Sega Black Belt - Cancelled Console - Sega Saturn Sequel!?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- #SegaBlackBelt #SegaSaturn #RetroGaming
Top Hat Gaming Man talks about the Sega Black Belt, The Sega Saturn Sequel which was not the Dreamcast.
Support me on Patreon
www.patreon.co...
Follow us on Twitch
twitch.tv/tophatchat
Like Me on Facebook! / tophatgamingman
Follow Me on Twitter!
@TopHatGamingMan
A man in a top hat, with a dashing moustache or a highly distinguished beard, reviews rare video games in his massive collection. Appreciate the finer things in life! Top Hat Gaming Man travels around the globe, playing the best games for the handhelds around the world. The best games are like fine wines and only get better with age. Today, Top Hat Gaming Man tells you what he knows about the Sega Black Belt. - Ігри
My god SEGA in the 90s is like a treasure trove of lost consoles
Yes for sure
Pretty sure the same goes for nintendo and sony, who knows what they had been hiding from us
3DFX most certainly had a presence in the arcades. The SF Rush games, for example, ran off of variants of the Voodoo3 boards. The PowerVR, which was still quite nice, used planar geometry rather than normal polygons, which supposedly allowed for more precise shadowing. This was done through a combination of Tile-Based Deferred Rendering and a unique Hidden Surface Removal technique. Supposedly, this allowed for more efficient processing of "triangle strips", rather than polygons. Unfortunately, the APIs for planar geometry didn't get much use, and the chipset simply didn't get a lot of support outside Sega's own ventures, with the exception of a scant few PC games (which didn't sell well at all).
Compared to the modern 3DFX chipsets at the time, the PowerVR wasn't actually more powerful. I had both a 3DFX Voodoo Banshee and a PowerVR2, and ran plenty of comparisons between them. They were pretty much neck and neck, whether DirectX, Glide or OpenGL were used.
So what does that mean? The 3DFX wouldn't have been a step down, it already had a presence in the arcades, and the graphics engine was both well-known and easy for developers. Had Sega actually chosen the Voodoo-based design, it might've gotten better third-party support.
Unfortunately, Sega of Japan made a lot more mistakes than just that. The 32X and SegaCD were both bad ideas, splintering their own market while adding few new customers. The Saturn was rushed, with little support from third parties, and released early with no warning. As such, it wasn't surprising at all to see the same bad decision-makers make more bad decisions regarding the followup to the Saturn.
Don't get me wrong. I loved my Dreamcast. I just wish Sega would've done right by it.
John Crafton 3DFx would have better choice than the PowerVR and plus Sega already made th Black belt why can't Sega release it instead of the Dural/katana console?
You must have neither watched the video nor read my comment. No one ever said the PowerVR2 was a better choice. Also, Sega made BOTH the Blackbelt and the Dural. The two were developed concurrently, with SoA developing Blackbelt and SoJ developing Dural. SoJ, having no trust in SoA or in 3Dfx, decided to go with their own design.
It's that simple.
Is it possible the Blackbelt could've been a better or more successful design? Sure. We'll never know. My own comment was to refute Sega of Japan's idea that the 3Dfx wasn't good for arcades, as well as the idea that it would've been a step down from PowerVR2. In other words, you're simply agreeing with me while making it sound like you want to argue.
I am not trying to argue with you. I am saying that Sega of Japan should have chosen the 3DFX chip over the PowerVR series since it will not alienate potential 3rd parties from the Dreamcast and the Banshee competitive with the PowerVR2.
It's sad to see that Sega were so incompetent because they certainly had the talent and the Dreamcast is my favorite console of all time
SEGA is so important to gaming history, especially in how it failed and how it's failures ended up turning into it's rivals
Another amazing video, i could watch SEGA history all day
It's such a shame Sega of Japan couldn't really work out things with its American counterpart until it was quite too late. From the multiple videos I've seen on the various Sega consoles, the Sega Playstation, and the graphics chip, it seems like Sega might have had a chance to recover had the Japan branch not been jealous or just plain bitter because of the success of Sega of America.
However, I will say that, with the situations that Sega went through in the ninties, the Dreamcast wasn't the worst console to end development with.
Joe Smith, you mean Peter Moore, not Peter Molyneux, Peter Molyneux had nothing to do with Sega, he was with Lionhead which were the company responsible for Black and White and Project Ego - the game that later became Fable, and was originally intended to be a natively built Dreamcast game.
Yeah Peter Moore not Molyneux lel. As much I like his early stuff, Molyneux's done enough to ruin his reputation without ascribing to him things he had nothing to do with ;)
@@swarthybullxxx fresh from the lips of the third Reich.
How the hell did you get three thumbs up?
"the Dreamcast wasn't the worst console to end development with."
I agree. A few years ago, just when I thought the Dreamcast was "dead," it's a console widely supported by homebrew game developers. And there is a thriving community of programmers for the console. Incredible.
Still, the Dreamcast is a pretty powerful piece of hardware. It's still a blast to play Club Kart in the arcades! (I know the NAOMI is a souped-up Dreamcast, but the graphics still could hold a candle to consoles of the same generation, if not better.)
The black belt wasn't the only attempt at making a successor to the Saturn. Nvidia developed a chip called the NV2 (which was partially working when they canceled it) which was a successor to their first graphics card, the NV1. But the NV2 was designed exclusively for sega's 64bit console and would also use quads like the Saturn and NV1. But Sega axed that to go with a triangle solution. Nvidia gave up on quads after the failure of the NV1 and cancellation of NV2, and moved to triangles with the NV3 D3D Rivia 128. Which was their first hit card.
In an alternate reality Sega and Sony are together as the true Japanese powerhouse making Nintendo tremble with fear. Can you imagine the Sega Playstation Pro vs. the Xbox One X...oh, the possibilities.
Back again with them EXTRA THICC thumbnails again and im not disappointed.
Love the Goku/Superman visual analogy. Relevant and accurate.
Whoa! I just realized Microsoft has been in the console race longer than Sega (17+ compared to 16)
They had great talents there, in both american and japanese branches, just imagine what could they had achieved if they managed to work together... imagine Tom Kalinski joining forces with Sony and Silicon Knights at the first 32 bit era. And extending that to 3dfx later! Sega Playstation 2 would be a real blast, and Sega Playstation 3 would probably extend the multimedia and online capabilities even more, it could lead even to a real contender to wintel platform!
Sega would have had a Monopoly.
It always makes me sad to see SEGA struggling like this and go out retiring from the console business forever.
I actually had the Sega Channel and the local cable company called me and asked me if I'd be willing to be in a commercial for them about the Sega Channel. Well being in the 90s and being a single guy who just turned 19 and had his own apartment, etc, I said hell no, I'd like to get laid and not known as the nerd in the Sega channel local TV ad.
You didn't consider that being on TV might've gotten you laid more? Hmmmmmmm...
It was 1995, if you played video games you were a nerd and a loser, the glorification of nerds wasn't a thing then. Also, no, being in a local cable TV spot has never gotten someone laid.
*It was 1995, if you played video games you were a nerd and a loser*
We lived during the same time, but lived very different experiences, because everybody played video games in my area. Teachers played them, all the kids played them, the girls played them. The girls who didn't used to sit around and cheer the guys on especially at the corner arcade when Mortal Kombat hit.
*Also, no, being in a local cable TV spot has never gotten someone laid.*
Sheee-it...
referral madness no, it was very gay and there was no money involved. If I was 13 it would be cool - but I was 19-20 and was on the hunt for poon - and being a dweeb on local cable saying how kewl Sega was would have made that impossible.
I gotta say, there was a point when I thought all you could possibly offer with all of these Sega videos, was played out fluff... But you've actually presented a lot, truly quite a lot of Sega history... of which I had no idea. I would think most don't. Good job man ...
The 3dfx chip in Black Belt was NOT based on Banshee. In 3dfx's SEC filing they mentioned the 2D/3D Voodoo Rush, 2D/3D Banshee, and a 3D chip being developed for Sega. The agreement gave Sega exclusive rights to the chip for 3 years and a royal free license to the Glide API.
P.s. The Dural (PowerVR) was a win for Microsoft. Microsoft managed to get rid of 3Dfx and Glide development and also Sega, as Microsoft was secretly developing the Xbox.
Management: a "foreign" word for SEGA(of Japan). For a company founded by an American which moved to Japan, it seems like when the Japanese took over to also took on a "chip on the shoulder" against their American division. They didn't hear everyone out and weight out each option no, they acted like a dictatorship and they(SEGA of Japan) could do no wrong, and the Americans didn't know a console from a bidet. Truly they were blinded to this point of having so many developments turning out Zero dividends. Like they were throwing tons of cast at a wall hoping something for stick. Atari only had two or three options out there around the same time and still flopped(again with a multi chip design that developers hated). It's like Ford or Chevy being impatient on engine development and putting in multiple engines into a car just to say "we have more horsepower, hah ha ha" and forgetting that it also means a harder time for maintenance/repairs technicians.
This was a great video on some history on Sega that I didn't truly know much about, but, at the same time, it makes me sad. It brings back memories for me of all the absurdly terrible business moves that both Sega of Japan and Sega of America made during late 1994 to early 1998 that basically sealed the company's fate as a first-party, video game giant, and I, as one of their many consumers that gave them many chances, suffered along with them. Keep up the good work.
It is such a pleasure to see your channel steadily growing into a beast! You've earned it, man.
You've done a few videos about cancelled projects recently. I heard about a cancelled add on during the ninties for the PS1 to help the machine run Tekken 3. I'd love to hear more about that, if possible.
I don't recall having to use any add on device to allow me to play tekken 3 on my original launch model ps1 back in the day. I had an external mod chip plugged into the rear serial port but that was just to allow my system to read games from other regions, burned copies of games as well as adding game genie cheat codes and stuff. There definitely wasn't any sort of add-on to boost the performance capabilities of the system available for purchase in the north American market region.
Don Merrigan The add on was cancelled if it was anything other than a rumour. Namco probably decided they could do an OK version without it. I think it was meant to be a RAM upgrade, or something.
I had a PS1 from launch and didn't need any add-on to play Tekken 3. I've never heard of such a thing until now.
The 3dfx chip was NOT Banshee. 3dfx's SEC filing specifically mentioned that they were developing a 3D only chip for Sega and that the chip would remain exclusively to Sega for 3 years.
Classic crap management structure. Unlike Nintendo, when competing to create the best version of a project, Nintendo does it within a square mile radius, not halfway across the earth!
Very interesting video. It is pity that Sega of America and Sega of Japan could not work along to together. there is nothing wrong with the Dreamcast, a console which i personally like more then the PS2 but Sega spend way to much money with making so many consoles. They could have used the money otherwise much better. Also this competition between SOA and SOJ costed the company many opportunities. Not completly sure about that but working along with Sony could have been a chance for Sega. Or using the graphics chip of Silicon Graphics instead the initial Saturn chips also could be a great chance for Sega..
Cutting off ones nose to spite one's face comes to mind.
Sega management was pretty good for leaving creatives to get on with making things so they were good in that sense. They were very slow to cancel any titles. The Saturn was obviously designed to be a 3D system not a 2D system it just had an arcade style multiple processor setup that Sega's in house developers were accustomed to but that was pretty incomprehensible to anybody else. The SGI processors weren't ready when they pitched them to Sega it's most of the reason the N64 arrived to market so late.
To be fair the power VR was used in the NAOMI Sega most successful long lived arcade hardware, their version of the MVS and CPS2
TL;DR version: Sega had 2 prototypes for their next console after the Saturn. One, named Blackbelt was powered by a 3DFX gpu, the other named Dural was powered by an NEC PowerVR gpu. The NEC-equipped console won and became the Dreamcast
If Sega just worked as a team they might still be here instead of never making another console. We would all love to see them come out with a console out of no where that destroys all competition but that's not happening! To bad, what a shame!
One small thing you missed THGM, 3dfx interactive was an offshot of SGI(Silicone Graphics Incoporated). So SEGA screwed the pooch with SGI twice effectively.
Saturn may now have been ready, but me and my nephew had so much fun with it being imported before it even came out in the states. I was diehard Sega, we even had 32x and Sega CD rom. I miss the first Slipheed.
A sega 3dfx console would have changed the game. Just imagine a 90s glide compatible console. Any respectable pc 3d game of the 90s supported the glide api. We would of had perfect ports of all the classic fps pc games and it would have been massive for sega. Oh well I suppose I can't complain to much as the dreamcast is still amazing and one of my favorites.
Dude, the PowerVR2 was Direct3D compatible as well as OpenGL compatible. It wasn't the GPU that was holding it back from being compatible. It was instead the Hitachi SH-4 CPU and the use of WindowsCE - neither of which would've been able to handle actual PC games.
I loved the 3Dfx stuff as well, and I do think they made a mistake; however, it had nothing to do with whether or not "perfect ports" were possible. The PowerVR2 was also a PC-gaming chipset, and the PowerVR2-based graphics cards played the same games as the 3Dfx ones, only without Glide as the API. Since most games handled multiple APIs at the time (DirectX, Glide, OpenGL), that wasn't really a loss at all.
+John Crafton
SH4 cpu is fine and Windows CE was used in the minority of DC games,it was a useless thing.
Dreamcast needed a dvd and a dual analog controller,with these,Ps2 wouldnt have a reason to exist.
Vasileios - You missed my point entirely. I was responding to the idea that the 3Dfx would've somehow allowed for it to have "perfect ports" of PC games. My point was that it wasn't the 3Dfx holding it back from doing so, but instead it was the SH-4 CPU (which had a wildly different architecture) and WindowsCE (which didn't support the same APIs). Both were "fine", but neither one made ports of PC 3D games easy.
The PS2 had "reason to exist" because Sony wanted to stay in the market that already gave them great success. Had Sega worked with them in making the console the previous generation instead of the Saturn, then the PS2 wouldn't exist. But since the Playstation was already a thing, and since it was quite successful, Sony would've made the PS2 regardless of whether or not the Dreamcast was better.
Maybe if it had if used the 3dfx chip then it would have also used an x86 processor. Who knows. Maybe it would have been the original pc architect console rather than the Xbox.
Don't get me.wrong I love the dreamcast, fantastic console that is often overlooked but I do think a glide api console would of been a big thing.
Maybe. You never know. By the time the DC came out, the Glide API had been pretty close to abandoned on the PC side for OpenGL and Direct3D. In many cases, the games simply used those as a wrapper for Glide, but most did not.
It was a decent API, and as close to the "metal" of 3Dfx chipset as you could get, and I'd have loved to have seen what a dedicated development for it could look like (beyond the Rush series). The 3Dfx version of Tomb Raider looked far better than every other version at that point, and Glide made the best of Quake II, Interstate 76, Resident Evil, Need for Speed II:SE, and MechWarrior 2. That said, the followups to those games ended up making things pretty even on the Direct3D and OpenGL cards like the Riva128 and the Matrox G400.
Maybe 3Dfx would still be in business right now if Sega had hooked up with them then. At the time, what they were doing was equal to the PowerVR2 and better than anything SGI had done for Nintendo. Plus, the PC-based architecture was far easier to develop for than Sony's custom "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer" combo.
In truth, I think Sega of Japan would've screwed up the Blackbelt release and subsequent support just as much as they did the Dural. At that point, I honestly don't believe they had a chance. When the heads of two different markets refuse to listen to each other and cooperate, neither one will flourish. It's a shame, really.
I remember the rumours of this back at the time, it seemed there wasn't a month that would go by without another different console coming from Sega really sad that Sega of America and Japan were pretty much being run separately because if they weren't they may not have thrown so much money into developing what was essentially two systems at the same time it happened far too many times.
If Sega of America hadn’t published so many terrible games at the end of the Genesis life, maybe Japan would have been more likely to listen.
RadRacer 88 yup...they wasted so much money on eternal championships....when they just couldn’t make the thing fly..Nintendo creamed them with killer instinct..
If sega was one ...they would have japan and America workin on games together ..imagine if treasure had worked the gameplay of eternal champions ...
1.The sega cd was not a total failure
The genesis not having an open color palette and enough ram ..bottlenecked the sega cd ..
2.And developers not taking time to make sega cd games an entity on its own and just slight upgrades to genesis games ..
They should have just
1.waited & optimize the genesis
With more ram ... more color ...better sound and the 6-button controller from launch ..
2.developed the sega cd as 32-bit system to be released in 1996 with pure 3d gaming in mind and to run 2d games wonderfully...
Sega mistake with the Saturn..was
1.the internal harddrive and video disk tech made it $100 dollers overpriced ....they should have went with memory cards or sticks
2.the controller wasn’t terrible but they wasn’t keeping up with the comp
*needed twin analog sticks like Sony
*built in rumble
*and long handles that the industry’s saw enhanced comfort
Source on that 90s promo video with the chick and dude with the microphones talking about the games?
Also wondering what the heck that was. It looks so familiar.
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that Sega were creating two consoles at the same time. It simply doesn't make any financial sense.
What is perhaps more likely, is that Sega of America were developing a home console, while Japan were working on the follow up to the Model 3 arcade hardware. "Dural" is the name of the final boss from the Virtua Fighter series after all, a series synonymous with the arcades that had a new entry launched alongside the Model 1, 2 and 3 hardware.
Perhaps at some point the decision was made by Sega to concentrate on a system that bridged the gap between the arcades and home. At which point, Blackbelt was dropped and instead the Naomi/Dreamcast combo became their focus.
Speculation I admit, but most of these theories are.
DCJY - the1ross similar fashion to the Saturn, Jupiter and Mars projects.
It doesn't make sense at all. But!!! consider this is Sega. They created the greatest system for its time and it failed. That also does not make sense. I HAD HIGH HOPES FOR MY DREAMCAST!!!!!
@@diddybootz Well they were running low on money to begin with when they launched it. So I'd argue it was a matter of time.
@@wonder-games3579 Yeah, when you run out of money the game is over. But nowadays most systems are using a Dreamcast function as their standard. First to do it and the first to fail. Gand opening Grand closing.....Is their a community of DC enthusiast?
Seriously Sega, you threw away the chance to use a 3dfx chip for NEC? NEC ffs!
Allot of great info I didnt know! Great vid bro! Keep it up.
Voodoo 2 and Voodoo Banshee, I think not. The Voodoo 2 is dual texture unit with no 2D, the Banshee is a single higher speed texture unit with 2D. Back then there is no way a console would have been made with both as it would have been tremendously costly to do so. It is possible that 3DFX could have created a dual texture unit Banshee but that would have been very expensive to make, especially one with decent performance. In reality I believe they would have created a single chip Banshee and used unified memory as it many cases this was faster than a Voodoo 2.
that half Saturn half dreamcast is pretty sexy looking. Looks like my next weekend will involve solidworks and a 3d printer
I had completely forgotten about the voodoo 2 add on graphics card I used in high school just so I could even run quake 2 on my old sub 1k mhz Pentium PC. It looked absolutely awesome with the added graphics power. I can't believe that sister cards with extra ram and a separate dedicated 3d processing chip actually used to be the cutting edge tech gamers had to use 20 years ago if you wanted to play any of the latest games on your home PC.
Blackbelt and Dural were the two prototypes for what would go on to become the Dreamcast. Blackbelt was the SoA version running on 3DFX and Dural was the SoJ version running on Power VR, which would later be selected to become the Dreamcast, much to 3DFX’s anger. Another example of how split SEGA had become towards the end ... such a mess, the DC was just too much too late, a shame as I loved both my Saturn and my Japanese DC!
From what I've seen/understand is that since the Sega Master System was somewhat unknown here in America of the late 80's since Nintendo was dominating the video game market. Made Sega push allot of effort into ads for the Genesis and tried to keep it on the market for all of the 90's with introducing the 32x and CD add-ons along with making 4 different model versions. Not to forget the Sega Nomad(Portable Genesis) was also out there. But then the Saturn came along and that's where Sega went downhill.
It's really bizarre how Sega (especially the Japanese HQ) was chronically shooting itself in the foot after its massive success until 1994-ish and rushed out the Saturn well before it had a respectable library and kinks ironed out (while alienating all the North American retail stores; a death blow!). The Saturn was not a bad console on principle but was a dismal failure next to the blinding arrival of Sony's PlayStation 1 and Nintendo's moderately successful N64....
Irony of saying 3dFX were really good at making graphics cards while showing a voodoo 5.
Makes you wonder if Sega were going to make a hologram gaming console much like their arcade hardware.
I still clearly remember that NEXT Generation article on the Dreamcast: Sega of America wanted the one with the 3DFx Voodoo (Black Belt), but Sega of Japan "handed the bride" to NEC and their licensed PowerVR technology ("Dural"--the eventual Dreamcast). PC gamers back in the day know that the video cards to have back then were ones with a Voodoo in it.
3DFX lawsuit put another dent on Sega. Sega should have chose either thr Dural or Blackbelt before building the prototypes. Vodoo Banshee would be able to be on par with the powervr2.
Todd Jamesonhow I know the Vodoo2 is underpowered. However the Banshee matches the PowerVR2 in clocking and memory. Also, has the 8 MB and 16 MB VRAMs. What sets PowerVR2 different from the Banshee?
at time (1998) the voodoo 2 was the most powerful 3d accelerator for the pc, you can even have them in sli for 24mg of video ram. In sli it was faster than the voodoo 3 or the banshee.
Frankxx87 didn't know that. How how fast it can go?
Interesting stuff, *another cancelled Sega console?* Just how many are Sega consoles did they nearly make?
Another great run down, keep em coming!
The best way to sum up Sega about that time is the left hand (America) doesn't know what the right hand (Japan) is doing.
I think you got your history not 100% correct. You totally skipped on the fact that the Saturn was quite succesful, in Japan, but failed in the US because the American SEGA CEO wanted to force a 3D only games release on the Saturn, wich was not its forte, and skipped on most 2D killer apps games. Then pestered SEGA to release a new more 3D powerful console, the Dreamcast, so quickly after the Saturn release, that most devs were quite pissed, one of them was EA, making the Dreamcast starving for sports games.
So, no. the American SEGA CEO was not "100% right"
Watch arcade Voodoo games of that era,all were suffering from framerate loses and bluring,Sega made a fine decision to choose PowerVR.
...And here I thought the "Black Belt" was just another codename for the Dreamcast while it was in development.
Big props to the background music from Sega Saturn Bomberman one of the best songs on one of the best soundtracks.. besides Daytona USA obviously... lol
It is a shame but it seems clear that the reason why Sega failed in the console business is that Sega Japan neither knew nor cared about markets outside of Japan and allowed a sense of egotism and nationalistic superiority to affect what should have been logical business decisions.
Another Proof that Nationalism Ruins Everything, & the "Na" in Nazi means National.
One question: Why is Mai Shiranui from Fatal Fury in the thumbnail?
Dreamcast was the first console 2K sports games appeared on since Sega owned those games before Take Two.
Although the 3DFX chip would have helped in getting more 3rd party support, the Voodoo Banshee technology was almost equally as powerful as the PowerVR 2 (remember PowerVR 2 was also available for PC of the time, and it wasn't that much impressive). The console would still have been fairly underpowered compared to the next gen (PS2, XBOX and GameCube)
that panzer dragoon RPG omg like it !!!
I've never bought this story, too many things just don't make any sense. The 3D Voodoo story is the only part that's has any real evidence but even then we don't know the full context.
Why outsource development to the US when development of their arcade division is in Japan? Why would they use foreign parts for the DC compared to their arcade machines? Why have 2 different division working across the globe spending millions on R&D when Sega is in deep financial trouble?
Not only that, but you would have to believe that Sega of America would have the budget to make deals with hardware manufacturers while Sega of Japan a) didn't even know about these deals b) was making similar deals at the same time for the exact same console - how does that make any sense on any logical, business or financial level!?
Sega was the sad result of two halves of a successful company wanting to go in two different directions. SOA was successful against Nintendo and should have been listened to. even though the Saturn was ready for Japan and was successful, the Saturn wasn't ready for the US market were 3d was emphasized. The disagreements and differences between the two markets coupled with poor third party developer acquisition, doomed the Saturn. Sega figured it didn't need third party, and it almost didn't. Had Sega nabbed up third party developers not out of necessity rather to deny Song the awesome talent rising in third party developers, history would be much different today. just poor poor decisions by Sega. So much talent but poor direction for it to go.
Nah, Saga failed cuz of marketing, brand name, and games\developers, not really the hardwares themselves. The only thing that would had really changed thingsvis if they had teamed up with Sony and gotten Sony's line-up of games.
Voodoo 2 would have been powerful enough looking at the PC card's stats. 3 million fully feature triangles which would have matched the NEC chip. It might even run better on the Dreamcast since there is less overhead than a PC.
i only knew a few scant details about the Sega black belt when i heard about it in the 90's, that it was going to be 64bit and cartridge based
Nice! Learned Alot!
Wish we got the PlayStation Saturn
Gotta say, was a teenager in mid to late 90s and followed gaming news as much as I could and I don’t recall hearing about this black belt at all. I recall I wanted a Saturn in the worst way. By the time I turned 16 and got my first job and could buy a new system the only real choice was PlayStation. Saturn was dead and gone (this was summer 98) and I had no interest in the Nintendo 64. None of my friends even had a N64. I don’t think I played Goldeneye until around 2000 or so at my girlfriends house.
I would of liked to see what a Sega console with a 3DFX chip could do...
imagine the dreamcast with 2 voodoo 2 in sli.......
Selling for $799 in 1999. So basically equivalent to about $1200 nowadays. Yeah, thanks but no thanks.
It would have had to be a custom chip built for Sega...not a Voodoo 3
Oh gooooooooood. Waaaaay too much inner politics in SEGA. X_X
Sega was like Germany with jets in the 45.
Pulling out crazy desings like crazy but at the end only some of them were built and weren't that great
sad to see this channel/format go downhill...
How did newcomers Sony get it so right where Sega and Nintendo got it so wrong?
Well SEGA and Nintendo were at the time selling their consoles at a profit. Nintendo in fact still sells their hardware at a profit in fact. Sony decided to sell their hardware at a loss, making profits off the back of licensing games.
Sega and Nintendo were used to, and stuck with, old schemes, traditional ways of thinking. There was a "it's always worked like this so let's keep doing it that way" mentality going on. Sony was, as you said, a newcomer, so it had no legacy. It came with fresh, new ideas. Which turned out to be efficient.
Also Sony was really really reaaaaaaaaaaaaally good at marketing.
@@Liam3072 Nope. Sony had DEEP Pockets of Money. Cash. They used Corporate muscle and attempted to Monopolize the Gaming Market.
Djeezus how many cancelled consoles does Sega have?
The story of the death of SEGA (from a hardware side) is nothing short of fantastic. It should be noted that if you have a game company, do NOT do what SEGA did... or what EA is/has been doing.
Shoutout to the Bomberman 64 track @11:34
wrong, black belt was the saturn successor proposed by sega of america, white belt was the jsega of apan proposed machine, they were developed in parallel but only one was meant to be released...
The Dreamcast is okay, but sadly, the Dreamcast is region-locked, meaning that there is no Action Replay Plus device to break the region encoding. The Sega Saturn is the superior Sega console for using the Action Replay Plus.
Code breaker
Not only could you break the region locking with the Action Replay on the Dreamcast, but you could get it to play pirated games with said Action Replay. Which is why SEGA had it swatted off the market as quickly as possible. Although, by that point the damage was already done. SEGA couldn't make workable licenses with third party developers after that, due to the fear of the rampant piracy. Which is actually one of the things that killed the Dreamcast.
being a fanboy is ok, but you're just blabbing nonsense.
Dreamcast is probably the easiest console ever made to get around region locking.
I as well think the Sega Saturn is better than the overrated dreamcast.
I know the blackbelt dev team and EA thought it was japanese favoritism why the katana hardware was chosen for the Dreamcast but it's actually better and more forward looking hardware than the Blackbelt.
Surprised it wasn't "Asteroid Belt".
If it had of been Sega Playstation Sega would still be in the console market today.
If Sega of America had of had the main say Sega would still be around.
Wrong, Sega is an Asian rooted company with a stronger European holding than in America.
Other than the Genesis, America has always been Sega's worst market.
It was also Sega of America that wanted Sega to transition to a third party role in the home market (Sega are still 1st party in Arcades) if it meant that Sega would work with global appliance competitor Sony, even Kalimske wanted it at one point.
Charles Bellfield and Peter Moore were the ones who wanted to convince Sega Japan main HQ to suspend home hardware line and let American company Microsoft eventually take its place in America as a main hardware player, even though they failed to do the same in Japan.
Charles Bellfield and Peter Moore presented that 'Manifesto for the future' document to present to Sega in Japan, which angered many Sega executives who walked out the room in disgust.
"Wrong, Sega is an Asian rooted company with a stronger European holding than in America.
Other than the Genesis, America has always been Sega's worst market."
First wrong, Sega was co-founded by an American EX-Pat living in Japan, David Rosen . And second are you serious? The only Sega console that was successful in the EU that failed in North America was the Master System. The 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast all bombed in the EU just like they did in NA.
"It was also Sega of America that wanted Sega to transition to a third party role in the home market (Sega are still 1st party in Arcades) if it meant that Sega would work with global appliance competitor Sony, even Kalimske wanted it at one point."
Considering how Sony proceeded to drive Sega out of the hardware business with both the PS1 and PS2 even managing to knock Nintendo down to distant second and steal most of their best third party developers I'd say Kalinske was on to something.
"Charles Bellfield and Peter Moore were the ones who wanted to convince Sega Japan main HQ to suspend home hardware line and let American company Microsoft eventually take its place in America as a main hardware player, even though they failed to do the same in Japan.
Charles Bellfield and Peter Moore presented that 'Manifesto for the future' document to present to Sega in Japan, which angered many Sega executives who walked out the room in disgust."
You're leaving out the reason why they wanted that was because Sega had become utterly irrelevant in the gaming world at that point even in their home country of Japan where the PS2 was utterly curbstomping them into the ground and they were nearly bankrupt due to all the money they'd sank into failures like the 32X and Saturn.
Moore has even said he flat out told the Japanese execs that Sega was going to go out of business if they didn't exit the hardware business when the Dreamcast failed and that a large part of why he left Sega was the Japanese side's bull headed stubbornness and refusal to listen to what the American branch was telling them.
According to Sega of America. Yeah, I wouldn't expect a different claim.
I do believe that the power VR was stronger but they should have been targeting the original GeForce and DVD for the next consul plus them dropping support on the Saturn probably hurt the Dreamcast more than anything else I do remember reading these articles the black belt had half as much ram well kind of 8 MB main system ram 8 MB vram.
What's the TV show in the background around the 1 minute mark? I recognise it, but I don't think it's Bad Influence?
It is a 32X infommercial.
@@TopHatGamingManChannelSo it is! Have since found it! Thank you!
Love your videos sent patrion 💰 there was no issue with Saturn other than programmers having trouble with quads ... And Sega who wanted devs secret for am2 greater looking games
A lot of what is reported as facts here is a bunch of rumors and biased recollections from angry ex-members of Sega. Of course you have the feeling it was SoA having the great ideas and SoJ kept shooting Sega in the foot: the only source you have are ex-members of SoA since 1) they speak english, the japanese don't, 2) Japanese are much more secretive and less likely to talk their heart out. But don't take one version for granted. Once you start reading further into all these old stories, you realize each person interviewed gives a different story, each story contradicts all the other ones and sometimes even themselves, with timelines that just aren't plausible, and things are usually much more complicated than they look like.
Among other things, the 32X as we know it is an american idea, and so is the idea that the US Saturn should receive little to no 2D games because the public was only interested in 3D.
Agree, I commented before reading your post, with almost the same points.
List of music used?
the black belt sounds like an xbox with its 3dfx gfx cards
Wasn't it SoA that made the 32x?
SoA and SoJ wouldn't listen to each other and neither would listen SoE which could've saved them from the nonsense both sides were putting out.
After SOJ wanted to release it as a new console instead.
So the irony is that some japanese suits that started sega, also ignorantly ended it. Sonic made sega famous. It was their Super mario. They did not even make a sonic racing game.
The black belt sounds intruiging, but too many console wars going on.
Yikes, the relationship between Sega of Japan and Sega of America was like cats and dogs. (Kinda)
Oh Sega, what could have been if you could have gotten your global shit together.
Anyone have the specs of the Sega Blackbelt??? I knew it was supposed to use an IBM powerpc 603 and it should have had a little bit higher clock rate than the Dreamcast's 200mhz sh-4
Saturn did "okayish" in Japan? It outsold the N64 and had a higher attach rate than the PS1. It was in a comfortable second, much in the same way 360 was for most of last generation in the US.
Look at it from SOJ's perspective. Here you have a product that essentially prints money for you in your home market, and now your subordinate international branch is telling you to abandon it?
Ultimately, they ended up making the right call with the Dreamcast as well, as PowerVR were far ahead of 3Dfx at that time. I don't buy this narrative that had SOA been in charge, things would have gone differently, because this is the same SOA that prevented many of the Saturn's best titles from being localized due to them being 2D.
If SOA had been in charge the Saturn Day debacle which killed Sega's retail and Dev support in the West would have never happened and the 32X/Neptune would have been Sega's 5th Gen hardware as SOA were hugely in favor of still supporting the Genesis. And do you remember who hired Stolar after Sony had fired him for doing that on the PS1 and gave him free reign over the American division? Sega of Japan.
@@AxeCrazyAutobot I'm not absolving SOJ of any responsibility. What I am saying is that SOA was hardly any better. You said it yourself: they wanted to keep supporting the Genesis well into the 32 bit era. If they had their way, the Saturn may have never been released in the US. Do you think there would have even been a Dreamcast if that happened?
Both of them were too shortsighted, but SOJ made the final call on hardware, so obviously they were going to get their way. Ultimately, it was a matter of two different visions clashing with each other, neither one necessarily better than the other in the long run.
Nintendo kept supporting the SNES until 1999,Sony kept supporting the PS1 till 2004,PS2 lasted until 2012 and the PS3 only ended WW production last year. The reason for that is simple; Not everyone is willing to jump headfirst into the next gen due to cost. So it's generally a good idea to keep your old hardware around for a while as a cheap alternative.
The Genesis was still selling well in America when SOJ made the boneheaded decision to kill it worldwide to focus exclusively on the Saturn, because fuck everywhere that isn't Japan right?
I'd rather have Sega still around as a hardware maker then the Dreamcast. Who knows if Sega went with Neptune CDs might not have taken off until the sixth gen since other then the PS1 every CD console in the fifth gen failed hard. And as much as I love my Playstation they largely benefited from Sega and Nintendo's screw ups in the fifth gen be it pissing off retailers,consumers and developers with awful PR stunts that backfired horribly(Sega) or being draconian controlling assholes(Nintendo).
@@AxeCrazyAutobot The Genesis was supported well into the 90's as well in the form of the Genesis 3.
If you think Sega would have continued to make hardware in the face of competition as fierce as the seventh generation, I have to doubt your business acumen. The moment the PS2 was announced it became clear that everything else was in a race for second place. Had the Dreamcast never come out, I doubt Sega would have made another platform and even if they did, it too would have probably been their last.
I'm not sure I understand you... you think it would have been a better idea for Sega's 32-bits console in the west to be the 32X? Do you realize how underpowered this console is compared to the Playstation and N64? The 32X is barely able to display a bunch of textured polygons while keeping a decent framerate. Virtua Fighter is about as far as it can go. How do you think it would have fared against the Playstation?
Yeah, SoJ should have waited 2 or 3 more months to launch the Saturn in Japan so as to have a more polished launch, but overall, it wouldn't have made a significant difference. What doomed the Saturn overall is not its botched launch, but a lack of support from 3rd parties due to how difficult it was to program, how overengineered it was, and how quirky the hardware was, when Sony came with a simple and elegant design that was easy to develop on.
man, i feel old. I remember the voodoo pc graphics cards from back in the beginning of my custom computer building life....
then I noticed on the box it said its an AGP interface port and had a good laugh. made me think of how awful computers were then, but in the same sense how amazing they were at the time heh. let me break out my amazing pentium 4 agp motherboard to load up some duke nukem played with a friend over dial up.... whos down?
Wow sega PlayStation could have happened never knew.
I just hit the 1000 like
I'm chuffed
ever pop a pimple that splattered on the mirror?
Then what was the "Katana"?🤔
The blackbelt became the dreamcast so who cares, and eventrough the deal between sony & sega failed but it atleast reached the point that sony was also responsible for producing atleast 1 chip for the sega saturn, if you open up early models of the sega saturn you can atleast find 1 sony chip inside.
The Blackbelt did not become the Dreamcast. The Blackbelt started as the 'Eclipse' which was originally going to be a Saturn add on. It was the Dural which became the Katana which was what became the Dreamcast, and a good thing that it did in hindsight because otherwise if it was left to the American subsidiary it could've potentially been yet another disaster in a long line of disasters, like what the SGI deal almost became.
People in America conveniently forget Sega's true roots and heritage and their standing as the best arcade hardware manufacturer. SEGA's home console hardware is actually just downgraded variations of the original Sega arcade consoles they are architecturally based on, but the SGI architecture had nothing to do with that and had no relation to Sega's hardware architecture in arcades, which would have jeapordised one of Sega's home core marketing strengths, namely the architectural relation between Sega arcade consoles and Sega home consoles which enables cheaper, easier and faster cross over solutions for developers and offers Sega consumers a steady stream of near arcade perfect conversions in their homes.
Yet Sega's over-reliance on the Arcades is part of what killed them when the Arcade scene died in the West at the tail end of the 90s. Wheras Sony was smart enough to have games specifically made for the Playstation and avoided the fall out.
The SGI deal was a disaster? In what universe? The N64 sat comfortably in 2nd place in both the NA and EU markets wheras the Saturn failed in every market outside Japan.
And what long line of disasters? The Genesis which SOA were almost solely responsible for making successful given how the system bombed in Japan like the Master System before it? The 32X which was screwed over by the Saturn releasing in Japan the same year as it? The only disaster that SOA had under their belt was the Sega CD which also bombed in Japan.
music credits plz....you didn't compose all of this nor buy rights.....
Learn to spell before you attempt to leave a comment anywhere.
@@TopHatGamingManChannel wooosh ! English isn't my mother tongue... But Instead of flamming your viewers...👏🏾 you could have just fix your mistakes and update the video with music credits...
@@MiniKodjo If a company doesn't want a creator to use their music, the algorithm automatically recognises the tune and re-directs the ad revenue to the copyright holder. I do not use music in videos I cannot monetise. It would be a waste of my time.
@@TopHatGamingManChannelhmm the man has money to make...! you still have time to waste on arguing with trolls tho :/... anyway...now you know music credits are greatly appreciated by those making this monetization possible 👌🏻😜 ( and btw it's not just about money, it is normal to cite sources and give credit...)
Sega's management was totally idiotic.
No they weren't.
What is the game called at 1:16?
What is this awesome music you have in your videos ?
A mix of Nights into Dreams, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Virtua Fighter, Saturn Bomberman and Bomberman Hero.
The song at the very end, specifically... can you specify the track name for us?
sumbodyshero last song is a sonic song, not sure which game but def sonic