In the original series we saw a Klingon female as a Klingon Officer, Mara, and also Kang's wife, in "Day of the Dove" (edited) also in Star Trek V a female Klingon was shown as a senior bridge officer.
Although it was never confirmed on screen, publicity materials for Star Trek VI indicated that Colonel Worf was intended to be the grandfather of his Next Generation namesake, and the father of Mogh.
I love that since everyone hates discovery (personally I couldn't give less of a shit) everyone can now join me and think hey enterprise wasn't that bad let's go watch it
I always tell people within the trek family to start on the second season if the first season turned them off. It finds its legs and becomes a really solid show for the most part.
@@sikox209 I refused to even try to watch it! That's not any star trek I recognise, it's been made for people who've never watched any series or even an episode of star trek in their life from what scenes and trailers I've seen 😞😡
I finally get the joke from ds9 when they go back in time to TOS era. When Worf says "we don't like to talk about that" when asked why the klingons there looks so different.
I disagree with your final conclusion regarding the Klingons' acceptance of L'rell. Ezri established that the Klingon empire had accepted corrupt and incompetent leadership for years. This may have even taken place during the lifetime of Curzon, so she would have had a very good view of the situation. She was respectful about it, but the gist of what she said was that the Klingons were full of shit, that they paid lip service to ideas like "honor" and were not as independently-minded as they let on. It was mostly bluster, and I think there is a parallel there that Discovery attempts to draw with real life in the highly religious. The highly religious are often the worst hypocrites; they preach values that they themselves do not live by (although they pretend to), and accept the most corrupt and immoral as their leaders. This is the Klingon Empire of the 2250's and 60's.
I always figured it was something else. Worf had a child's view of things. Like if you ask some 5 year old: "Do you live in the best country on Earth with the best government?" and they'd probably say yes. Like 9/10 times. They'd also say they believe in the Omniscient being of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Kids, like Worf was when his knowledge of the Klingon Empire was cut off, live in an illusion. The world as people wish it was at times rather than what it really was. Dax, having lived among Klingons for so long as an adult and an ambassador, saw the world as it was. Dax knew that most Klingons were like Duras by comparison. They were boastful, boisterous, lazy, shiftless, liars, cheats, and other "dishonorable" things. Because that's how things are done. But it's not the stories they tell children. Worf grew up believing in Santa Claus, as it were. But most fans don't really seem to realize that was the case. And what that means for the Klingon PoV they built up over TNG through Worf's eyes. Even though it was a regular, recurring plot point in both TNG and DS9 that Worf just wasn't a Klingon, as the video did mention. Because he was a child.
If you should ever do an update, there was a little "blink and you'll miss it" type of thing in "The Trouble with Tribbles", when Kirk question's Koloth's stated purpose of being at the station as "shore leave." Koloth responds, "Captain, we Klingons are not as luxury-minded as you Earthers. We do not equip our ships with, how shall I say it, non-essentials.", making a female shape gesture with his hands. Since Mara ("Day of the Dove") was Kang's wife, and probably exceptional in her abilities to serve as science officer, presumably, the Klingons would have certain situations where the women became "essentials" instead.
My main problem with the STD Klingons is not really the look, although they are extremely badly designed, but the culture. It just doesn't feel Klingon. I rather liked the Into Darkness Klingons. We could see that only the leader was bald. All of the other Klingons had hair and beards. Facial hair, with some few exceptions, has been the main feature of all Klingons since TOS. Bald beardless Klingons? Doesn't work.
Honestly, Discovery would have been received far better if it had not been Star Trek. The creators obviously wanted nothing to do with previous lore. The series only uses the Trek name, and characters like Spock for marketing reasons, not because they actually care to respect what made these things great to begin with. A completely fresh series would have been far better. They would have gotten no blow-back for the amount of non-trek things they wanted to do. And they would have been able to focus more on improving the show itself instead of trying to find way to shoe-horn in lore they obviously care nothing for. TV crowds are fairly generous to new Sci-fi shows, it would have been win-win for everyone. But no. We live in the wrong timeline.
Hosently dude. Discovery wasnt a prequel but set in the way 25th century those klingons weren't klingons but another race, And Micheal Burnham was literally anyone else but Spocks serect human sister the show could have been better received by fans. A few simple little changes.
@@KingreX32 I'm not so sure. Nothing feels Star Trek in this show. I forced myself to watch all of Season 1, Season 2 was way too awful that I stopped watching halfway through and the Season 3 storyline was so bloody stupid that I only watched two episodes. Anyone who knows anything about Star Trek knows that not everyone requires dilithium crystals to power their warp drives. The one episode set on Vulcan (can't remember the new name of the planet) was so stupid. The Romulans never used dilithium. Couldn't the Vulcans have used singularities like them? No. For some reason the Romulans were as clueless as the Vulcans... And of course Burnham once again is better than everyone.
This is the same argument I've made a few times about what STD is. It's not Trek - it's a different, modern, action-based sci-fi program with a Star Trek paint job. This should not have been a Trek show, ever. Were it not branded that way, I still wouldn't have been terribly interested. Likely, it would have been just another sci-fi show I'd have looked into and ultimately dismissed after the pilot episode (which is what happened anyway).
As with Star Wars doctor who and countless other franchises, destroying beloved movies shows and books and their traditions is the whole Point. Contemporary leftists are characterized by hatred and resentment for anything that has come before them. especially the work of far more talented and skilled artists.
Star Trek Discovery Klingons were a result of CBS and Viacom copyright battle in 2015, after they separated years ago, they produced a mangled "copyright" share and payments to use certain rights but not all of them. It was the core reason of all the changes to the Klingon appearance, anything after The Motion Picture and thereof including TNG/DS9/ENT. etc could not be used on Discovery. They were told to come up with new imagery and could use the 1960s names or anything script-based but not visuals. In season 2 after the dust was settled and CEOfiring, you could see the slow restoration back to the original Trek Klingon mythology.
I always saw it as T'Kuvma's followers had surgically modified themselves in an attempt to purge the Quvat virus that made them more human-like in TOS.
Ice been watching random clips on youtube (well, at least, "random" as decided by the almighty algorithm) and unless I'm just crazy (or stupid. Or just incredibly unobservant) I'm pretty sure that even Worf's forehead ridges got wayyyyyyyy way way WAY less pronounced going from TnG and DS9..... I mean, they did, right?
@@stevenstuart152 Yes, they certainly did, which shows that they are a body feature that changes with age. Perhaps they are secondary sex characteristics.
Good theory. Klingon playable factions in Star Trek Online include Gorn, Lethean, Naasicaan, and Orion. It's been a bit since I've played regularly, so who knows. [There is more xeno diversity in non-player crew members, suggesting that almost anyone in the local stellar neighborhood and beyond have interest in honor & Glory due to Fleet circumstances.]
Key to development of the Klingons was James Doohan, who developed the Klingon language. Star Trek was resurrected by Star Wars, when Paramount sought to tap into the same science fiction demand that had been stoked by Star Wars.
I think that Worf represents the ideals that Klingons claim to hold while many Klingons say the words but no they don't mean them. If you watch interviews with Russians on the street, you'll see the same kind of doublethink. Funniest was the young man who spoke very pro-military and when they pulled out the recruitment forms he literally turned and ran away. The Klingons talk about honour but many of them behave and ways that violate their own declared rules for what constitutes honor. In d&d terms, I often think of them as a chaotic neutral Society. If you're powerful, then anything you do is Honorable. And if you want to do something, then you easily rationalize it as honorable. Other Klingons you don't like are dishonorable. And Shakespeare was a Klingon.
L'Rel isn't a coward. She was brave. I lived through the nuclear threat of the 80s, one can assume many Klingons like L'Rel did so similarly. The war against the Federation would have dangerous & unknown consequences to the Empire. Klingons have plenty of enemies. She was using a preexistent bureaucratic tactic to derive pacification. She united the Houses to little acclaim, that much is obvious. Her harsh tactic would have seemed obvious if not brutal. One that any Klingon or slave of the Empire could recognize. Discovery basically uses this tactic to remind us of the merits of today's actual world, something extremely vital for us to remember. *There is no planet B.*
The evolution of the Klingons on TNG was very popular. They expanded their presence very slowly starting with Worf then a ship with some in cryogenics and then his brother but the best was on DS9 , when they time jumped to the Tribble episode. Though after a while they exploited them too much .
Actually, alot of what ST:D did was taken from the novels of John M. Ford, whose early novels (mostly written in the 1970s) explored Klingon culture in a way that diverged greatly from what would be considered canon. Ford's Klingon's honored their dead with the "Black FLeet," and the "Naked Stars" and came from a planet covered with elaborate cloud cover. ST:D tries to ressurect a lot of this. However, the change in appearance and demeanor is all ST:D and has no precedent.
As far as I know, the Klingons' appearance in DISC is based on unused sketches made for "Star Trek: The Motion Picture": forgottentrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Klingon-costume-concept-art-1.jpg
@@kuribayashi84 and they look freaking amazing 100% better then tos and big hit damn that look amazing when you compare it to next generation what good because it was a improvement but compared to ST:D in my opinion it from makeup of (next generation)-6/10 to (ST:D)-8/10 truly wonder what the next improvements evolution will give use fir Klingons.
Very interesting. I tried to watch Discovery but could not stomach it. To me it's just as bad and non-canon as the Disney Star Wars. I was born in 1965 so I grew up with Star Trek and I have always loved the Klingon's.
@@robinanwaldt I don't think the prequels are very good films (1 and 2 are particularly bad) But at the time those films came about the broader star wars universe hadn't been explored that much so most of what they added to the lore felt more like an expansion than a retcon (with a few minor exceptions ofc). The disney sequels basically takes what we knew about jedi training and throws it out the window.
MaMastoast I highly disagree about the retcons. There already was a not insignificant amount of Star Wars media set before the original trilogy which then got retconned by everything Lucas did since the prequels. And concerning the sequels, I do not see how they diminish the concepts of Jedi training at all. There are reasons in those films for characters being as powerful as they are, even if they are unconventional.
At the very least, the Sequels (unlike DISC) still *look* like Star Wars, like they are still set in the same Galaxy. At the uninteresting ass end of said Galaxy, but still...
to be fair, in 2017, John De Lancie was still working with Hasbro on one or two of their cartoon series. But I have to agree that a call to him would have done CBS a great service. They could have also gotten Patrick Stewart on the phone. As Darth Vader would put it, I find their lack of dedication disturbing.
I agree with you on that and the fact they skip the head ridges business and remove the Klingons honor system is only one of many problems throughout Discovery...so many ppl have tried to get it canceled, there is even a lawsuit (so I heard) because of there lack of imagination that they had to steal from others. And I'm not just talking about the game with the tardigrade in it, but directly lifting from the Orville's both characters and storylines, I mean seriously the creator of the world is a big Star Trek fan and used to be on several different at least one that I can name Star Trek shows including Enterprise. The problem is that they have connected Discovery with Picard and that's where the problem comes in Picard does have a better story arc although one can see certain glitches there too but it's not so glaringly loud as with discovery. The saddest part about the whole trek genre is nobody ever bothered to really do their homework and what I mean by that is there was enough scientific things available that would allow for characters like data to have more of a humanoid body and then what we are even given in Picard. By the way they're Golem is a direct theft from the Sci-Fi show known as Eureka including down to the memory Etc being transferred into said Golem and it becoming the person that it was created to be. but I suppose in this day and age with people don't really read and people don't really watch good science fiction that nobody would have noticed this. It's the same thing with the tardigrade the first time a tardigrade does exist he is in the episode of TNG concerning a certain member of the Betazoid and an Alien sentient ship... So they might get out of the lawsuit because of that but again people don't do their science they don't do their research when writing science fiction they just go with whatever they feel like and sometimes it doesn't hold water.
Picard shows the entire Federation as xenophobic and fearful, that alone makes it a disgrace in its own right. It goes against every ideal the show stood for.
Same thing happened with the new star trek that happened with the new star wars films- trying to get a wider audience that doesn't know much about the original films/series and trying to appeal to that wider taste because- 'money'! They've ruined the franchises and mostly alienated old and new would be fans as a result.
The last paragraph sounds like the speech of the warrior that led the overthrow of L'rell, leading to the subsequent subjugation of women among Klingons for a generation and leading to war with the Federation again before the Organians intervened. Such great speech, and yet it is because of you that we must suffer under the shackles of a treaty of peace with those human P'tagh and their Federation allies!
When asked about the Klingon's is the Star Trek Movie I, James Doohan suggested it was a reaction to Tribbles. The unethical experiments on humanoids by Klingon Zora (The Savage Curtain), in the Fan Base Next Voyages, that Human DNA was mixed by Zora experiments to improve Klingons (and thus the human appearance). Also, you didn't mention Star Trek animated series by Filmation. As to CBS series, it came off as a J J Abrams reboot (complete with Lens flares), and the Suits and Execs at CBS/Paramount attitude is "We know what's best for "The New Audience" and F-You long term fans, and BTW we want fantastic special effects (alla "Jar Jar" Abrams reboot of Star Trek)...and didn't listen to the experts about what wouldn't fly with the Fan Base that perpetuated , and financed the Franchise based on Gene Roddenberry's vision.
As to the Star Trek Film Kelvin Time line attempt bring resurrect the Movie series, it meerly retold the first voyage of the enterprise, retold another story (Space Seed)...even the actors in the "New' Franchise" didn't want to sign on and make another film. The Captain Pike Years, or hell, the Captain April years had potentionial but here's where See B(ull) S(hit) failed. They copied the rebooted Dr. Who series (make everything episodic, not follow TOS-TNG-Enterprise-DS-9-Voyage, encapsulated episodes.) The Spore Drive in Science Fiction/Fantasy has to be the worst idea since George Lucas pulled Mitochlorians (sic) out of his arse with his little finger in the Star Wars prequels (Mystical or quasi religious aspect of the Force had a stake driven through its heart, it's bacteria like yogurt culture) And Yes I mentioned SW Prequels, as CBS didn't observe you can cause more damage to a franchise by misguided off-the-wall inventions not found in the original storyline and premises. And although an accomplished actress who portrayed Michael (why do people give male names to female children) Burnham had a poorly written and Anti-Star Trek value character, I hated the character from the inception, not because she was a Woman, a Woman of Color, had the role been assigned to a WASP male, I wouldn't have felt any different, as mentioned in this video, the series revolved around this character, not about the ship and the crew (TOS, TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, etc. I saw the freebee episodes and thought CBS is copying Franchise killer J. J. Abrams, complete with attitude. As to Star Wars Kennedy and Abrams stepped into deep Banta doo-doo, because they didn't listen to the fans, and kept Luke Skywalker out of the film, etc.) CBS had two years to figure out the mistakes Disney made in the SW sequel, and couldn't have tried harder to clone everyone had they tried. That the rest of the world could see the new Star Trek Series for free third episode onward, and the US viewers had to pay for CBS streaming service (or use a Virtual I P address), I am all for paying for content, but when the first two episodes "bombed", (CBS went with Abrams blowing up planets ploy as in the reboot Star Trek) I wasn't even tempted to get VPN to view by VPN. The image of the spinning like a top Starship I saw on UA-cam (TOS tried to have some reasonable/credible physics) should have injured and/or killed members of the crew. CBS isn't Disney (that can afford the gaffs in their feature film franchise for another audience of loyal SF individuals). As to Picard (Patrick Stewart bailing out CBS's ass after being told and CBS not listening what to do with Discovery from the experts and fans and doing the exact opposite), CBS did try to make amends, the network has made its CBS All Access show Picard free for everybody during the pandemic, but I am too busy work to watch.
Why does everyone hate on Janeway and Voyager? She only broke the Prime Directive 30 times or so. But she did invent a magical photon torpedo replicator. And possibly provoke the temporal cold war. And annihilate the Borg.
Nicely done, though I would add a bit more about the TOS era. The shift from that era to the films was drastic, not only in look but in culture. You touch on this, of course, but a bit more on the three major Klingons (Kor, Kang, Koliath) as well as the few random ones (e.g., in Friday's Child and A Private Little War), would offer a more diverse approach to the Klingons (with the three original major Klingons, we have three different presentation of militarism and honor). Even subordinates or minor Klingons who cowered or had no honor could be explored. The TAS portrayal would also be fascinating to explore. It is important to remember that the TOS Klingons were the norm for over a decade (until TMP) and, like the other motifs in Trek, enlivened through fan culture, non-canonical fictions (comics, novels, art). A short look at other non-canon portrayals such as DC Comics Star Trek run (with the first Klingon to serve in Starfleet) and especially the novel The Final Reflection, would also add much to this evolution of the Klingons in the 1980s leading up to Worf. Oh my only major question about your video is the mention of ST:V as non-canon. I've never heard that before. From my understanding, it's canon as it was on screen.
8:03 to 8:50 The First Klingon to have an United Federation of Planets Starfleet Command Starship named after him The Excelsior Class Starship U.S.S. Gorkon NCC-40512.
@@21Piloteer Says the non-Trek fan. If you don't think Star Trek has always been about social justice then you're a fool. Also, its very Star Trek. Get over it. You're free to not like it, but don't pretend its something its not to make yourself feel better.
The klingon evolution in STD is far simpler to explain. There was a licensing split between CBS and Viacom that resulted in them both owning star Trek, but requiring "new" trek series had to be like 20 or 25% "different". That's entirely how we got Space orcs.
I hear what you are saying about Klingon honor. The issue I have is with your timeline. Is it not possible that Lorel's ability to take over the planet caused them to develop a culture that is opposed to Romulan intervention in the future? After the Emperor of the Mirror Universe forced her to take control or be utterly destroyed, did Lorel have any other honorable choice but to save her whole race? You have left holes open here.
Worf was an adult was his father was branded a traitor. The only reason he wasn't sent to Qo'noS was because the Federation was told all his family was killed. That's why he was raised by human parents. Duras was played by Patrick Massett by the way.
Absolutely love Star Trek discovery and discovery Klingons in my opinion 100% improvement in all the ways to all the previous Klingons. But do agree they should added connections to the previous lore and should make half of the high council look more like next generation Klingon and split the population of the other houses Klingons to appear more humans due to the disease. But overall looks and new stuff absolutely love discovery Klingons.
The answer is that STD isn’t real Star Trek. At best it’s not in the TOS/TNG universe, but in the kelvin timeline. Discovery and Picard and lower decks is not trek, it’s Drek. It will not respect or even try to build on what came before, it will push an agenda and make up ridiculous crap and call it canon. Our beloved franchises are in the hands of people who want to destroy it.
See, "Star Trek: Discovery Officially Makes The Kelvin Timeline Canon" Apparently STD claims to be in the Primetime line but did make the Kelvin timeline canon. I have a different view. I think when a corporation takes over, I'm no longer obligated to accept what they assert is canon. STD isn't Canon and the Kelvin Universe isn't Canon to the original Star Trek. I can't speak to STD very much because I've never seen it and I haven't even watched reactions to it. It's difficult to unsee things. But people I trusted who have watched it have confirmed my suspicions.
Thank you! Interesting content; and well-presented! One nitpick; for whatever it's worth; originally fans took the title of "'Trekies."' At least until the Satuday night, when William Shatner; suggested we all; "get a life!" and made all of Star Trek fandom, a bit self-conscious. It was around this time that, "'Treker"' came into common usage. I think it was an effort to clean up our act; and sound a bit more respectable, and serious. I know that that sounds silly today; but at the time it was very important that the rest of the science-fiction community; at least; know that we were very serious fans!😎😻😷
I have always preferred the TOS era Klingons. Appearing more or less human, to me they represented an evil form of humanity...the type of people we see in feudal and warlord societies. You could equate the Klingon leaders to people like Idi Amin, Gengis Khan, et-al. When they made them up to look more alien for TMP, SFS and TNG they looked more of a fantasy and therefore, to me at least, less threatening.
Im still waiting for someone to make a stand alone klingon movie.It makes no sense how a second fiddle to starfleet has more culture and backstory than the so called heros.If only i knew how to write a script id try to push it.I have an idea but never seem to have the time to work on it.I was hoping to maybe somehow drop a line to someone that could pass the idea to Tarantino who would be perfect to make a klingon movie.
Shoe polish? Where did you get this info? Fred Phillips was a professional makeup artist. Max factor panstik was the probable choice in the original series
At the beginning, you liken the Klingons to the Soviet Union,and I get that. I recall an interview with Gene Roddenberry and he said he based them on feudal Japanese. Part of that is because of his war services in the Pacific Theatre. In the '60s, Japan was not as influential as it is today, and the USSR was the treat. You said they have an Asian appearance. Most of Russia is closer to Europe than to the East Asians. I would say the original Klingons are more yellow equating them to the Japanese.
You know I really love the Klingons but I don't like the way that they have been handled over the years. It's like the explanation as to why they are what they are some afterthought they threw in I mean. Okay they didn't know it was going to be as big as they did I understand. But they could have made a much better explanation as to why they are the way they are when they can move forward with the storyline better. For Imagine that the Klingons had a secret program where they were constantly trying to improve themselves. Each batch is produced like over the course of 100 to 200 years as sort of a test to see what they need to change for the next batch. The previous batch that is now outdated. Would go to an area of space that's riddled with dead zones and anomalies and has a weird effect of drawing abandoned ships into its area like a ocean gyra.! These Klingons have taken these ships and made their own fleet and still have a loose allegiance to the empire but because of the region of space and their exile to it have no real contact with the empire. I mean we need to be taken into a totally new realm of Star Trek I'm sick of seeing starfleet. Officers in their things we need deep space nine type gritty all out giant space battle of The primitives. Enough of Star Trek's perfections the universe can't all be like that.
"United States Starship Enterprise"???? That's United Star Ship...U.S.S. Enterprise or as Captain Christopher Pike said "United Space Ship Enterprise".
You got to remember something the lizard like crayons for the first and then the human light Klingon for second or Star Trek and then work came on Deep Space Nine and the Enterprise don't get them backwards
I do not care for Discovery at all. My problem is not with the actors but rather those who write the storyline CBS thinks viewers will pay to watch that junk. Wrong!!!
the only way discovery universe works and is enjoyed is if it is watched a totally alt universe no matter what the creative team say, once i did that after 3 attempts i was able to , not enjoy, but get on board with it, the same with picard, and its nothing to do with being a fan of trek of old because i embraced the jj verse but this is the only way i can watch it
This sort of thing is precisely why Enterprise was rejected by the fans. The premise of that series was that it was before Kirk. But it made no sense. Archers equipment (tricorders plus ship sensors and bridge/ship equipment) were better than Kirks. This made no sense. The writers/producers tried to incorporate the progression of technology into this series even though it was before Kirk. What the writers and producers forgot was that as story tellers, their context had to fit the story they were telling. Instead they made a ship that was before Kirks, technologically superior and by no small margin. Even non technology context were completely out of place such as the doctor. Bones was a stock standard military doctor with a similarly equipped sickbay. Flox on the other hand had a zoo in his. Yes I accept a degree of fictional license here but the flox character was equally misplaced and did not fit either. The entire Xindi story line that stretched for an entire series was also totally misplaced. Nothing like that happened in the original series. In fact even 2 episode story lines in the original series were rare. The producers should have recognised this sort of thing and confined themselves to the context of the original series. They tried to apply story telling techniques that came after TOS to a series that was set before TOS and it just didn't work. Even the design of the shuttlepods didn't fit given their sleek design vs the boxy enterprise shuttles.
The agment virus does sort of explain how Klingons change physically between Original Trek and Next Generation Trek. But, recent changes just plain ridiculous.
a continued reason i don't watch "Discovery" and don't accept it as canon. I watched 5 minutes and said "who is this bi-ch Why is she yelling at the captain? This isn't Trek, it's garbage". Same for Picard...the Admiral lady screaming at Picard made me say "Who is this bi-ch? She's yelling at PICARD! And why does he have a dog?" TURNED OFF.
I agree with everything you say. But when you play a game like d&d. Do you as GM follow the game rules. Like they were written in stone or having fun playing d&d is more important than the rules of the game. In Star Trek canon are the written in stone rules. Discovery and Picard tried something new and different. Breaking certain star trek canon rules. Many fans feel they were for a better word holy. Canon when telling a story gives you a path and boundaries and can act like a straight jacket as well. Canon is always going to be a wall for new ideas. You leave the wall their or you climb over it, go around it or they to go through it. How good your story is. Doesn't matter if you break major canon. But if you can bend canon without breaking canon. Your story has a chance on it merits. But how to bend and not break canon in Star Trek would make for an excellent guide. For hundreds, ifn't thousand and maybe a million or more would be Star Trek authors.
But there ist a difference in "bending" canon to bring in new ideas, and if so, a clever bend would bei preferable, and sending established canon to hell, even if it's the sole reason why this franchise existed for so long in the first place. This and the fact, that "New Ideas", are a cheap excuse for third class screen writers to not be able to write something close to a true star trek script. There have to be new ideas and development to the franchise but it has an heir that has to be respected, if it's not for all the people who worked and dedicated their lifes to it, to make us talk about star trek until this year and time.
@@kaiso7322 All true true. If we can just base our feeling on their story and the merits their. We would be a better fan base. Rather than how many times they broke canon or what major canon idea they rolled over.
When important Canon is broken, all dramatic tension drains out of the story. For example we're watching a spy Thriller and there's a bomb under the table and We Know It And the two people are talking and the timer is ticking down. And then the bomb explodes and it turns out it wasn't under the table to begin with but under a table across town with two other people who we haven't even seen in the movie yet.
Rigid Star Trek continuity had cut short the popularity of the franchise. Kelvin Star Trek, and Star Trek Discovery was breathing new life and popularity into the franchise again.
Federation equals United States?- ok just to let you know the US is a small part of the United Nations and NATO etc. But then again you probably dont even have a passport?
Didn't Kruge take hostages to extort Genesis from Kirk? Also, Kruge wasn't simply out for glory, but for the defense of his people. He is a very complex character, even going as far to have his own wife commit a necessary sacrifice to keep Genesis' info from falling into the hands of rival powers. But then again, how is the blackmail of L'Rells' for power?
It's simple, STD is not canon and nothing portrayed on it ever happened. maybe it's a piece of historical fiction that Wesley Crusher read while growing up, or that Jake Cisco wrote. It comes no closer to canon than that.
In the original series we saw a Klingon female as a Klingon Officer, Mara, and also Kang's wife, in "Day of the Dove" (edited) also in Star Trek V a female Klingon was shown as a senior bridge officer.
For some reason she had sex appeal.
Michael Dorn also appeared as the Klingon defense attorney for Kirk and McCoy
Although it was never confirmed on screen, publicity materials for Star Trek VI indicated that Colonel Worf was intended to be the grandfather of his Next Generation namesake, and the father of Mogh.
J.G. Hertzler appeared as Capt Archer's defense attorney
mog was know as son of worf . That lawyer that defended Kirk and mccoy in the Klingon prison was worfs grandfather
@@RevMraj That lawyer's name was also Worf. TNG Worf was named after him.
Col. Worf
I love that since everyone hates discovery (personally I couldn't give less of a shit) everyone can now join me and think hey enterprise wasn't that bad let's go watch it
I always tell people within the trek family to start on the second season if the first season turned them off. It finds its legs and becomes a really solid show for the most part.
@@WestSeaSpirit no
Well, I think you just said everything I feel about STD direction with the series. Fantastic video
What a fitting acronym! Lol
@@tweetypie1978 right lol!?😂 Ima start calling it that now lol
@@sikox209 I refused to even try to watch it! That's not any star trek I recognise, it's been made for people who've never watched any series or even an episode of star trek in their life from what scenes and trailers I've seen 😞😡
Those are not Klingons. They are Klingoffs.
I finally get the joke from ds9 when they go back in time to TOS era. When Worf says "we don't like to talk about that" when asked why the klingons there looks so different.
He said, "it is a long story" and "we do not discuss it with outsiders."
I disagree with your final conclusion regarding the Klingons' acceptance of L'rell. Ezri established that the Klingon empire had accepted corrupt and incompetent leadership for years. This may have even taken place during the lifetime of Curzon, so she would have had a very good view of the situation. She was respectful about it, but the gist of what she said was that the Klingons were full of shit, that they paid lip service to ideas like "honor" and were not as independently-minded as they let on. It was mostly bluster, and I think there is a parallel there that Discovery attempts to draw with real life in the highly religious.
The highly religious are often the worst hypocrites; they preach values that they themselves do not live by (although they pretend to), and accept the most corrupt and immoral as their leaders. This is the Klingon Empire of the 2250's and 60's.
I always figured it was something else. Worf had a child's view of things. Like if you ask some 5 year old: "Do you live in the best country on Earth with the best government?" and they'd probably say yes. Like 9/10 times. They'd also say they believe in the Omniscient being of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Kids, like Worf was when his knowledge of the Klingon Empire was cut off, live in an illusion. The world as people wish it was at times rather than what it really was.
Dax, having lived among Klingons for so long as an adult and an ambassador, saw the world as it was. Dax knew that most Klingons were like Duras by comparison. They were boastful, boisterous, lazy, shiftless, liars, cheats, and other "dishonorable" things. Because that's how things are done.
But it's not the stories they tell children.
Worf grew up believing in Santa Claus, as it were.
But most fans don't really seem to realize that was the case. And what that means for the Klingon PoV they built up over TNG through Worf's eyes. Even though it was a regular, recurring plot point in both TNG and DS9 that Worf just wasn't a Klingon, as the video did mention.
Because he was a child.
If you should ever do an update, there was a little "blink and you'll miss it" type of thing in "The Trouble with Tribbles", when Kirk question's Koloth's stated purpose of being at the station as "shore leave." Koloth responds, "Captain, we Klingons are not as luxury-minded as you Earthers. We do not equip our ships with, how shall I say it, non-essentials.", making a female shape gesture with his hands. Since Mara ("Day of the Dove") was Kang's wife, and probably exceptional in her abilities to serve as science officer, presumably, the Klingons would have certain situations where the women became "essentials" instead.
My main problem with the STD Klingons is not really the look, although they are extremely badly designed, but the culture. It just doesn't feel Klingon. I rather liked the Into Darkness Klingons. We could see that only the leader was bald. All of the other Klingons had hair and beards. Facial hair, with some few exceptions, has been the main feature of all Klingons since TOS. Bald beardless Klingons? Doesn't work.
Honestly, Discovery would have been received far better if it had not been Star Trek. The creators obviously wanted nothing to do with previous lore. The series only uses the Trek name, and characters like Spock for marketing reasons, not because they actually care to respect what made these things great to begin with. A completely fresh series would have been far better. They would have gotten no blow-back for the amount of non-trek things they wanted to do. And they would have been able to focus more on improving the show itself instead of trying to find way to shoe-horn in lore they obviously care nothing for. TV crowds are fairly generous to new Sci-fi shows, it would have been win-win for everyone. But no. We live in the wrong timeline.
Hosently dude. Discovery wasnt a prequel but set in the way 25th century those klingons weren't klingons but another race, And Micheal Burnham was literally anyone else but Spocks serect human sister the show could have been better received by fans.
A few simple little changes.
@@KingreX32 I'm not so sure. Nothing feels Star Trek in this show. I forced myself to watch all of Season 1, Season 2 was way too awful that I stopped watching halfway through and the Season 3 storyline was so bloody stupid that I only watched two episodes. Anyone who knows anything about Star Trek knows that not everyone requires dilithium crystals to power their warp drives. The one episode set on Vulcan (can't remember the new name of the planet) was so stupid. The Romulans never used dilithium. Couldn't the Vulcans have used singularities like them? No. For some reason the Romulans were as clueless as the Vulcans... And of course Burnham once again is better than everyone.
This is the same argument I've made a few times about what STD is. It's not Trek - it's a different, modern, action-based sci-fi program with a Star Trek paint job. This should not have been a Trek show, ever. Were it not branded that way, I still wouldn't have been terribly interested. Likely, it would have been just another sci-fi show I'd have looked into and ultimately dismissed after the pilot episode (which is what happened anyway).
I felt the same way about the new Battlestar Galactica.
As with Star Wars doctor who and countless other franchises, destroying beloved movies shows and books and their traditions is the whole
Point. Contemporary leftists are characterized by hatred and resentment for anything that has come before them. especially the work of far more talented and skilled artists.
Star Trek Discovery Klingons were a result of CBS and Viacom copyright battle in 2015, after they separated years ago, they produced a mangled "copyright" share and payments to use certain rights but not all of them. It was the core reason of all the changes to the Klingon appearance, anything after The Motion Picture and thereof including TNG/DS9/ENT. etc could not be used on Discovery. They were told to come up with new imagery and could use the 1960s names or anything script-based but not visuals. In season 2 after the dust was settled and CEOfiring, you could see the slow restoration back to the original Trek Klingon mythology.
Yup and the improvements evolution(as tv show/movie technology improves) are absolutely great.
I always saw it as T'Kuvma's followers had surgically modified themselves in an attempt to purge the Quvat virus that made them more human-like in TOS.
Worf on Ds9 about the reason the Klingon's appearance changed...
"We do not discuss it with outsiders!"
Lmfao, I thought he said "we do not like discuss that Klingon era" like he was ashamed 🤣
@@stasylumbassist1 he did say "it's a shamefull period in klingon history" I believe
Ice been watching random clips on youtube (well, at least, "random" as decided by the almighty algorithm) and unless I'm just crazy (or stupid. Or just incredibly unobservant) I'm pretty sure that even Worf's forehead ridges got wayyyyyyyy way way WAY less pronounced going from TnG and DS9..... I mean, they did, right?
@@stevenstuart152 Yes, they certainly did, which shows that they are a body feature that changes with age. Perhaps they are secondary sex characteristics.
@@odysseusrex5908 Just an improved make-up design. The TV make-up was crude but the much lower resolution of TV made it OK- mostly.
There must be some mistake, because there are no Klingons in Discovery. Also, STD is not Star Trek.
It's a steaming pile of dog poopy for SJWs.
And Star Trek Voyager isn't Star Trek because it's not Deep Space Nine. And DS9 isn't TNG. And TNG is nothing like TOS.
@@waynemarvin5661 TNG DS9 and VOY all honored the Canon history of the TOS era. Disco butchered it.
@@robertmartinjr.6292 well said... I'm blocking Discovery out of mind as anything trek
Yes there is😂
I always reckoned the physical differences were because the KE was a polyglot, multi-species empire just like the UFP.
Good theory. Klingon playable factions in Star Trek Online include Gorn, Lethean, Naasicaan, and Orion. It's been a bit since I've played regularly, so who knows. [There is more xeno diversity in non-player crew members, suggesting that almost anyone in the local stellar neighborhood and beyond have interest in honor & Glory due to Fleet circumstances.]
5:01 United States Starship Enterprise? 😳
Key to development of the Klingons was James Doohan, who developed the Klingon language.
Star Trek was resurrected by Star Wars, when Paramount sought to tap into the same science fiction demand that had been stoked by Star Wars.
I think that Worf represents the ideals that Klingons claim to hold while many Klingons say the words but no they don't mean them.
If you watch interviews with Russians on the street, you'll see the same kind of doublethink. Funniest was the young man who spoke very pro-military and when they pulled out the recruitment forms he literally turned and ran away.
The Klingons talk about honour but many of them behave and ways that violate their own declared rules for what constitutes honor. In d&d terms, I often think of them as a chaotic neutral Society. If you're powerful, then anything you do is Honorable. And if you want to do something, then you easily rationalize it as honorable. Other Klingons you don't like are dishonorable. And Shakespeare was a Klingon.
L'Rel isn't a coward. She was brave. I lived through the nuclear threat of the 80s, one can assume many Klingons like L'Rel did so similarly. The war against the Federation would have dangerous & unknown consequences to the Empire. Klingons have plenty of enemies. She was using a preexistent bureaucratic tactic to derive pacification. She united the Houses to little acclaim, that much is obvious. Her harsh tactic would have seemed obvious if not brutal. One that any Klingon or slave of the Empire could recognize. Discovery basically uses this tactic to remind us of the merits of today's actual world, something extremely vital for us to remember. *There is no planet B.*
"Tony Todd". Candyman, Night of the Living Dead. Has a bunch of voice over roles including Darkseid.
He voiced his Klingon character in Star Trek Online as well. A lot of cast from Star Trek voiced their characters in STO.
The evolution of the Klingons on TNG was very popular. They expanded their presence very slowly starting with Worf then a ship with some in cryogenics and then his brother but the best was on DS9 , when they time jumped to the Tribble episode. Though after a while they exploited them too much .
Actually, alot of what ST:D did was taken from the novels of John M. Ford, whose early novels (mostly written in the 1970s) explored Klingon culture in a way that diverged greatly from what would be considered canon. Ford's Klingon's honored their dead with the "Black FLeet," and the "Naked Stars" and came from a planet covered with elaborate cloud cover. ST:D tries to ressurect a lot of this. However, the change in appearance and demeanor is all ST:D and has no precedent.
As far as I know, the Klingons' appearance in DISC is based on unused sketches made for "Star Trek: The Motion Picture":
forgottentrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Klingon-costume-concept-art-1.jpg
@@kuribayashi84 and they look freaking amazing 100% better then tos and big hit damn that look amazing when you compare it to next generation what good because it was a improvement but compared to ST:D in my opinion it from makeup of (next generation)-6/10 to (ST:D)-8/10 truly wonder what the next improvements evolution will give use fir Klingons.
This is a great video essay and a good line of logic!
Oh those Duras sisters!
Very interesting. I tried to watch Discovery but could not stomach it. To me it's just as bad and non-canon as the Disney Star Wars. I was born in 1965 so I grew up with Star Trek and I have always loved the Klingon's.
Wait, so you’re completely fine with Star Wars Episodes I-III, but not anything since Episode VII? That’s... odd, to say the least.
@@robinanwaldt I don't think the prequels are very good films (1 and 2 are particularly bad) But at the time those films came about the broader star wars universe hadn't been explored that much so most of what they added to the lore felt more like an expansion than a retcon (with a few minor exceptions ofc). The disney sequels basically takes what we knew about jedi training and throws it out the window.
MaMastoast I highly disagree about the retcons. There already was a not insignificant amount of Star Wars media set before the original trilogy which then got retconned by everything Lucas did since the prequels.
And concerning the sequels, I do not see how they diminish the concepts of Jedi training at all. There are reasons in those films for characters being as powerful as they are, even if they are unconventional.
At the very least, the Sequels (unlike DISC) still *look* like Star Wars, like they are still set in the same Galaxy. At the uninteresting ass end of said Galaxy, but still...
Thanks for your well-researched review of the Klingons.
Something you never want when sitting in the bathroom: Klingons.
Many times, radio astronomers have heard the sound of klingon opera coming from Uranus.
The good news is that if there are klingons around Uranus, there won't be romulans around Uranus.
to be fair, in 2017, John De Lancie was still working with Hasbro on one or two of their cartoon series. But I have to agree that a call to him would have done CBS a great service. They could have also gotten Patrick Stewart on the phone. As Darth Vader would put it, I find their lack of dedication disturbing.
You forgot the Klingons in the Jar Jar alt universe movies
I agree with you on that and the fact they skip the head ridges business and remove the Klingons honor system is only one of many problems throughout Discovery...so many ppl have tried to get it canceled, there is even a lawsuit (so I heard) because of there lack of imagination that they had to steal from others. And I'm not just talking about the game with the tardigrade in it, but directly lifting from the Orville's both characters and storylines, I mean seriously the creator of the world is a big Star Trek fan and used to be on several different at least one that I can name Star Trek shows including Enterprise. The problem is that they have connected Discovery with Picard and that's where the problem comes in Picard does have a better story arc although one can see certain glitches there too but it's not so glaringly loud as with discovery.
The saddest part about the whole trek genre is nobody ever bothered to really do their homework and what I mean by that is there was enough scientific things available that would allow for characters like data to have more of a humanoid body and then what we are even given in Picard. By the way they're Golem is a direct theft from the Sci-Fi show known as Eureka including down to the memory Etc being transferred into said Golem and it becoming the person that it was created to be. but I suppose in this day and age with people don't really read and people don't really watch good science fiction that nobody would have noticed this. It's the same thing with the tardigrade the first time a tardigrade does exist he is in the episode of TNG concerning a certain member of the Betazoid and an Alien sentient ship... So they might get out of the lawsuit because of that but again people don't do their science they don't do their research when writing science fiction they just go with whatever they feel like and sometimes it doesn't hold water.
Picard shows the entire Federation as xenophobic and fearful, that alone makes it a disgrace in its own right. It goes against every ideal the show stood for.
Same thing happened with the new star trek that happened with the new star wars films- trying to get a wider audience that doesn't know much about the original films/series and trying to appeal to that wider taste because- 'money'! They've ruined the franchises and mostly alienated old and new would be fans as a result.
Well done!!! Enjoyed the video!! Ka’Plaa
The last paragraph sounds like the speech of the warrior that led the overthrow of L'rell, leading to the subsequent subjugation of women among Klingons for a generation and leading to war with the Federation again before the Organians intervened. Such great speech, and yet it is because of you that we must suffer under the shackles of a treaty of peace with those human P'tagh and their Federation allies!
Honor is a lost concept these days.
Exactly, my feelings also
When asked about the Klingon's is the Star Trek Movie I, James Doohan suggested it was a reaction to Tribbles. The unethical experiments on humanoids by Klingon Zora (The Savage Curtain), in the Fan Base Next Voyages, that Human DNA was mixed by Zora experiments to improve Klingons (and thus the human appearance). Also, you didn't mention Star Trek animated series by Filmation. As to CBS series, it came off as a J J Abrams reboot (complete with Lens flares), and the Suits and Execs at CBS/Paramount attitude is "We know what's best for "The New Audience" and F-You long term fans, and BTW we want fantastic special effects (alla "Jar Jar" Abrams reboot of Star Trek)...and didn't listen to the experts about what wouldn't fly with the Fan Base that perpetuated , and financed the Franchise based on Gene Roddenberry's vision.
As to the Star Trek Film Kelvin Time line attempt bring resurrect the Movie series, it meerly retold the first voyage of the enterprise, retold another story (Space Seed)...even the actors in the "New' Franchise" didn't want to sign on and make another film. The Captain Pike Years, or hell, the Captain April years had potentionial but here's where See B(ull) S(hit) failed. They copied the rebooted Dr. Who series (make everything episodic, not follow TOS-TNG-Enterprise-DS-9-Voyage, encapsulated episodes.) The Spore Drive in Science Fiction/Fantasy has to be the worst idea since George Lucas pulled Mitochlorians (sic) out of his arse with his little finger in the Star Wars prequels (Mystical or quasi religious aspect of the Force had a stake driven through its heart, it's bacteria like yogurt culture) And Yes I mentioned SW Prequels, as CBS didn't observe you can cause more damage to a franchise by misguided off-the-wall inventions not found in the original storyline and premises. And although an accomplished actress who portrayed Michael (why do people give male names to female children) Burnham had a poorly written and Anti-Star Trek value character, I hated the character from the inception, not because she was a Woman, a Woman of Color, had the role been assigned to a WASP male, I wouldn't have felt any different, as mentioned in this video, the series revolved around this character, not about the ship and the crew (TOS, TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, etc. I saw the freebee episodes and thought CBS is copying Franchise killer J. J. Abrams, complete with attitude. As to Star Wars Kennedy and Abrams stepped into deep Banta doo-doo, because they didn't listen to the fans, and kept Luke Skywalker out of the film, etc.) CBS had two years to figure out the mistakes Disney made in the SW sequel, and couldn't have tried harder to clone everyone had they tried. That the rest of the world could see the new Star Trek Series for free third episode onward, and the US viewers had to pay for CBS streaming service (or use a Virtual I P address), I am all for paying for content, but when the first two episodes "bombed", (CBS went with Abrams blowing up planets ploy as in the reboot Star Trek) I wasn't even tempted to get VPN to view by VPN. The image of the spinning like a top Starship I saw on UA-cam (TOS tried to have some reasonable/credible physics) should have injured and/or killed members of the crew. CBS isn't Disney (that can afford the gaffs in their feature film franchise for another audience of loyal SF individuals). As to Picard (Patrick Stewart bailing out CBS's ass after being told and CBS not listening what to do with Discovery from the experts and fans and doing the exact opposite), CBS did try to make amends, the network has made its CBS All Access show Picard free for everybody during the pandemic, but I am too busy work to watch.
pretty sure this is why they took discovery into the future, no more ways to screw with things if everything is new...
Klingons are great party goers
I had to check the video date because despite saying 1080p, this feels like a 240p video from 2006.
I basically wont submit to CBS and their way of airing Discovery I havent watched a minute of it. Star Trek ended when Deep Space Nine ended
Why does everyone hate on Janeway and Voyager? She only broke the Prime Directive 30 times or so. But she did invent a magical photon torpedo replicator. And possibly provoke the temporal cold war. And annihilate the Borg.
Y'all cryfans just want to be pampered and it shows.
What about Torres and her daughter miral paris
Nicely done, though I would add a bit more about the TOS era. The shift from that era to the films was drastic, not only in look but in culture. You touch on this, of course, but a bit more on the three major Klingons (Kor, Kang, Koliath) as well as the few random ones (e.g., in Friday's Child and A Private Little War), would offer a more diverse approach to the Klingons (with the three original major Klingons, we have three different presentation of militarism and honor). Even subordinates or minor Klingons who cowered or had no honor could be explored. The TAS portrayal would also be fascinating to explore. It is important to remember that the TOS Klingons were the norm for over a decade (until TMP) and, like the other motifs in Trek, enlivened through fan culture, non-canonical fictions (comics, novels, art). A short look at other non-canon portrayals such as DC Comics Star Trek run (with the first Klingon to serve in Starfleet) and especially the novel The Final Reflection, would also add much to this evolution of the Klingons in the 1980s leading up to Worf. Oh my only major question about your video is the mention of ST:V as non-canon. I've never heard that before. From my understanding, it's canon as it was on screen.
At 5:02- "United States Starship' Enterprise"??
8:03 to 8:50 The First Klingon to have an United Federation of Planets Starfleet Command Starship named after him The Excelsior Class Starship U.S.S. Gorkon NCC-40512.
Star Trek 5 for all its faults IS CERTAINLY CANON. Not sure where you heard it wasn't.
5:03 United States Starship? What?
15 minutes to say Discovery is awful...thumbs up! Spot on. Discovery is not Star Trek.
I watch it, but I agree. Discovery is nothing more than a social justice warrior message.
@@21Piloteer Says the non-Trek fan. If you don't think Star Trek has always been about social justice then you're a fool.
Also, its very Star Trek. Get over it. You're free to not like it, but don't pretend its something its not to make yourself feel better.
The klingon evolution in STD is far simpler to explain. There was a licensing split between CBS and Viacom that resulted in them both owning star Trek, but requiring "new" trek series had to be like 20 or 25% "different". That's entirely how we got Space orcs.
Then if they couldn't do them right they shouldn't have done them at all.
I like they way Klingons use to look in the cinematic universe
Torres, from Voyager, gets no respect.
I can relate to Wolf as i often feel that way where I live as people treat me as an outsider
I hear what you are saying about Klingon honor. The issue I have is with your timeline. Is it not possible that Lorel's ability to take over the planet caused them to develop a culture that is opposed to Romulan intervention in the future? After the Emperor of the Mirror Universe forced her to take control or be utterly destroyed, did Lorel have any other honorable choice but to save her whole race? You have left holes open here.
I never understood, why The Star Trek fanchise, took a big dump on the Vucans.
They were too OP, they had to fall for the humans to fill that power vacuum
Good video broski!
Didn't delaney say he would never play Q again?
$
Really didn’t need to answer the change in Klingons. We just pretended they always looked like movie/tng era Klingons.
John da lancie as Q should wave his hands and put this dumpster fire of Klingon portrayal on Discovery to the ash heap of history
And to think that Star Trek: Discovery is referred to as ST:D ! We all know the OTHER "STD" that nobody ever wants to get!
what's worse, there's no cure for this std
Great lesson I enjoyed it 😀
Worf was an adult was his father was branded a traitor. The only reason he wasn't sent to Qo'noS was because the Federation was told all his family was killed. That's why he was raised by human parents. Duras was played by Patrick Massett by the way.
Discovery should have had the Tholians as the villains. There was a lot to expand there.
Absolutely love Star Trek discovery and discovery Klingons in my opinion 100% improvement in all the ways to all the previous Klingons. But do agree they should added connections to the previous lore and should make half of the high council look more like next generation Klingon and split the population of the other houses Klingons to appear more humans due to the disease. But overall looks and new stuff absolutely love discovery Klingons.
Perhaps the Klingons there are the result of attempting to right the mutation of their people and thus have immerged with their new look.
@@mainstreetsaint36 my exact thoughts
@5:05, the “United States Starship”….? Oopsie Doopsie!
STD
Hundreds of years passed? Is it not possible the klingons got their honour after that betrayal? Cultures change constantly. They're not static
Okay, so you can pronounce the Klingon word for success but not Command Kruge (pronounced Cru-g(hard g))? Crazy
Duras didn't kill Kempec
The answer is that STD isn’t real Star Trek. At best it’s not in the TOS/TNG universe, but in the kelvin timeline. Discovery and Picard and lower decks is not trek, it’s Drek.
It will not respect or even try to build on what came before, it will push an agenda and make up ridiculous crap and call it canon. Our beloved franchises are in the hands of people who want to destroy it.
See, "Star Trek: Discovery Officially Makes The Kelvin Timeline Canon"
Apparently STD claims to be in the Primetime line but did make the Kelvin timeline canon.
I have a different view. I think when a corporation takes over, I'm no longer obligated to accept what they assert is canon. STD isn't Canon and the Kelvin Universe isn't Canon to the original Star Trek.
I can't speak to STD very much because I've never seen it and I haven't even watched reactions to it. It's difficult to unsee things. But people I trusted who have watched it have confirmed my suspicions.
Thank you! Interesting content; and well-presented! One nitpick; for whatever it's worth; originally fans took the title of "'Trekies."' At least until the Satuday night, when William Shatner; suggested we all; "get a life!" and made all of Star Trek fandom, a bit self-conscious. It was around this time that, "'Treker"' came into common usage. I think it was an effort to clean up our act; and sound a bit more respectable, and serious. I know that that sounds silly today; but at the time it was very important that the rest of the science-fiction community; at least; know that we were very serious fans!😎😻😷
Gene died after watching ST V ! I had no idea but it wasn't that bad
Honestly never heard of that film until now gonna have to check it out
I have always preferred the TOS era Klingons. Appearing more or less human, to me they represented an evil form of humanity...the type of people we see in feudal and warlord societies. You could equate the Klingon leaders to people like Idi Amin, Gengis Khan, et-al. When they made them up to look more alien for TMP, SFS and TNG they looked more of a fantasy and therefore, to me at least, less threatening.
i think this show is just set in another universe or timeline,the show itsself and the rebooted movies prove this can happen.
Im still waiting for someone to make a stand alone klingon movie.It makes no sense how a second fiddle to starfleet has more culture and backstory than the so called heros.If only i knew how to write a script id try to push it.I have an idea but never seem to have the time to work on it.I was hoping to maybe somehow drop a line to someone that could pass the idea to Tarantino who would be perfect to make a klingon movie.
Write to the network, michael dorn has an idea of worf show set on klingon ship. And mostly within klingon empire. Write to the network to accept it.
Shoe polish? Where did you get this info? Fred Phillips was a professional makeup artist. Max factor panstik was the probable choice in the original series
At the beginning, you liken the Klingons to the Soviet Union,and I get that. I recall an interview with Gene Roddenberry and he said he based them on feudal Japanese. Part of that is because of his war services in the Pacific Theatre. In the '60s, Japan was not as influential as it is today, and the USSR was the treat. You said they have an Asian appearance. Most of Russia is closer to Europe than to the East Asians. I would say the original Klingons are more yellow equating them to the Japanese.
nail on the head, i have tried but i cant get past episode 2. those arent klingons.
Way too many minor and unimportant errors. Not a huge deal but does make it difficult to watch.
Trek V is canon but I say its a shared telepathic dream after they sang Row row row your boat.
You know I really love the Klingons but I don't like the way that they have been handled over the years. It's like the explanation as to why they are what they are some afterthought they threw in I mean. Okay they didn't know it was going to be as big as they did I understand. But they could have made a much better explanation as to why they are the way they are when they can move forward with the storyline better. For
Imagine that the Klingons had a secret program where they were constantly trying to improve themselves. Each batch is produced like over the course of 100 to 200 years as sort of a test to see what they need to change for the next batch. The previous batch that is now outdated. Would go to an area of space that's riddled with dead zones and anomalies and has a weird effect of drawing abandoned ships into its area like a ocean gyra.! These Klingons have taken these ships and made their own fleet and still have a loose allegiance to the empire but because of the region of space and their exile to it have no real contact with the empire. I mean we need to be taken into a totally new realm of Star Trek I'm sick of seeing starfleet. Officers in their things we need deep space nine type gritty all out giant space battle of The primitives. Enough of Star Trek's perfections the universe can't all be like that.
Write to the network, michael dorn has an idea of worf show set on klingon ship. And mostly within klingon empire. Write to the network to accept it.
I HATE the Discovery Klingons. They say the series takes place in the "original" timeline, but let's be honest, it's really the Kelvin timeline.
It is not.
"United States Starship Enterprise"???? That's United Star Ship...U.S.S. Enterprise or as Captain Christopher Pike said "United Space Ship Enterprise".
You got to remember something the lizard like crayons for the first and then the human light Klingon for second or Star Trek and then work came on Deep Space Nine and the Enterprise don't get them backwards
I do not care for Discovery at all. My problem is not with the actors but rather those who write the storyline CBS thinks viewers will pay to watch that junk. Wrong!!!
Plenty of use do and we are loving it
the only way discovery universe works and is enjoyed is if it is watched a totally alt universe no matter what the creative team say, once i did that after 3 attempts i was able to , not enjoy, but get on board with it, the same with picard, and its nothing to do with being a fan of trek of old because i embraced the jj verse but this is the only way i can watch it
5:01 United *States* Starship?
5:02 United States? 🙄 Proofreading please! 👍
This sort of thing is precisely why Enterprise was rejected by the fans. The premise of that series was that it was before Kirk. But it made no sense. Archers equipment (tricorders plus ship sensors and bridge/ship equipment) were better than Kirks. This made no sense. The writers/producers tried to incorporate the progression of technology into this series even though it was before Kirk.
What the writers and producers forgot was that as story tellers, their context had to fit the story they were telling. Instead they made a ship that was before Kirks, technologically superior and by no small margin. Even non technology context were completely out of place such as the doctor. Bones was a stock standard military doctor with a similarly equipped sickbay. Flox on the other hand had a zoo in his. Yes I accept a degree of fictional license here but the flox character was equally misplaced and did not fit either. The entire Xindi story line that stretched for an entire series was also totally misplaced. Nothing like that happened in the original series. In fact even 2 episode story lines in the original series were rare.
The producers should have recognised this sort of thing and confined themselves to the context of the original series. They tried to apply story telling techniques that came after TOS to a series that was set before TOS and it just didn't work. Even the design of the shuttlepods didn't fit given their sleek design vs the boxy enterprise shuttles.
The agment virus does sort of explain how Klingons change physically between Original Trek and Next Generation Trek. But, recent changes just plain ridiculous.
a continued reason i don't watch "Discovery" and don't accept it as canon. I watched 5 minutes and said "who is this bi-ch Why is she yelling at the captain? This isn't Trek, it's garbage".
Same for Picard...the Admiral lady screaming at Picard made me say "Who is this bi-ch? She's yelling at PICARD! And why does he have a dog?"
TURNED OFF.
I agree with everything you say. But when you play a game like d&d. Do you as GM follow the game rules. Like they were written in stone or having fun playing d&d is more important than the rules of the game. In Star Trek canon are the written in stone rules. Discovery and Picard tried something new and different. Breaking certain star trek canon rules. Many fans feel they were for a better word holy. Canon when telling a story gives you a path and boundaries and can act like a straight jacket as well. Canon is always going to be a wall for new ideas. You leave the wall their or you climb over it, go around it or they to go through it. How good your story is. Doesn't matter if you break major canon. But if you can bend canon without breaking canon. Your story has a chance on it merits. But how to bend and not break canon in Star Trek would make for an excellent guide. For hundreds, ifn't thousand and maybe a million or more would be Star Trek authors.
But there ist a difference in "bending" canon to bring in new ideas, and if so, a clever bend would bei preferable, and sending established canon to hell, even if it's the sole reason why this franchise existed for so long in the first place.
This and the fact, that "New Ideas", are a cheap excuse for third class screen writers to not be able to write something close to a true star trek script.
There have to be new ideas and development to the franchise but it has an heir that has to be respected, if it's not for all the people who worked and dedicated their lifes to it, to make us talk about star trek until this year and time.
@@kaiso7322 All true true. If we can just base our feeling on their story and the merits their. We would be a better fan base. Rather than how many times they broke canon or what major canon idea they rolled over.
So very true Alpha breaking down the walls!!
When important Canon is broken, all dramatic tension drains out of the story.
For example we're watching a spy Thriller and there's a bomb under the table and We Know It And the two people are talking and the timer is ticking down.
And then the bomb explodes and it turns out it wasn't under the table to begin with but under a table across town with two other people who we haven't even seen in the movie yet.
Rigid Star Trek continuity had cut short the popularity of the franchise. Kelvin Star Trek, and Star Trek Discovery was breathing new life and popularity into the franchise again.
Got no interest in STD whatsoever, when I stumble upon it my accident, reinforces why....
I sure hope this new Picard series is better than that lukewarm squirty horse turd Discovery
Federation equals United States?- ok just to let you know the US is a small part of the United Nations and NATO etc. But then again you probably dont even have a passport?
Amen, brother.
Good stuff
The original Star Trek showed Klingon females as officers. If anything, the movies and TNG rolled back their status.
Did you say “United States Starship Enterprise“?? 🤦♂️
Uhhmmm🤨 I mean yeah, ya know, the "USS Enterprise"...... 🤔
I must be losing my hearing. I almost thought he mentioned Duras back in the TOS show and movie days
Didn't Kruge take hostages to extort Genesis from Kirk? Also, Kruge wasn't simply out for glory, but for the defense of his people. He is a very complex character, even going as far to have his own wife commit a necessary sacrifice to keep Genesis' info from falling into the hands of rival powers. But then again, how is the blackmail of L'Rells' for power?
Isn't Klingon honor conflicting between Klingons? Especially when honor would be divided among the classes? I.e. it's subjective?
It's simple, STD is not canon and nothing portrayed on it ever happened. maybe it's a piece of historical fiction that Wesley Crusher read while growing up, or that Jake Cisco wrote. It comes no closer to canon than that.
"The body is now a lifeless shell,
Dispose of it as you see fit".
Heart of Glory, . TNG.
Referring to a dead Klingon.
Oooh, my favorite Discovery Klingon ship is the nutty "Cleave ship". ( its space dock is a giant knife sharpener.)
@@johnbockelie3899 Evidently Rule number one for STD is, "Put no thought in to anything, nothing shall make sense."
"United States Starship Enterprise"
United Star Ship Enterprise.