the pix in pix is in the way, this time. also is distance of separation measured in knots??? a surface high speed train to the center of cities would probably be cheaper than a tunnel to airports. and why we have yet to learn who flew the helos??????????/
Incredibly brilliant ideas! The only problem I see are billionaires who would rather selfishly pocket tax dollars vs putting the dollars into practical solutions such as updating outdated systems and facilities that would truly make America 🇺🇸 Great for once! 💔
let them build it! probably cheaper and better nad faster. us glorify western capitalism and democratic values. BUT change the rules mid game... ie. Ussr, trade treaties with canada, mexico, china. and products, steel, oil, gas, AI etc etc
Agreed. The Helo running VFR at night had the responsibility. The ATC being overworked may have an impact. I am not aware of ATC notifying the AA flight of cross traffic for awareness. I would think such a "courtesy" notification would be standard.
Saw your comment and was about to point this out. The Black Hawk pilot took responsibility for separation and *was* responsible for separation, not the AE pilot. Moreover, it looks like the BH hit the plane on the side just aft of center, so again, helicopter hit plane not plane hit helicopter.
With many years in the military, this is how I understand this issue: There should be NO other aircraft ever, for any reason, having an "authorized" transiting route that crosses a commercial, stabilized landing corridor / pattern. PERIOD! Kind Regards, FMR Intelligence Officer
Appreciate your experience as an intel officer, however that doesn’t mean you have any qualifications or training that would allow you special insight into this mishap. As a retired military helicopter pilot and an evaluator for many, many aircraft commander checkrides, depending on location, I would have the other pilot transition through class B airspace as it would be a required skill and the process can be complicated.
The helicopter was following an approved helicopter route that at the time of impact would have had them closer to the east bank of the Potomac, and at 200 ft or less. This would have been fine, but it looks like they may have drifted away from the east bank, and were at 300+ ft, if the radar I've seen is to be believed.
USMC Marine Aviator, here is what I see so far CRJ had clearance was on short final exactly as announced and planned. They were just short of the runway on correct glide slope in full compliance with ATC and flight rules. The Blackhawk was: 1. Above approved and regulated ceiling for that airspace by at least 100 feet. Not where they were supposed to be 2. ATC challenged them twice about the CRJ, Blackhawk stated they saw CRJ and were aware of it, they request visual flight separation (authorization to visually control their our separation from other aircraft). ATC allowed them visual flight separation control as they requested. 3. They had no ADS-B, TCAS or ACAS X collision avoidance equipment active (makes them stealthy and not responsive to collision avoidance systems) 4. They were using a call sign that suggested they had a VIP aboard, they did not. 5. They were using NVG's which complicated the entire situation, they narrow your vision and cause all kinds of light sensitivity and problems with depth perception. 6. They were supposedly doing training and check flight for the pilots in one of the busiest airports in the nation with crazy noise abatement flight rules at night! It is not hard to see where the responsibility for this lies........ unlikely that the Blackhawk pilots did this intentionally so for whatever reason they were not situationally aware, were not ahead of the aircraft, made a series of serious mistakes, and caused a tragedy. The culture in that cockpit was fatal, what was the relationship between the pilots because as a team they failed and killed of people. That is the unfortunate truth.
Yeah. I have no problems with military training in certain areas. Real world training is invaluable. Yet Trump essentially saying. "Thanks Obama" for this is hilariously sad . Flight control tower people are notoriously over worked, and underpaid. An insanely stressful, and underappreciated job by the general public. I'd have respect for Trump if he was like. Yeah we will pay people more, and give bigger budgets to hire more. Yet of course he isn't. Already came up with conspiracy theories himself.
@auderus CRM is an issue, cockpit resource management would dictate, ONE of the chopper pilot should have said YOU'RE TOO HIGH! I've never flown with NV. The NV I've used was a NV rifle scope. Any light source made sighting impossible
Could you intentionally hit a plane with a helo? I'm not even sure it's possible but it's also hard to understand how they accidentally hit a plane on a mostly pre-determined path. Even if they didn't see the plane they put themselves in a known path.. a few feet to the east, a few feet lower, impossible to collide. Nothing in the tracking for the plane showed anything abnormal. Just doesn't make sense.
Authorities tell you, "Don't fly drones around airports or where aircraft are flying. It's against the law. " So they fly a huge helicopter right near the end of an active runway. Real smart. Someone is going to pay MILLIONS in lawsuits.
@@EasyLivingDojo Agreed. Jail time is the only way to get accountability in this age of pass the buck to taxpayers. In fact, someone at the highest rung did not get any jail time...hmm, think of that!
Why, for the love of God, is the Army conducting dangerous training missions with limited sight equipment at night at a busy airport FILLED with CIVILIAN air traffic?! I'm appalled at how dangerous this was and find it incredibly irresponsible. There have been numerous near misses in this air space. It's just mind-boggling.
The helicopter took responsibility for visual separation so it's avoidable human mistake. When the ground knows exactly where all crafts are at all times I don't think any pilot should be allowed to be responsible about distance and safety based on own judgement. There are things like blind spots, distractions and misunderstanding.
It’s almost as if the Army, in protest of having a new Commander in Chief, had orders to cause complete loss of life, specifically someone who was on the oncoming commercial aircraft. I mean, it’s par for the course: The SS allowed a shooter with clear view of him at a rally.
The real question is why the helicopter was allowed to cross the glide path of multiple passenger aircraft lined up on final approach. This is like a child trying to cross a busy highway. Pilots know that accidents are caused by a chain of events, and breaking one link in the chain can stop an accident. So it's likely that the chopper pilot was at fault, If that area was off limits to chopper traffic, there would be no accident.
I lived in Old Town Alexandria during the 1980’s. Our townhouse (where many members of Congress from across the country have their residences in DC ) was directly under a flight route into DCA. The first flight each morning was at 7:00 am and the last, around 11:00pm because of all the residences under it. It was LOUD and the planes were flying REALLY LOW. At night, when the lights in the plane were on, we could actually SEE the passengers heads in the windows. We lived in Old Town, VA and vividly remember Air Florida #90 that crashed into the 14th St. Bridge while taking off in Jan 1982. 78 people were killed. We were just a few miles away. That airport is SCARY- love your proposal for Dulles
I understand completely. I'm much younger than you, but I live not too far from there, just along the GW Parkway. I hear helicopters and planes flying overhead routinely, and on my commute I can see them over the Potomac arriving and departing from Reagan National Airport. This whole accident has me terrified. My mom has a job that frequently requires flying in and out of Reagan, and I don't want to find out on the news one morning that it was her.. I hope the issues with the airspace and traffic control are resolved and and accident like this never happens again, at least not for a long long time.
@ oh my- I’m so sorry you live with that fear💙. It’s a scary place to live. I used to commute every day up the George Washington parkway to Rockville MD- fortunately, I kind of went against traffic. My husband was the GM of a hotel in crystal city. We lovec living in DC- it was very exciting for us (even coming from NYC!). We used to walk from our townhouse to restaurants in old town and we’d see politicians. I ALWAYS tried to sit near and eavesdrop on their conversations. lol But they MUST do something about that airport and air traffic. It’s dangerous 💜💜
I live in Madison WI and for a number of years between like 2016 to 2020 I lived in an apartment that is right near Dane County Airport, but also near a military airstrip that is connected.. They fly their stupid Fighter Jet training missions at all hours of the day and night there and loved to blow their afterburners as they took off, which was so loud it would shake the windows and apartment as they took off, sometimes 4-5 times a day in pairs of 2. Sometimes at night.. but mostly we would have Blackhawks flying overhead at night that you couldn't hear until they were overhead and shaking your entire apartment too. I don't have much sympathy or love for the pilots who are doing training missions 24/7 and making civilians lives Heck. Eventually of course after I moved out the fighter jets taking off stopped using their afterburners or whatever to be a bit quieter and waited until they were far out of the city to blow them, but i had to deal with that for years until the civilian population in one entire part of the City of Madison got fed up with it and said to the military 'wtf are you guys doing, people live here' There were so many no F-15 Jet signs everywhere for years.
Imagine being so close to home and seeing your family or arriving to your destination... and instead of your flight ending, your life ends. Imagine being family at the airport waiting for you to pick you up and see you. Absolutely horrifyingly SAD. 😭😭😭😭
They are at least with god now and will be on their next adventure as we all will one day arrive at. But this is tragic incident and the families will be devastated
A girl named Brielle Beyer was in that plane, she went to my school. I personally did not know her but she was described as a great and loving friend. She was also a great figure skater. All that talent gone way too soon. You will be missed Brielle.
The dad has reached out to our school that she was a warm and very nice girl. He also said she lit how the house when she sang songs and just enjoyed having a good time. Our map testing was cancelled Thursday and Friday due to the impact her passing has on her friends. They also brought a crisis team to my school to help out her friends. It is so weird for a student to be there Friday and die during the break. This is the first time I have experienced this so it will probably take me some time to get used to it.
I am an Australian that does not know the area but I do know about finding good off-beat solutions to problems, I spent 43 years at it. Your ideas strike me as ideal even better if it was possible to put above-ground rail lines in as it would be much cheaper. Good work keep it up and hope someone that counts listens.
Really tired of hearing people say "the plane hit the helicopter" when we all already KNOW the helicopter hit the plane. When the plane is approaching its runway as per control tower instructions, and the chopper is out of order nine ways to Sunday, it's just disingenuous to try to blame the plane pilots or anyone other than the people responsible for the chopper for the deaths the chopper caused.
Could be technical failure on the helo. We know the plane's pilot was not to blame, nor the ATC, but let's reserve judgement on the helo people until we know for sure.
Sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. They both collided with each other and that's a fact that has nothing to do with blame or responsibility. (Or maybe I'm just an Englishman making the questionable assumption that Americans actually speak English)
They have to fly these military operations there literally training to fly very important people out of the white house in the event of bad stuff happening. There literally are flying the route for that you can't practice that other places.
I'm not in the aviation field but from my maritime experience, vessels know whether they are on a collision course miles away. Because you always have to keep a watch of all vessels within the vicinity. Also, when a collision course is detected, by international safety conventions, vessels must alter their course/speed to get rid of that collision course. Certain vessels have the right-of-way which must be respected. There's also ship to ship communication on certain frequencies/channel to alert vessels of their potential collision course and usually the ship with the right-of-way would request that the other vessel change course/speed. That action is continuously monitored to ensure compliance. I believe that an aeroplane would have the right-of-way over a helicopter because a helicopter is much easier to manipulate (change its course, altitude and speed) irrespective of which is military. When an aircraft is approaching an airport, it should be in contact with the control tower. They would give clearance to enter that airspace. This requires them to know a lot of information of that aircraft like its bearing, altitude, velocity/speed, coordinates, etc AND that of other aircrafts within the space, entering or leaving the airspace. ATC = Air Traffic Control are supposed to be controlling the airspace around its tower, runaways. Entering, leaving and operating within that airspace MUST be coordinated, controlled by them.
I was a Flight Attendant for a major carrier for 23 years. I've always been astounded that DCA was open to commercial traffic, especially when Dulles is so close. The sheer number of government, military and security interests in the immediate area around DCA needs to be re-evaluated. We no longer rely on horse and carriage to move between buildings, so it might be a good time to scatter some of the more critical HQs across the country and use our advanced technology to communicate in real time. We also have the technology to solve, or at least mitigate against, the ground traffic congestion around DC. We just need the will to do it.
You got something major wrong right at the start. The helo collided with the plane. The helo also took the responsibility of maintaining visual separation, which they failed to do and as a result they flew into the aircraft coming in for a landing. ATC should not have believed that the helo pilot did have a visual on the plane because they were too close. ATC SHOULD HAVE diverted the helo, not asked a second time if they had a visual on the plane.
You are right. ATC didn't ask if they had the plane in visual. Warned them of a plane coming on approach, didn't tell them which one. Helo asked for Visual Sep and everyone assumed it was a plane on runway 01 not this flight that was diverted to runway 33(which is NOT a visual approach runway). The flight was diverted to give another plane on runway 01 time to take off. This is either the ATC controllers fault for not taking charge of the situation and diverting the helo on a 090 bearing away from the approach area from the start and not even put them in that area or it's the helo pilots fault for not confirming visual on heading. It could also be the FAA that only requires one controller on duty in one of the busiest airspaces in the country and the controller was overwhelmed but honestly 3 flights lining up in a row to land, one taking off, and helo taking off is not that much of load to handle, then again we didn't hear other frequencies they were monitoring at the same time if they were. This is a lack communication and assumption. These 2 things are killers in aviation. This is going to have be investigated but someone is gonna get sued because somebody messed up.
That small jet was landing at shorter runway. Had one just ahead and behind the small jet. Can't believe helicopter why they didn't have transponder on.
@@MastinoNapoletano420Say what you want about ATC but the Army took full control and responsibility with visual separation clearly communicated to the tower. They then commenced to fly into the commercial aircraft that the Army had just acknowledged it was aware of. It’s been reported the Army pilots were wearing night vision equipment. Which under bright light conditions can actually hinder one’s vision. And there were plenty of bright lights all along the Potomac River that night! There really doesn’t appear that further investigation(s) are necessary. The Army is clearly 100% at fault.
@@MastinoNapoletano420 Incorrect, ATC confirmed at least twice that the helo had the approaching traffic in sight and authorized visual separation twice as well.
I've lived here since 1961 and there's one reason why National Airport was built there and is still there - that's the US Congress. Senators and Representatives will not give up their handy airport for anything. I remember when I was a kid and the Congress wanted to add more flights to National. The people who lived here begged them to keep the sound down by limiting the flights. The neighborhoods in Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, Fairfax, and all the others are PACKED with house and apartment dwellers that have to put up with it all, not to mention the sheer danger of being hit by an accident. Despite this they keep adding more and more flights, year after year. The Metro system now goes to Dulles so it might not be the fastest transportation but it is convenient and most people I know would be happy to use it for their flights. It's the Congress who wants the convenience of getting in and out of town quickly and who insist they can't be inconvenienced by being forced to go to Dulles.
Very well covered and a great idea for a solution. Let's hope someone in power, someone with common sense, watches your videos. RIP to all who've lost their lives in this tragedy.
As a former Us Army Helicopter Pilot and flown in and out of the Pentagon ... Flight corridors for helicopter's, especially at night, demands maintaining a very specific altitude for a given heading. 150 feet above a required corridor attitude is a bust. All US Army Helicopter Pilots train in this type of high stress environment at Flight School.
@@robertbennett1287 so what do you think was the reason they didn't see it a blind spot maybe like in a car that's how 2 choppers crashed in Qld Australia
Why do you think they were almost 200 feet higher than they were supposed to be? Wouldn’t they know they were at too high an altitude? Even if they didn’t see the other plane, if they were at the correct altitude they would not have collided.
A really dumb idea to have a training exercise in the most congested airspace in the country. That's common sense. A lot more to the story that we'll never know.
@@noonespecial4171 it’s maneuvers need to be exercised in all conditions and scenarios. It’s absolutely nothing new it has been going on for decades and decades. This was human error a sad accident You can blame America because were human, but you can’t blame America because we’re Americans
I fly global for a living. I have for 15 years now. Since Covid, I now witness more incidences in a year than my entire career before. Cancelled and delayed flights, maintenance issues, oddball incidences such as minor failures, staff apathy and indifference, and flying has become a terrible experience. We sat 3 hours in Atlanta because there was no Gate Availability, and that’s happened multiple times flying international. I’ve had 4 flights this year taxi for take-off, and return to the gate to delay, cancel, or “Time-Out” on some vaguely explained issue. I am now willing to drive up to 14 hrs (highest available drive time in our policy) to avoid having to fly! Edit: Thanks Everybody for engaging my comment. I enjoyed reading every input, idea, and discussion. It hurts most because as a boy I dreamed of a career that keep me in the Air, seeing new places! The Airport was a Magical Place for a Rural Mississippi Boy!!! I spent many hours dreaming I was checking in my luggage for the next journey. This Nation stopped Dreaming a while back.
@@kylestokes4501 agree. My Dad is a retired pilot, flew corporate G2, Lear for 30 yrs up and down Eastern corridor. He’s 87 now, sharp as a tack. He flew in the glory days 60’s-80s. His last flight as Chief Pilot was his last time on a plane - he refuses to fly now for all the reasons you stated. Therefore, we have had some epic road trips from NC-West Coast, not a bad thing if you have the time. I’ve flown a ton in my life (lucky to have Dad as pilot before he retired). It’s really awful now. After this, I’ve cancelled an upcoming trip until the dust settles.
@@gracefullstitcher4707I agree! I have only flown domestically the past 12 years, but the last couple years I’ve noticed more flight issues which would cause delays or even redirecting flights for another nearby airport! Delays in the past were primarily weather reasons. Now it’s functional issues or staff problems
@@kylestokes4501 the crazy part is that driving has also gotten worse since the start of Covid too. Before Covid blatant bad moves, such as running reds or creating turning lanes where there are none, were pretty rare. Now I expect to see it anytime I go out.
I've noticed this too. I keep thinking of the movie Idiocracy where the planes were just falling out of the sky because society has just gone to hell. 😢 It's so scary.
This is because of DEI. Airports and airlines are no longer hiring based on merit, but on race and gender. I knew this would happen when I first heard about it. Close calls, runway incursions, engines falling off planes...this is what DEI has gotten us. The President has put an end to these hiring practices so I'm hopeful that things will start to clear up. AFAIC, all diversity hires should be fired, and let the people who know what they're doing have the jobs,
The arrogance of military helicopter teams crossing glideslopes of incoming passenger jets at a busy airport even at night with a vertical and visual (!) separation of only about 200 feet is just insane. That's all.
Economist here- I can tell you why it’s a civilian airport even though your points are right on- because congresspeople want direct flights from their home states. Recently they had the airport’s radius increased so that more of them could have this convenience, despite a lot of people (including some other congresspeople) protesting because the airport was already such a safety risk. This is not partisan BTW, congress works together for their own interests much more than we think. Your idea makes a lot of sense but our system isn’t set up to prioritize safety the way most of us assume it is.
The sense of entitlement in our politicians increases with each re-election. You are correct that it's on all sides of the aisle and not a politics issue, but a personnel issue. Any employee who has sat in the same chair for years starts to get comfortable and want even MORE comforts/perks. We need Term Limits in all elected positions. This will also help when it comes to Lobbying because if the person you are lobbying keeps changing every (let's say two) terms, it's hard to become "entrenched" with them and able to persuade them to your cause. This would also limit the deep contacts a politician has when they leave office and turn around and begin lobbying on behalf of an entity that they were lobbied by for years.
@Sarafimm2 *YES.* I've always said that a politician's party isn't what incentivises corruption (not that it has zero influence), but it's mostly due to how safe their seat is.
It's disappointing how nobody is mentioning this very important factor. But why not include in the plan that politicians get direct flights because they're special, and keep them out of the civilian airport? I may be missing a few steps, with my rudimentary understanding of the issues involved, but I feel like they might vote for something like this. Could be worth it to improve safety for the people.
I’m an old guy that used to fly into Washington National (before it was Reagan). Noise abatement required arriving jets to fly low along the river and make a pretty tight turn to land at DCA. Back in the 60s, as part of my studies in civil engineering, I took a course in airport design and it was stated that Dulles was constructed to replace Washington National, but political pressure forced Washington National to stay in service as it was so convenient for commuting.
Yeah that violates the "stabilized approach concept" which generally implies that on short final there should be no turns or change in power, just a gentle stabilized descent for last 4 to 500 ft. The crj could not see easily see an acft below and to the right because they were in a tight left descending turn. Ex army IP, civ ATP medical helicopter pilot 33 yrs 10000 hrs speaking
Yes it seems like Dulles was built with no thought about getting people to and from it efficiently. Then traffic just got worse and worse. The underground train would be great but I don't know who's going to pay for that.
@@marnipratama6892 not as much when the helicopter requested to maintain visual seperation. It then became their duty to do so, which wasn't an easy task but it was their responsibility
About the Dulles vs. Dallas confusion.....I was walking towards the gates at Dulles one day many years ago (late 1980's). As I passed by the United desk, I saw a man and his wife who were very upset. I heard enough of the conversation to understand that they had just flown in from South Korea. They were intending to visit family in Dallas but there had been some confusion in Seoul when they booked their flights. Instead of being booked to Dallas, they were booked to Dulles. They were going to have to buy 2 one way tickets from Dulles to Dallas at the last minute, very expensive. I felt bad for them, it was an honest mistake and not hard to imagine how that could happen to someone who speaks English as a second language.
Ahhh the ole DIA IAD - DCA switcharooooo 😂 that’s why ATC changed the 3-letter ID years ago - controllers were giving the wrong crossing restrictions with IAD’s (DIA old ID) on top of altitude wise DCA’s
I do believe there are quite a few people over here who honestly don't know that Dulles is even there honestly. Even living in the general area, it alips the mind until brought up or I have to go out there. It's DCA and BWI. Dulles is "that" airport lol. You don't think about it until you have to, unless you live in its flight zone.
So many of my friends were on that plane, and all of them deserved to live. This could’ve been 100% avoided, but it still happened. I’m scarred for life and will probably need therapy. I’m so sorry for anyone who’s family or friend in the crash, and I hope we can prevent these things in the future.💔💔❤️🩹❤️🩹 Fly high my friends🕊️🕊️
I’m a professional aviator, both military and civilian, transport category jet. I’m not going to speculate on the cause of this accident. But as a general comment, having a VFR flight lane cutting across final approach for a major airport like that is insane. Relying on visual separation at night with aircraft in such close proximity and so much background light pollution is also pretty sketchy. If they’re going to insist on using that lane, or there’s no other option, aircraft using it should be advised of a potential requirement for extended holding clear of the RWY01/RWY33 final approach paths, and be held until there is a sufficiently large gap that aircraft can be separated laterally as well as vertically.
I live here and am a pilot (used to fly in and out of DCA before 9/11). There is no reason for that particular helicopter route. There are zillions of other possible routes over there.
It came to my attention that a minimum of 4 people were meant to be onboard the Helicopter, to secure the safety in taking Visual separation responsibility. 2 crew Chiefs were meant to sit behind both pilots, to look out either side...this was clearly not done. I wish things were done properly, I'm sure it wasn't a lack of fundings but more due to a lack of neglect of securing correct and accurate levels of safety
Happens, Ever been on a plane at night. Easy to lose objest in that enviroment. City lights will also wash out night vision and also distorts range. Chance are they were tracking the plane taking off thinking it was the plane the ATC warned them about. I'm pretty sure it will come out the blackhawk crew was at fault. Just a terrible accident.
yeah this whole thing is weird as hell. the plane is not able to do much but the helos are maneuverable. how did they not see something right in front of them and on instruments? unless, did something interfere with their instruments? get shut off or scrambled like that plane in kajickstan that ruzzia wouldn't let land?
@jeff-ni5cy I agree, but those military aircraft are designed to pick up everything around them for miles around, and on top of it all, they were clearly out of their flight corridor, I believe they are restricted to 200 ft, but they were at around 350 ft...it just doesn't make sense that they didn't know a jet that big was right in front of them given the craft they were flying, regardless of the time of day or the outside lighting...I assume that they were trained for this type of exercise before being sent into commercial airspace?
@@christopherjones6802 I believe the night vision (if they were using it) would obstruct their vision even more. Also the incoming plane would have been to the helicopter pilot's left side. I believe they mistook the outgoing plane for the one control was talking about. They should have verified the tail number. Completely the heli's fault
They confirmed a plane , the one that was taking off not the one that was about to land. 1. Flight control did not specify to confirm visuals on the "landing craft" 2. The helicopter did not specify that it saw the "landing craft". 😢
Thank congress for voting down closing Regan International. They want convenience vs safety. I'm a USAF vet. 🇺🇸 I worked downtown DC 14 years ( private sector) after I got out of Air Force... That airport is dangerous.
As a civilian, I was not aware just how narrow the airspace corridors were. You really have a thoughtful perspective and incredible suggestion that merits serious consideration. This video gives me goosebumps. Respect.
I’m an aviation medical examiner (doctor working with pilots), and the other cohort who are equally regulated, trained and ‘elite’ are Air Traffic Controllers. Only about 2% of yr population have the cognition to undertake their role, it’s a fascinating area of human performance. These guys do get overloaded, but not in this case - they had full situational awareness, but as requested, had handed-off the responsibility for collision-avoidance to the helicopter crew, essentially allowing them to go VFR. Except absolutely NOT, because ‘daylight’ and ‘minimum separations’ are inherent to VFR, night-vision or not. Also, that’s an Apache not a black hawk, pictured around 5 min
Absolutely stunning comment, because that was not just a "mechanical" situation viewed from perspective of the physics. Two very complicated human activities along with many other complications surrounding that hectic environment is a pure recipe for disaster! Along the line of your professional perspective regarding the extreme challenges to the humans cognition and control - how does it stack for piloting a heli? I read some years ago that it is the most challenging coordination demand for humans brains?
so are you saying that Air Traffic Controllers shouldn't have allowed the chopper pilots to go VFR? Is it a clear violation of policy (daylight, etc), or a judgement call?
pat 25 is a blackhawk. ATC said "PAT25, traffic jsut south of the woodrow bridge, a CRJ..." Helo pilot replies with "PAT 25 HAS THE TRAFFIC IN SIGHT, REQUEST VISUAL SEPARATION" is his informing ATC he will manage visual separation FROM THE CRJ. ATC then says "visual separation approved" it is him saying he is taking responsibility for visual separation from the CRJ. He said he had it. He misspoke.
The Blackhawk pilot was wearing night vision goggles which reduces peripheral vision, so that could be the cause of him not seeing the commercial flight.
@@VaxxedStories That's not going to work. All three crew members looking exactly at the same spot? No. The copter was perpendicular to the airliner at only a slight degree off from 90. Nope, the goggles had nothing to do with this.
There has to be a reason every single one of these reporters are getting the details wrong, especially after watching the video. I literally had a troll hit my post on FB try to say different. Why would someone steal a profile, then troll for people who called out the bullshi? It's weird.
Most major and busy airports like Ronald Reagan have helicopter routes with altitude restrictions that heli pilots must follow. In the area where the collision occurred the helicopter was following Route 1 and should have been at a max altitude of 200', not at 300-350', and closely hugging the east shore of the river, not in the middle of it. If the Army must do night training, they should fly between 12am and 4am when there is almost no commercial traffic.
At present, the facts are not fully known and there is still much evidence to gather. It seems to me that to say A hit B, or B hit A are presently unhelpful statements. The most idiotic statements were those spewed out by the present occupant of the White House. What a fuktard. It's sometimes better to keep one's mouth shut and let people think you're a twat, rather than open it and leave them in no doubt.
In Australia, we had two military helicopters in fatal night crash where the pilots were also using night goggles that distort distance perception - sounds like similar story.
This is a known issue and SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED THEN. This is so stupid and unnecessary. And what is a helo doing crossing glide slope altitude of AC on approach at a busy airport anyway!? Insane...
@@chris2790 yup, don’t forget the black hawk can be remote controlled. They were doing a show and tell a year who on the black hawk had remote control abilities.
TY for your analysis of the DCA’s location in relation to the Pentagon, White House and the Capitol. I am not an engineer or by no means an expert in aviation, but what you said made sense. Would you consider presenting what you shared in this video to the FAA or the NTSB? So you can put your ideas into action ? Just something to think about.
Actual communication: CT: "PAT25, do you have the CRJ in sight?" The air traffic controller then tells the helicopter pilot to "pass behind" the American Airlines jet. The helicopter pilot checks in, saying that the plane is in sight and again requests "visual separation," which is granted. Apparently, the helicopter pilot was looking at a departing airplane well ahead, so he was just about to pass behind it as instructed. Now let’s imagine the traffic controller saying this: “PAT25, you have traffic at 11 o’clock. Do you have the airplane in sight?" Meaning it couldn’t be the departing plane. The outcome would have been completely different
Yes, this is the most probable sequence of events. Although I know better than this and waiting for the NTSB preliminary is the smart comment. I'll bet this is exactly what happened!
@@coreyv574The traffic was called 5-7 miles earlier and the Helicopter pilot said they see it and requested to proceed with the promise they won't hit it. The comment above is when the controller reached out a second time because he noticed that they were getting close. The pilot kept confirming that he saw the plane and the controller had no reason to question it since this is a very very routine thing across the flying community.
No flight knowledge at all, but I always assumed no aircraft was ever allowed to cross the axis of an airport runway at the same altitude as an approach glide slope.
Alec, you are correct, the chopper was Southbound on path 4 which has a 200 ft altitude, hugging the East bank of the Potomac, to the Wilson Bridge. The altitude then rises to 300 ft. At the time of collision the chopper had risen to 300 ft several miles early, but also that ATC had rerouted the airliner to runway 33 creating an overlap with path 4. A series of Several errors are almost always involved in these tragedies.
You are correct. ATC is ultimately responsible as "the boss of the airspace." ATC can deny any request for safety reasons, and is ultimately responsible. ATC inadvertently murdered sixty four souls by granting them clearance to land, and abrogating responsibility afterward. ATC controllers cannot see all air traffic just from the tower itself; they primarily rely on radar systems to monitor aircraft beyond visual range, meaning they see aircraft on a display screen rather than directly with their eyes, even when working from a tower. Key points about ATC visibility: Radar technology: Controllers use secondary surveillance radar to track aircraft position, altitude, and identification, which allows them to monitor traffic far beyond what they can see visually from the tower. Limited visual range: While controllers can see aircraft close to the airport with their eyes, the radar system is crucial for managing traffic further out. Display screens: The radar information is displayed on specialized screens in the control tower, giving controllers a comprehensive picture of air traffic in their area. ATC is responsible to confirm compliance with their directives.
@@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi Utter rubbish. This was NOT the fault of ATC. Helicopter asked for visual approach so took responsibility for separation. ATC saw the potential issue which is why they asked the helicopter to confirm visual a second time. Helicopter reassured they saw the airplane twice while at the same time heading straight towards it. At the time ATC requested to take 33 the situation was completely in hand and the aircraft were nowhere near each other. ATC even gave a description of the airplane location well in advance and it looks like as soon as the helicopter caught visual of another aircraft further away, they ignored the details given to them. Watch any real account of this incident which includes tracking info and ATC/heli comms.
@@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi I believe you've got the wrong definition of 'murder'. So far, there is no indication that the ATC was committing any crime, let alone a felony, which would have to be committed during this tragedy for it to be considered a murder.
You make a very good point. It makes sense. I was shocked to see that the air traffic controller was alone and had to manage both military and civilian flights alone. Good work. Thanks for your details .
There was some politically driven chaos and upheaval of the ATC. Normally a controller can mind more than one aircraft but there is a limit even when things are normal.
He wasn't alone. He was the ATC for runway 33, there are 2 more for the other 2 runways.. There was also another controller in contact with the helo, and several other persons in the tower. There are several videos that explain better than this guy.
Unbelievable choice for one person to be in charge of that busy space….I agree with your thoughts just rework Dulles airport and keep Regan for military…good idea
As a former H60 airframe mechanic stationed in a very active military and commercial flight area...... We had so much air traffic that you would need two people scanning 24 7 while flying small aircraft from the private pilots training facility on base. The first time I had an instructor take me on my first shake down ride he almost hit a h60 during a touch and go .... I remember him saying DAMN did you see him... I replied if you didn't see him I definitely did not see him ..... not sure that was the answer he was looking for. When you have 15 aircraft all in the same area that are cruzing at drastically different speeds and with delta class airspace all over your trying to avoid it can be absolutely overwhelming for a young individual learning how to fly.
"Collide with" does not imply fault or responsibility. If you run out in a busy street and get hit by a bus, the description of the accident will not be that you collided with a bus. Generally, the bigger or faster moving object is described as colliding with the smaller or slower moving object. Think of a train hitting an automobile on the tracks. Train collides with automobile. Automobile driver is at fault.
Yet, the media and government trying to spin it to look as if it were the air control people who did a bad job. The lies, the lies, the lies and manipulation.
@RandallBriggs-s2k no. The helicopter ran into the plane. If a pedestrian ran, as in running, into an ongoing bus, you would say that the "pedestrian ran into the bus", and not say "the bus ran over the pedestrian". In both of these instances, the lighter object had the capacity to miss the heavier object. If the pedestrian was standing still for an extended period, then it would be the bus that hit the pedestrian. FFS
you're right. the blame must fall on the chopper. the chopper was still used for training, and made mistake on its altitude, crossed the busiest airport planes' route in the night / dark situation.
@@RDAmidwest exactly! Why did the blackjack appear to get as close as possible to the first 2 planes it met? Why did it gain 200' of elevation seconds before it crashed into the side of the plane? We will never know!
@@Bitterrootbackroads you don't have to bet that 200ft is in between cruise altitude and landing on a runway, of course it is because the plane will go through every alt number between ~1000 and rwy altitude when landing. Of course 200ft is basically 100-200ft from the lines so it would be even worse for the helicopter to be there than where it was.
True.. it may have been a crazy close near miss but if that 200 ft crosses exactly in that area it seems the plane would be about 3-4 while the heli at 2 the plane was on course. It seems the heli was a bit high which is all it took
@17:56 You are correct, San Diego is the busiest single runway airport in the world, however DCA rwy 01/19 is the busiest RUNWAY in the world. Back before regional jets, we used all the runways at DCA 04/22, 15/33 and 01/19 when Turbo Props ruled the commuter airlines. They quickly faded in the early 2000's and gave way to regional jets. Over time, the RJs stop accepting the off runways at DCA and had to be blended in with the major Airlines on 01/19. Even today, its very hard to get an RJ to accept on off runway at DCA unless the wind is just right (such as in the horrific accident a few nights ago). The winds were out of the NW at 15 gusting to 20 or 25 kts basically right down runway 33. So Bluestreak accepted the circle to land runway 33. Anyway back to my story, with all the turboprops that are now RJ's DCA is basically a single runway airport with maybe a few operations an hour on the off runways because jets like long runway so they almost always one the longest one. Runway 01/19 is 7169 feet long, runway 15/33 is 5204 feet long.
Spent 17 yrs, after retiring from the Navy, working at the Atlantic Test Ranges on board NAS Pax so I can certainly attest to the abundance of air traffic all around the Potomac/Chesapeake area. I was involved in several post mishap reclamation efforts. I agree 100% that civilian/military should not share the same airspace due to the extreme differences in communication and navigation equipment and procedures. Close DCA to civilian air traffic NOW...before this happens again. Nice work, TwoBit.
It's opinions like yours which I rely on in horrific situations like this because its your experience that tells a great deal. Newscasters are just talking heads, no pun intended.
Perhaps it should be that the military that curbs its operations. The evidence suggests strongly that it was the helicopter that flew into an airliner. Further mitigation might be achieved if training of helicopter pilots takes place well away from civilian airports and associated air traffic corridors during the hours of darkness. When the Air traffic controller asked the helicopter pilot could see the CRJ and he replied yes there is not any confirmation that they knew what the other was making strict reference to. If the air traffic controller had said ‘do you see the CRJ at your eleven clock, closing fast on your immediate heading and altitude? suggest immediate left turn” then events might have led to a happier outcome. That said, it was not the air traffic controller’s responsibility, after the helicopter pilot had asked and had received permission to fly visual.
No you have it wrong, the military aircraft was the one at total fault here. It's the MILITARY which should not be using very congested airspace like this.
@joe2mercs You're absolutely correct friend...the chopper struck the commercial liner...that's why advocates are speaking out for routing ALL commercial flights through Dulles and restricting DCA to military ops.
@Wasserkaktus please pay attention and try to keep up friend...noone is disputing that the chopper struck the airliner...the issue is that they don't need 2 commercial airports in such close proximity...route ALL commercial flights through Dulles and restrict DCA to the military. And yes, it makes perfect since to have the military in close proximity to the Capitol center.
I live about 50 miles from EVV it’s a small regional airport. On February 6,1992 a C-130 Military Cargo Plane crashed near the airport during a training mission. It crashed into a Drury Inn and the attached restaurant named Jo Jo’s. There were 5 military and 11 civilians on the ground killed in that accident. The military would use the airport for “Touch and Go” maneuvers. The plane stalled at 1300 feet and went nose first straight into the crash site.There was Public outrage over using a civilian airport for dangerous military training maneuvers. The airport was just on the edge over a city of 150,000 people. The military no longer uses that airport for training. It’s eerie that February 6 is next week.
ATC is ultimately responsible as "the boss of the airspace." ATC can deny any request for safety reasons, and is ultimately responsible. ATC inadvertently murdered sixty four souls by granting them clearance to land, and abrogating responsibility afterward. ATC controllers cannot see all air traffic just from the tower itself; they primarily rely on radar systems to monitor aircraft beyond visual range, meaning they see aircraft on a display screen rather than directly with their eyes, even when working from a tower. Key points about ATC visibility: Radar technology: Controllers use secondary surveillance radar to track aircraft position, altitude, and identification, which allows them to monitor traffic far beyond what they can see visually from the tower. Limited visual range: While controllers can see aircraft close to the airport with their eyes, the radar system is crucial for managing traffic further out. Display screens: The radar information is displayed on specialized screens in the control tower, giving controllers a comprehensive picture of air traffic in their area. ATC is responsible to confirm compliance with their directives.
@@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi ATC should have no reason to deny a request for them to use visual separation, all the training pilots go through with phraseology, requesting visual separation regardless of wether or not they saw the plane that they ended up colliding with, takes the responsibility out of ATCs hands
ATC gave all the instructions and positions necessary for the helicopter pilot to avoid problems. The only other way they would do was if they would have remote override controls. As things like that are sci-fy stuff we either have trust in training or more restricted scenary. Trust in training of military heli pilots is gone now. Seems that Ricky suggestion is the way to go.
it could have been intentional. whens the last time any type of accident occurred over the Potomoc 3 miles from the White House? 1982? thats a pretty good record of safety. No need for spontaneous irrational changes@gesilsampaioamarantesegund6692
As incredibly tragic as this is, I can’t help but think of how the collision happened over the water. Every time I drive into DC from the south there’s planes flying directly over the bridge/city streets/pedestrians, landing or taking off, and I can’t even imagine what it would have been like if the plane and helicopter landed on any of the roadways
43 years ago a plane did crash into the 14th St Bridge and then into the Potomac. That crash also happened in January. There were fatalities on the bridge and the plane. I remember watching the rescue operations on TV. The cause was pilot error and weather-- ice had formed on the wings.
As a naturalized US Citizen, I am embarrassed of this country, the state of it's infrastructure, healthcare.. it all leads back to money in everything, including politics.
Why? Military aircraft operate in all airspaces. They must be proficient in flying in those controlled airspaces. Please think before posting stupidity!
@@kiotee_nouw Requesting visual separation at night while busting the altitude and flying into a passenger plane on short final is "proficient" ?? OK. Military and civilian spaces should be separated, like they are in other parts of the country. I disagree with OP that military traffic should move, though, it sounds like it's the civilian traffic that needs to get out of the heart of DC.
The claim of stupidity still stands. The military owns the sky's and SHOULD be proficiency in flying in crowded airspace. This is the whole point of the video.
I live in Arlington, have lived in Northern Virginia all my life, and have a wife who flies out of DCA regularly. There is absolutely no reason to shut down the airport, or even restrict it to military use. This only the first accident at this airport since the Air Florida Flight 90 incident in 1982. That's 43 years. And this happened because the military helicopter did not abide by the rules and flew well above the altitude ceiling. This was an issue of either the helicopter's altimeter giving the wrong altitude or the helicopter pilots being confused/distracted. I don't think we need to shut down or change anything beyond understanding why the helicopter pilots did not follow the rules and taking steps to prevent that from happening again. Maybe an argument could be made that there are too many flights in/out of DCA or that the tower is understaffed/unprepared, but shutting down the airport is a bad idea.
That's that DEI-level quality control I guess. Good thing he's not a pilot anymore, according to the co-POTUS. Though he's stone cold shillin' for Elon's BoringCo., so maybe they'll give him a pass? He could be "Chief Executive of Thanks For All The Favors", at the FAA... as long as he signs the loyalty pledge.
I've been a privet pilot since 1978 and controlled air space scares me. I can't believe that the military conducts training flights in such high traffic air space, under and around high traffic controlled air space,,,,, an accident waiting to happen. I do appreciate your analysis of the situation and the fact that you propose a logical and viable solution to the situation which incorporates existing infrastructure to support the solution.
I saw a comment that said training flights are NOT done around DCA. They also said all pilots were very experienced. Not quite true. Relatively low hours and the pilot flying had not been flying for a year or so while she was an aide to the White House.
Are people just commenting on this video wanting to pitch in their two cents without actually having watched it? It's pretty insane why this civilian airport is where it is, regardless of recent events
Yes, but ATC have ultimate control over the airspace. Failure to command their airspace can only be excused if the helicopter ignored their commands. If there was no command or unclear command was given, ATC is ultimately responsible.
100% on FAA policy IMHO. 1. One controller on duty should never happen. 2. A secondary aircraft crossing arrival and departure space should never happen.
Wouldn't have mattered... the controllers control "sectors" or pieces of pie around the airport. There still would have been only one person controlling that approach area.
I have flown into DCA for the military and a civilian all my long life. I agree with all your observations and with your suggestion for a resolution. God help the families affected by this catastrophe.
One report was that members of congress had put pressure on these airlines to ADD flights to Regan/National so they could do non-stop flights back to their home districts (including this one to Kansas). The airlines did not want to because the airport is so busy but still added the flight. Second report was that there was only ONE Air Traffic Controller on duty when two is the normal minimum. Finally Night Vision I have seen makes everything monochromatic green/black and not color. The red/green/white marker lights are there to give some clue as to the direction of other aircraft which would be filtered out with the night vision, especially is such a massivly busy are with thousand of lights. Landing at Regan/National was wild even 40 years ago as it looks like you are landing on the river, then suddenly the runway is there.
@macBailey Air traffic control does not state that 2 controllers are a minimum it all depends on how busy it is and depends on who is leaving and going .
There are other airports with a lot more traffic than DCA. There is nothing wild about flying over the river. MDW is in the middle of Chicago with 6000 ft runways.
Suggesting staff shortage suggests ATC were so overworked that they didn't see the potential issue. They did, and its why they asked the helicopter pilot to confirm a second time that they had visual of airplane.
CAN ANYBODY ANSWER THIS ? JUST THE BIG QUESTION. EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE IGNORING OR AVOIDING THIS QUESTION ! THIS IS TERRIBLE....What strikes me hard is this : (QUESTIONS) WHY would an helicopter (army or not) be allowed to fly against the incoming traffic ? This is absolutely contrary to all elementary rules concerning airports traffic. WHY is this ? WHY was that helicopter allowed to fly in a direction opposite to the incoming traffic ?The cause of the collision is here. Noboby speaks about this. Can you clairify, please ? Thank you.
Because if it had been at the proper altitude. It would have been in it's air lane. Two aircraft flying at two different altitudes is fine. There is plenty of space up there. And. These routes are planned. LOTS of heads came together to plan these routes and safe altitudes and hard ceilings. Not to mention. It is the captain's responsibility to slow or divert if things do not look safe.
Yet , they’ve been following this procedure for years Had recent near misses. A plane cannot change direction , position as easily or quickly as a helicopter, so they don’t belong together
If the blackhawk looked like it was coming or going to the airport, I would agree with you, but it wasn't. The helicopter was following the river, as helicopters often do, and the river just happens to wrap around the airport.
21:08 What's crazy is I'm looking at this flight path and realizing that I've been aboard a plane that had to do this. It was Delta. I was very confused. We were about to land in DCA, then the pilot turned back and did a huge loop for seemingly no reason. We landed on the 2nd attempt. I'm just putting this together LOL. I fly regional jets in & out of DCA all the time for work. I could have been on that flight. Scary stuff.
That's called a go around. Where a plane doesn't land but goes around to try again. A go around is when a pilot decides to try landing again happens for numerous reasons. Not unknown.
Sir, it's not just congressman. DCA is ideal for single moms with 2 or 5 kids, elders, budget travelers, newbies (like college students in DC), and others who value the convenience of flying in and out of the DCA area. I attended Gallaudet University in DC, and DCA has always been my go-to airport. Let's shut down the copper routes for good.
I don't see how the helicopter's view was not compromised. The weather was clear, both aircraft were at the same altitude so no one was looking at the ground and the helicopter's airspeed could have been anything right down to zero. It was absolutely a failure of the helicopter pilot. Not ATC and certainly not the civilian plane. Almost all airports have hazards...if we were to close every airport which has hazards we'd close down almost all the airports.
Hearing the report that the BH pilots were wearing NVG (night vision goggles) as a training exercise, I can guarantee those caused this issue.. I have used them a bunch, and they are difficult to see out of for many different reasons, especially with all the other lights around the area, when there is any other light source it blows out your vision and makes everything super illuminated.. And they would struggle to maintain proper use of their gauges as well..
From the last radar traces the Blackhawk was at 300ft (100ft above the maximum corridor height) and climbing just before the crash - BIG question WHY - other question is why is there a helicopter corridor so close to an active and very congested airspace around this airport
Honest assessment of your own flight skills. Not everyone is cut out to be a pilot. Clearly, you are smart enough, but the liability risks make it a challenge for you. This disclosure make me trust you more 2b!
They're leaving out a CRITICAL piece of information that almost proves the collision was deliberate. The helicopter was at 200ft for MOST of it's flight. It SUDDENLY decided to rise to almost 400ft when the airliner was near enough to cause a collision. That sounds DELIBERATE unless you believe in a 1 in 1000 chance of that happening by accident.
I'm a US Army veteran with experience in air load planning on rotary wing, as well several generations of night vision (NVGs, NODs, etc) while training airload ops at night. I lost count of how many helicopter flights I've been on. The DoD is relentless with regards to safety. As much as I hate to admit it, I wouldn't doubt it if we discover the flight crew was "hotdogging" during their likely routine training mission. That airliner would be highly visible when seen through an NV system. I frequently capped my NVGs to limit ambient light when working on the flight line because NV makes even the dimmest light appear as spotlights. Even a single aircraft can illuminate a flight line. I just can't understand how the Blackhawk crew didn't see an aircraft with gear down directly in front of them, because nose gear includes a spotlight for take off & landing. I genuinely hope I'm wrong, but I've watched heli pilots pull some incredibly dangerous stunts for clout.
Remember the plane that snagged the cable of a cable car in Italy? Where they said afterwards that the cable car (which had been there for decades) wasn’t on their map? Meanwhile the inhabitants of the valley were constantly complaining that the Americans were flying so low the cows lost their milk for the fright. What likely happened was that flying under the cable was a sort of fun stunt. People, even very highly trained military officers, can be incredibly stupid.
For 26 years as a Washington based airline Captain I flew out of Reagan National (DCA) and Washington Dulles (years ago I learned to say Washington Dulles so no one thinks I'm saying Dallas), roughly 1500 to 2000 take-offs and landings at DCA. First, after 9/11 the reason Reagan reminded open was because Congressmen do NOT fly private, they fly commercial. Congress kept Reagan open in 2001, and Congress will keep Reagan open in the future. Second, in 2010 Washington Dulles opened its underground AeroTrain to move passengers from the main terminal to outlying terminals. Third, the helicopter callsign was PAT25. PAT (Priority Air Transport). PAT aircraft are used to ferry VIP's. Millions of everyday citizens use Reagan every year. Why should those citizens be denied the convenience of Reagan Airport so a very few spoiled government bureaucrats can receive VIP treatment that they do NOT deserve. Note, NO Army tactical war type training occurs going up and down the Potomac River. There are designated areas for Army helicopter tactical training. Fourth, a knot is a unit of speed. You referred to it as a unit of distance. Fifth, if DCA were given over to the military the high-speed rail you described would never be built, and the Army PAT (Priority Air Transport) would be given a new responsibility, flying Congressmen from Dulles to downtown Washington. The public would be stuck, massively inconvenienced by the terrible highway system surrounding DC. Sixth, I am a little suspicious you are being paid to promote the idea that the military should have exclusive use of Reagan and its associated airspace, so, a new government pert would be created for Congress, and, as I said before, the public would be stuck with archaic transport from Dulles to downtown.
I feel like this guy doesn't even know what he's talking about. at 6:29 he says the helicopter may have mistaken the plane taking off but that one was way out of their way and behind the helicopter
Thank you! For the first time, someone disagreed with this blogger about moving DCA to Dulles. NEVER! I have so many memories associated with DCA. It was where I first attended college in DC (Gallaudet University). It was convenient for avoiding traffic-imagine my first time visiting DC as a college student in 1987! I began to appreciate the convenience of flying in and out of DCA during my second year of college and for many years thereafter. Yes, I learned about the Beltway a few months after starting college in DC, and navigating it can be tough, especially when planning getaway trips. Military considerations are always secondary; civilians come first. Just imagine a single mom with 2 or 4 kids, elders, budget travelers, and newbies (like me in my first year of college) who need the convenience of flying in and out of DCA.
These two aircraft heading towards each other were approaching each other at the least 600 feet per second. By the time they both saw trouble there wasn't enough time to react. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this. Think about this, it is night and they are approaching each other at a distance of at least 600 feet per second. Damn .
I feel the only one that can see this happening is the controller, they should have relayed plane was at 12 o'clock to them and alerted potential collision. Asking "Do you have a visual", is a basic question and it relays no info or warning to them. Or maybe even answer "request for separation" should have been denied?
I'm a retired Airline Pilot and I used to fly in and out of that place all the time and I always remembered Military Helicopters flying low along the east bank of the river. I never thought much of it until now.
Flying LOW along the Potomac is the key to your statement. This Helo was above it's limit in altitude with three pilots on board or at least two and not one of them realized they were above their altitude and flying directly into a flight path of a landing commercial plane? It's landing lights were on so how do you miss that lit up beacon?
@@snahg2356 Any distraction can cause you lose of gain 100’ like looking outside and fixating on the wrong aircraft. VFR, night, crowded airspace, NVG, all speculation until the investigation is complete.
One of the brutal political challenges we’d face in de-civilianizing Reagan is that CONGRESS, the Senate in particular, really really wants and fiercely lobbies for MORE traffic at Reagan, mostly direct flights to their home districts. They want nothing to do with Beltway traffic, and are pretty attached to their convenience and privileges. Furthermore they’re not all that interested in funding major infrastructure projects, particularly in the Trump Administration. And the hostility in Congress to high speed and commuter rail, public transit in general, is truly astonishing.
My heart goes out to the families of the victims of this horrific tragedy. My heart is breaking. These were children, and their coaches, and the others coming home from their work commitments. These beautiful souls may they rest in heaven, praying and sincere condolences to their families.
Unfortunate victims of the abject stupidity of the military, and totally unnecessary. No justice in this life for those poor airline passengers and crew.
As an amateur figure skater this feels personal to me. Reading the stories of these talented young figure skaters, their coaches, and the families that have been torn apart by this tragedy has been utterly heartbreaking. I read that one of the skaters was travelling with both parents while his sister was at college and can't even imagine what she must be going through right now. I hope the various agencies involved will make the necessary changes to avoid an incident like this ever happening again.
I saw a comment where there’s a bridge on the helicopters flight path as a landmark and they think the helicopter mistook another bridge sp they weren’t where they thought they were
Stop the helicopter rides! Why do these politicians have to have their own private helicopter/taxi to the airport? Let them take the subway from Capitol Hill to Dulles, like the rest of us.
So, the heli is ultimately completely at fault. When accepting a traffic in sight call and pass behind instructions, it completely puts the responsibility on the pilots of the heli to avoid. My sincerest condolences to the families and loved ones. You have some great ideas to keep the busiest airspace in the nation more separated. And it would make sense to reserve Reagan for military and diplomatic flights.
The worst part is I knew this was going to happen and tried to tell people and warn people days before, but it fell on deaf ears! And the close call 24 hours before of almost the exact same scenario and still nobody took precautions or did anything like add another ATC! When is the Army going to own up to this and pay restitution to the victims families?
@@Laurelberninteriorsi think the plane would have seen the helo but not vice versa just because of the way their paths intersected..helo was moving from south east to north west while the plane came from south west . Helo pilots were probably focusing on the 2nd jet you see in the video (which was taking off just ahead) in the north easterly direction plus they were wearing nvg which reduces your peripheral vision. As far as the jet is concerned, the pilots would have seen the helo just a sec or two before impact..too little time to manouevre a jet that size.
@@akshayaman750 doesn't make sense for helo pilot to focus attention on plane taking off away from them and not toward helo. Hopefully helo pilot was not suicidal.
Never thought that deeply about it but every time i have flown into DCA i’ve thought, “I can’t believe they let all these planes get so close to all the monuments, Pentagon, etc. You have a great vision. Thanks.
Why is is this NOT suicide? The Blackhawk pilot was clearly warned of the the regional jet 30 seconds before impact, the night was so clear that cameras miles away were able to capture the aircraft course and collision, the Blackhawk was flying 200 feet above the maximum altitude it should have been flying, and we know now that the Blackhawk had veered off course. And finally, the pilot was a very experienced pilot with more than a 1,000 hours of flight time. Everything about this collision is beginning to look very intentional to me. As crazy as it sounds, they should investigate this as a possible suicide. Instead of asking questions, the air traffic controller should have instructed and demanded that the Blackhawk pilot change its flight path; for example, BANK LEFT!!!, BANK RIGHT!!! PULL UP!!!, or DIVE!!! Had he done so, there might have been a different outcome. Unless, this was suicide! Also, with all the flight experience this pilot had, he absolutely should have known that they were entering a flightpath corridor dedicated to commercial aircraft landing at that airport. I also find it interesting that the pilot confirmed that he had a visual on an aircraft, but if he mistook which aircraft, the pilot missed the aircraft that was right in front of him. Given the clear night that it was, it makes no sense to me that he could miss a well-lit aircraft right in front of him. Sad, but may be true!
I think that your solution to the problem is one of the most practical that I have heard of. When you have aircraft flying in such close proximity to each other, it is a recipe for disaster, which is exactly what happened. My heart goes out to all the victims of the crash. Just from your explanation of how traffic is routed in and out of DCA, I can see an immediate problem that exist. Thank you very much for your commentary and God bless.
I have lived in the US since the early 2000s and I'm from Italy (which is a much smaller country than the US). We transitioned from city airports to out-of-the-way airports many years ago. In Rome, the main airport (Fiumicino Leonardo da Vinci) is about 30 miles from the city center. Traffic in Rome is a nightmare, but we have a fast train (it's not a bullet one) connecting the airport to the main city's train station. About 25 minute's ride, for 14 Euro cost each way. A similar solution for Milan, which transitioned from Linate (just outside the city) to Malpensa, pretty far from the city but again with a good public transportation system. We have also many more constraints than DC, such as relatively small cities with many inhabitants, mountains, sea, historic landmarks, etc. The metropolitan area of Rome has about 4 million people, while DC has 1 million and probably the size is about the same
One thing of note as a northern Virgina/DC native. Dulles already has its own access road for airport traffic only from Dulles to route 66 the problem is that once it feeds to 66 it goes from multiple lanes to just 2 lanes which causes a lot of traffic. So improvements can be made to 66. There's also a metro station so perhaps an express train from Dulles to DC would be nice.
The helicopter pilot took visual separation responsibility...the helicopter pilot mistook another plane as the approaching plane. Just watched a video on Captain Steeeve channel with radio discussions between the pilots and air traffic control.
Yes, but ATC knew something was wrong that's why he asked the helicopter twice if he had visual. ATC should of told them where the other plane was compared to them(the helicopter). When the helicopter pilot says he has visual, how does ATC know if he's got the right one? ATC error in opinion. And helicopter pilot error if he was above altitude.
@@Songer80 This is not an ATC error. Its purely pilot error on the helicopter. It's their responsibility under VFR to be situationally aware, he wasn't. He was too high by nearly twice his permitted altitude and not looking at the correct aircraft.
If the chopper was on visual and saw the one taking off we see clearly on the radar it was tragic. Why have military and commercial at this capitol airport, not have a seperate commercial airport outside the city, might mean more travel time for government officials but safer for aviation both military and commercial.
@@rorykeegan1895 They are called Air Traffic Control for a reason. Their are several layers of safety to make sure there are no collisions and ATC is one of them. ATC should of told the helicopter he was too high and also told him the plane was half a mile in front of him. ATC was partially responsible for the crash.
@@pinkpnth3r me I feel like hyena for watching every video but I think the thought process was the same around the world: unbelievable sadness and devastating in both cases! Also people I love fly a lot & one of them was always extremely nervous when he had to get on a small plane How about you?
my cousins best friend who was a rlly good figure scatter passed on this with several other girls and her mother. My cousin was terrified when she heard bless all family’s out there who lost loved ones❤❤😢😢
Congested airport or not, the air traffic control is managing the airport for commercial traffic. Why the Army is flying night training flights in a congested area is the big question. If you look upon with sober eyes it it was just a question of when an incident would happen. Maybe the ATC should have told the Helicopter that they are on collision course?
On the tower audio I heard the tower tell the helicopter twice that they were on the collision course and the helicopter pilot told the tower each time requested "visual separation", which once a military aircraft asks that, apparently, is the end of it. The helicopter pilot had responsibility at that point.
It would appear that goes without saying. All parties know they are in a collision course, and the audio suggests the helicopter pilots were either confused about what they were looking at or otherwise non compliant
@@clottadams5028helicopter pilot rose out of its 200 foot limit to 300 feet and veered into the plane. Watch BlancoLerio video not this guys agenda one.
The supervisor of that Blackhog training session should be reprimanded or demoted! It's a case of utter stupidity to allow pilot training in such a busy airspace!
My husband has been in aviation with the army for nearly 6 years. He’s done well over a hundred training flights and has a considerable amount of flight hours. I asked him about night vision goggles last night. He does more night training flights than during the day it seems, so he wears them very very often. He said now that he’s been wearing them for 6 years, it’s not as bad as people are making them sound. He’s adapted to them, but at first it was not easy at all. I just think that this gives some perspective to the whole thing. 1) night training flights happen nearly weekly, if not more than once a week (in our house at least) and 2) if this crew is as experienced as media is saying they are, I’d assume they are use to the night vision goggles as well. So I think it’s unlikely they played a huge role in this disaster. I mean realistically, If altitude was the issue, it’s not like the night vision goggles caused them to be 200 ft higher, or whatever they were, than they were suppose to be
I think they said it was a requalification so I do not think they were use to the night vision but also I think you are correct in the altitude part of this.
@ my husbands not home to 100% confirm but I will say that them requalifying does not mean they went a long time not doing it. They don’t do training flights because they want to most of the time. It’s my impression they have a checklist of things they need to train on monthly and for a certain number of hours. I’m sure I’m off on that a little bit but the jist of it is definitely correct
US forces use night to their advantage, hence extensive night training everywhere. In DC, it's partly for VIP transport, which can be any hour of the day, and also for continuity of government evacuation, which can also be anytime.
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the pix in pix is in the way, this time. also is distance of separation measured in knots???
a surface high speed train to the center of cities would probably be cheaper than a tunnel to airports.
and why we have yet to learn who flew the helos??????????/
You are just crap
@@yiannimil1 Concur. Maglev. Ask China how they did it. Don't be ashamed.
Incredibly brilliant ideas! The only problem I see are billionaires who would rather selfishly pocket tax dollars vs putting the dollars into practical solutions such as updating outdated systems and facilities that would truly make America 🇺🇸 Great for once! 💔
let them build it! probably cheaper and better nad faster. us glorify western capitalism and democratic values. BUT change the rules mid game... ie. Ussr, trade treaties with canada, mexico, china.
and products, steel, oil, gas, AI etc etc
The chopper hit the plane, not the other way around. Plane was IFR and had all rights of way. Stop saying the plane collided with the chopper.
Agreed. The Helo running VFR at night had the responsibility. The ATC being overworked may have an impact. I am not aware of ATC notifying the AA flight of cross traffic for awareness. I would think such a "courtesy" notification would be standard.
@@Mike80528 Even if he did, I don't see if there was anything the pilot could do at 400 about to land. Sad all the way around.
it almost looks like the helicopter rammed the plane on the CA screen.
the heli aimed into the plane at the last second.
@@rollingmancave4547 Helo rose above its 200 foot limit and veered westwards to hit the plane. ATC and Pilots of plane are not to blame.
Saw your comment and was about to point this out. The Black Hawk pilot took responsibility for separation and *was* responsible for separation, not the AE pilot. Moreover, it looks like the BH hit the plane on the side just aft of center, so again, helicopter hit plane not plane hit helicopter.
With many years in the military, this is how I understand this issue: There should be NO other aircraft ever, for any reason, having an "authorized" transiting route that crosses a commercial, stabilized landing corridor / pattern. PERIOD! Kind Regards, FMR Intelligence Officer
Appreciate your experience as an intel officer, however that doesn’t mean you have any qualifications or training that would allow you special insight into this mishap. As a retired military helicopter pilot and an evaluator for many, many aircraft commander checkrides, depending on location, I would have the other pilot transition through class B airspace as it would be a required skill and the process can be complicated.
@@davidfranklin1885 💯 it was only a matter of time. Unfortunately, it’s only a matter of time before we have another fatal runway incursion.
I thought I heard these choppers were for vips and vips don't wait on anyone.
You are 100% correct! Thanks for your service and sharing you insight on this tragic accident!
The helicopter was following an approved helicopter route that at the time of impact would have had them closer to the east bank of the Potomac, and at 200 ft or less. This would have been fine, but it looks like they may have drifted away from the east bank, and were at 300+ ft, if the radar I've seen is to be believed.
USMC Marine Aviator, here is what I see so far
CRJ had clearance was on short final exactly as announced and planned. They were just short of the runway on correct glide slope in full compliance with ATC and flight rules.
The Blackhawk was:
1. Above approved and regulated ceiling for that airspace by at least 100 feet. Not where they were supposed to be
2. ATC challenged them twice about the CRJ, Blackhawk stated they saw CRJ and were aware of it, they request visual flight separation (authorization to visually control their our separation from other aircraft). ATC allowed them visual flight separation control as they requested.
3. They had no ADS-B, TCAS or ACAS X collision avoidance equipment active (makes them stealthy and not responsive to collision avoidance systems)
4. They were using a call sign that suggested they had a VIP aboard, they did not.
5. They were using NVG's which complicated the entire situation, they narrow your vision and cause all kinds of light sensitivity and problems with depth perception.
6. They were supposedly doing training and check flight for the pilots in one of the busiest airports in the nation with crazy noise abatement flight rules at night!
It is not hard to see where the responsibility for this lies........ unlikely that the Blackhawk pilots did this intentionally so for whatever reason they were not situationally aware, were not ahead of the aircraft, made a series of serious mistakes, and caused a tragedy. The culture in that cockpit was fatal, what was the relationship between the pilots because as a team they failed and killed of people. That is the unfortunate truth.
And yet apparently the civilian flights are the problem and airspace should closed for them.
The unlikely I am not so sure about
Yeah. I have no problems with military training in certain areas. Real world training is invaluable.
Yet Trump essentially saying. "Thanks Obama" for this is hilariously sad .
Flight control tower people are notoriously over worked, and underpaid. An insanely stressful, and underappreciated job by the general public.
I'd have respect for Trump if he was like. Yeah we will pay people more, and give bigger budgets to hire more.
Yet of course he isn't. Already came up with conspiracy theories himself.
@auderus CRM is an issue, cockpit resource management would dictate, ONE of the chopper pilot should have said YOU'RE TOO HIGH! I've never flown with NV. The NV I've used was a NV rifle scope. Any light source made sighting impossible
Could you intentionally hit a plane with a helo? I'm not even sure it's possible but it's also hard to understand how they accidentally hit a plane on a mostly pre-determined path. Even if they didn't see the plane they put themselves in a known path.. a few feet to the east, a few feet lower, impossible to collide. Nothing in the tracking for the plane showed anything abnormal. Just doesn't make sense.
Authorities tell you, "Don't fly drones around airports or where aircraft are flying. It's against the law. " So they fly a huge helicopter right near the end of an active runway. Real smart. Someone is going to pay MILLIONS in lawsuits.
don't worry, you'll pay more in taxes
I hope. The families should sue for millions
The idiots whom approved this "training missions path" should be put in jail
@@EasyLivingDojo Agreed. Jail time is the only way to get accountability in this age of pass the buck to taxpayers. In fact, someone at the highest rung did not get any jail time...hmm, think of that!
that someone is all tax payers. I do agree on jail time for multiple chains of commands.
What makes this even more heartbreaking is how close the plane was to landing safely. Only a matter of seconds.
YUM
Even in tragedy ,basic cro-magnon specimens cannot control themselves
I hate flying and when I’m landing I’m telling myself it’s almost over. Can you imagine seeing the helicopter coming as a passenger? The terror
@@Hoocuspoocus that's what I was thinking 😭
@@jimsteinway695 They probably couldn't see it I think the blackhawk was flying at around 200mph towards them
Why, for the love of God, is the Army conducting dangerous training missions with limited sight equipment at night at a busy airport FILLED with CIVILIAN air traffic?! I'm appalled at how dangerous this was and find it incredibly irresponsible. There have been numerous near misses in this air space. It's just mind-boggling.
gotta protect the leaders of the syndicate at all cost. unfortunately we are collateral damage. they are the chosen its that simple friends!
The helicopter took responsibility for visual separation so it's avoidable human mistake.
When the ground knows exactly where all crafts are at all times I don't think any pilot should be allowed to be responsible about distance and safety based on own judgement. There are things like blind spots, distractions and misunderstanding.
It’s almost as if the Army, in protest of having a new Commander in Chief, had orders to cause complete loss of life, specifically someone who was on the oncoming commercial aircraft. I mean, it’s par for the course: The SS allowed a shooter with clear view of him at a rally.
Total Total buffoonery…..
It's not our services it's Trump's services he's playing against us
The real question is why the helicopter was allowed to cross the glide path of multiple passenger aircraft lined up on final approach. This is like a child trying to cross a busy highway. Pilots know that accidents are caused by a chain of events, and breaking one link in the chain can stop an accident. So it's likely that the chopper pilot was at fault, If that area was off limits to chopper traffic, there would be no accident.
Incompetence and stupidity.
Not the first close call either!
Best summation comment... no need to cross over by Helicopter... Zero
I was asking that myself. Planes to fly randomly - they use the glide path ...
Showing Ego of military personnel..
I lived in Old Town Alexandria during the 1980’s. Our townhouse (where many members of Congress from across the country have their residences in DC ) was directly under a flight route into DCA.
The first flight each morning was at 7:00 am and the last, around 11:00pm because of all the residences under it. It was LOUD and the planes were flying REALLY LOW. At night, when the lights in the plane were on, we could actually SEE the passengers heads in the windows. We lived in Old Town, VA and vividly remember Air Florida #90 that crashed into the 14th St. Bridge while taking off in Jan 1982. 78 people were killed. We were just a few miles away. That airport is SCARY- love your proposal for Dulles
I understand completely. I'm much younger than you, but I live not too far from there, just along the GW Parkway. I hear helicopters and planes flying overhead routinely, and on my commute I can see them over the Potomac arriving and departing from Reagan National Airport. This whole accident has me terrified. My mom has a job that frequently requires flying in and out of Reagan, and I don't want to find out on the news one morning that it was her.. I hope the issues with the airspace and traffic control are resolved and and accident like this never happens again, at least not for a long long time.
@ oh my- I’m so sorry you live with that fear💙. It’s a scary place to live. I used to commute every day up the George Washington parkway to Rockville MD- fortunately, I kind of went against traffic. My husband was the GM of a hotel in crystal city. We lovec living in DC- it was very exciting for us (even coming from NYC!). We used to walk from our townhouse to restaurants in old town and we’d see politicians. I ALWAYS tried to sit near and eavesdrop on their conversations. lol But they MUST do something about that airport and air traffic. It’s dangerous 💜💜
I live in Madison WI and for a number of years between like 2016 to 2020 I lived in an apartment that is right near Dane County Airport, but also near a military airstrip that is connected.. They fly their stupid Fighter Jet training missions at all hours of the day and night there and loved to blow their afterburners as they took off, which was so loud it would shake the windows and apartment as they took off, sometimes 4-5 times a day in pairs of 2. Sometimes at night.. but mostly we would have Blackhawks flying overhead at night that you couldn't hear until they were overhead and shaking your entire apartment too. I don't have much sympathy or love for the pilots who are doing training missions 24/7 and making civilians lives Heck.
Eventually of course after I moved out the fighter jets taking off stopped using their afterburners or whatever to be a bit quieter and waited until they were far out of the city to blow them, but i had to deal with that for years until the civilian population in one entire part of the City of Madison got fed up with it and said to the military 'wtf are you guys doing, people live here' There were so many no F-15 Jet signs everywhere for years.
Having cross traffic in any landing path is insane!
Fax
the exact cause of this crash
the controltower can not stop aircrafts if they unwilling to coperating
@@Oqab11 The helicopter was in breach of the 200 ft. altitude rule for helicopters.
@@marymurphy937 And it is so easy for an aircraft on final to be 100 feet low...
You ain't lying
Imagine being so close to home and seeing your family or arriving to your destination... and instead of your flight ending, your life ends. Imagine being family at the airport waiting for you to pick you up and see you. Absolutely horrifyingly SAD. 😭😭😭😭
all for some military clowns to play soldier. sad.
@@cat-le1hf They were likely ordered to do so by the largest master clown at the top.
😢😢😢
They are at least with god now and will be on their next adventure as we all will one day arrive at. But this is tragic incident and the families will be devastated
.30 seconds.
A girl named Brielle Beyer was in that plane, she went to my school. I personally did not know her but she was described as a great and loving friend. She was also a great figure skater. All that talent gone way too soon. You will be missed Brielle.
Condolences friend.
@Oilup-u3m Sorry for loss of your s school friend. So sad.
Such far-reaching loss… praying for your school community🙏🏽💔🙏🏽
The dad has reached out to our school that she was a warm and very nice girl. He also said she lit how the house when she sang songs and just enjoyed having a good time. Our map testing was cancelled Thursday and Friday due to the impact her passing has on her friends. They also brought a crisis team to my school to help out her friends. It is so weird for a student to be there Friday and die during the break. This is the first time I have experienced this so it will probably take me some time to get used to it.
Condolences.
I am an Australian that does not know the area but I do know about finding good off-beat solutions to problems, I spent 43 years at it. Your ideas strike me as ideal even better if it was possible to put above-ground rail lines in as it would be much cheaper. Good work keep it up and hope someone that counts listens.
The Dept of Transportation ignored 1200 recommendations by the FAA last year
Really tired of hearing people say "the plane hit the helicopter" when we all already KNOW the helicopter hit the plane. When the plane is approaching its runway as per control tower instructions, and the chopper is out of order nine ways to Sunday, it's just disingenuous to try to blame the plane pilots or anyone other than the people responsible for the chopper for the deaths the chopper caused.
Could be technical failure on the helo. We know the plane's pilot was not to blame, nor the ATC, but let's reserve judgement on the helo people until we know for sure.
I'm glad I don't have to be the one that puts his name on the report of this catastrophic collision
Sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. They both collided with each other and that's a fact that has nothing to do with blame or responsibility. (Or maybe I'm just an Englishman making the questionable assumption that Americans actually speak English)
@@stwadoo That is not true. The pilot was in the right the helicopter crew are to blame for this accident.
@bluschke52 Before you reply, perhaps read what you are responding to a little more carefully and maybe buy a dictionary.
Here is an idea: don't fly military helicopters within a final approach corridor. Crazy idea huh?
@@mastaluk5 She’s Army trained. Don’t blame her for her ignorance.
yup, no brainer this was an accident waiting to happen. And of course LGBT diversity issues made it far worse.....sheesh.
Military does whatever the hell they want, that's how this happened.
Exactly.
They have to fly these military operations there literally training to fly very important people out of the white house in the event of bad stuff happening. There literally are flying the route for that you can't practice that other places.
My childhood friend Jonathan Boyd and my brother’s childhood friend Mikey Stovall were on that flight. Absolutely tragic and heartbreaking.
SORRY FOR YOUR LOSE RIP LOTS OF PRAYERS
@@havok6927 ❤️.
🥺 hugs to you.
Oh so sorry for your loss. Prayers 🙏
Condolences brother
I'm not in the aviation field but from my maritime experience, vessels know whether they are on a collision course miles away.
Because you always have to keep a watch of all vessels within the vicinity.
Also, when a collision course is detected, by international safety conventions, vessels must alter their course/speed to get rid of that collision course.
Certain vessels have the right-of-way which must be respected.
There's also ship to ship communication on certain frequencies/channel to alert vessels of their potential collision course and usually the ship with the right-of-way would request that the other vessel change course/speed.
That action is continuously monitored to ensure compliance.
I believe that an aeroplane would have the right-of-way over a helicopter because a helicopter is much easier to manipulate (change its course, altitude and speed) irrespective of which is military.
When an aircraft is approaching an airport, it should be in contact with the control tower.
They would give clearance to enter that airspace.
This requires them to know a lot of information of that aircraft like its bearing, altitude, velocity/speed, coordinates, etc AND that of other aircrafts within the space, entering or leaving the airspace.
ATC = Air Traffic Control are supposed to be controlling the airspace around its tower, runaways.
Entering, leaving and operating within that airspace MUST be coordinated, controlled by them.
I was a Flight Attendant for a major carrier for 23 years. I've always been astounded that DCA was open to commercial traffic, especially when Dulles is so close. The sheer number of government, military and security interests in the immediate area around DCA needs to be re-evaluated. We no longer rely on horse and carriage to move between buildings, so it might be a good time to scatter some of the more critical HQs across the country and use our advanced technology to communicate in real time.
We also have the technology to solve, or at least mitigate against, the ground traffic congestion around DC. We just need the will to do it.
Well said
MATRIX AUTONOMY ? maybe 🤔
Look up. MITRE they do alot of flight pattern research for air traffic for the government in Tyson VA.
President Trump is in the process of getting parts of the justice system moved out of Washington DC.
@@KBeMaybe people already can ride the metro to Dulles and avoid all the traffic
You got something major wrong right at the start.
The helo collided with the plane. The helo also took the responsibility of maintaining visual separation, which they failed to do and as a result they flew into the aircraft coming in for a landing.
ATC should not have believed that the helo pilot did have a visual on the plane because they were too close. ATC SHOULD HAVE diverted the helo, not asked a second time if they had a visual on the plane.
You are right. ATC didn't ask if they had the plane in visual. Warned them of a plane coming on approach, didn't tell them which one. Helo asked for Visual Sep and everyone assumed it was a plane on runway 01 not this flight that was diverted to runway 33(which is NOT a visual approach runway). The flight was diverted to give another plane on runway 01 time to take off. This is either the ATC controllers fault for not taking charge of the situation and diverting the helo on a 090 bearing away from the approach area from the start and not even put them in that area or it's the helo pilots fault for not confirming visual on heading. It could also be the FAA that only requires one controller on duty in one of the busiest airspaces in the country and the controller was overwhelmed but honestly 3 flights lining up in a row to land, one taking off, and helo taking off is not that much of load to handle, then again we didn't hear other frequencies they were monitoring at the same time if they were. This is a lack communication and assumption. These 2 things are killers in aviation. This is going to have be investigated but someone is gonna get sued because somebody messed up.
@@MastinoNapoletano420my thought is bad communication is at fault. Like you said it seems there was an assumption and here we are.
That small jet was landing at shorter runway. Had one just ahead and behind the small jet. Can't believe helicopter why they didn't have transponder on.
@@MastinoNapoletano420Say what you want about ATC but the Army took full control and responsibility with visual separation clearly communicated to the tower. They then commenced to fly into the commercial aircraft that the Army had just acknowledged it was aware of. It’s been reported the Army pilots were wearing night vision equipment. Which under bright light conditions can actually hinder one’s vision. And there were plenty of bright lights all along the Potomac River that night! There really doesn’t appear that further investigation(s) are necessary. The Army is clearly 100% at fault.
@@MastinoNapoletano420 Incorrect, ATC confirmed at least twice that the helo had the approaching traffic in sight and authorized visual separation twice as well.
I've lived here since 1961 and there's one reason why National Airport was built there and is still there - that's the US Congress. Senators and Representatives will not give up their handy airport for anything. I remember when I was a kid and the Congress wanted to add more flights to National. The people who lived here begged them to keep the sound down by limiting the flights. The neighborhoods in Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, Fairfax, and all the others are PACKED with house and apartment dwellers that have to put up with it all, not to mention the sheer danger of being hit by an accident. Despite this they keep adding more and more flights, year after year. The Metro system now goes to Dulles so it might not be the fastest transportation but it is convenient and most people I know would be happy to use it for their flights. It's the Congress who wants the convenience of getting in and out of town quickly and who insist they can't be inconvenienced by being forced to go to Dulles.
@@mamiebobb4173 "Fast track to the capital act" increased the traffic to this airport.
Simply insane....having this kind of bumble bee nests. How did they dare???😢😮😮😮
I like your ideas. So well said. Thank you very much
Congress added 5 slots at DCA last year (they wanted 20+ more!)
summarized they are more important? cliff note version!
Very well covered and a great idea for a solution. Let's hope someone in power, someone with common sense, watches your videos. RIP to all who've lost their lives in this tragedy.
As a former Us Army Helicopter Pilot and flown in and out of the Pentagon ... Flight corridors for helicopter's, especially at night, demands maintaining a very specific altitude for a given heading. 150 feet above a required corridor attitude is a bust. All US Army Helicopter Pilots train in this type of high stress environment at Flight School.
@@robertbennett1287 so what do you think was the reason they didn't see it a blind spot maybe like in a car that's how 2 choppers crashed in Qld Australia
They're human. Some are good some not that good.
What percentage of Army helo pilots fly choppers for a living after the Army?
They usually don't use 33 in bound at night, let alone daytime.
Why do you think they were almost 200 feet higher than they were supposed to be? Wouldn’t they know they were at too high an altitude? Even if they didn’t see the other plane, if they were at the correct altitude they would not have collided.
A really dumb idea to have a training exercise in the most congested airspace in the country. That's common sense. A lot more to the story that we'll never know.
Americans. That's all the explanation we need.
@@noonespecial4171 it’s maneuvers need to be exercised in all conditions and scenarios. It’s absolutely nothing new it has been going on for decades and decades. This was human error a sad accident
You can blame America because were human, but you can’t blame America because we’re Americans
It wasn't an accident
I fly global for a living. I have for 15 years now. Since Covid, I now witness more incidences in a year than my entire career before. Cancelled and delayed flights, maintenance issues, oddball incidences such as minor failures, staff apathy and indifference, and flying has become a terrible experience. We sat 3 hours in Atlanta because there was no Gate Availability, and that’s happened multiple times flying international. I’ve had 4 flights this year taxi for take-off, and return to the gate to delay, cancel, or “Time-Out” on some vaguely explained issue. I am now willing to drive up to 14 hrs (highest available drive time in our policy) to avoid having to fly!
Edit: Thanks Everybody for engaging my comment. I enjoyed reading every input, idea, and discussion. It hurts most because as a boy I dreamed of a career that keep me in the Air, seeing new places! The Airport was a Magical Place for a Rural Mississippi Boy!!! I spent many hours dreaming I was checking in my luggage for the next journey. This Nation stopped Dreaming a while back.
@@kylestokes4501 agree. My Dad is a retired pilot, flew corporate G2, Lear for 30 yrs up and down Eastern corridor. He’s 87 now, sharp as a tack. He flew in the glory days 60’s-80s. His last flight as Chief Pilot was his last time on a plane - he refuses to fly now for all the reasons you stated. Therefore, we have had some epic road trips from NC-West Coast, not a bad thing if you have the time. I’ve flown a ton in my life (lucky to have Dad as pilot before he retired). It’s really awful now. After this, I’ve cancelled an upcoming trip until the dust settles.
@@gracefullstitcher4707I agree! I have only flown domestically the past 12 years, but the last couple years I’ve noticed more flight issues which would cause delays or even redirecting flights for another nearby airport! Delays in the past were primarily weather reasons. Now it’s functional issues or staff problems
@@kylestokes4501 the crazy part is that driving has also gotten worse since the start of Covid too. Before Covid blatant bad moves, such as running reds or creating turning lanes where there are none, were pretty rare. Now I expect to see it anytime I go out.
I've noticed this too. I keep thinking of the movie Idiocracy where the planes were just falling out of the sky because society has just gone to hell. 😢 It's so scary.
This is because of DEI. Airports and airlines are no longer hiring based on merit, but on race and gender. I knew this would happen when I first heard about it. Close calls, runway incursions, engines falling off planes...this is what DEI has gotten us. The President has put an end to these hiring practices so I'm hopeful that things will start to clear up. AFAIC, all diversity hires should be fired, and let the people who know what they're doing have the jobs,
The arrogance of military helicopter teams crossing glideslopes of incoming passenger jets at a busy airport even at night with a vertical and visual (!) separation of only about 200 feet is just insane. That's all.
The helicopter was commandeered remotely and flown straight into the airliner, please don't ignore the OBVIOUS.
Economist here- I can tell you why it’s a civilian airport even though your points are right on- because congresspeople want direct flights from their home states. Recently they had the airport’s radius increased so that more of them could have this convenience, despite a lot of people (including some other congresspeople) protesting because the airport was already such a safety risk. This is not partisan BTW, congress works together for their own interests much more than we think. Your idea makes a lot of sense but our system isn’t set up to prioritize safety the way most of us assume it is.
The sense of entitlement in our politicians increases with each re-election. You are correct that it's on all sides of the aisle and not a politics issue, but a personnel issue. Any employee who has sat in the same chair for years starts to get comfortable and want even MORE comforts/perks. We need Term Limits in all elected positions. This will also help when it comes to Lobbying because if the person you are lobbying keeps changing every (let's say two) terms, it's hard to become "entrenched" with them and able to persuade them to your cause. This would also limit the deep contacts a politician has when they leave office and turn around and begin lobbying on behalf of an entity that they were lobbied by for years.
@Sarafimm2 *YES.* I've always said that a politician's party isn't what incentivises corruption (not that it has zero influence), but it's mostly due to how safe their seat is.
solution is to move DC to kansas city with equal access to all.
It's disappointing how nobody is mentioning this very important factor. But why not include in the plan that politicians get direct flights because they're special, and keep them out of the civilian airport? I may be missing a few steps, with my rudimentary understanding of the issues involved, but I feel like they might vote for something like this. Could be worth it to improve safety for the people.
@@JuanSanchez-ik7wxhey hey... and to have a government of the people by the people instead of by aipac
I’m an old guy that used to fly into Washington National (before it was Reagan). Noise abatement required arriving jets to fly low along the river and make a pretty tight turn to land at DCA. Back in the 60s, as part of my studies in civil engineering, I took a course in airport design and it was stated that Dulles was constructed to replace Washington National, but political pressure forced Washington National to stay in service as it was so convenient for commuting.
Yeah that violates the "stabilized approach concept" which generally implies that on short final there should be no turns or change in power, just a gentle stabilized descent for last 4 to 500 ft. The crj could not see easily see an acft below and to the right because they were in a tight left descending turn. Ex army IP, civ ATP medical helicopter pilot 33 yrs 10000 hrs speaking
Who cares!!!
@@RicktheLemon Dulles is much safer.
Yes it seems like Dulles was built with no thought about getting people to and from it efficiently. Then traffic just got worse and worse. The underground train would be great but I don't know who's going to pay for that.
@@Todd-r6t You cared enough to reply
The airplane didn't collide with the helicopter. The helicopter collided with the airplane.
Isn't collide the neutral term for a phsical thing?
@@marnipratama6892 not as much when the helicopter requested to maintain visual seperation. It then became their duty to do so, which wasn't an easy task but it was their responsibility
You say "collide"
I say ran into intentionally
The Helicopter pilot was born male, but transgendered a few years ago. He/She had been posting a lot of anti Trump rhetoric on social media lately...
@@Dougie1969 why would 2 Blackhawk pilots run into a commercial plane intentionally? To take out retired Russian figure skaters?
About the Dulles vs. Dallas confusion.....I was walking towards the gates at Dulles one day many years ago (late 1980's). As I passed by the United desk, I saw a man and his wife who were very upset. I heard enough of the conversation to understand that they had just flown in from South Korea. They were intending to visit family in Dallas but there had been some confusion in Seoul when they booked their flights. Instead of being booked to Dallas, they were booked to Dulles. They were going to have to buy 2 one way tickets from Dulles to Dallas at the last minute, very expensive. I felt bad for them, it was an honest mistake and not hard to imagine how that could happen to someone who speaks English as a second language.
Ahhh the ole DIA IAD - DCA switcharooooo 😂 that’s why ATC changed the 3-letter ID years ago - controllers were giving the wrong crossing restrictions with IAD’s (DIA old ID) on top of altitude wise DCA’s
I do believe there are quite a few people over here who honestly don't know that Dulles is even there honestly.
Even living in the general area, it alips the mind until brought up or I have to go out there. It's DCA and BWI.
Dulles is "that" airport lol. You don't think about it until you have to, unless you live in its flight zone.
So many of my friends were on that plane, and all of them deserved to live. This could’ve been 100% avoided, but it still happened. I’m scarred for life and will probably need therapy. I’m so sorry for anyone who’s family or friend in the crash, and I hope we can prevent these things in the future.💔💔❤️🩹❤️🩹
Fly high my friends🕊️🕊️
@@Virgi-w1l I'm so sorry to that
So Sorry 😢
I’m sorry this has happened to you. Sending you love & light for healing. ❤️🩹 🌞💛
My prayers for you and this tragic lost and all the victims ❤️🩹🙏🏼✨
I'm very sorry for you loss this was an absolute AVOIDABLE tragedy. So sorry. To you and their families.
I’m a professional aviator, both military and civilian, transport category jet. I’m not going to speculate on the cause of this accident. But as a general comment, having a VFR flight lane cutting across final approach for a major airport like that is insane. Relying on visual separation at night with aircraft in such close proximity and so much background light pollution is also pretty sketchy.
If they’re going to insist on using that lane, or there’s no other option, aircraft using it should be advised of a potential requirement for extended holding clear of the RWY01/RWY33 final approach paths, and be held until there is a sufficiently large gap that aircraft can be separated laterally as well as vertically.
I live here and am a pilot (used to fly in and out of DCA before 9/11). There is no reason for that particular helicopter route. There are zillions of other possible routes over there.
@@cstacy Thank you. Exactly what I thought right away - don't mix the two.
Power overriding common sense. The lesson is reality doesn't care how special you are. Priority: Urgent: Unf**k this situation ASAP.
Blackhawk sabotage?
It came to my attention that a minimum of 4 people were meant to be onboard the Helicopter, to secure the safety in taking Visual separation responsibility. 2 crew Chiefs were meant to sit behind both pilots, to look out either side...this was clearly not done. I wish things were done properly, I'm sure it wasn't a lack of fundings but more due to a lack of neglect of securing correct and accurate levels of safety
So the Chopper was operating with night vision and a military grade radar system, and they didn't see the plane in front of them????
Happens, Ever been on a plane at night. Easy to lose objest in that enviroment.
City lights will also wash out night vision and also distorts range.
Chance are they were tracking the plane taking off thinking it was the plane the ATC warned them about. I'm pretty sure it will come out the blackhawk crew was at fault.
Just a terrible accident.
yeah this whole thing is weird as hell. the plane is not able to do much but the helos are maneuverable. how did they not see something right in front of them and on instruments? unless, did something interfere with their instruments? get shut off or scrambled like that plane in kajickstan that ruzzia wouldn't let land?
@jeff-ni5cy I agree, but those military aircraft are designed to pick up everything around them for miles around, and on top of it all, they were clearly out of their flight corridor, I believe they are restricted to 200 ft, but they were at around 350 ft...it just doesn't make sense that they didn't know a jet that big was right in front of them given the craft they were flying, regardless of the time of day or the outside lighting...I assume that they were trained for this type of exercise before being sent into commercial airspace?
@@christopherjones6802 I believe the night vision (if they were using it) would obstruct their vision even more. Also the incoming plane would have been to the helicopter pilot's left side. I believe they mistook the outgoing plane for the one control was talking about. They should have verified the tail number. Completely the heli's fault
They confirmed a plane , the one that was taking off not the one that was about to land.
1. Flight control did not specify to confirm visuals on the "landing craft"
2. The helicopter did not specify that it saw the "landing craft".
😢
Thank congress for voting down closing Regan International. They want convenience vs safety.
I'm a USAF vet. 🇺🇸 I worked downtown DC 14 years ( private sector) after I got out of Air Force... That airport is dangerous.
As a civilian, I was not aware just how narrow the airspace corridors were. You really have a thoughtful perspective and incredible suggestion that merits serious consideration. This video gives me goosebumps. Respect.
I’m an aviation medical examiner (doctor working with pilots), and the other cohort who are equally regulated, trained and ‘elite’ are Air Traffic Controllers. Only about 2% of yr population have the cognition to undertake their role, it’s a fascinating area of human performance. These guys do get overloaded, but not in this case - they had full situational awareness, but as requested, had handed-off the responsibility for collision-avoidance to the helicopter crew, essentially allowing them to go VFR. Except absolutely NOT, because ‘daylight’ and ‘minimum separations’ are inherent to VFR, night-vision or not.
Also, that’s an Apache not a black hawk, pictured around 5 min
Wow thank you different perspective x
Absolutely stunning comment, because that was not just a "mechanical" situation viewed from perspective of the physics. Two very complicated human activities along with many other complications surrounding that hectic environment is a pure recipe for disaster! Along the line of your professional perspective regarding the extreme challenges to the humans cognition and control - how does it stack for piloting a heli? I read some years ago that it is the most challenging coordination demand for humans brains?
@@dsmith5940 What is VFR?
so are you saying that Air Traffic Controllers shouldn't have allowed the chopper pilots to go VFR? Is it a clear violation of policy (daylight, etc), or a judgement call?
pat 25 is a blackhawk. ATC said "PAT25, traffic jsut south of the woodrow bridge, a CRJ..." Helo pilot replies with "PAT 25 HAS THE TRAFFIC IN SIGHT, REQUEST VISUAL SEPARATION" is his informing ATC he will manage visual separation FROM THE CRJ. ATC then says "visual separation approved" it is him saying he is taking responsibility for visual separation from the CRJ. He said he had it. He misspoke.
The chopper ran into the civilian plane, literally WTF
The plane didn't run into the copper
I wish the media would get this right
The Blackhawk pilot was wearing night vision goggles which reduces peripheral vision, so that could be the cause of him not seeing the commercial flight.
@@VaxxedStories That's not going to work. All three crew members looking exactly at the same spot? No. The copter was perpendicular to the airliner at only a slight degree off from 90. Nope, the goggles had nothing to do with this.
There has to be a reason every single one of these reporters are getting the details wrong, especially after watching the video. I literally had a troll hit my post on FB try to say different. Why would someone steal a profile, then troll for people who called out the bullshi? It's weird.
The media is paid for by Soros. But everyone knows they are lying so what's the point to continue??
The pilot was also white, I wish Trump would get it right before spreading DEI hatred
What a horrible year- hurricane and flooding, Key Bridge collapsing, LA burning and back to back plane crashes. 🙏❤️🇺🇸
Most major and busy airports like Ronald Reagan have helicopter routes with altitude restrictions that heli pilots must follow. In the area where the collision occurred the helicopter was following Route 1 and should have been at a max altitude of 200', not at 300-350', and closely hugging the east shore of the river, not in the middle of it. If the Army must do night training, they should fly between 12am and 4am when there is almost no commercial traffic.
How does that train them for a VIP transfer during normal night hours?
@@JohnnyMotel99 Dark is dark.
@@JohnnyMotel99 Oh, just play Russian roulette with incoming civil air traffic. Yup - what could go wrong?
@@JohnnyMotel99 You have a point there. But if I were a VIP I would never fly in a helicopter at night.
@@JohnnyMotel99they can train first and then fly in the congested area after.
question is why does everyone keep saying the plane collided with the helicopter when it's the other way around?
they always get everything wrong
The talking heads don't know and whoever wrote the first script didn't either. After that, they all copy each other without bothering to research.
Makes you question why do they spread this particular story not just the truth. But then what do we expect from MSM now!!!
They collided. Your point is meaningless.
At present, the facts are not fully known and there is still much evidence to gather. It seems to me that to say A hit B, or B hit A are presently unhelpful statements.
The most idiotic statements were those spewed out by the present occupant of the White House. What a fuktard.
It's sometimes better to keep one's mouth shut and let people think you're a twat, rather than open it and leave them in no doubt.
In Australia, we had two military helicopters in fatal night crash where the pilots were also using night goggles that distort distance perception - sounds like similar story.
I remeber, was SAS
I agree completely. They would auto gate the landing lights making the plane look farther a way than it was.
This is a known issue and SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED THEN. This is so stupid and unnecessary.
And what is a helo doing crossing glide slope altitude of AC on approach at a busy airport anyway!? Insane...
@@chris2790 yup, don’t forget the black hawk can be remote controlled. They were doing a show and tell a year who on the black hawk had remote control abilities.
I have a plane finder app on my phone that works better than visually looking
TY for your analysis of the DCA’s location in relation to the Pentagon, White House and the Capitol. I am not an engineer or by no means an expert in aviation, but what you said made sense. Would you consider presenting what you shared in this video to the FAA or the NTSB? So you can put your ideas into action ? Just something to think about.
I agree. Also I imagine these aren’t new ideas and probably get hit by political red tape.
Actual communication:
CT: "PAT25, do you have the CRJ in sight?" The air traffic controller then tells the helicopter pilot to "pass behind" the American Airlines jet.
The helicopter pilot checks in, saying that the plane is in sight and again requests "visual separation," which is granted.
Apparently, the helicopter pilot was looking at a departing airplane well ahead, so he was just about to pass behind it as instructed.
Now let’s imagine the traffic controller saying this: “PAT25, you have traffic at 11 o’clock. Do you have the airplane in sight?" Meaning it couldn’t be the departing plane. The outcome would have been completely different
@@elkaribbe Agreed, ATC could have said. CRJ landing on runway 3-3. The helicopter pilots would have known they were in the flight path and held.
Absolutely the helicopter’s and the vague command of the atc is totally at fault.
Yes, this is the most probable sequence of events. Although I know better than this and waiting for the NTSB preliminary is the smart comment. I'll bet this is exactly what happened!
@@elkaribbe My thoughts exactly. The controller was economical with words.
@@coreyv574The traffic was called 5-7 miles earlier and the Helicopter pilot said they see it and requested to proceed with the promise they won't hit it. The comment above is when the controller reached out a second time because he noticed that they were getting close. The pilot kept confirming that he saw the plane and the controller had no reason to question it since this is a very very routine thing across the flying community.
No flight knowledge at all, but I always assumed no aircraft was ever allowed to cross the axis of an airport runway at the same altitude as an approach glide slope.
@@AlecMacarthur correct, the chopper was too high
Alec, you are correct, the chopper was Southbound on path 4 which has a 200 ft altitude, hugging the East bank of the Potomac, to the Wilson Bridge. The altitude then rises to 300 ft. At the time of collision the chopper had risen to 300 ft several miles early, but also that ATC had rerouted the airliner to runway 33 creating an overlap with path 4.
A series of Several errors are almost always involved in these tragedies.
You are correct. ATC is ultimately responsible as "the boss of the airspace." ATC can deny any request for safety reasons, and is ultimately responsible. ATC inadvertently murdered sixty four souls by granting them clearance to land, and abrogating responsibility afterward. ATC controllers cannot see all air traffic just from the tower itself; they primarily rely on radar systems to monitor aircraft beyond visual range, meaning they see aircraft on a display screen rather than directly with their eyes, even when working from a tower.
Key points about ATC visibility:
Radar technology:
Controllers use secondary surveillance radar to track aircraft position, altitude, and identification, which allows them to monitor traffic far beyond what they can see visually from the tower.
Limited visual range:
While controllers can see aircraft close to the airport with their eyes, the radar system is crucial for managing traffic further out.
Display screens:
The radar information is displayed on specialized screens in the control tower, giving controllers a comprehensive picture of air traffic in their area. ATC is responsible to confirm compliance with their directives.
@@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi Utter rubbish. This was NOT the fault of ATC. Helicopter asked for visual approach so took responsibility for separation. ATC saw the potential issue which is why they asked the helicopter to confirm visual a second time. Helicopter reassured they saw the airplane twice while at the same time heading straight towards it. At the time ATC requested to take 33 the situation was completely in hand and the aircraft were nowhere near each other. ATC even gave a description of the airplane location well in advance and it looks like as soon as the helicopter caught visual of another aircraft further away, they ignored the details given to them. Watch any real account of this incident which includes tracking info and ATC/heli comms.
@@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi I believe you've got the wrong definition of 'murder'. So far, there is no indication that the ATC was committing any crime, let alone a felony, which would have to be committed during this tragedy for it to be considered a murder.
You make a very good point. It makes sense. I was shocked to see that the air traffic controller was alone and had to manage both military and civilian flights alone. Good work. Thanks for your details .
There was some politically driven chaos and upheaval of the ATC. Normally a controller can mind more than one aircraft but there is a limit even when things are normal.
He wasn't alone. He was the ATC for runway 33, there are 2 more for the other 2 runways.. There was also another controller in contact with the helo, and several other persons in the tower. There are several videos that explain better than this guy.
Unbelievable choice for one person to be in charge of that busy space….I agree with your thoughts just rework Dulles airport and keep Regan for military…good idea
That sounds scary, if this is normal practice
Does anyone know who was aboard the plane yet?
As a former H60 airframe mechanic stationed in a very active military and commercial flight area...... We had so much air traffic that you would need two people scanning 24 7 while flying small aircraft from the private pilots training facility on base. The first time I had an instructor take me on my first shake down ride he almost hit a h60 during a touch and go .... I remember him saying DAMN did you see him... I replied if you didn't see him I definitely did not see him ..... not sure that was the answer he was looking for. When you have 15 aircraft all in the same area that are cruzing at drastically different speeds and with delta class airspace all over your trying to avoid it can be absolutely overwhelming for a young individual learning how to fly.
THEY flew that chopper right into a passenger plane!!?
@@OneSon744 Exactly
Yes trump told us these were DEI hires. We must follow our leader mr trump. He will explain everything
@@johngreystone Traffic controller shortage due to D E I is why there was only 1 traffic controller instead of 2.
While looking at and saying they had another plane in sight.
@@johngreystone he said it could be the reason. He didn’t say it was the reason.
Helicopter hit the plane, the plane DID NOT hit the helicopter! FFS
"Collide with" does not imply fault or responsibility. If you run out in a busy street and get hit by a bus, the description of the accident will not be that you collided with a bus. Generally, the bigger or faster moving object is described as colliding with the smaller or slower moving object. Think of a train hitting an automobile on the tracks. Train collides with automobile. Automobile driver is at fault.
There’s no difference. They both collided
Yet, the media and government trying to spin it to look as if it were the air control people who did a bad job. The lies, the lies, the lies and manipulation.
@RandallBriggs-s2k no. The helicopter ran into the plane. If a pedestrian ran, as in running, into an ongoing bus, you would say that the "pedestrian ran into the bus", and not say "the bus ran over the pedestrian". In both of these instances, the lighter object had the capacity to miss the heavier object.
If the pedestrian was standing still for an extended period, then it would be the bus that hit the pedestrian. FFS
you're right. the blame must fall on the chopper. the chopper was still used for training, and made mistake on its altitude, crossed the busiest airport planes' route in the night / dark situation.
If the helo stays at 200 feet, the limit, this never happens. 😢
@@RDAmidwest exactly! Why did the blackjack appear to get as close as possible to the first 2 planes it met? Why did it gain 200' of elevation seconds before it crashed into the side of the plane?
We will never know!
What altitudes does the plane cross through in the last 30 seconds before landing? I’ll bet money that 200 feet is one of them.
@@Bitterrootbackroadsno, over the river they are always +300ft. Helicopter was at 350ft. 150ft above maximum ceiling for that path.
@@Bitterrootbackroads you don't have to bet that 200ft is in between cruise altitude and landing on a runway, of course it is because the plane will go through every alt number between ~1000 and rwy altitude when landing. Of course 200ft is basically 100-200ft from the lines so it would be even worse for the helicopter to be there than where it was.
True.. it may have been a crazy close near miss but if that 200 ft crosses exactly in that area it seems the plane would be about 3-4 while the heli at 2 the plane was on course. It seems the heli was a bit high which is all it took
@17:56 You are correct, San Diego is the busiest single runway airport in the world, however DCA rwy 01/19 is the busiest RUNWAY in the world. Back before regional jets, we used all the runways at DCA 04/22, 15/33 and 01/19 when Turbo Props ruled the commuter airlines. They quickly faded in the early 2000's and gave way to regional jets. Over time, the RJs stop accepting the off runways at DCA and had to be blended in with the major Airlines on 01/19. Even today, its very hard to get an RJ to accept on off runway at DCA unless the wind is just right (such as in the horrific accident a few nights ago). The winds were out of the NW at 15 gusting to 20 or 25 kts basically right down runway 33. So Bluestreak accepted the circle to land runway 33. Anyway back to my story, with all the turboprops that are now RJ's DCA is basically a single runway airport with maybe a few operations an hour on the off runways because jets like long runway so they almost always one the longest one. Runway 01/19 is 7169 feet long, runway 15/33 is 5204 feet long.
Spent 17 yrs, after retiring from the Navy, working at the Atlantic Test Ranges on board NAS Pax so I can certainly attest to the abundance of air traffic all around the Potomac/Chesapeake area. I was involved in several post mishap reclamation efforts. I agree 100% that civilian/military should not share the same airspace due to the extreme differences in communication and navigation equipment and procedures. Close DCA to civilian air traffic NOW...before this happens again. Nice work, TwoBit.
It's opinions like yours which I rely on in horrific situations like this because its your experience that tells a great deal. Newscasters are just talking heads, no pun intended.
Perhaps it should be that the military that curbs its operations. The evidence suggests strongly that it was the helicopter that flew into an airliner. Further mitigation might be achieved if training of helicopter pilots takes place well away from civilian airports and associated air traffic corridors during the hours of darkness. When the Air traffic controller asked the helicopter pilot could see the CRJ and he replied yes there is not any confirmation that they knew what the other was making strict reference to. If the air traffic controller had said ‘do you see the CRJ at your eleven clock, closing fast on your immediate heading and altitude? suggest immediate left turn” then events might have led to a happier outcome. That said, it was not the air traffic controller’s responsibility, after the helicopter pilot had asked and had received permission to fly visual.
No you have it wrong, the military aircraft was the one at total fault here. It's the MILITARY which should not be using very congested airspace like this.
@joe2mercs You're absolutely correct friend...the chopper struck the commercial liner...that's why advocates are speaking out for routing ALL commercial flights through Dulles and restricting DCA to military ops.
@Wasserkaktus please pay attention and try to keep up friend...noone is disputing that the chopper struck the airliner...the issue is that they don't need 2 commercial airports in such close proximity...route ALL commercial flights through Dulles and restrict DCA to the military. And yes, it makes perfect since to have the military in close proximity to the Capitol center.
I live about 50 miles from EVV it’s a small regional airport. On February 6,1992 a C-130 Military Cargo Plane crashed near the airport during a training mission. It crashed into a Drury Inn and the attached restaurant named Jo Jo’s. There were 5 military and 11 civilians on the ground killed in that accident. The military would use the airport for “Touch and Go” maneuvers. The plane stalled at 1300 feet and went nose first straight into the crash site.There was Public outrage over using a civilian airport for dangerous military training maneuvers. The airport was just on the edge over a city of 150,000 people. The military no longer uses that airport for training. It’s eerie that February 6 is next week.
@@marydauby5229 I lived near Evansville at the time in Owensboro Ky and I remember this accident very well.
Helicopter is 100% at fault. Facts are facts.
ATC is ultimately responsible as "the boss of the airspace." ATC can deny any request for safety reasons, and is ultimately responsible. ATC inadvertently murdered sixty four souls by granting them clearance to land, and abrogating responsibility afterward. ATC controllers cannot see all air traffic just from the tower itself; they primarily rely on radar systems to monitor aircraft beyond visual range, meaning they see aircraft on a display screen rather than directly with their eyes, even when working from a tower.
Key points about ATC visibility:
Radar technology:
Controllers use secondary surveillance radar to track aircraft position, altitude, and identification, which allows them to monitor traffic far beyond what they can see visually from the tower.
Limited visual range:
While controllers can see aircraft close to the airport with their eyes, the radar system is crucial for managing traffic further out.
Display screens:
The radar information is displayed on specialized screens in the control tower, giving controllers a comprehensive picture of air traffic in their area. ATC is responsible to confirm compliance with their directives.
The plane was told to change the lane from 5 to 33! Within a minute of hitting them. That would mean the plane went into the lane of the helicopter. 😢
@@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi ATC should have no reason to deny a request for them to use visual separation, all the training pilots go through with phraseology, requesting visual separation regardless of wether or not they saw the plane that they ended up colliding with, takes the responsibility out of ATCs hands
ATC gave all the instructions and positions necessary for the helicopter pilot to avoid problems. The only other way they would do was if they would have remote override controls. As things like that are sci-fy stuff we either have trust in training or more restricted scenary.
Trust in training of military heli pilots is gone now.
Seems that Ricky suggestion is the way to go.
it could have been intentional. whens the last time any type of accident occurred over the Potomoc 3 miles from the White House? 1982? thats a pretty good record of safety. No need for spontaneous irrational changes@gesilsampaioamarantesegund6692
You show an apache, when talking about a Blackhawk.
As incredibly tragic as this is, I can’t help but think of how the collision happened over the water. Every time I drive into DC from the south there’s planes flying directly over the bridge/city streets/pedestrians, landing or taking off, and I can’t even imagine what it would have been like if the plane and helicopter landed on any of the roadways
@@mkxv right !!!
Preplanned ?
43 years ago a plane did crash into the 14th St Bridge and then into the Potomac. That crash also happened in January. There were fatalities on the bridge and the plane. I remember watching the rescue operations on TV. The cause was pilot error and weather-- ice had formed on the wings.
@@victoriagray7491I remember that as well. When I heard of this accident in the Potomic River
@@mariebrowne418of course not!
As a naturalized US Citizen, I am embarrassed of this country, the state of it's infrastructure, healthcare.. it all leads back to money in everything, including politics.
tf is a naturalized us citizen?
Go back to whatever classless, moneyless utopia with free healthcare you escaped.
@@chonkychungus He was born elsewhere and BECAME one. That hard to understand?
It will get better rapidly we have real leadership now
@thoughtvirus9854 it's been that way since this country was started, what rock do you live under 😂
It's crazy how busy this airport is. Military traffic should be elsewhere
Why? Military aircraft operate in all airspaces. They must be proficient in flying in those controlled airspaces. Please think before posting stupidity!
@@kiotee_nouw Requesting visual separation at night while busting the altitude and flying into a passenger plane on short final is "proficient" ?? OK. Military and civilian spaces should be separated, like they are in other parts of the country. I disagree with OP that military traffic should move, though, it sounds like it's the civilian traffic that needs to get out of the heart of DC.
@@kiotee_nouw From an outside observer, the claim of stupidity seems reversed.
It's training n it happens all the time
The claim of stupidity still stands. The military owns the sky's and SHOULD be proficiency in flying in crowded airspace. This is the whole point of the video.
I live in Arlington, have lived in Northern Virginia all my life, and have a wife who flies out of DCA regularly. There is absolutely no reason to shut down the airport, or even restrict it to military use. This only the first accident at this airport since the Air Florida Flight 90 incident in 1982. That's 43 years. And this happened because the military helicopter did not abide by the rules and flew well above the altitude ceiling. This was an issue of either the helicopter's altimeter giving the wrong altitude or the helicopter pilots being confused/distracted. I don't think we need to shut down or change anything beyond understanding why the helicopter pilots did not follow the rules and taking steps to prevent that from happening again. Maybe an argument could be made that there are too many flights in/out of DCA or that the tower is understaffed/unprepared, but shutting down the airport is a bad idea.
The helicopter crashed into the aeroplane on it's right of way and perfect course to landing the aircraft! Please get it right!
Using stock footage of an Apache talking about a Blackhawk is more annoying to me than it should be.
Bro -_-
That's why I'm here. Thank you. And telling me a horrible tragedy is worse than you think? I think it's very bad. Duh.
100%
That's that DEI-level quality control I guess. Good thing he's not a pilot anymore, according to the co-POTUS. Though he's stone cold shillin' for Elon's BoringCo., so maybe they'll give him a pass? He could be "Chief Executive of Thanks For All The Favors", at the FAA... as long as he signs the loyalty pledge.
Its weirdly equivalent because the weights are basically the same.
I've been a privet pilot since 1978 and controlled air space scares me. I can't believe that the military conducts training flights in such high traffic air space, under and around high traffic controlled air space,,,,, an accident waiting to happen. I do appreciate your analysis of the situation and the fact that you propose a logical and viable solution to the situation which incorporates existing infrastructure to support the solution.
private.
@@linanicolia1363 we knew that. Its fine.
Simply put ..they should not be in the area. period no analysis needed
I saw a comment that said training flights are NOT done around DCA. They also said all pilots were very experienced. Not quite true. Relatively low hours and the pilot flying had not been flying for a year or so while she was an aide to the White House.
Are people just commenting on this video wanting to pitch in their two cents without actually having watched it? It's pretty insane why this civilian airport is where it is, regardless of recent events
The helicopter was obviously in the wrong. Not paying attention to their situation.
Yes, but ATC have ultimate control over the airspace. Failure to command their airspace can only be excused if the helicopter ignored their commands. If there was no command or unclear command was given, ATC is ultimately responsible.
And flying too high. We'll over 200' limit.
100% on FAA policy IMHO.
1. One controller on duty should never happen.
2. A secondary aircraft crossing arrival and departure space should never happen.
DEI hires in control towers should never happen.
Not DEI. It was intentional. Blackhawk was trying to hit planes. DEI is so you blame dumb people and not the corrupt people.
@@questioneverything9535 on queue, blame it on a black air traffic controller.
Wouldn't have mattered... the controllers control "sectors" or pieces of pie around the airport. There still would have been only one person controlling that approach area.
@@questioneverything9535What exactly is a DEI hire? Do you mean only white people should have jobs?
I have flown into DCA for the military and a civilian all my long life. I agree with all your observations and with your suggestion for a resolution. God help the families affected by this catastrophe.
God help the army, when the litigation gets going.
@@john1703I know ❤
Agree. And BWI is another nearby airport that could take on additional flights, too.
The God has a lot of work in another part of the world, you aren't alone and the most important.
We travel to WDC about twice a year. We fly into BWI, take the Mark train into Union Station, then directly onto the Metro.
Totally agree with you to designate the two airports separately, the commercial and the governmental.
One report was that members of congress had put pressure on these airlines to ADD flights to Regan/National so they could do non-stop flights back to their home districts (including this one to Kansas). The airlines did not want to because the airport is so busy but still added the flight. Second report was that there was only ONE Air Traffic Controller on duty when two is the normal minimum. Finally Night Vision I have seen makes everything monochromatic green/black and not color. The red/green/white marker lights are there to give some clue as to the direction of other aircraft which would be filtered out with the night vision, especially is such a massivly busy are with thousand of lights.
Landing at Regan/National was wild even 40 years ago as it looks like you are landing on the river, then suddenly the runway is there.
@macBailey
Air traffic control does not state that 2 controllers are a minimum it all depends on how busy it is and depends on who is leaving and going .
There are other airports with a lot more traffic than DCA. There is nothing wild about flying over the river. MDW is in the middle of Chicago with 6000 ft runways.
Suggesting staff shortage suggests ATC were so overworked that they didn't see the potential issue. They did, and its why they asked the helicopter pilot to confirm a second time that they had visual of airplane.
@@MacBailey you are either incorrect or purposely lying. What's your agenda?
@@tonyhawk123 Why didn't ATC remark to helicopter pilot about his altitude?
CAN ANYBODY ANSWER THIS ? JUST THE BIG QUESTION. EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE IGNORING OR AVOIDING THIS QUESTION ! THIS IS TERRIBLE....What strikes me hard is this : (QUESTIONS) WHY would an helicopter (army or not) be allowed to fly against the incoming traffic ? This is absolutely contrary to all elementary rules concerning airports traffic. WHY is this ? WHY was that helicopter allowed to fly in a direction opposite to the incoming traffic ?The cause of the collision is here. Noboby speaks about this. Can you clairify, please ? Thank you.
Because if it had been at the proper altitude. It would have been in it's air lane. Two aircraft flying at two different altitudes is fine. There is plenty of space up there. And. These routes are planned. LOTS of heads came together to plan these routes and safe altitudes and hard ceilings. Not to mention. It is the captain's responsibility to slow or divert if things do not look safe.
Yet , they’ve been following this procedure for years Had recent near misses. A plane cannot change direction , position as easily or quickly as a helicopter, so they don’t belong together
If the blackhawk looked like it was coming or going to the airport, I would agree with you, but it wasn't. The helicopter was following the river, as helicopters often do, and the river just happens to wrap around the airport.
I like it how we’re discussing a Blackhawk and the video shows an Apache helicopter. 😅
The helicopter pilot is the guilty party .Wrong altitude and night vision googles having a blind spot.
21:08 What's crazy is I'm looking at this flight path and realizing that I've been aboard a plane that had to do this. It was Delta. I was very confused. We were about to land in DCA, then the pilot turned back and did a huge loop for seemingly no reason. We landed on the 2nd attempt. I'm just putting this together LOL. I fly regional jets in & out of DCA all the time for work. I could have been on that flight. Scary stuff.
That's called a go around. Where a plane doesn't land but goes around to try again.
A go around is when a pilot decides to try landing again happens for numerous reasons. Not unknown.
People in congress want “ convenience”. They were warned about how dangerous this situation was and approved more flights into DCA.
Sir, it's not just congressman. DCA is ideal for single moms with 2 or 5 kids, elders, budget travelers, newbies (like college students in DC), and others who value the convenience of flying in and out of the DCA area. I attended Gallaudet University in DC, and DCA has always been my go-to airport. Let's shut down the copper routes for good.
I don't see how the helicopter's view was not compromised. The weather was clear, both aircraft were at the same altitude so no one was looking at the ground and the helicopter's airspeed could have been anything right down to zero. It was absolutely a failure of the helicopter pilot. Not ATC and certainly not the civilian plane. Almost all airports have hazards...if we were to close every airport which has hazards we'd close down almost all the airports.
Hearing the report that the BH pilots were wearing NVG (night vision goggles) as a training exercise, I can guarantee those caused this issue.. I have used them a bunch, and they are difficult to see out of for many different reasons, especially with all the other lights around the area, when there is any other light source it blows out your vision and makes everything super illuminated.. And they would struggle to maintain proper use of their gauges as well..
They were using Gen 3 night vision goggles. These greatly limit peripheral vision. Many mistakes were made by the Blackhawk pilots.
From the last radar traces the Blackhawk was at 300ft (100ft above the maximum corridor height) and climbing just before the crash - BIG question WHY - other question is why is there a helicopter corridor so close to an active and very congested airspace around this airport
Honest assessment of your own flight skills. Not everyone is cut out to be a pilot. Clearly, you are smart enough, but the liability risks make it a challenge for you. This disclosure make me trust you more 2b!
They're leaving out a CRITICAL piece of information that almost proves the collision was deliberate. The helicopter was at 200ft for MOST of it's flight. It SUDDENLY decided to rise to almost 400ft when the airliner was near enough to cause a collision. That sounds DELIBERATE unless you believe in a 1 in 1000 chance of that happening by accident.
Equipment failure?
Yep
I'm a US Army veteran with experience in air load planning on rotary wing, as well several generations of night vision (NVGs, NODs, etc) while training airload ops at night. I lost count of how many helicopter flights I've been on. The DoD is relentless with regards to safety. As much as I hate to admit it, I wouldn't doubt it if we discover the flight crew was "hotdogging" during their likely routine training mission.
That airliner would be highly visible when seen through an NV system. I frequently capped my NVGs to limit ambient light when working on the flight line because NV makes even the dimmest light appear as spotlights. Even a single aircraft can illuminate a flight line. I just can't understand how the Blackhawk crew didn't see an aircraft with gear down directly in front of them, because nose gear includes a spotlight for take off & landing. I genuinely hope I'm wrong, but I've watched heli pilots pull some incredibly dangerous stunts for clout.
What is "hotdogging" mean?
@@williamwade3443 showing off
Remember the plane that snagged the cable of a cable car in Italy? Where they said afterwards that the cable car (which had been there for decades) wasn’t on their map? Meanwhile the inhabitants of the valley were constantly complaining that the Americans were flying so low the cows lost their milk for the fright. What likely happened was that flying under the cable was a sort of fun stunt. People, even very highly trained military officers, can be incredibly stupid.
@@williamwade3443 Dare game, u know
@@annafdd I remember that stuff.
For 26 years as a Washington based airline Captain I flew out of Reagan National (DCA) and Washington Dulles (years ago I learned to say Washington Dulles so no one thinks I'm saying Dallas), roughly 1500 to 2000 take-offs and landings at DCA.
First, after 9/11 the reason Reagan reminded open was because Congressmen do NOT fly private, they fly commercial. Congress kept Reagan open in 2001, and Congress will keep Reagan open in the future.
Second, in 2010 Washington Dulles opened its underground AeroTrain to move passengers from the main terminal to outlying terminals.
Third, the helicopter callsign was PAT25. PAT (Priority Air Transport). PAT aircraft are used to ferry VIP's. Millions of everyday citizens use Reagan every year. Why should those citizens be denied the convenience of Reagan Airport so a very few spoiled government bureaucrats can receive VIP treatment that they do NOT deserve. Note, NO Army tactical war type training occurs going up and down the Potomac River.
There are designated areas for Army helicopter tactical training.
Fourth, a knot is a unit of speed. You referred to it as a unit of distance.
Fifth, if DCA were given over to the military the high-speed rail you described would never be built, and the Army PAT (Priority Air Transport) would be given a new responsibility, flying Congressmen from Dulles to downtown Washington. The public would be stuck, massively inconvenienced by the terrible highway system surrounding DC.
Sixth, I am a little suspicious you are being paid to promote the idea that the military should have exclusive use of Reagan and its associated airspace, so, a new government pert would be created for Congress, and, as I said before, the public would be stuck with archaic transport from Dulles to downtown.
@@DC9Rob i love and agree with this response
@@rochelledavid8679 What he said.
I feel like this guy doesn't even know what he's talking about. at 6:29 he says the helicopter may have mistaken the plane taking off but that one was way out of their way and behind the helicopter
Thank you! For the first time, someone disagreed with this blogger about moving DCA to Dulles. NEVER! I have so many memories associated with DCA. It was where I first attended college in DC (Gallaudet University). It was convenient for avoiding traffic-imagine my first time visiting DC as a college student in 1987! I began to appreciate the convenience of flying in and out of DCA during my second year of college and for many years thereafter. Yes, I learned about the Beltway a few months after starting college in DC, and navigating it can be tough, especially when planning getaway trips. Military considerations are always secondary; civilians come first. Just imagine a single mom with 2 or 4 kids, elders, budget travelers, and newbies (like me in my first year of college) who need the convenience of flying in and out of DCA.
^edited
These two aircraft heading towards each other were approaching each other at the least 600 feet per second. By the time they both saw trouble there wasn't enough time to react. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this. Think about this, it is night and they are approaching each other at a distance of at least 600 feet per second. Damn .
I feel the only one that can see this happening is the controller, they should have relayed plane was at 12 o'clock to them and alerted potential collision. Asking "Do you have a visual", is a basic question and it relays no info or warning to them. Or maybe even answer "request for separation" should have been denied?
I'm a retired Airline Pilot and I used to fly in and out of that place all the time and I always remembered Military Helicopters flying low along the east bank of the river. I never thought much of it until now.
@@gregj831 The Swiss cheese model says the holes need to line up. Thank goodness they never did on the days you flew.
Flying LOW along the Potomac is the key to your statement. This Helo was above it's limit in altitude with three pilots on board or at least two and not one of them realized they were above their altitude and flying directly into a flight path of a landing commercial plane? It's landing lights were on so how do you miss that lit up beacon?
@@snahg2356 Any distraction can cause you lose of gain 100’ like looking outside and fixating on the wrong aircraft. VFR, night, crowded airspace, NVG, all speculation until the investigation is complete.
@@snahg2356 They probably were playing the game called "Dare" stuff
One of the brutal political challenges we’d face in de-civilianizing Reagan is that CONGRESS, the Senate in particular, really really wants and fiercely lobbies for MORE traffic at Reagan, mostly direct flights to their home districts. They want nothing to do with Beltway traffic, and are pretty attached to their convenience and privileges. Furthermore they’re not all that interested in funding major infrastructure projects, particularly in the Trump Administration. And the hostility in Congress to high speed and commuter rail, public transit in general, is truly astonishing.
My heart goes out to the families of the victims of this horrific tragedy. My heart is breaking. These were children, and their coaches, and the others coming home from their work commitments. These beautiful souls may they rest in heaven, praying and sincere condolences to their families.
@@lynnevanvorce7727 This 🫶
❤️💔 Absolutely tragic x
Unfortunate victims of the abject stupidity of the military, and totally unnecessary. No justice in this life for those poor airline passengers and crew.
As an amateur figure skater this feels personal to me. Reading the stories of these talented young figure skaters, their coaches, and the families that have been torn apart by this tragedy has been utterly heartbreaking. I read that one of the skaters was travelling with both parents while his sister was at college and can't even imagine what she must be going through right now. I hope the various agencies involved will make the necessary changes to avoid an incident like this ever happening again.
@@maugre316 Well said. All lives are precious, and the loss of figure skaters is an additional layer of horror in this horrifying tragedy.
The Training of US Army Helicopter Site Shouldn't be on that Site.😞
Why was the Blackhawk helicopter flying at 4 00 feet when they are not permitted to fly above 200 ft in that airspace area?
I saw a comment where there’s a bridge on the helicopters flight path as a landmark and they think the helicopter mistook another bridge sp they weren’t where they thought they were
Stop the helicopter rides!
Why do these politicians have to have their own private helicopter/taxi to the airport?
Let them take the subway from Capitol Hill to Dulles, like the rest of us.
There was no politician onboard the helicopter, as has been stated in the video and in comments.
It's generals and admirals.
Generally I agree, but this was a training flight.
Military! Any idea what that word means?
Our politicians and government employed are a top to bottom crime gang . Plain and simple..
The heli flew straight into that plane and elites were watching
Possibly...😢
So, the heli is ultimately completely at fault. When accepting a traffic in sight call and pass behind instructions, it completely puts the responsibility on the pilots of the heli to avoid. My sincerest condolences to the families and loved ones. You have some great ideas to keep the busiest airspace in the nation more separated. And it would make sense to reserve Reagan for military and diplomatic flights.
The worst part is I knew this was going to happen and tried to tell people and warn people days before, but it fell on deaf ears! And the close call 24 hours before of almost the exact same scenario and still nobody took precautions or did anything like add another ATC! When is the Army going to own up to this and pay restitution to the victims families?
@@randomexploring541 on what authority would your warnings be listened to? Are you an ATC or in aviation?
The American Eagle flight was not banking when hit. It had completed its final turn and was on a straight in final approach.
No, look at the latest and cl9ser videi, it was,still banking to the left aligning fir the runway
Is it possible that the jet did see the helicopter coming towards them and was trying to get out of the BH's way, but it was too late?
@@Laurelberninteriorsi think the plane would have seen the helo but not vice versa just because of the way their paths intersected..helo was moving from south east to north west while the plane came from south west . Helo pilots were probably focusing on the 2nd jet you see in the video (which was taking off just ahead) in the north easterly direction plus they were wearing nvg which reduces your peripheral vision.
As far as the jet is concerned, the pilots would have seen the helo just a sec or two before impact..too little time to manouevre a jet that size.
@@akshayaman750 doesn't make sense for helo pilot to focus attention on plane taking off away from them and not toward helo. Hopefully helo pilot was not suicidal.
Never thought that deeply about it but every time i have flown into DCA i’ve thought, “I can’t believe they let all these planes get so close to all the monuments, Pentagon, etc. You have a great vision. Thanks.
Why is is this NOT suicide? The Blackhawk pilot was clearly warned of the the regional jet 30 seconds before impact, the night was so clear that cameras miles away were able to capture the aircraft course and collision, the Blackhawk was flying 200 feet above the maximum altitude it should have been flying, and we know now that the Blackhawk had veered off course. And finally, the pilot was a very experienced pilot with more than a 1,000 hours of flight time. Everything about this collision is beginning to look very intentional to me. As crazy as it sounds, they should investigate this as a possible suicide. Instead of asking questions, the air traffic controller should have instructed and demanded that the Blackhawk pilot change its flight path; for example, BANK LEFT!!!, BANK RIGHT!!! PULL UP!!!, or DIVE!!! Had he done so, there might have been a different outcome. Unless, this was suicide! Also, with all the flight experience this pilot had, he absolutely should have known that they were entering a flightpath corridor dedicated to commercial aircraft landing at that airport. I also find it interesting that the pilot confirmed that he had a visual on an aircraft, but if he mistook which aircraft, the pilot missed the aircraft that was right in front of him. Given the clear night that it was, it makes no sense to me that he could miss a well-lit aircraft right in front of him. Sad, but may be true!
I think that your solution to the problem is one of the most practical that I have heard of. When you have aircraft flying in such close proximity to each other, it is a recipe for disaster, which is exactly what happened. My heart goes out to all the victims of the crash. Just from your explanation of how traffic is routed in and out of DCA, I can see an immediate problem that exist. Thank you very much for your commentary and God bless.
@@jameswikstrom4174 Me right-pal Jonny Cakes was in flight .Spread your wings cakeo. Fly so high, friendo 😭
I have lived in the US since the early 2000s and I'm from Italy (which is a much smaller country than the US). We transitioned from city airports to out-of-the-way airports many years ago. In Rome, the main airport (Fiumicino Leonardo da Vinci) is about 30 miles from the city center. Traffic in Rome is a nightmare, but we have a fast train (it's not a bullet one) connecting the airport to the main city's train station. About 25 minute's ride, for 14 Euro cost each way. A similar solution for Milan, which transitioned from Linate (just outside the city) to Malpensa, pretty far from the city but again with a good public transportation system. We have also many more constraints than DC, such as relatively small cities with many inhabitants, mountains, sea, historic landmarks, etc.
The metropolitan area of Rome has about 4 million people, while DC has 1 million and probably the size is about the same
Thank you for your perspective on this matter. Gives me more clarity.
One thing of note as a northern Virgina/DC native. Dulles already has its own access road for airport traffic only from Dulles to route 66 the problem is that once it feeds to 66 it goes from multiple lanes to just 2 lanes which causes a lot of traffic. So improvements can be made to 66. There's also a metro station so perhaps an express train from Dulles to DC would be nice.
The helicopter pilot took visual separation responsibility...the helicopter pilot mistook another plane as the approaching plane. Just watched a video on Captain Steeeve channel with radio discussions between the pilots and air traffic control.
Yes, but ATC knew something was wrong that's why he asked the helicopter twice if he had visual. ATC should of told them where the other plane was compared to them(the helicopter). When the helicopter pilot says he has visual, how does ATC know if he's got the right one? ATC error in opinion. And helicopter pilot error if he was above altitude.
@@Songer80 This is not an ATC error. Its purely pilot error on the helicopter. It's their responsibility under VFR to be situationally aware, he wasn't. He was too high by nearly twice his permitted altitude and not looking at the correct aircraft.
If the chopper was on visual and saw the one taking off we see clearly on the radar it was tragic. Why have military and commercial at this capitol airport, not have a seperate commercial airport outside the city, might mean more travel time for government officials but safer for aviation both military and commercial.
@@rorykeegan1895 They are called Air Traffic Control for a reason. Their are several layers of safety to make sure there are no collisions and ATC is one of them. ATC should of told the helicopter he was too high and also told him the plane was half a mile in front of him. ATC was partially responsible for the crash.
CS's channel is great!
Who’s here after Philly plane crash?
@@pinkpnth3r me
I feel like hyena for watching every video but I think the thought process was the same around the world: unbelievable sadness and devastating in both cases!
Also people I love fly a lot & one of them was always extremely nervous when he had to get on a small plane
How about you?
You think there’s something deep going on
@@elvecinodeltio5960 thats what im trying to figrue out..
Pilots getting nervous or what??
@ thats what ive been thinking but idk it just feels off
my cousins best friend who was a rlly good figure scatter passed on this with several other girls and her mother. My cousin was terrified when she heard bless all family’s out there who lost loved ones❤❤😢😢
Congested airport or not, the air traffic control is managing the airport for commercial traffic. Why the Army is flying night training flights in a congested area is the big question. If you look upon with sober eyes it it was just a question of when an incident would happen. Maybe the ATC should have told the Helicopter that they are on collision course?
Do you know how hot it is for an air traffic control? This is not on them. I privatize responsibility for the aircraft.
It appears atc was only party that knew of eminent collision.
On the tower audio I heard the tower tell the helicopter twice that they were on the collision course and the helicopter pilot told the tower each time requested "visual separation", which once a military aircraft asks that, apparently, is the end of it. The helicopter pilot had responsibility at that point.
It would appear that goes without saying. All parties know they are in a collision course, and the audio suggests the helicopter pilots were either confused about what they were looking at or otherwise non compliant
@@clottadams5028helicopter pilot rose out of its 200 foot limit to 300 feet and veered into the plane. Watch BlancoLerio video not this guys agenda one.
The supervisor of that Blackhog training session should be reprimanded or demoted! It's a case of utter stupidity to allow pilot training in such a busy airspace!
My husband has been in aviation with the army for nearly 6 years. He’s done well over a hundred training flights and has a considerable amount of flight hours. I asked him about night vision goggles last night. He does more night training flights than during the day it seems, so he wears them very very often. He said now that he’s been wearing them for 6 years, it’s not as bad as people are making them sound. He’s adapted to them, but at first it was not easy at all. I just think that this gives some perspective to the whole thing. 1) night training flights happen nearly weekly, if not more than once a week (in our house at least) and 2) if this crew is as experienced as media is saying they are, I’d assume they are use to the night vision goggles as well. So I think it’s unlikely they played a huge role in this disaster. I mean realistically, If altitude was the issue, it’s not like the night vision goggles caused them to be 200 ft higher, or whatever they were, than they were suppose to be
I think they said it was a requalification so I do not think they were use to the night vision but also I think you are correct in the altitude part of this.
@ my husbands not home to 100% confirm but I will say that them requalifying does not mean they went a long time not doing it. They don’t do training flights because they want to most of the time. It’s my impression they have a checklist of things they need to train on monthly and for a certain number of hours. I’m sure I’m off on that a little bit but the jist of it is definitely correct
@@HB492J ok. thank you.
US forces use night to their advantage, hence extensive night training everywhere. In DC, it's partly for VIP transport, which can be any hour of the day, and also for continuity of government evacuation, which can also be anytime.
Don't design mandatory helicopter routes to intersect landing traffic of a major airport. Simple!!!!
Nice to have a video that actually adds value to the conversation.
The Faa is leaderless
Top Workers from the faa were fired
Last week
The Faa is leaderless
Top Workers from the faa were fired
Last week
this is our first ugly collision since 2009 (so ive heard)