Some film you asked for: Das Boot, Stalingrad, Die Blechtrommel, Schindlers List, Die Brücke, Der Untergang, Stauffenberg, Im Westen nichts neues and a lot older ones like Des Teufels General
The USA's Pledge of Allegiance leaves a very dirty taste in our mouths as well. When I first heard about it, I couldn't believe this was happening. Over the years I've learned that it's not the only crazy thing about nationalism in the USA.
While I agree that the pledge of allegiance might be misused, it is vital to understand where it came from. You can't just look through your "German glasses" (durch die deutsche Brille) and not weigh and see the history of other countries. The USA was a country that was made of immigrants from all over the world. At that time it seemed necessary to educate them in "we are one" and I understand the need. Also, there is nothing "nationalistic" about the pledge of allegiance itself. It really is inward looking to create a nation when nationalist fervor was rampant around the world.
When I (German) was 16 my class trip (it was 1 week long) had one day where we went to a concentration camp. 2 students had to do a presentation and that was mandatory for us. It was one experience I'll never forget. Especially being there with my classmates. Before going we wondered how people in particular the "clowns" would behave. But once we arrived everyone was silence and no-one was talking. We listened to the presentation and then we could decide to go into the gas chambers and look around ourselves. I think we were there for at least 3 hours and everyone was silent and most shed some tears. Some talked silently about their family history. The rest of the day we went to a museum that used to be a prison and at the end we watched a movie about the Geschwister Scholl (Scholl siblings). My great grandparents fought on both sides. My British great grandfather died in war (his plane was shot) and I always felt bad being German or talking German infront of my great Grandmother. At her funeral most older people did not want to talk to me and called me N... . My other great grandfather and his son also died. My grandfather never talked about the war as he was a kid loosing his father. My mom told me that an uncle came home with PTSD (which noone knew back then) and that he never talked to anyone after that. My German grandmothers side lived on a farm and they had war prisoners working at the farm. Not sure how they treated them but their family still sometimes visit the farm. The grandfather of my boyfriend was my best source. He had Alzheimer's so the only thing he could remember was the war time. He did not go to war as he was too young but he was in the boy camps. He loved talking about it as this was the best time in his life. Having only boys all together and learning how to fish etc. So it was kind of uncomfortable hearing about it and making the (illegal) Hitler greeting. But now I understand that they got the kids with those fun activities
I think my visist was pretty much what peter described... we understood the seriousness of the history and what we are being "taught" - I thin we even went into a gas chamber ("shower")... in the end is wasn't soul crushing. Still, it defenitely helped to better understand what was going on back then ... (unfortunately I can't tell anymore at what age we visited the camp... 16 sounds about right as stated above)
Feli from Germany made a great video about that topic! Well worth checking out. The only family story I have heard about that time was how towards the end of the war the advancing americans used the hill right next to my grandmother's house to position their artillery to fire into a small town in the area that refused to surrender. They were literally firing over their heads so of course she was scared. But the soldiers themselves were very kind, offering the kids chocolate and chewing gum (something they hadn't seen before) however her mother told my grandma to stay away from the soldiers and not accept any gifts.
Your grandma was right. The US let starve many mio. of Germans to death. So rape was not necessary for the GIs, like the Siviets did it. It is easy to get sex from hungry german girls.
When i was i Auschwitz i heard a story of a survier u had to through bucjet over bucket of ash in the winter so the Soilders and officers do not slip over the ice. Later he watched the burning of Eichmann and Rekognized that one person only leaves a hand of ash when burned in crematorium. And so he realized what he did every winter morning...
His comment about shared responsibility, at least to me, reflects a common misunderstanding: We are not responsible for what happened back then. We are responsible for it not happening again. And so are you, and basically everyone else on this earth.
We went to a concentration camp in 9th grade and I was really worried that the class clowns would joke around or something but when we were there EVERYONE was silent and respectful. We went to Strasbourg after that because it was near and we were given time to go shopping and stuff. No one was in the mood for shopping that day
I still remember having the same thoughts. The drive their was loud and noisy. People were cracking jokes. But on our way back the whole bus was quiet, not a word was said.
In school we discussed WW2 in history but also in German language to find out the rhetorical figures e.g. Göbbels used. I found that very helpful to identify totalitarian language later on.
Yes, my grandmother was about 12 when the war was going on. She told me once that they saw 1-2 years before the war that a jewish man was put a rope around him (idk if foot or neck) and being pulled by a horse cart on the floor to death through the city. She, her mother and all people around were frozen of fear and shock. Anyone who said something against it would be on the trial or would have the same fate. I think the instinct to live and the fear was too extreme to say a word. After war started, my grandfather went to war because he had to (or you get killed for treason instead) and captured by russian soldiers (after war too). We never ever heard of him again, we think they killed him. And no, i don't think kids in the younger grades would be inspired in any way by this. Most of them are either sad and shocked or too little interested in history class in that age.
I am 38. We visited KZ Dachau at my peek puberty. We wanted to have a fun day's out with the class, and we were ready to make fun of it. It's humanly impossible to do that, though. Even we learned that the hard way. It's tough. Not like in a harmful way though, I am thankful. I went to Auschwitz concentration camp as an adult. Just in a phase of my life where I needed some reality checks. These places teach you how pretty and valuable life is
The Germans outside of the CCs looked not different from the people inside. During the last half year of the war all railroads were destroyed by fighterbombers. So there was no possebility anymore to transport supplies.
My grandfather was forced to go to war and was captured by Soviet soldiers. But they didn't want this war either so they decided to sit it out together, shared their meals with the German captives, taught each other the languages etc. My grandfather always spoke well of the Soviets and was really happy when I decided to learn Russian as my third foreign language at school ❤
The current case of Aiwanger shows sadly, that this is by no means shared by all Germans - and I know these people like him. When I went to school, they were everywhere and I suppose they are still here today.
My grandmother often talked about the bombing raids. The holocaust they already noticed that people they didn't like were being picked up and disappearing more and more often, that things weren't going well for them and that some didn't survive, they could imagine, but they didn't realize the full extent of these crimes. On the other hand, if you have to regularly salvage burned bodies from rubble, you're toughened up a bit too, so rumors of a few more murders aren't such a highlight. I didn't get to know my grandfathers anymore. One was a welder on the home front, a trade unionist and a social democrat. He was scared enough of the Nazis himself. The other was in Russia. But he said almost nothing. All we know is that he fought in some swamps with a light horse-drawn ATgun. His family was resettled from Basarabia to Poland and later had to flee from there on foot, which some of the family did not survive. I know nothing about his politic opinion. I met several people from the Wehrmacht and a few people from the Waffen SS. At that time there were also many old men with missing limbs walking around here. This was not an unfamiliar sight in that time.
I remember visiting Buchenwald well. These trips are not undertaken before higher education (eg. once the students are 15-18 years old), so the trip was taken seriously from our students. Anything else would have probably incurred a hefty penalty from the teacher anyhow. Germans ought to respect these sites, no matter how young they are. It is usually people from abroad that don't do so, and that's a terrible shame. From my personal point of view, the history is actually not taught well enough - in Bavaria anyhow. You do learn alot, but there is so much left out in my opinion. A point to not leave out too: It challenges the national pride. Many, especially older Germans, have little to no pride in being German. The rather recent resurrection of national pride and beliefs in younger Germans is something I have been observing myself. Not a bad thing by default anyway.
31 y.o. German here. I can quite confirm what was said in this video. On my way to the Abitur ( A-Level, for Brits) we were taught a LOT about this period in 9th & 10th grade. We´ve read Brecht, we saw the movie adaption of "The boy in the striped pyjamas" & "the reader" and we discussed it for several lessons. For my Abitur I´ve had Geschichte Leistungskurs (History major), so I´ve been taught even more about nazi germany. I´ve been to Buchenwald with my history-major class & it was a humbling and kind of depressing sight, altough in Buchenwald there´s nothing much to see (no barracks remaining, only outlines...). We´ve visited a Museum and got insight on actual WWII files and letters of soldiers (sometimes heartbreaking to read)... I did a graded presentation on the SA for class, ... All under the premise: "this must never happen again!" And I truly think, that it´s good that way.
One of my grandmothers once said she was always scared to say the wrong thing esp. after having her first child and knowing they would take it away from her if she would have been out of line just once
I'm 54 and we visited KZ Mauthausen (in Austria) when we were all 14 or 15. A bus full of young children, you can imagine the noise. On our way back, all was silent. So silent that at some point, the bus driver turned the radio on. Hearing our contemporary songs, we slowly returned to the 1980s. My grandpa came back from Russia with only one leg and splinters in his back and spine that slowly killed him. He died when I was only five, and he must have suffered incredible pain. My grandma later told me that during his final weeks, he basically lived on morphine and beer. At least I have it official that he wasn't a Nazi. Typed in English by the American authorities, ironically on the back of some Nazi form they cut in half. Must have been some problem with their paper supply.
The one movie you want to see is Die Brücke (The Bridge, 1959), the story of schoolmates joining or being forced into the Wehrmacht defending their hometown’s bridge. This movie has everything: patriotism, fatalism, madness of war, delusion and defeat. Very moving and enlightening.
Personally, I think a sense of collective responsibility to ensure history doesn't repeat itself is a good thing. More nations and people should adopt it and be aware that to look away means complicity. I appreciate the way our schooling emphasizes this need for initiative.
WW2 movies from Germany that are worth a watch: Der Untergang (the downfall depicting the final days in the Führer's bunker), a TV series Unsere Mütter unsere Väter (our mothers our fathers, depicting the lifes of ordinary people from the beginnings to the end of the war), Stalingrad (showing the perspective of the ordinary Landser foot soldier in the madness of war) Die Brücke (the bridge, following a bunch of HJ boys aged 14 that were drafted right out of school into the Volkssturm (the Nazi equivalent to the traditional German last stand "Landsturm" in which every man capable of holding a weapon is send to fight to the death) and send to defend a small insignificant bridge somewhere in nowhere and face off advancing American tanks, focusing on the senselessness, indoctrination of the generation that grew up in the third Reich and the disregard for human life by the system) and last but definitely not least: Das Boot (following a German U-Boot (submarine) and its crew, one of the best war movies ever created
My Grandfather was only 16 years old when he was sent to the western front. He was really no fan of war at all. Our family had also to give all horses to the army.
I was on a "Anne-Frank-Gesamtschule", or a school named after famous holocaust victim Anne Frank. As you can imagine, we were very thorough in our education about WW2 and it’s many horrors - aside from history class, where it’s covered extensively, it’s a focus in almost every single other subject (aside from stuff like sports obvsl.) there are project weeks, movies, books, you make visits to the Anne Frank house in the Netherlands, if at all possible you visit a concentration camp, you have to write essays or presentations about the "Stolpersteine“ and other monuments of remembrance, etc. Our education system isn’t perfect, but I’d say we cover the Holocaust and the nazi regime very well, with loads of different factors. It’s not hidden or censored, as many aspects of slavery in the US for example
To put the threat of a repeat, no matter how minor, into a corresponding view: Germany had been deemed the initiator of WW1 which was technically not correct, with the first declaration of war coming from Austria. BUT Germany was the biggest enabler of WW1 by giving carte blanche to Austria, which then caused all of the toppling of dominos of successive declarations of war on all involved. That Germany was saddled with an absolutely insane amount of reparations while technically no foreign soldier had set foot on German territory at the German capitulation was all it took to establish the erroneous Dolchstoßlegende, the Stab in the Back legend. This resulted in extremist movements inside the newly formed democracy splintering into ever more radical parties. Fast forward, rise of Nazis and end of WW2. Many Germans feared the complete dissolution of Germany and being integrated into the respective surrounding countries. After the extent of atrocities that had been committed became full public knowledge even some Germans reluctantly agreed that this may have been for the best. But most knew, deep down, if ANYTHING, no matter how minor, even approaching a similar outcome ever were to originate from Germany again, we wouldn't be given a third chance. Germany would be forcibly dissected and partitioned into other countries, and any possibility of sovereignty would be dead and gone forever. With the Sword of Damocles dangling over your head you better wise up and get your act together. That it worked out so well in the end was probably a pleasant surprise for Germany as well. Now we've trained more than three generations of Germans at seeking a peaceful, economic resolution to conflicts that it becomes difficult to notice when a military support of a country defending itsself against an aggressor would be more appropriate (Ukraine, cough). We are still deathly afraid of taking even baby steps towards any kind of militarism, be it as defensive as possible, because it has been inscribed into the later articles of our constitution: "Von deutschem Boden darf nie wieder Gewalt ausgehen." / "Never again may violence originate from German soil." Edit: one of the best, if not THE best German anti-war movies is "Das Boot " dealing with a German submarine, its crew, and their horrible experiences during WW2. Incidentally it is also lauded as the most accurate submarine movie ever made. It is very loosely based on a true incident, and a fictional book written by one of the crew members. It definitely doesn't glorify Nazis, yet I will bet nearly anything that you will root so hard for the crew at least once. Highly recommend it. Try finding the OV with subtitles.
Both my grandfathers were in the German army. For one, I know little, just that he was in the Navy, and actually stationed in Crimea. The other was in a reconnaissance group., on the eastern front. He was in Stalingrad. When Russian troops started encircling-the city, he found a bicycle and actually deserted. He rode all the way back to Germany (I was told that it took him a year, also that Russians actually gave him food). He reunited with his wife who had to flee with the kids from the (then) eastern regions of Germany when the Russians came. My dad was born in a place that is Poland today. He actually returned there by curiosity.
It actuality surprised me how well Simon spoke about this, as ge is not always correct in his videos 😅 Usually i would refer you to Feli's post about this topic: ua-cam.com/video/DMNJk1LNV0w/v-deo.html I was in school in Germany during the 70s and 80s, i never had a school trip to a camp, but we did indeed analyze some literature regarding the holocaust "Damals war es Friedrich", not in history class, but in German class. In Geography i hwd a teacher that made us show the borders of Germany, but there was always a trick question: It made a difference if he asked us toxhow the borders of Germany, or the federal republic... Meaning he told us to include the territory from before WW2, that is no longer Germany... go figure. I also agree with what Simon mentioned about the lack of teaching about militarily sucess and battles ,that is totally glossed over, at least when i was in school. My grandparents suffered through the war, but never talked about it much. I would have a warning, though: the constant pictures of showing footage of atrocities may desensitize some.
My grandma was still a young child when the war was raging and she sometimes told me about the bomb alarms that would go off in the middle of the night and how she would always wait on the stairs for her beloved cat, which without she refused to get into the bunker under their house. Later she told me how she and her siblings had to steal food from their neighbors to have something to eat and about the first time they all saw a black man. He was on a market and handed out oranges to the hungry kids but my grandma and her siblings were so scared that they ran home and the man followed them to give them the oranges, but her father saw the guy following them, opened the door to let the kids in and stood in front of them to face the stranger and ask him what he wanted from the kids. After some explaining I think he let the kids get a few oranges from the man. I just now remembered this story’s.
I'm 40 (All my grandparents were small children during that time. Their parents were going along with the regime, their fathers didn't survive the war.) and I never visited a concentration camp. But the 3. Reich was a big subject in school. It was talked about not just in history class but also in German literature, in art and music and some more in social studies. It was a lot. Still I went and learned more when I was older. Now my kid is growing up and I dread telling her all this. Lately the war diary of Erich Kästner was published. He is a well liked writer mostly known for his children's books. He stayed in Germany even though he was critical and the Nazis burned his books and banned him from writing. His diary now shows that he was actually cheering on the war efforts and playing down what might be happening to the Jews. That's a real blow.
"Mein Kampf" by Adolf Hitler wasn't accessible publicly in Germany for many years. That has changed only rescently a couple of years ago. The state o Bavaria was owner of the copyright, but refused to print it. Distribution of the book would have been a copyright infringement. Hence the book wasn't available in Germany. As a consequence, a couple of more or less abrigded or "cleaned" versions were available. If you really wanted to get a copy of it you could order it from the USA and other countries which didn't mind it being printed and sold. There were a couple of collections of texts from that era, the most notable one being possibly Walther Hofer "Der Nationalsozialismus - Dokumente 1933 - 1945". It contains excerpts from "Mein Kampf" too. "Mein Kampf" is predominantly horrible to read. Most of the Nazi propaganda too. For most people today it's really hard to understand how that movement could become popular at all. And maybe that's the first misunderstanding about the Nazis. That they were allowed to grab power didn't necessarily mean that every German was convinced of their ideology. In fact the Nazi party, the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei), was helped at getting into government by another far right conservative party, the DNVP (Deutschnationale Volkspartei), - led by the press tycoon Alfred Hugenberg. He was a fierce nationalist and antisemitic propagandist. He profited from the dire economic situation by blaming democratic polticians and parties in his publications for the misery of the years after the crash and economic crisis in the late 1920ies and early 1930ies. There was extremely high unemployment and particularly middle class people were losing their wealth due to inflation. Hence the economic and political situation was the perfect basis for political extremists, both on the right and the left, to gain more and more support from people becoming increasingly desperate and angry. Many copies of "Mein Kampf" have been printed, sold and distributed then. However hardly anyone has actually read it - understandably. And possibly many thought they'd know enough by listening to Hilter's public speeches.However, at that time already, there were a few people regretting that hardly anyone had read what Hitler was aiming for and what "Mein Kampf" was revealing about Hitler himself. It could have been a serious warning for some at least. I think that another aspect of that time is ignored too often: the rise of communism after the Bolshevic Revolution in Russia in 1917. During the 1920ies waves of emigrants from Russia and reports of violent persecution of political opponents and the churches had swept Europe causing a panic of its own. As a result political movements on the right were trying to advertise themselves as the only effective protectors against a communist revolution in their countries - often successfully while democracy was losing, eg in Austria, Italy, Spain. My grandfather, my mother's father, had very vivid memories of that time.
How much time do you have? ;-) I'll answer your question about war movies first, b/c it's the fastest one: I recommend to get your hands on a trilogy titled "08/15", and another movie called "Die Brücke" ('The Bridge' - but not the Swe/Den TV crime show ;-) Edit: oh, and yes, make sure to get the 1959-version... didn't know there was a remake. Never trust a remake.). There are more, but those two are the best ones to watch that come to my mind in an instant. As for school education - I was in school when "Schindler's list" came out. We never visited a concentration camp, but they made it a compulsory trip, all pupils of a certain age (I think it was 10th or 11th grade and up) were required to take the bus to a larger city closeby where there was a cinema showing it on multiple screens, so several hundred pupils had to go there. About 20 of us refused to, and I was one of them, for two reasons: 1) we'd have to pay for it ourselves and I didn't have that money at that time, 2) and that was the more important reason, I did not want to watch that particular movie crammed in a cinema with some hundred other pupils with exactly the age and the attitude to crack into joking under stress - I knew most of them, and I didn't want that kind of experience to disturb the movie on me. Sooo, there we were - 20 of us. We had to appear in school (that I understood, they wanted to make sure we wouldn't enjoy our free time), we got locked into a classroom under the supervision of an RE teacher, an we were handed a work sheet of about 20 questions. Many of those questions were about what we had learned about 1933-45, all of them were designed to expose any anti-semitic or fascist leanings we might have. The last one was the one asking "why did you refuse to take part in this school trip?". We never got any feedback on what we had written, but no one was allowed to leave the room (except to go to the bathroom) until all questions were answered and the allotted time was over. Among us, we later talked about that, especially question #20. None of us didn't go for the reason they were screening for... almost all of us were leaning to the political left, that's the !anti!-fascist side - we were that rebellious age and some had thought they'd start to oppose following political orders. One of my school-friends critizised the commercial aspect and the presentation as a "Hollywood spectacle". So, they were looking for Nazis and found socialists, social democrats, anti-capitalists and the like. Realizing that, our group of 20 had a good laugh on them and the traumatizing experience changed into just an experience. Some of my generation had parents born during the war (my mother was 2 years old. Her family had to flee from Prussia, and she vividly remembered being "verschüttet" (being in a partial collapse in a shelter when the house was hit by a bomb) as well as a train stopping, everyone getting off and hiding and being shot at by planes with machine guns). They wanted to take a ship from Danzig, but my granny had a bad feeling and turned into stubborn-mode, nearly got beaten by my granddad b/c he was in a panic as the ship seemed to be the last option to leave. That ship's name was the "Gustloff" - she suffered from survivor's guilt ever after. The family reached Berlin, and that was not a good place to be when the Russians "liberated" the city. Considering some of the Prussian part of my family originated from France and had to flee from there as they were Hugenots, there wasn't much love for a regime who prosecuted people for their faith (or race). My great-grandfather was a teacher and a social democrat, the Nazis beat him up and he spent some time in a labour camp, but - probably because of the political bit - he survived. My granny once told me they were required to speak the Nazi greeting - but they changed it to "Drei Liter!" (which sounded similar enough, especially if you mumbled a bit). My other grandfather was a border guard in Southern Germany. I was told he had read "Mein Kampf" and someone in the village he lived in must have heard him comment "that's not going to end well". He then apparently defined his duty to guard the border from potential enemies coming !into! Germany and didn't really care much about people crossing the border to get !out! of Germany - they were no threat, and if there's not threat you don't need a guard, right? Plus, he may have littered (i.e. "forgotten" his lunch-packet in the sacred German forest one time or another) on top of that. He was diagnosed an "insane person" and euthanized by the Nazis. From a modern point of view, knowing about PTSD and stuff, I have NO idea how the survivors were able to rebuild. Maybe the key was to bury the memories. Working at a hospital, I once talked to a patient who still was of the "war generation". He asked if he could be given something strong so he could sleep. It's the memories that are coming back, he said, he had been driving a flame-panzer. There's another story I was told by another patient I think you might like, and it's a chance to end this on a more positive note: He was a young man in a ditch in Northern Germany during the final phase of the war. The invasion was upon them, and so was the "Tommy" artillery. Finally, his captain had enough and decided to surrender. He said he was very scared, they all were, because they thought they might get shot the moment they walked out with their hands raised, or some time later (apparently that was a thing, despite any Geneva convention on POW-treatment). At the very least, they were convinced, they'd be treated like animals, brutalized, beaten, or what not. What actually happened was they were greeted with cheers when they walked out in surrender, and later on provided with rations and water, and even some sweets. Their "enemies" turned out to be completely different to what he had imagined, and they treated them like what they were - highly traumatized and shaken up boys. He also added - and I've heard that story from one other source, so either they were in the same unit, or it was common, or he heard it too and added it for flavour - that later they were asked to "sing some German songs, it annoys "the English". There was a little confusion, because they thought they had surrendered to "the English", and their conversational skills weren't exactly fluid. He said they grinned and said "we're not English. We're Scottish!" Humans among all the beasts war had turned men into on all sides. Ceud mìle taing!
Consequences Germany had done after WW2: Article 1, German Constitution (since 1948 unchanged) "Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it, shall be the duty of all state authority."
I was born 1985. My mom was born 1949, my Father 1924. My father and my maternal grandmother were Nazi's through and through, and I cut contact with them as soon as I could. I moved 500km away from both of them (with my mom, who didn't wanted anything to do with them anymore either) when I was 18 (and thus my father had no chance of getting any visiting rights, which was our concern back then). My father fought in the war, my grandmother had a child with a french soldier (my aunt), which could've landed her and her family into a concentration camp - but she still thought dreamily back to the Nazi regime until her death. Both of them would've never admitted that out loud of course, but for some slight remarks and the whole lot of Nazi stuff we found when we cleared the house after my father's death. Both of them have died by now and the world's better for it. Both were also very abusive parents, so doubly good that they're gone. My mother's paternal family however were refugees during the war, so called "Sudetendeutsche", Germans who lived in the Czech Republik, but were considered German citizens, and thus able to vote. In the elections of 1938, 97,32% of them voted for the NSDAP, the Nazi Party, and 17,34% joined the Nazi Party (compared to 7,85% average in Nazi Germany). They also were part of a lot Nazi bureaucracy, joining the Gestapo (secret police force) and similar institutions. When the Czechoslovak State was restored, the Government thus quickly expelled the majority of ethnic Germans, about 3 million, and obviously weren't gently in this approach (to say it youth friendly). There were atrocities committed, understandably, but it also hit a lot of innocent people, and of course everyone claims to be one of them. Personally, I don't know the extent to what happened within my family line or the sides they stood on, except that the one still alive from this original family tree of refugees, an uncle of my mom, was born later in Germany, after the war, and is a very kind man. My mom's father, according to her, helped a lot of people flee, and thus was the only one of the family who didn't ended up in Bavaria in the end, but Hessen. He apparently witnessed a lot of cruelties and wasn't the kindest person, he died early due to cancer, I never met him. Now that this family history is out of the way... When I was in school, history classes were the worst of all. The first year we learned the most basic knowledge about ancient Greece and Egypt, and then our teacher got sick and we didn't had history classes for the rest of the year. My next history teacher was a very monotone teacher, who reeked of cold cigarette smoke (it literally was unbearable without opening a window) and talked you to sleep. He had an approach to "be quiet so those who want to listen can listen and otherwise I don't care what you do in class", which meant that no one really payed attention. (I tried. It was... hard). We never had a trip to a WWII memorial, sadly, and aside from a quick dip into the 30-year war, we only had one topic in class: World War II. And at that point, we were all fed up by the topic. My generation was of the mood that "It's not our fault, we weren't born into that time, and this could never be repeated, so please stop talking about it non-stop." (oh how wrong we were). It backfired in a way that many "rebels" used the forbidden Swastika simply to anger people. In my case, I was the one bullied in class, and one time during Carneval season, the boys (who didn't bullied me usually) had a can of spray-on hair-dye with them. I asked for some color in my hair and later found out that they pranked me by painting a swastika on my hair. Thankfully I had it bound up so I could diffuse it by opening my hair up, but this resulted in huge trouble for them (our religion/latin teacher was NOT amused) and many tears on my end. The way home I felt ashamed to the core, because despite everyone telling me that it wasn't visible anymore, I feared someone could recognize it and think of me wrongly. The most knowledge I collected over WWII in the end was way after school, when I was mature enough to really understand the topic and interested enough to learn the details. If you want to watch a great movie about WWII and how it's taught in schools, and what could happen, check out "the wave". It's originally a US movie, but it got a modern German remake that's quite good as well (bit over the top at the end maybe).
Some German Films about WWII: Das Boot (1980) Der Untergang (2004) Die Brücke (1959) Stalingrad (1992) 08/15 (1954) which is not about the war but about the prussian Military Drill, and excludes the aspect of the Nazis. I chose some films over the last decades, done by Producers who faced the Naziregime as adults Up to peopel whose parensts we're Born after WWII.
My grandfather fled germany to enlist in the french foreign legion and fought against Nazi-Germans in Africa, because he wanted to protect his fellow Germans from a awful Regime. After the war he came back and married his wife (then girlfriend). He had to temporarily leave her to fight and don't get her and her family in trouble for not joining the German Army).
My grandparents generation were teenagers and young adults during the end of the war. Bit the storie they told me while they were still alive that make me most proud of my family in retrospect, ar their strong effort in how they managed to evade military service not just for them but for all their neighbours (we were farmers) and also the fact that they were active smugglers. In that they protected wanted groups, mostly Jews but also others by first sheltering them on their property and then smuggling them through the surroundings woods and swamps over the borders to the Netherlands when that was still an option. My grandmother and sister as young teenagers made some of those frankly life-threatening runs, saving dozens of people
My mother was born in 1926. So she was 7 years old when the Naz!s came up and 18 years old when the war was over. When I was 16 or 18 I asked my mother why nobody knew about the Holocaust at that time. To my surprise, however, my mother explained: "Of course you knew that. At least everyone who could think. All my Jewish classmates disappeared one after the other. It was clear that not all of them had emigrated. That Jews were actually being systematically murdered, maybe we didn't know. But we knew something terrible was going to happen." I just want to add that my mother was an impressive, tolerant and great woman.
Top 3 German War Movies: 1. Das Boot (Movie based on a book by the same title. It's about a German WW2 submarine on patrol in the Atlantik. Frankly, it may even be the best navy war movie ever - not only German) 2. Die Brücke (Be sure you watch the 1950's version and not the rather recent one. The latter is crap. The movie itself is about a group of Hitler-Youth members in 1945, who are ordered to defend a small bridge in a small town) 3. Stalingrad (Well, the title say it all, ain't it?) The space between 1 and 2 is very small. 3 is debatable. There are more good German war movies on more or less the same level of quality. My Families WW2 history? Well, the father of my mother fell on the eastern front. My other grandfather was a firm believer in the Nazi regime and volunteered for the Kriegsmarine (German Navy). He served the war on cruiser "Nürnberg" and spend most of his time at anchor in Norway. He therefore was rather isolated regarding information and always told me, that he didn't knew anything about the atrocities commited by the regime until the war was over. He actually is one of the few believably making such a statement. Though, I always wondered why he never questioned the sudden disappearance of the Jewish population in his home city. He said, that they were told Jews were moved to Palestine. Well, ok, even if that would have been true, would it have been O.K.? So, I am convinced that deep down inside he knew something not right did happen. He just never allowed himself to give in into this thought. On the other hand, he did almost slap me in the face, when I told him about my idea to join the German Bundeswehr (German Army). Let me put it this way > He didn't believe in military anymore and convinced me not to go this route. I also had an uncle who was conscripted into the "Waffen-SS" at the age of 17. It happened in 1944 and he did partake and was taken prisoner in the "battle for Normandy". He was a kid and brainwashed by the system when he joined. He told us (actually, he even wrote a little biography about his war times and the time in captivity), he was never happier, when he was put on the front line...until his first battle. After his "baptism of fire" his world collapsed. By growing experience on the front and by stories of the few veterans still alive in his unit, he rather quickly came to the conclusion, that everything they were told in school was a lie. He got wounded a few weeks into the battle and captured. He than was brought to America, were he served on a farm somewhere in the south. The people were rather friendly to him and they even held contact for a few years, after being released. The experienced of his whole journey from Hitler-Youth to battle to captivity and back home change him forever and made him a strong believer in pacifism. Anyways, be aware of Germans answering questions about their grandparents in WW2. In my personal experience, they like to "let things look better than they were". E.g. I still have to meet a German, who honestly admits, that his own Grandfather was an SS volunteer, who did ethnic cleansing, or who has been a guard in a concentration camp. I guess you figure my point.
As for how my family remembers the time period 70+ years ago, I only have second-hand information, because my grandfather died before I was born and my grandmother when I was 7. A few stories I've heard include: - my 18-year-old grandmother fleeing from her home in what is now Poland in the back of a truck as the Red Army was advancing. Said Red Army was the exception to how the Allies are nowadays viewed as liberators, due to the widespread violence, looting and rape they brought with them, namely to Berlin. - before having to flee, the same grandmother was drafted into working as a nurse for a field medicine station, mentored by an older man who probably had some sort of rank in the military - because of this, on her escape, when she needed to cross the line guarded by American soldiers into the non-Soviet zone, she was able to take a medical vehicle and use what English she knew to convince the soldiers to let her through quickly because she supposedly had wounded in the back - my grandfather, a radio operator in the Luftwaffe (he chose that role because he didn't want to shoot, my mother tells me), escaping the Soviet-surrounded Stalingrad on the last plane that made it out in one piece - I know my grandfather wanted to become an aviation engineer, but they wouldn't let Germans do that work after the war, so he became an architect instead. He later built himself a house in southern France, where he went or was sent (idk which) after surviving Stalingrad - clearly having a love for the region because of that time spent there. - my great-grandmother telling my grandmother, whom she had a bad relationship with, that " 'you' will have to pay for this someday " in the context of a train taking people away, presumably to camps, making evident that even as it was happening people weren't blind. It's unclear however whether the great-grandmother meant 'you' as in 'the young generation' or 'you' as in 'perpetrators and their sympathizers', in either case implying my grandmother was part of that group. We don't really know my grandmother's views. She participated in the same youth groups as everyone else her age at the time did, but that can't be seen as evidence one way or the other, given the significant social pressure to conform. Also, her mother disapproved of them, which given their bad relationship could have driven her to associate more with those groups as an act of rebellion. According to my mother, there were at least a few strange ideas about how appearance supposedly corresponds to character (e.g. the dislike of those with monobrows) that were held by my grandmother; possibly leftovers of growing up in that time. - my grandmother's half-brother Fritz being drafted at 16 years old, months from the surrender in 1945, and ending up buried in a location unknown to us. That really solidified the senselessness of it all for me.
Regarding how I remember learning about WWII in school, one of the most vivid memories I have of that is in second grade Religion class. I don't remember the context - it was probably in relation to learning about Judaism - but the teacher told us about the White Rose student resistance movement and its leaders Sophie Scholl and her brother, and how they were killed for doing the right thing. I remember how I felt proud of their bravery and sad for their fate, and ended up drawing a little white rose. I was *six*, but it was important to hear. That's really the sort of starting attitude of all WWII education here. We acknowledge 100% who the bad guys were, and focus on what went wrong, what people did to resist (which helps to see what other options there were even back then!), and how the crimes committed can be prevented from reoccurring. It feels like every grade or two, history classes revisit that period of time; it's the biggest focus of our history education, and for good reason. However, the war as such isn't the focus, because where what battle happened and who won isn't important the way remembering victims and understanding how fascists rose to power is. Most of what I know about the timeline of the war beyond specific moments like the invasion of Poland, the bombing of London, Stalingrad, and D-Day, comes from English internet sources I've picked up over time.
Visiting Buchenwald certainly left an impression on me. The holocaust and the Nazis were the main subject in history class with (due to lack of time only) an overview of the GDR. The war itself was let out mostly with only the most relevant points. Only got the "full picture" on both world wars when i watched oversimplyfieds videos.
,,Die Welle” is in my opinion a great movie not particularly about ww2 but it’s about deindividualisation???? and how one opinion can spread and make a group do things they normally would not do. Hard to explain with my English skills. I actually don’t even know if there is an English translation
My grand grandpa (or whatever you call it you know my grandpas dad😂) fought on the eastern front. He actually lost his leg there and he didn’t talk about that time at all, I guess it was just too traumatizing
My great grandfather did not fight in the war since I think he was wounded (maybe from WW1 but idk exactly) my grandfather was born in the last year of the war so he obviously doesn't remember much but he still has 4 older brothers. The oldest was 16 years old in 1945 and ran away from home when it was clear he would have to fight a loosing war and managed to live in the woods until the war was over. I think my great uncle has told me that they also housed (jewish) refugees
I havelock admit, the focus on Nazi-Germany in classes at my time was too much and prevented me for the longest time in searching information about the roots, that has led to that Regime. By now I have found a lot of interest in the history of my country, by learning about the 19th century in Europe, with audiobooks like „The sleepwalkers“ and other works about that time.
There is a very very good german movie from 2004 named "Der Untergang" (english title: downfall) which describes the last days in H!tler's Führer bunker in Berlin. Great actors, unique film. Think about whether you might do a reaction to it.
My grandfathers on both sides fought in the war. My grandfather on my mothers side was a prisoner of war by the british and he died a year before i was born. My grandfather on my fathers side was seriously wounded (several shots in the shoulder) and was left for dead on the field ( i learned about that years after he had died). Obviously he survived but he couldn't use his shoulder/arm properly for the rest of his life. He died when i was ten and i remember the big whole he had in his shoulder. I always wanted to hear "war story's" (even back then i was interested in history) , but he never told me the cruel truth about the war. He said that he had to care for the horses (as a girl i loved horses), he didn't tell me anything about battles or dead people... In school i remember talking and learning about the war for years. I never read "Mein Kampf" and i am absolutly not interested to read it. I had to read "Andorra " in school but i can't remember anything about this book ( it's more than 30 years since😅). So i can confirm that WWII was a big topic when i was still in school. And i didn't like learning about this war for years and years. There is so much more history that i was (and still am) interested in.
I think the difference starts with "What did you learn about WW II?". - Germans usually would not pose such a question, but rather ask: "What did you learn about the 3rd Reich?", "Waht did you learn about the Nazi times?", "What did you learn about the Holocaust?". The war in itself is not so muh the focus. It isonly one among other aspects of German National Socialism. What - for example - is disccussed a lot on international palttforms,. but nearly irrelevant and rarley spoken about in Germany, is, how the war itself went on, what fights and eweapons were used, by who, etc. Evrybody knows Stalingrad was pure horror for German soldiers and the turning point. Yes, someone might mention Ernst Rommel, now and then. However, usually people interested in this period of German history would nearly never show much interest for the military aspects of the war. It is a non topic. Totally irrelevant in comparison of so many things to learn about.
By what I can remember that was even the case here in the Netherlands. We were taught more about the ideologies than about the battles. The heroes of the war, were not the people who stood out for battle prowess, but the ones who liberated people and took care of the return of human conditions. I don't know what is being taught these days.
@@KeesBoons I have not known this. But… it is good to hear. For, in my view, this is what really should matter, not who was better in killing the others!
13:58 If anyone expressed such a sentiment, I think their peers would have shunned them and teachers have had some choice words with them. Parents would have been informed, leading to a shitstorm at home. It's unthinkable, here, at least to me. Never saw anyone even try to do that.
@Learning about WW2 in my school, I remember, that we learned too, how easily a whole nation/society can be brainwashed for xenophobic and fac1st1c ideologies, which can already starts in preschool, associations, school, fraternities/student leagues, parents and more. For example in my school in the past, we got books like "Die Welle" ("The Wave") about an experiment at a highschool, which was going too far for a better understanding and as a warning.
Back in my school time ( starting the 70’s ) we learned about the Greeks , the Roman’s , a little about Egypt and starting the middle and dark ages ( roughly Karl der Große ) than more or less 7 lessons about Weimarer republic than 1933-1945 was not so intensive like nowadays.
We learned all about the way from WWI through the Republic and how the nazi regime came to power in history class (Northrine-Westphalia). And I remember in elementary school we learned so much about the "old testament" and the jewish origin of that. I guess this was to understand other religious perspectives much more. Also correctly depicted here is that the progress of the war was not discussed in detail but included the unprovoked raids into neutral countries like Belgium, Netherlands etc.
Hello from Northern Germany. I was born in 1974 and the world war was almost the only topic in history class. That really annoyed me. As if Germany's history doesn't have much more to offer. I had to learn everything myself later. ... Moin aus Norddeutschland. Ich bin 1974 geboren und im Geschichtsunterricht war der Weltkrieg fast das einzige Thema. Das hat mich tierisch genervt. Als wenn Deutschlands Geschichte nicht viel mehr zu bieten hat. Musste ich alles selber lernen, später.
@@arnodobler1096 und mit dem Wissen der letzten Weltkriege jetzt zu erleben das ukrainische Nazis mit deutschen Waffen auf Russen schießen kotzt mich riiichtig an!!! ... and with the knowledge of the last world wars now to experience the Ukrainian Nazis shooting at Russians with German weapons really pisses me off!!!
We did WW2 in the second semester of twelth class, age 18 to 19 from September 83 until Ende of January 1984.. it was the main topic for a whole semester, so more or less 4 to 5 months. This even included watching documentaries. I remember that we intensively learned about how Hitler could happen, so about the last 2 to 3 years of the Weimar Republik. And later on about the Holocoust intensively and not so much about battles and the war going forth and then backwards for Germany. And we did the Nuremberg trials and discussed if Entnazifizierung really happened full force and why it was still regarded as a defeat instead of being grateful that it changed for the better afterwards. It remains to mulitlevel history for all, germans, polish, jewish, russian, french, etc... as my family derives from the east on both sides, being lucky of getting rid of Hitler had the price of loosing their home. they all became refugees with nothing more than what they could carry. So the personal destiny war in a contrast to the knowing that - thank god - it was over. Germans who derived from the western aereas might have a different approach. Being bombed but maybe not lossing real estate. So those 6 months covered everything form world economic crisis in 1929 til the foundation of the FRG in 1949. I can not complain at all about no having learned nothing or not enough. the last short semester was not very extensively the post 1949 history and the foundation of the EU or EC. Before we had extensevily covered the treaty of Versailles and the Weimarer Republik with all it's riots and inflation etc. So especially German history was covered from 1848 til 1929 before that. Looking back we didn't learn nothing or not much about German colonies and about other European countries 19th and 20th centuries history.
I was born in 1998, i was taught about this time in school in every subject and i hated it. Don't get me wrong it's important to learn about, but you learn about it in history, german, english, religion, politics, geography, art, music, chemistry and biology. It was everywhere. I don't know why i didn't Like it in school, almost every summer holiday we visited two German regions and also any museums and historic sites there. Again I think it's very important to learn about it, so such a thing never happens again. Also there have to be people to learn all this and still think it is nice, because we are having a rise of a political right wing again. Or maybe they Just don't think too hard on the things they are saying.
All we did in religion lesson was to watch movies about WW2, I've probably seen them all😅. Best thing is that we had history lesson directly afterwards with just this topic. I never needed to learn for a test😆.
It's interesting how casually you say we're "one of the greatest countries" and my reflexive reaction is to feel uncomfortable, despite how it's just true that many inventions and discoveries were made by Germans. Patriotism and nationalism have been associated with atrocity here so heavily that it's hard for us to view them as harmless. That's also a reason you rarely see the German flag except on official buildings and during international football, where this social taboo doesn't really apply. Instead, Germans tend to feel proud of their region's history and unique features, like cuisine, holidays, culture and whatnot. The federal states are so different from each other you can really tell that they haven't been the same nation for long yet, on a grand European history scale. It's reminiscent of the USA in a way, how people speaking the same language (the thing that caused us to become one nation in the first place!) can be so diverse.
I would like to add that it isn't mentioned that East Germany (under Soviet rule) never underwent denazification which shows today in a higher acceptance of (neo-)nazi ideology in the new states. Only recently the AfD (Alternative für Deutschland/Alternative for Germany, a far-right party) has managed to get a mayor and a county administrator elected in former East Germany for the first time. Of course, not everyone in the East is right-wing, probably not even a majority. Those elections were probably mostly driven by discontent with the major parties, moreso than by a majority desire for far-right politics.
I already lived in France, and must say that they approached it in a very neutral way. But I had my visit of Auschwitz on my own later. It was an horrible experience, I tell you.
im half english and half german but was born and brought up in germany the visite of the concentration camp happens in the last year of school so with 16 not before. before i think kids cant handle this. it was realy hard to see this all and we (so my class mades and me) haven taken this realy serious. Mein Kampf we dont have read this in school because it is forbiden normaly we have readed instead a book called die welle or the wave in english its a book about a school class who makes in history lesson a experiment about this time its realy shocking they even have put movie out about the book in the 2000s but the movie is in german and was brought out after my time in school. we had to watch in school movies like schindlers list etc. i personal would wish they not only teach the bad storys even the good ones what shows that some germans in this time has fight against the reagime. l mean yes they show us schindlers list but there are more storys out like his for example the story from franz stiegler and charley brown i have heard about this story from a music band who makes videos and songs from real history events the band is calles sabaton and the song is no bullets fly watch the animated version here on youtube and you see the story from them. its so heard broken and a good story i was crying. this should teached in school too.
Honestly, the Soviet Union/Russia did and still does some f-ed up things too. Stalin and his concentration camps (or as they are more commonly known as: Gulags) killed a hell of a lot more people than the Nazis and the Japanese combined, not to mention that most of the Gulags still are up and running while the Germans turned theirs into reminders to never let something like that happen again - it's a topic you rarely hear about, a fact no-one likes to talk about because, well.. a) they have to do something about it after acknowledging its existance and b) History is written by the victors.
Proud?! Sick ones,underdogs & disturbed may be - but in history lessons you're also seeing this mountains of dead,dread bodies. So ,if you're inspired by this - there are some deeper problems going on.
And although we had this stuff in school really often someone as Hubert "hubsi" Aiwanger is still in charge and the AfD is stronger than ever. It is thought that about 20% sympathize with extreme right and wish "for another Hitler that finally brings stuff back in order"... But they hid in bushes because they were called out whenever they said something outside a bar "am Stammtisch". But today it is fine again and I predict that we have a similar situation 100years later again. I can't eat enough to vomit as much as I want.
At the time we visited dachau at school i was to young to understand the concepts of nationalism, antisemetism or racism, it was just a day you had not to sit on your ass and listen to teachers telling you things.
the unlikeliness of displaying the german flag doesn't have to do that much with the third reich. on the one hand it's the symbol of the _republic_ and as such quite abstract and not really that great as a symbol for personal identity - esp. in germany or amongst other germans. what would be the point of sheepishly waving around a symbol to remind ourselves, we live in the same country? on the other hand it might be seen as a symbol for the entirety of all german _people_ (incl. bavarians and even saxons), but since we are still 'quite tribal' including people form 'different tribes' (esp. those looked down upon) isn't really that encouraging. i guess, there are a bunch of proud scotsmen or northern-irish catholics not too eager to wave around the union jack as well - which doesn't necessarily make them unpatriotic. so, using the black-red-gold mostly makes sense when being around people from different countries (esp. in competitive settings like international sport events), because only then it makes sense to refer to our nationality. the thing about the third reich in history lessons is somewhat misleading. history is generally speaking taught in a chronological order: starting from prehistoric times and ending in the 20th century. that means that students are way younger, when they learn about antiquity or the middle ages, then they are when learning about the third reich. and since older students can comprehend complex topics better, the later eras are learned in more detail. also it's often the last thing people remember from history classes when leaving school, whereas they might have already forgotten about what they learned in 5th grade. so, history lessons often _appear_ to focus so much more on the third reich, whereas in reality it's a simple matter of age and memory.
Did you know there was a Soviet Republic of Bavaria at one point in history? It lasted about a month, and it had it all, including revolution and political assassinations. It all happened between the end of imperialism and the forming of the Weimar republic. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic
Some film you asked for: Das Boot, Stalingrad, Die Blechtrommel, Schindlers List, Die Brücke, Der Untergang, Stauffenberg, Im Westen nichts neues and a lot older ones like Des Teufels General
The USA's Pledge of Allegiance leaves a very dirty taste in our mouths as well. When I first heard about it, I couldn't believe this was happening. Over the years I've learned that it's not the only crazy thing about nationalism in the USA.
There is a lot of wrongs with the USA these days.Their agressive politics are really worrying to the whole World.
yes, I even question how it is legal, since 1A and all
While I agree that the pledge of allegiance might be misused, it is vital to understand where it came from. You can't just look through your "German glasses" (durch die deutsche Brille) and not weigh and see the history of other countries. The USA was a country that was made of immigrants from all over the world. At that time it seemed necessary to educate them in "we are one" and I understand the need. Also, there is nothing "nationalistic" about the pledge of allegiance itself. It really is inward looking to create a nation when nationalist fervor was rampant around the world.
@@leisen9679 Forcing people to pledge allegiance as children is still indoctrination into nationalism, which is pretty problematic
When I (German) was 16 my class trip (it was 1 week long) had one day where we went to a concentration camp. 2 students had to do a presentation and that was mandatory for us. It was one experience I'll never forget. Especially being there with my classmates.
Before going we wondered how people in particular the "clowns" would behave. But once we arrived everyone was silence and no-one was talking. We listened to the presentation and then we could decide to go into the gas chambers and look around ourselves. I think we were there for at least 3 hours and everyone was silent and most shed some tears. Some talked silently about their family history.
The rest of the day we went to a museum that used to be a prison and at the end we watched a movie about the Geschwister Scholl (Scholl siblings).
My great grandparents fought on both sides. My British great grandfather died in war (his plane was shot) and I always felt bad being German or talking German infront of my great Grandmother. At her funeral most older people did not want to talk to me and called me N... .
My other great grandfather and his son also died. My grandfather never talked about the war as he was a kid loosing his father. My mom told me that an uncle came home with PTSD (which noone knew back then) and that he never talked to anyone after that.
My German grandmothers side lived on a farm and they had war prisoners working at the farm. Not sure how they treated them but their family still sometimes visit the farm.
The grandfather of my boyfriend was my best source. He had Alzheimer's so the only thing he could remember was the war time. He did not go to war as he was too young but he was in the boy camps. He loved talking about it as this was the best time in his life. Having only boys all together and learning how to fish etc. So it was kind of uncomfortable hearing about it and making the (illegal) Hitler greeting. But now I understand that they got the kids with those fun activities
I think my visist was pretty much what peter described... we understood the seriousness of the history and what we are being "taught" - I thin we even went into a gas chamber ("shower")... in the end is wasn't soul crushing. Still, it defenitely helped to better understand what was going on back then ... (unfortunately I can't tell anymore at what age we visited the camp... 16 sounds about right as stated above)
Feli from Germany made a great video about that topic! Well worth checking out.
The only family story I have heard about that time was how towards the end of the war the advancing americans used the hill right next to my grandmother's house to position their artillery to fire into a small town in the area that refused to surrender. They were literally firing over their heads so of course she was scared. But the soldiers themselves were very kind, offering the kids chocolate and chewing gum (something they hadn't seen before) however her mother told my grandma to stay away from the soldiers and not accept any gifts.
Your grandma was right. The US let starve many mio. of Germans to death. So rape was not necessary for the GIs, like the Siviets did it. It is easy to get sex from hungry german girls.
When i was i Auschwitz i heard a story of a survier u had to through bucjet over bucket of ash in the winter so the Soilders and officers do not slip over the ice. Later he watched the burning of Eichmann and Rekognized that one person only leaves a hand of ash when burned in crematorium. And so he realized what he did every winter morning...
His comment about shared responsibility, at least to me, reflects a common misunderstanding: We are not responsible for what happened back then. We are responsible for it not happening again. And so are you, and basically everyone else on this earth.
We went to a concentration camp in 9th grade and I was really worried that the class clowns would joke around or something but when we were there EVERYONE was silent and respectful. We went to Strasbourg after that because it was near and we were given time to go shopping and stuff. No one was in the mood for shopping that day
I still remember having the same thoughts. The drive their was loud and noisy. People were cracking jokes. But on our way back the whole bus was quiet, not a word was said.
In school we discussed WW2 in history but also in German language to find out the rhetorical figures e.g. Göbbels used. I found that very helpful to identify totalitarian language later on.
I was in Dachau 30 years ago, in the Holocaust Memorial concentration camp. A day I will never forget.😢
Same here,
Greetings from another German
@@fliwatuett 👍🙋♂️
Yes, my grandmother was about 12 when the war was going on. She told me once that they saw 1-2 years before the war that a jewish man was put a rope around him (idk if foot or neck) and being pulled by a horse cart on the floor to death through the city. She, her mother and all people around were frozen of fear and shock. Anyone who said something against it would be on the trial or would have the same fate. I think the instinct to live and the fear was too extreme to say a word. After war started, my grandfather went to war because he had to (or you get killed for treason instead) and captured by russian soldiers (after war too). We never ever heard of him again, we think they killed him. And no, i don't think kids in the younger grades would be inspired in any way by this. Most of them are either sad and shocked or too little interested in history class in that age.
My Movie suggestions are "Die Brücke" (1959), "Stalingrad" (1993) and "Schindlers Liste" (1993).
Also "Das Boot"
I am 38. We visited KZ Dachau at my peek puberty. We wanted to have a fun day's out with the class, and we were ready to make fun of it. It's humanly impossible to do that, though. Even we learned that the hard way. It's tough. Not like in a harmful way though, I am thankful. I went to Auschwitz concentration camp as an adult. Just in a phase of my life where I needed some reality checks. These places teach you how pretty and valuable life is
The Germans outside of the CCs looked not different from the people inside. During the last half year of the war all railroads were destroyed by fighterbombers. So there was no possebility anymore to transport supplies.
I went to visit Auschwitz concentration camp as a 16 year old. This experience is haunting me still 30 years later.
My grandfather was forced to go to war and was captured by Soviet soldiers. But they didn't want this war either so they decided to sit it out together, shared their meals with the German captives, taught each other the languages etc. My grandfather always spoke well of the Soviets and was really happy when I decided to learn Russian as my third foreign language at school ❤
Most of the statements made in this video are pretty much confirmed by the survey on this subject that Feli From Germany conducted on her channel
Here is her video:
ua-cam.com/video/DMNJk1LNV0w/v-deo.html
The current case of Aiwanger shows sadly, that this is by no means shared by all Germans - and I know these people like him. When I went to school, they were everywhere and I suppose they are still here today.
My grandmother often talked about the bombing raids. The holocaust they already noticed that people they didn't like were being picked up and disappearing more and more often, that things weren't going well for them and that some didn't survive, they could imagine, but they didn't realize the full extent of these crimes.
On the other hand, if you have to regularly salvage burned bodies from rubble, you're toughened up a bit too, so rumors of a few more murders aren't such a highlight.
I didn't get to know my grandfathers anymore. One was a welder on the home front, a trade unionist and a social democrat. He was scared enough of the Nazis himself.
The other was in Russia. But he said almost nothing. All we know is that he fought in some swamps with a light horse-drawn ATgun. His family was resettled from Basarabia to Poland and later had to flee from there on foot, which some of the family did not survive. I know nothing about his politic opinion. I met several people from the Wehrmacht and a few people from the Waffen SS. At that time there were also many old men with missing limbs walking around here. This was not an unfamiliar sight in that time.
I remember visiting Buchenwald well. These trips are not undertaken before higher education (eg. once the students are 15-18 years old), so the trip was taken seriously from our students. Anything else would have probably incurred a hefty penalty from the teacher anyhow. Germans ought to respect these sites, no matter how young they are. It is usually people from abroad that don't do so, and that's a terrible shame.
From my personal point of view, the history is actually not taught well enough - in Bavaria anyhow. You do learn alot, but there is so much left out in my opinion. A point to not leave out too: It challenges the national pride. Many, especially older Germans, have little to no pride in being German. The rather recent resurrection of national pride and beliefs in younger Germans is something I have been observing myself. Not a bad thing by default anyway.
31 y.o. German here.
I can quite confirm what was said in this video.
On my way to the Abitur ( A-Level, for Brits) we were taught a LOT about this period in 9th & 10th grade.
We´ve read Brecht, we saw the movie adaption of "The boy in the striped pyjamas" & "the reader" and we discussed it for several lessons.
For my Abitur I´ve had Geschichte Leistungskurs (History major), so I´ve been taught even more about nazi germany.
I´ve been to Buchenwald with my history-major class & it was a humbling and kind of depressing sight, altough in Buchenwald there´s nothing much to see (no barracks remaining, only outlines...).
We´ve visited a Museum and got insight on actual WWII files and letters of soldiers (sometimes heartbreaking to read)...
I did a graded presentation on the SA for class, ...
All under the premise: "this must never happen again!"
And I truly think, that it´s good that way.
One of my grandmothers once said she was always scared to say the wrong thing esp. after having her first child and knowing they would take it away from her if she would have been out of line just once
I'm 54 and we visited KZ Mauthausen (in Austria) when we were all 14 or 15. A bus full of young children, you can imagine the noise. On our way back, all was silent. So silent that at some point, the bus driver turned the radio on. Hearing our contemporary songs, we slowly returned to the 1980s.
My grandpa came back from Russia with only one leg and splinters in his back and spine that slowly killed him. He died when I was only five, and he must have suffered incredible pain. My grandma later told me that during his final weeks, he basically lived on morphine and beer.
At least I have it official that he wasn't a Nazi. Typed in English by the American authorities, ironically on the back of some Nazi form they cut in half. Must have been some problem with their paper supply.
for movie recommendations, I would actually recommend a miniseries: Our Mothers, Our Fathers
The one movie you want to see is Die Brücke (The Bridge, 1959), the story of schoolmates joining or being forced into the Wehrmacht defending their hometown’s bridge. This movie has everything: patriotism, fatalism, madness of war, delusion and defeat. Very moving and enlightening.
landmark movie
Personally, I think a sense of collective responsibility to ensure history doesn't repeat itself is a good thing. More nations and people should adopt it and be aware that to look away means complicity. I appreciate the way our schooling emphasizes this need for initiative.
WW2 movies from Germany that are worth a watch:
Der Untergang (the downfall depicting the final days in the Führer's bunker),
a TV series Unsere Mütter unsere Väter (our mothers our fathers, depicting the lifes of ordinary people from the beginnings to the end of the war),
Stalingrad (showing the perspective of the ordinary Landser foot soldier in the madness of war)
Die Brücke (the bridge, following a bunch of HJ boys aged 14 that were drafted right out of school into the Volkssturm (the Nazi equivalent to the traditional German last stand "Landsturm" in which every man capable of holding a weapon is send to fight to the death) and send to defend a small insignificant bridge somewhere in nowhere and face off advancing American tanks, focusing on the senselessness, indoctrination of the generation that grew up in the third Reich and the disregard for human life by the system)
and last but definitely not least: Das Boot (following a German U-Boot (submarine) and its crew, one of the best war movies ever created
A federal schoolsystem makes no sense at all. It´s just a big pain in the arse...🥴
My Grandfather was only 16 years old when he was sent to the western front. He was really no fan of war at all. Our family had also to give all horses to the army.
I was on a "Anne-Frank-Gesamtschule", or a school named after famous holocaust victim Anne Frank. As you can imagine, we were very thorough in our education about WW2 and it’s many horrors - aside from history class, where it’s covered extensively, it’s a focus in almost every single other subject (aside from stuff like sports obvsl.) there are project weeks, movies, books, you make visits to the Anne Frank house in the Netherlands, if at all possible you visit a concentration camp, you have to write essays or presentations about the "Stolpersteine“ and other monuments of remembrance, etc. Our education system isn’t perfect, but I’d say we cover the Holocaust and the nazi regime very well, with loads of different factors. It’s not hidden or censored, as many aspects of slavery in the US for example
To put the threat of a repeat, no matter how minor, into a corresponding view: Germany had been deemed the initiator of WW1 which was technically not correct, with the first declaration of war coming from Austria. BUT Germany was the biggest enabler of WW1 by giving carte blanche to Austria, which then caused all of the toppling of dominos of successive declarations of war on all involved. That Germany was saddled with an absolutely insane amount of reparations while technically no foreign soldier had set foot on German territory at the German capitulation was all it took to establish the erroneous Dolchstoßlegende, the Stab in the Back legend. This resulted in extremist movements inside the newly formed democracy splintering into ever more radical parties.
Fast forward, rise of Nazis and end of WW2. Many Germans feared the complete dissolution of Germany and being integrated into the respective surrounding countries. After the extent of atrocities that had been committed became full public knowledge even some Germans reluctantly agreed that this may have been for the best. But most knew, deep down, if ANYTHING, no matter how minor, even approaching a similar outcome ever were to originate from Germany again, we wouldn't be given a third chance. Germany would be forcibly dissected and partitioned into other countries, and any possibility of sovereignty would be dead and gone forever. With the Sword of Damocles dangling over your head you better wise up and get your act together.
That it worked out so well in the end was probably a pleasant surprise for Germany as well.
Now we've trained more than three generations of Germans at seeking a peaceful, economic resolution to conflicts that it becomes difficult to notice when a military support of a country defending itsself against an aggressor would be more appropriate (Ukraine, cough). We are still deathly afraid of taking even baby steps towards any kind of militarism, be it as defensive as possible, because it has been inscribed into the later articles of our constitution: "Von deutschem Boden darf nie wieder Gewalt ausgehen." / "Never again may violence originate from German soil."
Edit: one of the best, if not THE best German anti-war movies is "Das Boot " dealing with a German submarine, its crew, and their horrible experiences during WW2. Incidentally it is also lauded as the most accurate submarine movie ever made. It is very loosely based on a true incident, and a fictional book written by one of the crew members. It definitely doesn't glorify Nazis, yet I will bet nearly anything that you will root so hard for the crew at least once. Highly recommend it. Try finding the OV with subtitles.
Both my grandfathers were in the German army. For one, I know little, just that he was in the Navy, and actually stationed in Crimea. The other was in a reconnaissance group., on the eastern front. He was in Stalingrad. When Russian troops started encircling-the city, he found a bicycle and actually deserted. He rode all the way back to Germany (I was told that it took him a year, also that Russians actually gave him food). He reunited with his wife who had to flee with the kids from the (then) eastern regions of Germany when the Russians came. My dad was born in a place that is Poland today. He actually returned there by curiosity.
If you are interested in German war movies, I can recommend "Das Boot" and "Downfall" (Der Untergang). Be warned though, these are heavy films.
14:00 never have I heard someone being proud of it
It actuality surprised me how well Simon spoke about this, as ge is not always correct in his videos 😅
Usually i would refer you to Feli's post about this topic: ua-cam.com/video/DMNJk1LNV0w/v-deo.html
I was in school in Germany during the 70s and 80s, i never had a school trip to a camp, but we did indeed analyze some literature regarding the holocaust "Damals war es Friedrich", not in history class, but in German class.
In Geography i hwd a teacher that made us show the borders of Germany, but there was always a trick question:
It made a difference if he asked us toxhow the borders of Germany, or the federal republic...
Meaning he told us to include the territory from before WW2, that is no longer Germany... go figure.
I also agree with what Simon mentioned about the lack of teaching about militarily sucess and battles ,that is totally glossed over, at least when i was in school.
My grandparents suffered through the war, but never talked about it much.
I would have a warning, though: the constant pictures of showing footage of atrocities may desensitize some.
My grandma was still a young child when the war was raging and she sometimes told me about the bomb alarms that would go off in the middle of the night and how she would always wait on the stairs for her beloved cat, which without she refused to get into the bunker under their house.
Later she told me how she and her siblings had to steal food from their neighbors to have something to eat and about the first time they all saw a black man. He was on a market and handed out oranges to the hungry kids but my grandma and her siblings were so scared that they ran home and the man followed them to give them the oranges, but her father saw the guy following them, opened the door to let the kids in and stood in front of them to face the stranger and ask him what he wanted from the kids. After some explaining I think he let the kids get a few oranges from the man.
I just now remembered this story’s.
Good German War Movies: Das Boot, Der Untergang and Stalingrad. Good Foreign Movies: Schindlers List and 'Come and See'
I'm 40 (All my grandparents were small children during that time. Their parents were going along with the regime, their fathers didn't survive the war.) and I never visited a concentration camp. But the 3. Reich was a big subject in school. It was talked about not just in history class but also in German literature, in art and music and some more in social studies. It was a lot. Still I went and learned more when I was older. Now my kid is growing up and I dread telling her all this.
Lately the war diary of Erich Kästner was published. He is a well liked writer mostly known for his children's books. He stayed in Germany even though he was critical and the Nazis burned his books and banned him from writing. His diary now shows that he was actually cheering on the war efforts and playing down what might be happening to the Jews. That's a real blow.
"Mein Kampf" by Adolf Hitler wasn't accessible publicly in Germany for many years. That has changed only rescently a couple of years ago. The state o Bavaria was owner of the copyright, but refused to print it. Distribution of the book would have been a copyright infringement. Hence the book wasn't available in Germany.
As a consequence, a couple of more or less abrigded or "cleaned" versions were available. If you really wanted to get a copy of it you could order it from the USA and other countries which didn't mind it being printed and sold.
There were a couple of collections of texts from that era, the most notable one being possibly Walther Hofer "Der Nationalsozialismus - Dokumente 1933 - 1945". It contains excerpts from "Mein Kampf" too.
"Mein Kampf" is predominantly horrible to read. Most of the Nazi propaganda too. For most people today it's really hard to understand how that movement could become popular at all. And maybe that's the first misunderstanding about the Nazis. That they were allowed to grab power didn't necessarily mean that every German was convinced of their ideology. In fact the Nazi party, the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei), was helped at getting into government by another far right conservative party, the DNVP (Deutschnationale Volkspartei), - led by the press tycoon Alfred Hugenberg. He was a fierce nationalist and antisemitic propagandist. He profited from the dire economic situation by blaming democratic polticians and parties in his publications for the misery of the years after the crash and economic crisis in the late 1920ies and early 1930ies. There was extremely high unemployment and particularly middle class people were losing their wealth due to inflation. Hence the economic and political situation was the perfect basis for political extremists, both on the right and the left, to gain more and more support from people becoming increasingly desperate and angry.
Many copies of "Mein Kampf" have been printed, sold and distributed then. However hardly anyone has actually read it - understandably. And possibly many thought they'd know enough by listening to Hilter's public speeches.However, at that time already, there were a few people regretting that hardly anyone had read what Hitler was aiming for and what "Mein Kampf" was revealing about Hitler himself. It could have been a serious warning for some at least.
I think that another aspect of that time is ignored too often: the rise of communism after the Bolshevic Revolution in Russia in 1917. During the 1920ies waves of emigrants from Russia and reports of violent persecution of political opponents and the churches had swept Europe causing a panic of its own. As a result political movements on the right were trying to advertise themselves as the only effective protectors against a communist revolution in their countries - often successfully while democracy was losing, eg in Austria, Italy, Spain.
My grandfather, my mother's father, had very vivid memories of that time.
How much time do you have? ;-) I'll answer your question about war movies first, b/c it's the fastest one: I recommend to get your hands on a trilogy titled "08/15", and another movie called "Die Brücke" ('The Bridge' - but not the Swe/Den TV crime show ;-) Edit: oh, and yes, make sure to get the 1959-version... didn't know there was a remake. Never trust a remake.). There are more, but those two are the best ones to watch that come to my mind in an instant.
As for school education - I was in school when "Schindler's list" came out. We never visited a concentration camp, but they made it a compulsory trip, all pupils of a certain age (I think it was 10th or 11th grade and up) were required to take the bus to a larger city closeby where there was a cinema showing it on multiple screens, so several hundred pupils had to go there. About 20 of us refused to, and I was one of them, for two reasons: 1) we'd have to pay for it ourselves and I didn't have that money at that time, 2) and that was the more important reason, I did not want to watch that particular movie crammed in a cinema with some hundred other pupils with exactly the age and the attitude to crack into joking under stress - I knew most of them, and I didn't want that kind of experience to disturb the movie on me. Sooo, there we were - 20 of us. We had to appear in school (that I understood, they wanted to make sure we wouldn't enjoy our free time), we got locked into a classroom under the supervision of an RE teacher, an we were handed a work sheet of about 20 questions. Many of those questions were about what we had learned about 1933-45, all of them were designed to expose any anti-semitic or fascist leanings we might have. The last one was the one asking "why did you refuse to take part in this school trip?". We never got any feedback on what we had written, but no one was allowed to leave the room (except to go to the bathroom) until all questions were answered and the allotted time was over. Among us, we later talked about that, especially question #20. None of us didn't go for the reason they were screening for... almost all of us were leaning to the political left, that's the !anti!-fascist side - we were that rebellious age and some had thought they'd start to oppose following political orders. One of my school-friends critizised the commercial aspect and the presentation as a "Hollywood spectacle". So, they were looking for Nazis and found socialists, social democrats, anti-capitalists and the like. Realizing that, our group of 20 had a good laugh on them and the traumatizing experience changed into just an experience.
Some of my generation had parents born during the war (my mother was 2 years old. Her family had to flee from Prussia, and she vividly remembered being "verschüttet" (being in a partial collapse in a shelter when the house was hit by a bomb) as well as a train stopping, everyone getting off and hiding and being shot at by planes with machine guns). They wanted to take a ship from Danzig, but my granny had a bad feeling and turned into stubborn-mode, nearly got beaten by my granddad b/c he was in a panic as the ship seemed to be the last option to leave. That ship's name was the "Gustloff" - she suffered from survivor's guilt ever after. The family reached Berlin, and that was not a good place to be when the Russians "liberated" the city.
Considering some of the Prussian part of my family originated from France and had to flee from there as they were Hugenots, there wasn't much love for a regime who prosecuted people for their faith (or race). My great-grandfather was a teacher and a social democrat, the Nazis beat him up and he spent some time in a labour camp, but - probably because of the political bit - he survived. My granny once told me they were required to speak the Nazi greeting - but they changed it to "Drei Liter!" (which sounded similar enough, especially if you mumbled a bit).
My other grandfather was a border guard in Southern Germany. I was told he had read "Mein Kampf" and someone in the village he lived in must have heard him comment "that's not going to end well". He then apparently defined his duty to guard the border from potential enemies coming !into! Germany and didn't really care much about people crossing the border to get !out! of Germany - they were no threat, and if there's not threat you don't need a guard, right? Plus, he may have littered (i.e. "forgotten" his lunch-packet in the sacred German forest one time or another) on top of that. He was diagnosed an "insane person" and euthanized by the Nazis.
From a modern point of view, knowing about PTSD and stuff, I have NO idea how the survivors were able to rebuild. Maybe the key was to bury the memories. Working at a hospital, I once talked to a patient who still was of the "war generation". He asked if he could be given something strong so he could sleep. It's the memories that are coming back, he said, he had been driving a flame-panzer.
There's another story I was told by another patient I think you might like, and it's a chance to end this on a more positive note: He was a young man in a ditch in Northern Germany during the final phase of the war. The invasion was upon them, and so was the "Tommy" artillery. Finally, his captain had enough and decided to surrender. He said he was very scared, they all were, because they thought they might get shot the moment they walked out with their hands raised, or some time later (apparently that was a thing, despite any Geneva convention on POW-treatment). At the very least, they were convinced, they'd be treated like animals, brutalized, beaten, or what not. What actually happened was they were greeted with cheers when they walked out in surrender, and later on provided with rations and water, and even some sweets. Their "enemies" turned out to be completely different to what he had imagined, and they treated them like what they were - highly traumatized and shaken up boys. He also added - and I've heard that story from one other source, so either they were in the same unit, or it was common, or he heard it too and added it for flavour - that later they were asked to "sing some German songs, it annoys "the English". There was a little confusion, because they thought they had surrendered to "the English", and their conversational skills weren't exactly fluid. He said they grinned and said "we're not English. We're Scottish!" Humans among all the beasts war had turned men into on all sides. Ceud mìle taing!
Consequences Germany had done after WW2:
Article 1, German Constitution (since 1948 unchanged)
"Human dignity shall be inviolable.
To respect and protect it, shall be the duty of all state authority."
I was born 1985. My mom was born 1949, my Father 1924. My father and my maternal grandmother were Nazi's through and through, and I cut contact with them as soon as I could. I moved 500km away from both of them (with my mom, who didn't wanted anything to do with them anymore either) when I was 18 (and thus my father had no chance of getting any visiting rights, which was our concern back then).
My father fought in the war, my grandmother had a child with a french soldier (my aunt), which could've landed her and her family into a concentration camp - but she still thought dreamily back to the Nazi regime until her death. Both of them would've never admitted that out loud of course, but for some slight remarks and the whole lot of Nazi stuff we found when we cleared the house after my father's death. Both of them have died by now and the world's better for it. Both were also very abusive parents, so doubly good that they're gone.
My mother's paternal family however were refugees during the war, so called "Sudetendeutsche", Germans who lived in the Czech Republik, but were considered German citizens, and thus able to vote. In the elections of 1938, 97,32% of them voted for the NSDAP, the Nazi Party, and 17,34% joined the Nazi Party (compared to 7,85% average in Nazi Germany). They also were part of a lot Nazi bureaucracy, joining the Gestapo (secret police force) and similar institutions.
When the Czechoslovak State was restored, the Government thus quickly expelled the majority of ethnic Germans, about 3 million, and obviously weren't gently in this approach (to say it youth friendly). There were atrocities committed, understandably, but it also hit a lot of innocent people, and of course everyone claims to be one of them.
Personally, I don't know the extent to what happened within my family line or the sides they stood on, except that the one still alive from this original family tree of refugees, an uncle of my mom, was born later in Germany, after the war, and is a very kind man. My mom's father, according to her, helped a lot of people flee, and thus was the only one of the family who didn't ended up in Bavaria in the end, but Hessen. He apparently witnessed a lot of cruelties and wasn't the kindest person, he died early due to cancer, I never met him.
Now that this family history is out of the way...
When I was in school, history classes were the worst of all.
The first year we learned the most basic knowledge about ancient Greece and Egypt, and then our teacher got sick and we didn't had history classes for the rest of the year.
My next history teacher was a very monotone teacher, who reeked of cold cigarette smoke (it literally was unbearable without opening a window) and talked you to sleep. He had an approach to "be quiet so those who want to listen can listen and otherwise I don't care what you do in class", which meant that no one really payed attention. (I tried. It was... hard).
We never had a trip to a WWII memorial, sadly, and aside from a quick dip into the 30-year war, we only had one topic in class: World War II. And at that point, we were all fed up by the topic.
My generation was of the mood that "It's not our fault, we weren't born into that time, and this could never be repeated, so please stop talking about it non-stop." (oh how wrong we were).
It backfired in a way that many "rebels" used the forbidden Swastika simply to anger people. In my case, I was the one bullied in class, and one time during Carneval season, the boys (who didn't bullied me usually) had a can of spray-on hair-dye with them. I asked for some color in my hair and later found out that they pranked me by painting a swastika on my hair. Thankfully I had it bound up so I could diffuse it by opening my hair up, but this resulted in huge trouble for them (our religion/latin teacher was NOT amused) and many tears on my end. The way home I felt ashamed to the core, because despite everyone telling me that it wasn't visible anymore, I feared someone could recognize it and think of me wrongly.
The most knowledge I collected over WWII in the end was way after school, when I was mature enough to really understand the topic and interested enough to learn the details.
If you want to watch a great movie about WWII and how it's taught in schools, and what could happen, check out "the wave". It's originally a US movie, but it got a modern German remake that's quite good as well (bit over the top at the end maybe).
try "das boot" or "stalingrad"
Some German Films about WWII:
Das Boot (1980)
Der Untergang (2004)
Die Brücke (1959)
Stalingrad (1992)
08/15 (1954) which is not about the war but about the prussian Military Drill, and excludes the aspect of the Nazis.
I chose some films over the last decades, done by Producers who faced the Naziregime as adults Up to peopel whose parensts we're Born after WWII.
My grandfather fled germany to enlist in the french foreign legion and fought against Nazi-Germans in Africa, because he wanted to protect his fellow Germans from a awful Regime. After the war he came back and married his wife (then girlfriend). He had to temporarily leave her to fight and don't get her and her family in trouble for not joining the German Army).
I had nightmares for years.I think it's important as it can happen everywhere at any time.
German WW2 movies really worth watching: "Stalingrad" and "Das Boot". There are also reaction videos about these two here on UA-cam.
My grandparents generation were teenagers and young adults during the end of the war. Bit the storie they told me while they were still alive that make me most proud of my family in retrospect, ar their strong effort in how they managed to evade military service not just for them but for all their neighbours (we were farmers) and also the fact that they were active smugglers. In that they protected wanted groups, mostly Jews but also others by first sheltering them on their property and then smuggling them through the surroundings woods and swamps over the borders to the Netherlands when that was still an option.
My grandmother and sister as young teenagers made some of those frankly life-threatening runs, saving dozens of people
My mother was born in 1926. So she was 7 years old when the Naz!s came up and 18 years old when the war was over. When I was 16 or 18 I asked my mother why nobody knew about the Holocaust at that time. To my surprise, however, my mother explained: "Of course you knew that. At least everyone who could think. All my Jewish classmates disappeared one after the other. It was clear that not all of them had emigrated. That Jews were actually being systematically murdered, maybe we didn't know. But we knew something terrible was going to happen."
I just want to add that my mother was an impressive, tolerant and great woman.
Top 3 German War Movies:
1. Das Boot (Movie based on a book by the same title. It's about a German WW2 submarine on patrol in the Atlantik. Frankly, it may even be the best navy war movie ever - not only German)
2. Die Brücke (Be sure you watch the 1950's version and not the rather recent one. The latter is crap. The movie itself is about a group of Hitler-Youth members in 1945, who are ordered to defend a small bridge in a small town)
3. Stalingrad (Well, the title say it all, ain't it?)
The space between 1 and 2 is very small. 3 is debatable. There are more good German war movies on more or less the same level of quality.
My Families WW2 history? Well, the father of my mother fell on the eastern front. My other grandfather was a firm believer in the Nazi regime and volunteered for the Kriegsmarine (German Navy). He served the war on cruiser "Nürnberg" and spend most of his time at anchor in Norway. He therefore was rather isolated regarding information and always told me, that he didn't knew anything about the atrocities commited by the regime until the war was over. He actually is one of the few believably making such a statement. Though, I always wondered why he never questioned the sudden disappearance of the Jewish population in his home city. He said, that they were told Jews were moved to Palestine. Well, ok, even if that would have been true, would it have been O.K.? So, I am convinced that deep down inside he knew something not right did happen. He just never allowed himself to give in into this thought. On the other hand, he did almost slap me in the face, when I told him about my idea to join the German Bundeswehr (German Army). Let me put it this way > He didn't believe in military anymore and convinced me not to go this route.
I also had an uncle who was conscripted into the "Waffen-SS" at the age of 17. It happened in 1944 and he did partake and was taken prisoner in the "battle for Normandy". He was a kid and brainwashed by the system when he joined. He told us (actually, he even wrote a little biography about his war times and the time in captivity), he was never happier, when he was put on the front line...until his first battle. After his "baptism of fire" his world collapsed. By growing experience on the front and by stories of the few veterans still alive in his unit, he rather quickly came to the conclusion, that everything they were told in school was a lie. He got wounded a few weeks into the battle and captured. He than was brought to America, were he served on a farm somewhere in the south. The people were rather friendly to him and they even held contact for a few years, after being released. The experienced of his whole journey from Hitler-Youth to battle to captivity and back home change him forever and made him a strong believer in pacifism.
Anyways, be aware of Germans answering questions about their grandparents in WW2. In my personal experience, they like to "let things look better than they were". E.g. I still have to meet a German, who honestly admits, that his own Grandfather was an SS volunteer, who did ethnic cleansing, or who has been a guard in a concentration camp. I guess you figure my point.
i doint remember much from my school days, but i do remember our trip to Dachau
As for how my family remembers the time period 70+ years ago, I only have second-hand information, because my grandfather died before I was born and my grandmother when I was 7.
A few stories I've heard include:
- my 18-year-old grandmother fleeing from her home in what is now Poland in the back of a truck as the Red Army was advancing. Said Red Army was the exception to how the Allies are nowadays viewed as liberators, due to the widespread violence, looting and rape they brought with them, namely to Berlin.
- before having to flee, the same grandmother was drafted into working as a nurse for a field medicine station, mentored by an older man who probably had some sort of rank in the military
- because of this, on her escape, when she needed to cross the line guarded by American soldiers into the non-Soviet zone, she was able to take a medical vehicle and use what English she knew to convince the soldiers to let her through quickly because she supposedly had wounded in the back
- my grandfather, a radio operator in the Luftwaffe (he chose that role because he didn't want to shoot, my mother tells me), escaping the Soviet-surrounded Stalingrad on the last plane that made it out in one piece
- I know my grandfather wanted to become an aviation engineer, but they wouldn't let Germans do that work after the war, so he became an architect instead. He later built himself a house in southern France, where he went or was sent (idk which) after surviving Stalingrad - clearly having a love for the region because of that time spent there.
- my great-grandmother telling my grandmother, whom she had a bad relationship with, that " 'you' will have to pay for this someday " in the context of a train taking people away, presumably to camps, making evident that even as it was happening people weren't blind. It's unclear however whether the great-grandmother meant 'you' as in 'the young generation' or 'you' as in 'perpetrators and their sympathizers', in either case implying my grandmother was part of that group.
We don't really know my grandmother's views. She participated in the same youth groups as everyone else her age at the time did, but that can't be seen as evidence one way or the other, given the significant social pressure to conform. Also, her mother disapproved of them, which given their bad relationship could have driven her to associate more with those groups as an act of rebellion. According to my mother, there were at least a few strange ideas about how appearance supposedly corresponds to character (e.g. the dislike of those with monobrows) that were held by my grandmother; possibly leftovers of growing up in that time.
- my grandmother's half-brother Fritz being drafted at 16 years old, months from the surrender in 1945, and ending up buried in a location unknown to us. That really solidified the senselessness of it all for me.
Regarding how I remember learning about WWII in school, one of the most vivid memories I have of that is in second grade Religion class. I don't remember the context - it was probably in relation to learning about Judaism - but the teacher told us about the White Rose student resistance movement and its leaders Sophie Scholl and her brother, and how they were killed for doing the right thing. I remember how I felt proud of their bravery and sad for their fate, and ended up drawing a little white rose. I was *six*, but it was important to hear.
That's really the sort of starting attitude of all WWII education here. We acknowledge 100% who the bad guys were, and focus on what went wrong, what people did to resist (which helps to see what other options there were even back then!), and how the crimes committed can be prevented from reoccurring. It feels like every grade or two, history classes revisit that period of time; it's the biggest focus of our history education, and for good reason.
However, the war as such isn't the focus, because where what battle happened and who won isn't important the way remembering victims and understanding how fascists rose to power is. Most of what I know about the timeline of the war beyond specific moments like the invasion of Poland, the bombing of London, Stalingrad, and D-Day, comes from English internet sources I've picked up over time.
Visiting Buchenwald certainly left an impression on me. The holocaust and the Nazis were the main subject in history class with (due to lack of time only) an overview of the GDR. The war itself was let out mostly with only the most relevant points.
Only got the "full picture" on both world wars when i watched oversimplyfieds videos.
,,Die Welle” is in my opinion a great movie not particularly about ww2 but it’s about deindividualisation???? and how one opinion can spread and make a group do things they normally would not do. Hard to explain with my English skills. I actually don’t even know if there is an English translation
My grand grandpa (or whatever you call it you know my grandpas dad😂) fought on the eastern front. He actually lost his leg there and he didn’t talk about that time at all, I guess it was just too traumatizing
*great-grandpa :)
My great grandfather did not fight in the war since I think he was wounded (maybe from WW1 but idk exactly) my grandfather was born in the last year of the war so he obviously doesn't remember much but he still has 4 older brothers. The oldest was 16 years old in 1945 and ran away from home when it was clear he would have to fight a loosing war and managed to live in the woods until the war was over.
I think my great uncle has told me that they also housed (jewish) refugees
I havelock admit, the focus on Nazi-Germany in classes at my time was too much and prevented me for the longest time in searching information about the roots, that has led to that Regime. By now I have found a lot of interest in the history of my country, by learning about the 19th century in Europe, with audiobooks like „The sleepwalkers“ and other works about that time.
There is a very very good german movie from 2004 named "Der Untergang" (english title: downfall) which describes the last days in H!tler's Führer bunker in Berlin. Great actors, unique film. Think about whether you might do a reaction to it.
My grandfathers on both sides fought in the war. My grandfather on my mothers side was a prisoner of war by the british and he died a year before i was born. My grandfather on my fathers side was seriously wounded (several shots in the shoulder) and was left for dead on the field ( i learned about that years after he had died). Obviously he survived but he couldn't use his shoulder/arm properly for the rest of his life. He died when i was ten and i remember the big whole he had in his shoulder. I always wanted to hear "war story's" (even back then i was interested in history) , but he never told me the cruel truth about the war. He said that he had to care for the horses (as a girl i loved horses), he didn't tell me anything about battles or dead people...
In school i remember talking and learning about the war for years. I never read "Mein Kampf" and i am absolutly not interested to read it. I had to read "Andorra " in school but i can't remember anything about this book ( it's more than 30 years since😅). So i can confirm that WWII was a big topic when i was still in school.
And i didn't like learning about this war for years and years. There is so much more history that i was (and still am) interested in.
I think the difference starts with "What did you learn about WW II?". - Germans usually would not pose such a question, but rather ask: "What did you learn about the 3rd Reich?", "Waht did you learn about the Nazi times?", "What did you learn about the Holocaust?". The war in itself is not so muh the focus. It isonly one among other aspects of German National Socialism.
What - for example - is disccussed a lot on international palttforms,. but nearly irrelevant and rarley spoken about in Germany, is, how the war itself went on, what fights and eweapons were used, by who, etc. Evrybody knows Stalingrad was pure horror for German soldiers and the turning point. Yes, someone might mention Ernst Rommel, now and then.
However, usually people interested in this period of German history would nearly never show much interest for the military aspects of the war. It is a non topic. Totally irrelevant in comparison of so many things to learn about.
By what I can remember that was even the case here in the Netherlands. We were taught more about the ideologies than about the battles. The heroes of the war, were not the people who stood out for battle prowess, but the ones who liberated people and took care of the return of human conditions. I don't know what is being taught these days.
@@KeesBoons I have not known this. But… it is good to hear. For, in my view, this is what really should matter, not who was better in killing the others!
@@MartinAmbrosiusHackl Thank you Martin. I think we are on the same page. I'm happy to call Germany our neighbour.
13:58
If anyone expressed such a sentiment, I think their peers would have shunned them and teachers have had some choice words with them. Parents would have been informed, leading to a shitstorm at home. It's unthinkable, here, at least to me. Never saw anyone even try to do that.
@Learning about WW2 in my school, I remember, that we learned too, how easily a whole nation/society can be brainwashed for xenophobic and fac1st1c ideologies, which can already starts in preschool, associations, school, fraternities/student leagues, parents and more. For example in my school in the past, we got books like "Die Welle" ("The Wave") about an experiment at a highschool, which was going too far for a better understanding and as a warning.
Back in my school time ( starting the 70’s ) we learned about the Greeks , the Roman’s , a little about Egypt and starting the middle and dark ages ( roughly Karl der Große ) than more or less 7 lessons about Weimarer republic than 1933-1945 was not so intensive like nowadays.
We learned all about the way from WWI through the Republic and how the nazi regime came to power in history class (Northrine-Westphalia). And I remember in elementary school we learned so much about the "old testament" and the jewish origin of that. I guess this was to understand other religious perspectives much more.
Also correctly depicted here is that the progress of the war was not discussed in detail but included the unprovoked raids into neutral countries like Belgium, Netherlands etc.
If you want to see movies about the war I recommend "Das Boot and Die Brücke"
Hello from Northern Germany. I was born in 1974 and the world war was almost the only topic in history class. That really annoyed me. As if Germany's history doesn't have much more to offer. I had to learn everything myself later.
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Moin aus Norddeutschland. Ich bin 1974 geboren und im Geschichtsunterricht war der Weltkrieg fast das einzige Thema. Das hat mich tierisch genervt. Als wenn Deutschlands Geschichte nicht viel mehr zu bieten hat. Musste ich alles selber lernen, später.
I rather think it was what stuck with me the most.
@@arnodobler1096 Yes, maybe the same for me. It was also an unimaginable time. Nevertheless, I missed something in history class, now in hindsight. ;)
@@HenryAusLuebeck kann man alles nachholen
@@arnodobler1096 und mit dem Wissen der letzten Weltkriege jetzt zu erleben das ukrainische Nazis mit deutschen Waffen auf Russen schießen kotzt mich riiichtig an!!! ... and with the knowledge of the last world wars now to experience the Ukrainian Nazis shooting at Russians with German weapons really pisses me off!!!
Try the film:Schindlers Liste or the diary of Anna Frank 😊
We did WW2 in the second semester of twelth class, age 18 to 19 from September 83 until Ende of January 1984.. it was the main topic for a whole semester, so more or less 4 to 5 months. This even included watching documentaries. I remember that we intensively learned about how Hitler could happen, so about the last 2 to 3 years of the Weimar Republik. And later on about the Holocoust intensively and not so much about battles and the war going forth and then backwards for Germany. And we did the Nuremberg trials and discussed if Entnazifizierung really happened full force and why it was still regarded as a defeat instead of being grateful that it changed for the better afterwards. It remains to mulitlevel history for all, germans, polish, jewish, russian, french, etc... as my family derives from the east on both sides, being lucky of getting rid of Hitler had the price of loosing their home. they all became refugees with nothing more than what they could carry. So the personal destiny war in a contrast to the knowing that - thank god - it was over. Germans who derived from the western aereas might have a different approach. Being bombed but maybe not lossing real estate. So those 6 months covered everything form world economic crisis in 1929 til the foundation of the FRG in 1949. I can not complain at all about no having learned nothing or not enough. the last short semester was not very extensively the post 1949 history and the foundation of the EU or EC. Before we had extensevily covered the treaty of Versailles and the Weimarer Republik with all it's riots and inflation etc. So especially German history was covered from 1848 til 1929 before that. Looking back we didn't learn nothing or not much about German colonies and about other European countries 19th and 20th centuries history.
I was 14 or 15 when I was in Ravensbrück
At the end we all have to pass the same tests,to be able to study in the whole Europe
Lets learn about the heavy Gustav
I can really recommend the movie "Das Boot".
I was born in 1998, i was taught about this time in school in every subject and i hated it. Don't get me wrong it's important to learn about, but you learn about it in history, german, english, religion, politics, geography, art, music, chemistry and biology. It was everywhere.
I don't know why i didn't Like it in school, almost every summer holiday we visited two German regions and also any museums and historic sites there.
Again I think it's very important to learn about it, so such a thing never happens again.
Also there have to be people to learn all this and still think it is nice, because we are having a rise of a political right wing again. Or maybe they Just don't think too hard on the things they are saying.
All we did in religion lesson was to watch movies about WW2, I've probably seen them all😅. Best thing is that we had history lesson directly afterwards with just this topic. I never needed to learn for a test😆.
It's interesting how casually you say we're "one of the greatest countries" and my reflexive reaction is to feel uncomfortable, despite how it's just true that many inventions and discoveries were made by Germans. Patriotism and nationalism have been associated with atrocity here so heavily that it's hard for us to view them as harmless. That's also a reason you rarely see the German flag except on official buildings and during international football, where this social taboo doesn't really apply.
Instead, Germans tend to feel proud of their region's history and unique features, like cuisine, holidays, culture and whatnot. The federal states are so different from each other you can really tell that they haven't been the same nation for long yet, on a grand European history scale. It's reminiscent of the USA in a way, how people speaking the same language (the thing that caused us to become one nation in the first place!) can be so diverse.
I would like to add that it isn't mentioned that East Germany (under Soviet rule) never underwent denazification which shows today in a higher acceptance of (neo-)nazi ideology in the new states. Only recently the AfD (Alternative für Deutschland/Alternative for Germany, a far-right party) has managed to get a mayor and a county administrator elected in former East Germany for the first time.
Of course, not everyone in the East is right-wing, probably not even a majority. Those elections were probably mostly driven by discontent with the major parties, moreso than by a majority desire for far-right politics.
I already lived in France, and must say that they approached it in a very neutral way. But I had my visit of Auschwitz on my own later. It was an horrible experience, I tell you.
im half english and half german but was born and brought up in germany the visite of the concentration camp happens in the last year of school so with 16 not before. before i think kids cant handle this. it was realy hard to see this all and we (so my class mades and me) haven taken this realy serious. Mein Kampf we dont have read this in school because it is forbiden normaly we have readed instead a book called die welle or the wave in english its a book about a school class who makes in history lesson a experiment about this time its realy shocking they even have put movie out about the book in the 2000s but the movie is in german and was brought out after my time in school. we had to watch in school movies like schindlers list etc. i personal would wish they not only teach the bad storys even the good ones what shows that some germans in this time has fight against the reagime. l mean yes they show us schindlers list but there are more storys out like his for example the story from franz stiegler and charley brown i have heard about this story from a music band who makes videos and songs from real history events the band is calles sabaton and the song is no bullets fly watch the animated version here on youtube and you see the story from them. its so heard broken and a good story i was crying. this should teached in school too.
Born 1946 nobody was talking about the2nd worldwar in school very sad
Honestly, the Soviet Union/Russia did and still does some f-ed up things too. Stalin and his concentration camps (or as they are more commonly known as: Gulags) killed a hell of a lot more people than the Nazis and the Japanese combined, not to mention that most of the Gulags still are up and running while the Germans turned theirs into reminders to never let something like that happen again - it's a topic you rarely hear about, a fact no-one likes to talk about because, well.. a) they have to do something about it after acknowledging its existance and b) History is written by the victors.
Proud?! Sick ones,underdogs & disturbed may be - but in history lessons you're also seeing this mountains of dead,dread bodies. So ,if you're inspired by this - there are some deeper problems going on.
And although we had this stuff in school really often someone as Hubert "hubsi" Aiwanger is still in charge and the AfD is stronger than ever. It is thought that about 20% sympathize with extreme right and wish "for another Hitler that finally brings stuff back in order"... But they hid in bushes because they were called out whenever they said something outside a bar "am Stammtisch". But today it is fine again and I predict that we have a similar situation 100years later again.
I can't eat enough to vomit as much as I want.
showeing together
At the time we visited dachau at school i was to young to understand the concepts of nationalism, antisemetism or racism, it was just a day you had not to sit on your ass and listen to teachers telling you things.
the unlikeliness of displaying the german flag doesn't have to do that much with the third reich. on the one hand it's the symbol of the _republic_ and as such quite abstract and not really that great as a symbol for personal identity - esp. in germany or amongst other germans. what would be the point of sheepishly waving around a symbol to remind ourselves, we live in the same country?
on the other hand it might be seen as a symbol for the entirety of all german _people_ (incl. bavarians and even saxons), but since we are still 'quite tribal' including people form 'different tribes' (esp. those looked down upon) isn't really that encouraging. i guess, there are a bunch of proud scotsmen or northern-irish catholics not too eager to wave around the union jack as well - which doesn't necessarily make them unpatriotic.
so, using the black-red-gold mostly makes sense when being around people from different countries (esp. in competitive settings like international sport events), because only then it makes sense to refer to our nationality.
the thing about the third reich in history lessons is somewhat misleading. history is generally speaking taught in a chronological order: starting from prehistoric times and ending in the 20th century. that means that students are way younger, when they learn about antiquity or the middle ages, then they are when learning about the third reich. and since older students can comprehend complex topics better, the later eras are learned in more detail. also it's often the last thing people remember from history classes when leaving school, whereas they might have already forgotten about what they learned in 5th grade. so, history lessons often _appear_ to focus so much more on the third reich, whereas in reality it's a simple matter of age and memory.
I only can say - god beware of electing trump again - so simmilar so simmilar (I german born in 1973)
Did you know there was a Soviet Republic of Bavaria at one point in history? It lasted about a month, and it had it all, including revolution and political assassinations. It all happened between the end of imperialism and the forming of the Weimar republic. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic