HO Scale & OO Scale: Differences Explained
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Quick video explaining the differences between HO and OO scales. Featuring Hornby's OO scale Flying Scotsman train set and my first HO scale train set from Bachmann I received for my 7th Birthday in 2002. Footage and dialogue recorded with Panasonic 4K HC-VX981 video camera. Video edited in Premiere Pro
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Bachmann and Hornby Logos from Google Images
Thank you for explaining this, I was having a hard time because I live in the US so the tracks I'm getting is HO but the trains I want (Mallard and Flying Scotsmen) are OO Scale, So I am happy that you simplified it much better than google !
You are welcome!
Wish they made some american locos in òo just for the brit market to run alongside the br stuff
There isn't enough market for it. Almost nobody wants to run American and British locomotives on the same layout at the same time. Almost everyone who wants to run American locomotives wants to run only that, so they just buy it in HO.
Or do Brit stuff in ho like what marlin did with the flying scot too
OO used to be common in the states, but it was a different track gauge than HO. HO won out over OO in the 1940s, and today there are very, VERY few people who still model American OO gauge.
Other way around the ruston 48 in H0 would be nice
Theoretically UK models could now be built to HO scale - the size of motors having shrunk significantly since the early 1900's war years (the reason HO/OO was created, because O used too much valuable resources). But it would probably alienate all the UK modelers who already have OO scale rolling stock. The reason HO track guage was used for OO trains, was because it was being mass produced for the European market (yeah US too, but it's a long way to ship it!), and thus cheaper option. Now you can get EM (slightly more realistic guage), and convert OO scale to run on it, using slightly wider axles, without too much bother, though the track is more expensive, it does give a more realistic look. Then there's P4 (true scale), but to convert OO trains you need wider axles and narrower wheels (to fit the existing chasis) and thus a much finer tolerance of track build to avoid problems - or scratch build everything!!
Neil, as you mention, there is no reason technically why OO scale models cannot be made in HO scale with modern tooling. However there is another problem not immediately revealed by the simple HO versus OO problem.
British trains in real life are lower, narrower and shorter, than European trains, and European trains are smaller than North American trains. So if you shrink British OO models to HO scale they become noticeably smaller than European HO models, and look absurdly small against North American HO models ! Lima Italy did produce British models in HO scale 35 years ago, and virtually no one in Britain would buy them !!!!
@@JamesSmith-mv9fp I still think a resistance to move over to UK-HO models is because of the amount of OO scale that is already in circulation. If I was starting completely from scratch I might consider a UK-HO layout, but since I have around twenty OO engines, along with the appropriate rolling stock, that's a lot of kit to just shelve in order to start over. And even with that amount of stock moving over to EM or P4 for a new layout build would involve a lot of enhancement work on each model I already have!! I'm kind of stuck in a world of OO, and I'm sure I'm not alone!
Also as a UK modeler, I'm not inclined to run European or US prototypes on my rails - except maybe some of the war department stuff that was provided by the US during WWII, so relative sizes is not so significant to me.
@@JamesSmith-mv9fp Lima were good value.
I only use HO scaled tracks so I'm glad an OO guage 14xx can work on them.
you learn new something every day
😀
Im fine with either one. I just wish i could get more UK locomotives here in the states
that flying scotsman just looks stunning...bet you smile every time you see it, those carriages are so good. if only I had the space.
So basically you can run both 00 gauge and H0 gauge on either track pretty much which makes life a lot easier.
There was American OO scale that had the 1:76 proportions but ran on a track that was slightly wider than HO gauge track. This OO scale was most popular in the late 1930s & early 1940s. Leonard Williams has some You Tube videos of these trains with an oval of OO gauge track circling an oval of HO gauge track on the same layout board. The difference in size is easily noted.
I just saw it. Yes, the track is definitely wider. Thanks for telling me.
A co-worker of mine told me that during a visit to the UK he met someone who had done a full Cajon Pass setup as their model railway. Knowing that I’m surprised USA stuff isn’t available in OO scale for the UK folks.
Concise and informative. Thank you!
That's Great thanks...now I buy the HO scale Tunnel Portals for my 00 scale Layout...thanks for the reference...
No problem!
HO = 1:87 scale, or 3.5mm on the model to 1 foot in real life.
OO = 1:76 scale or 4mm on the model to 1 foot in real life.
But both scales use the same 16.5mm gauge track for commercial reasons.
Assuming you are modelling a Standard Gauge railway with 4ft 8.5inch track....
This means that the model track works out at 4ft 8.4inches in HO (virtually correct).
And 4ft 1.5inches in OO scale. So 2.3mm too narrow to be realistic !
Some British modeller's object to using commercial track for their "OO" scale models, because it is 2.3mm too narrow. As a result there are two alternatives being used by some clubs and individuals in Britain. These are known as the EM Gauge Society with 18.2mm track. And the Proto Four (P4) Society which uses exact precision 18.83mm gauge track. Not for the faint hearted, as you have to rebuild the chassis's on all your OO trains to accept the wider wheelsets of either EM 18.2mm or P4 with 18.83mm.
Both Societies have numerous specialist tools, track, & wheels sets, to aid conversion......
NOTE: Commercially produced rolling stock uses different types of couplings, depending on whether the products are aimed at Britain; Europe or North America !
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE the same loco compared in different sizes can’t seem to find a video that does it I might have to buy some and Do a video on my channel. But hats off to you for being the first to actually take real life examples.
You can't really do it with actual models, unless they're completely scratch-built. Only models of British trains are available in OO, and nobody (as far as I'm aware) makes British trains in HO.
@@beeble2003 reminds me of the quote. And is applicable. Here we are in the year 2023 and they can land a person on the moon and can’t make my feet smell good. lol George Costanza one of the best philosophers of my generation.
The reason you have 00/HO is because of the claring difference between the height and width of the rolling stock which neccessitated the english stock being made at 1: 76 instead of the 1:87 of european stock thus both models appear to be the same size relative to each other
I like both Ho and OO train sets, and they are the same with the tracks.
Thank you for all the information sir, i shall remember all this so i can work on my own layout of HO Scale stuff :)
If you're just using HO, you don't need to know anything in this video.
I'm doing both : OO for UK trains, and HO for italian ones. OO is a compromise, I would rather have UK trains in HO scale, but OO is acceptable because it have roughly the same advantages as HO in space used and mecanical constraints, at the price of a non accurate gauge for the tracks. Well, it uses the same tracks as HO, so I can have a layout where I only have to swap the setting to go from Italy to Britain...
I knew that OO-rolling stock is somehow out of scale (they look a bit like narrow gauge to me), but I didn’t know the reason (the bulky motors/mechanisms). Thanks for this interesting video 🙏👍
nope they increased the sise of the rolling stock alongside the locos
@@minesalty OO trains should use wider tracks... By using HO scale tracks it made them look like narrow gauge.
I am so happy that a Bachmann HO track works with a Hornby 14xx
Don't forget that the Lionel OO Gauge Hudson runs on 19mm gauge tracks and is not compatiable with HO 16.5mm gauge tracks. The only track systems it will run on is the 19mm bakelite roadbed original, gargraves OO gauge track, or On3 gauge track.
Very useful! Thanks
You're welcome!
Flying Scotsman toured the us in the early 70s. She looked like a runt compared to the American trains. Good thing oo scale trains were sized up to accommodate their motors, otherwise combining ho scale trains with oo gauge locomotives wouldn’t work, and vice versa.
HO means 'Half O', i.e. half of 7mm/ft O scale. 00 is a typical UK compromise. EM (18mm gauge) and P4 (18.83mm gauge) look a lot better. One of the biggest problems I have with much of the 00 track is that the sleeper spacing looks completely wrong. In the UK, Peco have finally addressed this after decades of people asking, but companies like SMP Scaleway have been making better sleeper spaced track for ages.
What id like to know is "what is the point of EM gauge?" I mean, why would you go to the trouble of hand building, even scratch building, track and rolling stock, but still get the gauge wrong?, if you like a nice round number, why not 19mm, thats only 0.17mm incorrect, 18mm is 0.83 wrong, but still why, why not just make it scalefour/protofour 18.83?
@@sinistregoth I've often wondered that myself: 19mm would be a better compromise, but you can get ready to run EM track and turnouts.
It might be that r-t-r 00 locos and rolling stock fitted wheels can be pushed out to 18mm but not 19mm without causing issues.
Yeah. I get that ! ..OO scale trains running on HO track will have too close together ties (sleepers) and probably lengthwise as well.. I always thought this and felt bad that Brits have to put up with this 'out of scale-ness' of track..
It would be nice if there were a sea change in OO to having correct gauged track, axles, and trucks (bogies), all 1:76 scale, period !!
I'm here in Los Angeles, a US, HOer.. But I think of this from time to time...I know if I were a native Britain it'd irk me to no end to have to run on slightly narrow gauge track with too close and short ties (sleepers)...
But thanks. I finally get why all this occurred...............I think... IE.:
Real 1:1 scale British locos are smaller than 1:1 scale US locos.. So the Brit model engines could not accommodate existing HO sized motors/drivetrains if remained 1/87. Thus England decided to make their models larger to accommodate HO mechanisms and went 1:76 to do that, continuing with HO motors and existing gears/axles within British loco shells/frames.
Yes ?
@@MarkInLA Yes, UK steam locos were certainly smaller compared to the US and Europe. It's a shame we didn't just bite the bullet and go with our own track gauge instead of using HO track, but I guess it was just expediency that drove the decision. One of the ways around it is to build your layout at eye-level then you can't see the out of gaugeness! 😋
OO used to be common in the states, but it was a different track gauge than HO. HO won out over OO in the 1940s, and today there are very, VERY few people who still model American OO gauge
I 100% prefer 1:87 (it´s the leading scale here in Europe, aside from the UK ofcoarse), however OO still holds superiority in the narrow gauge market (which is 009, and for everyone else H0e (or H0n30, but i don´t see anybody using that name for it aside from the Wikipedia article)). Which kinda sucks since i prefer having European (mainly German or Polish) narrow gauge trains on my (not built yet) layout and those are thus harder to find.
As a model train enthusiast and I had my first HO scale rails train that I got in TX I think OO scale is pretty much the same thing as HO I might be getting the A1s, tank engines etc
And for some reason, Accurascale and Dapol list the scale as “1:76.2”
OK so I have been staying away from HO for no reason then, I can use either on either
*if I don't care about true scale that is*
👍 I ALWAYS wondered. Now I know. Hope the rest of 2024 is as fulfilling. 😂
So oo guage is disporportionate to the track?
How am i going to sleep at night now?
I think you could easily run both size stock and locos together?
Does OO run on AC or DC
DC
So how big would a 14xx be in ho scale since if the flying scotsman would be that small then how smalle would a 14xx tank engine be?
Don’t have one to show you. It would be nearly 13% smaller
Hi i am from India and I love trains.
I'm British. Thanks for showing the difference graphically like that, but I don't see how it's a win-win situation though. As you have shown you cannot combine the two, for instance you could not replicate the Scotsman's or the Royal Scot's visit to America. It does mean that an American locomotive can fit on a British scenic layout without demolishing station platforms and bridges but what would be the point of doing that anyway? I model in O gauge and we have the same problem. British is a bigger scale, 1/43, American 1/48. I am in the process of constructing 1/43 scale American. There is a very small British HO scale group and a HO scale Scotsman does exist, but finding one is going to be difficult. I reckon 3D printing will dramatically change things for the British HO scale group in the future.
Yes I see what you mean. I mainly called it a win win because of the both scales running on the same track, that's where the win win ends. There are some people that their layouts are more for the fun of running trains rather than scale accuracy and like running both scales. I don't run my Flying Scotsman on my HO layout because I like to model realistic scale size and realistic scenery, and that I prefer it keep it DC only. I brought the Flying Scotsman for my Christmas village setup. My HO layout is DCC. The only OO things on my layout are two original British Minis because they are such small cars in real life. Please watch my recent videos on my channel. Also watch my Trainfest 2022 Part 1 video I just uploaded. At the 29 minute mark I show you all of this. ua-cam.com/video/dqkQetPoRB0/v-deo.html. Hope this clears anything up.
@@AndyMicoley1995 I like many things British, like the Scotsman, but I'm afraid I've never liked the original Mini (except the Wolseley / Riley versions) and I'm actually ashamed of it being a British icon. I went for the Fiat 126 instead as my first car. Anyway, glad you are separating the two scales. Yes I know that many modellers just like to see trains running, no matter the accuracy. I've never understood that. For me for a model layout to be interesting it has to do 'what it says on the tin' i.e. it has to actually model the real thing, both in its physical detail and its movement. Anyway, I do see some very good detail and movement on many parts of your videos 😀
@@richardarcher3435 Sorry to hear you don’t care for the mini. I liked watching Mr Bean and he had a mini. I think that’s the only reason I am drawn to the car. Thanks! You are welcome! You take care! God Bless!
These kinds of things don't really matter until people start complicating the picture by including things like narrow gauge along with their standard, gauge. For example O-Gauge works out to 5 foot gauge at 1: 48 scale (-a little too wide for 56.5" standard gauge). Meanwhile On30 has become very popular, which is a little too narrow for three foot gauge in O-Scale.
Either of these is fine on their own, but then comes the fateful day when the On30 modeler wants to add some dual gauge. Laying a 30 inch gauged third rail between two 60 inch gauged rails puts that narrow-gauge rail pretty much dead center, so it winds up looking a great deal more like 3-Rail O gauge than dual-gauge track.
-so as a fix, some modelers have started modifying O Standard Gauge trains to run on narrower (1.00 inch vs. 1.25") gauge track and restore the dual gauge geometry. It's called On48.
I hope this will work (if I have them)
Hi, i have a question
Are there digital 00 scale models and if yes can i use the same remote that is used for the h0 scale?
Do you mean models that have DCC?
@@AndyMicoley1995 sorry i asked the question in a wrong way what i meant to ask was:
Can i use a H0 DCC controler with 00 locomotives that already have a decoder
@@anirror I’m sure you can. I use an NCE power cab.
@@AndyMicoley1995 Thank you very much, have a nice day
Will there be any problems if I mix ho oo scenery parts and vehicles because I went to the uk and got a bunch of oo stuff but back in Canada I have ho stuff. Should I use my oo scale houses people and trains if I make a layout?
If it’s typical scenery like trees. No problem. Scenery is just scenery. Unless you are super picky about the slightest increase in scale size I don’t see any problem in mixing the scales. It’s the fun in a hobby that counts and it’s your layout. I’ve seen other videos of OO and HO trains on the same layout.
@@AndyMicoley1995 ok thanks I really appreciate it
@@Pesce_sole no problem
british locomotives really were so small they had to make them big
I own two: a (broken) flying Scotsman and a (working) Santa Fe sd40-2
I got a Dominion of Canada OO Hornby running on my HO layout. Check it out. Thanks for posting🚂🇨🇦🇬🇧🇺🇲🙋
Saw your video. You are welcome.
That's great 👍
So now couldn’t they change it to ho scale
With 3D printing I reckon you will see more HO scale British.
Can oo, on30 and ho run on the same track and same controller?
Yes
@@AndyMicoley1995 Thank for responding quickly!
@@khrisw7120No problem
@@AndyMicoley1995 Which tracks do you recommend?
For “train set” track, I have used Bachmann EZ track. For my HO scale layout, most of it is Atlas Code 83. The code is the height of the rail. .083” tall. I have one Peco curved Switch/turnout that is Code 100. 0.100” tall since that piece doesn’t come in code 83. I used track sections and flex track. There are plenty of other manufacturers like Walthers and Micro Engineering.
Can HO run on 00
Yes, but if you would run OO on an HO layout they would look a bit out of scale - they would look a bit oversized.
Yes: in my early rolling-stock as a pre-teen, I had an HO Josef tank loco and a pair of HO coaches in Great Western/BR Western Region colours AND a Hornby GWR 57xx pannier tank and wagons. And they coupled perfectly well together - or at. least, that's what I remember - with tension-lock couplings.
So theres no diff
So basically 00 scale is a result of retardeness of UK toy industry in the post war period, because they could not fit damn motor inside.Then a century waste of money on a toy scale.
I don't care... I run N scale 😁