Resisting church membership is almost always due to lack of commitment and or not wanting accountability. There could be exceptions but that is almost always the reason.
Hello Pastor Grant! First of all, I love you. And I love your ministry. And because of this, I want to kindly ask : Could you explain what about Paul & Peter & the Apostles? What about ITINERANT PREACHERS in general? Does not God call some to itinerant ministry like Paul & many of the Apostles? What about them?
@@johnprajwalpaul2005gmailcom good question, Paul was a member of the church at Antioch (Acts 13:1-4) and Peter depending on when it was, he appears to have been not only a member of the first church in Jerusalem but also tradition says he was the Bishop of Rome. Rome is debatable but I get your point that people who are sent out on a mission may not stay in one place but in the Bible they were sent out by a local church they were a member of and even while they are out on mission they were found in and among the local churches. The Interrante preachers in the Bible who were not connected to a local church were usually the false teachers the apostles warned about. Read 2 John, he warns not to put them up for the night or welcome them into your house. Lone ranger Christians and rouge preachers have always been a problem.
@Pastor_Grant Thanks for the response! And I loved it 🥰! By the way, even if SL was accountable to no one else, he was still accountable to the board of OnePassion (just like how Paul was also accountable to his ministry associates like Timothy/Luke/Titus), to whom he later confessed & VOLUNTARILY resigned. So although his church membership may be an issue, I find his resignation encouraging. Looks like he has taken the first step in the road of Repentance. Praying for his complete Repentance.
I began to study this issue in depth after seeing several instances of church discipline, where the person disciplined hadn't actually sinned but was in violation of a membership contract. There is no biblical prescription for membership as it is practiced today. Even if you can twist the verses you mentioned to mean some form of official group membership, there is nothing in the Bible or in early church history that grants additional authority based on a manmade document. Let the Bible be sufficient for elder authority. But few people think through this anymore. And it is evidenced by the fact that you have to throw negative aspertions on anyone who would disagree, saying that if you don't agree with an extra-biblical practice you must therefore hate authority and accountability. What a thing to say! Authority is established by God's Word, not a manmade document. Accountability is from fellow believers and from the elders of your church. You don't need a manmade document to enforce that. When you begin the practice of church discipline, do you go to your church membership form? Or do you go to the Bible? Does the Bible not grant each church the authority it needs to deal with sin in the church?
I posted a challenge but it doesn't appear. I will assume it was my own error, so I will try again. The Bible verses you quote do not prescribe church membership as it is practiced today, even if you can somehow claim that they describe a sort of organization to the church. I have seen church membership abused - used to justify church discipline for "lack of unity" or "failure to submit" to a pastor or elder even where no real sin existed! How can the church justify a manmade document that grants people access to levels of fellowship they can't get simply by being Spirit-filled Christians? Again, why is there no teaching on this in Scripture if it is so integral to our modern concept of church? To say that anyone who avoids church membership is guilty of not wanting authority or accountability is to claim that the Bible is not sufficient for keeping order or establishing authority and accountability. You must need an extra layer - a signed manmade document? I can find not justification for this practice, either in the pages of Scripture or in the pages of early church history.
What you’re teaching here is true, supported by Scripture and logic. It’s unfortunate that I am still wandering like a lost sheep after over 2 years of visiting many churches in my area. There are a few churches that haven’t been influenced by the charismatic movement or liberal beliefs, but in those few churches, I find myself feeling very out of place for not having a family. I’m the only one who comes in alone and social events are always centered around parents with children. I’ve tried the SBC affiliated churches that have massive congregations where I might find some who are in various life stages, but there’s a clear influence of what is called “big eva,” and the doctrine has been changed to be more palatable. I’ve shed a lot of tears over this painful search for a church family.
AMEN! Too many Christians are treating Church like so many do with marriage: "Let's just live together and not make the commitment of getting married."
It would take a miracle for someone who teaches one must "join a church" expressed as "church membership" in the way it is commonly practiced; "the pastor and the sunday church service" to abandon this religious tradition not supported by scripture.
I had a serious issue in my marriage that clearly fell under the need for church discipline. It was NOT addressed because we weren't members while having attended faithfully for almost 4 years. I almost walk away. Church membership is NOT part of Matthew 18. I was under my pastor's authority thr entire time I was not a member. Spare me.
Two wrongs don't make a right, your pastor should have dealt with it for sure, but why attend a church for years and years and not become a member? That's a serious question?
Who said anything about a building? Think of what he was saying more in the terms of fellowship. I didn't always have a "home church" but i still felt i was a member of a church because of the people God put into my life. I was on the road had good friends that met the accountability aspect then i found thru one of those friends a trucker church that worshiped on Sunday using a party line set up where regardless of where you were at you were on the phone with other Christians worshiping. We had a pastor who was a truck driver. So physically i was alone in my truck but i was in church.
In my case I had resisted simply because nobody could explain to me why I should join. What convinced me was Matthew 18--if the final step is to put the offender out of the church, there's an assumption that he's *in* the church in such a way that he can be put out. Which, providentially enough, is quite relevant to the Lawson situation.
To me, official membership is a bit irrelevant here. I say that because if Steve was guest preaching at these churches multiple times, he is in essence a member of that church. As such, even with his so-called guest speaker status, he should have been held accountable at all times. It is a cop out for the church to claim he wasn’t held accountable because he wasn’t a member. The issue with Steve goes beyond official membership. This focus on linking the issues with Steve is silly and in the church’s case, a bit cowardly in my opinion.
What else can TBC do to him? They can, of course, try to talk with him, but it sounds like he's "ghosted" pretty much everyone. They've already removed him from the pulpit, as has everyone else he was associated with. So what else? They can't remove him from membership, because he isn't one.
Corinthians is not written to a “local church”. Corinthians is written to a city wherein the Body of Christ resides in various localities. That is nothing remotely like modern institutional “local” church groups as they exist today and cannot be compared in that way, nor can the modern institutions be defended using these scriptures. Yes we are all members of the Body of Christ. There is only one. When you say “church membership” you DONT mean what Paul means he says “member”. Paul is referring to individual parts of One whole Body. “Members” refers to organs or limbs etc. “church membership” on the other hand refers to the submissive allegiance to an institution. This is not what Paul is talking about. I really hate that sly play on words with “membership”. 3000 souls were added to the greater group of those known as believers. You see what you want to see. It’s crazy. Don’t you suppose that if they knew so very well who each person was that they would have a more exact number rather than “about 3000”? If you want to see your institution in the Bible, you will find it. But in actuality it is completely foreign to the scriptures. “The shepherds need to know who the sheep are” In any capacity where believers meet or know one another, they will know one another well enough. The gathered people can handle issues of conflict like any community or family would. “It’s implied” nonsense. You can claim it implies pretty much whatever you want. Claiming something is implied is most certainly not “proof”.
Who hurt you? Most of us knew what he was implying and knew the context but you're angry, why? Most of us know that the early church wouldn't resemble what we think of as church today but the structure is still the same because its modeled from not only svripture but the early church. Alot of things are just dressing and not important but that's not what he was referring to.
Thank you so much Pastor Michael for your excellent explanation and summation of the need to be a part of a local church as members for accountability purposes. As soon as my husband and I moved to another State and was visiting a church, my husband made the decision for us to become members there after much prayer and looking at the Scriptures.
I want to know why Ligionier and Grace to you were happy to have him preach when he was not a member of a church or a pastor yet they considered membership essential.
I get what you’re saying and agree in a perfect situation. However. Unfortunately the devils in the details. Politics and numbers are awful and in many churches. I can go on in detail but won’t. Good video
In my area we are surrounded by WOF and NAR churches. I have come out of a WOF church and now attend the same church every NT Christian attended- Home church. These early NT believers worshipped together, fellowshipped together, served together, exercised their spiritual gifts together, evangelized, and ministered to the poor together- all without church membership or stepping into a church building. They did not go to church (a building) because they understood that as a Christian you don’t go to church-you are the church! How many today go to church but fail to be the church? I wonder how many today have a false sense of security just because they go to a church building every week and have membership and trust in that for their salvation? As much as I appreciate this channel, I must disagree with the speculation, assumptions, and implications put upon the text to support the necessity of church membership. Finally, I’m saddened to think of how many people this message will add condemnation, shame and guilt to those who do not go to a church building every week and join a membership but are true Christ-followers who love God, and serve Him outside of the 4 walls of a church building. Pastor Mike- we can simply agree to disagree 😊
The reason we haven't taken church membership vows is because our pastor doesn't take reciprocal vows to us. Kind of like a wedding ceremony where only one spouse takes vows....
If your surrounded by liberal churches or bad doctrine assemblys, i guess im outside of the body? But i thought were in the body and are sealed till the day for redemption because of the faith in Christ for his deity,death, and resurrection?
Some people like me! Don't feel comfortable around people! Period. I was a pastor. But I've no problem with services. But I don't want the people. As I said I'm very uncomfortable. I started going to a local mission where I feel somewhat comfortable. But now someone is going to say my salvation is in question because I'm not a member? I respect leadership ( or most of them). But I can encourage myself. Most encouraging is lame! And believe me: I'm not decieved..I know how much I fall short.
Accountability is very important! One needs to be under the umbrella of a local church even to lead a Bible study at home - just to make sure there is no wandering off track.
And if you find that a doctrine in your church does not match what Scripture teaches, what then? You are forced to choose between a man made document and God's Word. Most people simply trust their pastor over what they themselves read. Fill in the blank: anything you hold more highly than the Word of God is an _______.
I'd just like to expand on what you said, Pastor Grant - being a member of a church is not only biblical, but how God equips his people to grow His church. God has given the local churches shepherds / teachers, who are responsible to equip the church members by teaching the faith as outlined by the OT prophets and NT Apostles, so that everyone, including those who are gifted evangelists, can grow the number of believers. The local church also grows as the church members are taught the true faith and the true knowledge about Christ so we aren't carried away by false teachings, but instead the church members lovingly speak true doctrines to each other and the local church members in maturity (i.e. discipleship). Ephesians 4:11-16 (ESV) 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
I think one point that is missing is location. Living in a very rural area there is no biblical church without going 200 miles around trip. 3 hours in a car. The churches that are here have closed down. The rest are Lutheran (one service a month), Catholic Church, and the last allow/want women pastors. Same church does not reach out to the community. Not biblical sound. I completely agree with church and membership. But current situation simple does not allow. That is the one benefit of the internet. Able to watch church service, like your church.
My husband has always either resisted or refused to join a church. Then a few years back he confided to his small group that he didn't think he was a Christian. I have had my doubts for years about his salvation. We are now living in a rural community and attending a small church. He has mentioned a few times about joining and now I am resistant. I am not sure what to do. I have encouraged my husband to talk to the church's pastor about his questions/doubts but he just shrugs his shoulders. I'm open to suggestions.
Doubts are normal, if he believes Jesus rose from the dead and he has a desire to live right then take a step of faith and join. If he doesn't join right away set the best example you can and keep praying for him.
What can you say to those who have experienced spiritual heavy handedness while serving as committed church members? For example the pastor requiring his permission to leave his church for another or to make a decision to move to another city etc.
If you need to ask permission from the pastor to make decisions like that it sounds more like a cult than a church. Don't let a few bad apples ruin things for you, asking a pastor for advice is one thing but to ask permission on which house to buy or what city to move to, he has no right to tell you what to do. Unless it's ministry activity he directly oversees or unless you are doing something openly sinful a pastor can't tell people what to do and what not to do.
Wasn't Steve fired from TMS along with no longer preaching at that church? Not to mention any other benefits that came with the positions he was in. He is being held accountable more than others who have fallen and were church members.
It makes you wonder what exactly this guy thinks “hold accountable” means and why he thinks Steve cannot be held accountable. What would he have them do? Slap his wrist? Kick his dog?
@@JohnBerkstresser I believe the burden of proof is upon the one who is claiming the Bible teaches “church membership is mandated and necessary “ Chapter and verse please…
@@tommystacker3286 I Corinthians 14:40 "Let everything be done decently and in order." I realize the context of this verse is about the gift of tongues, but there's a overarching principle taught here that what we do as believers shouldn't be haphazard or done out of self-will. The primary issue of this video was that Steve Lawson had and has no accountability specifically because he was not a church member. If someone is just an attendee, they are a maverick Christian who is not doing things decently and in order. The principle of accountability and order in the church taught in Scripture trumps whether or not there is a specific verse on being part of a church roll.
Former member of the atheist religion. Please help. I would love to attend a church. A catholic school business church is literally across the street nearly sharing parking lots. I pass by everyday. It doesn't feel right, and the people that go there are the rudest humans. Used to get dragged to singing dancing TV show rockrap concert halls called church, but those never felt right. Both kind of churchs, and the usa school systems history of catholic had turned me atheist for over 35 years. Last January 2024, Facts and history and science showed me that Jesus is very real. I had to gather 5 different translations because they are all wrong according to someone. So main question. Which bible is absolutely the real one? Second question. Which church is the oldest and where in the bible can I research with church is true? (All I find in any bible about church is The Way)
Its a mistake to choose a church based on which one is the oldest. Its generally understood that given enough time a good church will go apostate. For example the letters to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. They all started out good, some went bad, and today they are gone. Just because someone argues Rome or the Orthodox are the oldest organized church they both have changed over time and neither still hold to the true gospel that salvation is by grace alone thru faith, not of works (Eph 2:8-9) however works is evidence of salvation (Eph 2:10, James 2). Find a church that preaches the true gospel, has a sense of reverence to the worship and doesn't use a false Bible like The Message or some paraphrase. Look for a sound doctrinal statement on the website and then see if they preach what they profess to believe. If the people and pastor are friendly join.
Do they practice discipline if a member for example gets arrested or cheats on their spouse? If that's how they do it then at least it's a type of membership where there is accountability. I assume that means CC members have no say in anything the church does or how it spends money etc?
Resisting church membership is almost always due to lack of commitment and or not wanting accountability. There could be exceptions but that is almost always the reason.
Hello Pastor Grant! First of all, I love you. And I love your ministry.
And because of this, I want to kindly ask : Could you explain what about Paul & Peter & the Apostles? What about ITINERANT PREACHERS in general? Does not God call some to itinerant ministry like Paul & many of the Apostles? What about them?
@@johnprajwalpaul2005gmailcom good question, Paul was a member of the church at Antioch (Acts 13:1-4) and Peter depending on when it was, he appears to have been not only a member of the first church in Jerusalem but also tradition says he was the Bishop of Rome. Rome is debatable but I get your point that people who are sent out on a mission may not stay in one place but in the Bible they were sent out by a local church they were a member of and even while they are out on mission they were found in and among the local churches. The Interrante preachers in the Bible who were not connected to a local church were usually the false teachers the apostles warned about. Read 2 John, he warns not to put them up for the night or welcome them into your house. Lone ranger Christians and rouge preachers have always been a problem.
@Pastor_Grant Thanks for the response! And I loved it 🥰! By the way, even if SL was accountable to no one else, he was still accountable to the board of OnePassion (just like how Paul was also accountable to his ministry associates like Timothy/Luke/Titus), to whom he later confessed & VOLUNTARILY resigned. So although his church membership may be an issue, I find his resignation encouraging. Looks like he has taken the first step in the road of Repentance. Praying for his complete Repentance.
I began to study this issue in depth after seeing several instances of church discipline, where the person disciplined hadn't actually sinned but was in violation of a membership contract.
There is no biblical prescription for membership as it is practiced today. Even if you can twist the verses you mentioned to mean some form of official group membership, there is nothing in the Bible or in early church history that grants additional authority based on a manmade document. Let the Bible be sufficient for elder authority.
But few people think through this anymore. And it is evidenced by the fact that you have to throw negative aspertions on anyone who would disagree, saying that if you don't agree with an extra-biblical practice you must therefore hate authority and accountability.
What a thing to say! Authority is established by God's Word, not a manmade document. Accountability is from fellow believers and from the elders of your church. You don't need a manmade document to enforce that.
When you begin the practice of church discipline, do you go to your church membership form? Or do you go to the Bible? Does the Bible not grant each church the authority it needs to deal with sin in the church?
I posted a challenge but it doesn't appear. I will assume it was my own error, so I will try again.
The Bible verses you quote do not prescribe church membership as it is practiced today, even if you can somehow claim that they describe a sort of organization to the church. I have seen church membership abused - used to justify church discipline for "lack of unity" or "failure to submit" to a pastor or elder even where no real sin existed!
How can the church justify a manmade document that grants people access to levels of fellowship they can't get simply by being Spirit-filled Christians? Again, why is there no teaching on this in Scripture if it is so integral to our modern concept of church?
To say that anyone who avoids church membership is guilty of not wanting authority or accountability is to claim that the Bible is not sufficient for keeping order or establishing authority and accountability. You must need an extra layer - a signed manmade document?
I can find not justification for this practice, either in the pages of Scripture or in the pages of early church history.
What you’re teaching here is true, supported by Scripture and logic. It’s unfortunate that I am still wandering like a lost sheep after over 2 years of visiting many churches in my area. There are a few churches that haven’t been influenced by the charismatic movement or liberal beliefs, but in those few churches, I find myself feeling very out of place for not having a family. I’m the only one who comes in alone and social events are always centered around parents with children. I’ve tried the SBC affiliated churches that have massive congregations where I might find some who are in various life stages, but there’s a clear influence of what is called “big eva,” and the doctrine has been changed to be more palatable. I’ve shed a lot of tears over this painful search for a church family.
Sometimes, the other reason, is to keep yourself away from toxic church politics, which could weigh down on someone’s soul.
There is certainly a time to leave and go somewhere else.
Discernment
AMEN! Too many Christians are treating Church like so many do with marriage: "Let's just live together and not make the commitment of getting married."
It would take a miracle for someone who teaches one must "join a church" expressed as "church membership" in the way it is commonly practiced; "the pastor and the sunday church service" to abandon this religious tradition not supported by scripture.
I had a serious issue in my marriage that clearly fell under the need for church discipline. It was NOT addressed because we weren't members while having attended faithfully for almost 4 years. I almost walk away. Church membership is NOT part of Matthew 18. I was under my pastor's authority thr entire time I was not a member. Spare me.
Two wrongs don't make a right, your pastor should have dealt with it for sure, but why attend a church for years and years and not become a member? That's a serious question?
Church is the bride of Jesus Christ , not a building.
💯
Who said anything about a building?
Think of what he was saying more in the terms of fellowship.
I didn't always have a "home church" but i still felt i was a member of a church because of the people God put into my life. I was on the road had good friends that met the accountability aspect then i found thru one of those friends a trucker church that worshiped on Sunday using a party line set up where regardless of where you were at you were on the phone with other Christians worshiping. We had a pastor who was a truck driver. So physically i was alone in my truck but i was in church.
In my case I had resisted simply because nobody could explain to me why I should join. What convinced me was Matthew 18--if the final step is to put the offender out of the church, there's an assumption that he's *in* the church in such a way that he can be put out. Which, providentially enough, is quite relevant to the Lawson situation.
To me, official membership is a bit irrelevant here. I say that because if Steve was guest preaching at these churches multiple times, he is in essence a member of that church. As such, even with his so-called guest speaker status, he should have been held accountable at all times. It is a cop out for the church to claim he wasn’t held accountable because he wasn’t a member. The issue with Steve goes beyond official membership. This focus on linking the issues with Steve is silly and in the church’s case, a bit cowardly in my opinion.
What else can TBC do to him? They can, of course, try to talk with him, but it sounds like he's "ghosted" pretty much everyone. They've already removed him from the pulpit, as has everyone else he was associated with. So what else? They can't remove him from membership, because he isn't one.
Corinthians is not written to a “local church”. Corinthians is written to a city wherein the Body of Christ resides in various localities. That is nothing remotely like modern institutional “local” church groups as they exist today and cannot be compared in that way, nor can the modern institutions be defended using these scriptures.
Yes we are all members of the Body of Christ. There is only one.
When you say “church membership” you DONT mean what Paul means he says “member”. Paul is referring to individual parts of One whole Body. “Members” refers to organs or limbs etc. “church membership” on the other hand refers to the submissive allegiance to an institution. This is not what Paul is talking about.
I really hate that sly play on words with “membership”.
3000 souls were added to the greater group of those known as believers. You see what you want to see. It’s crazy.
Don’t you suppose that if they knew so very well who each person was that they would have a more exact number rather than “about 3000”? If you want to see your institution in the Bible, you will find it. But in actuality it is completely foreign to the scriptures.
“The shepherds need to know who the sheep are”
In any capacity where believers meet or know one another, they will know one another well enough. The gathered people can handle issues of conflict like any community or family would.
“It’s implied” nonsense. You can claim it implies pretty much whatever you want.
Claiming something is implied is most certainly not “proof”.
Who hurt you?
Most of us knew what he was implying and knew the context but you're angry, why?
Most of us know that the early church wouldn't resemble what we think of as church today but the structure is still the same because its modeled from not only svripture but the early church. Alot of things are just dressing and not important but that's not what he was referring to.
Thank you so much Pastor Michael for your excellent explanation and summation of the need to be a part of a local church as members for accountability purposes. As soon as my husband and I moved to another State and was visiting a church, my husband made the decision for us to become members there after much prayer and looking at the Scriptures.
I want to know why Ligionier and Grace to you were happy to have him preach when he was not a member of a church or a pastor yet they considered membership essential.
It's possible he was a member of a church when they first partnered but yes I agree this is a big problem.
I get what you’re saying and agree in a perfect situation. However. Unfortunately the devils in the details. Politics and numbers are awful and in many churches. I can go on in detail but won’t. Good video
How about we fight for the Gospel going to Afghanistan with the same force that we fight for church membership?
In my area we are surrounded by WOF and NAR churches.
I have come out of a WOF church and now attend the same church every NT Christian attended- Home church.
These early NT believers worshipped together, fellowshipped together, served together, exercised their spiritual gifts together, evangelized, and ministered to the poor together- all without church membership or stepping into a church building.
They did not go to church (a building) because they understood that as a Christian you don’t go to church-you are the church!
How many today go to church but fail to be the church?
I wonder how many today have a false sense of security just because they go to a church building every week and have membership and trust in that for their salvation?
As much as I appreciate this channel, I must disagree with the speculation, assumptions, and implications put upon the text to support the necessity of church membership.
Finally, I’m saddened to think of how many people this message will add condemnation, shame and guilt to those who do not go to a church building every week and join a membership but are true Christ-followers who love God, and serve Him outside of the 4 walls of a church building.
Pastor Mike- we can simply agree to disagree 😊
@@tommystacker3286 I agree with you, and actually I have a serious check in my spirit that signing a membership document is not pleasing to God.
Well said.
The reason we haven't taken church membership vows is because our pastor doesn't take reciprocal vows to us. Kind of like a wedding ceremony where only one spouse takes vows....
If your surrounded by liberal churches or bad doctrine assemblys, i guess im outside of the body? But i thought were in the body and are sealed till the day for redemption because of the faith in Christ for his deity,death, and resurrection?
You are correct- anyone who is truly saved is a member of Christ’s body whether you attend a church building or not!
Ok who keep accountable those in leadership? Clearly Steve wasn’t. Sadly 9-10 they are wolves and not shepherds.
Thank you Pastor Grant.
Some people like me! Don't feel comfortable around people! Period. I was a pastor. But I've no problem with services. But I don't want the people. As I said I'm very uncomfortable. I started going to a local mission where I feel somewhat comfortable. But now someone is going to say my salvation is in question because I'm not a member? I respect leadership ( or most of them). But I can encourage myself. Most encouraging is lame! And believe me: I'm not decieved..I know how much I fall short.
Accountability is very important! One needs to be under the umbrella of a local church even to lead a Bible study at home - just to make sure there is no wandering off track.
And if you find that a doctrine in your church does not match what Scripture teaches, what then?
You are forced to choose between a man made document and God's Word. Most people simply trust their pastor over what they themselves read.
Fill in the blank: anything you hold more highly than the Word of God is an _______.
I'd just like to expand on what you said, Pastor Grant - being a member of a church is not only biblical, but how God equips his people to grow His church. God has given the local churches shepherds / teachers, who are responsible to equip the church members by teaching the faith as outlined by the OT prophets and NT Apostles, so that everyone, including those who are gifted evangelists, can grow the number of believers. The local church also grows as the church members are taught the true faith and the true knowledge about Christ so we aren't carried away by false teachings, but instead the church members lovingly speak true doctrines to each other and the local church members in maturity (i.e. discipleship).
Ephesians 4:11-16 (ESV)
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
I think one point that is missing is location. Living in a very rural area there is no biblical church without going 200 miles around trip. 3 hours in a car. The churches that are here have closed down. The rest are Lutheran (one service a month), Catholic Church, and the last allow/want women pastors. Same church does not reach out to the community. Not biblical sound.
I completely agree with church and membership. But current situation simple does not allow. That is the one benefit of the internet. Able to watch church service, like your church.
Steve Lawson not being a member of Trinity Bible Church as been disproven. He and his wife were indeed members. G3 Ministries put out a video.
This is a disputed fact but I did make changes and updates in consideration of what G3 is saying, thank you!
My husband has always either resisted or refused to join a church. Then a few years back he confided to his small group that he didn't think he was a Christian. I have had my doubts for years about his salvation. We are now living in a rural community and attending a small church. He has mentioned a few times about joining and now I am resistant. I am not sure what to do. I have encouraged my husband to talk to the church's pastor about his questions/doubts but he just shrugs his shoulders. I'm open to suggestions.
Doubts are normal, if he believes Jesus rose from the dead and he has a desire to live right then take a step of faith and join. If he doesn't join right away set the best example you can and keep praying for him.
What can you say to those who have experienced spiritual heavy handedness while serving as committed church members? For example the pastor requiring his permission to leave his church for another or to make a decision to move to another city etc.
If you need to ask permission from the pastor to make decisions like that it sounds more like a cult than a church. Don't let a few bad apples ruin things for you, asking a pastor for advice is one thing but to ask permission on which house to buy or what city to move to, he has no right to tell you what to do. Unless it's ministry activity he directly oversees or unless you are doing something openly sinful a pastor can't tell people what to do and what not to do.
G3 ministry just came out today saying Steve and his wife were members of the church he was attending. 🤔
@@Carol-k8k these facts are disputed.
Wasn't Steve fired from TMS along with no longer preaching at that church? Not to mention any other benefits that came with the positions he was in. He is being held accountable more than others who have fallen and were church members.
It makes you wonder what exactly this guy thinks “hold accountable” means and why he thinks Steve cannot be held accountable. What would he have them do? Slap his wrist? Kick his dog?
There’s absolutely no biblical mandate for “church membership”. It is not necessary and it is absolutely not biblical. 😃
You are correct- in my opinion this is not sound teaching.
Scripture please. Prove your point from God's Word.
@@JohnBerkstresser I believe the burden of proof is upon the one who is claiming the Bible teaches “church membership is mandated and necessary “
Chapter and verse please…
@@tommystacker3286 I Corinthians 14:40 "Let everything be done decently and in order." I realize the context of this verse is about the gift of tongues, but there's a overarching principle taught here that what we do as believers shouldn't be haphazard or done out of self-will. The primary issue of this video was that Steve Lawson had and has no accountability specifically because he was not a church member. If someone is just an attendee, they are a maverick Christian who is not doing things decently and in order. The principle of accountability and order in the church taught in Scripture trumps whether or not there is a specific verse on being part of a church roll.
Former member of the atheist religion.
Please help.
I would love to attend a church. A catholic school business church is literally across the street nearly sharing parking lots. I pass by everyday. It doesn't feel right, and the people that go there are the rudest humans.
Used to get dragged to singing dancing TV show rockrap concert halls called church, but those never felt right.
Both kind of churchs, and the usa school systems history of catholic had turned me atheist for over 35 years. Last January 2024, Facts and history and science showed me that Jesus is very real. I had to gather 5 different translations because they are all wrong according to someone.
So main question. Which bible is absolutely the real one?
Second question. Which church is the oldest and where in the bible can I research with church is true? (All I find in any bible about church is The Way)
Its a mistake to choose a church based on which one is the oldest. Its generally understood that given enough time a good church will go apostate. For example the letters to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. They all started out good, some went bad, and today they are gone. Just because someone argues Rome or the Orthodox are the oldest organized church they both have changed over time and neither still hold to the true gospel that salvation is by grace alone thru faith, not of works (Eph 2:8-9) however works is evidence of salvation (Eph 2:10, James 2). Find a church that preaches the true gospel, has a sense of reverence to the worship and doesn't use a false Bible like The Message or some paraphrase. Look for a sound doctrinal statement on the website and then see if they preach what they profess to believe. If the people and pastor are friendly join.
Calvary Chapel nationwide does not have a formal membership- if you attend regularly- you’re considered a member.
Do they practice discipline if a member for example gets arrested or cheats on their spouse? If that's how they do it then at least it's a type of membership where there is accountability. I assume that means CC members have no say in anything the church does or how it spends money etc?