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U-Boat Trap: Q-Ships of the Great War
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- Опубліковано 31 бер 2022
- The naval war in the Atlantic, fought mostly by German submarines against allied merchant ships, forced the allies to find new ways to defend their vital supply lines. One of the solutions was the creation of an entirely new kind of ship, which hid heavy armament behind the appearance of a helpless merchant ship.
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Ermal Fraze invented the aluminium can pull tab a "simlpe" idea that changed lives
I don't know if you heard about the stories about a Fictional Scottish steam puffer named the Vital Spark and her crew especially her Captain Parra Handy. in at least one story the Vital Spark is a Q-ship and sinks at least one German U-boat.
Often the Q-Ships, anticipating being damaged during action and sometimes deliberately exposing themselves to an initial torpedoing or shelling to draw a submarine to the surface, had their holds (having no cargo aboard) and other spaces filled with very buoyant materials such as empty drums or balsa wood so they could absorb large amounts of damage without sinking.
They tried that with aircraft too, using ping pong balls.
Smart.
@@rpbajb And lifeboats... if I remember correctly!
They tried using the Q-ships again in WWII. The Germans didn't fall for it, but the Japanese did a few times.
It did work for a short while. The end result of these tactics in both world wars is the cessation of warning shots and surface attacks. Killing more sailors overall.
And the Germans stopped trying to rescue the crews of the ships they had torpedoed. A bad idea altogether for the crews but for the admiralty, did the crews ever matter compared to the propaganda potential of a sunk enemy submarine!
For anyone interested in first hand accounts of the great war, I would recommend Lyn McDonald's series. She wrote one for each year of conflict, these are; The Days of Hope, The Death of Innocence, The Somme, They Called it Passchendaele and To The Last Man.. She also wrote, The Roses of No Man's Land, an account of the medical staff at home and at the front during the war. All her writing is based upon interviews with veterans carried out from the seventies onwards. She died age 91 in 2021, her interviews she donated to the Imperial war museum.
I would agree 100% with that. Sad news to hear of her passing, something I was not aware of. For the war at Sea Jutland 1916 "Death in the grey wastes" by Hart and Steel makes an interesting read, others to.
@@jimbeam3280 Thanks mate, I'll check it out. I visited HMS Caroline last year, she's the only surviving ship from that battle. A light cruiser, she's moored in Belfast, not far from the more famous Titanic museum. Well worth a visit if you're ever in my part of the world.
@@davymckeown4577 Visiiting Caroline is firmly at the top of my bucket list. She survived by being a drill ship for the Naval reserves. Similar to the wooden wall frigate from the 1830's, up in Dundee. Cannot for the life of me recall her name. Another naval book which draws on personal experiences of the men is "The sailors war 1914-1918" by Peter H Liddle.
@@jimbeam3280 Thanks again, hope you get to visit. You could take in the SS Nomadic in the same day, I was unaware she played a small role in both wars until I took my son in law there when he was visiting from Australia.
I've studied as an amateur both WW1 & 2 for 40 years, it brings tears to think all the veterans from WW1 at now gone. Wow! They are a part of my being, my heart!
A similar set up of disgused Norwegian Fishing boats was used during WW2 to feed agents and carry out covert attacks, most notably on Tirpitz, during WW2 . It was known coloquially as the Shetland Bus.
Back in the early to mid 1960s, there was a toy Q-ship. It was battery-powered, and would roll along the floor until you pressed a button -- it would start sounding an alarm and get longer, and as it did so, guns would pop up into view.
I had that when I was a kid.🙂
One interesting German q-ship of the war was the sms seeadler, a three masted steel hulled sailing ship, one of the last fighting sailing ships to be used in war and captained by the rather colorful character, Felix von luckner. Honestly a bit of history I'd love to hear you talk about 😁
My grandfather Charles John Thomas was stationed at Grimsby in The Great War at HMS Pekin which was the organisation centre for the minesweepers disguised as trawlers, according to family he was shipwrecked during his service although we haven’t yet been able to find any further details so far - still digging.
11:13 Not the Axis powers... the Central powers! Great video, and perfect for the day it was posted! You can imagine some Q-Boat Captain muttering "April Fools" as the guns are run out and trained on a U-Boat...
Came down here looking for these comments ("Axis" and "April Fools"). Was not disappointed! 👍🏻
Q ships are one of the best example of Allied double Standards! Perfides Albion.
@@brittakriep2938 Still upset you lost eh kraut? lol.
@@JohnyG29 : What do you mean, you red indian slaughterer and slave owner? At first : Unconditioal U - Boot warfare is against prisal rules! But tricking U- Boot crews respecting prisal rules is good, because done by Allies! Clearly double standard.
Back in the 1950s when I was a little kid, one of the first models I put together was one of these "Q-Ships". May have been a Reveille Model
It even had a British seaplane - biplane type concealed in a below decks hatch with a crane to lift it out and lower it onto the water. Memories!
Lindberg models produced a plastic kit of a "Q" ship in 1/390 scale back in the 1950s. I built it as a kid back in the late 1960s. It was reissued a few years ago and is probably fairly easy to purchase on-line.
@@WAL_DC-6B Thanks
I will check it our. Wsnt to redo it for memory's sake.
Ship models were a major hobby of mine as well, as a kid in the 70's.
@@WAL_DC-6B I built one back then. Probably my first ship model.
Thanks for another interesting story about naval combat. Surprised that you didn't mention the triple sinkings of the cruisers HMS Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue by U-9 on September 22, 1914. That action transformed a machine once regarded by many navies as a curious toy into a serious weapon of war.
Spot on comment Mr. Klug! Many navies also realized that they had no means to detect a submerged boat and no weapons to destroy it.
Not everyone watches histiograph.
Great subject. The number of Victoria Crosses awarded to crew members of these Q ships is impressive. Even though they proved to be largely ineffective due to the strategy change of the Germans, that change was important. They saved lives by forcing the sub crews to be more cautious every time they encountered a target.
Indeed. Sometimes it's the smallest changes that end up being the most significant.
Sounds like they passed out the VC's just as frivolously as they pass out Knighthood in modern times.
@@richardcline1337 I wouldn't say frivolously as much as I'd say selectively.
There weren't/aren't that many handed out in total but who they were handed out to is sometimes questionable.
There have been scores of deserving people over the years (centuries?) who never got a moments' consideration while others seemed like they got one for rather trivial reasons.
Would be great to see a episode on the German raider "Wolf".
The WW1 raider that caused havoc across the Pacific and indian Oceans capturing and sinking merchant ships as well as laying mines off the coast of Australia and New Zealand
Of course, the last thing you want in modern warfare is a “fair fight”. The goal is to totally overmatch your enemy in terms of firepower, stealth, surprise, technology and training.
British Double Standard!
If you walk into a fair fight, you've not adequately prepared 🤣
'Modern' warfare? Try any warfare ever.
Had a sergeant who would constantly tell us, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
The sponsorship ad insert for Magellan TV was executed flawlessly. It related perfectly to the context of the video. It's not often that I don't fast forward through a sponsor ad.
Another masterful history lesson from this world class historian !!
Fun fact, one ww1 Q ship still exists, she’s called HMS President (1918), I believe there is an attempt to restore her to her former glory, but unfortunately it doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere.
Gordon Campbell was a remarkable man for a number of reasons. Only three men have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross twice. Arthur Martin Lleake South African Constabulary and RAMC , Noel Godfrey Chevasse , RAMC. and Chales Hazlitt Upham NZEF. I have read that Gordon Campbell *turned down* a second VC. I have tried to find out why he did so, but to no avail. He was awarded as well as the VC a Distinguished Service Order and two bars. Meaning of course that he earned 3 DSO's. Perhaps he felt over awarded , or, did not want the public publicity it would have certainly brought. Whatever his reasoning, crewing a Q ship was a hairy business. Being the bait in a trap is not for the faint hearted.
Reportedly the Navy used sailing vessels as Q-Ships as well. I remember the story by Freiherr v. Spiegel who fought with one.
My father did one Q-ship tour in the north Atlantic aboard the USS Bighorn, a converted tanker. He was a Coast Guard Photographer's Mate. They never saw any action, although one whale picked up on sonar came close to oblivion.
@11:20 It was the "Central Powers" not the "Axis". A minor flub for sure and I certainly could not have done any better or even come close. Outstanding research and presentation, as always!
There was a superb series on BBC tv in the 1960's called The Great War. A series was made using the outtakes from this series. Max Hastings the historian gathered them together I believe. There was no narration only a few subtexts, just these wonderful old boys and girls talking and nothing else. It was all the more powerful for that.
I have known WW1 veterans from France Ireland, Spain, Russian, Canada America. My fellow classmates remember the great grandmother who called me Changeling. They didn't have a problem going in depth with descriptions and memories of what she saw nor anyone else who served then. WW 2 were more quiet about their experiences. 1 of my oldest friends her mother was a little girl in London during the blackouts. They would be in the tunnels and quite a few times Winston Churchill would hide together during the Blitzkrieg. 3x their home was destroyed and they had it repaired. The 3rd time they were given a fancy place because her sisters name was the same as Winston's wife's name. I know that shortly before my friend moved in to my neighborhood they had returned from Mrs Churchill funeral. She always loved the smell of cigars because of her memories. I remember once when someone had a blunt and she said let me smell that.🤣 She said they don't make cigars like they use to . After about 5 minutes of hotboxing. She said I hope the ham is done. Oh Cheetos! I don't know if anyone told her . But she was hilarious that Christmas 🎄. A regular Phyllis Diller ! Sorry about that for my rambling on. Have a great weekend and April GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
God bless You 🙏
@@barrydysert2974 I have truly been!
Thank you Lance for another extremely interesting episode ! I always learn the most amazing things here !
As a Boomer (Old Fart), I've always been fascinated by the Idea of Q-Ships. Probably since I first saw the movie Under Ten Flags. Years ago when I first signed up for Sony PlayStation my name has always been "Qship". Thanks for the memories.
The Q ships are fascinating and I was impressed by the inclusion of the Kingfisher. Her captain's father had commanded another 4th rate Mary Rose in an identical action against the same number of pirates ten years before with similar results. The Royal Navy commissioned a purposely designed Q ship named Hyderabad in the last year of the war but it saw no action, whilst the French protected cruiser Chateaurenault had been built with a merchant style stern as an aid to commerce raiding. There was of course the infamous Barolung and the sinking of U27 and U41. The forrmer action may well have delayed the United States entry into WW I.
The first I came across the term "Q-ship" was in some submarine fiction, which depicted a "Q-ship" loaded full of ping-pong balls, making it almost impossible to sink. A sub captain wants to shoot a target that is beyond such a Q-ship, and is aware of what it is. He orders the depth setting of one or more torpedoes set so they can cruise under the high-riding Q-ship and hit the target on the other side. This story was set in WWII.
When I was in grade one, a veteran came to my school to speak of his experience, in the BOER WAR.
Truly look forward to these pieces of history. Magellan TV is a must for history lovers.
Thank you for this story!! I'm 64 and as a child my grandmother's friend Mrs Mackie who's husband had fought in WW1 told me a story with a Q- ship in it!!
Now I know the origin of Q Ships.
SciFi Author David Webber, Creator of the Honor Harrington Universe in the First book { On Basilisk Station } Introducing Honor Harrington but also the make up of a space navy vs wet navy and of course Q ships.
I was unaware of the use of Q ships in wet navies but not surprised. Honor Harrington named her six legged Companion Nimitz and she being an Officer in the Royal Manticorian Navy was an avid amateur historian of the Wet navies of old Earth.
I would really love to hear you do a talk on the sinking of
Viribus Unitis
A story of great valor and some comedy
Frank
Whoa, the Germans during war time were able to make 120 submarines in 3 years? That’s pretty amazing
When I was a kid in the sixties here in England every old person's house you went round would have examples of "trench art" from the great war, usually in their front room/lounge and in pride of place on the mantel piece (above the fire place). It was usually in the form of brass shell cases of varying sizes, some plain, some decorated and some turned into unusual things (for want of a better word), alas now all gone.
There is a book on Q-ships during WWII. I read it and enjoyed it. Thanks for the WWI q-ship history,.
Hey History Guy! Great episode! The Great War seems largely forgotten among today’s populace, thanks for the lesson!
P.S. ~ how about an episode on the issues of reparations after the Great War, and the man who received a Nobel Peace Prize for diplomatically ending the crisis following the war?
Great content.
I'd love to have you up here for a tour on Mackinac Island.
Great history here.
Owners from Warps Flexoglass & Delta faucets have places here.
Thank you for the lesson.
I knew of these from reading about WW1 history.
Although not to the extent you covered them here.
Simulating surrender and then ambushing those combatants accepting the surrender is a war crime.
Its is a typical sign of Allied lies and double standards.
BULLSHIT......
This video needs a dazzle pattern camo Bow Tie
Wife and I are listening to this absolutely awesome every time you have never missed very good thank you very much we enjoy this very very much never stop thank you
Interesting! Never heard of this bit of naval history!
Thank you!
War. War never changes...
Misery and suffering visited upon the innocent and undeserving, the powerless, the helpless. "Unrestricted commerce raiding"- the destruction of liners and neutrals on the strength of suspicion... 😳🙀🤦
I would think, taking the average of ships sunk by U-boats, for every U-boat sunk by Q-boats, it could be extrapolated that the Q-boats saved that many ships. My grandfather was on destroyer duty in the Atlantic during WWI.
British double standard! Tricking german U- Boot crews attacking by ,Prisal Law', but whining, when german U- Boot crews attack allied ships without warning! The reason why ,Great Brittain ' was called ,Perfides Albion' by german Propaganda.
Wow that’s an awesome story. I never heard of that group of ships. Love it.
This is really cool. I don't think there is enough said about the Q-ships and their contribution.
This presentation is important because it discounts the body count dogma. Q-ships didn't sink that many submarines. Many Q-ships were lost. What the Q-ship did accomplish was to shift Imperial Germany to a submarine strategy with very bad optics. Despite being a "second generation" industrial war, international image was a war winning weapon. That's supposed to be "fifth generation warfare" but since at least the days of Atilla the Hun (aka The Scourge of God) reputation sometimes won victory before the battle. Winning without fighting is the height of generalship.
Fantastic bit there my guy
The pirates off the Somalia Coast reactivated the Q-Boat program. The navy would get a commercial ship, modify it & let it cruise really slow. The pirates would attack & have a surprise for them.
You never disappoint HG!! Great video, please keep up the great work!!
How in this world do you come up with all these wonderful stories....?
A sincere thank you
Interesting video. If you want to continue in the WW 1 mode I suggest a story about the "Polar Bears" . The American Expeditionary Force sent to Russia , all from Michigan. The fought the Bolsheviks. Many died and in 1932 bodies that could recovered were repatriated and some (32) ? were interred in White Chapel Cemetery in Troy, Michigan with a granite polar bear monument marking their graves. Last survivor died in 2007.
Fascinating story as always!!!
Great insight and very informative, many thanks as usual a great show
I recently had Q-Ship as a crossword answer so thanks for the further enlightenment!
Thank you for your content!!
This sounds similar to Operation Bolo. When F-4 Phantoms disguised themselves as F-105 "thuds" to trick Mig-21s into a battle instead of their normal "guerrilla" tactics.
A bomber pathfinder version of the P-38 fighter (known as a Droop Snoop) carried a bombardier in a plexiglass nose in place of the guns. Soon enough P-38 fighters began painting their noses to resemble the Droop Snoops. I don't know if this was to hide the Droop Snoop among a formation of P-38 fighter-bombers (the Droop Snoop guided the formation with the Norden bomb sight, and the fighters dropped their bombs at the same time the Droop Snoop did) or if it was an attempt to goad German fighters into attacking what they thought was an unarmed bomber.
I was first introduced to Q-ships by Admiral Hazard in "Alas, Babylon" by Pat Frank. It seemed like an ingenious idea.
Suggest you do a story on Peter Lassen of Mt. Lassen fame in Northern California. He was a trailblazer trying to drive a road from the Oregon territories south and ended his days out of Red Bluff amid legends of "Peter Lassen's Gold" which he used to finance his retirement years, disappearing when the snows melted and reappearing in late summer with enough gold to live through the ensuing year. Many people tried trailing him, to no avail. It is believed the dwindling Indian tribes were friends and showed him a localized vein. Iche was the last wild Indian to come into town and became quite the celebrity study subject among San Francisco's academics.
I've got a copy of Campbell's autobiographical "My Mystery Ships" about his time in Q-ships. A fascinating read, but I think overall the ships were a mistake, as they encouraged the German subs to sink merchant ships without warning.
The problem you're ignoring is that German U-boat doctrine went from "gentlemen warfare" to "sink any potential enemy you can" much faster than q-ship development. New weaponry that was powerful, fast firing and startlingly accurate at range meant that any lightly armored ship conducting commerce raiding would be immediately in trouble should any combat ship approach. If the Q-ship design accelerated the transition to open submarine warfare at all it was only by a few months at most. U-53 docked in Rhode Island and used local newspapers to track Entant merchant ships leaving port. When US navy ships stormed out to stop the attack, the Germans calmly reminded the navy ships that they were neutral and the U-boat was sinking foreign ships in international waters. The captain even demanded an American ship move out of the way of a torpedo shot. This highlights the real problem - if any British warships had arrived the Germans would have already been located and open to attack. By the time Germany began attacking American ships the possibility of safely conducting such "cruiser rules" raids was impossible with so many American and Entant warships loitering near the vital shipping lanes to pounce on any sub that might surface to search a foreign vessel or wait for crew to evacuate.
They were doing that anyway, so the Q ships were a good investment and took out a few of the b'stards.
A book worth reading is "My Mystery Ships", which is a very detailed story about the Q ships... I unfortunately can't remember the author as I first read it almost 60 years ago.. For those who still read... 😁
Interesting story. Now I know where the phrase "Q-Ship" came from. I was a little put out by his not mentioning the "Action of Sep 22, 1914" aka the Live Bait Squadron.
ive got that book'Q ships ' chatterton there is quite a lot in that book also interesting isLightholers acount as capptain of a frigit hunting UBoats the these men tell their stories gives you the impression of real adventure great vid ttfn&ty
I’ve never heard of Q ships. Thanks. Excellent as usual.
Q-Tips would have been a good sponsor of this episode.
Adds a whole new dimension to the WW 1 U-boat war and unrestricted warfare.
Always been interested in the Q Ships so thanks for another great video
Interesting video! Q-ships are mentioned in various Sci-Fi novels, but I never knew the source of the name.
Interestingly, there was actual consideration of reviving the whole Q-Ship idea to deal with Somali pirates. But that proved unnecessary as merchant ships started to have armed security guards posted on ships and real naval combat ships started to aggressively go after those pirates.
And on occasion, the pirates were stupid enough to try and go after real naval combat ships as well as a french naval supply ship which doubled as command ship.
Thank You!
l am a member of MagellanTV Thanks Mr. THG🎀.....Shoe🇺🇸
The HMS Kingfisher took part in the only Revolutionary war battle to take place in my county (Cape May Co. NJ) The Battle of Turtle Gut Inlet - June 29, 1776
Interesting and so well presented
In WWII the Kriegsmarine revived the concept by acquiring recently-built fast merchant ships and equiping them with naval artillery hidden behind trick bulkheads. These ''Auxiliary Cruisers'' were used as commerce raiders themselves. Best known of this class was the Kormoran [HSK-8]. She sank 10 Allied merchant ships and captured an 11th. She was equipped for mine-laying. Another use was supporting long range U-Boats with fuel, food, spares, extra ammo and torpedoes. On 11 NOV 41 Kormoran was 150 NM off SW Australia when she spotted the cruiser HMAS Sydney. Flying Dutch colors as a False Flag Ruse, she lured the Sydney closer, pretending to fumble with signal flags. After 15 minutes, the Australiian signalled ''Show your secret sign.'' Knowing the ruse was up, Korvettenkapitan Detmers ordered the White Kriegsmarine battle ensign raised and for the 5.9'' deck guns to commence fire. The first salvo caught the Australian unawares and both her forward turrets were smashed. Sydney fired a spread of torpedoes but Kormoran dodged them.
In the ensuing firefight, both ships wreaked mutual destruction. HMAS Sydney went down with all hands. Most of Kormoran's crew abandoned ship successfully but were soon POWs in Australia.
History that deserves to be remembered.
In wartime every nation used armed merchant ships, no special german things. For centuries privateers with a licence ( in german Kaperbrief) had been common.
@@brittakriep2938 In English, the privateer's license is called a ''Letter of Marque and Reprisal.'' Or Letter of Marque, for short. Captain Wm Kidd had been issued such a letter, but due to Court politics, it could not be found before his trial for piracy. He was hanged. About a hundred years later, Kidd's Letter of Marque came fluttering out of an old ledger at the British Admiralty.
Ah, Justice...
I would like to hear 'again' the story of "scuttlebutt" from the history guy.
Excellent.
Is there an interesting story surrounding the U505 submarine that is in the Museum of Science and Industry, in Chicago? I was stationed on the USS Albert David, which is a Fast Frigate designed for Anti-Sub operations. The man the ship was named after, Albert David, is the officer that led the boarding party that captured the U505. But that is all i know of the sub. I was wondering if the story of it's life and capture was THG worthy.
I vaguely recall that he has made a video on it. Or perhaps Mark Felton did (those two channels are quite similar in format and often have overlap in content so I often forget who did a given topic, sometimes it actually was both.)
Great subject. The dorkomotive podcast covered this subject as well in a bit more depth.
Well told!
Q-ships were tried briefly in WW2, with little success. Since Cruiser Rules weren't in force during WW2 the strategy wasn't very effective, and they were useless as part of a convoy.
Very intriguing bit of information. I have never understood until now what some of the steps to bringing the US into WW1 was. Now I do. Or at least better.
"It's a trap" on a whole new level
thanks
I Love History!
Just a couple points of interest. British masters were forbidden to obey a submarine's signal to heave to under cruiser rules, and were to ram the sub if possible as German subs were declared illegitimate for cruisers. German crewmembers were not regarded as legitimate naval personnel and rescue could be and was refused them at times. In the vessels identity manuals, like Jane's, original ones not reprints, the Lusitania is, like the Germans said, clearly listed as a armed auxiliary cruiser of the Royal Navy with two deck guns. It was a combination of reasons that lead to unrestricted war.
Which resulted in the exceqution of Charles Fryatt in 1916, who then became a national hero. His body being carried back in state in the same railway van, now known as the Cavell Wagon as Edith Cavell and the Unkown Soldier.
Q-Ships for April Fools Day - well played.
Back in the Saddle Again
During WW2, in the Pacific, Japanese q-ships typically carried their holds packed full of balsa, so that torpedo hits wouldn't sink them, and they could depth charge the sub
What the Video fails to mention is that the use of the Q Ships was allready breaking the crusierrules, and that some Q Ships actually even commited war crimes by using neutral flags or killing surrendered UBoot Crewmen en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baralong_incidents
Awesome
LOL!
I am 67 and my dad fought in WW1. Do the math. He was born in 1898. He was a pharmacist mate on a cruiser. He was 22 years older than my mom.
Another great video about submarine action from you, sir! Maybe you could someday do the story of U-9 and Otto Weddigen, which proved the usefulness of the submarine as a weapon of war when U-9 sank 3 British cruisers in 90 minutes in 1914.
@Amy Taylor Building up good stats so you can get away with spamming?
I once had a copy of "My Mystery Ships".
I currently have a 1st edition copy ...excellent read a read print is available on amazon for $36
@@johnnemo6509 Thanks I’ll check it out!
I have always wondered why the Germans went after merchant ships. It seems to me if they sunk the combat ships first, then the merchant ships would be easy,
Thanks to THG🎀....Shoe🇺🇸
Dazzle ships were cool.
The Germans had their own versions & might also make an interesting story. Thank you for this one.
Fun fact Q branch in the James Bond novels gets it’s name from the Q ships
When you look up "nerves of steel" in the encyclopedia, Campbell's picture is there. :D