i'm new to nemesis and was planning on picking up just lockdown during this campaign, but you guys have me tempted to get the new installment instead. This is looking pretty sweet! Thanks so much and have a great day!
You're in an interesting position. I don't think I'd tell anyone which is best for them without really knowing what they like in gaming, but for me personally, I think this would be the version of Nemesis I'd want to pick if I were just picking one. Thanks for watching.
@@jamesdurney1889 Actually, I already paid for most of my pledge for Retaliation, but I am currently really thinking about picking up base Nemesis (with Voidseeders and Aftermath included) in the PM for 130 as well. It just seems like a good deal, plus I want to play the original game too! Thanks for the advice!
I'd love a Nemisis Update with some updated mechanics. Just from the flavor nothing tops the first game. But the mechanics have become more refined over the years, which makes it hard for me to decide which one to get
I need to go back and get a couple more plays in with Lockdown, but I really enjoyed my play of this one. The gameplay changes are welcome ones, and I think it's easier to find more satisfying turns in this one (although still very punishing).😅
Despite some of the interesting changes, I can't get over the fact that it's much more appealing to me to play the working crew discovering that they aren't alone on their malfunctioning ship of the first game. It does make an encounter with the queen or pretty much any alien terrifying. The interplay of the objectives with making sure you somehow get to earth makes for great emergent storytelling. While I love space marines, I think the game loses something because of that change of perspective.
That's fair. It's kind of like those who prefer the first Alien movie to the second (of which I am one). But with the game system changes, I found myself enjoying this theme just as much...maybe more.
Well but having thematically different options is better for a sequel. Now you have 3 games with different stories that you can pick from. Personally I don't think the game lost anything, its just a shift. The space marines going in to fight a far stronger enemy than the Intruders/Nightstalkers. Even if you know aliens exist you open a door and a HORDE is in the shadows is pretty much as terrifying imo.
Hello, Great video and you got me hyped with retaliation!! One question tho, you spoke about streamlining experience, does it mean that there as less chances that one players die quite early in the game due to just "bad luck" and/or poor choice/rookie mistakes and watch others play for hours? this has always been a downside for me with Nemesis as that has killed the motivation to play again for a few friends of mine...
We haven't played it enough to know the consistent impact of some of the design changes, but I do think that it's less likely to get killed almost immediately. The queen CANNOT come out early, as it is not in the bag at first. There is a trigger that will add it to the bag, which is to help minimize that insta-death issue that could arise in the original game. The streamlined elements fall more into the category of quality of life improvements (in our opinion anyway). It also often feels more rewarding to play, as you're able to eliminate more and more intruders with satisfying bursts into a corridor for example. The way the objective decision works too, is an actual decision that lets a player feel like they're beings smart, or risky, or prudent (whatever the case may be). I'll be interested to see how players respond to this one, but I think that it will be my preferred version of the game. I would also recommend considering playing it, or the originals, in pure co-op mode if you don't like the feeling of the cut-throat elimination, etc. That's how I typically play it.
Got you! Definitely the the feeling not to be totally defenseless when encountering adults intruder (or worse creature) would provide a more "in control" feeling especially with the load out customization of the tactical belt, ammo rules and type of fire modes. That is the million dollar question. Retaliation seems to offer more flexibility to prepare players/react to the unknown and randomness of the game. But to me, Nemesis is an immersive experience where the game play is designed around that peculiar atmosphere. I mean the thematic is central to get a great experience and put game mechanism in context (yes I am the kind of player who like flavor texts! lol ). The cut throat aspect/helplessness feeling doesn't bother me as it make sense in that specific universe. But I know some players who hate having too much randomness in a game, not being able to plan a strat in advance, heavily luck based game, or mechanics oriented where the theme/immersive experience is secondary. I am confident that playing in pure co-op and the streamline elements you mention in your video would help accomodating players taste around the table and Nemesis. One thought we had last time we played Nemesis and a friend got killed after first turn was to create a "Bishop" mode. Basically The killed player taking another character playing as an android (the objective is to bring back the ship to hearth and survival of the crew, not affected by infection, superficial wounds or condition of heavy wounds)...
Hi, which nemesis would be the least complex? Am new to the series and having the easiest to learn and explain would mean it gets to the table more in my group. Thanks
I actually find that they're all pretty close in complexity, but we feel that this one has been streamlined a bit, and has some quality of life improvements as well. While the added step of flipping a card and adding the rooms and corridors as you go might sound more complicated, I actually find that it's easy to follow, and kind of helps players digest what's going on. Plus the removal of the rotating of rooms as you search reduces some of the fiddliness. Some may disagree, but I think this one is the one to go with.
Awesome, thank you for replying. The impression I also get is one person is less likely to die and sit out if following the same route and working towards main objective. Have decided to go collectors edition 👍
I could see that comparison but I think there is still a lot that keeps it apart. There is still a huge survival element here and you feel like you’re racing a clock which isn’t something I often get in dungeon crawlers (Ryan)
Stalker is a much more narrative experience, and feels more like a tactical skirmish. Retaliation is more of a game you play one session at a time (not a campaign).
Haven't played Invader, but the Nemesis gameplay in general feels quite a bit different from any of the Zombicides. Nemesis has always felt more narrative in its theme, even though there isn't really any "story" other than the one in your head. And this feels far less like a dice chucker, even though you are in fact rolling dice for combat more in this one than past Nemesis games.
Can you speak into crafting systems? I found the crafting element of Nemesis was very rarely a decent use of a turn and it ended up putting me off the game. Is crafting still a part of Retaliation?
This dice system still embodies some of that randomness in terms of how much health is left, but it somehow doesn't feel as random (ironically). The ammo system in this one is a lot better feeling in my opinion. Ultimately quite similar, but in a different way. And again, it "feels" better even though it ultimately possesses similar balance with the amount of enemies.
@meeple I'm fine with the roll-to-hit and 2 to 6 wounds to kill. I grew to hate how hard it was to find ammo. It is random to find it, except for one room. That one room might not be anywhere near where you need to be and is only one full charge. That is the other thing. The same charge that fills the six-shot solider weapon and the 5 shot scout weapon, also only fills the pair of two-shot shotguns and the almost useless three-shot scientist pistol. The charges feel wasted on the last three due to the roll-to-hit. I have wondered if the interrupt and/or the rest cards could have a two card cost to reload a weapon. The Captain has a weapon that cannot use the energy charges and a card dedicated to reloading. So someone is carrying extra ammo with them.
This was very helpful. I have the original and am not big on Lockdown. This looked tempting, but it has to end up being better than the original, cause I don't have room for both... I'm leaning hard toward backing. I wish they would just post the rulebook.... Or did they and I missed it?
I have the same problem. I wasn't keen to Lockdown, because I liked he OG theme / characters lot more and in the end, it also felt "more the same". Retaliation feels quite fresh take on it and some of the changes sounds excellent. I'm just afraid it will be too much of a dungeon crawler and less about the dread, surviving and paranoia towards your teammates which made OG game so good. I don't have room for two Nemesis in my collection either... of course, I could back this, play it and then decide which one to sell.
@@jahockaday Just my opinion. It seems that most who like Nemesis seem to prefer Lockdown. Cause there's more... everything. I personally don't think Nemesis needed more stuff. I think there's already enough going on. Lockdown basically just gives you more ways to screw up, more needles to thread. And Nemesis is already brutal enough.
The final rulebook is still being laid out. We had a rules document, but it wasn't all pretty looking yet. I imagine there's some gameplay videos already out there, but maybe we'll consider doing one too. Maybe that will help demonstrate what the game does differently.
Based on my single play of this one, I would say less "dread" and more "overwhelmed"--that's the way I'd describe how the characters would be feeling anyway.
What's kept you from getting Lockdown to the table? I do think the changes here are more significant than those in Lockdown, but do you still play the OG Nemesis?
@@meeple I don’t own OG nemesis. Lockdown was the first I purchased. Well dad life first and foremost lol but also I only meet once or twice a week to play and I’m also busy doing reviews and content for other games but lockdown is high on my list to get off my shelf of shame.
I like the original and Lockdown, but I think I might agree with you. I think I might like them even more if I could incorporate some form of this combat system into them. They obviously don't have the groups of intruders in corridors, but I think I like the way some of streamlined elements in this one enough to try to implement them in prior games.
Hmm. That's a reasonable question. I suppose the same could be said about a number of board game sequels or spiritual successors. This one is different enough, and some might say it just builds on those before it. But as I've said, if I HAD to pick just one, for me, it would be this one I think.
Well, if you got one and love it… stay with it. It’s already paid and it is not really that much difference… if you dont have any… pick any which appeals best for you😎 i would recommend the 2nd installment, but this is a personal preference 😎
@meeple I get that. I think what I want to know in terms of differences between this and say lockdown. Lockdown let me use all my old stuff and just gave me an option for a different map and the darkness. I didn't mind that because while it was stand alone everything was compatible This keeps getting touted as a dungeon crawl buy other than how the map is laid out it looks exactly like nemesis. I was just hoping there were more differences in gameplay to warrant a puchase but im just not seeing it from their campaign page and what you guys were able to show.
I agree with what another person commented. The game doesn’t feel like retaliation. Achieve the mission objective & run with your tail between your legs
I suppose that's fair on one hand, but if you've ever watched the movie Aliens, those space marines are going in aggressively, only to ultimately just try to survive. I take the name of the game to be thematically associated with the spirit of the characters initially, although that might shift once they encounter things. 👽
Do you think this version of the game will suffer from the same problem as the others where someone can get knocked out in 20-30 mins in a two hour game?
I really like that they added intruder development help sheet!
i'm new to nemesis and was planning on picking up just lockdown during this campaign, but you guys have me tempted to get the new installment instead. This is looking pretty sweet! Thanks so much and have a great day!
You're in an interesting position. I don't think I'd tell anyone which is best for them without really knowing what they like in gaming, but for me personally, I think this would be the version of Nemesis I'd want to pick if I were just picking one. Thanks for watching.
You might want to go with the orginial game and work toward Lockdown
@@jamesdurney1889 Actually, I already paid for most of my pledge for Retaliation, but I am currently really thinking about picking up base Nemesis (with Voidseeders and Aftermath included) in the PM for 130 as well. It just seems like a good deal, plus I want to play the original game too! Thanks for the advice!
I'd love a Nemisis Update with some updated mechanics. Just from the flavor nothing tops the first game. But the mechanics have become more refined over the years, which makes it hard for me to decide which one to get
Lockdown baby
Game over man, game over
Ha!
We finally have a team of ultimate badasses!
@@derekgarcia3069 You mean me and Ryan right? Let's just assume that's what you mean.😅
@@meeple well you two are fantastic so let's go with yes! 😁
I own Nemesis lockdown already, but I‘m now totally hooked for this one as well. :-)
I need to go back and get a couple more plays in with Lockdown, but I really enjoyed my play of this one. The gameplay changes are welcome ones, and I think it's easier to find more satisfying turns in this one (although still very punishing).😅
Despite some of the interesting changes, I can't get over the fact that it's much more appealing to me to play the working crew discovering that they aren't alone on their malfunctioning ship of the first game. It does make an encounter with the queen or pretty much any alien terrifying. The interplay of the objectives with making sure you somehow get to earth makes for great emergent storytelling.
While I love space marines, I think the game loses something because of that change of perspective.
That's fair. It's kind of like those who prefer the first Alien movie to the second (of which I am one). But with the game system changes, I found myself enjoying this theme just as much...maybe more.
Well but having thematically different options is better for a sequel. Now you have 3 games with different stories that you can pick from.
Personally I don't think the game lost anything, its just a shift. The space marines going in to fight a far stronger enemy than the Intruders/Nightstalkers. Even if you know aliens exist you open a door and a HORDE is in the shadows is pretty much as terrifying imo.
This is the Aliens to Nemisis's Alien.
Excellent idea for a video. I always like a comparison video that explains what is and isn't the same.
Thanks for watching. As the third in the series, we figured that's what many would be wondering.
Hyped!!
Seems like a lot of people are hyped. The campaign is off to a killer start.
I'm so excited for this one! Aliens is my favorite movie of all time and I'm hoping Retaliation is better than any of the other IP games have been.
Hello, Great video and you got me hyped with retaliation!!
One question tho, you spoke about streamlining experience, does it mean that there as less chances that one players die quite early in the game due to just "bad luck" and/or poor choice/rookie mistakes and watch others play for hours? this has always been a downside for me with Nemesis as that has killed the motivation to play again for a few friends of mine...
We haven't played it enough to know the consistent impact of some of the design changes, but I do think that it's less likely to get killed almost immediately. The queen CANNOT come out early, as it is not in the bag at first. There is a trigger that will add it to the bag, which is to help minimize that insta-death issue that could arise in the original game.
The streamlined elements fall more into the category of quality of life improvements (in our opinion anyway). It also often feels more rewarding to play, as you're able to eliminate more and more intruders with satisfying bursts into a corridor for example. The way the objective decision works too, is an actual decision that lets a player feel like they're beings smart, or risky, or prudent (whatever the case may be).
I'll be interested to see how players respond to this one, but I think that it will be my preferred version of the game. I would also recommend considering playing it, or the originals, in pure co-op mode if you don't like the feeling of the cut-throat elimination, etc. That's how I typically play it.
Got you! Definitely the the feeling not to be totally defenseless when encountering adults intruder (or worse creature) would provide a more "in control" feeling especially with the load out customization of the tactical belt, ammo rules and type of fire modes.
That is the million dollar question. Retaliation seems to offer more flexibility to prepare players/react to the unknown and randomness of the game. But to me, Nemesis is an immersive experience where the game play is designed around that peculiar atmosphere. I mean the thematic is central to get a great experience and put game mechanism in context (yes I am the kind of player who like flavor texts! lol ). The cut throat aspect/helplessness feeling doesn't bother me as it make sense in that specific universe. But I know some players who hate having too much randomness in a game, not being able to plan a strat in advance, heavily luck based game, or mechanics oriented where the theme/immersive experience is secondary. I am confident that playing in pure co-op and the streamline elements you mention in your video would help accomodating players taste around the table and Nemesis.
One thought we had last time we played Nemesis and a friend got killed after first turn was to create a "Bishop" mode. Basically The killed player taking another character playing as an android (the objective is to bring back the ship to hearth and survival of the crew, not affected by infection, superficial wounds or condition of heavy wounds)...
Bishop mode sounds cool. Player elimination is never terribly fun.
Will the characters from pervious titles work on this new game and vice versa?
Hi, which nemesis would be the least complex? Am new to the series and having the easiest to learn and explain would mean it gets to the table more in my group. Thanks
From what I've heard and seen, I'd say the first game (which I own) is least complex.
I actually find that they're all pretty close in complexity, but we feel that this one has been streamlined a bit, and has some quality of life improvements as well. While the added step of flipping a card and adding the rooms and corridors as you go might sound more complicated, I actually find that it's easy to follow, and kind of helps players digest what's going on. Plus the removal of the rotating of rooms as you search reduces some of the fiddliness. Some may disagree, but I think this one is the one to go with.
Awesome, thank you for replying. The impression I also get is one person is less likely to die and sit out if following the same route and working towards main objective. Have decided to go collectors edition 👍
Yes, sticking together can be vital...until you have to split up in order to accomplish objectives. 😅
Does retaliation feel like a dungeon crawl? If so, how high up does it rank?
I could see that comparison but I think there is still a lot that keeps it apart. There is still a huge survival element here and you feel like you’re racing a clock which isn’t something I often get in dungeon crawlers (Ryan)
How does this compare with Stalker? Would you recommend one over the other?
Stalker is a much more narrative experience, and feels more like a tactical skirmish. Retaliation is more of a game you play one session at a time (not a campaign).
Hi! How do you compare this with Zombicide Invader? Thank you
There are gameplay video up . Watch those have a better idea .
Haven't played Invader, but the Nemesis gameplay in general feels quite a bit different from any of the Zombicides. Nemesis has always felt more narrative in its theme, even though there isn't really any "story" other than the one in your head. And this feels far less like a dice chucker, even though you are in fact rolling dice for combat more in this one than past Nemesis games.
can you use characters from the other boxes in this one?
Yes - they’ve offered that as an option for some. Check the campaign.
As @AlBundy4td said, that is indeed the case. My guess is that they'll bridge this with the previous games as much as possible.
Riiiipleeeey! We are baaaaacking!!! 😁
Ha!
Can you speak into crafting systems? I found the crafting element of Nemesis was very rarely a decent use of a turn and it ended up putting me off the game. Is crafting still a part of Retaliation?
There is no crafting! We probably should have mentioned that
I hated the ammo system in the two previous games. It was too much with the random to-hit, semi-random health, and having to scavenge for ammo.
This dice system still embodies some of that randomness in terms of how much health is left, but it somehow doesn't feel as random (ironically). The ammo system in this one is a lot better feeling in my opinion. Ultimately quite similar, but in a different way. And again, it "feels" better even though it ultimately possesses similar balance with the amount of enemies.
@meeple I'm fine with the roll-to-hit and 2 to 6 wounds to kill. I grew to hate how hard it was to find ammo. It is random to find it, except for one room. That one room might not be anywhere near where you need to be and is only one full charge. That is the other thing. The same charge that fills the six-shot solider weapon and the 5 shot scout weapon, also only fills the pair of two-shot shotguns and the almost useless three-shot scientist pistol. The charges feel wasted on the last three due to the roll-to-hit.
I have wondered if the interrupt and/or the rest cards could have a two card cost to reload a weapon. The Captain has a weapon that cannot use the energy charges and a card dedicated to reloading. So someone is carrying extra ammo with them.
This was very helpful. I have the original and am not big on Lockdown. This looked tempting, but it has to end up being better than the original, cause I don't have room for both... I'm leaning hard toward backing. I wish they would just post the rulebook.... Or did they and I missed it?
What didn’t you like about Lockdown? I was looking at picking it up with Retaliation.
I have the same problem. I wasn't keen to Lockdown, because I liked he OG theme / characters lot more and in the end, it also felt "more the same". Retaliation feels quite fresh take on it and some of the changes sounds excellent. I'm just afraid it will be too much of a dungeon crawler and less about the dread, surviving and paranoia towards your teammates which made OG game so good. I don't have room for two Nemesis in my collection either... of course, I could back this, play it and then decide which one to sell.
@@jahockaday Just my opinion. It seems that most who like Nemesis seem to prefer Lockdown. Cause there's more... everything. I personally don't think Nemesis needed more stuff. I think there's already enough going on. Lockdown basically just gives you more ways to screw up, more needles to thread. And Nemesis is already brutal enough.
The final rulebook is still being laid out. We had a rules document, but it wasn't all pretty looking yet. I imagine there's some gameplay videos already out there, but maybe we'll consider doing one too. Maybe that will help demonstrate what the game does differently.
Based on my single play of this one, I would say less "dread" and more "overwhelmed"--that's the way I'd describe how the characters would be feeling anyway.
I own lockdown and have yet to play. Debating whether to back this one and own both or sell lockdown
What's kept you from getting Lockdown to the table? I do think the changes here are more significant than those in Lockdown, but do you still play the OG Nemesis?
@@meeple I don’t own OG nemesis. Lockdown was the first I purchased. Well dad life first and foremost lol but also I only meet once or twice a week to play and I’m also busy doing reviews and content for other games but lockdown is high on my list to get off my shelf of shame.
I was out on this but damnit...now I'm in. Thanks. 🙄 lol
You have the first two games already?
It doesn't state to remove ammo for burst fire which is probably just cause they wrote it wrong
Cool video, thanks.
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching,
I hope they streamline og nemesis
I like the original and Lockdown, but I think I might agree with you. I think I might like them even more if I could incorporate some form of this combat system into them. They obviously don't have the groups of intruders in corridors, but I think I like the way some of streamlined elements in this one enough to try to implement them in prior games.
My biggest concern is that this just replaces what I have already. Would you ever go back to the other games?
Hmm. That's a reasonable question. I suppose the same could be said about a number of board game sequels or spiritual successors. This one is different enough, and some might say it just builds on those before it. But as I've said, if I HAD to pick just one, for me, it would be this one I think.
Well, if you got one and love it… stay with it. It’s already paid and it is not really that much difference… if you dont have any… pick any which appeals best for you😎 i would recommend the 2nd installment, but this is a personal preference 😎
I doubt it as this 3rd installation feels more a standalone dungeon crawl. In that space I don't feel retaliation fair very well
@meeple I get that. I think what I want to know in terms of differences between this and say lockdown. Lockdown let me use all my old stuff and just gave me an option for a different map and the darkness. I didn't mind that because while it was stand alone everything was compatible This keeps getting touted as a dungeon crawl buy other than how the map is laid out it looks exactly like nemesis. I was just hoping there were more differences in gameplay to warrant a puchase but im just not seeing it from their campaign page and what you guys were able to show.
Looks interesting, but not backing it. I dislike the tiles being cardboard and the way they connect.
Curious, what about the tile connections turns you off?
@@meeple it will wear down easily. I just don't like m. If the material is cardboard, it will wear down easily.
I agree with what another person commented. The game doesn’t feel like retaliation. Achieve the mission objective & run with your tail between your legs
I suppose that's fair on one hand, but if you've ever watched the movie Aliens, those space marines are going in aggressively, only to ultimately just try to survive. I take the name of the game to be thematically associated with the spirit of the characters initially, although that might shift once they encounter things. 👽
As a solo gamer, interested in Retaliation just for the minis in core box and stretch goals!
Do you think this version of the game will suffer from the same problem as the others where someone can get knocked out in 20-30 mins in a two hour game?
I'm guessing you guys are backing?
Full transparency, we're often fortunate enough to get review copies eventually, so we'll probably end up having it.
Looks super awesome, just really bothers me they call them clips and not magazines lol😂😂
Game looks boring and liner .. wash rinse and repeat . Thanks for the sales pitch.
Maybe not for you then. What's your go-to game that hits the table?