I've always said this about Peterson and Nietzsche! The way Jordan bastardizes Nietzsche's philosophy for his own Christian apologetics is really the epitome of intellectual dishonesty
@@TheRollmopsi there are many universities, with many philosophy professors, and many ways to interpret, so to say that "the way universities read Nietzsche is wrong" is already a ridiculous statement
@@TheRollmopsiThere are many readings of Nietzsche but Jordan Peterson's is obviously wrong, he only quotes Nietzsche where he seems to compliment his own philosophy
@@yaloluyanda791 i agree he often obfuscates Nietzsches ideas but I would push back here a little bit to say that to a certain degree you have to do that because N was so contradictory.. Peterson certainly doesnt get everything wrong
I kind of feel like all of the reactionary weirdos who love to reference Nietzsche (despite obviously never reading his work) Nietzsche himself would think are the most pathetic bug-men on the planet.
@@TheRollmopsi and why are ye a leftist? The experience of humanity has long-shown us that leftism would never be able to solve our problems, nor salvate us by helping us find truth, meaning and significance
Have _you_ actually read Nietzsche? _I kind of feel like_ you've regurgitated a 2nd hand opinion. Don't kid yourself; both reactionary _and_ radical weirdos rely on 2nd hand opinions _of 2nd hand opinions_ of Nietzsche's works.
disregard that. it's been done. and folks are just now getting back to the place where we can talk about being surrounded by neo nazis, quietly. anything else risks further ignition.
@@alwaysright3943 unless it was meant rhetorically for a wave of up sparkling jazz hands behind my back.. obviously not always. But it is red meat. And a asian carpenter told me maybe just let it go. I abided by it for the most part. But fans, or unwitting fans by virtue of being alt-right, sometimes need to face some push back to allow minorities space to live. Any questions specifically about contemporary weirdos, sure over think it. The cats and birds are might not necessarily notice it. Have you ever seen a pigeon eating hotdog?
Ye cannot have a right to do that. Whether ye believe in a religion or not, ye just have to acept that the term religion and it's associations are at the very center of the civilization and cvlture, if not it's the most central element....
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Geniusand by religion we mean Christianity!. And by Christianity we mean this one weird recent branch that goes against everything Christ taught, teaching young ppl to be bigots and the ones that don't conform and fall in line or whose identities we don't accept we accuse of demon possession. Suffer the little children indeed.
But why though? Even if we do not agree with him, he is a dedicated intellectual in the end... But of course he is not near Žižek in knowledgable-ity and cvltural-ness and horizon-seeing and in originality of thought.
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Genius He isn't near Žižek in his knowledge of German philosophy, but is Žižek near Peterson's knowledge of Psychology? I mean philosophy is not his field.
@@Will140f So does Žižek, so do the hosts of this podcast--I would consider it a positive trait. And Peterson is consistently relating those other areas of study back to psychology.
I think Schopenhauer would be totally prepared: "...while among polygamous peoples every woman gets taken care of, among the monogamous the number of married women is limited and there remains over a quantity of unsupported women who in the upper classes vegetate on as old maids, and in the lower classes are obliged to undertake laborious work for which they are constitutionally unfit."
hi doc ellie -- funny short! i have a request -- could you do lecture on plotinus and neo or late platoism for us? and how it's ideas extend to our life today and of course to later philosophy? gracias!
I think she prefers to make an agenda based on modernity and afterwards' philosophers. She doesn't even do Middle Era philosophers such as Roger Bacon, St. Augustine, Muslim philosophers such as Avicenna, Averroes, Farabi, İbn-i Arabî etc...
Loved this video. 😂😂😂 I'm definitely Nietzsche, then. Edit: oh, god, I'm like Hegel and Kierkegaard too. 😢 Great video idea! A brilliant way of bringing classic philosophy intimately close to modern days.
ok then doc ellie no doubt you are well aware of a.i. so maybe you could do at least a short if not longer on a.i. philosophy. yes people have already been using a.i. to generate philisophical responses and besides gibberish and regurgitating apparantly ‘it’ is also coming up with new ideas, so i would be interested in your take on this and where it might go.
Now I’m picturing megachurches with a trampoline feature called “Leap of Faith” and selling t shirts with an American flag wrapped around a buff “Knight of Faith”.
And so can't I. I mean, it may be because Hegel always wants people to do very significant and meaningful and full of spirit things and tiktok is what we have now that is one of the most useless and spirit-less and meaningless things we ever have, if not the most meaningless and worthless one...
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Geniussome people are on the same level as children, unless you want to fight a child, just let it go. unless you're cornered, then whatever happens happens.
I think the Hegel and tiktok correlation is somewhat related to his idealism and the collective spirit, like how Hegel said reality is a collective spirit of culture and stuff , tik tok is like that , where everyone can participate and see each other's conscious thoughts and perform is in collective ideas
So, Kierkegaard might appreciate a distinction between prosperity gospel and megachurches in general, the latter being per se a technologically enabled reaction to mass alienation and consumerist choice maximalism. Also, Jordan Peterson is just a sophist, complete with a writing training program (rhetoric lessons) and ancient wisdom reiteration behind ads and subscription payments (though payment form evolves to be adverts after sufficient time). You can't have Socrates without the Sophists and if y'all philosophers want to collectively be Plato in your rejection of JBP he'd appreciate that I'm sure.
In some epistemic sense, this might be true. But I think most of us are missing the point. There were biblical scholars who mocked Jesus’ teaching for its simplicity and the lack of originality. But was it because Jesus himself didn’t understand the bible? Focusing on such questions leads me to believe the inquirer is missing the bigger picture. The more important point seems to be - what was his mission? Memorizing every word of the sacred text or drawing people to it? Not only is it useful to gauge a scholar’s impact from theoretical and epistemic perspectives, but it is also important to assess the work in its prevalent cultural context. Peterson could’ve had continued his teaching at Harvard and chipped away the minutest sliver of human knowledge. But I think he’s spending his time wisely - encouraging people. IMO, that is more valuable than trying to understand what particular terms meant to historical figures in some obscure corners of ivory towers.
I don’t think the Nietzsche-Peterson one is that simple. Nietzsche greatly admired Dostoyevsky, and Peterson and Dostoyevsky’s thinking runs, largely, in parallel. Caveats: Nietzsche only read Notes from Underground, and Nietzsche wasn’t as much of Christian sympathizer, if at all, as Peterson and Dostoyevsky.
Spot on . Especially with Da-Kierkegaard-Man. Do you know how many Friggin times a Brotha like me had to get outside myself to check out myself Checking out myself to halfway get what this Mo-Fo was saying? Only to have you explain in 20 minutes that it was, “Nothin-Butta-Free-Thang-BABY!” (AsSnoop-Dogg might say it.) Dang Gurl, Yo Brilliance IS Brilliant!
Marx's mother's family were rich textile merchants, his father was a lawyer but had business concerns of his own, owning vineyards; his famous collaborator, Engels, inherited Factories in England; his wife was an aristocrat.
@@ЯмбаДула Is it a secret? Why can't you just say? Marx grew up in a middle class family, his father owned a bunch of vineyards, his mother was descended from a famous Dutch trading family, his wife was an aristocrat, Engles was an industrialist after inheriting his father’s factories--surely he'd have been in a coma since birth?
@@Christian___ It's not a secret, which is why you should read his work. Which you can find anywhere and are not kept in a secret drawer in the vatican library. Hope that helps
ive consulted the internet, the megachurch is a simmilar concept to the baroque churches…scale. Although americans are fucking stupid and dont understand that religion is supposed to help you with YOUR journey, you use the church as a justification for condemnation of people you dont agree with. Not to mention that most religions benefit from being very old and having a mitology-esque standpoint, on the contrary the latter day saints church was created only 200 years ago and we know a lot about joseph smith, the fact that he was baisically a con-man involved with selling „magic stones”. 😂😂😂
i have a strong affinity for Neitzsche. We've stayed in close touch over history. I've always found his nervous excitability and reactionary ire superbly amusing. i think youre spot on with these. We differ in style do i and Freddy a little. Jordan Peterson makes Me want to put Jordan Peterson into a coma ; D
JP relies on God for meaning, kinda the opposite of what Nietzsche talked about esp. In the concept of the Ubermensch, to Nietzsche, Peterson style ideology would be beyond pathetic
@@mohammadaminsarabi6207 Nietzsche, at least on one (I think valid) reading, was a bit of a proto-post-strukturalist: he emphasised value creation over the idea that values are eternal. JP, as we all know, is in favour of the latter. Moreover, Nietzsche was explicit about his hate towards conservatives and christian morals. Again, in contrast to JP.
Nietzsche perceives Christianity as a life denying degenerative force motivating people to deny life for an external dictated premade meaning. Peterson’s excited call for such self limitations partially in Nietzsche’s own name would doubtlessly at least activate his migraines. While both Nietzsche and Peterson oppose equality as a value, Nietzsche opposes it because he deems it life denying and limiting upon the capacities of humanity. Peterson argues against equality as a value because it messes with mass adherence to his favoured hierarchy, which Nietzsche would see as a meaningless opposition between a life denier and a life denier. There are other discrepancies but I think this is a decent base for the gaps between those two.
Kierkegaard and megachurches really got me 😂
Even Jesus won't agree with the megachurches.
Same. It sounded the most accurate.
Yes same 😅
@@ea_naseer"Christianity is precisely what Christ came to abolish." ~Soren Kierkegaard
Marx: you are learning what?!
The efficient exploitation of the proletariat 😅
@@titusoconnor7755business schools isn't just "how to be multi millionaire ceo" lol. I'm pretty sure they teach you managerial roles
Read that in Tony Soprano's accent lmao
@@Daniel-ih4zh yeah, exactly
Schelling - A.I. Art
Why?
Adorno - Hyperpop
As a Hegelian Marxist I can confirm that both TikTok and business schools send me into a coma on the regular.
And yet, here you are. Marxism breeds hypocrisy like nothing I've seen.
Welcome to postmodern dialectical materialism; it was always waiting here.
Get well soon
I've always said this about Peterson and Nietzsche! The way Jordan bastardizes Nietzsche's philosophy for his own Christian apologetics is really the epitome of intellectual dishonesty
thats not true. the reading of nietzsche in universities is really wrong in many ways aswell. atleast it is not so clear how to read him correctly
@@TheRollmopsi there are many universities, with many philosophy professors, and many ways to interpret, so to say that "the way universities read Nietzsche is wrong" is already a ridiculous statement
@@TheRollmopsiThere are many readings of Nietzsche but Jordan Peterson's is obviously wrong, he only quotes Nietzsche where he seems to compliment his own philosophy
@@yaloluyanda791 i agree he often obfuscates Nietzsches ideas but I would push back here a little bit to say that to a certain degree you have to do that because N was so contradictory.. Peterson certainly doesnt get everything wrong
@@TheRollmopsi one thing is clear, Nietzsche had no sympathy for Christianity
I kind of feel like all of the reactionary weirdos who love to reference Nietzsche (despite obviously never reading his work) Nietzsche himself would think are the most pathetic bug-men on the planet.
Yes, he would consider them to be small men and wish they would die sooner
@@TheRollmopsi and why are ye a leftist? The experience of humanity has long-shown us that leftism would never be able to solve our problems, nor salvate us by helping us find truth, meaning and significance
Have _you_ actually read Nietzsche?
_I kind of feel like_ you've regurgitated a 2nd hand opinion.
Don't kid yourself; both reactionary _and_ radical weirdos rely on 2nd hand opinions _of 2nd hand opinions_ of Nietzsche's works.
@@clayerkwiltee2315 yohohohho, though he never claimed to have read Nietzsche.
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Genius Ya got me. You ought to go to law school.
By God, you've got boat loads of potential!!!
Hegel himself would (or better yet, maybe DID) send Schopenhauer into a coma.
That's a fact...
@@Christian___ yohohohhohohoho, right??
things that would send Wittgenstein into coma: contemporary analytic philosophers
He would just give 'em that stare
I want a full video take from you on Jordan Peterson
I think the internet needs that
disregard that. it's been done. and folks are just now getting back to the place where we can talk about being surrounded by neo nazis, quietly. anything else risks further ignition.
Do you?
@@alwaysright3943 unless it was meant rhetorically for a wave of up sparkling jazz hands behind my back.. obviously not always. But it is red meat. And a asian carpenter told me maybe just let it go. I abided by it for the most part. But fans, or unwitting fans by virtue of being alt-right, sometimes need to face some push back to allow minorities space to live.
Any questions specifically about contemporary weirdos, sure over think it. The cats and birds are might not necessarily notice it. Have you ever seen a pigeon eating hotdog?
I think the less people talk about Peterson, the better. He is a leech that feeds of all attention, positive or otherwise.
I mean I too fall into a coma when I see Mega Churches.
Ye cannot have a right to do that. Whether ye believe in a religion or not, ye just have to acept that the term religion and it's associations are at the very center of the civilization and cvlture, if not it's the most central element....
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Geniusand by religion we mean Christianity!. And by Christianity we mean this one weird recent branch that goes against everything Christ taught, teaching young ppl to be bigots and the ones that don't conform and fall in line or whose identities we don't accept we accuse of demon possession.
Suffer the little children indeed.
Nietzsche would hate Peterson.
Jordon Peterson has sent me into a coma…..
But why though? Even if we do not agree with him, he is a dedicated intellectual in the end... But of course he is not near Žižek in knowledgable-ity and cvltural-ness and horizon-seeing and in originality of thought.
Man sent himself into a coma
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Genius He isn't near Žižek in his knowledge of German philosophy, but is Žižek near Peterson's knowledge of Psychology? I mean philosophy is not his field.
@@Christian___ he sure talks about philosophy a lot (and many other areas of study too) that are not his field
@@Will140f So does Žižek, so do the hosts of this podcast--I would consider it a positive trait. And Peterson is consistently relating those other areas of study back to psychology.
Do 20th century next ...
T. Adorno - youtube, streaming, image search
Why?
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Genius Adorno thought the reproduction of images made the original work of art lose its aura.
T. Adorno - Black music and culture
Britney Spears
Heidegger: Dubai
If there is a God, please let Jordan Peterson hear this. 😁
Yohohohoho... Btw, I assure ye, there is God.
There is God, therefore Jordan Peterson will hear this.
kierkegaard just had an aneurysm!
I think Schopenhauer would be totally prepared: "...while among polygamous peoples every woman gets taken care of, among the monogamous the number of married women is limited and there remains over a quantity of unsupported women who in the upper classes vegetate on as old maids, and in the lower classes are obliged to undertake laborious work for which they are constitutionally unfit."
I honestly think Marx would be more pissed off by the way Marxism is taught in academia now.
hi doc ellie -- funny short! i have a request -- could you do lecture on plotinus and neo or late platoism for us? and how it's ideas extend to our life today and of course to later philosophy? gracias!
I think she prefers to make an agenda based on modernity and afterwards' philosophers. She doesn't even do Middle Era philosophers such as Roger Bacon, St. Augustine, Muslim philosophers such as Avicenna, Averroes, Farabi, İbn-i Arabî etc...
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Genius so far!?
Loved this video. 😂😂😂 I'm definitely Nietzsche, then.
Edit: oh, god, I'm like Hegel and Kierkegaard too. 😢
Great video idea! A brilliant way of bringing classic philosophy intimately close to modern days.
ok then doc ellie no doubt you are well aware of a.i. so maybe you could do at least a short if not longer on a.i. philosophy. yes people have already been using a.i. to generate philisophical responses and besides gibberish and regurgitating apparantly ‘it’ is also coming up with new ideas, so i would be interested in your take on this and where it might go.
Now I’m picturing megachurches with a trampoline feature called “Leap of Faith” and selling t shirts with an American flag wrapped around a buff “Knight of Faith”.
Guy Debord - Social Media
Nietzsche: Jordan Peterson, this line made my day
Damn this is accurate
I think memes about church aesthetics being equal to true religion would also send Kierkegaard into a coma
What would Comte’s coma entail? I could see him penning a long screed bemoaning the rise of goblin mode
Brilliant!
Why polyamoury for Schopenhauer?
Also Niesztche’s sister
Marx - the fortine battle pass
Naah, business schools
In regards to Marx, the things taught in business schools aren't much different than in his day.
ELLIE!!!! PROFESSOR!!! So true!!!
Was the Hegel one because of the master-servant dialectic? I can’t figure out what Hegel’s beef with tik tok is. Love you Channel also!!!
And so can't I. I mean, it may be because Hegel always wants people to do very significant and meaningful and full of spirit things and tiktok is what we have now that is one of the most useless and spirit-less and meaningless things we ever have, if not the most meaningless and worthless one...
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Geniussome people are on the same level as children, unless you want to fight a child, just let it go.
unless you're cornered, then whatever happens happens.
It would send them into a coma and send popping pop corn.
What are your thoughts on JP?
I think the Hegel and tiktok correlation is somewhat related to his idealism and the collective spirit, like how Hegel said reality is a collective spirit of culture and stuff , tik tok is like that , where everyone can participate and see each other's conscious thoughts and perform is in collective ideas
Brilliant
So, Kierkegaard might appreciate a distinction between prosperity gospel and megachurches in general, the latter being per se a technologically enabled reaction to mass alienation and consumerist choice maximalism. Also, Jordan Peterson is just a sophist, complete with a writing training program (rhetoric lessons) and ancient wisdom reiteration behind ads and subscription payments (though payment form evolves to be adverts after sufficient time). You can't have Socrates without the Sophists and if y'all philosophers want to collectively be Plato in your rejection of JBP he'd appreciate that I'm sure.
Perhaps Hegel and Tik Tok because of the superficiality.
All would send all... except maybe hegel
.......WORD!!!! 🤘😔
In some epistemic sense, this might be true. But I think most of us are missing the point. There were biblical scholars who mocked Jesus’ teaching for its simplicity and the lack of originality. But was it because Jesus himself didn’t understand the bible? Focusing on such questions leads me to believe the inquirer is missing the bigger picture. The more important point seems to be - what was his mission? Memorizing every word of the sacred text or drawing people to it? Not only is it useful to gauge a scholar’s impact from theoretical and epistemic perspectives, but it is also important to assess the work in its prevalent cultural context. Peterson could’ve had continued his teaching at Harvard and chipped away the minutest sliver of human knowledge. But I think he’s spending his time wisely - encouraging people. IMO, that is more valuable than trying to understand what particular terms meant to historical figures in some obscure corners of ivory towers.
😂 Peterson simps are hilariously pathetic.
İn the past, what ivory tower thinkers thought were folk's thoughts and practices as well.
Spot on and well said.
Out of obscurity and into practicality
I don’t think the Nietzsche-Peterson one is that simple. Nietzsche greatly admired Dostoyevsky, and Peterson and Dostoyevsky’s thinking runs, largely, in parallel.
Caveats: Nietzsche only read Notes from Underground, and Nietzsche wasn’t as much of Christian sympathizer, if at all, as Peterson and Dostoyevsky.
well, it’s a dichotomy to say jp vs nietzsche, so it has to be wrong in many aspects.
Spot on . Especially with Da-Kierkegaard-Man. Do you know how many Friggin times a Brotha like me had to get outside myself to check out myself Checking out myself to halfway get what this Mo-Fo was saying? Only to have you explain in 20 minutes that it was, “Nothin-Butta-Free-Thang-BABY!” (AsSnoop-Dogg might say it.) Dang Gurl, Yo Brilliance IS Brilliant!
😂😂Jordan Peterson hahaha
haha, good one :)
Marx's mother's family were rich textile merchants, his father was a lawyer but had business concerns of his own, owning vineyards; his famous collaborator, Engels, inherited Factories in England; his wife was an aristocrat.
So...?
@@maksim_tak So why would business schools send him into a coma?
Maybe you should read some of Marx's work to find out
@@ЯмбаДула Is it a secret? Why can't you just say? Marx grew up in a middle class family, his father owned a bunch of vineyards, his mother was descended from a famous Dutch trading family, his wife was an aristocrat, Engles was an industrialist after inheriting his father’s factories--surely he'd have been in a coma since birth?
@@Christian___ It's not a secret, which is why you should read his work. Which you can find anywhere and are not kept in a secret drawer in the vatican library. Hope that helps
Hegel and tik tok😂
Could ye figure out the correlation?
What does Hegel has to do with tiktok
wtf is a megachurch
ive consulted the internet, the megachurch is a simmilar concept to the baroque churches…scale.
Although americans are fucking stupid and dont understand that religion is supposed to help you with YOUR journey, you use the church as a justification for condemnation of people you dont agree with.
Not to mention that most religions benefit from being very old and having a mitology-esque standpoint, on the contrary the latter day saints church was created only 200 years ago and we know a lot about joseph smith, the fact that he was baisically a con-man involved with selling „magic stones”. 😂😂😂
A really big church.
Marx -> crypto
maybe not
True😂
i have a strong affinity for Neitzsche. We've stayed in close touch over history. I've always found his nervous excitability and reactionary ire superbly amusing. i think youre spot on with these. We differ in style do i and Freddy a little. Jordan Peterson makes Me want to put Jordan Peterson into a coma ; D
Peterson quotes Nietzsche because he thinks he's a genius, not because he thinks Nietzsche would agree with him or his world view.
Like everybody else, he uses Nietzsche to make a point. Don't fall for this young woman's sophistry. Ps: your pronoun usage sucks.
Exactly this!
Everyone here thinks they're a genius who understands Nietzsche who probably never read him either
Didn’t realize there was so much hate for Jordan Peterson. Guess I’m on the wrong side of the internet 💀
Why Jordan Peterson? Friedrich Nietzsche it was not against religion or Christianity for the plebs
Why business schools?
People love to hate Peterson
Yep. Haters are gonna hate on those that they envy and do what they cannot
@@Flesh4Toast more like we hate people who don't have proper confrontation with philosophical texts but compensate it with ciceronian rhetoric
To be fair, only Peterson qualifies.
Why would Nietzsche not like Jordan Peterson? I can't see that?
Nietzsche never cleaned his room :)
JP relies on God for meaning, kinda the opposite of what Nietzsche talked about esp. In the concept of the Ubermensch, to Nietzsche, Peterson style ideology would be beyond pathetic
@@cthulhu8164 What's "style ideology"?
Thank you for explaining. Do you think however that a possible nexus between them is the drive to improve yourself though?@@cthulhu8164
@@geoffburton822 you're misreading. "Peterson style ideology" as in the ideas promoted by JP, like Christian moral objectivism.
Talk about your opinion on Peterson
no please don’t, this is such a dead horse
@@DugongClock why is that? He reveals the antidote to absurd nihilism that doesnt contribuite nothing to existence itself
@@ricardorauldiazserrano2175 yes, he’s copying off of Nietzsche while perverting his message. That is the joke in this short
@@DugongClock Dead horse is apt, beaten even!
@@glenncthomsonisn’t that story apocryphal ?
I kind of think Nietzsche and Jordan Peterson would get along well
you're not familiar with Nietzsche, then.
@@gustavttt4148you are familiar? Can you explain to me how?
I think JP would get along more with Richard Wagner :)
@@mohammadaminsarabi6207 Nietzsche, at least on one (I think valid) reading, was a bit of a proto-post-strukturalist: he emphasised value creation over the idea that values are eternal. JP, as we all know, is in favour of the latter.
Moreover, Nietzsche was explicit about his hate towards conservatives and christian morals. Again, in contrast to JP.
Nietzsche perceives Christianity as a life denying degenerative force motivating people to deny life for an external dictated premade meaning. Peterson’s excited call for such self limitations partially in Nietzsche’s own name would doubtlessly at least activate his migraines. While both Nietzsche and Peterson oppose equality as a value, Nietzsche opposes it because he deems it life denying and limiting upon the capacities of humanity. Peterson argues against equality as a value because it messes with mass adherence to his favoured hierarchy, which Nietzsche would see as a meaningless opposition between a life denier and a life denier. There are other discrepancies but I think this is a decent base for the gaps between those two.