Brandon Stark, Brynden Rivers, Bran Stark. All variants of the same name, all related (Blackwood), this theory is interesting as I never thought about there being a single person going into the future and being reborn to strengthen their family. Shame about Ned's brother Brandon though, could his and Rickard's murders have fueled something magical (power of King's Blood and all that)? I'm waiting for Brynden Tully to warg into a Kraken and sink Euron Greyjoy lol Great video, as always. Thank you ;-)
Thankyou, and great point about the three eyed crow inhabiting a Brynden, almost seems like foreshadowing for the 3EC being a Brandon or inhabiting a Brandon
Age of Heroes Stark King of Winter and Bolton Red King just chilling. "Skinchanging is our House's thing" says Stark "What is that?" asks Bolton "We wear other skins as our own" replies Stark "Interesting idea..." says Bolton as he sharpens his knife
@@jenniferarmstrong8879 I've been saying that for years. Rhaegar already had a child named Aegon. Given Targaryen naming conventions Aemon makes the most sense. Plus it would be a nice tie to his kin/elderly source on The Wall.
@@BrandonPhilipps-r9b If George would finish the books, we would know for sure. As it stands though, Jon is Schrodinger's Cat...He BOTH is and isn't Rhaegar's son in the books.
Love this theory. We don’t even know what the 3EC wants, or who it is. Grrm has got a few surprises for us for sure. Bran III, ADWD is literally *insanely* important. The 3EC is symbolically The Stranger.
I believe Bran the Builder is the Three-Eyed Raven. He has been living multiple consecutive lives through the greenseer Children of the Forest. When Bran (our Bran) sees the Children in the cave, he thinks they’re dead, but they’re actually clinging to life by a thread. My theory is that Bran the Builder ran out of greenseer Children to inhabit and had to lure Bloodraven to the cave as a stopgap. He has been waiting for our Bran to be born, so he can fully resurrect himself in a new body. Notice that Bran’s body is in the same condition as the original Bran the Builder’s-crippled. This ties into the idea that “there must always be a Stark in Winterfell,” ensuring his eventual return. But that’s not all. Another entity has also been waiting to be reborn. I believe the man sacrificed on the tree is the original Jon Snow. Bloodraven (the Three-Eyed Raven) lied to Bran when he showed him a vision of the sacrifice as a blond-haired, blue-eyed man. That was misdirection-it was Jon. The proof lies in their similarities: just as Bran’s bodies (past and present) are both lame, both Jon Snows bear the same chest wound and exist in an undead state. This suggests an ancient, Cain-and-Abel-like conflict between Bran and his “bastard” brother, Jon. You’ve pointed out something that others tend to overlook: the Starks were not inherently “good” people. They made a dark and likely horrifying pact with the Children of the Forest. Whatever this pact entailed, it must have been as sinister as its co-signers. In the show, “Hostage Bran the Broken” clearly isn’t a kind or altruistic ruler. As king, he puts a thief in charge of the treasury and seems indifferent to the people. Many think Hostage Bran is a “good” character, but if he’s really Bran the Builder, this narrative is deceptive. Finally, look again at the image of Ice 5:00. George R.R. Martin leaves blatant clues. Ice has been staring us in the face the whole time-it’s a giant’s sword, not made for humans. This implies the giants had a connection to Valyria, as the sword is forged from Valyrian steel. Even the direwolves seem more fitting size-wise as companions for giants than for men.
I agree with all of this, very well said, and i definitely think the First men were giants or at least giant in size as well, you should check out my video on the horn of winter for more on this
Catelyn has a temper, even when talking to Robb, she despises Jon Snow, and her last act is to kill Jinglebell. Her transformation into Stoneheart is fairly well foreshadowed I think; she has a definite hard edge to her character. Her being an entirely good character is a misreading.
I’m not saying she’s entirely good, all characters are grey, but she was the only one vouching for peace in the war of the five kings and has now chosen violence, that’s the change I’m suggesting
The ultimate skin changer is the 3 eyed raven,the sentient being that took over Brynden Rivers,then Bran( in the show so far anyway) and peeping through the eyes of trees.It must have been so strong and creepy that the trees were cut down. Makes you wonder what abominations happened.
Yeah good point about the first men destroying the trees, as much as this eternal tree entity might save the day again the others its ultimately a complete abomination for sure
@@Spllyn If I remember correctly, Michael Talks About Stuff, the Interesting Nerd Club, David Lightbringer or Company Of The Cat mentioned it somewhere as well, but given the amount, length and varied points made in a lot of their videos, I can't really point you to a specific one, unfortunately. They're all good lore channels regardless, although INC is not for everyone (they're basically playing Guess Who? with lore theories).
The "original sin" was committed by the CotF, not the Starks. The Starks were merely a tool. In the final Bran chapter of Dance (the most significant chapter in all the books as it relates to the deep lore) we discover through Leaf, Bloodraven & Jojen a few very interesting things. We find out that the CotF believe the gifts of skinchanging & greensight were gifted to their race by "the gods". This creates "a chicken or egg" paradox as Jojen also states that the "Old Gods" ARE the CotF greenseers. Logically this cannot be because if the gods CREATED the greenseers they cannot also BE the greenseers. We also discover that the CotF believe the gods kept things in balance by granting them long lives but small numbers, except for those with one of the gifts, who we are told lived shorter lives. Lastly Bran muses on the nature of the CotF, noting that they seem resigned to "sing sad songs" and disappear into history & he contrasts this with the nature of men, who Bran believes would "be wroth" and would fight for their existence. Within this I believe we can construct a plausible scenario in which the CotF, faced with annihilation by the encroaching First Men, gave their gods given gifts to a specific family of First Men (likely through inter-marriage) with the understanding that the family in question would use these gifts to keep the rest of the First Men in check. The family was, of course, House Stark & this is how the Starks gained dominion over the North. I call this "the First Heresy".
You are assuming the future and present can not effect the past. The past evidently effects the present and therefore the future. Imagine a stone tossed into a pond, do the ripples only move in the single direct opposite of the origin? No. No matter how hard you throw the stone or which direction you the stone is thrown from, ripples flow outwardly in all directions.
@@BrandonPhilipps-r9b I know there is a point that you are trying to make but you got too focused on your metaphor & forgot to actually make the point. Are you saying that a future Bran may be the one responsible for the actions of the CotF in the past ? If that's the case then sure, I guess that's possible. Personally while I do think George will allude to a time travelling Bran, I do not think he will ever be that explicit but rather that he will leave a certain amount of ambiguity as that is just his style.
@@BrandonPhilipps-r9b Brandon, I wrote my undergraduate thesis on A Song of Ice & Fire, I got a 2-1. Please be assured that I am aware of what is "show bullshit" & what is not.
@@pieceofgosa "Order of the Green Hand". Then you should know that there is no evidence or clues that Jon is a Targaryen, no dragon dreams, no physical characteristics (dude is a Ned clone in looks, something a nephew would not be), can't sing to save his life, and was born at the wrong time to be Lyanna's kid. Also, no one names their heir after the guy who impregnated your sister and led to her suicide after killing your brother yet we have "Ned" Dayne. Jon is Ned and Ashara's firstborn. Jon is the true Stark Heir by all rights of gods and men, thus why Ned is convinced he'd broken said laws with Jon.
Bolt-On Theory but Roose is Brandon Stark (the Builder, Night's King, Ice Eyes) who does Varamyr skinchanging thing to Boltons to stay alive and flays and does Faceless Men thing to Starks because he has nostalgia for the Stark skin, it is all multi-level Rat Cook type of deal, Old Gods cursed him.
Another amazing video, Eldric! We’ve definitely been thinking on parallel tracks for years. I’ve written a variety of Dark Stark Horror theories. Dark Stark reveals and twists will be a huge part of the final two novels and especially the final climax. Among Other things, I think the climate of the North was permanently harmed by a fey-pact made by the Starks that made them Kings of Winter-and also that the Others are either magical second lives of the Starks as something like Ice Golems (similar to Tolkien’s Barrow Wights and Nazgûl) or that they are a half-Stark, half-fey race that come from the Last Queen of an extinct race breeding with Stark lords. I suspect the correct answer is something like a cross between all these theories, where the Corpse Queen was unable after a cataclysm to reproduce biologically, so she made a magical pact with the Starks that gave them magical powers of skinchanging and allowed them to mate with her and create half-human shadows of her originally species through blood sacrifices. Along these lines, I argue the Wall was made to trap the wildlings like cattle with the Others; the Others need blood and baby sacrifices to them to survive; and they want a Stark heir to lead a great magical blood sacrifice to make their Corpse Queen young again, which would allow their original species to return finally to the earth. -A Theory of Ice & Fire on quora
There’s even more Stark identity changes happening with Jeyne Pool becoming Arya Stark, and Bael the Bard slipping his seed into the line of house Stark too
@loucypherdamorningstar Thats a little breadcrumb I think too, I think there's more than enough to substantiate my tinfoil theory! I know that I ain't the 1st to notice it. Cheers!
So, I'm just now finding your channel, and I gotta say, man, I'm digging it lol. For real, dude, your voice is perfect for this, you know how to tell these stories, and it's easy to tell that you're actually into it... Plus, I love your death metal looking name design lol... Fuckin beautiful stuff, good sir! I'm subscribing right now.
Yeah for sure, he’s more than likely a descendant of Brandon of the Bloody blade too, who was a son of Garth the Green so literally descends from a green man too
@eldric.stoneskin - Absolutely! Given that Garth was a Green Man, and Brandon Of The Bloody Blade was his son who mated with many Children Of The Forest, that implies human, COTF, and Green Man genetics. By all accounts, Brandon would have been an extremely powerful person!
Did Robb skinchange into his mother? He was the only Stark with the ability to skinchange at the wedding. Perhaps he first entered his direwolf, Grey Wind, but when Grey Wind was killed, Robb’s spirit transferred into his mother. This would mean that both Robb and Grey Wind are now part of Lady Stoneheart. It might also explain why Arya’s direwolf, Nymeria, would be drawn to Grey Wind.
I think the parallel between Thistle and Catelyn is meant to tell us the story of the Nights Queen, both Catelyn and Thistle are resurrected for vengeance after they are unjustly murdered, Thistle has the glowing blue eyes and Stoneheart is described as having cold breath among other things, I think its meant to tell us about Nissa Nissa, her murder (which could have involved body snatching) and her resurrection for vengeance
Instead of Bran the Builder skinchanging humans, I think its more likely he had a Night's King type of icy transformation and used the same hive mind control the Night King in the show used. Brandon of the Bloody Blade was said to kill a bunch of COTF and giants at Red Lake. Maybe Bran the Builder raised them as wights and built the wall?
If we look at Melisandre it might be implied that making people undead was once the ultimate way to control them and become powerful in this world. Just my thoughts 😊😅
@@JessP-ut9gl Melisandre isnt undead tho. Shes just really old and seems to have gone through some kind of fire transformation since she now stays warm all the time and doesnt have to eat or sleep anymore.
@ No living creature can go on for centuries without much food, water or rest tho can they? No regular human being would be sturdy enough to go through such a process of transformations either. She has many parallels to Dondarrion and Lady Stone Heart.
@@JessP-ut9gl Its a fictional story centered around magic. Anything is possible. Im simply telling you whats in the text. Melissandre thinks to herself about how she no longer has to eat or sleep and how the fire gives her everything she needs to carry on. Its also said that only she can travel to the lowest levels of the volcano on dragonstone due to her immunity to heat. Its never specifically confirmed, but I think these bits of info point to her having a fire transformation where shes basically like a fire wight except she hasnt died yet (at least not to my knowledge).
This is a really interesting theory or story line, it does make me wonder in the show did jojun not know that body snatching was a mortal sin so to speak, cause jojun reacted shocked saying no one can do that, when bran worged into hodor, jojun seemed to understand worging and know everything about it like the green dreams told him all, but did he know bran shouldn’t be worging into hodor ??
Yeah they sort of turned Brans skin changing of Hodor into almost a super power that he could become this giant in the show and act as their protector rather than the horrific act it really is
Love your content! Any interest in the Hightowers’ monopolization of westerosi magic and creation of the Seven as well as a parallel wireless quartz weirwood net akin to the glass candles? I feel like there’s too much there for it to not be shadow-canon.
Yeah that’s interesting, I can see that with the gas’s candles for sure, like a man made weirwood net, I reckon David Lightbringers putting out an Oldtown video soon and he might touch on some of this
Not yet, im working my way towards that, im researching a series for a series on the Nights queen characters at the moment that ill eventually put together, I think that will tell me more about the Others
Hey would it be crazy to ask if you'd ever be willing to edit together a few of the connected videos and theorys into longer compilation videos? Doesnt need to have any new content. I think your subscribers would get a lot of use out of them especially since your videos tend to be tightly constructed. I know we have playlists for that sort of thing technically but those of us that sleep to the videos or download them on Premium, amongst others, could get a lot of use out of comps. Just a couple gold dragons for your thoughts, wonderfully done video as always Mr. Stoneskin.
Thanks, yeah I would like to do something like that, was thinking I could put all the greyscale kings videos together and add pictures and visuals to it, it would make about a 5 hour video?
My own theory is that Bran was able to warg Hodor because he cared for Bran and was weak minded. So Hodor would allow Bran to share his body. Then Bran allowed Bloodraven to share his body in order to share visions. I have always thought that Bloodraven was looking for a way out of the tree and the fallen dreamers were all people who rejected Bloodraven living in their minds. That is why they are all broken. But because Bran had been using Hodor, he was open to Bloodraven sharing his body.
Why did the Starks change who they are in the series? They were all kids, put through a bunch of traumatic events. Not all of them survive. You wouldn't expect them to be the same people at the end.
Yeah it’s all apart of the heroes journey, It’s what makes story telling interesting, and the fact the Starks have the magical ability to actually become someone else makes this even more interesting
Personally I would prefer it if Bran has to fight off the influence of a Hive Brandon(or maybe just Brandon the Builder) instead of Bran having spread himself throughout time and his story just being him becoming that version of himself. Freeing the Starks from the sins of their past would be more engaging than having Bran merely complete a pre-ordained loop. In the end it all boils down to execution, but a cool theory nonetheless.
What if it was Robb’s ghost that warned his moms body and it’s the reason lady stone heart is animated now The way you compared Catelyns death to the wildlings just made me consider the option
Yeah I think the parallel is meant to tell us the story of the Nights Queen, both Catelyn and Thistle are resurrected for vengeance after they are unjustly murdered, Thistle has the glowing blue eyes and Stoneheart is described as having cold breath among other things, I think its meant to tell us about Nissa Nissa, her murder (which could have involved body snatching) and her resurrection for vengeance
If I were to guess, I think Jon’s real name is Viserys or another variation of Visenya (this is because Rhaegar was naming his kids after Aegon and his sister wives)
Yeah I think so too, that's why I think the idea of the Three Eyed Crow being a hive mind and there being potentially thousands of Brandon Starks that "all become on sin Old Nans head" are ultimately tied to gather somehow
Hmm, I am thinking the Kings of Winter might have had the birth of warg children on their minds, but Varamir not so much. Personal gratification. That's it.
Honestly, Catelyn's transformation into Lady Stoneheart is poetic justice. Yes she loved her family; but she could become obsessed and neglect her family as well. Just look at Robb and Bran after Ned went to King's Landing. Robb was thrusted into running things with his dad away and Catelyn completely neglected him/Winterfell in her obsession of Bran's condition. So when she became all the worst qualities she embodied in life with very little of the positive qualities. Could this also reflect the ancient Starks? We know they cared about their people (or at least took their responsibilities seriously). Could it be, the more you transform (or WARG in the Stark's case) strips you of your positive qualities? The Night's King definitely fit this motif. He took his responsibility seriously, but his obsession lead him to transformation (including his men) and losing his positive qualities. But it may also be, skin changing your own species is the worst taboo BECAUSE it has the most corruption/dehumanizing effects. Just some thoughts I've had.
Well I think a parents grief can completely overcome normal or rational behaviour, I think she's just a very well written Mother And yeah it think skin changing your own species would lead to having a dehumanising effect, its exactly what we see with Bran in the show as he becomes less and more than human
@@eldric.stoneskin That is true, grief can do strange things to people; it can be truly powerful. She is certainly a Mother, better written than some I've seen.
I feel you aren't discerning between Bran who puppeteers Hodor, and Arya who is the one to actually assume people's identities; i.e. impersonating people and speaking as those people.
Theon is an honorary stark, a symbolic stark, his family tel him he’s become a stark, Catelyn gave birth to Stark children and is now apart of the stark bloodline and Jon’s mother was a stark, he even has the trademark Stark looks, Stannis even offered to legitimise him as a Stark, they’re all Starks
It feels like Brandon.... is every Brandon.... at some point. He is influencing things in history to what end? It cannot be a throne. Whatever Bran is.... his motives have to be more than the throne.
I think the parallel is meant to tell us the story of the Nights Queen, both Catelyn and Thistle are resurrected for vengeance after they are unjustly murdered, Thistle has the glowing blue eyes and Stoneheart is described as having cold breath among other things, I think its meant to tell us about Nissa Nissa, her murder (which could have involved body snatching) and her resurrection for vengeance
The original sin of House Stark is exterminating house GreyStark and pardoning House Bolton. Slay your kin but spare the house who used to Flay Stark princes????
She married a stark and gave birth to stark children, she’s a part of the stark bloodline and yeah she wasn’t the nicest to Jon but she was the only political player vouching for peace
Flaw 1: Sansa doesn’t turn into anyone. She dyed her hair and made up a name for protection Flaw 2: John Snow is a Targaryen, not a Stark. Go ask the Kings of Winter if you don’t believe me Flaw 2.5: Theon is not any type of honorary Stark. He’s a Greyjoy torn by his father’s apparent disinterest in him. I’d argue the change to Reek isn’t his either, rather it was forced upon him, but I’ll give you half credit for that piece Flaw 3: You extend Arya’s change too far. Arya’s only true change is when she takes a new face and must become No One All the above is true and factual, factually an opinion
1. Yep, she took on a new identity 2. His mother was literally a Stark, he has Stark blood 2.5. He was raised with Ned Stark as a father he is a symbolic Stark 3. Arya can literacy change her identity All the above is true and factual 👍🏼
Catlain Stark is far from loving and compassionate. I think death just gave her a reason to be her true self. Vengeful, angry, selfish woman who couldn't bring herself to love a motherless child, or even pretend to care about him. Not only did she withhold affection and acceptance, she deliberately hurt him when she could. Rejection was cruel enough. But telling him he should have been the child who died was the worst. She lost her right to call herself a mother after that. Jon never did anything to hurt her. He just existed. She deserved everything that happened at the red wedding.
Brandon Stark, Brynden Rivers, Bran Stark. All variants of the same name, all related (Blackwood), this theory is interesting as I never thought about there being a single person going into the future and being reborn to strengthen their family. Shame about Ned's brother Brandon though, could his and Rickard's murders have fueled something magical (power of King's Blood and all that)? I'm waiting for Brynden Tully to warg into a Kraken and sink Euron Greyjoy lol Great video, as always. Thank you ;-)
Thankyou, and great point about the three eyed crow inhabiting a Brynden, almost seems like foreshadowing for the 3EC being a Brandon or inhabiting a Brandon
@@eldric.stoneskin
How’d you come up with “Stoneskin” as a name?
Pretty cool
@ I took the first name of Eldric Shadowchaser and the last name of Argoth Stoneskin
Age of Heroes Stark King of Winter and Bolton Red King just chilling.
"Skinchanging is our House's thing" says Stark
"What is that?" asks Bolton
"We wear other skins as our own" replies Stark
"Interesting idea..." says Bolton as he sharpens his knife
🤣
Bolton I didn't even think it gave any powers, he just has a passion for fashion and Stark I had given him the best inspiration of his life.
If Brand the Builder really did go into full-on Meat-Puppet Master mode, that would make him a truly "Abominable Snowman".
🤣
That northern bastard
I hate to be "that guy," but my inner nerd is screaming at the top of his lungs that you misspelled Bran.
@@rogueprince1341 I hate to be the Other guy, but his name was "Brandon the Builder", was it not?
@KarlKarsnark I agree, but the shorthand is Bran, not Brand.
Great video as always homie, love the new artwork from your drummer!!
There he is, Happy Belated Thanksgiving D Beezy
Thanks mate, yeah he did an incredible job, I’ll send the artwork to you in case you’d like to use them man
I really like the theory that Jon’s real name is Aemon. It makes much more sense given Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon
Yeah I agree, that does make more sense
@@jenniferarmstrong8879 I've been saying that for years. Rhaegar already had a child named Aegon. Given Targaryen naming conventions Aemon makes the most sense. Plus it would be a nice tie to his kin/elderly source on The Wall.
Yessss! I agree 💯! I have always thought that would make way more sense than any of the other options put forward.
Jon is NOT Rhaegar's son. STOP confusing the show and the books.
@@BrandonPhilipps-r9b If George would finish the books, we would know for sure. As it stands though, Jon is Schrodinger's Cat...He BOTH is and isn't Rhaegar's son in the books.
Love this theory. We don’t even know what the 3EC wants, or who it is. Grrm has got a few surprises for us for sure. Bran III, ADWD is literally *insanely* important. The 3EC is symbolically The Stranger.
3EC is Leyton Hightower via Glass Candle and Quaithe is Mallora Hightower also via Glass Candle.
The body snatching and identity theft always put me in mind of the Lovecraft story - Thing on the Doorstep.
I’ll have to read this one, thanks!
@@eldric.stoneskin My pleasure. Alan Moore does an even more disturbing take on the story in his Providence comics.
I believe Bran the Builder is the Three-Eyed Raven. He has been living multiple consecutive lives through the greenseer Children of the Forest. When Bran (our Bran) sees the Children in the cave, he thinks they’re dead, but they’re actually clinging to life by a thread. My theory is that Bran the Builder ran out of greenseer Children to inhabit and had to lure Bloodraven to the cave as a stopgap. He has been waiting for our Bran to be born, so he can fully resurrect himself in a new body. Notice that Bran’s body is in the same condition as the original Bran the Builder’s-crippled. This ties into the idea that “there must always be a Stark in Winterfell,” ensuring his eventual return.
But that’s not all. Another entity has also been waiting to be reborn. I believe the man sacrificed on the tree is the original Jon Snow. Bloodraven (the Three-Eyed Raven) lied to Bran when he showed him a vision of the sacrifice as a blond-haired, blue-eyed man. That was misdirection-it was Jon. The proof lies in their similarities: just as Bran’s bodies (past and present) are both lame, both Jon Snows bear the same chest wound and exist in an undead state.
This suggests an ancient, Cain-and-Abel-like conflict between Bran and his “bastard” brother, Jon.
You’ve pointed out something that others tend to overlook: the Starks were not inherently “good” people. They made a dark and likely horrifying pact with the Children of the Forest. Whatever this pact entailed, it must have been as sinister as its co-signers.
In the show, “Hostage Bran the Broken” clearly isn’t a kind or altruistic ruler. As king, he puts a thief in charge of the treasury and seems indifferent to the people. Many think Hostage Bran is a “good” character, but if he’s really Bran the Builder, this narrative is deceptive.
Finally, look again at the image of Ice 5:00. George R.R. Martin leaves blatant clues. Ice has been staring us in the face the whole time-it’s a giant’s sword, not made for humans. This implies the giants had a connection to Valyria, as the sword is forged from Valyrian steel. Even the direwolves seem more fitting size-wise as companions for giants than for men.
I agree with all of this, very well said, and i definitely think the First men were giants or at least giant in size as well, you should check out my video on the horn of winter for more on this
Thanks for sharing! Excellent thinking!!
The Ice seen in the book and show is not the original ice. Its a ceremonial sword only really used for executions.
Catelyn has a temper, even when talking to Robb, she despises Jon Snow, and her last act is to kill Jinglebell. Her transformation into Stoneheart is fairly well foreshadowed I think; she has a definite hard edge to her character. Her being an entirely good character is a misreading.
I’m not saying she’s entirely good, all characters are grey, but she was the only one vouching for peace in the war of the five kings and has now chosen violence, that’s the change I’m suggesting
The ultimate skin changer is the 3 eyed raven,the sentient being that took over Brynden Rivers,then Bran( in the show so far anyway) and peeping through the eyes of trees.It must have been so strong and creepy that the trees were cut down. Makes you wonder what abominations happened.
Yeah good point about the first men destroying the trees, as much as this eternal tree entity might save the day again the others its ultimately a complete abomination for sure
First person I have ever seen acknowledge, blood raven stealing brans body in the TV series.
My faith in humanity grew two sizes ty.
@@Spllyn If I remember correctly, Michael Talks About Stuff, the Interesting Nerd Club, David Lightbringer or Company Of The Cat mentioned it somewhere as well, but given the amount, length and varied points made in a lot of their videos, I can't really point you to a specific one, unfortunately.
They're all good lore channels regardless, although INC is not for everyone (they're basically playing Guess Who? with lore theories).
The "original sin" was committed by the CotF, not the Starks. The Starks were merely a tool. In the final Bran chapter of Dance (the most significant chapter in all the books as it relates to the deep lore) we discover through Leaf, Bloodraven & Jojen a few very interesting things. We find out that the CotF believe the gifts of skinchanging & greensight were gifted to their race by "the gods". This creates "a chicken or egg" paradox as Jojen also states that the "Old Gods" ARE the CotF greenseers. Logically this cannot be because if the gods CREATED the greenseers they cannot also BE the greenseers. We also discover that the CotF believe the gods kept things in balance by granting them long lives but small numbers, except for those with one of the gifts, who we are told lived shorter lives. Lastly Bran muses on the nature of the CotF, noting that they seem resigned to "sing sad songs" and disappear into history & he contrasts this with the nature of men, who Bran believes would "be wroth" and would fight for their existence. Within this I believe we can construct a plausible scenario in which the CotF, faced with annihilation by the encroaching First Men, gave their gods given gifts to a specific family of First Men (likely through inter-marriage) with the understanding that the family in question would use these gifts to keep the rest of the First Men in check. The family was, of course, House Stark & this is how the Starks gained dominion over the North. I call this "the First Heresy".
You are assuming the future and present can not effect the past. The past evidently effects the present and therefore the future. Imagine a stone tossed into a pond, do the ripples only move in the single direct opposite of the origin? No. No matter how hard you throw the stone or which direction you the stone is thrown from, ripples flow outwardly in all directions.
@@BrandonPhilipps-r9b I know there is a point that you are trying to make but you got too focused on your metaphor & forgot to actually make the point. Are you saying that a future Bran may be the one responsible for the actions of the CotF in the past ? If that's the case then sure, I guess that's possible. Personally while I do think George will allude to a time travelling Bran, I do not think he will ever be that explicit but rather that he will leave a certain amount of ambiguity as that is just his style.
@@pieceofgosa Bran or others. The point is that actions taken in the future may effect the past. "The Ink is Dry" is just show bullshit.
@@BrandonPhilipps-r9b Brandon, I wrote my undergraduate thesis on A Song of Ice & Fire, I got a 2-1. Please be assured that I am aware of what is "show bullshit" & what is not.
@@pieceofgosa "Order of the Green Hand". Then you should know that there is no evidence or clues that Jon is a Targaryen, no dragon dreams, no physical characteristics (dude is a Ned clone in looks, something a nephew would not be), can't sing to save his life, and was born at the wrong time to be Lyanna's kid. Also, no one names their heir after the guy who impregnated your sister and led to her suicide after killing your brother yet we have "Ned" Dayne. Jon is Ned and Ashara's firstborn. Jon is the true Stark Heir by all rights of gods and men, thus why Ned is convinced he'd broken said laws with Jon.
Fascinating insights and theories, as always.
Thanks!
Bolt-On Theory but Roose is Brandon Stark (the Builder, Night's King, Ice Eyes) who does Varamyr skinchanging thing to Boltons to stay alive and flays and does Faceless Men thing to Starks because he has nostalgia for the Stark skin, it is all multi-level Rat Cook type of deal, Old Gods cursed him.
Excellent artwork and Excellent content. Can't wait to see what you have in store for merch.
Thanks! Yeah he's done an incredible job on the art, thinking some shirts and Diplate products at this stage, open to suggestions too
It's been a while since I've seen good theories on the Song of Ice and Fire... Keep going!
Thank you! 💀🍻
Another amazing video, Eldric! We’ve definitely been thinking on parallel tracks for years. I’ve written a variety of Dark Stark Horror theories. Dark Stark reveals and twists will be a huge part of the final two novels and especially the final climax.
Among Other things, I think the climate of the North was permanently harmed by a fey-pact made by the Starks that made them Kings of Winter-and also that the Others are either magical second lives of the Starks as something like Ice Golems (similar to Tolkien’s Barrow Wights and Nazgûl) or that they are a half-Stark, half-fey race that come from the Last Queen of an extinct race breeding with Stark lords. I suspect the correct answer is something like a cross between all these theories, where the Corpse Queen was unable after a cataclysm to reproduce biologically, so she made a magical pact with the Starks that gave them magical powers of skinchanging and allowed them to mate with her and create half-human shadows of her originally species through blood sacrifices.
Along these lines, I argue the Wall was made to trap the wildlings like cattle with the Others; the Others need blood and baby sacrifices to them to survive; and they want a Stark heir to lead a great magical blood sacrifice to make their Corpse Queen young again, which would allow their original species to return finally to the earth.
-A Theory of Ice & Fire on quora
There’s even more Stark identity changes happening with Jeyne Pool becoming Arya Stark, and Bael the Bard slipping his seed into the line of house Stark too
Yeah great call, even more identity changes in house stark
Wonder if that's how the Stark's got their warging power
When Roose skinchanges into Ramsay it will be subtle and we'll have to notice it through a change in his behavior
Would be a callback to why Roose was so focused on the eye color
@loucypherdamorningstar Thats a little breadcrumb I think too, I think there's more than enough to substantiate my tinfoil theory! I know that I ain't the 1st to notice it. Cheers!
The magical elements of this saga are fascinating, I'm dying to find out how the crypts of Winterfell come into play.
So, I'm just now finding your channel, and I gotta say, man, I'm digging it lol. For real, dude, your voice is perfect for this, you know how to tell these stories, and it's easy to tell that you're actually into it... Plus, I love your death metal looking name design lol... Fuckin beautiful stuff, good sir! I'm subscribing right now.
Thanks mate! Really appreciate the comment 💀🍻
Love the video, and the artwork is awesome. Nice one :)
Thank you!
More! more! more! I love this stuff keep it up - also can you make a playlist thats just all your videos please and thank you
Will do 🍻
@paulhay8357 Playlist for all videos is up
The more I think about Bran The Builder, the more obvious it becomes to me that he has Green Man, Child Of The Forest, and human genetics.
Yeah for sure, he’s more than likely a descendant of Brandon of the Bloody blade too, who was a son of Garth the Green so literally descends from a green man too
@eldric.stoneskin - Absolutely!
Given that Garth was a Green Man, and Brandon Of The Bloody Blade was his son who mated with many Children Of The Forest, that implies human, COTF, and Green Man genetics.
By all accounts, Brandon would have been an extremely powerful person!
Love the theory and the images are🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks mate! 💀🍻
Eldric dropping a thanksgiving video. One more thing to be thankful for, wohoo! 🎉
Did Robb skinchange into his mother? He was the only Stark with the ability to skinchange at the wedding. Perhaps he first entered his direwolf, Grey Wind, but when Grey Wind was killed, Robb’s spirit transferred into his mother. This would mean that both Robb and Grey Wind are now part of Lady Stoneheart. It might also explain why Arya’s direwolf, Nymeria, would be drawn to Grey Wind.
I think the parallel between Thistle and Catelyn is meant to tell us the story of the Nights Queen, both Catelyn and Thistle are resurrected for vengeance after they are unjustly murdered, Thistle has the glowing blue eyes and Stoneheart is described as having cold breath among other things, I think its meant to tell us about Nissa Nissa, her murder (which could have involved body snatching) and her resurrection for vengeance
REFRESHING theory>VERY thought provoking🤫>Luv it!😍
Thanks!
Instead of Bran the Builder skinchanging humans, I think its more likely he had a Night's King type of icy transformation and used the same hive mind control the Night King in the show used. Brandon of the Bloody Blade was said to kill a bunch of COTF and giants at Red Lake. Maybe Bran the Builder raised them as wights and built the wall?
Yeah they very well could have been undead for sure
If we look at Melisandre it might be implied that making people undead was once the ultimate way to control them and become powerful in this world.
Just my thoughts 😊😅
@@JessP-ut9gl Melisandre isnt undead tho. Shes just really old and seems to have gone through some kind of fire transformation since she now stays warm all the time and doesnt have to eat or sleep anymore.
@ No living creature can go on for centuries without much food, water or rest tho can they? No regular human being would be sturdy enough to go through such a process of transformations either. She has many parallels to Dondarrion and Lady Stone Heart.
@@JessP-ut9gl Its a fictional story centered around magic. Anything is possible. Im simply telling you whats in the text. Melissandre thinks to herself about how she no longer has to eat or sleep and how the fire gives her everything she needs to carry on. Its also said that only she can travel to the lowest levels of the volcano on dragonstone due to her immunity to heat. Its never specifically confirmed, but I think these bits of info point to her having a fire transformation where shes basically like a fire wight except she hasnt died yet (at least not to my knowledge).
It all makes sense. Very cool video.
Cheers! 💀🍻
This is a really interesting theory or story line, it does make me wonder in the show did jojun not know that body snatching was a mortal sin so to speak, cause jojun reacted shocked saying no one can do that, when bran worged into hodor, jojun seemed to understand worging and know everything about it like the green dreams told him all, but did he know bran shouldn’t be worging into hodor ??
Yeah they sort of turned Brans skin changing of Hodor into almost a super power that he could become this giant in the show and act as their protector rather than the horrific act it really is
Bro drop the sound cloud link!
Ive got a link to some our music in the description if you wanna check it out
@ loved it. Come hit some festivals in the states I’ll go see you!
Love your content! Any interest in the Hightowers’ monopolization of westerosi magic and creation of the Seven as well as a parallel wireless quartz weirwood net akin to the glass candles? I feel like there’s too much there for it to not be shadow-canon.
Yeah that’s interesting, I can see that with the gas’s candles for sure, like a man made weirwood net, I reckon David Lightbringers putting out an Oldtown video soon and he might touch on some of this
Catlyn had no warg blood as someone who married in, so she does the best she can to fit in by warging herself from the great beyond.
15:02 this art is amazing and terrifying.
Thanks!
Intriguing. Very well observed!
Thanks!
Good stuff. Do you have a video take on what/who the Others are? Thanks.
Not yet, im working my way towards that, im researching a series for a series on the Nights queen characters at the moment that ill eventually put together, I think that will tell me more about the Others
great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Hey would it be crazy to ask if you'd ever be willing to edit together a few of the connected videos and theorys into longer compilation videos? Doesnt need to have any new content. I think your subscribers would get a lot of use out of them especially since your videos tend to be tightly constructed. I know we have playlists for that sort of thing technically but those of us that sleep to the videos or download them on Premium, amongst others, could get a lot of use out of comps.
Just a couple gold dragons for your thoughts, wonderfully done video as always Mr. Stoneskin.
Thanks, yeah I would like to do something like that, was thinking I could put all the greyscale kings videos together and add pictures and visuals to it, it would make about a 5 hour video?
@@eldric.stoneskin oh that would be perfect!
My own theory is that Bran was able to warg Hodor because he cared for Bran and was weak minded. So Hodor would allow Bran to share his body. Then Bran allowed Bloodraven to share his body in order to share visions. I have always thought that Bloodraven was looking for a way out of the tree and the fallen dreamers were all people who rejected Bloodraven living in their minds. That is why they are all broken. But because Bran had been using Hodor, he was open to Bloodraven sharing his body.
Yeah this makes sense, and I think he was was weak minded due the "hold the door" incident which were yet to see in the books as well
@@eldric.stoneskin Yep, Bran created the very situation that he would need.
Why did the Starks change who they are in the series?
They were all kids, put through a bunch of traumatic events. Not all of them survive. You wouldn't expect them to be the same people at the end.
Yeah it’s all apart of the heroes journey,
It’s what makes story telling interesting, and the fact the Starks have the magical ability to actually become someone else makes this even more interesting
Personally I would prefer it if Bran has to fight off the influence of a Hive Brandon(or maybe just Brandon the Builder) instead of Bran having spread himself throughout time and his story just being him becoming that version of himself. Freeing the Starks from the sins of their past would be more engaging than having Bran merely complete a pre-ordained loop. In the end it all boils down to execution, but a cool theory nonetheless.
What if it was Robb’s ghost that warned his moms body and it’s the reason lady stone heart is animated now
The way you compared Catelyns death to the wildlings just made me consider the option
Yeah I think the parallel is meant to tell us the story of the Nights Queen, both Catelyn and Thistle are resurrected for vengeance after they are unjustly murdered, Thistle has the glowing blue eyes and Stoneheart is described as having cold breath among other things, I think its meant to tell us about Nissa Nissa, her murder (which could have involved body snatching) and her resurrection for vengeance
2:25 Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon, no way he would have named Jon that.
Yeah probably not, that’s why I said potentially, seeing as though that’s what the HBO series suggested
@eldric.stoneskin Fair enough that. The show really blundered there haha
If I were to guess, I think Jon’s real name is Viserys or another variation of Visenya (this is because Rhaegar was naming his kids after Aegon and his sister wives)
Always thought the three eyed raven was more of hive mind of children and first men greenseers.
Yeah I think so too, that's why I think the idea of the Three Eyed Crow being a hive mind and there being potentially thousands of Brandon Starks that "all become on sin Old Nans head" are ultimately tied to gather somehow
Hell yeah dude
How come at 5:03 I see an extra boy in the family? Who’s the little boy clinging to Catlyns dress?
Yeah I wasn’t sure either 😂
It’s Rickon I believe
An ancient ancestor stealing the younger body reminds me of Bolt-on
Does doesn’t it
Awesome.
Thanks!
Sorry I couldn't concentrate after you suggested Jon's real name might be Aegon.
🤣
What about the Change Ned Stark went through...He used to have a head at the beginning of the story
Yeah that was a pretty drastic change too 🤣
Hmm, I am thinking the Kings of Winter might have had the birth of warg children on their minds, but Varamir not so much. Personal gratification. That's it.
Yeah I agree the reasons are different but the goal is the same, he mentions that none of them had “the gift”
Honestly, Catelyn's transformation into Lady Stoneheart is poetic justice. Yes she loved her family; but she could become obsessed and neglect her family as well. Just look at Robb and Bran after Ned went to King's Landing. Robb was thrusted into running things with his dad away and Catelyn completely neglected him/Winterfell in her obsession of Bran's condition. So when she became all the worst qualities she embodied in life with very little of the positive qualities.
Could this also reflect the ancient Starks? We know they cared about their people (or at least took their responsibilities seriously). Could it be, the more you transform (or WARG in the Stark's case) strips you of your positive qualities? The Night's King definitely fit this motif. He took his responsibility seriously, but his obsession lead him to transformation (including his men) and losing his positive qualities. But it may also be, skin changing your own species is the worst taboo BECAUSE it has the most corruption/dehumanizing effects. Just some thoughts I've had.
Well I think a parents grief can completely overcome normal or rational behaviour, I think she's just a very well written Mother
And yeah it think skin changing your own species would lead to having a dehumanising effect, its exactly what we see with Bran in the show as he becomes less and more than human
@@eldric.stoneskin That is true, grief can do strange things to people; it can be truly powerful. She is certainly a Mother, better written than some I've seen.
I feel you aren't discerning between Bran who puppeteers Hodor, and Arya who is the one to actually assume people's identities; i.e. impersonating people and speaking as those people.
While the mechanics are different they are both essentially stealing someones identity through magic by wearing their skin though
Is better if you lower the background music
Theon, Catelyn and Jon are not Starks. They are Greyjoy, Arryn and Targaryan.
Theon is an honorary stark, a symbolic stark, his family tel him he’s become a stark, Catelyn gave birth to Stark children and is now apart of the stark bloodline and Jon’s mother was a stark, he even has the trademark Stark looks, Stannis even offered to legitimise him as a Stark, they’re all Starks
Arya had to change her identity long before Sansa did
It feels like Brandon.... is every Brandon.... at some point. He is influencing things in history to what end? It cannot be a throne. Whatever Bran is.... his motives have to be more than the throne.
Yeah there’s something to this idea for sure
based bran the builder
This does not bode well for Rickon.
Controling corpses could be i "dark" branch of skin-changing animals and humans.
Yeah exactly right
Catlin stark is a tully
She married a stark and gave birth to Stark children, she’s a part of the Stark bloodline
Now i dont like any Starks, i was already down to just liking Arya. Great video, keep up the great work
Hahaha thanks mate
So the ancient Starks were Norsca, got it.
Dark Starks
Shoggoth
Do you think Robb may have inhabited his mother's body briefly and that's the reason she clawed her face as the wildling woman did?
I think the parallel is meant to tell us the story of the Nights Queen, both Catelyn and Thistle are resurrected for vengeance after they are unjustly murdered, Thistle has the glowing blue eyes and Stoneheart is described as having cold breath among other things, I think its meant to tell us about Nissa Nissa, her murder (which could have involved body snatching) and her resurrection for vengeance
The original sin of House Stark is exterminating house GreyStark and pardoning House Bolton. Slay your kin but spare the house who used to Flay Stark princes????
That is really weird hey
🎉🎉
In Catelyn ' s case, she's not a Stark. Not really. She's not truly compassionate as well - look at how she treated Jon Snow.
She married a stark and gave birth to stark children, she’s a part of the stark bloodline and yeah she wasn’t the nicest to Jon but she was the only political player vouching for peace
Caitlin is only a Stark by injection
She married a Stark and gave birth to Stark children, she’s apart of the Stark bloodline
All the Brans are evil.
Seems like it yeah! Even Brandon of the Bloody Blade was slaughtering Children of the Forrest and driving the giants from their homes in the reach
Flaw 1: Sansa doesn’t turn into anyone. She dyed her hair and made up a name for protection
Flaw 2: John Snow is a Targaryen, not a Stark. Go ask the Kings of Winter if you don’t believe me
Flaw 2.5: Theon is not any type of honorary Stark. He’s a Greyjoy torn by his father’s apparent disinterest in him. I’d argue the change to Reek isn’t his either, rather it was forced upon him, but I’ll give you half credit for that piece
Flaw 3: You extend Arya’s change too far. Arya’s only true change is when she takes a new face and must become No One
All the above is true and factual, factually an opinion
1. Yep, she took on a new identity
2. His mother was literally a Stark, he has Stark blood
2.5. He was raised with Ned Stark as a father he is a symbolic Stark
3. Arya can literacy change her identity
All the above is true and factual 👍🏼
Wolves - dire or otherwise - aren't noble. They will do anything and everything to survive and thrive. That means not being nice or considerate.
Catlain Stark is far from loving and compassionate. I think death just gave her a reason to be her true self. Vengeful, angry, selfish woman who couldn't bring herself to love a motherless child, or even pretend to care about him. Not only did she withhold affection and acceptance, she deliberately hurt him when she could. Rejection was cruel enough. But telling him he should have been the child who died was the worst. She lost her right to call herself a mother after that. Jon never did anything to hurt her. He just existed. She deserved everything that happened at the red wedding.
She’s a human character, she has grey traits, she’s the only one who vouched for peace
HODOR
I stopped listening when you said Jon Snow was born Aegon. Nonsense.
🤣