Right now I’m breeding a massive shine bug army. Already got a specialized sleet wheat Bristle blossoms are next to be mutated. The best mutation appears to be exuberant. I got one random exuberant mealwood seed from random shine bugs around the wild mealwood I left in. Sadly it makes plants require darkness so you have issues trying to meet the radiation requirement with shine bugs.
You were absolutely correct about the temp of the water increasing as it turns to ice being due to phase changes. Transforming from one state to another involves energy, more energy than the exact boiling or freezing point of a substance. They use this to make those liquid reusable hand warmers by having the warmer be effectively supercooled by having the chemical inside (I forget which) being super concentrated but with no nucleation sites to start freezing. When you knead the packs they start to very quickly freeze at normal temperatures which causes them to heat up due to the phase change. The actual amount of heat generated is pretty decent but it doesn't last long, as it's only generated as the liquid freezes and then starts cooling. This is just one of the many, many small useless facts I have learned in my long days on the internet. On another note, I'm really enjoying the nuclear series my good man, keep it up!
I've got a farm of Sleet Wheat (Exuberant) and Bristle Blossoms (also Exuberant), so that I can make absurd amounts of berry sludge. Since it's the same food bonus as Barbecue, and lasts forever... I figured why not? (Edited: forgot to mention, Bristle Berry (Exuberant) no longer requires light!)
My request for a clip of reactor goes boom fulfilled. But it looks more like a pawn throwing tantrum rather than an antigrain explosion if compared to something in rimworld
I hope the developers gives us a choice of difficulty eventually, then they can make bigger explosions at higher difficulties, and other hazards like radiation and slime could be more hazardous. Right now it's all pretty easygoing...
It's interestings, that they applied a 50% extra resources needed for the Exuberant one, to try and balance it out. Except that cost is *per cycle.* Since the plant grows in 4 times less cycles, you will actually be paying roughly 1/3 of the resources per harvest.
Assuming a decent farmer you can apply one farmers touch and that goes from 37.5% resource cost to 18.75% resource cost. You do have to pay for 5kg of fertilizer though so their is a cost to doing it, but doing the numbers it is totally worth it.
IRL it takes a little "extra" heat to freeze or melt things. Maybe the devs change it to mimic it with that jump in temperature (14:34). *If* they changed it, it would be interesting to see if it affected petroleum boilers in some way
You are right. Switching the state of matter takes more energy than changing the temperature of the that matter. At least for water that's true. Nice touch if devs did this for that purpose.
I think it was implemented to stop things state changing rapidly from frozen to unfrozen. Other wise you could end up with tiles flashing back and forth causing lag.
If you get mutant balm lillies, you could run a drecko farm that provides meat for frost burgers, dirt via rot piles to supply your sleet wheat, and a steady flow of reed fibre, all for zero resources.
19:31 Says the man who built an ice chilling machine right next to a tank of hot nuclear waste, even sharing one of its walls for the ice and steam chamber. Love the videos, FJ!
i love oni but im too stupid to have any longevity in play, so its not very fun. watching your videos makes me very impressed because you seem so knowledgeable!! i can live vicariously through your videos hahaha
With the pips and the superspecialized sleet wheat grains, you don't need to supply it with cold water. All you need to do is control the temperature of the room and have wild sleet wheat plants growing there With +100% yield, you should need only half of what it would have required in the past
I think I may end up planting a few variants until I can get my hands on enough exuberant seeds. We will need pepper nuts for bread and bristle blossoms for berry sludge.
@@FrancisJohnYT I just spend several hundred cycles mutating sleetwheat and no longer have any unidentified mutations in my list. It would appear that EXHUBERANT IS NO LONGER a mutation that SLEETWHEAT can have... :( [EDIT: I was wrong and just very unlucky] Not sure what is the best option now, maybe juicyfruits? Also you do need a minimum of 25rads/cycle to grow any mutated plant, seems to me that would be hard to do in a wild farm...
To supply plants with water whilst keeping their temperature well below the freezing point of water would require adding a cooling system within the farming room to keep the room, including the plants, at a desired cool temperature, whisking away any heat added by the "hot" water that you feed them (just as you might wish to stay in a cool room whilst enjoying a hot meal fresh from the oven), while the water would need to be kept in insulated piping (just as the oven that's cooking your hot meal is insulated to keep the heat inside from escaping the oven, or your hot meal, until the door is opened, and the hot meal is taken out of the oven).
Yeah, I was eyeballing the temp difference and the lead was pretty terrible. So I cut back in and replaced it with gold, was lucky that tank was so easy to get into.
14:37 My guess it's a game trick, in real world if you freeze an amount of water it will change the temperature up to a certain point (around 0C depending on pressure etc) and the rest of energy is then spend on changing water into ice (ie. water drops to 0C, then ice at 0C starts forming until all of the water is frozen and then ice starts to go under 0C - but bare in mind this is a very simplified scenario). However in the game because in one tile you can have either water or ice the energy required to phase transition must be used at once and since the only power source for this process is the heat itselv, it has to be consumed from somewhere thus the temperature rises a little bit. It may be (you can check this if free time if you want) that reversing this process yields reverse result - the water right after changing from ice should have the temperature a bit lower than the ice had. This is most probably to account for the law of conservation of energy and if the devs didn't account for it you probably could bug it to make infinite cooling without using electircal energy
I think the reason for the slight increase in temperature after the water freezes is to simulate the extra energy needed to change phases. It’s simulating the extra cooling needed for the freeze.
You can feed any temperature water to plants if you run a cooling loop right above the farm tile to keep them cool - even 95C water from a geyser will work fine.
I tried that on the mini base map, it was a disaster. The water in the hydroponics tiles shared it's heat and stifled everything. I tried several solutions but none of them were sustainable.
A few things I want to mention: 1. The way you built the sleet farm is ok if you’re growing nosh beans and you’re using a cooler for a large pool of ethanol. However, plants don’t care about the temperature of liquids they are fed. Just use insulated pipes for the feed lines and you can just use the 95 C water just fine. 2. Berry sludge uses 5 sleet wheat grain for each 4000 kcal bar. With that said you get 8000kcals for the cost of one 4400 kcal pepper bread. it has the same stats as BBQ, but doesn’t require cooks as the microbe musher is universal.
1. I tried feeding plants 95C water back on the mini base map, the problem was the hydro tile leak heat so they whole place quickly turned into a furnace and stifled the crops. I tried dribbling in the water and lots of other tricks, could never get it to work sustainably. 2. Berry sludge uses 1 bristle berry and 5 sleet wheat. The sleet wheat provides 2000 kcal and the bristly berry provides the other 2000 kcal (you can cook it into gristle berry)
@@FrancisJohnYT place liquid on the sleet wheat with a cooling line running over it. alternatively, run a cooling line through metal, or diamond tiles under the hydroponics. berry sldge shows up beside the bbq in the consumption page with the same +8 status. the game doesn't divide up the kcals for berry sludge.
The thing with the polluted ice being warmer than the water it was frozen from actually has a basis in reality. When water freezes it gives up energy in order to move from a liquid to a solid, this energy is expanded the easiest way it can be. Which is as heat funnily enough.
Just looked back at this video 8 months later and noticed something. If you turn the grains into frost burn or pepper bread, its 400 calories per grain. However, if you make berry sludge, that is 800 calories per grain (assuming you grow the necessary amount of bristle berries with it). That means, if you apply everything to an exuberant sleet wheat, bringing its growth time down to 1.8 cycles, you can feed 8 duplicants per sleet wheat grain, and as a bonus berry sludge never goes off. That is insane
You might have a use for all that nuclear waste when it forms a solid tile it will emit radiation and pips can plant in it, however it doesn’t seem to form a tile unless it’s 1500ish kg of liquid in that tile anything less and it will give you debris and nuclear waste seems to be like water in a sense where only about 1000kg will exist in a one tile space before trying to push into another tile so you’ll have to compress it or you can just plant wheezeworts
The 1kg in the pipe trick would work just fine, their might be some minor complications from using it their always is with any method you use in ONI :) I just figured the 10kg pipe was fine and since we are pulling from the 90C salt water geyser it might be nice to have a bit of a buffer. In short I just figured 10kg and a bit of fine tuning was easier than 1kg and extra low temp.
It would be nice if the impact on morale was reduced when dups only eat one type of food. Like: oh, I'm sick of barbecue, pepper bread... We would have to explore other food sources. As the dups go through the cycles, the morale bonuses would return to normal. ***Sorry, this isn't my first language, feel free to correct me.
I understand that the mutated plant trait 'Exuberant' is possibly the best (circumstances and context) but having to pay 50% more water and dirt is a hefty price, including all the various refining equipment, pipe infrastructure, power demand, water from geysers, oil production and so on.
overall i believe its more efficient, because if they grow faster than they need less per cycle, although I dont actually know how plants work in that respect
getting 18*4 sleetwheat every 18 cycles for 30 kg of water per cycle is better than getting 18*1 sleetwheat every 18 cycles for 20 kg of water per cycle
I doubt they will nerf it, but I could be wrong. As it is pip planting is free food and so is shove vole starvation ranching. This gives people an incentive to make farms again. It's not free but it's cheap enough and small enough to compete. While also giving you access to higher quality food.
It doesn't take more fertiliser for the exuberant, it takes 4.5 * 7.5 = 33.75, vs the original which is 18 * 5 = 90. Though i am sure there is a break even with already fast growing plants it is an excellent mutation.
Did some calculations for mutated plants. Here are multipliers of yield per fertilizer compared to base one: Exuberant 2,67 Wildish 2,23 Superspecialized 2 Bountiful 1,67 Leafy 1,6 Easygoing 1,5 Specialized 1,5 So the Exuberant is the best and Specialized is absolute worst, considering bigger constrains on temperature and the same yield per fertilizer as an Easygoing.
When things freeze they do generate a small amount of heat irl. That would account for the slight temp change. So it makes sense to be included in the game.
It takes a surprising amount of energy to change phase irl. For example you need 80 cal/g to melt 0 °C ice into 0 °C water which is the same than you need to heat 0 °C water to 80 °C. For vaporisation it's even more: boiling 100 °C water to 100 °C steam takes 500 cal/g. This is why perspiration is so effective. With 500 cal/g you could heat up 100 °C steam to around 1000 °C
I think it would be possible to grow that ultra cold sleet wheat if you would be cooling the tile and environment around enough and water would be in insulated pipes. Idk if it wouldnt freeze in tile
-Why don't you set up a few radbolt- -generators to irradiate the insulated- -tiles facing the sleet wheat farm? Then- -you can get more rads outside the- -reactor. A few more radbolt generators- -on the other side firing directly onto the- -farm tiles should improve things nicely.- EDIT: Won't work. You need too many radbolts.
I can see why they added extra food rot when they added such a massive buff to crops. Which in turn makes Berry Sludge even more OP. I was hoping you'd use nuclear waste for the chillbox instead of water. I'm curious as to was frozen nuclear waste looks like.
Nuclear waste would have been great as a chillbox, but the water was right there already and that nuclear waste was 200C. Would have taken an age to cool it all down to the right temp.
23:56 go to bed! You're waking up in 7 hours! :P I have actually been wondering whether bunker tiles might be a way to shield your base from any reactor overload. If you do a layer of insulated tiles on the outside, and bunker tiles on the inside right after, you might be able to prevent any overload damage, since they kind of look like meteors? I havn't tested it though.. Edit: Seems to work. Encased 3 sides with bunker tiles and one without. The one without was completely smashed and made a nice mess. The 3 sides with bunker tiles were perfectly fine. So you can technically protect yourself with some steel and extra space, although i'm not sure what it does to the rads.
Counter flow the cold salt water with the hot fresh water. U loss nothing but heat and it takes a small gold box. Doesn't even need insulation tho u probably will
sleet wheat is back yess i remember the good old days where we woulld have wall to wall farms of these things XD then they made them cost resorces to farm so we pipd them XD
I need to be more careful showing browser stuff, I turn off the bookmarks bar before hand. Also should hide the clock, now everyone knows I was up late :)
I wonder isnt nuclear waste an more ideal Icebox fluid? Like it freezes at 23° that means it freezes earlier but it also has a lot higher heat capacity then water. Even if you use 10-12 tons of liquid. And since you have a excess of Liquid waste. Wouldn't that be useful?
It was more convenience, the water was right there already I just had to build around it. Second the nuclear waste is 200C and would take way longer to cool down. But you are right the nuclear waste is ideal as an icebox fluid.
@@FrancisJohnYT I wonder is it better to use nuclear waste as iceboxs for steam vent tamers because they have this high capacity? Meaning you can actually use this increased capacity to cool down even hot steam vents with it? Also yeah thats a good reason not to use it in your case. I just wonder how vercetile this "waste" product actually is. Since it has a good freezing temp, Also I just realized. can plants grow on them? Like making natural tiles with waste seems effortless xD It seems like a REALLY powerful fluid/metal
@@Speiger I did some playing and it has a few quirks. It stacks to 1000kg like water but if you freeze it you get debris. You need to compress it to about 1500kg before you cool it if you want to form a tile. Tiles formed this way emit radiation :) So it's very useful but it takes a few extra steps to make it work right.
Hey Juat to say thank you for all your efforts and help, just a question, you say you linked save game file in description but i was wondering if you could do a quick nugget on how to open and use them please (for old people )
It's a case of downloading the save and then moving/copying it to the save game folder. Their is a wiki page that tells you where the save file location is depending on the OS you are using. If you have the DLS it's saved in the cloud save folder. oxygennotincluded.fandom.com/wiki/Save_file_locations
So you teelling me that i can feed 3 dup colony AND handfull of pokeshless with one plant? ok now i gona plant some weesworths and see if i can mutate them without reactor
You can plant them wild with pips, but wild plants grow 4 times slower. You end up with mutated plants that grow at the same speed as domesticated even though they are planted wild by pips.
It looks like you're probably going to run domesticated farms, but an idea to play with: It looks like you had plenty of nuclear waste that you're venting excess of out to space. If you compressed and froze the waste you could make radioactive natural tile. I think it's something like every 2000kg = 25rads in the adjacent 4 tiles. Since waste freeze at a reasonable temp it should be possible to either make self radiating natural tiles for pip planting, or concentrate that all into one tile for an easy rad generator.
Can you do pip wild planting of the Exuberant Sleet Wheat seeds? If so, do they still behave like wild seeds, or does the mutation mean that they would still need dirt & water when wild planted?
With the amount of water dupes create using the restroom, I want to know how water balanced this can get. Since you can also sieve p dirt out too and compost that it's gotta be amazing for resource usage.
Wild pip planting will always win because it's free, but this allows you to support a massive number of dupes with a tiny farm. It will be a while before we see the full ramifications of this in terms of designs. Think of the options for sustainable rockets.
They are going to patch this out so fast, you should cherish it while it works. They will make mutated sleet wheat drop regular seeds instead, calling it now. Same for the other plants that drop their seeds as produce.
It doesn't matter if they drop regular sleet wheat seeds. As long as they stay planted when you harvest them, they will churn out sleet wheat for cooking, mutated or not.
Soooo.... can you plant the mutated plants with Pips? Would that make Nosh Beans viable? I already wild farmed them _because_ they are unpopular but it was a mess and was taking up half the map to feed 20 dupes... Yeah now I know why they are unpopular....
Why didn't you add a storage container of cooler nuclear waste into the loop? So anything added to replenish the loss would average out temp before entering the loop, and would have a nice surplus waiting to loop in.
Doh I was not clear about that. Nuclear waste ejects itself from any container once a day not just aquatuners. Have not tested metal refinery's yet but I assume they are the same.
I must be missing something, isn't there a downside of the mutated wheatgrain producing food poisoning germs? Does this get removed during the cooking process or something? I gave up trying to do ONI myself a while ago now - I leave it to the experts xD
Spaced Out! is highly recommended, but if you prefer playing a finished product (not having regular changes to the game), then you'd be better off waiting, as this dlc is still far from leaving Early Access. Been enjoying the new space program so far, and the latest update added some old-school mechanics on top (drillcone on ships and ore-fields in place of the base-game space exploration)
I am totally biased as ONI is a big favorite of mine. Pluses for me are the regular changes it keeps the game fresh however not everyone is a fan of that. The big asteroid start is much more fun to start on, the rockets now are more varied and have different functions. In general the game is easier to hit sustainability but you have lots more late game options to do silly over the top stuff. I suppose the question is are you tired of your current set of games? Does this look like something you could sink 40 hours into?
I remember that you used a wild sleet wheat farm in one of your old videos. Do you think it's beneficial to let pips plant the seeds? I don't really remember if the plant stayed inside the tile after the growing period
What do you reckon Klei plans to do with all that nuclear waste? I know in reality nuclear waste can be reprocessed to extract more energy but ONI is quite far away from realistic in most respects.
I'm not sure, running a reactor generates an absolutely monstrous amount. The water you put in is not consumed. So it turns a small amount of enriched uranium into about 1000 times more mass but in liquid waste.
I smell a nerf coming to ether mutations in general or just sleet wheat and maybe nosh beans, also If a pip plants a mutant seed does it still get the bonuses?
Temp.Shift plates have a higher mass (800kg), giving a more stable transfer compared to a metal tile (100kg). This just my guess as to why, I'd probably use metal tile aswell
Temp shift plate allows you to inject temp faster, but a metal tile probably would have been a smarter choice. We will give the metal tile a go for the next crop section.
@@avery24e You only get infected dupes if they breathe oxygen with zombie spores. It's actually pretty hard to do without infect co2/natural gas mixing with oxygen. Same reason food with slimelung is perfectly safe to eat, and the reverse is true for food poisoning, oxygen with it is perfectly safe to breathe.
Oh, I best check the plastic press, I have most likely fed it some zombie petroleum. That would have released some CO2 gas that could have the spores in it. Mix that with some O2 and it could be a problem.
I mean in theory yes, but you would still have to mine out the space for the reactors first. Also it produced Corium tiles you have to mine out anyway. So in practice it would be way more inefficient that just mining it normally. But yeah... it would be a fun way to do things.
Don't think it's possible on this build yet, the game is really slow and chugs a lot already. I'll have to do a big sweep and see if that improves performance.
F.Lux: you're waking up in 7 hours
Francis: shush I'm researching crop mutations
And here i am watching this at 4 am working at 9...
Right now I’m breeding a massive shine bug army. Already got a specialized sleet wheat Bristle blossoms are next to be mutated.
The best mutation appears to be exuberant. I got one random exuberant mealwood seed from random shine bugs around the wild mealwood I left in. Sadly it makes plants require darkness so you have issues trying to meet the radiation requirement with shine bugs.
Brick in the bugs with gold, for some reason it blocks very little radiation. Well that is my plan when I get around to shine bugs.
Did you wake up in 7 hours like the alarm told you to? Literally burning the midnight oil there Francis.
Yes I did, managed to make it to work on time. Well physically, mentally I think a bit of me was still in bed.
You could feed an army of pokeshells with all those rot piles.
You were absolutely correct about the temp of the water increasing as it turns to ice being due to phase changes. Transforming from one state to another involves energy, more energy than the exact boiling or freezing point of a substance. They use this to make those liquid reusable hand warmers by having the warmer be effectively supercooled by having the chemical inside (I forget which) being super concentrated but with no nucleation sites to start freezing. When you knead the packs they start to very quickly freeze at normal temperatures which causes them to heat up due to the phase change. The actual amount of heat generated is pretty decent but it doesn't last long, as it's only generated as the liquid freezes and then starts cooling.
This is just one of the many, many small useless facts I have learned in my long days on the internet.
On another note, I'm really enjoying the nuclear series my good man, keep it up!
Getting out of the shower just in time to hear I got scrubbed. Serendipitous. ☺
I've got a farm of Sleet Wheat (Exuberant) and Bristle Blossoms (also Exuberant), so that I can make absurd amounts of berry sludge. Since it's the same food bonus as Barbecue, and lasts forever... I figured why not? (Edited: forgot to mention, Bristle Berry (Exuberant) no longer requires light!)
My request for a clip of reactor goes boom fulfilled.
But it looks more like a pawn throwing tantrum rather than an antigrain explosion if compared to something in rimworld
I know it seems a bit weak, I originally only had one exploding but it was so weak I had to do a line of them instead.
Weak but sooo messy !
You're disappointed it's weak - *until it happens to you.* Then you will be thanking the developers it's ONLY as bad as it is.
I hope the developers gives us a choice of difficulty eventually, then they can make bigger explosions at higher difficulties, and other hazards like radiation and slime could be more hazardous. Right now it's all pretty easygoing...
Knowing Klei's sense of humor, honestly I'd expect the reactor to get up and throw a tantrum.
It's interestings, that they applied a 50% extra resources needed for the Exuberant one, to try and balance it out.
Except that cost is *per cycle.* Since the plant grows in 4 times less cycles, you will actually be paying roughly 1/3 of the resources per harvest.
1.5x resources / 4x speed = 3/8 resources consumed
This is big brain time
@@tetrikitty1686 Yeah. I didn't stated that cuz I think that fraction is ugly.
Assuming a decent farmer you can apply one farmers touch and that goes from 37.5% resource cost to 18.75% resource cost. You do have to pay for 5kg of fertilizer though so their is a cost to doing it, but doing the numbers it is totally worth it.
Those Sleet wheat are so strong, and I might actually start using them
Most compact form of food production I can find, might be possible to make a rocket produce enough food to be self sustained.
for that I'll love to see you build the most compact sustainable rocket. like a mini baby base series. :)
IRL it takes a little "extra" heat to freeze or melt things. Maybe the devs change it to mimic it with that jump in temperature (14:34). *If* they changed it, it would be interesting to see if it affected petroleum boilers in some way
You are right. Switching the state of matter takes more energy than changing the temperature of the that matter. At least for water that's true. Nice touch if devs did this for that purpose.
I think it was implemented to stop things state changing rapidly from frozen to unfrozen. Other wise you could end up with tiles flashing back and forth causing lag.
If you get mutant balm lillies, you could run a drecko farm that provides meat for frost burgers, dirt via rot piles to supply your sleet wheat, and a steady flow of reed fibre, all for zero resources.
I believe the reasoning for the ice temperature change (near 15:10) is to model the release of the latent heat of solidification/fusion.
19:31 Says the man who built an ice chilling machine right next to a tank of hot nuclear waste, even sharing one of its walls for the ice and steam chamber. Love the videos, FJ!
That reminded me of when I made a melter that had 4000c next to -200c only separated by one tile... the one time it leaked rock gas went all over
This takes me back to that magma planet in the last playthrough when we grew sleet wheat on the opposite side of a wall touching magma. Good times.
i love oni but im too stupid to have any longevity in play, so its not very fun. watching your videos makes me very impressed because you seem so knowledgeable!! i can live vicariously through your videos hahaha
To prevent stifling, maybe add a tank reservoir right before the plants, so the water is always at a constant value.
It would be funny if grubgrubs turned into big angry monsters that could destroy your base if they were exposed to radiation...
Centipedes and Scythers, ONI edition 🤣
I learned thermofluids and nuclear power with Francis, now I'm learning genetic manipulation for agricultural application.
With the pips and the superspecialized sleet wheat grains, you don't need to supply it with cold water.
All you need to do is control the temperature of the room and have wild sleet wheat plants growing there
With +100% yield, you should need only half of what it would have required in the past
with that logic... exuberant should be the best one, since you can plant them as wild, so you actually don't need to feed them
@@poijnve3912 Makes sense
I was referring to the variant that he already had, but that works too
I think I may end up planting a few variants until I can get my hands on enough exuberant seeds. We will need pepper nuts for bread and bristle blossoms for berry sludge.
@@FrancisJohnYT I just spend several hundred cycles mutating sleetwheat and no longer have any unidentified mutations in my list.
It would appear that EXHUBERANT IS NO LONGER a mutation that SLEETWHEAT can have... :( [EDIT: I was wrong and just very unlucky]
Not sure what is the best option now, maybe juicyfruits?
Also you do need a minimum of 25rads/cycle to grow any mutated plant, seems to me that would be hard to do in a wild farm...
that explosion at the end was fun.
i expected it to be even worse, but still it was fun
To supply plants with water whilst keeping their temperature well below the freezing point of water would require adding a cooling system within the farming room to keep the room, including the plants, at a desired cool temperature, whisking away any heat added by the "hot" water that you feed them (just as you might wish to stay in a cool room whilst enjoying a hot meal fresh from the oven), while the water would need to be kept in insulated piping (just as the oven that's cooking your hot meal is insulated to keep the heat inside from escaping the oven, or your hot meal, until the door is opened, and the hot meal is taken out of the oven).
Cooling the water - "There's no way to speed this up" - Lead radiant pipes aren't great, I think everything else is better! Nice work though!
Did you make them gold later on?
Yeah, I was eyeballing the temp difference and the lead was pretty terrible. So I cut back in and replaced it with gold, was lucky that tank was so easy to get into.
23:52 ah yes, the classic sleepless ONI nights
You can push water below its freezing temperatures in packets of 1 kilogram or less
30:36 ihatespedingmoneybutyou'reapparentlyworthit LOL!
14:37 My guess it's a game trick, in real world if you freeze an amount of water it will change the temperature up to a certain point (around 0C depending on pressure etc) and the rest of energy is then spend on changing water into ice (ie. water drops to 0C, then ice at 0C starts forming until all of the water is frozen and then ice starts to go under 0C - but bare in mind this is a very simplified scenario).
However in the game because in one tile you can have either water or ice the energy required to phase transition must be used at once and since the only power source for this process is the heat itselv, it has to be consumed from somewhere thus the temperature rises a little bit.
It may be (you can check this if free time if you want) that reversing this process yields reverse result - the water right after changing from ice should have the temperature a bit lower than the ice had.
This is most probably to account for the law of conservation of energy and if the devs didn't account for it you probably could bug it to make infinite cooling without using electircal energy
I think the reason for the slight increase in temperature after the water freezes is to simulate the extra energy needed to change phases. It’s simulating the extra cooling needed for the freeze.
Pepperidge farm remembers the farm station
Plant mutation!!! I'm likening your videos before even watching them. Good job on awesome content
You can feed any temperature water to plants if you run a cooling loop right above the farm tile to keep them cool - even 95C water from a geyser will work fine.
I tried that on the mini base map, it was a disaster. The water in the hydroponics tiles shared it's heat and stifled everything. I tried several solutions but none of them were sustainable.
Lol I loved the ending credits reactor meltdowns.❤️
Great videos as always - and now as an addition, I am really enjoying closing titles music! :)
"Nuclear waste is great" - FJ
Imagine if we humans could produce any amount of nuclear waste and just thrown it out in the vacuum of space? Yeah it would be great...
That end tho 🤣
hope you are less busy again soon, rly enjoyed the replies in the comments :)
Have been flat out the last couple of weeks, hence the erratic uploads and near zero comment replies. Should be back to normal from tomorrow onward.
@@FrancisJohnYT thats great to hear :D
30:23 Chernobyl 2: Electric Boogaloo
A few things I want to mention:
1. The way you built the sleet farm is ok if you’re growing nosh beans and you’re using a cooler for a large pool of ethanol. However, plants don’t care about the temperature of liquids they are fed. Just use insulated pipes for the feed lines and you can just use the 95 C water just fine.
2. Berry sludge uses 5 sleet wheat grain for each 4000 kcal bar. With that said you get 8000kcals for the cost of one 4400 kcal pepper bread. it has the same stats as BBQ, but doesn’t require cooks as the microbe musher is universal.
1. I tried feeding plants 95C water back on the mini base map, the problem was the hydro tile leak heat so they whole place quickly turned into a furnace and stifled the crops. I tried dribbling in the water and lots of other tricks, could never get it to work sustainably.
2. Berry sludge uses 1 bristle berry and 5 sleet wheat. The sleet wheat provides 2000 kcal and the bristly berry provides the other 2000 kcal (you can cook it into gristle berry)
@@FrancisJohnYT place liquid on the sleet wheat with a cooling line running over it. alternatively, run a cooling line through metal, or diamond tiles under the hydroponics.
berry sldge shows up beside the bbq in the consumption page with the same +8 status. the game doesn't divide up the kcals for berry sludge.
What a beautiful outro
Mutant seeds by Monsanto, apparently. Can't let you mass-produce the mutant seeds.
The thing with the polluted ice being warmer than the water it was frozen from actually has a basis in reality. When water freezes it gives up energy in order to move from a liquid to a solid, this energy is expanded the easiest way it can be. Which is as heat funnily enough.
Thank you for the meltdown at the end!
Thanks FJ. Awesome video.
Just looked back at this video 8 months later and noticed something. If you turn the grains into frost burn or pepper bread, its 400 calories per grain. However, if you make berry sludge, that is 800 calories per grain (assuming you grow the necessary amount of bristle berries with it). That means, if you apply everything to an exuberant sleet wheat, bringing its growth time down to 1.8 cycles, you can feed 8 duplicants per sleet wheat grain, and as a bonus berry sludge never goes off. That is insane
You might have a use for all that nuclear waste when it forms a solid tile it will emit radiation and pips can plant in it, however it doesn’t seem to form a tile unless it’s 1500ish kg of liquid in that tile anything less and it will give you debris and nuclear waste seems to be like water in a sense where only about 1000kg will exist in a one tile space before trying to push into another tile so you’ll have to compress it or you can just plant wheezeworts
Good to know, that will make it far easier to wild plant mutated plants. Getting stable 25 rads is tricky otherwise.
Francis can’t you use the “less than 1kg of fluid and no state change” trick to grow that supercharged mutation?
Yes but it's not worth it
The water would freeze once in the farm tile.
@Andrew Renzema Nuclear Reactor with >400°C water really proves your point 😉
The 1kg in the pipe trick would work just fine, their might be some minor complications from using it their always is with any method you use in ONI :)
I just figured the 10kg pipe was fine and since we are pulling from the 90C salt water geyser it might be nice to have a bit of a buffer. In short I just figured 10kg and a bit of fine tuning was easier than 1kg and extra low temp.
It would be nice if the impact on morale was reduced when dups only eat one type of food. Like: oh, I'm sick of barbecue, pepper bread... We would have to explore other food sources. As the dups go through the cycles, the morale bonuses would return to normal.
***Sorry, this isn't my first language, feel free to correct me.
I understand that the mutated plant trait 'Exuberant' is possibly the best (circumstances and context) but having to pay 50% more water and dirt is a hefty price, including all the various refining equipment, pipe infrastructure, power demand, water from geysers, oil production and so on.
overall i believe its more efficient, because if they grow faster than they need less per cycle, although I dont actually know how plants work in that respect
getting 18*4 sleetwheat every 18 cycles for 30 kg of water per cycle is better than getting 18*1 sleetwheat every 18 cycles for 20 kg of water per cycle
@@bastian5861 It is an impressive amount, so naturally its going to get nerfed into the ground, enjoy it while it lasts.
I doubt they will nerf it, but I could be wrong. As it is pip planting is free food and so is shove vole starvation ranching. This gives people an incentive to make farms again. It's not free but it's cheap enough and small enough to compete. While also giving you access to higher quality food.
It doesn't take more fertiliser for the exuberant, it takes 4.5 * 7.5 = 33.75, vs the original which is 18 * 5 = 90. Though i am sure there is a break even with already fast growing plants it is an excellent mutation.
Did some calculations for mutated plants. Here are multipliers of yield per fertilizer compared to base one:
Exuberant 2,67
Wildish 2,23
Superspecialized 2
Bountiful 1,67
Leafy 1,6
Easygoing 1,5
Specialized 1,5
So the Exuberant is the best and Specialized is absolute worst, considering bigger constrains on temperature and the same yield per fertilizer as an Easygoing.
When things freeze they do generate a small amount of heat irl. That would account for the slight temp change. So it makes sense to be included in the game.
It takes a surprising amount of energy to change phase irl. For example you need 80 cal/g to melt 0 °C ice into 0 °C water which is the same than you need to heat 0 °C water to 80 °C. For vaporisation it's even more: boiling 100 °C water to 100 °C steam takes 500 cal/g. This is why perspiration is so effective. With 500 cal/g you could heat up 100 °C steam to around 1000 °C
@@agusdallalba true. I was referring to the heat generated by fusion. It was why the water was -3.6 but the ice was -2.2.
Aaaaaaaaand we're back!
You could probably run a couple extra steam turbines on the heat of the nuclear waste that your just venting to space :)
love the test map tips
at 22:33: do I see that your fresh water feed for your reactor is disconnected from the tank? smells like catastrophe ;)
I think it would be possible to grow that ultra cold sleet wheat if you would be cooling the tile and environment around enough and water would be in insulated pipes. Idk if it wouldnt freeze in tile
Add grub grubs into the fray, if they survive in that temperature XD
:D the subtitles read pincha peppernuts as pinch of pepperonis
Drinking game - every time he says "incredibly powerful", take a shot
That sounds like a dangerous game :)
-Why don't you set up a few radbolt- -generators to irradiate the insulated- -tiles facing the sleet wheat farm? Then- -you can get more rads outside the- -reactor. A few more radbolt generators- -on the other side firing directly onto the- -farm tiles should improve things nicely.-
EDIT: Won't work. You need too many radbolts.
And a few mirrors to spread the rads on the outskirts in the farm
I was under the impression that rad bolt radiation fades rapidly. You have to keep firing constantly to get any rads out of it. Am I wrong?
@@FrancisJohnYT No, you're not. I checked.
I can see why they added extra food rot when they added such a massive buff to crops. Which in turn makes Berry Sludge even more OP.
I was hoping you'd use nuclear waste for the chillbox instead of water. I'm curious as to was frozen nuclear waste looks like.
He cant because it freezes at 30 C but ice box needs to be way more cold like -30 . Waste would freeze and damag the pipes.
@@mahmutucak2293 I think he meant using nuclear waste as the ice block material instead of water. not as the coolant in the pipes
@@bastian5861 oh youre right. Dumb of me.
Agreed! And I think it has higher thermal conductivity too
Nuclear waste would have been great as a chillbox, but the water was right there already and that nuclear waste was 200C. Would have taken an age to cool it all down to the right temp.
23:56 go to bed! You're waking up in 7 hours! :P
I have actually been wondering whether bunker tiles might be a way to shield your base from any reactor overload. If you do a layer of insulated tiles on the outside, and bunker tiles on the inside right after, you might be able to prevent any overload damage, since they kind of look like meteors? I havn't tested it though..
Edit: Seems to work. Encased 3 sides with bunker tiles and one without. The one without was completely smashed and made a nice mess. The 3 sides with bunker tiles were perfectly fine. So you can technically protect yourself with some steel and extra space, although i'm not sure what it does to the rads.
Been wondering about the bunker tiles myself, but too spaced out when playing to actually test it. Thanks fot that 😁
Counter flow the cold salt water with the hot fresh water. U loss nothing but heat and it takes a small gold box. Doesn't even need insulation tho u probably will
Great outro^^
Ahoi. Are you planning to continue your oni base lovin series? It's great entertainment, i like it a lot!
At long last, a way to feed the resin tree
You should find the resin tree planet to produce isoresin. Then you can make viscogel
sleet wheat is back yess i remember the good old days where we woulld have wall to wall farms of these things XD then they made them cost resorces to farm so we pipd them XD
Just curious are you going todo another Factorio play?
After this ONI series is finished I want to do a mega base in Factorio, I know what I want to do as well. It should be a weird looking base.
wow, the amount of energy this baseshould use daily
aaaand we're finally back
got scared by that f.lux notification there haha
I need to be more careful showing browser stuff, I turn off the bookmarks bar before hand. Also should hide the clock, now everyone knows I was up late :)
I wonder isnt nuclear waste an more ideal Icebox fluid? Like it freezes at 23° that means it freezes earlier but it also has a lot higher heat capacity then water. Even if you use 10-12 tons of liquid. And since you have a excess of Liquid waste. Wouldn't that be useful?
It was more convenience, the water was right there already I just had to build around it. Second the nuclear waste is 200C and would take way longer to cool down. But you are right the nuclear waste is ideal as an icebox fluid.
@@FrancisJohnYT I wonder is it better to use nuclear waste as iceboxs for steam vent tamers because they have this high capacity? Meaning you can actually use this increased capacity to cool down even hot steam vents with it?
Also yeah thats a good reason not to use it in your case. I just wonder how vercetile this "waste" product actually is. Since it has a good freezing temp, Also I just realized. can plants grow on them? Like making natural tiles with waste seems effortless xD
It seems like a REALLY powerful fluid/metal
@@Speiger I did some playing and it has a few quirks. It stacks to 1000kg like water but if you freeze it you get debris. You need to compress it to about 1500kg before you cool it if you want to form a tile. Tiles formed this way emit radiation :)
So it's very useful but it takes a few extra steps to make it work right.
Hey Juat to say thank you for all your efforts and help, just a question, you say you linked save game file in description but i was wondering if you could do a quick nugget on how to open and use them please (for old people )
It's a case of downloading the save and then moving/copying it to the save game folder. Their is a wiki page that tells you where the save file location is depending on the OS you are using. If you have the DLS it's saved in the cloud save folder.
oxygennotincluded.fandom.com/wiki/Save_file_locations
So you teelling me that i can feed 3 dup colony AND handfull of pokeshless with one plant? ok now i gona plant some weesworths and see if i can mutate them without reactor
You can so it without a reactor easily, wheeze or even easier masses of shine bugs should do it. But I had to use a reactor, it was was thematic.
@@FrancisJohnYT space gives some rads too
6:42 reverse power indicator on turbine? Lol
5:04-5:09 oooh! something exciting! and at 15:23
I wonder how this is effected by wild planting?
You can plant them wild with pips, but wild plants grow 4 times slower. You end up with mutated plants that grow at the same speed as domesticated even though they are planted wild by pips.
It looks like you're probably going to run domesticated farms, but an idea to play with: It looks like you had plenty of nuclear waste that you're venting excess of out to space. If you compressed and froze the waste you could make radioactive natural tile. I think it's something like every 2000kg = 25rads in the adjacent 4 tiles. Since waste freeze at a reasonable temp it should be possible to either make self radiating natural tiles for pip planting, or concentrate that all into one tile for an easy rad generator.
Nuclear waste tiles are on the cards for sure, some wild planting of mutants is going to be necessary.
ohh, so the percentage change is multiplicative and not additive.. very cool
Can you do pip wild planting of the Exuberant Sleet Wheat seeds? If so, do they still behave like wild seeds, or does the mutation mean that they would still need dirt & water when wild planted?
With the amount of water dupes create using the restroom, I want to know how water balanced this can get. Since you can also sieve p dirt out too and compost that it's gotta be amazing for resource usage.
Wild pip planting will always win because it's free, but this allows you to support a massive number of dupes with a tiny farm. It will be a while before we see the full ramifications of this in terms of designs. Think of the options for sustainable rockets.
They are going to patch this out so fast, you should cherish it while it works. They will make mutated sleet wheat drop regular seeds instead, calling it now. Same for the other plants that drop their seeds as produce.
It doesn't matter if they drop regular sleet wheat seeds. As long as they stay planted when you harvest them, they will churn out sleet wheat for cooking, mutated or not.
@@austinglander1337 Oh duh right. Im stupid. I totally mixed it up with Rimworld and thought plants get destroyed when harvested. Now I feel dumb...
@@LivingNihilism when following @Francis John, mixing together the games is a regular occurrence 😉
Soooo.... can you plant the mutated plants with Pips? Would that make Nosh Beans viable?
I already wild farmed them _because_ they are unpopular but it was a mess and was taking up half the map to feed 20 dupes... Yeah now I know why they are unpopular....
The thing about mutated plants is: they need radiation so..... not sure how you can plants with pips with all those extra criteria.
@@williamlai29 plant the seed first with pips, then remove the pips and then irradate everything?
@@poijnve3912 Yes, as I mention, the irradation is the issue here. How do you plan to do that?
@@williamlai29 with a wheezewort?
@@poijnve3912 Ok my mistake there, I got confuse between mutating the plant and sustaining the plants. Two different requirement.
Why didn't you add a storage container of cooler nuclear waste into the loop?
So anything added to replenish the loss would average out temp before entering the loop, and would have a nice surplus waiting to loop in.
Doh I was not clear about that.
Nuclear waste ejects itself from any container once a day not just aquatuners. Have not tested metal refinery's yet but I assume they are the same.
@@FrancisJohnYT no, you were clear about that later. I simply failed to find this comment to remove it.
Thanks for the reply though :)
Question: Can Pips plant Exuberant seeds if yes how long is the growth period on it?
Yes and 75% faster than wild, so for sleet wheat that is 18 cycles.
I must be missing something, isn't there a downside of the mutated wheatgrain producing food poisoning germs? Does this get removed during the cooking process or something? I gave up trying to do ONI myself a while ago now - I leave it to the experts xD
Any cooking would kill it or a quick stop in a chlorine pool.
Would you recommend the spaced out DLC so far? Definitely looks better than Royalty for Rimworld.
Spaced Out! is highly recommended, but if you prefer playing a finished product (not having regular changes to the game), then you'd be better off waiting, as this dlc is still far from leaving Early Access. Been enjoying the new space program so far, and the latest update added some old-school mechanics on top (drillcone on ships and ore-fields in place of the base-game space exploration)
I am totally biased as ONI is a big favorite of mine. Pluses for me are the regular changes it keeps the game fresh however not everyone is a fan of that. The big asteroid start is much more fun to start on, the rockets now are more varied and have different functions. In general the game is easier to hit sustainability but you have lots more late game options to do silly over the top stuff. I suppose the question is are you tired of your current set of games? Does this look like something you could sink 40 hours into?
I remember that you used a wild sleet wheat farm in one of your old videos. Do you think it's beneficial to let pips plant the seeds? I don't really remember if the plant stayed inside the tile after the growing period
Assuming Pips can plant them and you have enough radiation sources this would be great for rockets.
23:00 you didn't reconnect the backup reactor water supply...
We have 5 tons of back water in the tank, if we need more than that we will most likely over pressurise the reactors anyway.
Is there any plant (maybe with the easygoing mutation) that will take the hot nuclear waste straight from the reactor?😂
What do you reckon Klei plans to do with all that nuclear waste? I know in reality nuclear waste can be reprocessed to extract more energy but ONI is quite far away from realistic in most respects.
I'm not sure, running a reactor generates an absolutely monstrous amount. The water you put in is not consumed. So it turns a small amount of enriched uranium into about 1000 times more mass but in liquid waste.
I smell a nerf coming to ether mutations in general or just sleet wheat and maybe nosh beans, also If a pip plants a mutant seed does it still get the bonuses?
Pip planted mutations still work just fine.
Francis, why using the temp shift plate to transfer freezing to the door and not metal tile? wouldnt the ice will melt to water and flood the block?
Temp.Shift plates have a higher mass (800kg), giving a more stable transfer compared to a metal tile (100kg). This just my guess as to why, I'd probably use metal tile aswell
Temp shift plate allows you to inject temp faster, but a metal tile probably would have been a smarter choice. We will give the metal tile a go for the next crop section.
@@FrancisJohnYT thanks Francis!
The Petrolium you put on the Steam turbine floor have zombie spores in it, are you sure you dont have it spread all over the base?
So was some past oil. Luckily no one has gotten infected yet.
@@avery24e You only get infected dupes if they breathe oxygen with zombie spores. It's actually pretty hard to do without infect co2/natural gas mixing with oxygen. Same reason food with slimelung is perfectly safe to eat, and the reverse is true for food poisoning, oxygen with it is perfectly safe to breathe.
Oh, I best check the plastic press, I have most likely fed it some zombie petroleum. That would have released some CO2 gas that could have the spores in it. Mix that with some O2 and it could be a problem.
Hey Francis, can we use reactors for mining biomes?
Probably, but it'd be more efficient to just have the dupes do it, or invest in the power for the Auto Miners.
Even if it worked, that sounds expensive.
@@salemprompthous3820 Just for fun. 😀
I mean in theory yes, but you would still have to mine out the space for the reactors first. Also it produced Corium tiles you have to mine out anyway. So in practice it would be way more inefficient that just mining it normally. But yeah... it would be a fun way to do things.
@@FrancisJohnYT Oh yes, the corium... 😅😂
Me after the first time you mentioned mutant plants: "can animals mutate too? Or they just get sick?
reactor go boom
Berry sludge gives 4000kcals for 5 grains, so double the usual calories from that. Also good astronaut food.
The extra 2000kcal come from the bristle berry. But yes it amazing for the astronauts.
could you do like the 144 or something dupes on dlc since the sleet wheat is so powerful
Don't think it's possible on this build yet, the game is really slow and chugs a lot already. I'll have to do a big sweep and see if that improves performance.
It's late at night and I'm having stupid ideas: What happens if you throw all the nuclear waste into the magma biome?