Going to the Underworld: The mythology and its gods
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2023
- The Journey to the Underworld Motif appears in much mythology, but there are differences, alongside similarities that spread across thousands of miles, cultures, and years. This video looks into this motif, tells many versions of myth, including Persephone, Adonis, Inanna, and Baldr's, and talks about them in context.
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This channel deserves a whole lot more recognition than it receives. The content its just priceless, the presentation needs no flashy lights, no image shaking no loud music, special effects or anything. Its pure talent in storytelling, deep, vast knowledge and a cup of tea. Just perfect.
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.
Agreed. Absolutely love this channel. In one sense I find it a shame that I know absolutely zero people that would appreciate the information here, yet at the same time it makes it feel like my own hidden gem
@@colinspencer4914 Yes He's one of the few modern experts in sharing the details of ancient tales, it only took one video for me to see his skills.
This reminds me of the Japanese story of Izanagi going to the underworld to see his wife Izanami again, hoping to retrieve her. Izanami tells him that she's already eaten food of the underworld, so she can't come back. Then, despite promising not to look at her, Izanagi lit a fire, and sees Izanami as a rotting corpse then runs away (like Brave Sir Robin...boldly ran away, away...).
Inanna hanging from a hook reminds me of Odin hanging from the world tree.
I was thinking the sane as i listened!!!
Or the hanged man in tarot
Many of our stories are far older than most people think.
Criminally underwatched channel, and I will maintain that opinion regardless of how much it grows, because it's awesome.
Thank you for your kind words
You have such a calm and soothing voice for narrating these beautiful mythologies. I appreciate your work, good sir!
Thank you.
I know that your focus has always been on IE mythology but I really like the videos on Near Eastern myths and would like to see more
Thank you. Where it overlaps IE I feel comfortable talking about it, so thank you for your support.
'no one wants to die' I cannot emphasise enough just how much I wish this statement was true 😢
On the inverse, if one could choose to LIVE, but in a kinder world, in a more capable body, with a less afflicted mind, surely one would elect to do so. In this way, 'nobody wants to die', makes perpetual sense.
For me it's not so much as "no one wants to die" as opposed to "Valar Morghulis" aka "Every One(Man) just die" I've accepted that I'll die. I don't understand being afraid of something that is unenviable.
Excellent video! Your rendition of the story of Orpheus and Eurydice is moving. Hail to the power of music and undying love. 🖤
Hail my dear friend :)
Isn´t it funny, that the last few sentences, about living a purposeful life so that your loved ones will keep you in good memory and you are able to live on, is something we, til this day, maybe with a bit of struggle and contemplation, finally decide to aim for in our lives!😊
Tonight is miniature painting night... So it's a good time for a marathon here at Crecganford...
It's good to be back!
excellent as always. The myth of the Underworld is my favourite myth, as so many stories and fairytales throughout mankind's history are built on this particular one. Also, it is worth noting, that the food of Pomegranate had a special meaning in Phoenician, Greek and Roman belief systems. The fruit ripens at the end of summer, it is actually the last of all fruit to ripen. So by eating it everybody knows that summer will come to an end soon.
The Cycles of Inanna are my favorite, I would love to have you cover them, especially the story of her visit to Enki to claim the ma- gifts of civilization. Thanks for your amazing work, you express such empathy for the ancient storytellers as we try to get a feel for what they intended, and how they may have felt and believed.
I’ve worked a lot with underworld myths and have never thought about the potential lesson of being able to visit (temporarily) with ancestors. Profoundly helpful for both my academic and spiritual applications. Thank you!
If I am remembering right, the translation that I read Ereshkigal was angry at Inanna because of the Bull of Heaven. In a separate story, The Epic of Gilgamesh, Inanna had begged the use of The Bull of Heaven to kill Gilgamesh because he had spurned her. But Gilgamesh defeated and killed The Bull of Heaven. Ereshkigal was taking it personally.
Great video. With Easter not far behind us and summer upon us it's fitting and well timed
Thank you.
I'm a devotee of Hekate, so thought I'd mention that the Greek version of the Rape of Persephone is different from the Roman one (The Rape of Proserpina), unlike what is said in the vid. I know there is only so much time, and it's already a long video, so not a criticism or judgement, but I thought I'd share what I know for anyone interested in the comments. In the Greek version, Hekate hears the rape of Persephone, as did Helios. Some believe she is the daughter of Helios so it could be a link there, but most think he's not related to her at all and that her father is instead the Titan Perses (which is what I believe). The motif of the number 9 is present in this story: after 9 days and nights, Hekate comes to tell Demeter about the fact that she heard the rape of Persephone, not Helios. Hekate then uses her two torches to help guide Demeter through the underworld to find Kore/Persephone. When Kore returns to Hades every year, Hekate goes with her, which is where her associations with the underworld began, arguably.
I think the difference between the Greek and Roman myths shows the different things those cultures had in common, but also where they differed. Both were patriarchal societies, but different. In the Greek version, it's the women banding together to figure it out because the men don't give a shit (Hermes does help tbh, but otherwise....). This might perhaps be an indicator that Greek society might have had more community between women, even tho women were relegated to the home, not really allowed to move freely in society, were not considered citizens. So maybe they needed to rely on each other since they couldn't expect the men to treat them like human beings, which is why in the Greek story it is Hekate who helps Demeter. Rome wasn't much better, but it was a little bit better, so maybe this is why women figure less prominently in the Roman story: because Ceres knew she could go to Jupiter and that Jupiter would give her someone to help her find her daughter.
Hermes and Hekate were both gods associated with crossroads (which is linked to travel), of liminal spaces, are at times both in the story or used interchangeably because there was a lot of overlap, so perhaps this is why she figures in the Greek myth whereas Hermes/Mercury is in the Roman one. But who knows, so much has been lost to time.
Thank you for taking the time to expand on the topic, I can happily produce a comparison video where with more time I can show these details if there is enough demand.
I would love to learn more about Persephone in the underworld
Yes, I think a deep dive on this myth is very much appropriate from all the comments I've received. Thank you.
This is the channel I come for for deep insights into comparative mythology which is a subject I love but dont get to focus on much. Anyway, I wanted to mention something about a parallel in chinese stories. During the Tang dynasty in china, there were Zhi Guai stories that involved people willfully or unwillfully going to the world of divine beings or something similar, then they sometimes came back or sometimes didnt. My Chinese literature teacher said it was a reflection of the aristocratic society in Tang China that did not allow for much class mobility among the citizens.
I always get myself a cup of tea when I watch a programme
Inanna was identified with the planet Venus by the Sumerians. This planet regularly disappears and reappears so her descent into the underworld and restoration to heaven reflects this.
Thank you for a fantastic show
And thank you for watching and commenting, it is appreciated.
Love going back to the really early myths!
Good little article.
"Tastes from Beyond: Persephone's Pomegranate and Otherworldly Consumption in
Antiquity"
Meredith J. C. Warren
... Been there, done that... And I am back!
Cheers, Jon.
This one was truly inspiring.
Thank you much!
It's time to grow that THICC wisdom beard out bro. Enki says you deserve it.
Another gem for me! Loved this 💯
Thank you.
I heard one variation of the Osiris myth: He is cut into 14 pieces, each one representing a phase of he Moon. But one (his phallus) is lost, representing the New Moon, which is dark!
Dan white thank you for all of your work, and for ALWAYS being consistent.
The march of seasons is no mystery. Nature's reactions to the march is mind blowing!
Especially considering the polar seasonal opposites
Love the video as always, heres my algorithmic help.
Thank you, it is appreciated.
Crossing water to go underground after judgement, could also be transportation to a deep mine as in a slave or convict.
These stories are reflected in the letters written by working class women to magistrates asking to be transported to Australia with husbands, because otherwise a 3 year sentence for the husband was a life sentence for wives.
Another ausome lesson Jon! Keep up the great work, and looking forward to your next video. As always educational and informative. Have a great day/weekend.
This was the video I was always hoping for!!🖤 thank you!
well done, I enjoyed it. 😃
Have you read "Jason and the Argonauts through the Ages"? Interesting read. It does a great job piecing the origin of the story back to a belief that Cholcis was originally called Aea, a place in the underworld where the sun stored it's rays.
Jason even gets eaten and brought back to life in the underworld.
Please do a video mythological beliefs behind hair and eye color
The Inanna story is later told with Ishtar's descent in a later period, but If I'm not mistaken. The Sumerian version depicts Inanna holding the measuring tools which her sister Nisaba is said to hold in Enki's World Order. Then Inanna gets Ereshkigal to stand form her throne and sits in it herself. This depicts Inanna as trying to take the domains of her sisters. This is the reason the that Anunnaki or Anuna, (depicted as seven judges in Descent) sentence her to death. It might even be that the reason Enki takes pity and has her resurrected is because it was his job to hand out dominions and he could perhaps feel that this could be his responsibility for not giving Inanna enough to keep her happy. Then again Inanna very frequently seen as a conquering war goddess that never seems satisfied. It is completely in character for her to act as a conquering goddess. Usually that aspect is reserved for war, but in Inanna's descent it comes out more like trickery, although it isn't clear how she would have gotten Nisaba's measuring tools, it does seem that there is trickery involved in getting Ereshkigal to stand form her throne. If I recall there are some breaks in the text though that makes it not entirely clear how that was done.
There is alot in this episode to unpick. Already on my third listen. Love it
Thank you, and if you have questions ask them here and there is a reasonable chance I will see them.
It seems that as people have migrated, they have carried their religious mythology with them, and over time, these stories have changed to correspond with the new lands that people have come to and the new living situations that they have encountered.
Maybe a fear of death is also at the heart of things.
The Hero who conquers Death is a very powerful motif, and I suppose it's comforting to say that good people who stand for worthy causes never truly die.
Anyway, as always, I appreciate your channel and your storytelling.
Pomegranate seeds is such a good choice to express sex, or rape, or losing virginity. From now on I won't look at pomegranates the same way.
I had a dream that a Ferryman took me across a great plane of calm water at night, to the East. He and the ship were old looking, wearing black, and ghostly. I saw hundreds, thousands of skeleton spirits crossing the water from North to South. We traversed through the waters quickly. That led to other parts of the dream.
super interesting..I will watch it again 😊
Great subject. Thanks for the summaries and comparisons. Food for thought.
Hey creganfort. Love your stuff, man. As someone with a lifelong interest in mythology ( I read the Golden Bough when I was nineteen) I find this stuff top notch and really appreciate your academic rigour. UA-cam posts about mythology veer towards wu-wu land and its great to find content creators who don’t suffer from that imaginative affliction. I’m going to throw a suggestion at you now. I don’t know if you’re looking to grow this channel in terms of eyeballs or whether that’s important to you. For some reason, I doubt it. I’m guessing your motivation is more on the academic side of things. But if you were looking to inflate the arithmetic, there’s a ps5 game called elden ring whose lore is a clever composite of Indo-European mythology. I don’t know if you play games. If you don’t, I apologize for taking your time to read this comment. But if you do, you should check it out. They’re doing something quite clever with the evolution of European religious practise. Complete dipshits are getting thousands of views for their opinions on this game and most are clueless about the historic evolution of mythology. Somebody with real knowledge in this field could get a lot of attention. Not that I think that’s what matters to you. That’s certainly not the impression I get of your character. But like I said, what they’re doing is interesting. There’s a killer twist at the bottom of it. A puzzle for the initiated. I think you’d like it.
I died three years ago. I don't remember anything. Now I wonder if that means I didn't have enough to pay the ferryman, so I was sent back to work until I can afford to die.
In the earliest myths you didn't have to pay the ferryman, I guess capitalism came to Greece and so the Ferryman eventually wanted his cut :)
This was like always a great video! And just as an opinion: A deeper dive into the myth and history around the story of the abduction of persephone would be very fascinating - especially because this myth is so often portrayed in modern media with the rose-colored glasses of romanticism and with an often very narrow perspective on the nature of the characters and the myth. (Sorry for the bad English, but it is not My native tongue)
A very interesting interpretation and analysis but also with a manner of valuable insight of the past.
Wonderful video as usual!
One major complaint - there is a high pitched feedback like thing that cuts in and out through the whole video and it's very distracting.
I'd LOVE to hear you dig deeper into the surrounding mesopotamian stories. Like, how Inanna got Erishkegal's husband (the bull of heaven) killed. How Nergal bashed the doors down to the underworld and set guards (on Enki's suggestion iirc) to hold them open and then nearly beat Erishkegal to death until she agreed to let him be king of the underworld. The whole Gilgamesh loses his football in the underworld and gets sad so he does down and hangs out with Enkidu for a bit and get it back. The same story, but it involves Inanna being sad about her Tree having a snake a lilitu and a demon in it. Like, there's SO MUCH cool shit in this part of that mythology that no one puts together, but over the years you've given me the feeling that you could put it together seemlessly.
Hell, while you're at it, make sense of Ningirsu/Ninurta (and why they're Nin--, but get translated as masculine for some reason).
Anyway, love your channel, love this video (the audio problem aside), love your subtitles and really appreciate them. Keep up the amazing work!!!!
Damn only jus discovered this channel. Sweet content...
I paused at the beginning because I just had to say it feels like Inanna would have been visiting her sister because of the pregnancy, not only because she was a fertility goddess but also because the Underworld isn't known as a place to bring life forth.
Just a fun guess, though.
Always brilliant thank you.
yes, deep dive, please! if i had money i'd donate it.
@creganford, around @14:00 or so in, you got me to thinking about Japanese mythology. Izanagi and Izanami making the world. A goddess was trapped in a cave for three months, and so annually, the world remembers by dying back for three months, then bursting into life for nine. The Japanese musician, Kitaro, did a CD, Kojiki, circa 1990. which musically reveals the story in 7 acts. There is much more to the story than I related here; an entire packet with the original CD, one of my most cherished possessions. Be well, and thanks for your content.
P.S. Honey, I hear your voice cracking up at the end of this. I hear how you feel about death and loss, and I am here with you on that. I am 54. I am a widower, lost all grandparents, one parent, and my only sister, plus a dozen or so pets. We are the ones who make meaning for life. We give each other meaning, so let me tell you: You have improved my life. One of my BAs is Religious Studies, and one of my minors is Anth. You are helping me keep up with my studies, even tho I will never be able to use what I have learned, other than to share with others. You have that covered.
Thank you for watching, for sharing, and your kind words. They are appreciated.
Thanks
Nodens/Nuada is interesting in that way I find. More similar to osiris in losing power once rendered incomplete. It is above all most important to live with purpose, pride, keeping your oaths and choosing to do good instead of bad.
love the Content!!!
Thank you
I’m surprised you have no mention of Hekate in the Greek version of the underworld. Maybe in a future episode ?
I was pondering making a deep dive video on Persephone and so would cover Hekate in that.
Are you saying /ur/ is the name of the Sumarian Other World, as in their city Ur, the Ur of the Chaldees that Abram is called from? Just a connection my ears made. Haven't thought much about it, just asking?
8:08 - underworld in Egypt.
13:13 - roman greek
Wonderful! Would like to know more about influences of myth and migrations in and out of India 🙂
Great video.
How do these myths influence the alchemy traditions?
I live Sumerian mythology. Hopi and ancient South American tribes to. The dogon.
Can you make a video about the origin of the world tree myth and its dispersal around the world?
That is on my To Do list, and so I will make it this year.
All your contents amazing, thankyou for putting this on UA-cam for us to enjoy . I was wondering if you could give a brief opinion since your time is obviously valuable but I have a question to clarify an aspect of an afterlife and need to return. My question concerns when death was not an issue since it seems for a time immortality was the normal and death came after in the forms of external causes such as being killed and not dying like now which has many causes. Again thankyou for such great content.
And thank you so much for watching and your kind words
This was done during the months of July & August, called the Maqlû, which is when the Dog Star Sirius rose and set with the Sun, during the hottest days of summer, calling for the summer rains to come save the crops or cool the fever of the king. After the summer is the fall, when the crops produce, or give birth.
The Maqlû, “burning,” series is an Akkadian incantation text which concerns the performance of a rather lengthy anti-witchcraft, or kišpū, ritual. In its mature form, probably composed in the early first millennium BC, it comprises eight tablets of nearly a hundred incantations and a ritual tablet, giving incipits and directions for the ceremony. This was performed over the course of a single night in the month of Abu (July/August) when the perambulations of the spirits to and from the netherworld made them especially vulnerable to its spells. It was the subject of a letter from the exorcist Nabû-nādin-šumi and the Assyrian king Esarhaddon.
Originating from the Akkadian, Babylonian, and Sumerian mythology, Irkalla (also Ir-Kalla, Irkalia or Ereshkigal) is the queen of the Underworld and guardian and patroness of the Dark City, and has the ability to raise the dead. Her name translates from ancient Sumerian to mean "the big land" or literally "Underworld."
Pabilsag was the father of Damu the Child, you're calling Damuzid, he was the inventor of the Plough, The young Inanna of Sumerian poetry, who says "Plough my vulva, man of my heart", Plabilsag was also called Ninurta, from the original Lord Plough, His primary symbol is the plough, as well as his mace Sharur. Ninurta´s character is known to be tempestuous(Chaos). The Mace being the Club of Orion, Pabilsag is Sagittarius, where you find Spiculum, a little bloody red spot, meaning Spear, the location of the Winter Solstice Sun, Damu and Bau/Gula/Baba, the wife of Pabilsag, known Healers, Damu the Dying and Rising god, as Doctors, they would use the Speculum (not Spiculum) to look where babies come from.
Sagittarius is the location of the Golden Gate of the Gods, in astrology, the Hips & Thighs, holder of your Buttocks (Donkey), Scorpio is the Sexual Organ, making Ophiuchus the hidden Womb, or is it the Door to the Underworld, its 7 main stars form a cave door Pyramidal at the top.
The Silver Gate of Man is located between Taurus and Gemini, where you find Orion.
All around the constellation of Ophiuchus are the symbols of your none Dying & Rising, Singing gods, Vega the Harp Star, a Bird with it's wings spread out, serenading it's lover, the Swan Cygnus, one of a very few birds that have a penis, the Dolphin Delphinus, which is associated with the Womb, and the arrow of Cupid, we call Sagitta, in the mouth of the Eagle Aquila, Whose at the Door of Ophiuchus, the Centaur and the Wolf Lupus, hung on a Spear, a Spiculum.
There are almost 10,000 species of birds and only around 3 percent of them have a penis. These include ducks, geese and swans, and large flightless birds such as ostriches and emus, and tinamous, a family of ground-dwelling birds closely related to the ratites. 100-3=97, if you look up the stars of Spiculum, known as the Lagoon Nebula, they are stars 9 and 7. Ha Ha Ha
The ancient Mesopotamian underworld, most often known in Sumerian as Kur, Irkalla, Kukku, Arali, or Kigal and in Akkadian as Erṣetu, Ereshkigal, Ereshkigal (also known as Irkalla and Allatu) is the Mesopotamian Queen of the Dead who rules the underworld. Her name translates as 'Queen of the Great Below' or 'Lady of the Great Place. In Sumerian, “kukku” means “(to be) dark”, “to darken”, “to become dark”. This is the cuneiform for it: Sumerian and Akkadian are unrelated languages. kukku also has a single common meaning in Akkadian, as. a sort of bread or cake. It is a Sumerian loan-word, gug. What is the Purim Holiday about, a bread that is shaped like a womb, made with pomegranate jam and poppy seeds. What is 9 months after this celebration.
Meaning of Pabilsag the Babylonian prototype of our Sagittarius, whose name means the 'Fore-Father' or 'Chief-. Ancestor'. A great way to end my comments too, like your video.
There are many myths about animals holding up the earth (world bearing animals like bahamut or elephants) or animals inside the earth (such as the minotaur in minoan mythology and mammoths in siberian and canadian mythology). Are they connected? What's their origin?
What I have learned from Indigenous Australians is that initiation ceremonies are not about how to live, but about how to die. The journey of death is the purpose of becoming a mature adult.
I've been to Hull three times. Still here though. Just.
i am so glad i don’t have to a test in all this. LOL :) 🌷🌱
I’m curious WHY Heracles born of Zeus and mortal was a demigod while Dionysus, born of Zeus and a mortal as well was a full god ?!?! Was there ever an explanation?!?!
Is it true that the inanna underworld myth and the sacred wedding with dumuzi was celebrated on Akiti which was celebrated around equinox also as passah and eastern?
Yes. Please say more about the initiation of women. I have not heard that myth before. 😊
When I heat the myth of Orpheus it reminds me of Lot's wife being turned to a pillar of salt. Not much else seems similar to me, so I wonder if they are related.
I'm not sure they are similar myths, but there is a motif in their which has some similarity.
Do you have a video on Freya vs Frigg? I have heard opposing perspectives on whether the two are the same goddess or not.
I don't but it is something I do want to talk about one day. I'll move it up my To Do list.
@@Crecganford I would love to see it. Your content is always a joy to see pop up on my feed. I love all your work and I look forward to future content!
Regardless of water, though, the trees are in bloom during the summer. There are leaves on the trees etc. It is only in winter that things appear to die, as well as animals going into hiding/hibernation etc. I think it all depends on where the myth originated. In Northern Europe, the summer does not look dead, but I suppose it might in Anatolia.
I think the crucial aspect is whether the Earth Mother causes stuff to grow or whether she causes the rain etc. If she doesn't cause rain (which in Indo-European mythology would probably have been the Sky Father's job, aka the Heavenly Bull) then the summer months would not appear to be the Earth Mother's "responsibility", so to speak 🤔 The heat is not her domain, and the rain might not have been either. Whether the plants and animals are alive would have been though.
I don't know if we know that it was a general rule that if you ate food in the underworld then you had to come back 🤔 I think it is only something we assume from this specific story, because it otherwise wouldn't make sense, but I don't think we have anything about this written down - which of course points to it being a rather old and/or widely distributed tradition/belief. Since it is not explained, and since it is not exactly logical, we have to assume that the storytellers strongly assumed that the reader would know of this rule and not be surprised or confused about it.
I think it is reasonable to say that it may be Indo-European, and possibly stem from the (pretty formalized) guest-host relationship traditions of the Indo-Europeans. This would have been widely known, and an old tradition too. It shares similar themes such as offering food to a guest in your house (or, realm - the place where you precide as the master) and being "linked" to the person who received you with xenia, "hospitability" (as the much more complex concept, in which you had to receive a guest/foreigner with food, entertainment, a gift and/or a place to stay the night). It would indebt you, and while it didn't mean you "had to return to the house of this stranger", it would link you forever and through generations, and it would be reasonable to assume that a link to the underworld would require you to go there every now and then (perhaps it started out with a link between fertility and death and then went on to mythologize that Persephone LITERALLY had to go there).
In favour of this is the fact that another Indo-European concept features heavily in this myth, namely the "marriage by kidnapping", where the groom "steals" the bride from her home to marry her (an act we see now as rather violent, but as you can see, Zeus/Jupiter accepted the offer before Hades/Jupiter 'stole' her with him - different times ..)
Oh this is just the right Saturday dish with my coffee and chocolate sprinkle donut. Ok, donuts.
Inanna's body hanging on a hook, much like a cow's carcass that has been slaughtered.
Dear Mr CupOfTea. 😅 totally love your stuff. Thank you so much. Question. Are you and ot your peers thinking of an AI language model to be trained on the database your all use? Please say yes.
Yes, it is something I have been working on for some months and I expect to have something produced for the end of the year.
Equatorial crossing into opposite seasons
I thought that cerberus would stop you leaving the underworld.
In later myths and tales he does, but his main purpose was to stop those who did not belong there from going in. I have made some videos about dogs and the Underworld which really go into the detail of this if you're interested in learning more.
My face to face with the Devil! It was a perfect autumn day, the temperature out side was cool with no wind. I'm afraid the truth will cost me. I came face to face with pure evil without awareness of any possible dangers. Could it be that I'm being bullied and being sucked in helplessly?? When I came face to face with this evil force. This evil force squeezed the life out of me. My legs were useless .A very scary experience. Just saying.
❤❤❤
As someone who's studied the ancient mysteries i can say that the very first third we are taught is that our soul is entombed in flesh the element of earth and that this isn't life.. what comes next is life.. this my friend is death and we ars all now In the underworld
I think it's a metaphor for the southern hemisphere
I think the removal of clothes is key to the story. Ishtar has great repute as a seductress, and her opponents are often the target of her seduction. But she has no power against her sister this way. In this story, Inanna goes univited to the underworld. The removal of clothes can be seen as a motif of her power. As she passes each gate she can be seen as trying to seduce a guardian, but who can inanna seduce in the underworld, certainly not her sister Ereshshigal, but her husband. But she is naked and powerless.
Its a story about pride and over-confidence. In the case that no matter how powerful she is against men, she is not ultimately supremely powerful.
There is also another motif, why does innana need to die. The problem arises in the Uruk-Ubaid. Two nearby villages merge into one, each with its own tutelary diety. Eventually Anu would rise up as the god of the white temple, a focal point of all of Sumer during the earliest civilization, but what is the power of the other god in this period. And so Inanna searches for power.
Just to see how Inanna is placed in the pantheon, she is not a wife of Anu or his daughter, but either a great- or granddaughter of Anu, well down the heirachy. In essense as other city-states rise up Inanna's position declines. And there is this distinction that she is a mistress, not by maternity, which gained women power through their sons (see Kub'uba) but through whom she can, in heaven, seduce.
Inanna is resurrected by Sargon I and the divine sky god is put out of his temple, following a long period of decline. Hence forth An/El will be more seen as a god of the wilderness and sojourners. Dumuzi is from bad-Tibera, a copper age city devoted for smiths, he is a shepherd, a sign of power and indepence particularly in war. He is a demigod, probably apotheotic in origin, who marries and subordinated full god. So Dumuzi promotes himself by marriage, in the same way Anu is promoted by the merger of two villages, which causes Inanna to fall in status, but then Inanna is promoted and Dumuzi (Tammuz) is demoted.
Bad Tibera is an important reference because it represents a time before the resuurection of Mari, that the Sumerians looked eastward for copper and low quality bronze. But the Marian kings would bring forth metals from the west and Bad-Tibera begins to fade in prominence. If we look at the important prediluvian cities we see Eridu, Bad-Tibera, Shurrupak, Nippur, Uruk, Kish at the top of the list. But that changes after the flood Ur, Babylon, Uruk, Mari, Akkad and cities with gods of foriegn names. And so the use of bad-Tibera is a depiction of the fading of power by the kings that look to the west for wealth. l
What is a roll of Dumuzi, he is one of the most well known gods of late antiquity, more so than enlil, and the overwhelming majority of mesopotamian gods. How does a demigod retain recognition even within the Jewish (monotheistic calender). The other god as well known is El, the god of the early hebrew bible. From the point of view of the story, Inanna casting out of Dumuzi is effectively a divorce. Inanna wants to marry gilgamesh. And so the metaphor is about power. Dumuzis power is cast down from the heavens and he never gets it back, but he retains his popularity among the people. This is very similar to El, he retains his power even as everthing collapses in the LBAC.
Is Osiris & Set an example of the Hero Twins?
They almost have a relationship that is an analog to Loki/Thor, but I also have to be honest to say I am not aware of enough Egyptian mythology to say for sure that they are definitely aligned to a Hero/Twin partnership.
Answer: . . . seeing as I'd be dead and no one loves me enough to come down looking for me, I'm going g to say "no." I wouldn't make it back from the underworld. I guess the concept of zombies didn't exist yet. Lol
some of the languages you list in the beginning are wrong. Its spelled "Deutsch"
its also "Nederlands"
Thank you for you help, I appreciate it.
Eurydice is pronounced with the final e!! 😁
do you think that the myth of Idunn and her apples being abducted is also a story of female iniation into adulthood? I see some parallels to it and the story of persephone
I will have a video on this soon which will answer this question, there is certainly a probability that they share a source, but how probable requires some more work by myself.
thank you for getting back to me @@Crecganford
another thought that I had is that the story is about soul retrival from the umbrella term of shamanic practices@@Crecganford. if the shaman retrives the soul then the person lives if not then they die. it's the same with the gods. Idunn represents the soul of the gods and if she is not retrieved then they all die. it could well be a combination of both.
Going to help her sister give birth surely must be a consideration.
That's a good point
In all your videos, you keep saying there seems to be no relationship between perkunas and rigveda; there was an older storm and rain God in rigveda called parjanya. Thanks
I can't remember ever saying that, and if I did I apologize because that isn't right, as I've made videos to say how the Storm God appears across Indo-European mythology, and how his name is cognate in these cases.
Not sure how convincing I find the notion that death and rebirth myths were analogies to the agricultural cycle (makes sense that agricultural civilizations might have a more cyclical way of thinking, but I'm not convinced of a direct connection), and I'm highly skeptical of the connection between tears wept for Baldr and the rain, let alone that this represents a Near Eastern origin for that myth. Overall though, interesting video.
References are given in the video if you wish to have an academic discussion with the original author of this specific point.
@@Crecganford I'm not qualified for that, I'm just sharing my opinion.
isn't there a story similar to that of Orpheus in Japan?
❤❤❤❤ you can travel to the underworld people do it a lot and come back
And I thought the Tube was bad........😶
Im trying...
Do you share an email address? I’d like to write to you. I got a couple degrees in myths back in the late 80s. Also, thanks. I’m an old woman now. I love your work.
My email address is available on the About tab, hello at Crecganford if you wish to share thoughts or ideas.
A cup of tea? I got some beer instead, Bub