I think you guys nailed it why GD brand is becoming synonymous for "Frame Flex" when almost every other manufacturer also has frame flex issues. The difference is how the manufacturer takes care of the customer. The bottom line is the Lippert frames are being built too light with inconsistent welds and metallurgy. In addition, RV manufacturing poor engineering and quality control in connecting the superstructure to the frame causing bad things to happen. I have a 2019 Montana by Keystone that had a frame flex issue where the wall was cracking in front of the East-West bedroom slide. The bottom welds on the aluminum wall studs broke due to frame flex (frame welds were fine). After a bit of back and forth between dealer and Keystone, they agreed to send it to a competent and experienced shop to fix it. Keep in mind, I was just outside the 3-year structural warranty and Keystone still agreed to pay for it all. GD is at a tipping point, it needs to step up for its customers or risk losing its name and future sales.
Yeah that's why i stopped watching Josh the nerd. He white washed it hard but by doing so he took his dealership with him. Big truck big RV is another channel i will not watch nor support his sponsors. Good thing i have i have The Thomas Register's to find the things that E Trailers carry without doing business with them. I started looking for a newer RV, well fifth wheel, as i plan on traveling in the next few years. I can say GD is permanently off my list.
Pete helped me out today in reaching out to the right person at GD to verify my dealer service is being responsive to GD in getting our Solitude structure repaired. We have a 2021 S-2930RL - the smallest one.
There has been a change there. They are starting to accept second owner builds and I suppose because many of us are making a big stink over this when it should be a recall.
The "2nd Owner" excuse has been an industry standard. Forest River gave me the same excuse on a trailer that the pinbox crossmembers sheared on the passenger side, and that was back in 2011.
@@Itsa_MeaAnd that is exactly what it is, an excuse. A means to not repair a manufacturer defect so that they don’t have to do a manufacturer recall, which is not the auto industry does. Why? Because they are regulated by the federal government.
@@WestsontheMove yup! But too much Govt involvement can also lead to even higher prices than what we are seeing now. The Govt. will cost them more money to produce RVs, and you know who will end up paying in the long run, The consumer. It's going to ve interesting for sure.
@@Itsa_Mea Then you have a choice whether you want to buy a safer RV than what is out there now. There is a reason for regulations and at times that is because of the loss of human life! Think about that for a minute. What if it was you or one of your family members that lost their life because there wasn't any regulation to hold a company accountable. Then yes you could sue them but that won't keep them from continuing to build something the same way. You decide!
Exactly. Just keep the people informed and be polite, it will go a long ways. People have patience if they are informed and the work gets done correctly
BAD welds are a Lippert issue. Lippert and GD needs to take ownership with these issues. Lippert NEEDS to due a better job on its welds…and I do have the IS AND a Reese Goose box.
Need a certified Navy welding inspector? From my observations, it's all about the welds, second is the formula for the steel and third, the process. I also understand there are witnesses of the process coming forward.
Just the reason I will not buy a fifth wheel I've seen many other brands having the same issues .every one needs to push the issue to get it correct with the manufacturer
Great video! Thanks Chris for discussing this. We just recently sold our GD 390RK to a wonderful couple and they are planning to go full time. We've had a great experience with GD customer service in the past and we have a video on that experience. However, we have heard a lot of experiences about frame failures and the customer service at GD being unprofessional. While we were not experiencing any frame failures during our ownership I do think GD MUST do a better job of helping their customers. If heaven forbit the couple that purchased our GD started having issues I would want to know that GD would take care of them. These types of videos are great and bring exposure to the issue. This in turn will do a lot to motivate GD to look into this deeper and also treat customers with respect! Keep up the good work.
Hey Gina, Jarrett, I've been trying to get educated as much as possible on what to look for. I'm going to look at the lag bolts as soon as I get a chance. I did notice some rippling of the decals but hitching up I haven't seen any deflection of the pin box. We are a little worried that GD won't service us if a problem arises. Just hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.
Hey guys! Yes it’s a shame I fell the company has changed. Got too big too quick, started pumping out units and quality went down hill along with customer service I think. So far we seem to be good on our rig as well showing no signs but it’s something I’ll be keeping an eye on for sure.
Weekend Warrior toy haulers had this issue back in the early 2000s. They just declared bankruptcy and screwed a lot of people out of a lot of money, leaving them with dealing with the problems themselves. I have one and it sucks.
Yeah that really blows. It seems like they are built to only be used a few times a year if that, anything more and they just start to fall apart. Appreciate you watching and commenting. 👍🏼
I am an RV tech and inspector. I wanted to understand what how to weld and what a proper weld looks like. So I took welding at a college and it included blueprint reading and metallurgy. After these and MIG TiG and other courses I have looked at welds in these trailers and even showed my instructors and they flat out said these would never pass in a place that has regulations. This was extremely disheartening as I love RVs and was sold on GD, and would promote them. Now when asked I tell them there is no manufacturing company that follows regulations. Also have your rig inspected
Crazy to think that and hear that from somebody experienced like yourself. But I believe it. It’s a shame the standard isn’t higher on these frames and welds. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏼
GD customer service told me I expected too much since I didn’t spend a million dollars. Many of us were fooled by the influencers who sang their praises from the rooftops. GD may have been a good company at one point but now they could care less about their customers. My family was lucky in one way. We couldn’t get a new truck at the time so we settled on an Imagine temporarily. We had 6 or more trips planned first year. Our imagine was in the dealer most of the first year for repairs. We had planned on upgrading to solitude or momentum when we purchased a new truck & built our new garage for whatever we chose. The garage is in the process & has many more government hurdles so it is expected to be better than anything the unregulated rv industry builds. I’m not buying anything based on the reviews from influencers. I will also pay for a third-party inspection new or used. The only thing this industry will understand is $$$$s lost.
I am not a Grand Design owner but am a large fifth wheel owner and I very much feel that all RVs do need to be regulated and meet government mandated safety standards. I'm an over the road truck driver and seeing the amount of rv accidents etc I pass is outrageous. Granted alot of them may be driver error. But break downs and equipment failure is alot of it as well
Great content, guys. I’m not an RV’r, but feel bad for those that are with these serious issues. I also watch Liz Amazing. RV lawyers are threatening her now just for exposing the industry problems. Good luck to everybody.
Thank you! Yes, they all need to have qualified structural engineers inspect each and every Lippert frame that comes in to the RV assembler factories. It appears tht they just accept anything and everything without a thorough inspection of welds and quality. Then this is what makes the RV assmblers liable for accepting these frames. Both are to blame! They are more concerned about quantity and not quality control. In a nutshell, this is how this is perceived after all.
alternatives to lippert frames and the many rv manufacturers who use them, will put GD, Limpit and Winnebunghole out of business. the frame failers have scared their buyers away... imho
Litigation doesn't help the RV owners as much as federal regulations to prevent this from ever happening again. There are literally no protections at all, for RV owners going down the road, let alone the build process. These rigs are required to have VINs and license plates so how come there is no regulation since they travel down U.S. roadways? Because the RV industry lobbyists have figure out how to squash this but maybe now we can get something done about it. The thing is we cannot let off the gas. We have to keep pushing but I think the time will be early 2025. Things are still brewing right now and we need to bring it to a boil.
@@pwestjr "Because the RV industry lobbyists have figure out how to squash this " Hear me out, Pete - I'm replying in good faith... As you've acknowledged (the government serves the lobby before they serve you or me). Granting more regulatory power to the government is actually indirectly empowering the lobbyists - the lobby assumes the power granted by the government through their influence. Lawyers [are] filthy creatures, but they are incentivized by litigation - if the lawyer wins, they make lots of money (coincidentally, to be paid by the manufacturer). Politicians on the other hand are incentivized by campaign contributions and prospects of reelection. To be effective, you would be competing with lobbyists, which have deep pocket books, and make their day to day living navigating the political system - quite an adversary, if you ask me... Granted, effective legal standing requires there be some legal/physical injury to the RV community, but it seems we have already sustained such injury. Lastly, with the industry also being financially driven, its my bet that they've taken a legally defensive stance by not admitting or acknowledging fault. It would only take one settlement or win, for them all to fold. This is why I see class action litigation as a more expedient/effective means over petitioning for additional regulation. ...thanks for hearing me out, if you've read this far.
Yes, he has been. Super awesome guy in my book. I am starting (yesterday) to track data now on my site, as well. I just got to get all of our members to participate in the survey. -Pete West
It’s Grand Design’s fault. They provide frame requirements to the frame manufacturers. If GD doesn’t build out the RV correctly, it’s not the frame manufacturer’s fault. Frame manufacturers better cover their ass better going forward.
Lippert and Grand Design have RUINED their collective reputations. Bad news travels very fast! Guess they didn’t learn that in business school. I expect both these companies to fail. Their employees could give a damn, which tells me upper management sucks. Happy appreciated employees do good work together as team members to put out a quality product. in this case, that ship long ago sailed! I wish both companies the very worst commerce has to offer them. Both companies deserve to be in the unemployment line. And for any company that’s want to buy the out, the 😅😅😅😅😅😅, like we’ll forget!
Wake up people- These PoS units are not meant/designed/intended/or built to be lived in full time. In addition, loading them to the max. and hauling in across shittyroads - what do you expect. Not rocket science people. Wise up, STOP buying this shit and quality will improve. Thank you.
I have to admit I really wanted a GD, But thanks to you guys out there on youtube I will be doing business elsewhere. Sadly they are all bad, but I think I landed on a Jayco Pinnacle. Or maybe Ill wait 6 months or so until lippert realizes they also have to get their sh*t together before I buy anything?! Good luck guys!
2018 GD momentum no frame issue but lippert issuse. We need another choice than lippert maybe if they had competition there tune would change. Everyone has their own issue the dealership you buy from if they don't have quality control then you buy brand new crap rig. We have been camping 24 years and seen it all. So bitch to them all because this crop has been going on since the first camper was made
Yet RVIA is silent, even though they've had no problems taking that mfg money to slap their sticker on the sidewall. Also, repairs to the pin box area will only transfer failures to the next line of weak areas on the frame (axle area, etc).
i fought with grand design for 2 years before i got somewhere and got an appointment for repairs. I spent over 5k getting all the answers grand design and lippert wanted then they denied my claim anyway. Got it fixed eventually took over 3 weeks and they fixed way more then I knew was broken. fast forward 500 miles later crack outside came back. now its sitting in Elkhart again waiting on repairs.
If the frames are flexing beyond specs and welds are braking then it's junk and the rv should be totaled. There's no patching a bad welded frame. That's it period. They take your money fast enough and they should stand behind their product just as fast. If they don't than they do not deserve to be in business.
Cost is the main issue, but there is a difference of making something on a budget or to a budget. If you make it to a budget your spec will be what the implementation is capable of. On a budget you will take shortcuts to make things work.
GD is not just being silent on their side. They are actively silencing customers from talking about their experience. How can anyone trust them at this point?
Everyone with this issue needs to file a report with the NHTSA so they will start looking into this and possibly get a recall going and get the manufacturers to act on this issue.
There needs to be a class action lawsuit against both companies… we, as buyers of these units should be reimbursed in full for our purchase, so that we can move forward and purchase a unit that is built properly
This is a big enough problem now that the government has to get involved. I have been writing my Congressmen that Washington needs to get involved. Remember, millions of Americans are selling their homes and buying trailers for retirement and hitting the road. IF these products are substandard and the government knows this to be true, it will affect my vote come November...
We are in a major election year maybe we all need to start lobbying the politicians to step up and push for regulation on RVs? People's lives literally hang in the ballance on these frame and suspension issues
I don’t own a GD anything but this is theultimate between lippert and GD. Owning rv’s for a bit more than 30 years it’s disgusting these two companies have done what they have. I’m all for some regulation on the industry and both the companies need to be put down for being absolute tyrants/sandpounders. And people ask me why I want to sell my two year old bought new motorhome. Rv industry is fail. Nuff said.
Grand Design's quality has gone down. I went to the RV show in my area to look at travel trailers. I wanted to buy a Grand Design but the quality of the interior was atrocious. Cabinet door hinges stripped out, and doors hung crooked. Lots of loose hardware. I heard Grand Design sold out to a corporate company.
Hello, I have a 2019 Forest River Sierra HT 3250ik with severe cracks in the pin box area. The manufacturer denied my claim because I am the second owner. Lippert also denied my claim because of the age of the unit and the fact that I am the second owner. After posting pictures on faceboom sites I received a call from Forest River saying they now want to help. I also received an email from Lippert that says they now want to help. I'm crossing my fingers that they will help me get my trailer repaired properly.
What models of Grand Design Solitudes are being affected by this issue? I have a ST372WB and have not seen any sign of a problem. Would be nice to see model number list and a complete inspection list.
The reason Grand Design Customer Service was so great was because they had a great product. It’s hard to have great customer service when your products are poor. This is happening across their entire line. I’m seeing that their travel travelers are leaking water in their pass-through and people are replacing the floors. I also agree on the way you get treated. I’ve had a couple issues while in warranty with my travel traveler, and I was not treated the same on any of them.
Maybe true uh, easier to take care of customers when the problems are at a minimum. Its a shame that the quality is being sacrificed to pump out more product quicker
It was not a great product. It's been a false sense of product culture that was lauded since the company started this is very similar to the Enron fiasco and takes people for a ride that financially leaves owners stuck with junk!
That’s the big question. Seems harder to get a response from them but that’s where contacting Pete can help you out. He can steer you towards the right person to contact.
yes, there needs to be regulation on RV trailers/motorhomes similar how there are code regulations for houses/buildings and safety regulations for vehicles. One has to be created specific to the RV industry. Change won't happen unless the government steps in and enforces it. Is it going to the BBB, Consumer Reports, National Highway Traffic & Safety, are they made aware? Keep the press and continue to be agents of change!
Great video.... and you guys stick together. You are right this is a SAFETY ISSUE. Not only is Grand Design responsible but their executives and engineers can be held personally liable for poor design and hiding problems. That means they can be personally sued and or criminally indicted. There is plenty of proof of poor design, construction and GD trying to hide the problem. Not good for GD. Stick together.
I’m enjoying these videos. We have a 6 yr old TT and planning to upgrade to a 5th wheel next year. So been researching for a few years. We came to like the GD 298BH, design and price for our needs. However we’re now looking much closer at these and other brands now. I’ve been shocked there is no regulations on RV manufacturing, that’s just crazy! Thanks for sharing all the valuable info! Keep up the hard work! Thanks.
Sure thing. Just do as much research as you can. Then do everything in your end to prevent wear and tear. Regular preventative maintenance, possible upgraded suspension or pin box and watch your tow numbers! Weigh yourself and do it right. Here’s a link to a great video that breaks it all down. Understanding Your TRUE Payload, Towing Capacity & Hitch Weight! ua-cam.com/video/wu1DEWfIagA/v-deo.html
Is it the welds or the material. 32 years welding and manufacturing. Open it up and fix it. Add more steel. More about the engineering. Should have a certified welding inspector on the property
2017 Heartland CY3611JS, thousands of miles, standard stock cheap pin-box. Traveled lots of rough roads, including I-10 east thru Shreveport LA which is a testing grounds. Been this route a number of times. Traveled a bit overloaded from time to time with my golf car in the back. To date, no apparent frame failures in progress. Or, excessive frame deflection or flex. Don’t know the future but I know the past. Happy camping.
As we all know right now the RV market is dropping off. The market is flooded with newer used units. Now is the time for these manufacturers to shut down production and take in all of these problem units for repair.
I saw a video that lippard said they produced one thousand frames a day. They also said they had six hundred wielders. So one wielder does also two frames a day? Im not a wielder but that sure seems like it would really be hard to keep up. Plus all the aluminum framing for the walls has to be wielded also. Seems like that would be overwhelming for the wielder.
Can't find the new site? Was on it and it disappeared? I wa on the first one as well and posted a lot of helpful information for preventative measures.
Who came up with the buzz word "frame flex" to describe this issue? Seems to be a lot of smoke & mirrors. Hasn't Lippert put forth their position regarding the root cause of the problem? How much longer is this going to go on? AFU
@@kaylae6798 oh, here we go...degrade & attack. Listen lady, bitching on social isn't going to fix the problem at this point. The time for bitching is OVER. If manufacturers are denying responsibility, it's past time to lawyer up. Otherwise, STFU. People are numb to the topic.
@@kaylae6798 time for personal attacks. OK. Very classy. Listen, if manufacturers are failing to take responsibility, whining on social media is not going to change a thing. Thinking it will is the real definition of "ignorant." It's past time to lawyer up. This is going to be a long drawn out fight in the courts. Others it doesn't affect are numb to the click bait "Frame Flex."
Whining ya okay... tell that to my 3 kids who's house is currently gone. It is VERY personal to us. You have zero clue what all of us are doing behind close doors because yet again your ignorance is showing. Lipperts video is a fluff video honestly.
@@kaylae6798 yes whining. And, you know nothing of me or my background. However, apparently you like to make assumptions based on your ignorance. Life is 1% of what happens to you & 99% how you react to it. Given your whiney helpless whoa is me attitude, good luck. BTW, "frame flex" has nothing to do with RV livability.
Great video thank guys I have a 2024 35’ montanna lagacey full body paint.I just recently found a crack on the outside of my trailer bottom left side of bed slide. Started with a squeak , then a soft spot in the floor between bed and closet . And now kitchen slide will not work right Greer packs were both replaced two months ago and not both bad agin. Had it my dealer , they called keystone . Keystone called me and said I could take my trailer to camping word . The camping world they said I could go to has a very bad rap. I said no way. So now I have to wait until early dec for keystone to come and pick up my trailer and take it back to the factory. Not sure if I should keep are just walk way from my trailer after keystone fixes it. Not sure if it gets fixed right the first time. I’m not a happy guy right now.
We where looking at a grand design! Now we aren’t…. No way..
Great video and we appreciate the dialogue and support for those of us going through this! -Charlotte
My 2017 Heartland Gateway is showing signs of Frame Failure. Its not just GD.
I think you guys nailed it why GD brand is becoming synonymous for "Frame Flex" when almost every other manufacturer also has frame flex issues. The difference is how the manufacturer takes care of the customer. The bottom line is the Lippert frames are being built too light with inconsistent welds and metallurgy. In addition, RV manufacturing poor engineering and quality control in connecting the superstructure to the frame causing bad things to happen. I have a 2019 Montana by Keystone that had a frame flex issue where the wall was cracking in front of the East-West bedroom slide. The bottom welds on the aluminum wall studs broke due to frame flex (frame welds were fine). After a bit of back and forth between dealer and Keystone, they agreed to send it to a competent and experienced shop to fix it. Keep in mind, I was just outside the 3-year structural warranty and Keystone still agreed to pay for it all. GD is at a tipping point, it needs to step up for its customers or risk losing its name and future sales.
My question is why is this going on now? they have been making these trailers have benn being built since the 70's or longer.
Another social media expert....
Yeah that's why i stopped watching Josh the nerd. He white washed it hard but by doing so he took his dealership with him. Big truck big RV is another channel i will not watch nor support his sponsors. Good thing i have i have The Thomas Register's to find the things that E Trailers carry without doing business with them.
I started looking for a newer RV, well fifth wheel, as i plan on traveling in the next few years. I can say GD is permanently off my list.
Pete helped me out today in reaching out to the right person at GD to verify my dealer service is being responsive to GD in getting our Solitude structure repaired. We have a 2021 S-2930RL - the smallest one.
That’s great. Glad you are getting some answers and help. Thanks for watching. 👍🏼
The 2nd owner deal is really gonna hurt GD. Either a company stands behind a product or they don’t. It drops the resale value to worthless.
There has been a change there. They are starting to accept second owner builds and I suppose because many of us are making a big stink over this when it should be a recall.
The "2nd Owner" excuse has been an industry standard. Forest River gave me the same excuse on a trailer that the pinbox crossmembers sheared on the passenger side, and that was back in 2011.
@@Itsa_MeaAnd that is exactly what it is, an excuse. A means to not repair a manufacturer defect so that they don’t have to do a manufacturer recall, which is not the auto industry does. Why? Because they are regulated by the federal government.
@@WestsontheMove yup! But too much Govt involvement can also lead to even higher prices than what we are seeing now. The Govt. will cost them more money to produce RVs, and you know who will end up paying in the long run, The consumer. It's going to ve interesting for sure.
@@Itsa_Mea Then you have a choice whether you want to buy a safer RV than what is out there now. There is a reason for regulations and at times that is because of the loss of human life! Think about that for a minute. What if it was you or one of your family members that lost their life because there wasn't any regulation to hold a company accountable. Then yes you could sue them but that won't keep them from continuing to build something the same way. You decide!
People don’t expect perfection, they expect engagement! & want results
Exactly. Just keep the people informed and be polite, it will go a long ways. People have patience if they are informed and the work gets done correctly
@@WhyWait especially when you pay 100k
BAD welds are a Lippert issue. Lippert and GD needs to take ownership with these issues. Lippert NEEDS to due a better job on its welds…and I do have the IS AND a Reese Goose box.
Yup, Grand Design not the only company having frame issues. Of course the whole Lag bolt thing seems to be a Grand Design only issues right now.
I went to the facebook site and tried to join and they told me I do not qualify, so they said I was denied.
Need a certified Navy welding inspector? From my observations, it's all about the welds, second is the formula for the steel and third, the process.
I also understand there are witnesses of the process coming forward.
Definitely agree. Thanks for watching Mark 👍🏼👍🏼
This is promising Mark. -Pete
Just the reason I will not buy a fifth wheel I've seen many other brands having the same issues .every one needs to push the issue to get it correct with the manufacturer
Great video! Thanks Chris for discussing this. We just recently sold our GD 390RK to a wonderful couple and they are planning to go full time. We've had a great experience with GD customer service in the past and we have a video on that experience. However, we have heard a lot of experiences about frame failures and the customer service at GD being unprofessional. While we were not experiencing any frame failures during our ownership I do think GD MUST do a better job of helping their customers. If heaven forbit the couple that purchased our GD started having issues I would want to know that GD would take care of them. These types of videos are great and bring exposure to the issue. This in turn will do a lot to motivate GD to look into this deeper and also treat customers with respect! Keep up the good work.
Hey Gina, Jarrett, I've been trying to get educated as much as possible on what to look for. I'm going to look at the lag bolts as soon as I get a chance. I did notice some rippling of the decals but hitching up I haven't seen any deflection of the pin box. We are a little worried that GD won't service us if a problem arises. Just hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.
Hey guys! Yes it’s a shame I fell the company has changed. Got too big too quick, started pumping out units and quality went down hill along with customer service I think. So far we seem to be good on our rig as well showing no signs but it’s something I’ll be keeping an eye on for sure.
What puzzles all is that people continue to buy their sub par no quality units!!!
Weekend Warrior toy haulers had this issue back in the early 2000s. They just declared bankruptcy and screwed a lot of people out of a lot of money, leaving them with dealing with the problems themselves. I have one and it sucks.
Yeah that really blows. It seems like they are built to only be used a few times a year if that, anything more and they just start to fall apart. Appreciate you watching and commenting. 👍🏼
I am an RV tech and inspector. I wanted to understand what how to weld and what a proper weld looks like. So I took welding at a college and it included blueprint reading and metallurgy. After these and MIG TiG and other courses I have looked at welds in these trailers and even showed my instructors and they flat out said these would never pass in a place that has regulations. This was extremely disheartening as I love RVs and was sold on GD, and would promote them. Now when asked I tell them there is no manufacturing company that follows regulations. Also have your rig inspected
Crazy to think that and hear that from somebody experienced like yourself. But I believe it. It’s a shame the standard isn’t higher on these frames and welds. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏼
GD customer service told me I expected too much since I didn’t spend a million dollars.
Many of us were fooled by the influencers who sang their praises from the rooftops. GD may have been a good company at one point but now they could care less about their customers.
My family was lucky in one way. We couldn’t get a new truck at the time so we settled on an Imagine temporarily. We had 6 or more trips planned first year. Our imagine was in the dealer most of the first year for repairs. We had planned on upgrading to solitude or momentum when we purchased a new truck & built our new garage for whatever we chose. The garage is in the process & has many more government hurdles so it is expected to be better than anything the unregulated rv industry builds.
I’m not buying anything based on the reviews from influencers. I will also pay for a third-party inspection new or used.
The only thing this industry will understand is $$$$s lost.
I am not a Grand Design owner but am a large fifth wheel owner and I very much feel that all RVs do need to be regulated and meet government mandated safety standards.
I'm an over the road truck driver and seeing the amount of rv accidents etc I pass is outrageous.
Granted alot of them may be driver error. But break downs and equipment failure is alot of it as well
Great content, guys. I’m not an RV’r, but feel bad for those that are with these serious issues. I also watch Liz Amazing. RV lawyers are threatening her now just for exposing the industry problems. Good luck to everybody.
Thanks John. I just went and watched that video as well. Pretty crazy stuff going on.
Didn't Winnebago buy GD in 18-19??? And Blackrock has majority of bags?
They sure did and the quality control went down hill. My question is this. Where is Don Clark and Winnebago? Why are they hiding and being silent?
Great great video. What about companies like Keystone, Lippart also makes frames for them?
Thank you! Yes, they all need to have qualified structural engineers inspect each and every Lippert frame that comes in to the RV assembler factories. It appears tht they just accept anything and everything without a thorough inspection of welds and quality. Then this is what makes the RV assmblers liable for accepting these frames. Both are to blame! They are more concerned about quantity and not quality control. In a nutshell, this is how this is perceived after all.
Unless you have a transferable warranty like Ember has I would NEVER BUY USED!
alternatives to lippert frames and the many rv manufacturers who use them, will put GD, Limpit and Winnebunghole out of business. the frame failers have scared their buyers away... imho
begging for regulation? My gosh, government help us... I'd suggest class-action litigation before resorting to more government.
Hahaha true true, I hear you
Litigation doesn't help the RV owners as much as federal regulations to prevent this from ever happening again. There are literally no protections at all, for RV owners going down the road, let alone the build process. These rigs are required to have VINs and license plates so how come there is no regulation since they travel down U.S. roadways? Because the RV industry lobbyists have figure out how to squash this but maybe now we can get something done about it. The thing is we cannot let off the gas. We have to keep pushing but I think the time will be early 2025. Things are still brewing right now and we need to bring it to a boil.
@@pwestjr "Because the RV industry lobbyists have figure out how to squash this " Hear me out, Pete - I'm replying in good faith... As you've acknowledged (the government serves the lobby before they serve you or me). Granting more regulatory power to the government is actually indirectly empowering the lobbyists - the lobby assumes the power granted by the government through their influence.
Lawyers [are] filthy creatures, but they are incentivized by litigation - if the lawyer wins, they make lots of money (coincidentally, to be paid by the manufacturer).
Politicians on the other hand are incentivized by campaign contributions and prospects of reelection. To be effective, you would be competing with lobbyists, which have deep pocket books, and make their day to day living navigating the political system - quite an adversary, if you ask me...
Granted, effective legal standing requires there be some legal/physical injury to the RV community, but it seems we have already sustained such injury.
Lastly, with the industry also being financially driven, its my bet that they've taken a legally defensive stance by not admitting or acknowledging fault. It would only take one settlement or win, for them all to fold. This is why I see class action litigation as a more expedient/effective means over petitioning for additional regulation. ...thanks for hearing me out, if you've read this far.
Hbrv has been gathering information about this.
Yes, he has been. Super awesome guy in my book. I am starting (yesterday) to track data now on my site, as well. I just got to get all of our members to participate in the survey. -Pete West
It’s Grand Design’s fault. They provide frame requirements to the frame manufacturers. If GD doesn’t build out the RV correctly, it’s not the frame manufacturer’s fault. Frame manufacturers better cover their ass better going forward.
Grand design would like recall on to have them fixed properly
Lippert and Grand Design have RUINED their collective reputations. Bad news travels very fast! Guess they didn’t learn that in business school. I expect both these companies to fail. Their employees could give a damn, which tells me upper management sucks. Happy appreciated employees do good work together as team members to put out a quality product.
in this case, that ship long ago sailed!
I wish both companies the very worst commerce has to offer them. Both companies deserve to be in the unemployment line. And for any company that’s want to buy the out, the 😅😅😅😅😅😅, like we’ll forget!
Wake up people- These PoS units are not meant/designed/intended/or built to be lived in full time. In addition, loading them to the max. and hauling in across shittyroads - what do you expect. Not rocket science people. Wise up, STOP buying this shit and quality will improve. Thank you.
I have to admit I really wanted a GD, But thanks to you guys out there on youtube I will be doing business elsewhere. Sadly they are all bad, but I think I landed on a Jayco Pinnacle. Or maybe Ill wait 6 months or so until lippert realizes they also have to get their sh*t together before I buy anything?! Good luck guys!
2018 GD momentum no frame issue but lippert issuse. We need another choice than lippert maybe if they had competition there tune would change. Everyone has their own issue the dealership you buy from if they don't have quality control then you buy brand new crap rig. We have been camping 24 years and seen it all. So bitch to them all because this crop has been going on since the first camper was made
We stop buying Grand Deigns then they Wake up when all theses Customers complaining about the issue. With there Sales down they’LL do right.
And when someone ends up getting killed because of these flaws?? Then what Grand Design??
Yet RVIA is silent, even though they've had no problems taking that mfg money to slap their sticker on the sidewall.
Also, repairs to the pin box area will only transfer failures to the next line of weak areas on the frame (axle area, etc).
i fought with grand design for 2 years before i got somewhere and got an appointment for repairs. I spent over 5k getting all the answers grand design and lippert wanted then they denied my claim anyway. Got it fixed eventually took over 3 weeks and they fixed way more then I knew was broken. fast forward 500 miles later crack outside came back. now its sitting in Elkhart again waiting on repairs.
If the frames are flexing beyond specs and welds are braking then it's junk and the rv should be totaled. There's no patching a bad welded frame. That's it period. They take your money fast enough and they should stand behind their product just as fast. If they don't than they do not deserve to be in business.
Cost is the main issue, but there is a difference of making something on a budget or to a budget. If you make it to a budget your spec will be what the implementation is capable of. On a budget you will take shortcuts to make things work.
GD is not just being silent on their side. They are actively silencing customers from talking about their experience. How can anyone trust them at this point?
Everyone with this issue needs to file a report with the NHTSA so they will start looking into this and possibly get a recall going and get the manufacturers to act on this issue.
Very nice video with Pete @weatonthe move . Thank you for showing the problems with some of these rigs. 👍
No problem 👍 Appreciate you watching!
There needs to be a class action lawsuit against both companies… we, as buyers of these units should be reimbursed in full for our purchase, so that we can move forward and purchase a unit that is built properly
Chris Holland can no longer be trusted now! Grand Design is not an RV that anyone should buy any longer. -Pete
This is a big enough problem now that the government has to get involved. I have been writing my Congressmen that Washington needs to get involved. Remember, millions of Americans are selling their homes and buying trailers for retirement and hitting the road. IF these products are substandard and the government knows this to be true, it will affect my vote come November...
We are in a major election year maybe we all need to start lobbying the politicians to step up and push for regulation on RVs? People's lives literally hang in the ballance on these frame and suspension issues
GD = Grand Defect
Crappy Steel from Chinah !!
FJB !!!
Great video to you both! Lots of great information!
Appreciate it Josh! Thanks for watching 👍🏼
Thank you @joshuaeskins4204!
I don’t own a GD anything but this is theultimate between lippert and GD. Owning rv’s for a bit more than 30 years it’s disgusting these two companies have done what they have. I’m all for some regulation on the industry and both the companies need to be put down for being absolute tyrants/sandpounders. And people ask me why I want to sell my two year old bought new motorhome. Rv industry is fail. Nuff said.
Right on, it’s a shame. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your comment 👍🏼
Grand design. Advertising their unit s are full time rated !
Grand Design's quality has gone down. I went to the RV show in my area to look at travel trailers. I wanted to buy a Grand Design but the quality of the interior was atrocious. Cabinet door hinges stripped out, and doors hung crooked. Lots of loose hardware. I heard Grand Design sold out to a corporate company.
Yes Winnebago bought them a few years back. I believe they got too big too quick and quality has taken a hit. Thanks for watching.
Is this only for 5th wheels or all Grand Designs? What I have a TT transcend 240ml 2022
Mainly seeing this in fifth wheels and usually only the heavier long fifth wheel units. 👍🏼
Is it just GD rv’s or is it all Lippert frames?
Multiple manufacturers.
Lippert makes almost every frame for all RV manufacturers and it seems to be affecting other RVs as well.
There are several customers on You Tube that have been bought off by GD and they have signed NDAs scary stuff
Yes I’ve heard about a few of these cases now. 👍🏼
It's not Grand design it's Winnebago they're too big for their own good
It is both and it is Lippert too!
Hello,
I have a 2019 Forest River Sierra HT 3250ik with severe cracks in the pin box area. The manufacturer denied my claim because I am the second owner. Lippert also denied my claim because of the age of the unit and the fact that I am the second owner. After posting pictures on faceboom sites I received a call from Forest River saying they now want to help. I also received an email from Lippert that says they now want to help. I'm crossing my fingers that they will help me get my trailer repaired properly.
Hope they get it resolved for you. A buddy of mine just found cracks in his frame too.
What models of Grand Design Solitudes are being affected by this issue? I have a ST372WB and have not seen any sign of a problem. Would be nice to see model number list and a complete inspection list.
Go check out the page Grand Design Major Issues on Facebook. Pete has posted spreadsheets of RV models that are having the most issues.
Its frame failure.
The reason Grand Design Customer Service was so great was because they had a great product. It’s hard to have great customer service when your products are poor. This is happening across their entire line. I’m seeing that their travel travelers are leaking water in their pass-through and people are replacing the floors. I also agree on the way you get treated. I’ve had a couple issues while in warranty with my travel traveler, and I was not treated the same on any of them.
Maybe true uh, easier to take care of customers when the problems are at a minimum. Its a shame that the quality is being sacrificed to pump out more product quicker
It was not a great product. It's been a false sense of product culture that was lauded since the company started this is very similar to the Enron fiasco and takes people for a ride that financially leaves owners stuck with junk!
Just one question what about the ones who has no warranty. But it’s a frame issue
That’s the big question. Seems harder to get a response from them but that’s where contacting Pete can help you out. He can steer you towards the right person to contact.
Well, looks like they’re going to have to change their motto they sure as hell ain’t doing the right thing
😂😂😂
yes, there needs to be regulation on RV trailers/motorhomes similar how there are code regulations for houses/buildings and safety regulations for vehicles. One has to be created specific to the RV industry. Change won't happen unless the government steps in and enforces it. Is it going to the BBB, Consumer Reports, National Highway Traffic & Safety, are they made aware? Keep the press and continue to be agents of change!
Great video.... and you guys stick together. You are right this is a SAFETY ISSUE. Not only is Grand Design responsible but their executives and engineers can be held personally liable for poor design and hiding problems. That means they can be personally sued and or criminally indicted. There is plenty of proof of poor design, construction and GD trying to hide the problem. Not good for GD. Stick together.
GREAT JOB KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK EXPOSING POOR DESIGN, 🙊🙉🙈😩😩😩😩😩
They get away because the industry self certifies and they do not have any third party inspections to the published ANSI standards for rv’s
I was so close with going with Grand Design. Now I’m glad I didn’t. 😅
Put oversized lag bolts spot weld bolts check all weights sumo springs is what I would do
I’m enjoying these videos. We have a 6 yr old TT and planning to upgrade to a 5th wheel next year. So been researching for a few years. We came to like the GD 298BH, design and price for our needs. However we’re now looking much closer at these and other brands now. I’ve been shocked there is no regulations on RV manufacturing, that’s just crazy! Thanks for sharing all the valuable info! Keep up the hard work! Thanks.
Sure thing. Just do as much research as you can. Then do everything in your end to prevent wear and tear. Regular preventative maintenance, possible upgraded suspension or pin box and watch your tow numbers! Weigh yourself and do it right.
Here’s a link to a great video that breaks it all down.
Understanding Your TRUE Payload, Towing Capacity & Hitch Weight!
ua-cam.com/video/wu1DEWfIagA/v-deo.html
Grand Design went to hell in a hand basket after it was bought out by Winnebago.
Is it just GDesign frames or Lippert frames overall
Lippert pretty much makes almost every frame for all RV companies and yes Grand Design is not the only company having issues with their frames.
It is predominately Grand design, don't let Fraydie cats sugar coat this problem. It's mostly Grand design!
Is it the welds or the material. 32 years welding and manufacturing. Open it up and fix it. Add more steel. More about the engineering. Should have a certified welding inspector on the property
Totally agree. Probably everything, better welds, material and engineering 👍🏼
2017 Heartland CY3611JS, thousands of miles, standard stock cheap pin-box. Traveled lots of rough roads, including I-10 east thru Shreveport LA which is a testing grounds. Been this route a number of times.
Traveled a bit overloaded from time to time with my golf car in the back.
To date, no apparent frame failures in progress. Or, excessive frame deflection or flex. Don’t know the future but I know the past.
Happy camping.
Good deal. Glad to hear things are working out for you. Safe travels 👍🏼
As we all know right now the RV market is dropping off. The market is flooded with newer used units. Now is the time for these manufacturers to shut down production and take in all of these problem units for repair.
Wouldn’t that be nice. 👍🏼
I saw a video that lippard said they produced one thousand frames a day. They also said they had six hundred wielders. So one wielder does also two frames a day? Im not a wielder but that sure seems like it would really be hard to keep up. Plus all the aluminum framing for the walls has to be wielded also. Seems like that would be overwhelming for the wielder.
I agree, rushing production and sacrificing quality. All about that bottom dollar. Thanks for watching 👍🏼
Can't find the new site? Was on it and it disappeared? I wa on the first one as well and posted a lot of helpful information for preventative measures.
❇️LINK TO FACEBOOK PAGE❇️
Grand Design Major Issues: facebook.com/groups/granddesignrvmajorissues
Has any frameflex issues trickled down to the travel trailer industry or is it mainly 5 th wheels?
Mainly fifth wheels and mostly the heavy, long fifth wheels at that. 👍🏼
Thanks for sharing !!! 👍👍🇨🇦✌️🇨🇦✌️🇨🇦👍✌️
No problem 👍
Grand Design is doing the same as Forest River.
Scary thought 😬😬😬
Who came up with the buzz word "frame flex" to describe this issue? Seems to be a lot of smoke & mirrors. Hasn't Lippert put forth their position regarding the root cause of the problem? How much longer is this going to go on? AFU
As someone currently living through this nightmare it certainly the hell isn't smoke and mirrors for my FT family. Your ignorance is showing.
@@kaylae6798 oh, here we go...degrade & attack. Listen lady, bitching on social isn't going to fix the problem at this point. The time for bitching is OVER. If manufacturers are denying responsibility, it's past time to lawyer up. Otherwise, STFU. People are numb to the topic.
@@kaylae6798 time for personal attacks. OK. Very classy. Listen, if manufacturers are failing to take responsibility, whining on social media is not going to change a thing. Thinking it will is the real definition of "ignorant." It's past time to lawyer up. This is going to be a long drawn out fight in the courts. Others it doesn't affect are numb to the click bait "Frame Flex."
Whining ya okay... tell that to my 3 kids who's house is currently gone. It is VERY personal to us. You have zero clue what all of us are doing behind close doors because yet again your ignorance is showing. Lipperts video is a fluff video honestly.
@@kaylae6798 yes whining. And, you know nothing of me or my background. However, apparently you like to make assumptions based on your ignorance. Life is 1% of what happens to you & 99% how you react to it. Given your whiney helpless whoa is me attitude, good luck. BTW, "frame flex" has nothing to do with RV livability.
Great video thank guys I have a 2024 35’ montanna lagacey full body paint.I just recently found a crack on the outside of my trailer bottom left side of bed slide. Started with a squeak , then a soft spot in the floor between bed and closet . And now kitchen slide will not work right Greer packs were both replaced two months ago and not both bad agin. Had it my dealer , they called keystone . Keystone called me and said I could take my trailer to camping word . The camping world they said I could go to has a very bad rap. I said no way. So now I have to wait until early dec for keystone to come and pick up my trailer and take it back to the factory. Not sure if I should keep are just walk way from my trailer after keystone fixes it. Not sure if it gets fixed right the first time. I’m not a happy guy right now.
Sounds awful. Hang in there. Hope things work out for you.