Thanks Chris, very useful. Very much in similar liveaboard/Startlink situation to yourselves and you've confirmed our understanding. Actually unsubscribed from all Starlink forums, tired of repetitive/nauseating noddy questions and replies by clueless experts so having you filter that nonsense for us has been immensely useful!
Ah this is great to hear and really appreciate the feedback!! You’re right about the forums, it can be very confrontational and a lot of conflicting opinions, which are just that, opinions! There are only a few nuggets of information coming directly from Starlink, so basing this video around them and covering a few points that us sailors really need to know!
This was always in Starlink TOS. Nothing has changed in regards to the roaming version . You can use it close to shore while under about 8 knots. BUT: Officially you cannot use the roaming version on a boat at all. You never could! The maritime version uses satellite to satellite connections via laser which only 1.5 Starlink satellites provide. There are obviously no ground stations (POPs) on the ocean so sat to sat is necessary. This is of course more expensive thus the higher cost for maritime. Bottom line. You will still be fine with Starlink roam in marinas and on anchor close to shore. At this price point (EUR 300 for dish and EUR 100 per month) it is still a good deal.
Yeah that’s it in a nutshell. But good to see there is an option now that is at least more affordable for maritime. If we had the HP dish and it was definitely possible to change to and from the packages (still not 100% on that) then we’d use roam and then just buy into the maritime plan for a month to cross an ocean. But for now it’s doing what we need it to, so long may that last!
This is what I'm trying to find out not sure you have answered it here but maybe could clarify for me. Will the standard dish work on a boat near the shore? Specifically I would be buying starlink in the UK on a global plan but intend to use it first offshore Guyana(great they have just recently allowed starlink use). I travel around the world for work, to sometimes remote places so have been looking into starlink. Places like gulf of klutch(india), Kazakhstan, Nigeria.
Brilliant thank you. I’ve been sailing the South Asia China seas for a couple of years. Weather data can be difficult to get. Starlink seemed the perfect option. However the original maritime option was well out of budget to be honest the new package is still steep but it’s at least viable. Top job on bringing the information together well done. Thank you and keep at it it’s a great life. Regards Mark (SV Coomera)
Thanks so much Mark!! It’s a tough but great life, we’re enjoying it still. Great to hear where you’ve been sailing, that’s somewhere we’d love to go too!
Useful info thanks, we are currently looking at options for our 36 ft sail boat. Question how is the power draw? Mains or have you converted to 12v? I am hoping the mini will eventually be able to be used.
I have watched lots of sailing channels over the years plenty still upload their videos every week from remote locations eg sailing into freedom etc I know its handy having the Internet but sailing is also the freedom to not have to worry about where to get Internet love your videos
Thank you so much! 🙌🏼🥰 Makes us happy that you enjoy our videos. We agree with you and wish we had a little more freedom, but as we both work full time remotely we have to rely on decent internet 😅⛵️
Starlink uses a very focused phased array antenna system. Dishy 1&2, can only eletrically steer the signal a couple of degree, the HP dishes are way better at it. The HP dishy and flat dishy also have a better field of view than dish1&2. the low end dish is not meant to be used in motion, and on a boat the dish is always moving. I think starlink is moving in the right direction for the services they are providing. great video.
Might I suggest looking into cell phone boosters! I know some people who sail Lake Michigan, and they tell me some tall tails on the range they get. They have their antenna up on a spreader. I get that it won't work super far on the ocean. I have one I use in my car, and I have full signal everywhere. Maybe it could help, not sure! Smooth Sailing, you two!
Yeah that was our first thought, especially as it means we would need to upgrade to the HP dish😬 But overall it’s good news that there is an option, just got to wait until the price drops!🤞🏼
We are US based, planning to leave for Bahamas this autumn. Were considering Starlink as supplement to SSB for weather and other communication needs, however, the instability of terms and hardware are so off-putting as to make us reconsider. $2500.00US is a significant investment with no assurances of the hardware being compatible in even the short term future. In addition since the service is month to month, there is no assurance the service, as currently provided,will even be available next month. We will put this purchase on the back burner until Starlink matures and shows stability. Thank you for reviewing this product. We enjoy your regular content a great deal, and look forward to one day cruising in the UK. Cheers, Mike.
I bought my Starlink here in Mexico the plan is 1350 pesos per month comes to about $72 USD and the additional plan is 40 pesos per moth per GB which is $2.00 USD GB for me its cheap and I will just keep the plan and test it again when I leave and go to the Atlantic
That’s a great price for the plan! Yes the new option to top up GB is great where available, as it does seem Starlink will eventually crack down on all offshore use without the mobility/marine data. But it is still uncertain if we can use the standard dish ‘in-motion’ at say 5kts boat speed, without getting shut down for breach of T&Cs 🤔 We can’t afford the HP dish, so hoping it won’t come to that!
Awesome. This will kill iridium go. I just about bought the go for a rediculouse amount for not much connectivity. Instead i bought a sat phone that was affordable. Now starlink is affordable with all that connectivity
Well done for giving a very honest and comprehensive explanation of the Starlink system and the various options they offer. Are you planning to continue working whilst offshore is that the reason why you are needing the internet access?
Hi! Thanks so much for watching and the feedback☺️ Yes we currently work remotely so the internet is, unfortunately, a pretty big deal for us😬 We don’t plan to work whilst on the move, so really the roam version is going to suit us fine. But we just need to weigh up the benefits of having a sat phone vs getting the high performance Starlink dish with maritime plan, mainly just for our offshore passages.
I just watched the latest Cruising Meraki video and they used Starlink (not the maritime version) all the way across the Pacific from Mexico to the Marquesas islands. Which surprised them.
Oh no way!! Do you know if that was filmed after Wednesday’s announcement/changes last week?🤔 It’s going to be interesting to see if Starlink starts enforcing the ‘not in motion’ rules for the standard dishes, now that they offer the maritime package…
@@SailingIndiana They sailed across the Pacific about a month ago. I think Delos is using Starlink as well during their current voyage across the Pacific.
Hi, just found your channel and have enjoyed watching a couple of episodes. Good update on Starlink, I can get why people enjoy the 'safety blanket' of additional coverage, but part of our enjoyment of sailing is getting away from it all. Realistically, if you have got a VG Mobile and an EE Mobile, you'd have more than enough coverage within ~20 miles of the coast for anything you need. I have to declare that I am not a fan of Elon Musk, I appreciate the tech and I accept that it could be helpful, but for the vast majority of people it is overkill. Keep up the great videos and fair winds.
Hi and thanks so much for watching!! You’re definitely not wrong, Europe has great phone signal/5G etc so it’s way cheaper to get an unlimited data sim and hotspot while here. We’re sticking close to shore too so signal wouldn’t be an issue 80% of the time. The Starlink for us means we can sit in secluded anchorages where phone signal is bad or just have less hassle/worry re data and signal in general. We both work remotely so NEED to be online 9-5😑 Otherwise it just wouldn’t make sense financially. We’re hoping it comes into its own if and when we head across the pond!
i am a lobster fisherman and having a new boat built … the old one had starlink and worked .. till they found out … and now a new one seems like it will be 450 $can a month
I don't think sailing at 5-6kts is going to count as "being in motion", lol. We'll see what the cutoff speed will be but I think sailboats will be fine.
Very informative. We plan to purchase a system soon to use at our remote cabin in the summer and our sailboat in the winter. Sounds like we will still be good with the low cost equipment and the roam subscription. Bummer they are enforcing the no movement/offshore clauses but I'm assuming we will be ok in the Bahamas and Caribbean next to the islands. Very much appreciate the timely update. On the flip side, so many boats around us have it that the marinas WIFI is working great for us.
Cheers & safe travels!! Thanks for the video. Please stop describing what you are going to talk about & talk about it. Jibba Jabba says Mr. T. Thanks though, video does have lots of useful info & updates sprinkled in.
Like all relatively new services, lots of confusion and misleading information. You have put a very comprehensive video together that should help a lot of users.
That’s how we felt! A lot of information and not always clear, so we wanted to try and summarise it as best we could. Thank you for this comment it’s definitely put a smile on Chris’s face after all his research. We hope we can help a few sailors! ☺️
Just got an email from Starlink that they have witnessed my Starlink used at sea. We have only used it at anchor 20nm offshore, always turned it off while in option. So there you have it, crackdown at anchor 😣
Oh no way!! Did the email come through soon after you used it at sea, or weeks/months after? Also, assume the place you anchored was outside of the ‘land’ area on the hexagon map, if it was 20nm offshore?? Does that mean they’ve shut it down or just voids the warranty but can still be used? Thanks for the info!!
So if you're self employed, and working during your travels...presumably Starlink could be tax deductable/part deductable as your business/comms costs?
We’ve heard nothing for a while now about any changes or restrictions, which is good. It seems like coastal use while underway is fine (we only go at max 7kts SOG and only a few miles out), we haven’t had a warning email yet. So think the roam package with standard dish is still the best option for coastal sailors. We’ve been fine all along the Spanish and Portuguese coast so far, but haven’t been offshore with it yet so can’t comment.
If you cross over to the Caribbean for a longer period it is maybe cheaper to sell your European dish and buy a new £ 300 dish + £ 85 per month Caribbean subscription. Instead of the £ 200 per month maritime global subscription.
It’s not a good deal for the maritime package because you are only likely to be offshore for perhaps 20 days on the ARC or similar and the rest of the time you are going to be in close to land in coastal waters. I don’t see this plan lasting at those prices.
Yea that’s the issue… If the maritime plan worked on the standard dish then it would be great, especially if we could opt in and out of the Martine-roam plans. But faced with the £2500 HP dish price, it’s out of our reach for now.
The Global Roam is Nice. Seems Like as Long as You're in a Port, You Qualify for It. You Don't Really Need Active Internet at Sea....Do You? Just Pull Into an Island Somewhere, and Upload Your You-Tube Videos. :) Global Roam is Only $200? That Seems Legit. Just I Would Like to Have an Emergency Satellite Just in Case. Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...🤩
What is Starlink? I haven't a clue. What does it do? I am assuming it's a form of gps or router of some sort. You mention costs ,plans, data, packages, roam. As an old man and ex navigating officer in the MN in the 1970's when there were no satellites. Sorry I am abit thick
It’s internet access from satellites, so it replaces cellular data. It uses satellites instead of cell towers to transmit signals, so it can work anywhere on the planet.
Do you know if there is any support in existence at starlink? Tried to reach them since a couple of months ago via x and email. What are your experiences with customer support there?
Thanks for this info. Really helps on deciding if I want to purchase starlink. The hexagon shape marker area starlink can be used, how can I see this ?
This is outdated information. The standard articulated dish -- the one most people have -- will work offshore with the standard roam plan and "mobile-priority" data added by the GB. at a cost of $2 per GB (in the US). No need to buy a new dish or change your plan assuming the the US prices and policies are similar in the UK.
Way have starlink when you can have normal sim card on a extended router opp to 5nm coast cover, over the atlantic yes but not for that mony. Mvh Mera / Erik One anker Portimao Portugal
I can't email starlink without an account. Perhaps you can ask this question? If you and your yacht are on one continent and you order starlink maritime to your home country (because starlink says you can't ship to a different continent other than your account registered continent.) Can you then have your mail forwarding service then ship the starlink to you on your yacht and then activate it on another continent? After all it is global service. They do state on their site you cannot activate regular starlink on a different continent than you shipped to but no mention of global maritime version. The problem is, I want maritime on my yacht but I live on my yacht and I am not about to fly back to my country, sit in a hotel, wait on it then activate it and ship it overseas to my yacht. Just curious if someone could ask that would be great. Thanks.
Thanks Chris, very useful.
Very much in similar liveaboard/Startlink situation to yourselves and you've confirmed our understanding.
Actually unsubscribed from all Starlink forums, tired of repetitive/nauseating noddy questions and replies by clueless experts so having you filter that nonsense for us has been immensely useful!
Ah this is great to hear and really appreciate the feedback!!
You’re right about the forums, it can be very confrontational and a lot of conflicting opinions, which are just that, opinions! There are only a few nuggets of information coming directly from Starlink, so basing this video around them and covering a few points that us sailors really need to know!
This was always in Starlink TOS. Nothing has changed in regards to the roaming version . You can use it close to shore while under about 8 knots. BUT: Officially you cannot use the roaming version on a boat at all. You never could! The maritime version uses satellite to satellite connections via laser which only 1.5 Starlink satellites provide. There are obviously no ground stations (POPs) on the ocean so sat to sat is necessary. This is of course more expensive thus the higher cost for maritime. Bottom line. You will still be fine with Starlink roam in marinas and on anchor close to shore. At this price point (EUR 300 for dish and EUR 100 per month) it is still a good deal.
Yeah that’s it in a nutshell. But good to see there is an option now that is at least more affordable for maritime. If we had the HP dish and it was definitely possible to change to and from the packages (still not 100% on that) then we’d use roam and then just buy into the maritime plan for a month to cross an ocean. But for now it’s doing what we need it to, so long may that last!
This is what I'm trying to find out not sure you have answered it here but maybe could clarify for me. Will the standard dish work on a boat near the shore? Specifically I would be buying starlink in the UK on a global plan but intend to use it first offshore Guyana(great they have just recently allowed starlink use). I travel around the world for work, to sometimes remote places so have been looking into starlink. Places like gulf of klutch(india), Kazakhstan, Nigeria.
Brilliant thank you.
I’ve been sailing the South Asia China seas for a couple of years.
Weather data can be difficult to get.
Starlink seemed the perfect option.
However the original maritime option was well out of budget to be honest the new package is still steep but it’s at least viable.
Top job on bringing the information together well done.
Thank you and keep at it it’s a great life.
Regards
Mark
(SV Coomera)
Thanks so much Mark!! It’s a tough but great life, we’re enjoying it still.
Great to hear where you’ve been sailing, that’s somewhere we’d love to go too!
Useful info thanks, we are currently looking at options for our 36 ft sail boat. Question how is the power draw? Mains or have you converted to 12v? I am hoping the mini will eventually be able to be used.
I have watched lots of sailing channels over the years plenty still upload their videos every week from remote locations eg sailing into freedom etc I know its handy having the Internet but sailing is also the freedom to not have to worry about where to get Internet love your videos
Thank you so much! 🙌🏼🥰 Makes us happy that you enjoy our videos. We agree with you and wish we had a little more freedom, but as we both work full time remotely we have to rely on decent internet 😅⛵️
You dont live on a boat obviously in remote locations
Starlink uses a very focused phased array antenna system. Dishy 1&2, can only eletrically steer the signal a couple of degree, the HP dishes are way better at it. The HP dishy and flat dishy also have a better field of view than dish1&2. the low end dish is not meant to be used in motion, and on a boat the dish is always moving. I think starlink is moving in the right direction for the services they are providing. great video.
The HP dishes are even more power hungry than the 1&2. Never mind the prices now, they are starting to sky rocket.
Awesome update Chris, please keep us up to date if there are any changes
Thanks so much for watching! Keeping an eye out for changes, plenty of discussions on the forums, but as usual not many facts yet…
Might I suggest looking into cell phone boosters! I know some people who sail Lake Michigan, and they tell me some tall tails on the range they get. They have their antenna up on a spreader. I get that it won't work super far on the ocean. I have one I use in my car, and I have full signal everywhere. Maybe it could help, not sure! Smooth Sailing, you two!
Thank you for posting this.
Thanks very much for watching!
Costs just got steeper!
But, you are right, for costal cruising and island hopping it's still worth the money...
Yeah that was our first thought, especially as it means we would need to upgrade to the HP dish😬 But overall it’s good news that there is an option, just got to wait until the price drops!🤞🏼
Thanks for the information
Thanks so much for watching🙌🏼
We are US based, planning to leave for Bahamas this autumn. Were considering Starlink as supplement to SSB for weather and other communication needs, however, the instability of terms and hardware are so off-putting as to make us reconsider. $2500.00US is a significant investment with no assurances of the hardware being compatible in even the short term future. In addition since the service is month to month, there is no assurance the service, as currently provided,will even be available next month. We will put this purchase on the back burner until Starlink matures and shows stability.
Thank you for reviewing this product. We enjoy your regular content a great deal, and look forward to one day cruising in the UK.
Cheers,
Mike.
I bought my Starlink here in Mexico the plan is 1350 pesos per month comes to about $72 USD and the additional plan is 40 pesos per moth per GB which is $2.00 USD GB for me its cheap and I will just keep the plan and test it again when I leave and go to the Atlantic
That’s a great price for the plan! Yes the new option to top up GB is great where available, as it does seem Starlink will eventually crack down on all offshore use without the mobility/marine data. But it is still uncertain if we can use the standard dish ‘in-motion’ at say 5kts boat speed, without getting shut down for breach of T&Cs 🤔
We can’t afford the HP dish, so hoping it won’t come to that!
Awesome. This will kill iridium go. I just about bought the go for a rediculouse amount for not much connectivity. Instead i bought a sat phone that was affordable. Now starlink is affordable with all that connectivity
Well done for giving a very honest and comprehensive explanation of the Starlink system and the various options they offer. Are you planning to continue working whilst offshore is that the reason why you are needing the internet access?
Hi! Thanks so much for watching and the feedback☺️ Yes we currently work remotely so the internet is, unfortunately, a pretty big deal for us😬 We don’t plan to work whilst on the move, so really the roam version is going to suit us fine. But we just need to weigh up the benefits of having a sat phone vs getting the high performance Starlink dish with maritime plan, mainly just for our offshore passages.
I just watched the latest Cruising Meraki video and they used Starlink (not the maritime version) all the way across the Pacific from Mexico to the Marquesas islands. Which surprised them.
Oh no way!! Do you know if that was filmed after Wednesday’s announcement/changes last week?🤔 It’s going to be interesting to see if Starlink starts enforcing the ‘not in motion’ rules for the standard dishes, now that they offer the maritime package…
@@SailingIndiana They sailed across the Pacific about a month ago. I think Delos is using Starlink as well during their current voyage across the Pacific.
Hi, just found your channel and have enjoyed watching a couple of episodes. Good update on Starlink, I can get why people enjoy the 'safety blanket' of additional coverage, but part of our enjoyment of sailing is getting away from it all. Realistically, if you have got a VG Mobile and an EE Mobile, you'd have more than enough coverage within ~20 miles of the coast for anything you need. I have to declare that I am not a fan of Elon Musk, I appreciate the tech and I accept that it could be helpful, but for the vast majority of people it is overkill. Keep up the great videos and fair winds.
Hi and thanks so much for watching!!
You’re definitely not wrong, Europe has great phone signal/5G etc so it’s way cheaper to get an unlimited data sim and hotspot while here. We’re sticking close to shore too so signal wouldn’t be an issue 80% of the time. The Starlink for us means we can sit in secluded anchorages where phone signal is bad or just have less hassle/worry re data and signal in general. We both work remotely so NEED to be online 9-5😑 Otherwise it just wouldn’t make sense financially.
We’re hoping it comes into its own if and when we head across the pond!
i am a lobster fisherman and having a new boat built … the old one had starlink and worked .. till they found out … and now a new one seems like it will be 450 $can a month
I don't think sailing at 5-6kts is going to count as "being in motion", lol. We'll see what the cutoff speed will be but I think sailboats will be fine.
Very informative. We plan to purchase a system soon to use at our remote cabin in the summer and our sailboat in the winter. Sounds like we will still be good with the low cost equipment and the roam subscription. Bummer they are enforcing the no movement/offshore clauses but I'm assuming we will be ok in the Bahamas and Caribbean next to the islands. Very much appreciate the timely update. On the flip side, so many boats around us have it that the marinas WIFI is working great for us.
Good info. As long as the pirates don't figure out where the dead zones are. ☠️
Cheers & safe travels!! Thanks for the video. Please stop describing what you are going to talk about & talk about it. Jibba Jabba says Mr. T. Thanks though, video does have lots of useful info & updates sprinkled in.
Like all relatively new services, lots of confusion and misleading information. You have put a very comprehensive video together that should help a lot of users.
That’s how we felt! A lot of information and not always clear, so we wanted to try and summarise it as best we could. Thank you for this comment it’s definitely put a smile on Chris’s face after all his research. We hope we can help a few sailors! ☺️
Just got an email from Starlink that they have witnessed my Starlink used at sea. We have only used it at anchor 20nm offshore, always turned it off while in option. So there you have it, crackdown at anchor 😣
Oh no way!! Did the email come through soon after you used it at sea, or weeks/months after? Also, assume the place you anchored was outside of the ‘land’ area on the hexagon map, if it was 20nm offshore??
Does that mean they’ve shut it down or just voids the warranty but can still be used?
Thanks for the info!!
Same here. RV panel on my powercat used 2 weeks in marinas (and while crossing) in the Bahamas.. required to switch to $250 50GB plan
So if you're self employed, and working during your travels...presumably Starlink could be tax deductable/part deductable as your business/comms costs?
Hmm, that’s a very good point🤔 Can’t see why not, it would be a legitimate business cost!
Any more updates from Starlink on limiting the original RV/Roam plan within the last few months? Thanks for the info! Cheers
We’ve heard nothing for a while now about any changes or restrictions, which is good. It seems like coastal use while underway is fine (we only go at max 7kts SOG and only a few miles out), we haven’t had a warning email yet. So think the roam package with standard dish is still the best option for coastal sailors. We’ve been fine all along the Spanish and Portuguese coast so far, but haven’t been offshore with it yet so can’t comment.
@@SailingIndiana that’s great news! Thanks again for the update
If you cross over to the Caribbean for a longer period it is maybe cheaper to sell your European dish and buy a new £ 300 dish + £ 85 per month Caribbean subscription. Instead of the £ 200 per month maritime global subscription.
That’s a really good point actually! Now that they have coverage/permission in the Caribbean, can’t see why that wouldn’t work🤔 Thanks!!
Just transfer the dish to a new account, No need to sell.
@@tom_steiner Oh good point, an even better solution!! Thanks so much
Someone has just told me starlink is a satellite constellation system that aims to deliver global internet coverage. Understand now.
It’s not a good deal for the maritime package because you are only likely to be offshore for perhaps 20 days on the ARC or similar and the rest of the time you are going to be in close to land in coastal waters. I don’t see this plan lasting at those prices.
Yea that’s the issue… If the maritime plan worked on the standard dish then it would be great, especially if we could opt in and out of the Martine-roam plans. But faced with the £2500 HP dish price, it’s out of our reach for now.
The Global Roam is Nice. Seems Like as Long as You're in a Port, You Qualify for It. You Don't Really Need Active Internet at Sea....Do You? Just Pull Into an Island Somewhere, and Upload Your You-Tube Videos. :) Global Roam is Only $200? That Seems Legit. Just I Would Like to Have an Emergency Satellite Just in Case. Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...🤩
What is Starlink? I haven't a clue. What does it do? I am assuming it's a form of gps or router of some sort. You mention costs ,plans, data, packages, roam. As an old man and ex navigating officer in the MN in the 1970's when there were no satellites. Sorry I am abit thick
It’s internet access from satellites, so it replaces cellular data. It uses satellites instead of cell towers to transmit signals, so it can work anywhere on the planet.
Do you know if there is any support in existence at starlink? Tried to reach them since a couple of months ago via x and email. What are your experiences with customer support there?
Thanks for this info. Really helps on deciding if I want to purchase starlink. The hexagon shape marker area starlink can be used, how can I see this ?
Thanks very much for watching! You can find the Starlink map on their website, just zoom in and you’ll see the land underneath the blue hexagons.
@@SailingIndiana great thank you
Just subscribe. Working international Container vessel. And will buy Maritime Plan lets go❤
Thank you! 🙏🏼 yeah looks like we will have to go with that eventually!
This is outdated information. The standard articulated dish -- the one most people have -- will work offshore with the standard roam plan and "mobile-priority" data added by the GB. at a cost of $2 per GB (in the US). No need to buy a new dish or change your plan assuming the the US prices and policies are similar in the UK.
Way have starlink when you can have normal sim card on a extended router opp to 5nm coast cover, over the atlantic yes but not for that mony.
Mvh Mera / Erik
One anker Portimao Portugal
great video and explanation guys thank you 😃
I can't email starlink without an account. Perhaps you can ask this question? If you and your yacht are on one continent and you order starlink maritime to your home country (because starlink says you can't ship to a different continent other than your account registered continent.) Can you then have your mail forwarding service then ship the starlink to you on your yacht and then activate it on another continent? After all it is global service. They do state on their site you cannot activate regular starlink on a different continent than you shipped to but no mention of global maritime version. The problem is, I want maritime on my yacht but I live on my yacht and I am not about to fly back to my country, sit in a hotel, wait on it then activate it and ship it overseas to my yacht. Just curious if someone could ask that would be great. Thanks.
Take up reading , One doesn't do sailing (Cruising) to know what the kardashians are wearing
Haha. Yes, quite!
Kardasians haha. We use it for Up to date weather info like every other cruising boatie.
Considering the complete monopoly they have the pricing is quite fair