious what does that beautiful pharmacy like 16 drawers furniture holds ? I'd like to have something like that to organize myself.
It is an apothecary's cabinet. It has all sorts of bits and pieces in the drawers. You're right: very useful for organising things, even though I'm not a very organised person!
8:18 to 8:32 that is just rubbish. He himself praised the triumph of his first symphony to his metronome mark and even made his editors wait for the metronome markings. What I say is easy to find, however what you say is absolutely impossible, CITATION NEEDED for that ABSOLUTELY FLABBERGASTING claim.
8:56 to 9:05 is nonesense, yes modern musicology says so but it is evidently false. Chopin pupils say that the tradition is being lost and the very pieces we complain being too fast happened to be played much faster according to them on their time compared when the tradition was handed to them. I wonder if you just say what you have been taught or you are just making all of this as you go.
People, the answer is in front of your eyes, yet you don’t notice or link the clues.
I'm not getting into a pointless argument about this but the statement from 8:18 is verified by Czerny, who knew Beethoven very well, and gave a long and detailed account of Beethoven's own playing of his Op. 14 sonatas.
Thanks so much for analysis! Really enjoyed the playing too!
Hi Loki!
Clara S did "revise" his husband's work after he passed away, making them more conventional, as pointed out by Charles Rosen. I wouldn't trust here as an editor.
Rosen doesn't blame Clara. It was Schumann himself who became more conservative and revised some of his early works to make them more orthodox.
@@themusicprofessor I tried to find that quote in the Romantic Generation (couldn't find it), but it is true that Schumann revised much of his work by himself, however Clara did some revisions in the Gesamtausgabe.
Thank You Very Much! 🦩✨💎🦩🦩🦩
What about that double-beat theory about which Wim Winters always talks? If that assumption is correct, 100 becomes modern 50 bpm which is closer to the tempo Horowitz played. Slow and dreamy. I know sometimes the evidence is against the theory but here it fits ok, in my opinion.
I don't buy it - although (as I say in the video) there is no such thing as an absolute tempo.
@@themusicprofessor Sure, the tempo is relative and can vary during the performance. But the theory itself can be partially true. I believe it just depends on the metronome model a specific composer or editor used. Definitely, it does not work for every every single piece. For example, if you look at Maelzel's metronome (the original pyramid-shaped metronome from the 19th century) the scale says Agagio for the range of 105-120 bpm. That's way too fast for Adagio, so the numbers must be interpreted differently and half speed sounds more appropriate for the particular metronome type. You can see the picture of it in Wikipedia in the "Metronome" article.
@@ValentinKovshikMusic I wonder if your contention about the given range for adagio on Maelzel's metronome might be answered by the video "Are We All Playing Classical Music in the Wrong Tempo?" which can be found on the "tonebase" guitar channel. It's also the case that if you look at the contemporaneous timings given for Romantic music and compare them with the predicted timings according to the two interpretations of the metronome, Wim Winter's theory get further and further away from the actual lengths given for the music to which he suggests it should be applied. There's a video on this on youtube somewhere.
@@isaacbeen2087 Yes, I have watched that video. It's more about interpretation of non-numeric tempo indications like Andantino, Moderato etc. The metronome marks is a different story, it's a number. Adagio is slow in any case, but 120 quarter notes per minute is not slow. Something is wrong here. Presumably 1 beat ≠ 1 quarter note. In fact I have checked now some scans of the first edition of Traumerei and it's, indeed, an eighth (!) note = 100, not quarter. See the very first pdf link on IMSLP for Kinderszenen, file # 03060. On the other scan the notes' flag presumably was lost due to low quality of the scan.
@@ValentinKovshikMusic The video suggests that our idea of non-numeric tempo markings has generally grown slower. That would seem to answer your contention directly, no? the rest of the indications on the metronome seem to fit pretty well. They're just very roughly squeezed on, I highly doubt they were meant to be of much use to begin with. I'm looking at the first edition now. It seems the flag has been drawn on by the owner of the copy.
8:55
Sacrilegious
It really isn't: look at the speeds of Wagner performances for example. We know (from contemporary accounts of Wagner's own performances) the exact timings of the acts of his operas. In the final decades of the 19th century, and throughout the 20th century (until Boulez in 1976 reversed the trend) the speeds grew slower and slower.
yessss
👏👏👏