Frank Zappa debates Tipper Gore, summer 1987
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2019
- Frank Zappa (in L.A.) in a debate with PMRC honcho Tipper Gore (from Washington, DC) over placing warning/rating labels on record albums, in a television news broadcast from summer 1987. The BetaGems channel also has "Dweezil Zappa 9-5-86 Rock 'N' Roll Hair video essay," "Frank Zappa interview & profile Cover Story 3-15-89 TV report," "Frank Zappa November 1985 TV interview & profile," "PMRC Senate hearings 1985: Dee Snider, John Denver, Tipper Gore," "X-Rated Rock Music 1987 TV news report with Tipper Gore of PMRC," "Frank Zappa 10-31-83 late night TV appearance," "Moon Unit and Frank Zappa TV interview 2-1-84 daytime TV show," "Z (Frank Zappa sons) with John Tesh 3-3-95 late night TV performance," "Frank Zappa 6-19-89 describes cancelled network talk show plans," "Frank Zappa takes listener calls and talks Mothers lawsuit August 1985," "Frank Zappa & Pamela Des Barres (GTOs) March 1989 TV interview," and "Dweezil & Moon Unit Zappa - Born Famous March 1989."
BetaGems are culled from an archive of over 1000 beta video tapes recorded from 1983 into the 1990s. Most feature live music performances broadcast on television in San Diego CA, though there are also rarely seen commercials, comedy clips, old TV news segments, made-for-TV movies and documentaries, religious programming, variety shows, talk show interviews, and other material that doesn't seem to be anywhere else on UA-cam or online. Most of the tapes were recorded on a Sony SL-HFT7 Super Beta Theater Hi-Fi Stereo - the same model was refurbished and is being used for these digital transfers and uploads.
In rare occasions where a BetaGems clip does appear elsewhere, we're only uploading if our own beta master is better quality or contains material not seen previously. Much footage comes from public television and public access broadcasts that the taper, who worked for a local cable TV production company in the 1980s, monitored nightly for several years. Some of the programming is strictly regional, mostly from the San Diego area.
I love how he brings up the real reason to be outraged, the Iran contra
Boom! Exactly! Currently, the potus is focused on digging up the past. Seriously? Wtf? There are far more important issues that need to be addressed. Leave the past in the past. A totally disgraceful contradiction by the majority who rally around the "change is the only constant". Nothing changes when you live in the past/dig up the past. Ashamed of what's been going on in 2021.
@@tommyeye7899 Understanding history is crucial to understanding the world today. Mistakes can't be learned from if we never know they happened. Diggin up the past in the name of some underlying political motive is sus but awareness is rarely a bad thing if you can see through the narrative
I second the comment from Mr biggusdickus
The fact that Zappa only speaks when spoken to makes me have a lot of respect for the guy
He was a very thoughtful person.... If you can't think ~why should anybody listen???
What did you expect from him? This isn't SNL.
Zappa sets a good example.
he's smart and a decent guy
This was actually much more common on older TV shows/debates; the “yelling over each other” moment started around the 90s
"sexual pornography"? as opposed to what, platonic pornography?
Social pornography maybe?
I'll have mine violent thanks
Nekkid ping pong.
With a straight face.
Very wholesome.
We're talkin' HARDCORE CUDDLIN'!
Grotesque pornography
“I think the entertainment industry should do a better job of raising my kids.”
- Tipper Gore
I think the Government should control the kinky thoughts within Tipoer Gore's brain. Naughty girl.
@benjamin, spot on.
She’s a hypocrite
They would have down a better job. Then the gores
I think you missed the point. The garbage that kids watch does have a negeitive effect. Tipper made several comments about not stopping the market but simply setting a rating of different categories. I'm just curious if you read food labels to determine what's healthy? Perhaps you don't, but there are people who do. If that's not the general consensus we put it to a vote. If it passes great if not then the people have spoken either way, that's reasonably fair, don't you agree?
Frank made some valid points, we should have the freedom to make our own decisions and use the OFF button instead of the Government regulating what we watch and do.
I agree with his thinking on that point. I don't see the problem with rating categories as long as it doesn't require massive amounts of money and government oversight.
This makes me laugh today just like it did in 1987 when I was 15 years old. Tipper Gore didn't do anything other than get a label put on CD's so we knew which ones to buy. God forbid we accidentally get the radio version. I watched every one of the Faces of Death. I grew up to be a normal, productive, adult and have raised children of my own.
Thank you Frank Zappa for being the voice of reason.
Here in the UK I was 16 in 1987 and then, for me as an avid metal fan, the British rock press covered Tipper and the PMRC quite extensively. You are absolutely correct: the Parental Advisory sticker was practically a guarantee of a fucking good record 🤣
Nothing is more assured to make kids (or any adult with an IQ greater than their shoe size for that matter) more curious about something than being told not to watch or listen to it. A prominent example: this phenomenon played a huge part in the popularity of The Sex Pistols. Perry Farrell once said that it was like someone saying, "I have to go out for ten minutes; don't look in that drawer."
And when I was at school, A Clockwork Orange, banned in the UK, was practically fetishised; every school had at least one kid who'd managed to pick up a copy of it during a family holiday in France (where it wasn't banned), and these videos would be extensively circulated. The notoriety was its unique selling point.
Ozzy Osbourne was particularly targetted by the PMRC, who for some bizarre reason felt that his records contained subliminal Satanic messages; I remember reading an Ozzy interview at the time in which he said, "If I was going to put a subliminal message in my songs, it'd be 'buy more of my fuckin' records'." 😂
Not much has changed today. The only real difference between TG and today's censors are that the latter is out to censor content online
who cares
@@jonathanwalker8730 so why would Zappa be against a warning label then?
Was never a fan of most of Zappa's music, but I always saw him as a genius,honest and funny. He was the real thing,someone who suffered a ton of fools,including a fake liberal like Tipper Gore. We really need someone like him again.
My stomach turned when they called themselves the “Washington Wives” like a play on Stepford Wives. Liberal my ass. She’s such a jerk
I feel the same, I love some of his music but not all of it, and I don't think he was very funny. But he was a genius.
Fake liberal?
She was as controlling as today's average Democrat politician.
Fun fact, Frank and Tipper were actually friends. Tipper even played drums on his daughter Diva's song, "When the Ball Drops." It isn't a very good song.
That's wild. Never would have thought they'd get together like that.
0:48 the cut to Zappa's dark figure looming over the interviewer like a sci-fi startrek transmission is hilarious
Wow... They treat Zappa like he's an idiot when he's a freaking legitimate genius.
They didn't know what they were walking into. I relished their ignorance.
@Gracchus Babeuf I like how Zappa wasn't playing the game at all especially at the end.
Hahaha not at all!
Frank was speaking on another level completely.
Well, they say that the thought process of an individual becomes foreign to people who are 20 or more iq points away from the individual. What I mean by this, is the thought process of a 100 iq individual is pretty much incomprehensible to an 80 iq individual, and vice versa. same with 120 to 100, 140 to 120, etc. I think that plays a big roll in these debates. They have no idea what zappa is talking about and can't even comprehend it, therefore he must be stupid.
We all owe Frank a debt of gratitude. While a lot of us were children (others not yet born) he stood up to high power politicians to uphold the constitution. What's ironic is tipper being a Democrat, the supposed "free party" yet here they are trying to censor things. Frank fought for our freedom of expression. This, along with his testimony with Dee Snider at Congress was a very monumental part of American history.
Fun fact about Democrats and Republicans both want to control you and your life one way or another. Republicans want to control what you put in your body Democrats want to control what you put in your mind.
Democrats are still fascists
Yes!
The Democrats have always been into censorship. They tried to have Huckleberry Finn, Lord of The Flies and other classic literature pulled from the libraries in the late eighties and early nineties, spearheaded by a liberal group known as The American Way, Nothing new here. Americans need to finally wake up and see what the Democrats (founders of the KKK btw) are really all about.
Hello Trumpie
Anybody else miss the days when you could watch an interview/debate like this and you could actually follow and keep up with the conversation, because it wasn't just a bunch of pompous, self-important jackasses talking over one another?
Yes!!
What I miss, regardless of the positions and vigor of the opposing ideas, is journalists who don't obviously take sides or interrupt or interject incessantly.
Love this!
@Wadly Pashad are you really trying to say Zappa was pompous and self-important? Lol
...they’ve slowly but surely eroded our social debate. Cancel culture has neutralized society...and the virus parted people even further now. The fear has been instilled. We’ve been sold out by the government. I’m completely disgusted by these mental cases who are in charge. It’s all part of the big plan.
Once again...Frank Zappa was completely right.
He said just putting warning labels on these records was for taking over the world, which didnt happen. And he said that children need thtese violent lyrics to convey to them drugs are bad. Wasnt there a much more nicer way to convey thtat too them then violent lyrics containing messages of suicide, rape and masterbaition?
completely WRONG.
@@3dartistguyHe didn't say kids NEED that stuff to show them that its bad, he just said that it could happen. His main point was that people should just listen to the music at face value rather than hide from it. If you cannot listen to a song without engaging with it and coming up with your own opinion on it, then thats your fault. If a certain aspect of music gets banned more and more stuff will keep getting removed until it becomes souless and cooperate. Just look at mainstream music right now. Everything feels samey and safe. There's lots of good bands out there that don't get radioplay because they're not listener friendly enough. Zappa completely predicted this
@@Qwertyuiopaz Frank Zappa was just a scuzzball. There are warning labels on everything, on magazines, there's the movie rating system, there's even something called the family viewing hour for children on television with more adult content aired on at later in the evening. And no putting warning labels isnt takiing over the world. No one is preventing these songs from being heard but again, nothing wrong with protecting innocent children with warning labels.
@@3dartistguy yeah, the point we are making (and the reality) is that not only putting labels like that doesnt work, it actually produces the reverse effect (as stated by Frank in this video,a lot of music or B-movies had success just because they had the R, its a well known phenomenon, thats why suggesting solutions like "Labels" its just an hypocrite way that bad parents choose tò justify their mistakes). PS. Positive language unfortunately DID take over the world
Here’s an interesting factoid, stated by Frank prior to his death. In 1992, when the press stated Frank was ill, Frank said the Gore’s sent him a letter expressing their concern for his health. He said he was moved by their letter.
He was moved? I remember him saying he thought it was "nice." Simple public relations on their part. Water finds its own level and the Gores are sociopaths... the perfect couple.
And whenever Frank and Tipper appeared together in public, the sexual tension was plapatable.
This is how the asshole corp Dems ceded the insane ''morality wars'' to the GOP Fascists. [This comment is not about the letter, it's about the issue.]
@@brainsareus Nazi: National Socialist Party. P.S. Frank was a Conservative. Read his book.
@holeheadmole - Naa-ah, they were more slick than that - after FZ embarrassed Tipper and Susan, her partner in crime, "arrangements were made" and Zappa's doctor "didn't find" his prostate cancer until it was inoperable - even though FZ had complained of urinary tract problems for years. They got their "plausible deniability" AND got rid of Zappa. And, best of all, they spent $4.00 at Hallmarks and got him a nice card, so no hard feelings, eh?
I watched faces of death as a kid, it turned my stomach. Talked to my father about the movie. He watched it, and talked to me on how it made me feel and gave his criticism on the film. I wasn't a fan, he wasn't a fan. Both of us went on to never imitate anything in the film.
People like Tipper Gore wanted a corporation to be able to control what a kid sees instead of a parent like she claims while her husband was voting yes on conflicts overseas that killed innocent woman and children.
I watched it when I was 10 in ‘88, didn’t have a mom or dad to tell me no let alone coach me. It was curiosity and I sought it out because of programs like this saying this is the last thing a child should see lol. Not only have I never assaulted someone, I’m very empathetic to the point I have to watch people taking advantage of my kindness.
And he remained a REMF in Vietnam thanks to Dear Old Senator Dad..AND..Climate Change conman burning more fossil fuel than any 250 of us......Again, it always falls down to lazy assed people expecting somebody else to do their job and lots of kids being left fallen on the battlefield of cinematic largesse.
He said just putting warning labels on these records was for taking over the world, which didnt happen. And he said that children need thtese violent lyrics to convey to them drugs are bad. Wasnt there a much more nicer way to convey thtt too them then violent lyrics containing messages of suicide, rape and masterbaition?
Wow, a civil conversation. I miss those days.
I remember when these debates were going on, and the discussion of violence as entertainment as a new concept baffled me.
Every time I'd think "People used to go to actual *executions* for entertainment. This is just circus blood and acting."
The moral panic at the time was incredibly weird.
Cranky Stinkleton Every decade has its moral panic. It’s always about restricting freedoms in order to “protect” people. It’s always a bunch of fucking nonsense.
This country's Puritan roots show themselves again and again, even if the religious fervor itself is dead. Many secular movements mimic Puritan logic to this day.
@@TheSpecialJ11 they’re never secular
I remember too. John Denver really took the wind out their sails. They were not expecting him to be so vehemently against censorship. It was great. They were not expecting Dee to be so articulate and basically tell Tipper her mind is in the gutter.
@@JoeDiamond110 The modern version of this mindset is secular.
Bottom line is, parents need to raise their kids how they see fit and if those kids get all wicked out or fucked up then they need to take responsibility for being the ones who raised them, instead of blaming it on pop culture.
Great point!
Everyone is missing the point.
The movies and songs what they are discussing were not the cause of the state of affairs, but rather a reflection.
Suicide songs and slasher movies during the '80s were not what were causing the murder, drug, dropout, and violence rates to rise.
They were describing the effed up world these old timers left us with, not the world we wanted.
Word
As long as drugs were available on the market, there were druggies. China Opium in the 7th century. in the 17 century, it was a much bigger problem.
@Knobcore This was in reply, to Willy's comment. Frank Zappa testified in front of congress, in reply to Tipper Gore's (All Gore's Wife), attempts to censor more. Tipper blamed the songs for drug use, violence, and suicide. We did not mention Frank Zappa, but the subject on which the hearings were about.
@Knobcore all drugs should be leagle, addicted people would be better off ,cotrol use were its coming from ,tax it ,stop urine testing only test people using on the job what they do with the money they earn is their business not the employer ,your leagle to come to a jobsite on methodone,suboxan while a person smoked a little weed a week ago is fired and put on a black list
And in so doing, they were criticizing the end result they helped create. Interesting.
"Women are always the victim"
Flashes back to sonny coreleone getting shot over 50 times
This and Tipper's initial comment on pornography as routinely depicting rape to the point of viewers being desensitized to actual rape victims struck me. I am not an expert on 70s and 80s pornography, but I dont think I'm jumping the gun to say that this wasnt the "average" porn viewers had access to in the Restricted section of rental stores.
Siskel was right to note that the slasher/horror movies discussed by him and Tipper are not "Friday the 13th" fare. Even today there's a perception that this was the level of film Tipper Gore was objecting to (a perception that came from the number of "concerned mother" groups in the 80s and her association simply by being a woman asking for regulation at the same time and with a lot of the same language/research used).
Austin Shelton The Godfather came out 15 years before this interview, so thats not even relevant to what they were talking about. Also, in slashers and splatters (what they were talking about), I think it's pretty irrefutable that women are far more the victim than men. It's something that's built into the core of the genre. Even Giallo was constantly criticized for that. Anyway, Tipper Gore is a complete tool, and her entire system leaned Fascist. I don't support her at all, but she was right at the time when she said women are always the victim (in slashers and splatter films)
@@imgoodbye9252 women are generally the hero/survivor in slasher films even from that era. Generally men and women who weren't the protagonists died.
@@Money_Schacht ok, even if that were predominantly true, which can't really be proven, there's still more women who die who aren't the protagonist generally.
@@imgoodbye9252 possibly, but a woman is generally ALWAYS a survivor.
Tipper Gore, the queen of parents who shelter their kids.
The lady who would rather hide the real world from you, rather than educate you or prepare you for it.
Very short sighted.
1987 Faces of Death is todays 11pm News
Gene Siskel called Frank a cultural leader. They really valued his input.
Can anybody imagine Zappa still being alive today and having to witness all of what´s happening right now? OMG.
Yeah, Zappa, Hitchens, Bill Hicks.
He'd have said "Oh, business as usual; the GOP runs an obnoxious fascist idiot, the Dems run a candidate that is basically a GOP candidate that smiles more."
@@crankystinkleton4284 nah, he hated Dems too... So it wouldn't have been "a basically GOP" candidate, it would have been a typical large government Democrat. Both parties are authoritarian on either side of the political graph. Zappa was a free market capitalist and right-wing libertarian.
@@Money_Schacht Can you imagine how much he would have hated Trump, though? 😂
@@thomasc.4637 Probably about as much as he would have hated every other politician we've had since his time. Simply being conservative isn't an endorsement of Trump.
Funny how these were the problems we thought we had back in 1987. Compared to what we witness now in 2022 I'd gladly return to this kind of trouble in a heartbeat.
It's called regression. The country peaked 70 years ago. The country has been on a progressive decline to our eventual collapse.
@@garthornspike3648 Fetishizing the Fifties? It's called repression.
@@thetortureneverstops Unable to face reality? It's called delusional.
We’ve gotten both better and worse over the years. Only demons deal in absolutes.
@@DoomKid Only delusional twits refuse to admit reality.
"Obviously" ---says the anchor.....showing your bias right out of the gate.
Bingo
This is why it's important to have a parent that understands how to sneak in this stuff as a way to make your kid feel like they're growing up.
Start with Alien and the Thing and work from there. Some of my favorite memories with my dad was him taking me to see a movie "most parents wouldn't approve of" and I remember thinking it was so cool my dad thought I wasn't just a little kid anymore.
That type of stuff builds confidence and actually lends weight to a disaproval of something.
Absolutely right. Here in the UK my father somehow managed to sneak me into the cinema to see Jaws when I was just eight (to this day I don't know how he managed that). This was the third time he himself had seen it, so he knew everything that was coming. I remember him laughing out loud when I nearly jumped out of my seat at the jumpscare when the head rolls out of the bottom of the boat. It was a strong bonding experience; he learned that even at that young age I was mature enough to watch a scary film without being traumatised (it's still one of my favourite films) and although I was too young to know it at the time I later realised that my father (then 38) was an astute enough judge of character to know that we were going to have a good time. 🦈
my dad showed me texas chain saw 1 when i was maybe 9 and now squeeky screen doors are a staple for horror noises for me
The quality of remote video conferencing is amazing here. Why is it not like this these days?
They used to be via satellite, they now use ISDN and broadband internet.
The only song Tipper slapped a sticker on was "G-Spot Tornado", an instrumental.
Must have hit a nerve 😂
I was today years old when I found that out.
That song title reminded her of her own "inner self". Tipper is a kinky, naughty girl.
"Sadistic sexual savage scenes." She sounds like she's narrating a 50s bad girl film.
And what does Siskel mean, it wouldn't go on network tv. It might not here, but in Mexico, for example, they show the very types of things he's talking about. Which makes me think how super white the US was in the 80s, when ultimately what the elite in the US was trying to protect us from was effects of the things they caused, as is pointed out below. So they commit the deeds and they have results, even on those they want to hide it from. So I can see how the warning labels could have been the ultimate backfire, if they were marketed as "we don't want you to see the damage we caused." Because the artists the PMRC rallied against didn't create their art in a vacuum. It had to come from somewhere.
Tipper would be clutching her Karen pearls in 2021
'Karen pearls'
sweet.
'Karen Pearls' - now that's a sitcom character name if ever I heard one.
Love how Frank's question in answering the first was ducked lol
Looking at this in 2020. We live in a fear society now. Wish we had a Zappa rn
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The son of former Vice President Al Gore was charged Friday with speeding and illegal possession of marijuana and prescription drugs, according to the Orange County District Attorney's Office. Al and Tipper Gore with their son, Al Gore III, who faces several drug charges.Jul 20, 2007
Al and Tipper later divorced
"Family values". What a corrupt waste of taxpayers money salaries to these people where. I don't personally think divorce is wrong but these puritans did.
where is our 2021 Zappa - we need you!!
Zappa would not be appreciated at all by this society we have now unfortunately.
@Monotech2.0 Drugs have much to do with upbringing yes. They probably did never say anything about divorce being bad but no one says it's good. It's better imo opinion to divorce if a marriage cause more pain and suffering than joy but it is generally not a happy thing, only better than than the alternative. People divorce because of conflicts and incompatibility etc, and more often than not the conflicts between parents have a bad effect on any children they may have.
Or we could be the Zappa
“Sadistic sexual savage scenes.” Nice quadruple alliteration there, Tipp!
And you know as soon as she said that, most of the kids watching went "wow, I need to see that as soon as possible!"
@@terrypussypower that right there is the point
THANKS FOR SHARING! Never seen this one!!
_"...At Tipper's Inquisition Breakfast...."_
_"....where she stole the margarine"_
In hindsight PMRC ratings were great for the music industry. Nothing says ‘BUY ME!’ like an “Explicit Lyrics” label.
lmao tipper gore legit said sexual pornography, what is non sexual pornography
Zappa is the kind of guy we could really use nowadays with cancel culture and everything going on nowadays. And he'd have a field day with those lunatics.
I Spit On Your Grave is rough but it is meant to be. It is a anti rape film and it's meant to shock you. I watched that movie at 15, and it was impactful. Saying that it is a bad movie is just wrong.
If every rapist got punished like the ones in the movie did, there would be many less instances of rape.
What we see in art in any of it's forms is a direct result, the symptom of the over-all issue/problem. It's not the other way around. John Denver in his testimony at the PMRC hearing really explained this in detail and quite eloquently.
I’m willing to wager that Mr. Zappa was a good Chess Player...
He was from a military family.
@@evilsheep2197 you think that makes someone good at chess 🤣😂🤣
I don’t think he had time. The man was a workhorse.
@@evilsheep2197 ??
@@evilsheep2197 Many of them were “army brats” . I’m sure you know. That May be why it was called a Revaluation. Also, Steven Stills would perform in military style clothing...
The "explicit content" label always made me immediately more likely to consume the media in some capacity.
I remember watching this when I was a kid - I couldn't believe how five years later, the Gores would portray themselves as social liberals, hanging out at Grateful Dead shows, while on the campaign trail with Clinton.
Hypocrites.
frank zappa was a great human being.
What an amazingly eloquent and patient way of being in a show like this that you know is fabricated to hold everything and anything against you and your arguments. The precision of his answers is great. Very intelligent guy! I think we tend to forget that making music can be a very difficult intellectual and spiritual endeavor from which you learn a lot, like patience, for example. And I think he touches upon the actual fundamental problems that no one seems to get in this debate.
How asinine with this rise of the internet imminent... oh boy...
The RIAA rating system has been a colossal failure because the people in charge always listened more carefully to rap and metal cds than they did to, say, soft alternative. Sarah McLachlan, of all people, dropped an f-bomb on her biggest hit, but her album did not get the sticker. Neither did releases from about the same time by Sheryl Crow and the Indigo Girls which featured similar language, because their music was not metal or rap. Did they just assume a 12 year old just wasn't going to be interested in a Sarah McLachlan cd? I was 12 in 1973 and bought Paul Simon records, so you can't make that assumption. The truth was, though, if your music was believed to be aimed at an "older audience" , your lyric content apparently didn't get screened by the RIAA. But if you were rap, metal, or even "teen pop", it was put through a fine tooth comb.
Donny Osmond of all people made this point on a talk show around this time. He said he could put out a song about someone contemplating suicide and no one would mind but of Ozzy did it they would freak out.
The amount of conflation in this. Cripes! it's impossible to debate Zappa because his viewpoint is so different, it doesn't fit into societal construct norms of morality . It''s nearly like he takes a child's unbiased view of issues and asks obvious questions and gives straight answers that conventional indoctrinated wisdom finds hard to counter. if only we had more of the people that make the big decisions with this mindset.
Tipper Gore trying to unlock an achievement for highest alliteration combo with "sadistic sexual savage scenes"
I love how Zappa doesn't give a shit. It's like he doesn't even care to outdo Gore, he quite essentially is there _because why not_.
just imagine what Tiper gore would say if she ever watched 'The Devils', by Ken Russel, made in 1971 and fortbidden even in its home country
He put her in her place! I watched this live and loved it!
Is it ironic that her last name is Gore? Lol.
I keep thinking why was she named after a piece of equipment? Tipper is a strange name for a girl lol.
not anymore
The only reason you rented Faces of Death was because you couldn't believe it could be real, and it was a badge of honor to say you'd seen it, even if you didn't. If you were watching it for other reasons, most likely you were already a psychopath and it didn't "turn you" into one.
Spot on.
Oh, fucking please, that shit was fake as fuck, if you can't discern reality from fiction maybe you should stick to Disney films, but they can be Horrendous, necrophilia, infantcide, self mutilation. All in all you might want to stick with Mr.Rogers
@@toddcox5406 Shut up, bitch.
@Kitchner LMAO😂👍
The problem is Tipper Gore, as a billionaire she had too much free time and considered herself capable of distinguishing a work of art from trash. And that's not so easy.
Using data that indicates increased levels of aggression after viewing violent material to make a social point is such a fallacy. It plays upon our tendency to equate aggression with violence, even more so when we're already talking about violence and thus primed to conflate the two. What people like Tipper Gore are ignorant of or conveniently omit is the nature of the aggression. Aggression is not the same thing as violence. Is aggressive driving violent driving? If you're aggressively pursuing a goal, are you doing so with violence? In common conversation, we might use the two words interchangeably at times, but terms used in research are very purposefully chosen and defined in the introduction section to eliminate any misinterpretation. If a paper doesn't clearly define a key term, then it will cite a study or test which does, and you can just look at the cited literature. But unless a study says that aggression=violence or that when the word "aggression" is spoken of within the study, the authors are also including violence, then it is incorrect to treat the terms as synonymous. Moreover, Tipper Gore commits something of deadly sin in research by staying that correlation implies causation. If watching violent material is correlated with or associated with increased aggression, it does not even mean that viewing violent material causes increased aggression let alone causing violent behavior. Again, research is very specific with its language. Association, correlation, and causation are all different things, and it's ignorant at best, unethical at worst to take a word like "association" and then use it outside the context of research when speaking to people who aren't versed in research writing. That ensures people will assume a casual relationship.
Isn't the bit about kids watching violence on TV and and becoming aggressive the bit where the parents are supposed to step in and say, "You're not watching that", before it becomes a problem?
I used to watch horror movies with my mum when I was a kid - Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, that kind of thing. Then one day we put on Hellraiser. I think we got as far as the bit where the box opens and tears the guy's skin off when Mum turned it off and said 'nah, we're not watching this'. I was disappointed at the time, but when I watched the whole film as an adult I totally understood why she turned it off - a sadomasochistic fantasy horror is not the sort of thing I'd want to watch with my 13-year-old son either! I suppose I was just lucky for having intelligent parents who understood a. the nature of the film's themes, and b. the boundaries of their child's imagination.
She’s so obviously reading, franks so obviously a million miles ahead.
God she was so out of her depth... she had "studies" - but she made the mistake of thinking artists were brainless idiots... Still, her little advisory label sold more copies of music than record companies could have imagined...
Frank Zappa considered running for president. Im not even kidding to say he would have actually done a good job. Better than most on either side of the fence TBH. Smarter than all of them.
he probably would have died for some reason, I wouldnt see Frank playing the game the way they like it to be played.
"x rated society"
What would she think now?
XXX but Y?
Debating back then was respectable between both parties, nowadays a mediator is required when debates get too loud, vulger, and off topic. Considering the content that is being debated, it's surprising to me how respectful they all are, even if they're on television vs the modern debaters who exist exclusively on the internet and can say virtually whatever comes to mind.
Am I the only one who finds it weird that NO ONE has mentioned that Gene Siskel is in this segment?
If you watch closely you see Siskel smile in approval when Zappa responds. He plays the straight man to Zappa but he is really on Zappa’s side.
I'm forever in debt to Tipper Gore. Because of her I knew that "Parental Advisory" meant "BUY THIS ONE!" when I was 13. Nobody stopped me in the late 80's.
Those "Faces Of Death" films are tame compared to the "Documenting Reality" or "Bestgore" websites. You want to see what REALLY goes on in the world, they're a sickening eye opener. Those are no joke. You definitely want to keep your kids away from them.
Tipper, it comes down to this: "I have a stick up my butt, that gives me the right to tell you what to watch and listen to."
Absolutely legend
Don’t forget that Zappa fired someone for drug use
Zappa was notoriously anti-drug. Except tobacco, which he considered a vegetable.
He was pretty conservative, but he was about individual freedom and choice, unlike the far right conservatives…
@@ThatGuyThanus why the fuck did you bring politics into this
@@rockets4kids he smoked weed like once a year
@@user-cs6up8eq7s Here's a quote from an interview he gave Rolling Stone in 1988: "I've smoked ten marijuana cigarettes in my life, and probably the last time I had one near my face was twelve, fifteen years ago. And the reason I did was because, since I do smoke, people would say, "Here, smoke this, you'll get high." So I smoked it, and it gave me a sore throat and made me sleepy. And I must either presume that that's what high means, or something was wrong. But I've never had a positive result from smoking marijuana. It just wasn't my cup of tea. And I never used LSD, never used cocaine, never used heroin or any of that other stuff."
It is insulting in a sense. On one hand we have a clueless fanatic who would be totally unknown if not of her husband being a politician. On the other hand we have one of the greatest artists of all time. And definitely one of the most productive..I remember these days even though i lived far far away from USA.
Midnight cowboy was rated X when it won a academy award
Ratings are merely convenient handle that can be used to sort the content. People looking for that content will use it to more easily find what they want at least as often as other people will use it to avoid the same content.
Well Tipper, what about young kids watching commercials for Budweiser 24/7 ? Alcoholism is deadly; Frankie Goes to Hollywood is simply amusing.
Damn, I miss that man. Kudos, Frank.
Wow i really wish political discourse was still this civil and well informed
Nobody raising their voice, speakers from all sides rarely talking over each other
Al please control your wife.
Ah yes, the ancient battle of control versus freedom.
One movie theater in Philadelphia, in 1990, was showing Texas Chainsaw Massacre 3. I was 20 and I took my younger brother who was 14. I had ID with me. The theater person asked for identification from me since I was bringing in someone "underage".
So I think I learned from a man who is a "film critic" who calls I Spit On Your Grave his "worst" movie, in 1987 well after Cannibal Holocaust came out, and a woman who is married to a man who thinks he invented the internet that the Roman Coliseum did not exist nor did public executions where people came with their families to witness.
Tipper was a wild cat in the sack.
Frank would be horrified if he knew people with heartfelt personal opinions were being censored and cancelled.
He was a man who foreseen the dangers of silencing voices and someone way ahead of his time with seasoned logic and common sense.
We need more like him.
It all became a moot point now that you can download anything at any time on the internet.
Zappa was man of the year back then, he is now as well
And now theres the internet
Considering the times now.... They're both right.... This is so hard to comprehend lol
In the summer of 87 I was 21 about to turn 22 in September & had seen Faces of Death & others like it & so far didn't turn me into a killer or some weirdo that just wants to see more, And I was against the P.M.R.C back then but now that I'm older I don't have a problem with properly labeling a product more so that the parents of minors can make a decision . While the child's a minor it is the job of parents to actually be good parents not like your friends that just say anything goes.
Man, this discussion sounds old.
There are warning labels on things for stupid people. Read the synopsis on the back of the book / movie/ album before you let them partake, and raise your damned kids with an interest
Right on, the warning labels are ridiculous, "don't insert bottle-rocket into rectum" "don't ingest ethelene-glycole",they might as well say" pull your head out of your rectom lest you suffocate!!!
Zappa predicted in an other interview about mental health, that ill mental health will be one of the biggest problems in USA. Here he even says that the mental health issue and consumerism actually provides a market for this kind of content.
It's interesting how true it is how badly US mental health problems have exponentionally grown. Just think about all the school shootings that occurs now on a regular basis, that little lids have to drill for the case a school shooting would happen. That's extremely traumatic for itself for kid and parents.
The non existent general health care and the war on drugs and criminal private prison businesses has even become a perverted system to feed the vicious cycle. As long as mental and general health are of the people are both taken care of and reserved only for the rich, USA and the capitalism explotation system will fall. It actually already has begun more than 30 years ago. The corruption is ghastly inhumane and destructive for entire human civilizations.
Let me settle this debate once and for all.
What is worse than a crucifixion?
Anyone who takes lyrics from songs seriously including young kids shouldn't be allowed out anyway!
What's Blockbuster?
It's a hit song by a group called "The Sweet"! It's a real groovy little number!
@@terrypussypower I love Sweet! They had so many great songs. I love their TotP performances.
Frank Zappa hitting the nail on the head with the mental health comment.
i wonder what Tipper or Gene would think of Hostel or the Human Centipede films ?! their heads would explode!
Tipper is it media that is responsible for adolescence or peoples behavior.... or is it the parents responsibility to teach and talk about the can be difficult at times.....world we live in
I would like to have seen a reaction by Tipper or Frank on the fact what 7 year olds can see since the coming of internet , faces of death looks like a Benny Hill episode compared to today
I am now inspired to write a song about tipper gore lol
There was also a horror anthology comic book called Tipper Gore's Comics and Stories that had one cover by Guns N' Roses album cover artist Robert Williams =
Blackie Lawless already did that back then. It is titled " Harder Faster, and he dedicated it to Tipper Gore, right after he sued her.
The PMRC remind me of all the language policing going on currently
Heck I love Rock and Metal grew up Christian but more open minded I don't judge others or call others out on what they believe my dad would not let me watch or listen to things at a young age unless he thought I could handle it if there was a explicit song playing he would change it and he would slowly introduce me to more good music as I got older I turned out fine write songs about violent times in America history that have shaped our country in the USA Dee Frank and John are so right its the parents responsibility now days we have parents that don't give a shit what their young kids do and those kids either end up addicted to drugs dead or in jail
I thought guns were more destructive!
But try talking about that to politicians.
F the PMRC!
Sorry everyone. This video gives me flashbacks.
It's never too early, or too late, to listen to the music of WHO?! WHOOOO?! Please tell me!!!
Does anyone find it ironic that someone with the last name Gore is all about censoring horror films and music with curse words in it?
The last frontier ?