Learning Dual Angle Layouts | Laying out a Black Widow 2.0
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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This is perfect. Been looking for this type of video for the widow 3.0
I was just searching for this topic.
makes things so much more clear ....
I would like to see a Video with the same ball, with different angles or different Pin to Pap distance. 😊
Truly excellent video!
The best explanation I have found to date online about how to do dual angle layouts and what the angles mean.
Perhaps you could do a video on how to do Full Roller layouts using this method.
Have you ever done a video where you breakdown the ranges of the numbers you're using? Like the first 65* you said "I want it to be a little cleaner" but honestly that word doesn't mean much.
Cheers JR!
When he says cleaner he means he wants it to get down the lane a little more before it starts reading, as opposed to starting to read the lane early
The dual angle system is essentially a method of correlating bowler metrics with a benchmark asymmetric ball layout. Other layouts (control, long and strong, etc,...) are relative to the benchmark layout. In a nutshell: angle sum / angle ratio will give you the two angles, and pin-PAP will be based mainly upon the axis rotation.
Axis TILT* Low Tilt = Shorter pin to paps, high tilt = longer pin to paps.
I have no idea what you are talking about lol.
@@KennyGrinols axis tilt is the basis for the angle ratio calculation. This, along with the angle sum essentially compensates for the bowler's axis tilt. Axis rotation determines the forward rolling bias needed in the layout, which is primarily defined by the pin-PAP distance. Since most high-tilt bowlers tend to have high rotation as well, the longer pin-PAP is usually prescribed in the layout calculations for high-tilt bowlers.
@@byronfranek2706 axis tilt is used primary to decide pin to pap distance. Not axis rotation.
I still have my original black widow and toxic hammer. We need a quantum helix back too
Hi JR - When you draw your line from your VAL to mark the center of your grip where is the spine of the Prosect lined up? Thanks!
I might be wrong, but it looks like the spine of the pri sect is lined up on the VAL line itself, and then he draws what would be the centerline to his center or grip
You need to write a book. This is too advanced lol! 🤔
Hi JR...may I request for a strong skid-snap layout for heavy oil pattern please? Struggling with my scores and average is 170. My speed is 12.5 to 13 (reduced it due to lumbar pain problem). Rev around 200-225. PAP is 5 and 7/8Up.
Will 75-4-25 or 65-4-25 work?
Looks like you'll be spending a lot more time in Toledo...
All of his time
Hey JR , I've watched a lot of your videos and I know how to do VLS but I'm trying to understand dual angle a little better, what's the difference in say a 80x5x25 compared to a 55x5x50? They both come out to 105 to get the total ball strength
So when you draw the line over to get your center of grip, is there a certain distance off of that line to show where the pin will be at...I noticed you said the pin will be right here and you went up about 2.5 inches on the scale off the center grip line...is that what you always do, go up 2.5 inches? Or what? Thats the only part that is confusing for me...I got the rest down
Trying to figure out how my 2.0 was drilled. Center of the finger holes is about 2 3/8" left of the dot center. Thumb about 3" left of the centerline and the top of the fingerholes is fractions of an inch below the dot. For the most part, I have to use a Bionic brace with a nearly full cup to get it to hook. I also have to slow it down to about 14 MPH or it becomes a straight missile. Could it have been drilled different to get more hook out of it?
So I'm interested in buying this ball, but have tried learning how drill the holes. This video helped alot but when I take the ball to a professional to drill it. What do I need to tell them?
JR’ I watch all your videos and I’m already have my 2.0 drilled out, but I just got the hammer black widow legend, thinking of doing that layout as you did to the 2.0, what do you think
if you want to be more accurate, draw a thinner line. Keep your pencil super sharp.
the width of your yellow pencil is already 1/16th thick
I scribe cuts. Pencil is only for layout
May be a dumb question, but the 3-3/8" rule for flare, is that based on experience, or is that typical for all bowlers?
It has nothing to do with the bowler. It's how the core is oriented in relation to the spin axis (PAP). It can vary a little depending on core design but it's usually pretty darn close to 3 3/8ths. I suspect it might also be a little different for certain extremely unusual PAP players like true spinners or full rollers but I haven't studied those much so maybe it's the same.
Always good to tell the pso how to do their job. Must not trust your professional. No way I walk in to JR ProShop and tell them how to do their job. They know my stuff and I trust them
Telling them what layout you want, isn't telling them how to do their job. You're allowed to have input, or even just experiment with something. A typical PSO would never likely drill a short pin ball for a customer without request, but plenty of people are raving about the success of that layout.
@@KennyGrinols if you have a quality pro then they will look at what balls you have and layouts and work with the bowler. If a short pin is what is needed to fill a spot in your bag.
@@ryanreid8608 if that is what you desire, than be my guest. You might be surprised to know, that not everyone buys balls specifically to fill spots. Sometimes you just want to experiment, have fun, or try something new. As stated, requesting a layout is not telling your PSO how to do their job.
My PSO never would have recommended a RICO, Short Pin, Double Thumb, or MOtion hole, but I wanted to try them, so that's what they gave me.
If you have no desire to learn about how/why your equipment works, or understand layouts, then there's nothing wrong with that, and you can rely on your PSO for life, they are there to assist you. Many people want to know those things, so they can tinker with their arsenal or understand why certain things do or don't work for them to increase their bowling knowledge.
Being educated to know what you want isn’t telling the shop how to do their job. It’s being a customer telling the business what product they want to purchase or how they want their service performed.
This is going to be a stupid question but wouldn't you're PAP change depending on how your ball is drilled or does it matter? I just got a BW 2.0 and it doesn't even move unless I go all the way to the 5 - 10 board.
No except that pitches can somewhat change your PAP.
JR love your videos and ball reviews. Question: I've got 4 pieces, each with a different layout but based on the same PAP. I recently had my PAP checked and found that it changed significantly. If I know the dual angle layout of these pieces, is there a mathematical way to convert them to my new PAP. Is this even worth doing? I have two new pieces (one from BowlerX) currently in transit.
Wouldn't you just plug, then layout with known current dual angle layout and NEW PAP, and then redrill?
@@Alldayertexas I have a couple rolling well, it would be nice to know what the layout is.
if your pap has changed then the layouts you have on those balls has changed due to the pap moving, now you can get with your pro shop and have them use your old pap to find out what those layouts were with the old pap, or now that they know you have a new pap using the measurements for it they can mark where your pap is on the ball and use the pro sect to figure out your layout currently on those balls that way with the new balls you can use the new pap with the layouts for that pap since you like the ball motion you get, otherwise with the old balls use the old layouts with the new pap and redrill the balls but you may not like the motion then though
Is it true that all your doing is trying to get the core to roll in the same direction for everyone by using each individual persons pap??
Depends on the layout. Longer pin to paps will 'tend' to roll more forward, which puts the core end over end. Shorter pin to paps promote more side roll. If you want to experiment, put a piece of tape directly on top of the Pin of your current bowling ball and video (or watch) what the tape does. You can see if the tape is rolling end over end or spinning on its side, to give you an idea of the core orientation down the lane and at the pins.
Got a new pro spect to start trying working on angle layouts the problem I have is getting the wax pencil to mark ball I see how yours come out so bright and fine and I pretty much get nothing what am I doing wrong?
Use the sharpened end
Get a different grease pencil
My brain hurts...