Great review. I have a Varg and an Ultra Bee with Sirris and more power and battery than this build.. The gap between the two is small. Tight single track I mostly pick the Ultra but the Varg is so close. The Varg is best bang for the buck for sure!
The Ultra is like a 90's Civic and the Varg is a BMW M3. The Ultra will probably never get to Varg level, but its fun trying and a lot lighter with tons of aftermarket.
Yeah I'll stick with the varg. $12.5k and still not great range. Further, the quality of the varg can't be beat. I like the ultra but once I acquired a freeride I stopped riding my ultra. The freeride feels higher quality and the ergos are better. The varg blows them all away
It depends where you ride. If you ride in the woods, the varg is going to be an extra 80lbs compared to a stock bike and even if he mod the shit out of the ultra the varge will still be 50lbs heavier
I have a UB with the same modifications as the bike in this video-controller, Sirris suspension, etc. I am simply a weekend warrior trail rider and It’s an absolute beast in the woods. I can keep up with, and even surpass, full sized bikes. It's weight and size shouldn’t be underestimated. In my opinion, compared to the gas bikes I’ve owned, the UB offers the most fun riding experience. Because of that, I don’t mind the upgrade costs or the current range limitations.
I got a Rawrr Mantis, & they're definitely no slouch, but I feel it's a bit under powered, but other than that it's a phenomenal bike, I ride it in the desert & mountains of Nevada & out performs a lot of my buddies modded gas 250s/450s, it comes stock with like 450lbs of torque, but I feel like 13kw-15kw is the sweet spot with bikes, & am hoping to do a motor, controller & battery swap on mine this year to something more powerful
Was going to build up an Ultra then the Varg price drop came. Ultra would have been $14,000+ total once I upgraded Ultra with higher capacity battery to get the range of the Varg, the good Sirius suspension, 21/18 wheels/tires, etc. and that is without any power increase. My 60hp Varg was $9,990 including doc fees and dealer putting it together. Easy decision and glad I went with the Varg. I trail ride only; no MX so I may eventually soften the suspension, but with all the clickers out most of the way, and since I bought my Varg with two spring rates lighter than for my weight, it's really good as is. The new Varg EX will be even better for offroad riding (10% larger battery up to 7.2kWh now, softer enduro suspension, redesigned frame for more flex, better wiring harness, head/tail/brake lights, better phone and cradle, flag hand guards, etc.) and you can option the tires, tubes/mousse, brake disc guards, etc. right from the factory. It starts at $13,900. I suspect that the price of the Varg MX will go up to about that once they stop building the current version and add all the updates to the next version of the Varg MX. But at just under $14,000, both Varg are still slightly cheaper than building up an Ultra with all the things needed to get the range and comfort of the Varg. Only nice thing about the Ultra is the lighter weight and slightly smaller size for really gnarly single track. In the end, up to the owner which specs are important to them (size, weight, price, performance, the terrain they will ride, etc.). Nice to have choices.
I haven't had a bike in many years now (risk aversion took me out of the game,) but the Varg EX is seriously tempting me to put my helmet back on. It's everything I ever wanted in an on/off road electric bike. Never thought I'd see one come along so soon, but here it is. Very, very tempting.
Bro, I want a Stark so bad. I’m about to sell everything I own just so I can get one. It looks too amazing and fun to ride. I also like that it’s a little bit on the smaller side of a full size bike. That thing is a beast.
The stark varg is same size as full sized mx bikes and it's actually a little heavier but it's way more powerful. The ultra bee is slightly smaller than mx bikes and way lighter it's a mid sized bike.
You can put 20K dollars in your 401K, thereby lowering your tax rate, then borrow against your 401K at a pretty low interest rate to purchase the Varg.
If you know a junkie that you can pay you can probably get him to get go in to a dealership with some cash get your a varg on a loan with the first 3 months paid off and it becomes a civil matter, change the fenders find a tracker if they have one on it and they’ll never find it again. That’s how you save 10k. 😂😂
Really glad to hear how good the Sirris suspension is at soaking up hits on an MX track. I'm in line to get a Dust Moto Hightail next year which will come stock with Sirris, so I'm stoked!!!
I have a surron light bee I upgraded suspension, battery, controller and raced in harescrambles, it was fun in the woods. Preordered the varg first day though because I really wanted something that actually felt like it was made to hold up to the kind of riding I was doing. I got so tired of fixing stuff on the surron all the time, belts, swingarms, bent axels all the time etc. I wanted an electric bike for less maintenance and it seemed like it was actually taking more maintenance than a 2-stroke dirtbike! I've got about 65 hours on my varg now and it's had a few issues but they are more tech teething issues than durability and the 2 year warranty is awesome, zero expense on my part. I got into MX now with my son so haven't had the chance to do much wood riding and no harescrambles on the varg yet. I do like the idea of a smaller lighter bike for harescramble type riding but zero warranty on the surron for more money and the imho reduced surron quality is a hard sell. KTM freeride is maybe more tempting or maybe the future Dust moto. That said surrons are great for more chill riding they are made for out of the box but not worth upgrading for hard riding imho. I'd be curious to hear what ECR's experience is though - how many hard miles do they have on their surrons and how reliable have they been?
The Ultra comes with a 6-month warranty and there are a lot of options to extend for $$$. Kudos to Stark Future for offering a 2-year warranty as standard.
@ where are you getting this information from & how much are they losing? Secondly, why would they inflict such damage upon themselves in this volatile/niche, up & slowly coming market?
I was lucky enough to had a full mod ultra ( with all good stuff) and an Alpha Varg. I must day that I completely prefer the Varg pretty much everywhere! You got it all! The only thing I would like to have would be an hot swap battery on the Varg ( I had 2 stock ones in the ultra) very convenient! Both really good bikes but all resume for the level of rider you are. Really good vídeo💪
Great video on a topic that a lot of us have been thinking about for a while now. I have an Ultra and haven't had a chance to ride a Varg yet. I ride off road / hard enduro. I was a little surprised to see better range on the Varg as I typically get ~ 30 miles but I'm on a stock controller and use 'S' mode sparingly. I would love to see ECR do a shootout in 2025 between the a) Varg EX, b) modified Ultra and c) new KTM Freeride.
I really wish you would've put the upgraded motor battery and controller and turned it up to 35kw+ on the ultra but regardless a video we've been waiting for thank you
Team Varg. The varg is so well appointed right of the show room floor, it’s on another level. On the other side the ultra bee will take some serious work in order to just come close in a few categories, it’s an easy decision.. I own a stark and have some time on a modded ultra, I’ll get on the varg every time.
Electros are a blast to ride. My Sur Ron lite B is heavily modded, and I run it at 22 kW. It would be cool to see an upgraded motor and battery for the Ultra! 👍🏼🙂.
@ EBMX 72V 57AH battery with the high power wiring harness. EBMX X9000 controller and KO Moto motor. The motor is ok but still overheats. I would recommend an EBMX motor.
Great content again. I own the ultra and did only inexpensive mods, except for a used 2nd battery. I'm probably not good enough to notice the difference between the stock suspension and upgraded. Although I'm 6'1 tall, I sat on a Varg and didn't like the size. I'm happy with the ultra. My only complaint is range, and a little faster would be nice.
This is one where i have to wonder where your bias lies, because the varg is a full size bike and the ultra is a 7/8. I'm 5'11" and even with 30mm risers I feel the bike is very cramped. Add the short whelbase and it feels likes I'm always riding into the handlebars. Don't get me wrong I love my UB but sitting on a varg feels so much better. Only real downside is the extra weight.
@@dohbroh4395 I had to make some adjustments on my UB, specifically raise the handlebars and lowered the footpegs. I just love it for the trails. It just comes down to personal preference.
$13.5k Surron vs $10.2k Stark. If you read the article and follow the links to the mods and prices they add up to $7060 for the surron. Add the price of a surron to that (from ECR's listings - $6.5K) and your looking at a total price of $13,560 for the modded surron! Meanwhile the 60 hpr stark (don't tell me Jett used more than 60 hpr?) has never been $14k, it's max price is $13k, the launch price was $12k and the current price is $10k.
With the Varg EX coming it's a no brainer now. This is not even a question. I mean the only thing that could have convince me for the bee was the legal road access and yeah the possibility of modding but you need to spend a lot to get something relevant so yeah the Varg EX all day without a doubt.
Is that harescrambles? Are you still running the 2.4 kWh battery? How many times do you have to change it in a scramble? scrambles I've done have been 2 hours and hard to imagine the battery making it that long. I think the varg would make it though at my pace for the scrambles I've done.
@@BarrettMeeker867 Yes. I upgraded to 3kWh batteries. I swap each lap (usually 4 laps per race), although on some track I might be able to get 2 laps per battery. Our races are 1:30+ and the Vargs are totally dead at about 1:15. Usually they would have to stop a lap short but they got lucky and a couple of the races were cut short and they did manage to finish.
@@electronracer Thanks for the info! Do you know how many miles? Sounds like faster tracks or pace than I have. I've done a harescramble on the varg yet but was able to complete some midpack with an upgraded light bee with a 3.6 kwh pack with no battery changes, they were about 2 hours and 24 miles or so. From the woods riding I've done on the stark I think it would do about the same range wise and make it for my mid-pace with the tracks we have.
@@BarrettMeeker867 Sure thing! Its usually 6-8 miles per lap. Sandy and pretty fast here in FL. The sand is definitely hard on them. We have a bunch of Ultras in there and none are able to finish with one battery. Most guys can get through the race with 2 stock Ultra batteries (2 laps on each) but the fastest guys actually need to swap each lap on the longer courses.
I own both these jokers and have a nearly identical UB. Anytime I'm pushing it on an MX track I'm going Varg but the UB is undoubtedly more fun to ride. I'm looking forward to upgrading the UB motor and seeing what power gains I can get while keeping the bike around the 200lb mark
Varg quality and performance all day long over the ultra bee. Looking forward to the dust moto hightail comparison to your modded ultra bee. Dust moto has the sirris suspension and probably close to the Varg in quality.
What it also depends on is what kind of rider you are. MX track is one thing, but for some one who does basic trail riding and some light enduro, even the stock ultra bee can do most of that. If you go harder into enduro and technical trails, then upgraded suspension on the ultra bee may still be the way to go. The varg is an amazing bike for mx, and big open terrain. I've been watching both, and tracking reviews to see what may eventually suit what I want and need, and I honestly think the varg is just more than i'll ever need, same with many other riders. However there are a lot of racers and great mx riders that would benefit from the Varg and it can be taken out for fun on trails and enduro too. I think the comparison was a bit unfair that it was a heavily modded ultra bee, however, the value was still $1.5k less after the mods on the costs since nothing was done to the Varg, but also that there is a lot more options available for the Ultra bee, compared to the Varg. As noted the Stark is much cheaper than it was before, so the price difference isn't as much, and it is getting a better range, which is the biggest short fall on all electric bikes, and while a second battery is awesome, they are not cheap.
Come on guys don't compare that Ultra B to the Varg I mean they can both be killer dirt bikes but a China based frame is like putting lipstick on a pig.
Completely agree. A Chinese frame with 43mm forks will never compete with a proper frame and 48mm forks. There is a reason that motocross bikes went away from 43mm forks over two decades ago. They simply flex too much when raced at speed in rough terrain.
@@mikesmith1690there is no any problem for build any frame in china. this is not china-question. ultra just lightweight motorcycle. this comparison is all about weight.
My ultra is a fairly capable trail bike but my Varg (with suspension work) outshines even in a lower power setting than the UB. The Varg is So well balanced and the throttle curve is smooth as glass. I can hold it on a hill or climb without breaking traction. Friends on gas call it “cheating”
One thing that we will continue to discover is, which bike has a better long-term reliability. The ultra Bee has so much aftermarket support. There’s only one option for a lot of of the parts onthe varg.
I know nothing about the long term reliability of the Ultra Bee. However, I own two Starks and race them in motocross. They are hands down the most reliable bike to race motocross. A very quality engineered and manufactured product, with great support after the sale. No other manufacturer comes close. Every other motocross bike is non-warrantied the minute you roll it our of the dealer door.
From my experience with a varg and a surron light been the varg is mechanically way more durable. I tear up belts, bend axles, and generally destroy the surron components way more without even crashing :P I have 65 hours and ~ 800 miles on the varg and have only had two issues, both software / electronic one with the bluetooth module and one with the battery but there's a 2 year warranty and you get new parts within a week. In terms of parts availability if Stark were to go under we could look at Alta - which actually sold fewer bikes than stark has already and people have been able to keep them running so I'd guess even if stark went under (doesn't seem likely) you'd be able to keep them on the road like the Altas I think.
It’s a tough choice and people should consider both for sure. You nailed it in this video! Jett did a really good job explaining the differences. So cool he can do what he does on a street bike and ride moto like this. After riding them both and a stock ultrabee it is clear that on a full sized MX track especially Thunder with elevation the Varg would win a hot lap. But if you are just trying to ride and make good turns and be smooth the ultrabee might be the choice for you. For me and I’m old and smedium size so the new fuel injected 125 is still my first choice but I could have fun on either of these and the reduced maintenance on these bikes is insane. Literally plug and play. There is a place for these bikes on the track and for most of us these are all the motor we will ever need!! I wish there was a USA made option 😂! Good job Tucker. Keep it up.
Check out Dust Moto, my man! They're in the ballpark for price, American made, and they're letting people in on all the R&D. It remains to be seen if they'll be competitive, but Dust could be a contender. 👊
And in-between both of these...... Or better to say in between a MORE Stock Modded Ultra and regular priced Varg. The mid-sized Dust Hightail... This video does make the sticker shock of the Dust easier to swallow.
Yea lol this video actually just made me pre-order a dust. I have a varg and love the quality and I have a modded surron lightbee and like the confidence a small bike gives in hard stuff especially riding solo in the woods. I'll use my varg for MX and the dust more for woods maybe.
I think you summed it up pretty well but missed the point. Why would anyone spend more for a bike with less everything except potential issues. Which is where the UB still wins with its jackshaft set up etc.
The Ultra is not at the Varg level, I do not expect it to be. My build is a stock battery, Torp1000 controller, 18/21 wheelset, and the rebuilt front fork by ECR. That puts me at $9500 for the build. What I love is the Ultra is so light. When I'm on the MX track I definitely have Varg envy however in the trails the Ultra is better due to its weight and smaller stature in general. I'd say the only thing I need to do at this point is have ECR stiffen up the front forks so I have more confidence on the track. The price drop on the Varg certainly has made this more of an interesting comparison, they are just two different kinds of bikes.
Love all the great electric dirt bike content you guys put out. However, the title of "14k Stark vs 12.5k Modded Ultra Bee" seems quite disingenuous. In the video you state the Stark costs 10-11k. Why the 14k price in the title? IMHO, the fact that Starks are being raced all over the world by both pros/ametuers means that it will steadily improve both from the factory and with aftermarket parts. If the Ultra Bee is mostly used by non-pro trail riders, it's unlikely to improve as quickly as the Stark.
Thanks! Glad you like the content. MSRP of the Varg is $13,900 + fees and while it's temporarily discounted to move inventory, it'll soon go back to MSRP. Since this video will stay up on UA-cam for many years to come, we're going to show MSRP and not the temporary discount.
@@ElectricCycleRider I'd bet good money that it will go back to MSRP until an upgrade comes out. Still should have listed at least as $13k imho, since the extra $1k for the 80 hpr is totally unneeded especially if trying to compare them. Also FYI if you add up the surron cost with the mods you link to in the article they are $7,060 which would make the surron $13.5k, making the title more disingenuous imho.
I love both. but if you need to upgrade your bike increasing price 100%. its never worth it. Also the stark varg has just way more supermoto /road potential. for those of us not only doing MX
😂 Surron vs Stark. No Surron will compete with a Stark. The only bike close would be the Honda CR electric, which is not in production. Justin Bogle on Stark vs Trey Canard Honda CR eletric. Enduro: I want to see David Knight on the Storm Bee vs Teddy Blazusiak on the Stark. My pick is Teddy. ❤
Yea I mean I got an electric bike because I want to spend more time riding and less wrenching... don't want to have to spend a bunch of time and create a bunch of waste replacing suspension etc.. plus... 2 year warranty on the stark... I have an ultra bee I was upgrading before there were better options and it's not a good path imho... great little bike stock but not worth trying to get it setup for MX imho.
Kinda negates catch title when the Stark is 10,900$- almost dishonest wouldn’t you say? The 12,900 enduro version with 7.2 is still not 14k. What is this Fox Electric Cycle Rider?
Plus and feel free to check my math but from what I can tell if you actually add up the parts they link to in the article the Surron is $13.5k, not $12.5k. ECR sells surron upgrades and built surrons so they probably have a financial interest in promoting more modded surrons, feels like bias....
@ I could’ve had the 80 delivered to my door from a dealer for 11100 but I paid extra to get it straight from stark to not have to deal with a middle man if shit goes wrong worth every penny though the bike is sick af
Ill take badass built af cr500 for 10-12k any day come on!! If u had ure pick of the liter a four stroke ,2 stroke and electric I get but not your maun bike that crazy and if ure real enthusists most of us love the gears and clutch I dont even like the hydraulic clutch ,but 1 thing I do say for the guys they do real power wheelies no. Clutch u cant cheat on a electric bike lol!!
Only 25 miles on the ultra bee 😂 you must be thrashing it to get that little unless the Sirius suspension and 18 inch tyres kills the range from like 40-50 miles normally
Is that 40-50 miles on MX track? or what terrain, average speed? I bet the upgrades did eat some range though, more tire weight, more tire flex = more energy eaten per mile.
Ultra bee is good looking and the varg is ugly imo id prefer a varg no question, but hate the shape of the battery/frame/plastics, kinda gives it the look of a cheap toy, again imo. Ultra bee looks more rugged
I think the size of the rider matters. I am 1,90 m high ; UB is too small. And I like the « play and plug » Varg VS the mecanic you have to do to upgrade the UB…
Team Varg or Team Ultra Bee?
Read the full article here: bit.ly/VargvsUltra2024
Great review. I have a Varg and an Ultra Bee with Sirris and more power and battery than this build.. The gap between the two is small. Tight single track I mostly pick the Ultra but the Varg is so close. The Varg is best bang for the buck for sure!
@@ElectricCycleRider do another video with ultra bee fully upgraded. Controller, battery, motor and tuned to 40kw. We’re all interested in the results
The Ultra is like a 90's Civic and the Varg is a BMW M3. The Ultra will probably never get to Varg level, but its fun trying and a lot lighter with tons of aftermarket.
Yeah I'll stick with the varg. $12.5k and still not great range. Further, the quality of the varg can't be beat. I like the ultra but once I acquired a freeride I stopped riding my ultra. The freeride feels higher quality and the ergos are better. The varg blows them all away
Was your ultra as modded as this ultra ?
@EmotoOregon no it was stock with the exception of 18/21 wheels.
It depends where you ride. If you ride in the woods, the varg is going to be an extra 80lbs compared to a stock bike and even if he mod the shit out of the ultra the varge will still be 50lbs heavier
@JNacoustic all true. I don't ride right woods anymore but all my riding is off road not in tracks
Ultra can do battery swap
I have a UB with the same modifications as the bike in this video-controller, Sirris suspension, etc. I am simply a weekend warrior trail rider and It’s an absolute beast in the woods. I can keep up with, and even surpass, full sized bikes. It's weight and size shouldn’t be underestimated. In my opinion, compared to the gas bikes I’ve owned, the UB offers the most fun riding experience. Because of that, I don’t mind the upgrade costs or the current range limitations.
Can't put a price on smiles
Arme pour enduro, confirmation...
I got a Rawrr Mantis, & they're definitely no slouch, but I feel it's a bit under powered, but other than that it's a phenomenal bike, I ride it in the desert & mountains of Nevada & out performs a lot of my buddies modded gas 250s/450s, it comes stock with like 450lbs of torque, but I feel like 13kw-15kw is the sweet spot with bikes, & am hoping to do a motor, controller & battery swap on mine this year to something more powerful
Was going to build up an Ultra then the Varg price drop came. Ultra would have been $14,000+ total once I upgraded Ultra with higher capacity battery to get the range of the Varg, the good Sirius suspension, 21/18 wheels/tires, etc. and that is without any power increase. My 60hp Varg was $9,990 including doc fees and dealer putting it together. Easy decision and glad I went with the Varg. I trail ride only; no MX so I may eventually soften the suspension, but with all the clickers out most of the way, and since I bought my Varg with two spring rates lighter than for my weight, it's really good as is.
The new Varg EX will be even better for offroad riding (10% larger battery up to 7.2kWh now, softer enduro suspension, redesigned frame for more flex, better wiring harness, head/tail/brake lights, better phone and cradle, flag hand guards, etc.) and you can option the tires, tubes/mousse, brake disc guards, etc. right from the factory. It starts at $13,900. I suspect that the price of the Varg MX will go up to about that once they stop building the current version and add all the updates to the next version of the Varg MX. But at just under $14,000, both Varg are still slightly cheaper than building up an Ultra with all the things needed to get the range and comfort of the Varg. Only nice thing about the Ultra is the lighter weight and slightly smaller size for really gnarly single track.
In the end, up to the owner which specs are important to them (size, weight, price, performance, the terrain they will ride, etc.). Nice to have choices.
I haven't had a bike in many years now (risk aversion took me out of the game,) but the Varg EX is seriously tempting me to put my helmet back on. It's everything I ever wanted in an on/off road electric bike. Never thought I'd see one come along so soon, but here it is. Very, very tempting.
Bro, I want a Stark so bad. I’m about to sell everything I own just so I can get one. It looks too amazing and fun to ride. I also like that it’s a little bit on the smaller side of a full size bike. That thing is a beast.
I want to do the same thing for there new stark ex
The stark varg is same size as full sized mx bikes and it's actually a little heavier but it's way more powerful. The ultra bee is slightly smaller than mx bikes and way lighter it's a mid sized bike.
You can put 20K dollars in your 401K, thereby lowering your tax rate, then borrow against your 401K at a pretty low interest rate to purchase the Varg.
If you know a junkie that you can pay you can probably get him to get go in to a dealership with some cash get your a varg on a loan with the first 3 months paid off and it becomes a civil matter, change the fenders find a tracker if they have one on it and they’ll never find it again. That’s how you save 10k. 😂😂
@SevenMacEleven 1 you're a broke piece of shit 2 no junkie is gonna get a loan for anything
Really glad to hear how good the Sirris suspension is at soaking up hits on an MX track. I'm in line to get a Dust Moto Hightail next year which will come stock with Sirris, so I'm stoked!!!
No way I could ride faster on a Varg than my Ultra Bee in the woods. Great video!
I have a surron light bee I upgraded suspension, battery, controller and raced in harescrambles, it was fun in the woods. Preordered the varg first day though because I really wanted something that actually felt like it was made to hold up to the kind of riding I was doing. I got so tired of fixing stuff on the surron all the time, belts, swingarms, bent axels all the time etc. I wanted an electric bike for less maintenance and it seemed like it was actually taking more maintenance than a 2-stroke dirtbike!
I've got about 65 hours on my varg now and it's had a few issues but they are more tech teething issues than durability and the 2 year warranty is awesome, zero expense on my part. I got into MX now with my son so haven't had the chance to do much wood riding and no harescrambles on the varg yet.
I do like the idea of a smaller lighter bike for harescramble type riding but zero warranty on the surron for more money and the imho reduced surron quality is a hard sell. KTM freeride is maybe more tempting or maybe the future Dust moto.
That said surrons are great for more chill riding they are made for out of the box but not worth upgrading for hard riding imho. I'd be curious to hear what ECR's experience is though - how many hard miles do they have on their surrons and how reliable have they been?
Can't wait for the test with the stark Varg ex!
The Varg comes with a warranty. Winner.
The Ultra comes with a 6-month warranty and there are a lot of options to extend for $$$. Kudos to Stark Future for offering a 2-year warranty as standard.
ultra usually comes with 6 month warranty if bought from a dealer here in the US
The Varg MX dropped the price to $10.9k.
That’s ballgame.
new battery coming , price will go back but with 7.2 kwh.
The mx price dropped but the ex is 14k
The problem is that they loosing money selling the bikes for that price…
@ where are you getting this information from & how much are they losing? Secondly, why would they inflict such damage upon themselves in this volatile/niche, up & slowly coming market?
@@Checkyoursix77 wrong
I'd love to see a comparison when the bee has the torp controller motor and 81v battery
This I was hoping the ultra would have an aftermarket battery in this video to compete with the stark power
Why the ebmx controller is better
I was lucky enough to had a full mod ultra ( with all good stuff) and an Alpha Varg. I must day that I completely prefer the Varg pretty much everywhere! You got it all! The only thing I would like to have would be an hot swap battery on the Varg ( I had 2 stock ones in the ultra) very convenient! Both really good bikes but all resume for the level of rider you are. Really good vídeo💪
Great video on a topic that a lot of us have been thinking about for a while now. I have an Ultra and haven't had a chance to ride a Varg yet. I ride off road / hard enduro. I was a little surprised to see better range on the Varg as I typically get ~ 30 miles but I'm on a stock controller and use 'S' mode sparingly. I would love to see ECR do a shootout in 2025 between the a) Varg EX, b) modified Ultra and c) new KTM Freeride.
I really wish you would've put the upgraded motor battery and controller and turned it up to 35kw+ on the ultra but regardless a video we've been waiting for thank you
Can Ultra Bee be tuned to over 35kw?!
@@Corteumyea I have mines tuned to 40kw
@@DuffleWork Verified 40kw or theorized? what was the main thing you had to do to get that performance uptick?
@@Corteum you have to unlocked it in the app with admin password
@@DuffleWork Peak power, according to Surron's website is 12.5kw. Equivalent of your IQ, apparently lol
Team Varg. The varg is so well appointed right of the show room floor, it’s on another level. On the other side the ultra bee will take some serious work in order to just come close in a few categories, it’s an easy decision.. I own a stark and have some time on a modded ultra, I’ll get on the varg every time.
Electros are a blast to ride. My Sur Ron lite B is heavily modded, and I run it at 22 kW. It would be cool to see an upgraded motor and battery for the Ultra! 👍🏼🙂.
What did you have to do to get it from 12.5kw to 22kw, and how did that affect battery life, or were you able to get a better battery? thanks
@
EBMX 72V 57AH battery with the high power wiring harness. EBMX X9000 controller and KO Moto motor. The motor is ok but still overheats. I would recommend an EBMX motor.
Great content again. I own the ultra and did only inexpensive mods, except for a used 2nd battery. I'm probably not good enough to notice the difference between the stock suspension and upgraded. Although I'm 6'1 tall, I sat on a Varg and didn't like the size. I'm happy with the ultra. My only complaint is range, and a little faster would be nice.
This is one where i have to wonder where your bias lies, because the varg is a full size bike and the ultra is a 7/8. I'm 5'11" and even with 30mm risers I feel the bike is very cramped. Add the short whelbase and it feels likes I'm always riding into the handlebars. Don't get me wrong I love my UB but sitting on a varg feels so much better. Only real downside is the extra weight.
@@dohbroh4395 I had to make some adjustments on my UB, specifically raise the handlebars and lowered the footpegs. I just love it for the trails. It just comes down to personal preference.
you folks should do a supermoto comparison of the two?
$13.5k Surron vs $10.2k Stark. If you read the article and follow the links to the mods and prices they add up to $7060 for the surron. Add the price of a surron to that (from ECR's listings - $6.5K) and your looking at a total price of $13,560 for the modded surron!
Meanwhile the 60 hpr stark (don't tell me Jett used more than 60 hpr?) has never been $14k, it's max price is $13k, the launch price was $12k and the current price is $10k.
With the Varg EX coming it's a no brainer now. This is not even a question. I mean the only thing that could have convince me for the bee was the legal road access and yeah the possibility of modding but you need to spend a lot to get something relevant so yeah the Varg EX all day without a doubt.
The $5K RM-E build is leading our series ahead of a whole fleet of Vargs & Ultras 😎
Get em!
Is that harescrambles? Are you still running the 2.4 kWh battery? How many times do you have to change it in a scramble? scrambles I've done have been 2 hours and hard to imagine the battery making it that long. I think the varg would make it though at my pace for the scrambles I've done.
@@BarrettMeeker867 Yes. I upgraded to 3kWh batteries. I swap each lap (usually 4 laps per race), although on some track I might be able to get 2 laps per battery. Our races are 1:30+ and the Vargs are totally dead at about 1:15. Usually they would have to stop a lap short but they got lucky and a couple of the races were cut short and they did manage to finish.
@@electronracer Thanks for the info! Do you know how many miles? Sounds like faster tracks or pace than I have. I've done a harescramble on the varg yet but was able to complete some midpack with an upgraded light bee with a 3.6 kwh pack with no battery changes, they were about 2 hours and 24 miles or so.
From the woods riding I've done on the stark I think it would do about the same range wise and make it for my mid-pace with the tracks we have.
@@BarrettMeeker867 Sure thing! Its usually 6-8 miles per lap. Sandy and pretty fast here in FL. The sand is definitely hard on them. We have a bunch of Ultras in there and none are able to finish with one battery. Most guys can get through the race with 2 stock Ultra batteries (2 laps on each) but the fastest guys actually need to swap each lap on the longer courses.
I own both these jokers and have a nearly identical UB. Anytime I'm pushing it on an MX track I'm going Varg but the UB is undoubtedly more fun to ride. I'm looking forward to upgrading the UB motor and seeing what power gains I can get while keeping the bike around the 200lb mark
Varg quality and performance all day long over the ultra bee. Looking forward to the dust moto hightail comparison to your modded ultra bee. Dust moto has the sirris suspension and probably close to the Varg in quality.
Love the comparison videos keep them coming thanks.
Now do a ride comparison of the two through technical single track with several off-road riders would be cool.
We have the 2024 80hp varg and two ultra bee’s it’s the stark all day for me
I have a stock ultra. I want the varg ex too!
What it also depends on is what kind of rider you are. MX track is one thing, but for some one who does basic trail riding and some light enduro, even the stock ultra bee can do most of that. If you go harder into enduro and technical trails, then upgraded suspension on the ultra bee may still be the way to go. The varg is an amazing bike for mx, and big open terrain. I've been watching both, and tracking reviews to see what may eventually suit what I want and need, and I honestly think the varg is just more than i'll ever need, same with many other riders. However there are a lot of racers and great mx riders that would benefit from the Varg and it can be taken out for fun on trails and enduro too.
I think the comparison was a bit unfair that it was a heavily modded ultra bee, however, the value was still $1.5k less after the mods on the costs since nothing was done to the Varg, but also that there is a lot more options available for the Ultra bee, compared to the Varg. As noted the Stark is much cheaper than it was before, so the price difference isn't as much, and it is getting a better range, which is the biggest short fall on all electric bikes, and while a second battery is awesome, they are not cheap.
And right in the middle (at half the cost) is a home build on a ICE chassis with a hot swappable battery.
I'm curious about the height and range of the saddle of Ultrabee and Stark varg
What about on the storm bee
Come on guys don't compare that Ultra B to the Varg I mean they can both be killer dirt bikes but a China based frame is like putting lipstick on a pig.
All the bikes are China bikes even your real dirtbikes
@douglasyoung3992 Have you ever tried riding an Ultra
Completely agree. A Chinese frame with 43mm forks will never compete with a proper frame and 48mm forks. There is a reason that motocross bikes went away from 43mm forks over two decades ago. They simply flex too much when raced at speed in rough terrain.
@@mikesmith1690there is no any problem for build any frame in china. this is not china-question. ultra just lightweight motorcycle. this comparison is all about weight.
-1,000 social score @douglasyoung3992
My ultra is a fairly capable trail bike but my Varg (with suspension work) outshines even in a lower power setting than the UB. The Varg is So well balanced and the throttle curve is smooth as glass. I can hold it on a hill or climb without breaking traction. Friends on gas call it “cheating”
Stark Varg will have a supermoto coming, so I’ll be holding out for that.
One thing that we will continue to discover is, which bike has a better long-term reliability. The ultra Bee has so much aftermarket support. There’s only one option for a lot of of the parts onthe varg.
I know nothing about the long term reliability of the Ultra Bee. However, I own two Starks and race them in motocross. They are hands down the most reliable bike to race motocross. A very quality engineered and manufactured product, with great support after the sale. No other manufacturer comes close. Every other motocross bike is non-warrantied the minute you roll it our of the dealer door.
From my experience with a varg and a surron light been the varg is mechanically way more durable. I tear up belts, bend axles, and generally destroy the surron components way more without even crashing :P
I have 65 hours and ~ 800 miles on the varg and have only had two issues, both software / electronic one with the bluetooth module and one with the battery but there's a 2 year warranty and you get new parts within a week.
In terms of parts availability if Stark were to go under we could look at Alta - which actually sold fewer bikes than stark has already and people have been able to keep them running so I'd guess even if stark went under (doesn't seem likely) you'd be able to keep them on the road like the Altas I think.
It’s a tough choice and people should consider both for sure. You nailed it in this video! Jett did a really good job explaining the differences. So cool he can do what he does on a street bike and ride moto like this. After riding them both and a stock ultrabee it is clear that on a full sized MX track especially Thunder with elevation the Varg would win a hot lap. But if you are just trying to ride and make good turns and be smooth the ultrabee might be the choice for you. For me and I’m old and smedium size so the new fuel injected 125 is still my first choice but I could have fun on either of these and the reduced maintenance on these bikes is insane. Literally plug and play. There is a place for these bikes on the track and for most of us these are all the motor we will ever need!! I wish there was a USA made option 😂!
Good job Tucker. Keep it up.
Check out Dust Moto, my man! They're in the ballpark for price, American made, and they're letting people in on all the R&D. It remains to be seen if they'll be competitive, but Dust could be a contender. 👊
And in-between both of these...... Or better to say in between a MORE Stock Modded Ultra and regular priced Varg.
The mid-sized Dust Hightail...
This video does make the sticker shock of the Dust easier to swallow.
Yea lol this video actually just made me pre-order a dust. I have a varg and love the quality and I have a modded surron lightbee and like the confidence a small bike gives in hard stuff especially riding solo in the woods. I'll use my varg for MX and the dust more for woods maybe.
I think you summed it up pretty well but missed the point. Why would anyone spend more for a bike with less everything except potential issues. Which is where the UB still wins with its jackshaft set up etc.
Ultra Bee Team 👍
What size rear tires are these bikes running? Do they both have a 110/100-18?
Varg is running 21/19 MX setup according to the video.
In Australia the varg is 10k more than the ultra bee. What I would do is buy the ultra bee and slowly build it up
The Ultra is not at the Varg level, I do not expect it to be. My build is a stock battery, Torp1000 controller, 18/21 wheelset, and the rebuilt front fork by ECR. That puts me at $9500 for the build. What I love is the Ultra is so light. When I'm on the MX track I definitely have Varg envy however in the trails the Ultra is better due to its weight and smaller stature in general. I'd say the only thing I need to do at this point is have ECR stiffen up the front forks so I have more confidence on the track. The price drop on the Varg certainly has made this more of an interesting comparison, they are just two different kinds of bikes.
whats the deal with that fin on his helmet?
I'm sticking with me ICE bike.
Love all the great electric dirt bike content you guys put out. However, the title of "14k Stark vs 12.5k Modded Ultra Bee" seems quite disingenuous. In the video you state the Stark costs 10-11k. Why the 14k price in the title? IMHO, the fact that Starks are being raced all over the world by both pros/ametuers means that it will steadily improve both from the factory and with aftermarket parts. If the Ultra Bee is mostly used by non-pro trail riders, it's unlikely to improve as quickly as the Stark.
Thanks! Glad you like the content. MSRP of the Varg is $13,900 + fees and while it's temporarily discounted to move inventory, it'll soon go back to MSRP. Since this video will stay up on UA-cam for many years to come, we're going to show MSRP and not the temporary discount.
@@ElectricCycleRider I'd bet good money that it will go back to MSRP until an upgrade comes out. Still should have listed at least as $13k imho, since the extra $1k for the 80 hpr is totally unneeded especially if trying to compare them.
Also FYI if you add up the surron cost with the mods you link to in the article they are $7,060 which would make the surron $13.5k, making the title more disingenuous imho.
Varg all day long!!!!New one, with 7.2 battery.
Varg, no question
Stark best
What about the storm bee vs stark
Even worse on range. And its fat.....for its power
And what about the Altis Sigma ?
Different category. Thats probably top dig of midsize category competitive with the SR
Why not put the Stark motor in the Surron?
It ll bend
Lmao bruh have u seen a stark vs a surron the battery and motor are bigger than a damn surron dude
Try an Altis sigma
Am I the only one who owns a Storm Bee?
Yes🤣 congrats tho dude sick bike
Yes and are you having fun ? .. is it street legal ?
Stark and it’s not even close
I love both. but if you need to upgrade your bike increasing price 100%. its never worth it. Also the stark varg has just way more supermoto /road potential. for those of us not only doing MX
Why = 20 mile +/- range
what if electric dampers
Is that even a question, The Bee has less than 17HP and the Varg 80. Nuff said
Yeah...think im gonna stick with my varg.
😂 Surron vs Stark. No Surron will compete with a Stark. The only bike close would be the Honda CR electric, which is not in production. Justin Bogle on Stark vs Trey Canard Honda CR eletric.
Enduro: I want to see David Knight on the Storm Bee vs Teddy Blazusiak on the Stark. My pick is Teddy. ❤
I don't know why you would spend double on a Surron and just buy an appropriate bike to start with. 🤣
Yea I mean I got an electric bike because I want to spend more time riding and less wrenching... don't want to have to spend a bunch of time and create a bunch of waste replacing suspension etc.. plus... 2 year warranty on the stark...
I have an ultra bee I was upgrading before there were better options and it's not a good path imho... great little bike stock but not worth trying to get it setup for MX imho.
Kinda negates catch title when the Stark is 10,900$- almost dishonest wouldn’t you say? The 12,900 enduro version with 7.2 is still not 14k. What is this Fox Electric Cycle Rider?
Plus and feel free to check my math but from what I can tell if you actually add up the parts they link to in the article the Surron is $13.5k, not $12.5k. ECR sells surron upgrades and built surrons so they probably have a financial interest in promoting more modded surrons, feels like bias....
🚀🚀
No matter what mods I can make to a Stark it will never weigh as little as the UB
varg is $11k tho
ub for sure
🤙🏽⚡️🤟🏽⚡️👌🏽
Ultra b feels like a toy compared to the stark varg
kx112 vs kx250
This will shock you, but i didn’t get into this hobby to save money.
Haha, love that point. Funny enough I sort of did actually.... motocross and hare scrambles are a lot cheaper than road racing motorcycles :)
foolish to drop $5k upgrading a surron
Stark is 12k
Can even get the 60 hpr one for $10.2k on the site right now.
@ I could’ve had the 80 delivered to my door from a dealer for 11100 but I paid extra to get it straight from stark to not have to deal with a middle man if shit goes wrong worth every penny though the bike is sick af
The ultra bee is not 12,000 dollars
Ill take badass built af cr500 for 10-12k any day come on!! If u had ure pick of the liter a four stroke ,2 stroke and electric I get but not your maun bike that crazy and if ure real enthusists most of us love the gears and clutch I dont even like the hydraulic clutch ,but 1 thing I do say for the guys they do real power wheelies no. Clutch u cant cheat on a electric bike lol!!
Only 25 miles on the ultra bee 😂 you must be thrashing it to get that little unless the Sirius suspension and 18 inch tyres kills the range from like 40-50 miles normally
Is that 40-50 miles on MX track? or what terrain, average speed? I bet the upgrades did eat some range though, more tire weight, more tire flex = more energy eaten per mile.
Everybody knows real bikes don't have belts..c'mon now!
Ultra bee is good looking and the varg is ugly imo id prefer a varg no question, but hate the shape of the battery/frame/plastics, kinda gives it the look of a cheap toy, again imo. Ultra bee looks more rugged
JUST MUSIC AND CONFUSION BAD VIDEO
I rather drive 90s civic manual than a gay auto bmw m3 just sayin.
Still gay im sorry no gears or clutch maybe 5k I would think about it
Stock battery, stock motor and you have the audacity to compare it to stark vag ? Smfh 🤦🏿♂️😂
The audacity! 😱
@@ElectricCycleRider the gall!😤
@@ElectricCycleRider my 5000w hub motor would destroy that ultra bee 😭😭
I think the size of the rider matters. I
am 1,90 m high ; UB is too small. And I like the « play and plug » Varg VS the mecanic you have to do to upgrade the UB…