Indo-European Death and the Goddess of the Grave
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- How did our Indo-European ancestors think of death? Where did they go? How did they get there? Who ruled this world? But most importantly who decided when they would die? Here I present the mythology around death and the Indo-European Goddess that was a representation of it, Kolyo the Coverer.
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► References
Güntert, H. Kalypso - Studies of the history of meaning in the field of Indo-European languages. 1919
Lincoln, B. Death, War, and Sacrifice. The University of Chicago Press. 1991
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
1:03 Who were the Indo-Europeans?
2:54 Indo-European Cosmology
8:31 How the Indo-Europeans viewed Death
11:27 The King of the Otherworld
15:17 What was the Otherworld?
21:57 The Goddess of Death
25:25 The Bonds of Death
33:33 The Journey to Death
Are there any other old videos of mine you would like me to remake?
You're not leaving us are you?
Please give russian subtitles to this video
How about a video about tea, your tea making practices etc? Tea is a gift from the gods.
@@woodypigeon - I think tea is too recent, but beverages seen as sacred or of the gods would be interesting. The expression "nectar of the gods," comes to mind.
Only if you noticed that any vids need updates and are far behind on what you've pieced together currently, personally I wouldn't be familiar enough with all the material to be the judge of that, I just love all your work.
"We are all immortal. But we must die first." (Eliade)
As always, fascinating video!
Jon, it is my great pleasure to be married to a Filipina whose name is Helly. I knew that Hel was the "coverer or hider", and explained to her that her name is usually found most often in Scandinavia. As is often the case with names, there is a story behind her name. Her mother gave birth to her at age 18 in Baungon, Bukidnon Province, Mindanao. An American midwife named Helly delivered her. There is also a twist to the tale of her name, which lines up with the topic of this video. The midwife was killed when hit by a vehicle later the same day my wife Helly was born, and as a result her mother named her in memory of the one who brought her into this world. My wife will be 59 this November, is a polyglot, and a Higaonon baylan. In her tribe, the baylan is the one who is in communication with the spirits, can perform rituals, knows herblore, performs hilot massage, and in the past was also a midwife. I am honoured to be married to her.
Well, I will also be 59 come November, so early HBD to your wife. May she enjoy many more.
I don't know your wife, but I must say that she is awesome, and it's cool that such an interesting and potentially historically loaded name as she has comes with an equally interesting story. Many happy years to you both!
@@semaj_5022 Madakol hu salamat! Thanks very much!
I find it so amazing the strange coincidence that this very old religion believed that we are part of the cosmos, and now modern science actually proved that we are indeed made out of the cosmos
Sometime you may want to look at the Cadence Calls of the American military. When a great number of Irish immigrants came into the American military the cadence calls were born. The ones that apply to this subject are the ones about The Old Lady. In these marching cadences she is an old lady dressed in battle gear. In one way or another she imparts the soldiers she meets with courage. I believe she is derived from the Irish Morrigan. Morrigan the battle goddess who could also appear as an old woman. She appears in at least 5 different cadences although I only remember one now. "See the Old Lady walking down the street, Rucksack on her back, jump boots on her feet. Say Old Lady where you going to? I'm going to US Airborne School." There is also one called Queen of Battle that I think is linked though it never refers to The Old Lady by name.
I didn't know that. that's very interesting!
and here I thought it was the Navy boys who were into cross dressing 🤭
Wow......., I'm from a military family and my husband retired after 22 years in the Army. I've also studied Irish mythos in depth, in particularly The Morrigan, and I *never* put that together. Thank you! What a wonderful gift!
I remember this cadence. At the time I assumed it was just a story about an old lady shaming the young men into enlisting, but the Morrigan inspiration makes perfect sense. 👏👏👏👏👏
@@Jadeserphant There is folk song The Green Willow. You can find it recorded by Steeleye Span. It is British or Irish. It has been altered into a cadence also.
@@leekestner1554 I love Steeleye Span. I used to sing them and Fairport Convention to my babies when rocking them. My husband called them my "blood thirty Celt music." I told him that I didn't know any lullabies and the boys loved it and at least they came by it honest. Lol. I'll go listen to that one again. Thanks!
I envy cultures with such colorful harbingers of the grave. The closest thing we have to a psychopomp in indigenous Philippine beliefs--at least, in Tagalog mythology--is a crocodile with a stone casket on its back. It just shows up, and you either get in the box or in its mouth.
That actually sounds really cool, though, from an outside perspective, at least!
I like this.
Mouth or casket, you're coming with me! Xxx
I think I’ll take the box if you don’t mind thanks …
Makes me think of Egyptians and the weighting of the heart... You could go in to a mouth of a crocodile/hippo/lion hybrid in that scenario.
Crocodile be like “think out of the box” 🐊
Your mention of ritual sacrifices and their role in maintaining the cosmic balance reminded me of the power of ritual in our personal lives. It's fascinating to see how such ancient practices can be adapted for contemporary spiritual growth.. I know my viewers would benefit from this knowledge. Thanks! 🔥🌙
"When the first living thing was born, I was there waiting. When the last living thing dies, my work here will be done. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn off the lights, & lock the universe up behind me when I leave."
- Death of the Endless, "The Sandman."
ig Yama later became god. Because he is considered God of death and everyone fears from his noose. He rides on buffalo. He also has two watchdogs , Sharvara is identified with the constellation Canis Major, and Shyama with Canis Minor; together they guard the gates of the underworld, the domain of Yama. Also Sarama is considered mother of all dogs including those two 4 eyed dogs of Yama. She also helped Indra to fight against Asuras.
His full (or other) name is YamaRAJ which has the notion of him being a King.
While he may be a deity (a more precise term than god) and is generally called a Deva, he does not live in Devalok just like Shiva and Kali who are also associated with destruction and death.
*Raja/Raj/Rajya etc are also related to European words reich, royal, regal, ruler etc.
I wonder if the convention of naming children after ancestors is more than just a convenience of society. (I does help keep near relations from breeding). But maybe there is also the idea that when these people are asked about their names, the stories of where the names came from would keep the memory of that person alive, thereby prolonging immortality?
That is a interesting point.
The Romans believed that each family had a spirit called a genius where each man got their soul or animating spirit from and when you died that spirit returned to the genius. By naming their sons after famous ancestors they hoped that part of that person's spirit would come from the genius into the newborn and hopefully give them the attributes of the ancestor.
@@robo5013 Oh, the things we tell ourselves.
@@janerkenbrack3373 Don't understand what your remark is supposed to prove other than your ignorance. That is exactly how Roman religion worked. The pantheon of gods such as Jupiter, Mars and Juno were the national Latin gods but were not the personal gods or beliefs of the individual Romans. Each Roman family belonged to a clan, or gens which is the root word for genius. Each family, or clan, had its own genius from which they received the spirit, what we would call a soul, that animated each member of that family. The genius was believed to reside in the Pater Familias, the male head of the household, and was worshiped through him in the house. The father led the worship of the family genius by paying homage to his image, that is what all those busts were for. If a family wasn't wealthy enough to afford a marble bust they would have a portrait painted, if not able to afford that they used a mirror. When the Pater Familias died the next in line was supposed to draw in the father's last breath so that the genius did not escape. If the son was not home his mother would do so and in a religious ceremony transfer the genius to the son when he returned.
When Augustus had his statues placed throughout the empire and had the people worship it he instructed them to worship the genius of the Julian clan to strengthen the animating spirit of the imperial family, as he portrayed himself as the father of the Roman state. Maybe after you have studied ancient history for over forty years like I have you can comment on their religion instead of making assumptions based on ignorance.
I believe a similar practice was done by the norse, (except with a fyglja, animal-shaped guardian spirit, instead of a genius) any recently deceased relative would be "brought back" by naming the next child born in the family after them
There’s a very strange thing going on in Slavic folk tradition where Frau Holle and Cailleach seem to to relate Baba Yaga and her relatives. Including Marena. Whose name contains the Indo-European “-na” ending meaning “Master/ Mistress of” in conjunction with the word for death.
But the “Marena” figure can also be a sister of the Dawn. There are countless little hints of her counterpart being “Marya Morning Star” in Slavic charms and stories. But this would make her a daughter or granddaughter of the Holle-like hag figure in many folktales. So there’s a mother and daughter who are hard to distinguish from one another here. Just some observations on Slavic folk traditions.
What about Hel peninsula as a place of dead? Why not a word of it?
Marena - Marzanna is not only a goddess of death, she’s a goddess of war (cognate with Mars), mother of godly warrior twins praised by ancient Polish anthem - Bogurodzica (Mother of god).
About the motif of sacrificing Kings: Interestingly the pre-Viking Swedish Yngling King Domald sacrificed himself as his rule was plagued by famine and distress, hoping to end the time of scarcity. Earlier in the story it was told that he was descended of Odin who came from the eastern steppes. Odin is by Jon White hypothesized to be (partly) Yemo if I’m not mistaken. In any way, the motif of King sacrificing himself to do good to the land is clearly there.
In another example, the Gothic King Airmanareiks (whose people also stem from Scandinavia by the way) sacrificed himself as he was unable to effectively protect his peoples lands against the invasion of the Huns.
If I remember my mythology correctly, Odin (and his brothers) kill Ymir and builds the world from his body, incidentally taking on the role of Manu, the priest. But Odin is a very complicated figure, also being the king of the gods, and, therefore, also somewhat a Yemo figure.
@@Zumbs Think of his name. Most high, as high and third.....itll come to you
The name Kolyo made me think of Kore, which is theorized to have become Persephone, wife of Hades. That would be a great follow up to do just the goddess or the evolution of goddesses. Like Aphrodite from Ishtar. 😁
I was thinking similarly when he mentioned the Death personification referred to as "Ker" in Ancient Greek. My limited understanding is that "Kore" means "maiden," with no obvious connections to either "old and worn" or "to cover," but language can evolve in odd ways, so if there is some sort of etymological connection further back that would be incredibly interesting.
Kore was the Maiden aspect for which there is some reason to believe was a later development and that her role as queen of the underworld came first. Hades as a figure did not exist in Mycenaean Greece, yet Persephone (literally, "she who slays") did and appears to have formed a triad with her mother and Poseidon as not the god of the sea but as the cthonic lord earthquakes and altered states of consciousness. I _think_ Persephone is believed to be of Anatolian origin rather than Indo-European.
Interestingly in Japan, the deity of death is also female (Izanami who died giving birth to the god of fire and became goddess of death by cursing her husband for leaving her in the underworld)
If the Indo Europeans had no concept of a soul, than what is it that they envisioned as reaching the otherworld? It couldn’t have been their physical body if that was supposed to be returned to the elements.
Your section on fame being immortality makes me give second thought to all the people who chase fame today. But it also makes me wonder if that is what the cultures who have ancestor worship are all about. So long as the family continues and someone remembers your name, you have not truly died. Just pondering.
Fascinating video. Thank you.
This is the best channel to fall asleep to. The content is so interesting, so I actively try to stay up, but your voice is so soft and soothing. It's win-win.
Thank you, I think!
Haha, trust me, that's not a sleight. Anything I miss, I just finish up the next night. It may take some time, but I eventually get through them. It's like falling asleep to a good book. Keep up the great work!@@Crecganford
That's how I use these videos too! Whatever I fall asleep to and miss I listen to in the morning with my tea!
the reverence of the cow in Hinduism is surely linked to the creation myth of the Indo-Europeans, carried down thousands of years
It is, and I have talked about this many times.
Of all the depictions of afterlives in Pirates of the Caribbean, I had no idea Calypso being released of her earthly bonds was yet another displayed.
One thing about Manu and Yemo, after some thought I’m wondering if the cow is symbolic for the earth. In Germania it says tuisto was born of the earth and this symbolic association makes sense if it’s true. Cattle were associated with wealth and resources, so the two first people suckling on a cow/using the earth is an interesting take. Then from Yemo’s sacrifice the world is given vegetation and additional features.
The story might have been thought to repeat with some koryos moving to a new land/cow, taking its resources and founding new villages. The Romulus and Remus story being one of them.
Anyway it’s a weird thought by seems worth mentioning.
The cow’s purpose does vary in different cultures, but I feel the Germanic view is probably close to the oldest.
As a father and employee, i can understand the appeal of an afterlife that's just rest. Not looking for a paradise, just some peace and quiet. I feel things haven't changed in several thousand years 😂
Забыли упомянуть Мару (Марену). Мара является славянским божеством смерти и стужи, что отчасти связывает её и с похожими функциями Велеса, бога скота и сказителей, который в Балтской мифологии представлен ещё и божеством потустороннего, хтонического мира мёртвых.
Балтские и Славянские божества в этом особенно интересны, так как у них ещё нет таким огромных историй, как у Хель, Аида, Танатоса и других божеств смерти. Они сохраняют архаичность, чем и подкупают жителей Восточной Европы.
Same with Celtic and other Germanic cultures. What we have is either inferred or was actually written down later on. Because Indo-European started basically in the Slavic world Ive always wondered how close Slavic pagan beliefs are to the "original" Indo-european beliefs. But what interests me is the agricultural European gods and beliefs and how they got merged with Indo European.
Hell is a German word - old and modern German - and it means 'light' and 'illumniated'. Today, hell however is 'hölle' in German. A term which derived from 'Holle', aka Frau Holle. In Grimm's fairy tale she is the Holy Ruler of the other world, reigning over the seasons. For the old ones she was also the one who would rise from the otherworld along with her army of the dead and roam through the skies during the 12 days between the old year and the beginning of the New Year. The transition from 'Kel' to 'hel' is still visible in the German word 'Keller' meaning 'basement'.
Thanks, professor! I’m so happy to have found you.
I love this channel so much, thank you for your hard work sir!
Thank you so much.
@@Crecganfordplease do video about basque mithology
23:14 This is very similar to a Neolithic Venus figurine that is the typical voluptuous body in the front, but in the back her ribs are showing and she looks more like a skeleton. It’s from the Çatalhöyük
2005 Archive Report if you want to go digging for it.
The material substance itself is eternal, and we are made of that same substance. We are eternal. Beautiful
Setanta means "He who knows the way", the name of The Hound of Ulster, the meaning of my "Son of the Hound of Ulster", Weylyn means Son of the Wolf, Waylon meaning "land beside the road". They say dogs know their way home, will travail miles to get back.
Wayland definition: a smith , artificer , and king of the elves, where is the land of elves?
I want to thank you for creating your own edited Closed Captions! I'm so thrilled for this. 🤘
Yes, I always do but normally upload them to UA-cam, but I made a "mistake" of hard coding them in the video as well. I hope not too many people mind.
@@Crecganford I do hope we can return to not hard-coding them. I find myself reading along rather than thinking about the topics discussed. It is nice to have the option when in a noisy environment. I guess I could just listen and not watch, but I do enjoy the art that you use as visual aids.
@@Crecganford I absolutely appreciate your efforts to go so far. It has made my mates feel more accessible to your content, especially when they do not speak English well.
I appreciate your videos. Ive been on a history spree for years bow. I studied philosophy and religion as a young man. But we never got into the nordics, PIE or any if that. Much respect to people like you!
I always think that "fame" could be the opposite of "fate" in the PIE / Germanic / Norse culture. As in our Story is already written, but only we can make it Memorable, so reaching immortality.
Subs text Ferry Man out with the spelling Fairy Man, which I think is splendid!
It makes the transition of death a bit more jolly!
I checked all the other figures name except that one! Doh!
I miss these.
These videos are eye opening to my own inner/sub-conciousness... it speaks in signs I was barely able o understand... and now, I'm slowly coming to listen.
THANK YOU.
Hecate in Greek myths is associated with dogs , and she is the one who witnessed Hades stealing Persephone.I know I'm assuming, but I think this would mean she was near the entrance of Hades's land. I wonder if this some remnant of ancient Kolyo beliefs. Hecate is also associated with crossroads and liminality, which would fit with the idea of bring someone from life through the threshold to the Lord of the Death. Just musing. Excellent video and research as always.
Hecate was originally a solar dawn goddess. She did not become associated with the Moon until the late BCE period.
@@godskingssages4724 Interesting I never heard that before! I can't find a reference to this online with a quick search. could you please share your reference? I want to read further on this.
That was so beautiful at the end. The way you described everything during your teaching... But at the end it was so sweet. Thank you Jon.
I would like to hear your thoughts on the Brothers Grimm collected story "The Gingerbread Man". Because here is a story about life as a cookie who finally meets the Psychopomp the Fox and they cross the River and he is eaten by the Fox. But that is OK because he was a cookie and cookies are supposed to be eaten.
I will do a series on Folklore next year, and I'll make sure I'll cover this.
Another fabulous video, thanks as always for the hard work you put into your videos.
Thank you for your kind words.
A river boundary in the underworld must be some archetype or something its so common and its always how ive pictured the underworld: A small river, or creek, that must be waded or crossed over to reach a shady tree or grove. Its deeply impressed into my mind
The Waters are seen as the primordial source of everything. There are terrestrial waters, subterranean water, and cosmic waters. So that is why Poseidon was originally symbolized by horses emerging from the waters. The Dawn Goddess emerged from
The waters so the water goddesss like Danu/Anu, Anahita, aditi, etc are the primordial cosmic waters.
What a fascinating video! You're just the best. Have no words to thank you for such an incredible and consistent work! Thank you!!!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
thank you for the subtitles
Nice UA-cam trophy 🏆!
Another very interesting subject, thank you Jon
Amazing work. 😊
Breath going to the wind is a beautiful idea, your loved ones would be with you, bring the rain and maybe show displeasure through strong winds that blow stuff over. Thanks for the knowledge. Have a great evening.
I love that you revisited Kolyo! Ive been interested in her since I saw your original video on her. Im trying to find the Güntert work so I can learn a bit more about her and her cognates myself, but I've only been able to find the German version. Where did you find the English version? Or did you just read the original German version?
i love hearing good researched work and your way of presenting it is perfect for the subject awesome job keep doing what you're doing cuz we love it
Thank you very much!
@@Crecganford kudos given where kudos are due 😊👍😁
Thank you so much for sharing this information. It helps me understand how our current experience came to be- and gives me clues to the roots of my own struggles 🙏🏼🦋
You’re welcome.
A great video again ❤
Thank you.
WOW! You blew my mind tonight! Things are all coming together now with this episode! Thanks!
Thank you, I’m happy to hear you enjoyed it.
Thank you, I’m happy to hear you enjoyed it.
Wonderful video again. So interesting to learn about early human concepts of death. Thank you.
You’re welcome.
I absolutely love you! Thank you for all of your wonderful work ❤
Thank you!
Perfect video, one of the reasons I subscribe, thank you!
Thank you.
I'm only 5 minutes in, & I already love this one SO much!!!
Thank you!
@@Crecganford You are so much more than welcome, Sir.
Fantastic video.
Noose? My mind went to the bog body man who was a manicured, prepared sacrifice wearing a noose. 😮
7:56 its so interesting to me how through science we've proved all this. i love that our ancestors knew the same things we knew, even if it was through a different lense
A noose or rope ... wait ... consider ... the Lasoo of Truth wielded by Wonder Woman ... beautiful to meet ... 😊
The most fascinating part is that I have read an idea, can't confirm if it's fully scientifically proven, is that there is a finite amount of matter in the universe meaning that the matter does get redispersed. The author suggested that there is an amount of matter from Einstein in all of us
"Goddess of Death, wohoo, let's go!" she shouted, fist in the air. 🤣
Good work
Thank you so much 😀
Great video
Thank you.
Really enjoy this content
Thank you so much.
Be the change you want to see… is the message I’m taking away from this. Thank you. ✌️💗🤘
Rick Veda - lesser known brother of Darth Veda
😂
Ive seen several Kreganforts, but this is my 1st one with tea. :) looking forward to it
Excellent!
Love the channel! Do you have a book list available for any given topic for anyone wanting further learning/resources? Thank you!
I have made a video about some books to read on mythology and in most of my descriptions I note the key sources I used. But if you have a specific question and can't find the answer then please ask.
@@CrecganfordI’ll check out the book video first. Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you so much, your support is so very much appreciated. Thank you!
I was once in Indonesia on a dark road in a traffic accident attributed to the demon named Kuntilanak - beautiful from the front but rotting and bleeding from the back, which reminds me of Hel, except there she really is considered to be malevolent
❤ got my cup of coffee, ready to start.
FANTASTIC! Kolyo is my DJ name!
That’s a cool DJ name!
@@Crecganford Thanks!
A great look into the myths of the thing that happens to us all!
Just trying to hold the big archetype characters in my head here, I realise precision is impossible in this field but, broadly, we've got "1st priest/connected with death but not quite king of THE underworld", Odin in the later period in the west and all the way back in time and in the middle East that would be Enki. A weird transition but let's roll past that. There's the one who gets sacrificed who does end up king of the underworld but in both of the examples I gave, Norse and Sumarian, he is eclipsed by the female figure of the underworld, which is who this video is about. So that's three underworld related figures. Then there's also the Queen of Heaven young sexy version we tend to know as Venus/Aphrodite, plus a storm/sky God type figure who is sometimes good (at least nominally, he never seems THAT good to me) and sometimes bad and then the hero son of either 1st Priest/wizard guy who would be Thor/Marduk OR he's a warrior god son of the storm guy Ares/Yaweh. So that's six. Plus the two parents salt/fresh water and I feel like there's at least one other female archetype in there who is a little wiser/related to magic and prophesy/less self centred? So 8/9 characters.
Is that basically the family tree? I'm trying to do the abstracted version and not any one mythology. Although that may be a silly thing to do that doesn't actually make sense as an undertaking.
Just subbed after catching about a dozen vids. I'm a (TST) Satanist who has been doing comparative religious studies since 5th grade (64yo now). You've a good brain
Thank you.
The more I know about these past beliefs recombining and growing apart organically ... the more I know the details, the more I am nauseated by the modern culture-bound churches with their delusion of uniqueness, superiority, and exceptionalism.
Just as I suspected as a kid, they don't even know what they're doing, why they're doing it or where it started or came from.
- writers live on.
Enheduanna, Homer, Twain, King ...
it is interesting how similar to modern laws of physics some of the principles of indo-european religion are. the world being created from the spreading of an individual thing (the big bang coming from a singularity), the indestructability of matter and so on.
Great video, as usual......but geez Jono, go and get some decent sleep will you!!!💚
Yes! I noticed that when watching this back earlier, I have bags under my eyes! It's been a busy week term starts tomorrow... and then I'll get back to normal sleep patterns.
Do psychedelics pop up? Kykeon, soma, mushrooms? I'm from Ireland and Halloween happens right at the peak of mushroom season.
When my eyes look at the sun, it triggers a sneeze,, a light sneeze. Im still alive after that happens, everyday its evolved from being in darkness for too long.
Please can you tell me if you have a video or thoughts about the proto-Indo-European influence on Japanese mythology and the warrior culture that developed there (eg kofun/ kurgan burials and the Way of the Horse and Bow)?
I don’t, I only mention Japanese mythology occasionally in passing. If this is something that enough people want I am happy to make a video about it.
I’d be interested!
*"One thing now, that never dies, the fame of a dead man's deeds"*
*Hail Odin!*
Hi Crecganford,
I've been watching your videos for a few days now and I find them very interesting and informative. I'm a writer and I'm currently writing a story which involves an important (fictional) cosmogonic myth and variations of it. I really want to get this myth right and make it realistic. And your videos have been helpful in this regard. That being said, nothing beats being able to ask direct questions. So I just wanted to ask you the following question: What are important things to consider when thinking about how and why a myth changes over time?
Not sure if you'll see this comment and I fully understand if you're too busy to answer, but if you have the time I'd really aprpeciate it and it would be tremendously helpful to me.
I only have time for a short answer here, and it is that environment and social needs are the main drivers for the evolution of myth, e.g. when people migrate to a new geographic region, or the key drivers of an economy alter, then myth changes to match these.
@@Crecganford First, I want to thank you very much for the (very fast) answer and it's certainly useful (and that definitely was in line with what I've taken away from your videos so far). Second, since you don't have the time for a longer answer here (and I absolutely understand that) is there any way that I could get a longer answer somewhere else (such as via mail) at a time that's convenient for you? Or if not, any specific source that you can point me to that gives a good, detailed overview of this topic specifically?
Unrelated to this video, here are some things I've been wondering about. Maybe one of them could be a future video...
Are there indo european roots to yoga, and perhaps some legacy of similar practices in pre christian Europe? Or is it an exclusively Indian origin?
Is there a common origin to the idea of a cosmological force (dharma, wyrd, logos, dao, etc.)?
Indo european religion and Tengrism appear to have a number of similarities. What is known about their influences on one another?
Your work is appreciated. This is one of the most interesting channels on youtube.
Thank you. I read somewhere that Sweden really made yoga what it is today, but I believe the original version, although significantly different to what we know as yoga today, is from India.
Excellent analysis, well put. Heroes, Epic stories and immortality. Haven't thought about it like that for years. Thanks. I wonder what some of the autocrats of today will end up being portrayed as?
Hearing their belief in ritual sacrifice was for balance might sound scary to us now. Probably no different than devout Christians who believe they need to sacrifice their time & energy for glory to their god. So many concepts, gonna have to watch it again! 😊❤
The Abrahamic God sacrificed his only son, the sacrement of Communion.....
The Western Europeans sacrificed millions of native Americans to their Abrahamic God.
One thing I'm curious about, how do figures like utnapishtim, mortal men who achieved or were granted immortality, fit into this?
Have you looked into Romanian Witch practices? When someone dies, a bridge is made across a stream for them and what happens to the bridge over the year informs the living if the individual was good in life and accepted across or not and if any further rituals need to be performed and I'm sure there are more traditions around all that. Makes me think of the Ferryman and land of the dead being separated from the living by water except that this is a living folk tradition of the myths and stories.
Yes, it definitely is related, and possibly influenced from a later migration from the East as we see this is much of Romanian and Hungarian folklore.
Our best descriptions were left with the Vedas- NO I AM- this becomes untranslatable when you forget the destination, and means to get there- even if partially. In fact, it’s untranslatable to all living in Maya except the most Enlightened.
No one’s ever explained that so well, and I missed that part of the Vedas, thanks, C
Also, can the kër be related to the norns? Rope, thread, shears, noose?
One can see despite a lot of valid Scando-Germanic hatred for Christians, Christianity inevitably would have some real appeal for many.
Oops never finished this so here I am
Oh Ozymandias... All crumbles into sand and dust.
Hi John BostonBilly here, lost my phone. I remember reading a long long time ago that when Zues freed the cyclops, they gave three gifts trident Poseidon, thunderbolt Zues, and helm of darkness or invisibility for Hades. But I also read that even though he was the master of Hades even he was not allowed too leave the underworld so the helm made it easier for him. But when I said it I was told off and told after the titanomachy they drew straws n then split the three treasures. But I remember it was because of these 3 specific weapons helped them win the war. The hekotokeres had the 50 or 100 arms plus were gigantic so they threw so many stones it wore down chronos to wear the thunderbolt did end it.... But u tell me please ❤❤
It is amazing how infamy can be just as immortalizing as fame. Sometimes even more so.
I must admit, when you where talking about immortality through remembering stories and singing the names of past people... my brain shouted "Leeroy Jenkins".
There was a time when he was famous, well within the WoW community at least.
@@Crecganford this is true
The thing in Easter Europe there is the belief that hell is not in the subterranean world but rather above our world and below heaven.
I LOVE YOU!!!!
It’s so odd to me that Kolyo would be Calypso to the Greeks when Persephone rules the Underworld with Hades. (It does explain why Odysseus would not have desired to stay on Calypso’s island in the Odyssey.) Could this be an example of older gods being supplanted by newer mythologies?
I should make a video about Guntert's paper, to explain the linguistics behind his assertations. Maybe next year, and so I can answer this then.
If I am not mistaken Persephone was an Anatolian (Turkey) origin. That would have been the first farmers, the descendants of the people from Catal Hulyak. The PIE speaking people began with the Yamnia who lived on the North side of the Black Sea.
@@Crecganford I’d love that, and I’ll look for Guntert’s paper as well for reading. Thank you for the response!
@@leekestner1554 that’s very interesting, thank you! Do you have any recommendations for reading?
Soul used to be a word conceptually identical to consciousness. It's quite fair to suggest they had a concept of consciousness, otherwise they couldn't have a concept of death, aka loss of consciousness. This belief in reincarnation that they seemed to believe in was a belief that they returned to the cosmos and then got reshaped into new life by the cosmos. The ferryman would most likely then be a kind of metaphorical expression of the journey of consciousness to become one with the cosmos, having your consciousness be reduced to nothing while you feel oneness to the afterlife. Christians describe this as becoming one with God after dying, and also as going to heaven. The vikings believed in valhalla but also had clear signs of reincarnation in things like the pig särimner. They believed that their soul was one with the cosmos but also separate, hence the two brothers, or like christiany explains it, the father son duality. The second meeting of nicaea discussed what that meant
Damn.... ok i fked up. I grabbed a cup of coffee and got ready, started your post, realized you said tea, not coffee 🤦🏼♂️ ok ill get it right next time 🤞🍀
Coffee is ok, doubly so for my American friends.
an important correction, the Nordic culture believe the wind represented the mind or concept of thoughts. That's the soul is a product of its thoughts, and I thought the product of the soul. It can change like the wind.
Nordic belief changed over a thousand years, it was not consistent.
Did u make a potato? Or vedic one if so. There's so many talking about it I'd love too hear it from u heh ❤❤😂😂
Don't pay the ferryman,until he gets you to the other side,lol, I'm Irish through n through and my family still pits coins on our deads eyes just before we close the coffin to pay the ferryman,it's an old pagan tradition