Vivziepop’s VERY QUESTIONABLE queer representation in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss (ART COMMENTARY)
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- AAAAA first art commentary video!!! This took way too long since I completely forgot about it for a while and randomly picked it up and spent half the day on it 💀 anyways, like i said, if anyone has any feedback, lmk! Keep in mind, Im very new to this and also a minor, so I hope no one was expecting the most in depth video ever made 🥲
TWO RANDOM THINGS:
1) The drawing is of a character from the magnus archives, which is a really great horror fiction podcast. he’s wearing a sweater i ordered that reminded me of him.
2) THIS IS NOT MY REAL VOICE. ITS A FILTER 😭🙏 (i wish it wasnt)
#helluvaboss #hazbinhotel #vivziepop #controversy #art #videoessay #drawing #speedpaint #rant #queer #pride #hazbin #foryou #artist
SOME SOURCES I USED:
www.shipspsych...
en.m.wikipedia...
/ what_is_some_pansexual...
YOU GUYS HAVE LEFT A LOT OF COMMENTS SO APOLOGIES IF I DONT SEE THEM/RESPOND 🙏
So, most common feedback i’ve received is:
1) Music is too loud, speaking audio is a bit hard to understand and too quiet
2) Art is good (THANK YOU 😍)
3) Pretty good coverage of the topic, could use some improvements.
4) A lot of people don’t agree with me, which is totally ok! Like I said, this is entirely just my interpretation and personal opinions, but thank you for watching the video and leaving comments anyways 😋
So, if I were to make another video like this, what topics would you like me to cover?
I don’t think that the music is loud cause I can hear you very clearly!
You should totally do more commentary on these shows. If you’re a jack stauber fan, you could make a video on the leaked song situation? I’m planning on making one about that and am curious to see what other ppls thoughts on it are. Super good video and great art :)
@Tobithepurpleducc I love jack stauber! I dont really know much about the leaked song situation, other than the fact that a song was leaked and someone made a trend out of it. I’ll add that to my possible video ideas. thanks for the suggestion! 🤩
Charlie and Moxxie - Both bisexual, music lovers, wear bowties and suits, in a relationship with a skilled fighting woman, have an ex boyfriend who is a dick
Helluva Boss: Octavia, Loona, Blitzø, Moxxie and Stolas have daddy issues and ex issues(Except Octavia and Loona....) and as you said Charlie have daddy and mommy issues.....
charlie has an ex boyfriend-?
@@iLoveBread_101I can't remember if it's canon or not but his name is Seviathan von Eldritch
@@iLoveBread_101 Yes, years ago in livestreams vivienne said she had a boyfriend named seviathan von eldritch his family were close with her family. There's a prom photo of them in the pilot and in the pilot Charlie called his sister "loser" during her inside every demon is a rainbow song. Seviathan's father Frederick is seen in a photo during episode 5 too posing with Lucifer looking like having fun
Angel Dust and Moxxie both coming from Italian mobs and both being a mob boss' son who is thought of as lesser because of them being queer and liking less masc/more fem things... with a cast so big (talking about both shows) she has SO MANY different stories and perspectives should could portray. Two of your leads should not have almost identical backstories....
I’m a a S@ victim and queer person, and I hate the representation of angel dust in this show so much I could go on for hours about it
aw, i’m really sorry to hear that :( i hope you’re doing better
Yeah, I've seen ALOT people struggle to make good representation of SA victims or suicidal people, I understand why, but it's still a bit disappointing
same i literally hate it
I've always loved it but I completely understand how you would hate it- Angel does harass others throughout the show too ._.
Sucks for you ig but lots of people really like it 🤷
the pansexuals being overly sexual was also something i heavily despised. i'm on the ace spectrum myself so my opinion might be influenced by that but there is NO need for these characters to be so icky almost every time they're on screen. i really like Husk for that reason too. he's not asexual but doesn't need to be to be NORMAL
@@kiddiestrangler yea, most of the pansexuals of the series are very sexual the only exceptions being Beelzebub and Barbie Wire (although Bee does have her moments).
but other PAN characters in Helluva are typically VERY sexual
blitz, Asmodeus, Verosika, Chaz
and wIth hazbin there only two pan characters are Husk and Valentino
, and while Husk is alright as a character valentino….
like i get most of these characters' professions are related to being promiscuous with everyone but it feels like a stereotype after a while.
and now I'm realizing how many sexual characters are in this show lmao
im like 60% sure im on the ace spectrum, but even so, it was just something that bothered me so much especially considering thats one of the most common stereotypes of a pansexual person. like 😭😭😭 it almost feels intentional at that point
Husk is pansexual! and if you want some good ace representation from Viv, then you should look at Octavia from Helluva boss
@@user-fm9gd3wn2qthe only reaspn she was asexual to me was because she was a minor 😭
@@deadlyqueen7779Minors can be asexual
as a gay man, i agree with you. i don't hate on the characters(angel dust, stolas, andre, etc.) but the representation and "feminine man = gay" stereotype that makes me infuriated, also the fact that most of the characters who are gay acted horn knee and it just... feels so wrong to me.
yeah, fr 😭
Shrek 😥
I mean...tb a lot of characters in general act horny including straight ones like Nifty.
wdym? there's not many feminine gay characters. Just Angel and maybe Stolas. Besides, it's a stereotype because it's not uncommon for gay men to be like that. Obviously not every gay man is feminine, but a lot of them are, and they are heavily demonized for it by society, so the representation is nice
@@rsc5721 no, have you seen andrealphus and fizzarolli? yeah, they are also feminine. just look, they, or ALL have a twink body type
A sign saying "I will f-ck anything" with the pansexual flag for PRIDE MERCH is just beyond questionable
Why? It’s a joke…?
@@alexbennet4195 yeah, but that doesn't change the fact the joke is pretty stupid and kind of stereotypical
@@a_spectator_of_the_night what do you even mean with that…? In order to be someone who would “fuсk anything”, you… have to be bisexual ofc. But not all of her bisexual characters by any means behave like that - and the overwhelming majority of her characters are bisexual…?
I'm pretty sure that's JS the charecter
@@a_spectator_of_the_nightIt essentially makes that seem like it’s the only thing LGBTQ people think about all the time.
I'm tired of all the sex jokes in the show too. like with full honesty the “IM A TOP” joke was so corny, it gives off the vibes of middle-highschoolers making sex jokes and them falling flat being they sound immature
Bro same.
And that moment where Sir Pentious got r**ed on a party, that Viv thought it's "funny"... 😕
yeah i agree, the show claims to be “for adults” when it has the most immature humor ever
So that’s why I thought it was so good in middle school 💀
That’s why middle schoolers enjoy watching it :/ even thought it’s inappropriate for them but too childish for adults
Well she kinda did have most of these concepts in middle school
Its very hard to see the difference between thats their personality and thats their sexuality, thats why its so stereotypical
exactly
That’s a very good way of phrasing it
I fully agree. Plus I noticed how in HelluvaBoss, when Josh and Ace became a gay couple. Vivzie made Josh more "bottom-like" by making him smaller and more feminine. And it kinda bothered me.
YES. he slowly got more and more twinky like why what was the purpose 😭
Yeah! Josh and Ace were sorta the same height and they both just looked so cool in their first appearance. They would've been cool in like action (fighting) sequences or something. Lol
Vivziepop try to make diverse couples (IMPOSSIBLE1!1!!1)
Hated that, hes reality only a 1 inch or 2 shorter than him and rather muscular like while Ace is the same in body type, idk why she had to make him more feminine and shorter bc him being shy with the og character concept was already good enough for me-
As in I'm the person who thinks two manly men being in love while one is shy and the other is confident is good, lately he's gotten shorter and shorter which is getting rlly weird bc I think changing his height once was already enough, like I'd rather have Josh be clingy rather than be the preppy boyfriend from that one webtoon 😭
(All I did was correct smth lol)
@happyvibesO I didn't notice this until I googled them and yeah, she made the wrong call. Like she should've kept the white haired one (idk who is who) the way he was. Thier dynamic would've been unmatched...THEYD BE SO COOL💀 Not to mention it'd break the stereotype of most if not all of her gay characters being feminine.
Also the way stolas is low key an abusive pos to blitz but gets no consequences cuz he’s just an innocent lil gay boy pisses me tf off
the hypocrisy of stolas is like…a whole other video on it’s own 😭 like yeah blitz is gonna think you think low of him because you treated him that way??? Hello??
@@agenuinefreakofnatureThey Are Bringing That Up In A Future Episode Though? He Has Never Felt Loved, He Is A Royal, That Is What Love Is To Him. Viv Knows Stolas Isn’t Self Aware And Is Bringing Attention To That
@@agenuinefreakofnatureare we just supposed to ignore ‘my impish little plaything’?? Or him putting out his cigarette on Blitzø’s horn? Like how can you do that then completely 180 and be like ‘I never did anything wrong :(‘
@@donutcat5535 y’all do realize we have like 50 or smth more episodes before helluva boss is done y’all act like full moon and apology tour are the last episodes stoliz will get charcter development just like blitz but y’all are fully dunking on them and complaining that stoliz is bad even though the series isn’t even done can we wait till the series is done to judge if the charcter is bad or not like fr :’)
@@Martyismylifesupport so like, hypothetically- if a series showed a character doing the most vile things ever, or just treats people like shit, and doing a 180 and being like "but.. im a good character!! :(" we arent supposed to have opinions on the character we like or dislike?
and its true though- stolas is currently a bad character to manys eyes, but other people discard that because its gay rep- and not-so-great gay rep, at that. hes just a toxic character, in my opinion, and i think we can judge him- no matter how "mentally ill" or other excuse he is, it doesnt make it right or change the fact that he is just a bad character who treats people bad, and with bad character traits so far.
Vivzie’s version of LGBT rep is basically just tumblr gay rep. And I don’t mean like Lumity and Korrasami. Or CaitVi and Luca x Alberto. It’s like Viv is stuck in her “uwu smol gay bean” tumblr phase and it’s seeping into her work
What do you mean by that then? Like any examples of ships?
@@s4ltenj0y3r basically during *that* era of tumblr, if there was any gay ship (specifically mlm) the fandom would automatically make the more “feminine” guy the ‘smol bean’.
It’s another way of using the whole ‘who wears the pants and who wears the skirt in the relationship’ that a lot of people use for gay couples. I think BakuDeku (fucking hate that ship) is a really good example of that. Just look at BNHA Gacha cringe on UA-cam.
@@s4ltenj0y3r Sorry but that’s like the only ship I could think of. That and when people were shipping Dan and Phil
@@p0ckiiturtle55 Oh yeah, that! I was a gacha kid back in the day so I know what you mean
Tbf she literally started during that time (many of her characters were made when she was in middle school) so it makes sense a lot of it bleeds into her work at times. Not to defend fully but yknow, context haha
I am a gay femboy who is hypersexual but my presentation has nothing to do with my sexuality, I was feminine far before I knew I was gay, and my hypersexuality is due to mental illness rather than my gayness, and I don’t like talking about my hypersexuality out loud, and I don’t feel incredibly comfortable making sex jokes unless it’s about me wanting my fictional crush to step on me. I am a very clean person when it comes to drugs and things like that, instead im more addicted to tame things like sugar, and that’s because it gives me dopamine (I lack any natural dopamine whatsoever, that’s why im hypersexual). I can be emotional and overdramatic, but that’s personality, which me liking men has no effect on. I can also be a badass when im with my friends and I can feel confident, so just because I’m gay doesn’t mean im soft, even though I can be soft sometimes. Again, that’s personality, not sexuality. So, I do happen to be some of the gay man stereotypes, but as you can see, they have nothing to do with my sexuality, and my sexuality is something on the side. I just happen to like dudes. But PLOT TWIST IM A FEMBOY INTO FEMININE DUDES. TAKE THAT STEREOTYPES!!
My point is that it seems like Viv is putting stereotypes into every character specifically because of their sexuality. With her logic, a character could be extremely feminine and hypersexual, BECAUSE they’re gay. It’s not just a coincidence, like I am, because she does it with EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. I enjoyed Hazbin Hotel and I used to like Helluva Boss, but the stereotypical LGBTQ portrayal of all the characters is just frustrating. Not a huge fan of Vivziepop anymore because the combination of the extreme amount of sexual stuff in her shows (I’m hypersexual but sex stuff still makes me feel uncomfortable) and the horrible queer “representation”.
Honestly I don't think I could be with a bearish guy, it just wouldn't feel very safe😭
I think the video was mainly calling vivzie out for using stereotypes frequently in her characters, mainly negative ones. It's perfectly fine if you fall into these lines because you're actually human, the characters that vivzie creates are not. This is coming from a fem dude too who is hypersexual.
@@AtlasDoesTheAnimates I love your point. Also slayyy ✨
@@mettaton-x yassss
i am a transmasc guy who likes to keep my femininity, and i am also hypersexual. part of it is a response to S/A that happened when i was 9, and a response to my severe depression and anxiety. i hate it whenever people automatically assume hypersexual people are hypersexual because we want sexual attention :/ and i hate how people always assume if you're queer, its automatically about sex. its fucking odd
I agree with a lot of points in the video. I have no problem with the amount of lgbt representation, but viv just makes a lot of queer characters obnoxious by making sex(uality) their whole personality. Helluva boss just got ruined by making stolitz the entire plot.
Stolitz was Brandon's idea not vivs
alastor cat‼
At least the Stolitz arc ended with Apology Tour. btw nice profile pic ;3
@@90sdiablo51 thanks :D! And yeah, hopefully it doesn’t come back later in the series. If helluva continues to be the blitz and stolas show I’m definitely not watching it anymore.
Real😭 I think the Cherubs coming back was super cool, hopefully they get more screentime in the future
I enjoy the show, however I think they tried too hard to make it “for adults only” but it more comes off as a 2019 gacha PG mini movie. I understand Vivzi wants to keep the show 18+ but I kinda think Angel and Stolas are the best representation of Viv over-using the “overly sexual” and “overly romantic” terms and personality traits. I want to know what Angels personality is like under his “sexual” behavior and same with Stolas.
I think we have a good amount of what Stolas is like besides his horniness, though
I'm a bi/ace, and my problem with the shows are that, we focus wayy too much on sexuality and not enough on the plot. Why did we need to know that Valentino was pansexual? Why did we need to know what Chaz's sexuality is, meanwhile, the important stuff (Angel Dust's family redemption, how Heaven works, how do you get into Heaven, more of the Hell heirchy, more world-building, Millie's character growth, etc) either gets explained in comics (which I didn't know existed since recently) or in interviews (which are hard to find). They should be explained IN. THE. SHOW. Not just expecting us to know them. I don't care who sleeps with who or what not, I care about how much power do the overlords have, I care about the magic system, and I care about the I.M.Ps doing their job and not the Stolitz mess.
FAX‼️‼️‼️ They could dedicate so much more energy to developing the plot but instead just make a bunch of reused sex jokes
@agenuinefreakofnature Yeah, and personally, I think it's better most of the time for a characters sexuality to be vague and up to the audience to decide. That way, it causes less drama.
@@william3100 That too. 1 of the biggest debates in the whole fandom is whether Alastor is aro/ace or just Asexual and should be shipped. He was confirmed Asexual, and yet the fandom still doesn't know what that means. Asexual means you have a lack of interest in sexual intercourse. Just because you don't want sex, doesn't mean you cannot be in relationships, so stop harassing those who read AO3 and Wattpad fanfics on themselves x Alastor or Vox x Alastor. 🙄🙄
i get annoyed when people say alastor is confirmed to be aroace when it has been stated soooooooo many times that hes been asexual and ONLYYYYY asexual@@DaWeirdestShipper228
Then bad for you I guess, the series isn’t about imp doing their job but about blitz’s life like his relationships, struggles etc. So if you want to see imp doing their job it’ll just be a filler episode or side plot
I think Viv does a good way of balancing negative stereotypes and countering them with good rep. For example, Alastor is a villainous ace character but Octavia is pretty good. Valentino and Chaz are overly sexual pan characters but Husk is also pan and is the complete opposite
Fr
Yeah
None of those good characters feel like they are asexual and pansexual respectively, though. You could say they are both bisexual or even heterosexual and it wouldn't really change anything.
@@william3100 Yeah, that's a good thing. Characters are not defined by their sexuality.
Alastor is actually aro/ace
I usually don't care how many queer people there are in a show or game or book compared to heterosexual, hell, you can make all of the characters queer no matter if they're main characters, side characters, or even just background characters, it's the stereotypes of queer people that I'm mainly concerned about
This is why I avoid adult western cartoons most of the time.
Im queer and I wish they wouldn’t make it so important in the show. I really appreciate the representation, but when the representation is just gay people making sex jokes it gets really uncomfortable and stale. I’m aroace spec, so maybe I’m not viewing it properly, but I really don’t understand why as a society we feel the need to revolve so hard around romance, but specifically sex. We get it, y’all do that sometimes, y’all don’t need to talk about it literally 24/7 like cmon 🥲 what I find weird is that there’s clearly visible transgender characters in the background of the show like you mentioned, including sally may, but it’s NEVER talked about. In every single episode, we hear smth about sexuality and at least a million fucking sex jokes, but the trans (and ace) characters have literally never been talked about. Overall tho great video man, your art style is super cool and I actually got a lot out of this video, it would be cool if you made more :3
aro dude here, and I appreciate the different view of perspective because I actually like romance in shows. I would absolutely love more speaking role trans characters as well as A FREAKING NONBINARY CHARACTER like 😭😭😭- and i agree. There’s way too many sex jokes to the point where it gets really old and honestly beat to death. It almost seems like Hazbin and helluva have no idea how to develop the plot so they just go, “hahaha gay sex hahaha” and that’s it 💀 anyways, thanks for commenting, and I will most likely make more since this video is doing pretty well and I’ve been getting some good feedback!
also wait a dang minute I’ve seen your content before, didn’t expect you to comment 😭🫶
@@agenuinefreakofnature Aw I didn’t think you would know me 😭 seriously tho, I really do hope you make more commentary videos bc this one was great! :)
also Ive never seen nonbinary characters either :/ (maybe in heaven? lol idk) just cis gays and 1 binary trans person and a couple background trans characters (that may or may not be binary) that arent voiced but idk how Viv even feels about us enbys Ive heard shes controversial on some things but Im not sure if that was one of them. at least I have Owl House and Our Flag Means Death and at least I dont have to worry about viv being weird towards nonbinary people through a nonbinary character etc so win some loose some Ig.
fellow aroace person WASSUP‼
As an aromantic/pansexual person me hearing Valentino was pan is just WHAT like hell no we don’t want Val to also represent the pan community for me I just hate how sexual all the pan characters are in hazbin hotel and helluva boss like blitz I mean it was nice to see a main protagonist be pan since we barely see any pan characters in media but when he started making sex jokes and being all sexual was….something but when it came to husk he was some nice representation as our whole personality isn’t just sex jokes and fucking everyone that breathes.
yeah, for sure. like no being pansexual does not mean your whole personality is sex 😭😭😭
As another Pansexual Arromantic person, i don't care if he is Pansexual (he is my favourite character) since he wouldn't be accepted in any community anyway, it's just the way how it makes their whole personality... Valentino can be chill sometimes but they make him way more sex-hungry that is irritating.
I don’t think Val being pan is relevant tbh…it’s not like Vivzie is saying that pan ppl are predators. I think that’s kind of a stretch tbh. He doesn’t ‘represent’ pan people, he represents predators and happens to be pan
Val is my fav character, he's design is just so beautiful.
You're right. If I knew nothing about lgbtq, i would've probably not liked it based on how they are presented in that show.
I watched a Helluva boss episode with my homie several years ago. Now it makes perfect sense on why is he homophobic
@@Smartfella297 that sucks that your friend is homophobic but that’s actually so funny 😭
@@Smartfella297 Pls tell me you are joking. 🤦♂️ There is no sense for being homophobic.
@Ebh55. of course it makes no sense, but I was trying to explain the effect
@@nikeyboy5371 lmao
Omg your little oc with the shark in the corner is SO ADORABLE AAAAAAA
thank you! 😭
As a lesbian woman, I find Vivizi's lesbian representation so... excluded, she can't do it without being about men, Sally May and Vaggie are not enough. Vaggie is the most underrated and forgotten character in Hanzbie Hotel, it seems like not even the creator likes it. of her and Sally may not even be mentioned, the poor Sally has no focus on the series and won't, fortunately (or unfortunately) Vivane doesn't fetishize lesbian relationships like she fetishizes gay relationships, I sincerely hope that the clown sisters, Stella, Velvette and all the female characters who do not yet have canonical sexuality, are actually lesbians
Sallie May’s voice actor has confirmed on her IG that Sallie is going to have a canon in series girlfriend eventually! And confirmed that she is a trans lesbian.
@@genericinsight I hope her girlfriend be lesbian too
Im Demiromantic. I wish she gave us more ace rep that isnt crowded by constant s3ggulization
Octavia is ace it could be important since all the male goetias are gay and they need to breed
YES!! I'm so tired of the response always being "Ace people can be sexual too!" Like... WE KNOW. We would just like to also have ace characters who aren't sexual or overly sexualized! I swear, sometimes I feel like people sexualize ace characters to spite their sexuality
I really hope that if Helluva Boss ever explores Octavia's asexuality it will be disinterested/repulsed ace rep
FRR I'm DemiR/Pan and I rly wish we had more rep that isn't just "romance and sex and is EVERYTHING!!!!!!"
What does demiromantic mean?
@@Nightman221k It's on the Aromantic spectrum, it basically means that you have to have a strong emotional attachment to someone before you develop romantic feelings. Like a friend you've known for a long time or just someone you're around a lot and genuinely enjoy the company of.
Why are there so much gay characters but literally one lesbian relationship.. like I’m not discriminating but there’s just.. not enough lesbian rep imo!
Agreed, but I thought it might be because at some point, when gay relationships got more visibility in media, writers would almost exclusively go for lesbian relationships because theyre more widely """accepted""" (fetishized). Not saying it's a justification but it might be the reasoning behind focusing on mlm relationships
@@DUWANGlai_kangyi or maybe viv just fetishizes mlm relationships and doesnt really care about lesbian relationships/doesnt find them interesting
@@DUWANGlai_kangyiwell, I mean, now mlm has vastly more rep than wlw...
@@ahseymaniathissss
Viv replied to people complaining about hb, and how it lacks female rep, and said that hh will be more focused on female rep, when we only get 3 female main characters. (Charlie, Vaggie, Nifty) compared to (Alastor, Angel Dust, Husk, Sir Pentious) Even the antagonists are mainly male. (Adam, Vox, Valentino) then (Lute, velvet??) And I was disappointed with the lack of female rep, on a show that was meant to have more female rep😭😭
OH FUCK NO. Looked into the comments before the video even started and immediately regret it. val is PAN?! so no one's safe?..😢😢😢
FR GET THIS BALD MOTH A-A-A-AWAY
NO NO NO IM ALSO PAN
IM NOT SHARING A SEXUALITY WITH A DEMON MOTH
Well Husk is pan?
"no ones safe" LMAOOOSJHJKSJ
I am pan but i am also ace and its just hurts how vivzie showed pansexual people. Maybe thats why bee is one of my fav characters but i didnt even know she was pan 😅
Yeah exactly! Justice for pan aces ✊
@@agenuinefreakofnature Yes justice for pan aces!!!✊
Tf is pan ace???
@@Jessiepinkman400 a pansexual person on asexual spectrum i advice reading about both things
@@Jessiepinkman400pansexual person that doesn't care about gender when it comes to romance , but doesn't like s€x
My personal opinion as a bi/pan (still figuring it out lol) cis gal is that yes, while it’s COMPLETELY okay to have characters like this (hyper sexual, drug addicts, flawed in general) a lot of characters in helluva and hasbin ALL share these traits, with many double standards depending on the character in the show. I feel like while rep is Great, focusing fully on that and less on the character as a person outside of their sexual identity isn’t a great way to approach any queer character 😅 I do genuinely like a few characters from each show! But I feel like the idea is cool but it could be handled so much better 😭😭 so yeah basically a lot of what u said! It’s nice to hear a take that isn’t so aggressive and views pros/cons ! Have a great day :D
Thank you for your feedback! And yeah, I agree 100%.
I support Vivzie, but I don't really like her shows. Even coming from a hypersexual person, I feel like she's trying too hard to make it "for adults" with too many sex jokes...
yeah, and little does she know making it full of sex jokes does not in any way make it more mature or adult like 💀💀💀
She said many times her mainly humor comes from stuff like Family Guy and SP, it's just her sense of humor
Yeah, the humour is so immature
thats satire right
like supporting vivzie because shes done a lot of shit you shouldnt support her
I personally feel represented with Alastor. Every ace character in other shows are pushed to the side because they can’t be used for romance or sex, whilst Alastor is one of the main characters and really interesting and cool. It’s the only time where I’ve felt represented. I personally like the show.
Man, I wish I could relate... I just hate how the fandom overly sexualizes him. I swear, some of them do it to spite him being ace
Yes ace people can be sexual, can we please have an ace who isn't tho, y'all (the fandom) don't need to have everyone horny all the time
@@Batz-on-paws yeah, I hate that about the fandom. The excuse of asexual people can still be sexual is a very poor one since in cannon he’s shown to not be interested in sex and it takes away representation of asexuals who don’t feel sexual attraction.
It just kinda sucks that he’s so crazy and murderous. I see it as perpetuating the stereotype that aro/ace people are cold and unloving just because we don’t feel certain types of attraction
As a pan person, hearing that Valentino was canonically pan (if that’s what you were saying) actually made my jaw drop
Edit: also I don’t mind Blitzø being pan as much as I mind someone like Chaz. Blitzø is a pretty solid character imo, but ofc not everyone has to agree with me
yes fr 😭😭
well. he'd like anyone due to him being uh... yeah. i'd see why. i wasnt exactly surprised tbh.
@@KeekeeHII fair, I just hate him, and Chaz or whatever his name is
@@SakuraTea69 fair enough. (chaz sucks)
@@KeekeeHII agreed
Warning in advance, this is a long read
I'm a trans gay man, so idk if my opinion really would matter as much as a cis gay man (being trans, I haven't had a lot of experiences that cis gay men would) but I really don't like how Angel Dust is depicted, I don't think stereotypes should be completely removed from media, I think they do have a place and could be used for some interesting story telling purposes, such as Big Gay Al in South Park or all the stereotypes shown to us in Team Fortress 2, but I think what's important to note is the execution of how those stereotypes are presented to us, the two examples I gave are both from franchises which are extremely satirical and those stereotypes aren't at all depicted in a negative light (hell, South Park has been very pro-LGBT since it first started, the first episode Big Gay Al is featured in is about Stan accepting his dog for being gay, with Big Gay Al helping Stan come the conclusion that there's nothing wrong with that and that love is love, a very positive message)
A lot of media also presents these stereotypes in a way to make fun of them and point out how ridiculous they are
Plus there are gay men who do stereotypical things such as wear flashy clothes and act really femininely, which there's nothing wrong with at all
the problem with Angel Dust is while he does show a lot of the sillier less harmful stereotypes he also displays the more negative ones, such as him constantly sexually harassing Husk (the show itself states that it is sexual harassment) and his character in general just implies that being gay is a sex thing, which is INCREDIBLY harmful
the show doesn't present this in an entirely satirical way either (although a lot of his lines are jokes, I hate how angel dusk isn't allowed to be sexually assaulted but other characters like Husk and Sr Pentious are allowed to be for jokes?? disgusting) and while I do think there could be ways where his character could work (tone done the harassment if you want him to be more serious) it just... doesn't
idk how to get my point across really
it feels especially awful when you combine Angel Dust with how Blitzo and Stolas are written, their relationship is also full of negative stereotypes and comes down to gay relationships are just a sex thing (ofc they are trying to branch out their relationship more but I feel like the issues are still and always will be still relevant)
the way Viv writes gay men and mlm relationships overall just disgusts me, stereotypes can be used for excellent story telling opportunities, but Viv either doesn't care to be careful or genuinely just is homophobic and believes in those stereotypes
great video btw!! I think you need to work on your audio balancing (your voice is very quiet, especially compared to the music) plus you mumble quite a bit so it was hard to hear what you're saying and I think some of your writing is a bit awkward (such as mentioning husk and then repeatedly saying you're going to bring him up in the next segment, if it was earlier in the video you could have said something like "more on that later" but I think what would have been a smoother way to write that is mention husk last in that segment of the video and then use him to transition into the next segment), that's all stuff that will take time to practice doing and I do think you have the potential to make even better videos if you do choose to keep going with making these sorta vids!! this was a very good topic choice and I think you handled it very well, it's also lovely to see somebody bring it up as people don't really tend to talk about these issues in much detail like you have here!! normally people just say "viv's writing of gay relationships is harmful and fetishised" and that's it, while you gave a more wider look to the situation and covered how queer people are represented in her shows in general which is super refreshing to see
although as important as it was for this to be discussed i do recommend being careful, you are minor and you are talking about an adult show, I do understand that viv has a large minor audience but shows are intended for adults and being a minor in adult spaces can be very dangerous, especially when you talk publicly about those spaces and you being a minor
your art style is really lovely as well, i love your little sona guy, very cute design, and is that jonathon sims from the magnus archives?? very cute :DDD
keep up the good work!!
hey, fellow trans dude! 😎 thanks for your comment, and yes I agree with the points you made 100%. sorry for the audio problems and my speaking issues, i mumble a lot when i read and it’s hard for me to not stutter a lot :( i will try to fix the volume if i make another video like this! and with the script, i agree. i wrote this about a month ago and didn’t make many revisions, which will definitely be another thing i can fix. yes, i know the shows are intended for an older audience, but because of the fact i was exposed to the hazbin hotel pilot when i was a lot younger, its kinda stuck with me and i just wanted to make a video on the topic! thanks for your comment and suggestions! 🫶
ALSO. YES. I LOVE THE MAGNUS ARCHIVES 😈
nice
It really annoys and amuses me how people demand that LGBT characters always be good, kind, without any problems. Dude, these shows are about HELL and SINNERS. Obviously, they will not be the best people! And LGBT people are not super-saintly individuals, they are the same people who have flaws and can be villains.
the point is that they're stereotypes
@@ambermillerrr So what? Stereotypes are often, you know, based on something.
@@Sidya68 these are bad stereotypes tho
@@ambermillerrr In a way, all stereotypes are sometimes bad. But they exist. As I said before, as an LGBT person, I hate it when people demand that LGBT characters be made "perfect for representation".
@@Sidya68of course we want flawed characters I'm pretty sure ope tioned how they didn't want gay people to be treated differently. With flaws the issue is that the stereotyping across these shows comes off as fetishizising than making a complex character.
Personally the show just comes of as bait for middle schoolers to obsess over their queer relationships.
Like the "IM A TOP" joke from the most recent short was so corny it felt like listening to High Schoolers
this is amazing!! i do agree that the music should be a tad quieter though so it’s easier to hear you ^^
OMG WHAT????? Didn’t expect to see you here, lmao 😭 Thanks for the feedback!
oh hey mushr00m what's up
hello!
I think Fizz and Stolas being theatrical is related to their upbringing, I hated that the sign “I’ll fvck anything” that Chaz was holding like you have to know how awful that is
Chaz was implied to be a bad character, the show is trying to make you hate him. He's not *supposed* to be good gay rep because he's not supposed to be good at all
@@TheUniqueen999he's not even implied to be a bad person, he is explicitly so pathetic, untrustworthy and straight up dumb.
@@TheUniqueen999you think maybe he shouldn't be in the positive pride post then if he's not supposed to be good?
@@Bremblemax Why would they not include all the characters, still? Sure, it can be meant to be just positive, but they probably also wanted to share what everyone's sexualities were.
Guys, guys, guys.
People of any sexuality can be a bad person! Woah theres a really bad guy and hes... hes pansexual?! No way! That means bad that means she makes all pans bad!
@@Clown_eating_fruity_pebbles the op mentions husk, so i think they know that lol
@@Actualbowlofsoup that was an example, man. 😭 sorry if I made it confusing
@@Clown_eating_fruity_pebbles its good 💀
kinda sus when u make every pansexual in ur show a bad person tho 💀 kinda makes it look ur homophobic or something!! that’s crazy?!
@@thegreenlesbian there is ONE pansexual in the show that's a bad person. ONE.
I didn't care about the other sexualities, I was just happy to see ace characters as an ace person who barely sees that representation in other shows. :D
same
I have mixed feelings on the ace rep but that's mainly thanks to the fandom. But yea, just seeing some rep for us feels nice
@@Batz-on-paws I don't know WHY people are like this. Doesnt matter which fandom, people always go more honk wonk with the ace characters. And someone on TikTok said that it's not bad to simp for someone who is only ace. (The video was about Alastor.)
You lost me with “nearly every character being queer is overkill”
Yeah that point was really weird…
Honestly I began to wonder why I thought that every character being queer was overkill... was it homophobia? Nah. I think it's because if every character is queer, then none are queer. It doesn't matter, it's been completely normalized, and all that is left is to flesh out the character themselves. Being queer may be a critical part of your identity, but so are your aspirations, history, story, likes/dislikes... sometimes I wonder if Vivzi enjoys advertising the show as a show for gay people rather than a show with interesting characters that you love and want to know more about who are also gay. I dunno! I could be super duper off
Yeah it kinda was weird, but he explained it very well afterwards. If your characters are queer but are stereotypical and depicted in a negative light then the representation isn’t good. I think he meant that having all the characters be queer is kind of excessive due to this fact.
@@Theworldofef Normalizing being queer is a good thing actually, also have you considered Vivziepop and most people working on Helluva Boss are also queer and themselves enjoy the representation the show has?
I just wanna say as a queer person myself that none of these characters are meant to represent the entire community they can be their own characters without being held to a standard that people want them to. (Also, I have Angel Dust as a comfort character for personal reasons)
Also, I know that y’all wanna point out the stereotypes in these characters, but that’s not their whole character like Angel being a feminine gay guy ( I have seen and met feminine gay guys) that’s not the only thing about him like he said to Husk “ like I said you don’t know me sex ain’t the only thing I’m good at”
@@sailorstar3148 I think it's more of the repetitiveness of the queer characters (especially the men) being overtly sexual
@@Actualbowlofsoup These characters are adults so they are going to be sexualized. And don’t get me wrong I get what you guys are saying, but this is how I view these characters they ain’t perfect and I love them.
@@sailorstar3148 I get that adult will be sexual but it's the repetitiveness of it. The amount of immature gay sex jokes just comes off as young teenagers who obsess over gay men(even if their queer themselves). This is worsened by the designs who are often (let's be honest) Tumblr sexy man esque
Also the only Transmasc rep we have isn't even voiced by a trans man like with Sallie Mae. But instead with a Cis man-
PETITION FOR A TRANSMASC MAIN CHARACTER FR ‼️‼️‼️
You mean the another 6 characters on Helluva or is there any trans people on Hazbin Hotel i don't know about..?
@@agenuinefreakofnature what about Baxter from Hazbin hotel? Only female anglerfish have the hanging light bulb.
@@puppydogs68 it’s probably just a character design imo
@@puppydogs68 Would you be able to tell he was an anglerfish otherwise?
As a Helluva And Hazbin fan myself, I would say it’s great to see plenty of queer representations, even besides pan and gay representations, but I feel like the “pan & gay pair” type of thing (mostly Pan-gay relationship) may be a little overused at some level (just a little bit, not a lot).
For a few examples I figure characters like Stolas, Vassago, Andrealphus and/or even Fizz could’ve been represented as Bisexual characters or something less represented like a Polysexual character just for a new form of representation.
I'm a bi (male leaning, but im ace) dude and i just wanted to say i HATE stolas, ppl act like being a seg pest was so boyboss of him but it wasnt, idc if he was abused by his wife but i understand how trapped he was, idc if blitzo wanted it or not STOLAS GOT NO AN ANSWER MULTIPLE TIMES!!!!
THISSS
im queer and im glad there are queer people who dont suffer from addiction or abuse or trauma, but every fellow trans person ive ever hung out with struggles with sh and addiction for example. also i am a survivor as well, and that really really hurts me that someone hates angel, because hes literally me but a man. again sorry it makes people uncomfortable and im glad you cant relate from experience but its called crying for help. its like weve never heard of hypersexualizing themselves, which i think is the most common form of response to sexual trauma. im a trans woman but i was a gay man for a long time and its stupid to get upset over unsavory qualities. queer people arent angels because theyre queer, yes there are overly sexual creepy people obviously. and its honestly rediculous to tie together hypersexualizing yourself and their queer identity, to me thats projecting internalized phobias on your (not you specifically) part. also i love fizz, what do you mean hes not deep, did you miss the episode where he got trapped with blitz or something lol
anyway tldr; its not fetishizing queer people, its giving something for queer people who struggle with fetishizing themselves and struggle with any form of addiction in a harmful manner something to relate to in mainstream media.
hi, i’m really sorry to hear that you’ve struggled with all that :( i’m a trans dude, (a younger one, so i haven’t transitioned yet) and i’ve never struggled with sh, so i don’t actually know what that’s like. the point of the video wasn’t to mean that you can’t have a feminine, hypersexual, or addicted gay character, but just that having every single gay character be an archetype gay man isn’t the way to go. i agree 100% it’s important to showcase characters with addiction and mental health issues as much as anybody, and im sorry if it came off otherwise. again, sorry you’ve dealt with that stuff, i hope you’re ok! ❤
@@agenuinefreakofnature thank you sm for understanding, definitely don't disagree with you that it shouldn't be nearly every character haha just wanted to speak my mind a lil especially about angel because I relate to him so much :P
While watching the speedpaint, I was thinking "haha, that looks kinda like Jonathan Sims!"
Then I realized that it IS Jonathan Sims head archivist of the Magnus Institute, London
LOVE the art and the discussion (and the podcast mentioned, highly recommended) btw!!
Magnus archives is 🔥🔥🔥
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING I was like “huh those scars really make them look like Jon” AND THEN IT WAS the fixation never rests 😔😔😔
I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT
Really good, and informative video :DD Just try to make the background music slightly softer so your cometary would be better to understand. But either way I really like your style, it's pretty cute that I would munch on it >:³
thank you so much for your kind words and helpful feedback! 🫶 sorry i was kind of hard to understand, i also gotta work on not mumbling so much lol
These points DO make sense, and I understand where all these points originate from, but I’d like to point out that one, she balances the negative with the positives, like in HH, Val balances out Husk, as both are Pan, but one is crazy abusive and the other is quite tame. Mixing HH and HB, Octavia, Alastor, and Mammon are all Ace, but Octavia is amazing and Alastor’s and Mammon’s moral ideologies belong on a roulette wheel. This does help with the stereotyping, in my opinion. Also, final thing, both HH and HB take place in Hell. I do feel that this explains the amount of stereotypical queers. But I understand what you mean, I do partially agree!
Look... I'm gonna be honest, y'all seem real biased
I'm not gonna pretend her writing is perfect, but overall the representation she includes seemd pretty balanced
Ultimately these characters are literally in hell so yes, they're often bad people, or very sexual, etc. But it's not like every single character of a certain orientation fits some stereotype for said orientation. One of the characters most overtly uncomfortable with sexualization, Husk, is literally pansexual, so no, it's not like every pan character is horny- it's just that most characters are horny in these shows lmao
Y'all are literally asking for benevolent discrimination. You're asking for your representation to be good people in a show about bad people. Benevolent discrimination is still discrimination. To me it seems like she writes her characters as characters and figures out labels later.
I see people here complaining about Alastor being one of the more evil characters and being ace, but fun fact, did you know his general personality as being the way he is PREDATES him being ace? If you look back at her old stuff, Alastor was originally straight, and was evil then too.
Stop asking for literal demons to be perfect representation. They're gonna be sinful. That's literally the point.
You're like the only person who actually gets it and it's driving me nuts.
@@kikasolis I had to say something about it because the way people are treating this issue is wild
Not only are they demons, like… it’s a cartoon? There’s plenty of shows out there with wholesome squeaky clean queer rep (Heartstopper comes to mind). In real life, queer people are flawed and complex and messy and I enjoy media that reflects that.
Looking for perfect representation in a cartoon about literal Hell is so weird.
@@vaughnhaney7020 I'm not lgbtq+, but I feel the same way. I feel like at this point, people just throw all logic out of the window just to hate on Vivziepop. Also people are forgetting that she's literally lgbtq+ too.
@@crazedbadger1555 Exactly! People just hate her over stupid little things and then end up grasping at straws trying to justify it with something more substantial
All three of the gay men mentioned in the beginning ate traumatized in some way. Angel uses those comments and jokes to cope with his job, since his boss, Valentino, is abusive, physically and s3xvally. Fizz also acts like that because of his job. He works for the sin of lust, who sells adult products. He was also abused by the sin of greed. These two are meant to represent the horrors of working in the entertainment industry, along with Blitz. Stolas grew up with a negligible father, and only got attention if he pleased him, which is why he does what he thinks Stolas wants, which is s3x. The pansexual characters are also traumatized, Blitz grew up in the entertainment industry with a negligible father, and he feels unlovable. S3x helps him escape that feeling and those thoughts. Verosica also works in entertainment, and her power is s3dvction through song. She was also traumatized by Blitz, due to him leaving her because he feels unlovable. Val and Chaz are villains, so everyone hates them anyways, but as far as we know, they just use their traits to traumatize others.
I remember seeing a clip of Viv mentioning Alastor is aroace but she says he’s only ace for the shippers
Clip pls?
Okay okay. Criticism is valid and its okay to not like how the story or characters are told.
But this whole thing bothers me. The show isn't meant to be representation of queer people I'm pretty sure, it always felt to me the creators are from the perspective of people heavily in fandoms. Thats why even horrible characters get merch and tiny charming or silly details about them since like a fandom everyone's paying love to all characters no matter morality.
And i think queer characters are just queer because the creators are queer. How Hazbin and Helluva are written are similar to how i see lots of queer people in nerdy culture write stories. Sure, some of its intentional but there's so many queer characters because we're queer and that's what we're more familiar with and want in our media.
I never thought anything that was being shown was a stereotype. But im pansexual and the pan rep felt kinda accurate to me. Yeah, its highly exaggerated but thats what shows do. Im hypersexual but i dont really do much irl, yet when it comes to fictional characters im basically Chaz with that sign. And even tho many pan characters do show hypersexuality, sometimes it makes sense. A succubus being pan makes sense!
You don't have to like how queer people are represented in these shows, thats totally valid. But its not bad or harmful at all and i think its more harmful to try and tell other queer creators how they show write their characters. Remember, Viv is not the only writer, she is not the only one making characters and ideas for her shows.
I guess maybe we are all salty because our curiosity about these characters and the plot lines they could be apart of are all stunted in favor of focusing on their queerness and relationships. This is amazing, but the exploration of sexuality and love would be bolstered by a focus on the character's lives and stories outside of their relationships to make the interactions have more weight (aka Fizz and Blitzo). Locking them into stereotypes ironically prevents the audience from seeing more of them as an entity rather than as a statement...
we seriously need to talk about the way charlie and vaggie are shown. they barely touch, they barely flirt, they’re so toned down compared to the other gay characters.
they just.. appear like a “golden gay” couple. the kind that homophobes can digest easily. “as long as they don’t shove it in my face!!” the show itself is so sex-negative. it distinctly positions sexuality as a joke and, with charlie trying to get demons into heaven, as sex to be something to be avoided. wtf.
also. also. vaggie? vagina? the lesbian named vagina? that’s a hate crime to me (/j)
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. i don't think the rep is a huge problem in hh and hb. it's the weird sex negativity. i haven't watched either show so i can't give a detailed analysis but. the fact that most of the characters are overtly sexual with each other while the "model citizens (charlie/vaggie)" are like the most chaste couple in hazbin hotel. it's.
Queer person myself, and I don’t like HH or HB THAT much. I like HB a bit more, but that’s due to it keeping my interest more.
The characters in the show are too focused around them being queer and around s3x, which is unneeded. I understand if it were to help clarify something that goes on, but constant s3x jokes and s3xualization of queer men specifically is just disgusting. Like sure, representation is good, but the over s3xualization and stereotyping is absolutely terrible.
Anyways, amazing video, and awesome art!
I understand the critisisms, but I don't get why the show needs 'good' representation. Even if they are stereotypical, those flaws or positives are part of their characters. Why can't queer characters have flaws? Especially s*xual flaws. I do get the pansexual critisisms due to so many pan characters though. Also, I am a lesbian and I don't get why people have a problem with the lack of lesbians. Most of the characters are lgbtq plus (can't find the symbol in the mobile keyboard), but people are mad that one mainstream sexuality is not as represented. I think it's unjustified.
For real, a common complaint I see is how "oh they're all hypersexual that's a little homophobic and bad"- did you forget that the setting of both shows is hell? We are in hell. These people were raised around a place where one of the things that can get you into hell is lust if they're hellborns, and might even be in hell because of something sexual if they're a sinner.
Also, I didn't really mind the amount of sex jokes (as someone with slight sex repulsion and who is ace), a lot of them were actually good and I don't understand many of these criticisms
@@TheUniqueen999 agreed. I think some of the sex jokes are a bit much. But that's the shows humour. Don't like it, don't watch it. No one is ever just satisfied.
I@@TheUniqueen999I think it's more over the fetishy part of it honestly. Mixed with the immature humor. It just feels like when middle schoolers obsess of gay relationships. Which is why there's so many middle schoolers in the fandom
@@Actualbowlofsoup Characters are fetishized, and the series usually explains why. Sexualities are almost never fetishized. Also, I got into the series in middle school, and didn't obsess over the gay relationships, and most of the reasons I liked a lot of ships were not simply because they were gay.
Also, imo the humor's not that immature, and that's coming from an asexual, you just have a different sense of humor
@@TheUniqueen999 as an asexual as well, i find the humor to be immature. theres entire jokes of the shows writing poking at the humor.
also im glad you didnt do that, however my point was to reflect the immaturity of the show through the analogy of middle schoolers who obsess over queer characters.
another note, proves my point that a lot of the fans are indeed in middle school, or at least very young. this show doesnt feel adult its teens tryong to be adult.
The show is for adults, but i dont even think male teenagers like their corney ass jokes
I do :3
Quite literally, Husk is the only pan character I can get behind as a pan person. Even Bee shows signs that she isn't being loyal to her partner as she openly talks about being attracted to another man in front of him which makes him visibly uncomfortable. Husk is just so sick of everyone's hypersexuality and I will forever feel that in my soul as people always assume "I'm pan" translates to Chaz's poor portrayal 😬
I saw people talking about the new shorts video Viv did a couple of days ago and all I have to say is, 1. The “I’m a top” joke, both me and my partner almost at the same time went “that’s- that’s not an excuse honey…” but eh, more of a me thing I suppose, it’s supposed to be played as a joke, 2. Moxxie’s scene? In the new short, with the crystal? I had to look away and cover my eyes, I was so uncomfortable?? I know it’s for adults and such but I was so uncomfortable over how it was done that I looked away covering my eyes while nervous laughing a lil, the lil blush after that was cute tho, he looked cute
I feel like the joke is PRECISELY that it is not an excuse, and Blitzø is just a shitty partner. Besides, he's not even a top, he's a switch. He just has to find excuses, I mean he's portrayed as an asshole in general.
It's supposed to be a bad excuse
As an ace person myself, Alastor being the sole ace rep in Hazbin Hotel really put me off considering the fact that he’s a cannibalistic serial killer 😭 Ngl at least Octavia is good ace rep in Helluva Boss
Why does every fictional Ace character have to be a good person?
@@pjdixon6199 I’m not saying that they all have to be, my main issue with Alastor is the fact that he’s the ONLY ace character in Hazbin Hotel, and he’s a terrible person. Ace characters can be villains, but the fact that the only ace character in this show and is portrayed as a heartless, evil monster perpetuates some very harmful stereotypes about ace people.
I actually like the ace representation in the Helluvaverse. I know it's not perfect but at least we get few more CANON ace characters. Also I really enjoy Alastor, Mammon and Octavia whenever they appear in the show, the characters may be shitty people but I think they're well written characters
@@scrappykoko4871 I’m glad you do! ^_^
Owl house does it better, because the sexuality factor of the characters isn't the apart of the plot. But instead apart of how the world is built.
I’m a S@ victim, as well as queer. I personally don’t really care about the representation of angel, honestly I can almost relate to it. I’m pansexual and honestly I think it’s funny that Chaz had that sign, it’s silly joke as well as the representation in blitz…also lil side note I love the art🤩
fizzarolli is theatrical? hes a performer. that's an integral part to his character. Angel struggles with substance abuse, so too does husk, stolas and blitzo. you can name a number of these flaws the characters have that are sterotypical, but does that mean they shoudn't have gay characters with common struggles? because it seems like you are trying to say that these characters cannot have these very common flaws, just because they have been associated with an identity.
all of the stereotypes you listed for pansexual people are also perfectly applicable to bisexual people, rather than being bad representation, i think its just a coincidence that some of the most sexual characters in the show are pansexual. if these characters were bisexual (most of the characters seem to be bi or pan), someone would say the exact same thing.
hell, i would say about half of the characters are very sexual, i don't think its at all exclusive to the pan characters. angel and stolas ring a bell, millie too. if you find that gross thats fair, but thats just what you expect from hellaverse media.
Being gay is just a trait that angel has and isnt necessarily the cause of his horniness,its his FRICKING JOB-
I'm very curious on how Angel would appear as a character if his sexuality wasn't one of his selling points
I never even thought of these characters as stereotypes. I just thought of them as characters. I barely even think about how gay some of these storylines are. I only realize its gay if i want to explain helluva to a homophobe and realize oh- um I can't😅
Viz is LGBT so she has a say in lgbt. The reason she gives representation for male csa survivors is very self-explanatory. There’s misandristic Femcels who would say otherwise and say it’s only men who perpetrate and women who are victimized creating a sexist stigmatization. A stigmatization that Viz would try to break. So in some cases I would say it’s better than nothing at all.
just because she’s lgbt herself doesn’t mean she understands issues other ppl from the lgbt community go through, her representations are very stereotypical and harmful and the lack of queer women re is concerning considering she is one
this may be an unpopular opinion, but as a male attracted trans man, i think theres no such thing as "lgbt representation," just lgbt being made more aware of and characters happening to be lgbt.
i dont like using the term "lgbt representation," as that implies that lgbt characters in media kinda of represent or define lgbt people like me when thats not really true. i dont really like appointing anyone or anything as the "representative" of me and other lgbt people, as all of us are different and have unique views and perspectives regarding the world. "representation" just doesnt feel like an accurate way of putting it to me
tl;dr i dont want "representation," i just want lgbt couples to be made out like any other straight couple
I agree!
Whatever
Never really thought of them as stereotypes and the sole purpose of the characters aren’t really to represent their sexuality, it’s to be part of a story. I’m ace myself, and though sometimes the s3x jokes in HB are a bit much, I know that it’s just part of the show and can make many other people laugh. Idk I just never saw the characters as “oh he’s part of this community omg Viv is making him a bad rep-“ I just see the characters for what the show and the story is showing them as, Val is an ass that plays an important role in Angels story and an antagonist, Alastor is a cannibal deal maker that has a hidden agenda, Octavia is going through family issues..
The character sexuality just seems to be a fun tidbit of the character, and people should really just chill and watch what they like and avoid what they dont.
No
i will never get over that one of her ONLY lesbian characters is angry/mean-ish, and named VAGGIE. 😭😭😭
STOPPPP
CUTE OC + COMMENTARY + ART + *MAGNUS ART*?? YESSSSS
NEW. SUBSCRIBER.
THANK YOU🫶🫶🫶
What always bothered me is that in Helluva Boss there are lots of men liking men, some women and men liking each other, but NEVER women liking women. Even the female characters that are bi/pan are only shown in love with men.
I always assumed that there was lots of queer representation because of systemic issues pushing queer people into sin.
ooooh I never thought about it like that
that’s actually such a banger interpretation but knowing viv’s writing it’s probably too insightful to be the intended takeaway
Damn
i never rlly liked hazbin hotel or helluva boss. i have had a glance at the queer representation in that show, and I don’t like how it’s represented, so thank you soo much for covering this topic.
if you want any feedback on the overall video, then tho only thing i rlly have a problem with is how loud the music is but i can still hear your voice anyways so i dont care that much. the art is very good and i love the little doodle in the corner is ADORABLEEEEEE!!
THANK YOU! as a fan of the show, i can honestly see why people don’t like it 😭 there’s some very big issues that need to be fixed
Eyyyyyyy i dunno if i count, but im a trans guy who really likes other guys :3 (i dunno what i am exactly lol, but i definitely find guys attractive)
I honestly like how many queer people there are in Vivzie's shows :3
Considering I am trans, I have a huge problem accepting my more feminine sides. And seeing feminine/flamboyant or just fruity guys helps me accept that, so I find a lot of comfort in characters like Angel and Fizz :D
i don't know whether i have much of a say about pan representation, but i feel like pan characters who are quite stereotypically sexual do have their own place, as long as it's a bit balanced out. :3
but i definitely understand where you're coming from :DDD
fellow trans guy ✊ i have absolutely no problem with demonstrating feminine men or sexual pan people, it’s just when it comes down to a character being a literal personalization of a stereotype, that’s a problem for me
@@agenuinefreakofnature very understandable 🫡👍
@@agenuinefreakofnatureMaybe you should evaluate why, because a character being a personification of a gay stereotype doesn't have to make them any less well written if they have more depth to their character. None of these characters is only their sexuality. None are made just to be some gay joke or fetish content. They all have their own shit going on, and some happen to fit into a stereotype. Surprise, real life people ALSO might happen to fit neatly into a stereotype, and that's just how they are, while also being complex human beings. I'm not gonna say any of these characters are particularly complex all the time, BUT the ones who embody many stereotypical traits are not any shallower or less humanized than non-stereotypical ones.
I feel like your sexuality is achillean (mlmspec)
For a first commentary video, I just wanted to say that it's pretty well done:) also I loove your voice. It kinda reminds me of both Kikuo (the person not his music) and Micheal Covach, idk why it's just the why it's just the wholesome vibe of the person:D
I agree with almost everything. Especially the pan ones.
YES, her pan representation is so ass 😭🙏
I agree with a lot of things here but theres two things I personally would want to point out. first off, I disagree that Asmodeus plays into a lot of stereotypes because canonically hes in a really committed relationship (pretty much the only healthy couple in HB), and is never implied to cheat or be unfaithful whatsoever. ofc, im not pansexual (tho I am a gay man) so if any pan ppl disagree w my comment please correct me. and secondly, I also dont care much that the queer ppl in Vivs shows are shown to be very immoral people becayse theyre in hell, and them being perfectly good/moral would imply that what sent them to hell was being queer, which the way I see it, would be even worse rep.
agaain, this is a really good video and I agree with most of the points made, just wanting to add my opinion.
You made really good points! Also love the background art!
thank you!
The more I watch these kinds of videos I start to see the show’s flaws and all the s3x jokes are starting to become very corny and a bit repetitive and I’m lowkey kinda starting to not like the show as much as I used to but I cant stop watching it because I have never been this caught up with a show and the helluva boss and hazbin hotel fandom is the longest fandom I’ve been in. So I feel like I can’t quit.
And also I agree with you on the fact that there are too many queer ppl in the show
(Sorry if some sentences are a bit wonky)
Honestly i really feel like asexual characters are the ones that get screwed over in both shows. We have mammon being a flat out horrible person which I've noticed is a bad stereotype in terms of asexual villain characters, vivzie doesn't care about people pointing out how creepy it is that shippers dismiss alastor's asexuality and constantly draw nsfw, and with octavia not even she's safe because apparently brandon rogers said something really creepy and disgusting about her character. I cant remember what but i think it's out there somewhere. And as an asexual person who has been sexualized before, i really hate how vivziepop just lets this slide.
I find it really hard to say I love Helluva boss now just because of vivs choices 🥲
In my opinion I feel adult shows should be like a normal story however, they have the creative freedom to dive into more sensitive and mature topics and I genuinely adore the art colors the way things are animated, but I feel like the jokes can sometimes be shoe horned in or entirely not needed 13 yr old me would find it hilarious but I just wish I could have an episode or so with out such random and unneeded sexual jokes but that’s just me
I think the key issue with these characters is that it's just tell don't show. I think what Helluva did with Sally Mae was good cuz it was show don't tell, I liked that, but others feel like their sexuality is their selling point :-(
I feel like Viv is just a fujoshi with a queer fetish... They also decide to tackle very serious topics for the sake of making their characters more "tragic", and yet fail at properly respecting said topics (SA, substance abuse, etc.). I also lowkey hate the relationship dynamic between Fizz and Ozzie because it's awful disability and gay representation. It's fetishized to the point it's just gross to watch.
How the hell is fizz bad disability rep? That’s the shittiest opinion I’ve seen all week. (Hating fizzxozzie too) and if she is a fujoshi what would be wrong with it? Just let people enjoy fictional men loving eachother in peace jeez. And how is substance abuse handled bad? I’m sending this reply but I’ll probably not read your reply at all lol
Im not surw about the disability repretation, but the fact Husk compared his gambling addiction to Angel getting SA'd is just, blehh. Very weird :/
@@_ShiAngelno
@@dulcemendoza3526 yes
@@St2nkyF1shy he compared selling his soul to a demon not his gambling addiction
1:52 OMG NO ONE SAYS THIS??? TYSM FOR POINTING THIS OUT
I do really enjoy helluva boss (not so much with hazbin hotel) but I do agree with all of your points. I do know that her content is hers and she can do what she wants with it, but she really didn't need the stereotypes like you mentioned. I'm honestly really glad someone made a simple video talking about it instead of those like deep analysis videos 😭. Keep it up!
thanks! 🤩
Vivz
Vivz when she has to explain why is Hell the only place you can find queer characters, a good chunk of them with questionable stereotypes and another chunk in the middle of toxic relationships while the most healthy canon or implied relationships are the straight ones
I miss before s2 came out when the fandom mutually agreed Fizzarolli and Ozzie were switches. Their relationship is still a good representation of queer couples, BUT Vivzie is clearly HEAVILY pushing Fizz being a bottom. Ozzie being the embodiment of lust makes it the perfect opportunity to make him a character to want to try different things and open to switching things up every time. The narrative that there has to be a "top and bottom" in the relationship is so stupid. We OBVIOUSLY can't just have 2 masculine men or 2 feminine men dating, it HAS to be one feminine bottom and one masculine top.
Her shows are littered with stereotypes, and quite honestly, the representation is pretty lacking. Almost all the characters are members of the LGBTQ community, but that's just it. There's no + in there. We don't see any non binary or gender fluid characters, and that's just off the top of my head. The "diverse cast" are just copy and pastes of the same relationship dynamics, same personalities, same sexualities, same gender identities, same body types.
I don’t see many people talk about this but I don’t see any non-binary rep in the show, it’s kinda sad cuz we got all these other lovely reps here but non-binary is just not there 😭
It can be hard to write NB characters if you haven't interacted with many NB people, I'm saying this as an author who is actually trying to write one right now and it's pretty hard to since I have to double check if everything's not stereotypical or if it seems discriminatory towards them
@@TheUniqueen999 I don't think that's an excuse when writing a show is a team effort and any number of NB people can be brought onboard to help out and give their perspective.
@@DUWANGlai_kangyi Yea, fair point, but I think it's just because there's barely any media nowadays with any sort of NB rep if it's not what I mentioned, so they decided to not make any. It does seem kinda stupid but a lot of writers have mindsets like that
Wow, really? I have only seen four episodes of the show, but that's surprising. There's prolly no gender fluid or trans rep either, then is there?
@@Muffinn_Cakes There is a trans character in Helluva Boss, the show's sister series. In fact, the trans character has a whole short (which are basically episodes but mini) devoted to them and their sister
BREAKING NEWS: Local youtuber finds out LGBT people can be awful persons but confuses it with homophobia
Viv is obviously a huge fujo, and i'm convinced making chaggie canon was a concession and a way to deflect criticism.
As a pan trans woman, dealing with the jokes about having sex with frying pans is bad enough, but basically treating being pan as being hypersexual makes me feel so much more uncomfortable
i really agree on what you said in this video but... HOW IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT ALASTOR BEING ONLY ACE AND NOT AROACE BECAUSE VIVZIE POP THINKS THAT LETTING PEOPLE SHIP HIM IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE DESPERATELY NEEDED AROACE REP IN MEDIA??? HOW IS EVERYONE OK WITH THAT? in a live stream they asked her if alastor was also aromantic and she said something like: " i don't feel like saying it because many people whould be upset about it." LIKE WTF??? if a charachter is of some sexuality THE CREATOR should made that sexuality being respected. not saybg something like that. she didn't have any problem sayng all the other characters sexualities but since alastor is shipped with half of the cast and many fans sexualise him she didn't want to say it and "make people upset"? really?
Aromantic people get BARELY any rep. I've seen a bunch of asexual characters but I honestly don't think I could name a single aromantic character.
The fact that he was supposed to be AROace but Viv decided that the shipping is more important makes my blood boil.
Can we get one fucking aromantic character? I'm so sorry all the shippers will be sad that they cannot ship that one character out of millions of other characters who are not aromantic. Fuck me dude I just want some rep and I want the fans to be respectful and acknowledging.
It's homophobic to ship a lesbian with a man or a gay man with a woman but it's okay to these people to ship an aroace character who hasn't shown any interest in sex or romance.
Sorry for ranting in your replies lol I'm just mad over the non existent rep we get and how it's always ignored by the fandom anyway
If there wasn't angst or plot in her shows I wouldn't watch them. They don't make as many haha jokes as they think they do
Incase anyone here didn't know he completely missed vaggie, she's literally the main characters gf and is confirmed lesbian last time I checked. (Swear to god if she changed that, I'ma riot for y'all lesbians)
And something else I like to add, I'm not a gay man but I'm a very heavily male preferring bisexual and I'm currently in a relationship with a male. I don't have a issue with angel dusts overly queer behaviour, I've met many gay men at pride events and a decent amount that act just like angel, it's a stereotype but it does exist.
I generally don't think a character's sexuality has anything to do with the bad writing of the characters in the show and that's coming from someone who still adores helluva boss, it's just her writing style.
Edit: I'd also like to add in as a male grooming survivor I have no idea about angel because I never got to that episode but I've actually heard a lot of positive feed back from some of the gay men and even some woman on my socials that have been through SA and generally find comfort in angel, not really my place to talk since my grooming was mostly all over text rather than in real life but I just think it would be nice for people to consider the sa victims that enjoyed the show, why should one side only have a say in it? The answer? They shouldn't, I'd like to hear both sides of the angel argument rather than just the people who hate the show.
I don’t really like ace rep in helluva boss because while I adore Octavia as a character having a minor character (she’s under 18) being ace can lead to people saying “you just haven’t met the right person yet” etc. I’m 23 and people still don’t believe me when I tell them I feel no sexual desire towards anyone. Mammon being ace isn’t the best either since he falls into the stereotype of a character being too obsessed with their passion to care about sex or relationships. It just feels like the spindlehorse crew leans into stereotypes for queer identities they don’t understand and it makes me very frustrated as a long time fan of hazbin and helluva
i yearn for a nonbinary hazbin or helluva character pleasssse 😭🙏
the slow realization that you were drawing jonathan sims as the video went on
i kept thinking "is that jon? no, it could be any other character!" and it was in fact jon.
cool to see another tma fan out in the wild!
So, my boyfriend is pansexual, right?? They’re literally NOTHING like the stereotypical pansexual person in helluva boss, they’re very loyal, respect my boundaries, aren’t sexual, and we’ve been together for several months. I love them sososoososo much and it hurts to see harmful stereotypes towards people like my boyfriend D:>
Or maybe, listen, MAYBE fictional characters are their own thing and aren't trying to represent every single person of that minority. I am pansexual too, I see no issue with the pansexual people in the show because 1st, the characters here are supposed to be super unhinged, they're literally in hell and PLAGUED with issues of overindulgence. 2nd, some pansexual people might be super sexual, I mean, one of my pan friends is probably the most sexual person I know and yes, he does feel attracted by a ton of people. So it goes both ways, if it doesn't represent your partner, idk why it HAS to. I mean, look at Husk, he's not sexual at all and he's pan. So it's not even that this is an issue of fundamentalizing a sexual orientation.
There is no pansexual character in either show that is shown to not be loyal except maybe Blitz but the reason he isn't very loyal has nothing to do with his sexuality. Also nearly every character is sexual in these shows and if that's something you don't like that's completely okay and you can easily just not watch them. As someone who is also pansexual I don't see any issue with the representation in these shows.
@@DUWANGlai_kangyipfft
@@Just.Iro.whatever
@@dulcemendoza3526 Are you 5 years old or what
I was already annoyed by Viv making Stolas canonically gay since that just makes it easier for her to write away any criticism regarding Stella's lack of complexity with "Well he's gay so it doesn't matter anyway", but the fact that he's so stereotypically gay really annoys me, such as how he always envisions himself as the female in the romance novels he reads, his instagram has a page with Octavia giving him nails and makeup, how he always envisions himself as the bottom with Blitz, how he has limp wrists, and is hypersexualized.
Also, Stolas constantly lusts over Blitz, and yet when Blitz points that out in Ozzie's, in Apology Tour, Stolas had the nerve to say "You're making me uncomfortable, I don't like it when you speak to me that way"? Who writes this? You make all of us uncomfortable with what you say to him, and you are confirming the gay sexual predator stereotype when you do that! If this was real life, Stolas would be sent to jail for harassment, but it isn't, and because he's just a sad lonely gay man, he's a victim, even if what he has said (fetishizing Blitz and sexually harassing him) and done (trapping Blitz in an exploitative relationship just to make himself feel better) is completely, morally reprehensible.
Chaz also really ticked me off with how hypersexualized he was. Like, are sex jokes all we can do?Like that sign saying "I'll literally f-ck anything"? Are you serious Vivziepop? Do you even know how pansexuality, and by extent bisexuality work? They aren't "I'll f-ck anything". It's fluidity that might not be found elsewhere. Or is it just the butt of another lame-ass middle-school joke to you?
As someone who's been s/@'əd 4 times and graped like about 8 times, why would people just add traumatic experiences to characters, he gets repersented as someone who doesn't mind it most of the time, but in real life its traumatizing..Why do people do this?
Yeah im a gay male myself and i hate how all the gay male people are just overly sexual (Minus andre and vassago who have barely been shown) Its just annoying that thats how they act when a lot of people dont act like that also vivzie including all of them being feminem and are sexual which just so reavulting that thats how she made them act minus andre hes perfect (mainly because hes been in 1 episode) I dont know why she does this. i think its because she doesnt actually know how people act. (also sorry for any wrong spelling)
I agree 100%. Are there some queer people who act like the stereotypes? Yes. I am an asexual who appears to be the stereotype of asexuals "not understanding relationships or love" and I have an offputting personality. The thing is, not ALL ace people are like that. If Vivzie had characters who adhered to the stereotypes, she should've tried to bring diversity to their personalities.
Blitz, Chaz, Valentino, Verosika, Asmodeus, Beelzebub, even Lucifer to an extent have abrasive and energetic personalities (which is also a pan stereotype). It's almost impossible to tell if the backstory of a character or their sexuality was decided first; Vivzie either wrote a character and slapped on the label she thought fit their personality best (feeding into stereotypes) or she decided a label before she wrote the character's traits. If it were the latter, there are a multitude of different characteristics she could've assigned to her pan characters.
For example, Let's say that Chaz is instead quite cautious and a little cold/mysterious. In real life, sharks don't usually bother people unless provoked. Maybe his character could have been played to the "tall and brooding" type. His sexuality has nothing to do with his personality.
little bit of constructive criticism, id reccomend having your background music quieter so people can hear you better