An in-depth look at Space Exploration in video games
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- Space… the final frontier... for humanity and game developers both, apparently.
0:00 - Introduction
2:02 - The History of Space Exploration
16:55 - Space Exploration in Modern Times
26:48 - Starfield
40:47 - No Man's Sky
53:32 - Elite Dangerous
1:24:43 - The Final Frontier
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First song is the Blue Danube Waltz. Other songs you might be looking for are probably various versions of David Bowie's Space Oddity, Life on Mars and Starman. Or maybe Rocket Man. - Ігри
Wow, I can't believe that NeverKnowsBest made a video that's only the length of a single average feature film. I was starting to believe that he'd never return to short form content.
Is this one of them tiktoks those teenagers keep talking about?
Tim rogers is the only one that can outshine him
This video is longer then the current starfail any% speedrun world record. Not joking. Its around 45 minutes. Can't remember how long exactly
And he was really quick with that!
He only made 2 vids that are almost 6hrs long. The rest are movie lengths.
A few things you may have not noticed about Elite Dangerous.
1. You can visit the Capital systems of several in-game faction (Sol, Achenar, Sirius and others) when you gain enough faction standing with them.
2. The skybox is real. Once I was at Barnard's star (20 LY from Earth), and noticed a set of stars that looked like the Orion Belt; then looked a bit better and noticed that was indeed the Orion constellation. If you fly to that region, you'll see how stars look like from that position, and everything in around 2-3K ly from Earth is NOT (completely) generated; most of the stuff comes from real astronomical data.
3. Because of how hyperspace jump works, doubling jump range more than halves travel time. Even relatively basic ships you could certainly afford in the video may have increased your travel distance by about 3 times.
4. Neutron star and white dwarf jets overcharge the hyperdrive, giving you about 3 times you jump range for one jump. There are a few notable "neutron star highways", that further help cutting down travel time around the galaxy.
5. With all the upgrades and following a neutron-star route, you can have jump ranges of 200-300ly.
Still, getting to Sagittarius* takes easily a couple of days.
one thing that's really cool about the skybox is how it changes as you travel. I was in a thick nebulaic zone and the skybox was incredibly dark, there were probably 1000-2000 stars visible which is a fraction of what you expect from earth's sky. Then I jumped into the centre of the area where loads of star formation was happening and the sky was practically blinding. There were gigantic blue bright stars flooding my vision from every direction. A few more jumps and it was behind me, looking back I could see this patch of bright blue stars in an otherwise black sky. One of the cooler experiences in ED.
I never experienced it myself but some people glitched to outside the milky way to see it side on and honestly, even a second hand, recorded experience inside a *video* game of the milky way from the outside was deeply moving in a way that's hard to explain.
I found that Elite didn't support my playstyle very well. You had to do hours of mining in order to do the fun activities(Unless mining is your thing) such as combat, hauling and exploration. A group of Elite youtubers once asked FDev how much money you should be making(after the mining focused update where some players were making trillions), and they couldn't give an answer.
@@the11382 That simply isn't true, I did maybe an hour of mining and that was purely to get access to a late game npc. You can mine, trade, haul or explore to get to more expensive stuff. By now all activities more or less give equal rewards where you can do whatever you like best and make enough money to sustain your playstyle.
@@the11382 You're really not required to chase a meta money making method to get to properly play the game. You get money from everything you do, so just do what seems fun to you and the credits will follow. By the time you have the cash to buy and outfit a proper mining ship, you could use that money for an exploration or bounty hunting focused ship instead. Maybe you'll earn a bit less but who cares, at least you're not staring at an asteroid for hours.
Neutron star hopping is something you can get used to but it's both extremely risky in comparison to just hopping in between main sequence stars and quite frankly extremely spooky lol. It's the absolute best way of traveling long range but cozy exploration really becomes a radical sport at times.
The story of a spaceship commander who winged and cheated his way into his position because he was so excited for space exploration, got some initial lucky success, only to get lost in the middle of nowhere with no fuel and shooting himself out of hopelessness is very cool, and I think says a lot about what space exploration actually is compared to what it is made to seem like by media.
He just wanted to explore space, he wasn't ready for what awaited him. This winter in cinemas.
lmaoooo
..i dont think you know what space exploration actually is.
@@neuropath6465haha yeah the prospect of someone being able to fake it into the position of commandeering a spaceship in the real world is unrealistic, but I'm pretty sure he's alluding to what the grim reality of independent space exploration would be in the setting most of these games present, where space travel is widely accessible
Space Exploration is to us what was sea exploration for our old ancestors. Lot's of old stories about people getting stranded in the ocean.
@4thgreenburg. A skilled conman can pretend himself everywhere he wants, if the there is some slight chance of opportunity. There were fake surgeons which worked for 30 years for example. There were also a bunch of fake fighter plane piolots and commanders during WW1 and 2.
If you ever play Elite again try going way "above" or "below" the galactic plane and just watch the stars slowly disappear with every jump until the only one you can see is the one you jumped in from, it's a bit eerie
I tried this once. At some point there stops being any star in front of you, and you can just fly forward at 2000 times the speed of light into the abyss knowing full well you will never arrive anywhere. It is actually a very powerful moment.
Or you can hunt for Raxxla...
I remember first time with tribbles, hadn't seen star trek or such before. Darn, it was "worth it to buy the damn BBC micro computer" (yeah it was on C=64 later) :D Many a night played, many lectures sleep deprived...
i loved looking back up at the galactic plane after doing that, it looked so cool seeing the galaxy from the "outside"
@@KaiJasonAnd they told us space was the last frontier...
The voice of Neverknowsbest is the sound of a cosy, crisp evening. Wind lashing at the window as I rest my weary head in the dark and listen.
lol
@@rawallon I bet you're gen z aren't you?
*snaps fingers* I dig it
Sounds like the most relaxing time ive ever had
I know what to expect. He never cuts to a loud sound effect and never starts to yell. So I use these videos as background noise to sleep. The low murmur is soothing.
1:19:42 This isn't entirely true. You can visit the Sol system and it's decently well detailed, but you need a Federation superpower rank of Petty Officer to get the permit to go there. I wouldn't expect you to learn that though because you can only really find that out on the wiki lol.
Can confirm. It's true.
Getting to visit the Sol system was one of the most exciting things I did in ED.
It gets better. Due to the current event the permit requirement has been removed. Anyone can visit it.
I was done with ED, but had that TIR + HOTAS space sim itch. Looking for something to do, I bought one of the newer ships and did the Sol Permit grind on a weekend.
Imagine my disappointment when I couldn't even land on Lunar. Landing there, with the Earth rising/setting in the background, is one of the most obvious 'tourist attractions' imaginable. Instead we can visit Voyager, because apparently ED doesn't have enough flying in straight lines already. What a bad joke.
The description does say you can visit with a permit and who gives out the permit but it doesn't really say how
Nerrrrrd lmao
Elite Dangerous is seriously special. For all it’s problems, no game has ever done “space” the justice this game does. I have a hard time playing now a days, but those first 200 hours were immaculate
Same here. o7
Elite dangerous is so close and its infuriating
I loved that game but I just can’t believe they discontinued console support. Such a shame
Those first few hundred hours, pure magic. The following thousands, pure hell. All joking aside i just came back to it and I'm loving it again.
Nothing more spacey than finding a plant or two 3000 light years away from nearest permanently settled area. Glad they made conflict zones and RESs so you can practise true flying.
Very good video. I worked on Elite Dangerous in the early days, first half of 2013. I was involved with collecting star data and figuring out how the ingame factions would be placed, based on their home star systems from the previous game (whose galaxy map was much less accurate) and the real life star positions. The stars were quite inconveniently positioned in real life.
As an astronomer, and Cmdr, I salute you!
I would of added more designations to stars, but that makes the game that much better!
Thank you for your quite important contribution to this gem!
I haven't watched the video yet, but I just wanted to thank you, NeverKnowsBest, for continuing to make these videos. I know you said a while back that you weren't sure if you wanted to continue because of a variety of reasons. I always enjoy listening to your videos, and once my financial situation has stabilized a bit more I will certainly make sure to throw some of that surplus over to your patreon. Hope you are doing great!
I second this and would also like to add that I am happy to watch whatever you decide to publish, games-related or otherwise. Yours is some of the best content on UA-cam.
+2
Here here!
Saaaaaame❤
What he does is so unique and awesome
When I sit and think about the original Elite, it blows my mind that they got so close to the ideal so early
The actual Elite isn't bad either, but the porblem with the game is the clunky UI, that isn't just worst than X4 ui, but X4 at least has the excuse that it is an space empire building / ship combat sim.
@@efxnews4776 Interesting as when I played ED when first released, I felt the UI was pretty sublime, nicely integrated into the world and functional. I wonder if over time and the additional content simply stretched it too far. Its also odd that with the original release I never had any of the problems in this video, but I guess that was due to it being a far simpler game overall and an almost exact copy of the 1984 game.
@@efxnews4776 I also had more fun in X4 than in Elite. Being mulltiplayer and its limits on changing the world made Elite Dangerous a pretty boring game.
Big +, the old Elite games are SO underrated these days. People see the oldschool graphics and assume the game will just be Asteroids. Kind of a shame that most of these showcase style videos only tend to rehash the 3 or 4 most mainstream contemporary space games. I think the oldschool games and their clones (Oolite, Pioneer) provide better, more 'realistic' single player experiences than pay-to-win MMO titles like ED or Star Citizen. Wish more people knew about/covered these open source hidden gems.
@@noisecrime they re-did the whole ui and galaxy map, it's pretty great but there's just too much stuff I think. it's just overwhelming when you're new but it becomes second nature in a bit. kinda like paradox games.
Randomly finding a wrecked Thargoid ship while driving around on a planet was one of the coolest and terrifying things I've experienced in a game. I can't describe how big and intimidating it was. The fact that I wasn't expecting anything at all just made it so much more exciting.
That time when farming Meta Alloys and one just shows up randomly, kills your power, then proceeds to shower you with that green and yellow trouser soiling beam, seemingly trying to inhale both you and the geo formation only to ignore you and fly off afterward like nothing happened… that right there was one of the single most thrilling and exhilarating gaming experiences I’ve ever had, and it was that moment when I realized just how special the game truly is.
I managed to solo defeat a thargoid hydra once and it was one of the most memorable battles i had in any game.
Outer Wilds is peak space exploration, discovery and storytelling. When another game comes along that comes close to capturing the magic that that game has please let me know.
This isn't a list of space exploration games, but for close to that magic: Dark Souls, Breath of the Wild, Morrowind, Minecraft, Ultima VII
All massively popular games, and for good reason, but those are probably the ones which come closest to the magic of exploration for me. I've head good things about Elden Ring, but don't have anything which can run it.
I was coming here specifically to see if Outer Wilds was mentioned
@@KyriosHeptagrammaton I've literally played them all, but thanks for the recommendations. I think Paradise Killer has a somewhat similar exploration/storytelling vibe if you haven't played it, I would like to recommend that to you in return. :)
@@Jonoridge I have not! I'll keep a lookout thank you. Maybe the original Legend of Zelda?
Closest one to BOTW in my opinion.
Also Rainworld sort of. It's a rare kind of magic to find.
The only thing that came close was the DLC 😭
The GOAT of video game essayists gifts us another one. Truly appreciate you man.
the world in No Man's Sky is built up around the story. Everything is simulated right down to the player character, who's sole purpose in life is to experience the world the Atlas built. So it kind of makes sense to me that the game feels safe, as it is an experience meant for appreciation, wrapped in the fabric of a space game
Obviously this is a very different type of game with a different target audience, but Spore (for all it's many faults and shortcomings) is another interesting space game worth mentioning. A lot of things in Spore are aplicable to the discuassion of space exploration games. Mainly the size of the game world and how the player is able to traverse it (the galaxy is large but not unmanageable), and how that world is populated. Spore is really a fascinating game when you start thinking about all the things it was trying to juggle.
A universe populated by player created content (lifeforms, vehicles, buildings, etc) is an almost shockingly obvious solution to the samey feeling that plagues many space games. It's nice to imagine how such a content creation system could be expanded in a modern game targeted at a more mature audience.
The section on Elite Dangerous was absolutely awesome and hilarious; keep up the good work 👍
My favorite space exploration game ever is Starsector. I can probably write an entire assay in the comment section about it but for the sake of brevity I'll condense it into one sentence:
Starsector combines danger, opportunities and wanderlust with a robust sandbox to create a nearly perfect space exploration gameplay.
Every new playthrough is like 14 year old you booted up Skyrim for the first time, but without bugs.
Starsector is NOT like Skyrim at all.
When you decide to rob some merchant fleet, it will have an impact on the economy and planet stability, which you can then exploit further if desired. Skyrim has nothing like that.
As for exploration, I don't find it that engaging anymore. After a few playthroughs you just know what's out there and become very efficient with exploration. It becomes less of a question of what you'll find, but where. But with Sustained Burn and time acceleration, it's at least not as tedious as other games. In just 30-45 minutes you can explore a decent chunk of the sector, depending on your fleet and it's easily combined with missions that take you outside the core worlds.
Anyways, I'll always recommend Starsector to fans of the genre. What it lacks in fancy immersive 3D graphics, it makes up for with depth and it's very well polished. Mods only enhance the experience, rather than fixing it. Easily one of my top 5 games ever for sure and I've played a lot of games.
Man, you are boring af@@fonesrphunny7242
@@fonesrphunny7242 the modding community around starsector is fantastic, and the devs are still developing it. Technically it's still in beta but even with mods I've rarely encountered bugs and the game is absolutely playable.
The mods are so good!
@@fonesrphunny7242 See, that's when it is time to sell all the best blueprints to the pirates, and maybe a few nanoforges for good measure!
I don't play multi-player games, but that Fuel Rats thing is one of the coolest things I've ever heard video game wise.
Another great video, this guy makes work shifts much better.
I personally prefer a game series like Mass Effect, that doesn't let you explore the universe but is very good at making you feel like said universe exists.
Space exploration is just too hard to do because of the scale necessary
There's a reason Mass Effect 2 resonates so much with so many despite having arguably the least to do with the main story, it does the best job at making the galaxy feel lived in and expansive. Walking into Omega's Afterlife is absolutely as epic today as it was in 2010.
"C'mon, let me in!"
Halo.
I like games that respect my time. Mass Effect did that well.
Here is our story. It has a beginning. A middle. And an end. You go on a journey and enjoy it. Then go away.
These randomly generated worlds don't give me the feeling that my time I'd respected.
The problem with big scale is lack of focus. A coherent and interesting story can not utilize thousands of planets.
I want something more like Kerbel space. It's neither story nor exploration, but it feels kind of an accomplishment. No doubt tho Mass effect 1-3 is overall the best space experience.
I think space exploration works best when its just one of game design elements. A Mass Effect with a better space exploration system would be the ideal implementation.
Yes. Basically, this goes back to original Elite. As an oldie ,I remember even back then, most people said "it sounds a great idea, but everywhere is much the same and ultimately boring", While a few seem to get totally hooked on this shallow repetition. It's very attractive to a niche. And it's the same today with this kind of space game.
Hopefully with a better plot than Bioware's now tired and cliche 'chosen one/starchild saves the world and everyone suck their cock' story.
I think soace exploration works best when it's interesting
Mass Effect actually has other species, cultures, values and societies built in to the game, I think that's what's missing from these games is there is no other inhabitants except humans, there is no intelligent life, no procedurally generated aliens with their own procedurally generated culture's, history and factions.
This leaves the games feeling empty, there's only so many flora, fungi and bacterium you can find in the galaxy before you start to wonder where all the intelligent species are
@@MasterIceyy I disagree. Sapient alien life can definitely be interesting, but that doesn't mean games without it aren't. Absense of sapient aliens can be used as an easy way to make a game feel more real and grounded. I actually disliked how almost every alien race in Mass Effect looked, acted, and talked, exactly like humans. It felt cheap and unrealistic.
I think the irony with Star Citizen is that the things it keeps getting criticized for are what make it resemble space exploration more than any other game.
An impossibly massive and never-ending project, shooting for the stars, getting there step by step and when zoomed out it seems like it didn't actually get anywhere yet, but when you zoom in it is filled with amazing stuff.
Playing Star Citizen as I watch this
The problem with SC is that everybody thinks its a MMO, even tho the company primarily develops an engine and a singleplayer game. Most of the money went into the later two, so it always seems as if SC just doesnt get anywhere or at least not as fast as one would expect it to, given the time and money, because the priority is something akin to a black hole, as we know very little about the singleplayer game. Most people probably dont even know that it exists.
@@SETHthegodofchaos
It's being built as an MMO.
Some of the tech they spent years on is exclusively MMO tech.
Problem is that Morrowind feels more otherworldly location than Starfield. They should have stuck to fewer planets, and made more weird places, races and flora and fauna
I said this myself after 20 hours into starfield, before I quit because the game was bad (imo). I think that if Starfield honed it the fuck in, and did maybe 50 planets and put more time into making each one of those 50 very distinct, the game would have benefitted.
the reality is that the bethesda RPG formula doesn't lend itself to large-scale proc-gen like this. Honestly it makes me sad, knowing that TESVI is going to actually just be The Elder Mid
@@aegisofficial3819 yeah, exactly. Under 50. Personally I think maybe under 20 is what they could really make as distinct. Anyways the strength of recent Bethesda games (Morrowind onwards) has been unique handcrafted locations, so it would make more sense to make unique planets with interesting things to find there. That would make exploration feel more interesting.
@@tj-co9go I'm literally doing a skyrim playthrough right now (This time, heavily modded, last time was closer to vanilla) and the game is still pretty good.
I miss morrowind. I need Skywind to release so bad.
@@tj-co9go Funny thing is, I'm pretty sure Morrowind onwards also use procedural generation, they just used it better.
My experience of flying to the other side of the galaxy and back over two weeks of arduous effort is a happy memory, including the time I flew dangerously close to a black hole, and seeing my ship's paint all streaked and pitted from countless jumps. Also, Elite Dangerous does the space mining thing amazingly well. And dogfighting in VR is just next level.
Great video as always. The best space exploration game I've ever played is the Outer Wilds. I would love to hear your unique thoughts the Outer Wilds
Same. I actually searched the comments for mentions of it. Nothing has captured the feeling of space exploration the same way.
Play fallout New Vegas outer wilds is boring
Also how old are you? You must be young to say the outer wilds is the best space game? Have you never played mass effect 2!? Halo 2? You have to be 15
@@tifapanties25Someone’s salty and can’t play games if they don’t have pew-pew guns in them.
Someone sure is *not* 15.
Like, man, I even like ME2, but saying that Outer Wilds is only for teens is insane.
@@tifapanties25 How is a game about coming to terms with inevitable death for 15 year olds?
Wow i never really thought about that before. We physically went to outer space before creating simulations (video games) of being in space.
That's pretty wild to think about.
But now we've reversed it and stopped going into space, meanwhile focussing all our effort on simulations.
The fastest speed travelled by a human increased exponentially from around 1750 to 1970. In 1970, the fastest human speed was achieved. On the Apollo flight. Since then, it hasn't increased, it's stopped for the first time in 250 years. The fastest airplane flight was Concord, also in the early 1970's. Also, not beaten since then.
As a member of the Freespace 2 modding community, I'm really glad to see it mentioned in this video. Great essay!
Surprised -not to see any mention of- how little there was on Kerbal space program, since its focus on realistic orbital mechanics makes it fairly unique from other space exploration games while still being a game about exploring space, but very nice video! I always really like your historical retrospectives of genres, and this one was exceptional.
18:00 (albeit only for 15 seconds)
@@Locutusofborg41 oops, somehow missed that.
Kerbal is more about how you get there. But there is nothing at your destination to explore.
@@AssassinDUDE666 There's nothing in the real world either. KSP does let you conduct science like a real Earth counterpart would do, but it turns out that the science of collecting samples and returning them to Kerbal isn't deeply engaging content on it's own. You have to enjoy the thrill of the journey.
But still, there is no any mention of Orbiter and Space Shuttle Mission, that's a big disappointment....
Minecraft is still exciting to explore because the seeds can spit out very cool formations sometimes and it's usually the more surreal/unlikely formations we enjoy so I wonder why these space games just didn't crank up the "weirdness" of their generation.
I'd like more weirdness too but then you'd also get a lot more jank which would be used by people making bug compilation like Crowbcat. They probably don't want the bad press.
Minecraft pull it of because everything is a cube of the same size.
minecraft actually more and more trying to limit the weirdness esp on bedrock. If you look on how people find weird seeds like chasm seeds, it is revealed that those weird stuffs got patched :(
Shrimple. Same reason why microbes are more wacky than large organisms. Complexity scales with size.
The whole marketing vibe of Starfield was that it was gonna be focused on exploration and like, the wonders of space. Naively I was genuinely hoping to see some stuff we'd never seen in a space game before like tidally locked moons, exoplanets where it rained glass and iron and great glittering clouds of alcohol unfurling into the vast reaches of infinity. But all that stuffs really hard to code so Bethesda didn't bother. Shame!
I was also hoping we'd see some commentary on human space exploration. Off the top of my head I could imagine the usa and russia still trying to outperform each other with space exploration willy measuring contests hundreds of years into the future, china and saudi arabia turning entire planets into factories while building unsustainable orbital cities, billionaires getting themselves blown up etc etc. Ah well.
Yeah I was hoping there was some really strange stuff. With the weird stuff on earth imagine the crazy stuff in SPACE~
@@Garbageman28 nah Bethesda is lazy, so they just decide to destroy Earth over bs just to avoid to make a single Earth city in the game, it would be so simple to Bethesda to make a landing pad in a city like NY...
To be fair in videogames the vision of a futuristic Earth in a space opera setting, was better done so far by Mass Effect 3, we got to see Montreal at the begining of the game in the peak of humanity at least for some brief minutes and we saw London completely wreaked at the end of the game.
I'm glad they at least implemented the different gravities including zero G in some fights in space even if the latter is annoying. I read somewhere that earlier versions had more survival type elements where your fuel didn't instantly refill after a jump and such, but those got scrapped for the benefit of accessibility. That fills me with hope that someone will mod those aspects back in.
Bethesda has shown us what they can do, what their engine can do, so Starfield was 90% predictable.
Todd and the marketing team kept everything vague, so they could profit from people's expectations, as usual.
If Ubisoft has their formula for open world games, Bethesda has theirs with RPGs and it's underwhelming every time.
Outer Wilds was my kind of space exploration. I know you need to be in a certain kind of mood for that game, but i'm sure a lot of people tried it, walked around a little, didn't even take off from Timber Hearth and said "yeah this game's not for me".
I had 0 knowledge of what the game was like. Like didn't even know it was a space game. Started playing, thought "man this thing is laggy, and the controls are wonky, and the pathway is linear". Kept playing for some reason.
It is now my favourite game. The intro is kind of weak, but the realization that it's simulating a solar system down to tidal forces makes it worth it once you really start going.
@@KyriosHeptagrammatonI couldn't figure out the purpose of the game or what you were supposed to be doing. I'll have to go back and at least give it another shot. I went to a few planets and kept getting pulled all over the place because I sucked at flying the ship.
@@deviantarsenal it's mostly about solving mysteries and acquiring knowledge. In the beginning you can explore wherever to get a vague idea of what's going on, then start following up on whatever question or plot thread grabs your attention. It'll take you to different locations with cool puzzles and also tie into other plot threads. Once you have all the answers you'll know what to do.
@@deviantarsenal I think if you play for at least 22 minutes in a row you'll probably start having questions you want to answer.
The greatest game that we cannot talk about
There _was_ a story in Elite: Dangerous. For a year or so, they were doing daily updates in a news system tracking all of the stuff that was going on in the faction politics. And there was a pretty big Thargoid invasion in the vicinity of the Pleiades. And there was an accident in transporting a space station, and it's now in a distant arm of the galaxy, with now-active colonies. There's a lot that's gone on.
I'm sorry you didn't have a lot of fun in Elite. :(
The main issue is that it's not really baked into the game mechanically. FDev is able to add content the to the game, but all of the story explanation and such is explained outside of the game. There's not much in the way of actively questing the story of ED. Then again, it's still on brand as 99.99% of humans wouldn't bother chasing the Thargoids and would instead do their daily grind of mining.
@@Beakerbite That's the thing, though, it *was* baked into the game mechanically. They just stopped doing it a couple years in.
They didn't stop doing it, in fact the story is the main focus of the last 1.5 years of updates.
The Thargoids have properly invaded humanity now, with an ongoing war metagame where they invade systems and we have to work together to push them back again, while unraveling the mysteries of their technology.
@@ceres_o7 Oh, I know about that. I'm talking about the initial invasion when they were introduced and the news feeds that were flying around ingame at the time. I'm also talking about Jacques Station, which is something that _happened_ in that first couple years.
@@greyfade yeah I guess my comment was in reference to your statement that they stopped doing story a couple years in, they didn't. Story is stronger than ever, it's more well planned than ever and is showing no signs of slowing down.
To be fair to No Man's Sky being too convenient to the player, there's a host of sliders these days you can set to max difficulty. This changes the experience from the base 'normal' setting (which is completely devoid of any kind of jeopardy) and, for me, is a much more satisfying experience.
It is still to limited, also i find the lack of humanoid combat off putting. Like we have pirates, so why don't we have gorund combat with pirates?
They should stop making updates for nms and start working on No Mans Sky 2. Take all the lessons and ideas from the first one and make a more cohesive fleshed out game. Base defenses, turrets, orbital shipyards for ship building, capital ship building, a much much wider range of enemies and gas giants you can't land on you just die.
@@MSpotatoes Agreed. I'd love this.
@@MSpotatoesYeah, NMS is, imo, a masterpiece now after all the updates, but it has run its course. They should now work on a sequel that aims to surpass the original, taking all the lessons learnt and not just reimplementing them, but improving them
(On a side note, the idea of gas giant planets you can't land on is really cool, since there's already 99% ocean planets (with small patches of land sparsely spread out)
@@MSpotatoes There needs to be a purpose to adding all of that. Great, you can build turrets that defend your base but then what? You can look at it. To me, that's not the type of game I enjoy. It's just empty of meaning.
> gas giants you can't land on you just die
Why is that an important feature? You can't do anything with them, they are just there. Is the idea to just look at them and go "Yup, can't land there". Why should I pay money for that?
A 90 minutes video on my favourite genre by my favourite developer as I'm working on my own space sim, nice
Always great to get a notification for a new video of you!
Was just about to write a similar comment :)
yeah most anticipated red dot for me personally
one of my favorite and most disappointing game genres! love these documentaries. I will say though that the X series has way more influence on the genre then the time it was given in this video.
by far thats for sure
The X series I would say has marked my life in such a way that it has been in my username for 14 years
Thanks for always making such comprehensive and high-quality videos. It’s obvious you put a lot of research and work into these. We all appreciate it. 👍
Incredible amount of videos recently, don't forget to take breaks once in a while!
Stop it we need more videos
Pls don’t listen this guy
In Elite Dangerous you have head lights and night vision to help in dark places.
19:03 THANK YOU for mentioning Space Engineers! Many critics that look at the space genre will talk about the nichest of games completely missing this giant in the space sandbox genre. The developers are fully independent with their CEO owning 100% of the company making Space Engineers which is to this day so successful it's funding their other companies including AI development. It's been my main game since 2014 and just recently I've been flying around the moon on one of the EU servers where I've discovered a wreck of a base. I looked around inside the old underground ruin made by a long-gone player faction with a couple people still inside their cryo chambers. I found a long tunnel leading under the base which was likely how the attacker reached the reactor to disable the base defenses. It was among the best exploration moments I've had in any space game.
Still the best channel on UA-cam. Your analytical talent and perceptive way of observing and applying connections, either by causation of correlatoon or both is amazing. I always feel like your line of thinking unlocks my own trail of thought.
Thanks for deciding to keep giving us your content man, much love.
This channel consistently overdelivers! First time in a while I actually used the bell button.
After the disgrace of YT demonetizing your awesome video previously for no reason at all i am pleased to see you that you are dropping great videos frequently despite the asswipes, cudos brother
Man I can't tell you how much I enjoy your long form videos! I really hope you continue to come back to UA-cam on occasion because I know I'm not the only one that loves listening to your perspective on things.
You can actually visit the Sol system in Elite, you just need to get a permit. You can do this by reaching Petty Officer rank in the Federal Navy, which is done by doing missions for factions aligned with the Federation.
Another honorable mention that I really enjoy: Empyrion Galactic Survival. It's kind of like Space Engineer's jankier cousin
SE is a lot more technical and realistic, with thrust vectoring and all that, ESG is a lot more gameplay oriented, with more simplified spaceflight and actual enemies and missions to play
Disappointed that you didnt mention my favourite space exploration games; Escape Velocity! Proper neutonian physics dog fighting and a huge universe and storylines that hit all of the space tropes.
EV Nova was a fun one to play. Great story, and great exploration for what it was.
Thanks again for your amazing content! You are by far my favorite UA-camr. Rock on!
Listening to NeverKnowsBests arguments while working in homeoffice is such a delight. It enriches my everyday tasks with a well thought out narrative and makes me stay focused. This channel truly is a treasure. Thanks for all the effort and great video as always!
The Solar System in Elite Dangerous actually is visitable, but you do need to grind Federation rank
True, but it doesn’t take that long in practice.
or just play the game and get the rank naturally, always wanting to grind and reach stuff within 24 hours is why everyone burns out from the game
Elite Dangerous is still the best "space sim". It captures the vastness of space, the oppressive feel of the void just outside the canopy, while still having pleasant space trucking and at least some on foot gameplay. It's the closest to the sim dream so far.
Also, you have a night vision mode, but the game doesn't tell you 🤡
>the game doesn't tell you
ED in a nutshell.
Wonderful video! Love that you are still producing these absolute bangers!
Thank you, man, thanks for amazing content that you create. Truly the best you can find on UA-cam ❤
Freelancer will be forever my favorite spess game, nothing has quite hit that same sense of adventure since. We could have had Freelancer 2, instead we don't get Star Citizen.
You should try out this 3 games: Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, Everspace 2, SpaceBourne 2. RGO is basically a spiritual successor of Freelancer, while Everspace 2 (not 1 because the first one is a roguelike) is basically a open world rpg with spacehips.
And SpaceBourne 2 despite not finished yet and be made by one dev, is better than Starfield in terms of gameplay (you also have the ground combat) but pays homage to Freelancer too, by this is explicit in the first game where you don't have ground combat but you can walk around space stations and such, speaking on walk on space stations and such, X4 also has a pretty interesting take on the genre with the empire building mechanics.
FREELANCER! I just want a freelancer with battleships. ;x;
Freelancer might be my most replayed game, it was crazy how much there was to see after the main story finished.
@@efxnews4776you are 100% correct on these
Freelancer was just incredible for it's time - it also helped Chris Roberts net almost a billion in crowd funding lol
It's a shame you didn't mention X4: Foundations. Exploration in that game is wonderful, and the sectors of the game are full of incredible stuff to see, and it's chokefull of lore everywhere. Though in general you play X4 not for exploration, but for the incredible sandbox.
I completely agree with you! It is really a shame the X series are overlooked time and time again. Honestly - Turning a blind eye to a space game series that is running for 24 years already (the first game X-beyond The Frontier was released in 1999) is not a very nice thing to do...
@@jclosed2516I think a lot of that is because X4 is just not going to be a game for everyone, including those in the enthusiast camp of space sims. Being that it is more of a tycoon/empire building econ sim, a lot of the core parts of the game is left lacking that might be up to other people's tastes. There is a real lack of activities that feel good to do outside of, empire building. Then by the time you get to a point that empire is built you spend even more time in menus and not flying space ships. So if you want to just sandbox as a bounty hunter, finding any content at all to that is going to be incredibly prohibitive out of the box and without aid of mods. Dog fighting as well leaves a whole lot to be desired and the generally learning curve and confusing menu/submenu design of the UI can be extremely prohibitive to new players. Then, you have to have your crew at certain levels and skills in order to unlock very basic stuff, like advanced autotrading which is a must the further in the game you get.
He did mention it very briefly. Though, as much as I love the X series and X4 (currently doing a second playthrough), 'exploration' isn't a big focus of the game. It's less about simulating space travel, and more about simulating the activities of the factions within that space.
X does exploration in it's own way, but it's there, even if somewhat temporary, as at some point the universe transitions from unknown to something that almost feels like home 😁
Wasn't the exploration in X3 pretty good though? Finding ships and stuff, still looking for a game where I can scavenge or board abandoned ships more often (fairly rare in most games). Starsector is pretty good in that regard @@Pruvmerong
Keep the great work up dude, your videos are some of my favorite on the platform. I always get so excited to see your new video pop up in my feed. ❤
never stop posting. i love your channel so much. you're so underrated it's unreal.
I'm really sorry you had a rough time with Elite. The only reason I got as far as I had when I played was thanks to playing with a committed and friendly group. While that didn't fix the issues you (and I) had, it did get me through the boring parts to the more fun ones. My most memorable activity was wrangling the game's janky instancing to get our clan together to explore an alien ruin that hadn't yet been discovered by other players back when the thargoid plot was first taking off. It was really great, and I wish stuff like this was more encouraged!!
I haven't played Elite Dangerous but it sounds like the extreme space version of My Summer Car. It may be difficult and confusing at times but the stories it generates are absolutely legendary.
EVE is still better
@@Dumb-Comment They're different games. With so much nuance involved, a simplistic X is better than Y glosses over so much that is very relevant. Some aspects of ED are quite brilliantly realised, others I have no time for at all (such as the absurdly communistic nature of the various economies, which prevents organic out-of-the-norm gameplay from even being possible). Ironically in the context of the video, exploration is the one aspect of the game that was developed the least after initial launch, because Fdev adhered too much to the more vocal crowd who just wanted pew-pew in space, an issue which defined its eventual on-foot mechanic aswell. In the end, ED became very wide but rather shallow, though like the video says, if some aspect of what it does is the sort of gameplay one is looking for, then it'll be spot on.
I recommend the video about Elite Dangerous by UpIsNotJump, it has a good general overview while also highlighting some of its weaknesses.
Just watched most of your videos and i have to say i adore your calm voice and your deep analysis, i hope your videos never stop coming.
Long video essays like this, especially on video games, help me go through non-stop working sessions on my thesis. Your timing couldn't be better.
If Neverknowsbest doesn’t mention outerwilds I’m gonna flip.
I love the outer wilds, but I consider that more of a puzzle game than anything
@@nbkhnzzrSure, but Outer Wilds does still have its own style of space exploration. The way it compresses everything to make a way smaller, yet more compact experience is an interesting way to solve the problem of many other space exploration games, that being all the empty space with nothing to do. It's also a fairly realistic simulation in many ways, even if all the effects like gravity, quantum mechanics, star growth, etc. are on a very macroscopic scale. Like how you can fly to the sun station by matching its speed, and if you go to the center of a planet you become weightless.
@@basicbirch I consider the finding stuff in empty space to be exploration. In comparison, Outer Wilds practically shows you the entire solar system right in front of you. You just have to figure out how to use it to progress.
19:18
@@nbkhnzzr Outerwilds is a horror game
Oh man, hearing Distant Worlds from the Mass Effect series always puts me in a happy place. Nice to hear it being used in an adjacent context, considering the topic. 😅
Great video as always, keep it up, Never.
Heck yeah, new content always gets me excited.
I'm sure this will be just as much of a banger as per usual.
The blade runner cut in was amazing lol :) Congrats for putting it in. Really make my day :)))
Funfact: You can visit sol in elite dangerous but you have to grind missions for multiple hours for the federation in the game to rank up in the faction and get the permission.
You are making absolutely Great Videos btw.
A small mistake at around 7:10 You mention Starflight, Space Rogue then Star Control. But the footage of the later is actually from an excellent port of Starflight to the Genesis/Megadrive home consoles!
Thank you for your time and work!
Just as i finished the latest NMS expedition! Great narration, content and quality as usual mate. Keep them coming mate
I’ve played Elite Dangerous for a while and agree with almost everything you just said. Had a good laugh too. It was fascinating and even addictive to explore and simply f around. But oh my goodness, the learning curve is immense and poorly presented at first. I especially agree that a good campaign would’ve helped tremendously.
Just imagine, missions navigating through political struggles between factions to really understand the state of humanity in that future universe. Imagine missions with a real goal to help, or to challenge and defeat.
Imagine being a copilot tasked with basic commands in the first missions to help you with the many concepts of flying and the MANY dangers of space lol. To get into tricky situations while reducing the age old lame die and start again.
Imagine not having to spoil the only suspense/otherworldly aspect of the game provides with the Thargoids… I don’t know by suggesting weird things happening here and there, delivered by good characters that could be amazed, worried or daring.
I don’t know, Elite is such a perfect shell for something much more grandiose, other than the scale of the galaxy you’re partaking in.
Thank you for this video!
Every Halloween, Frontier drop in a little surprise that almost resembles a Fallout76-like quest. And every year I think “why isn’t there more of this??”
even though I've played a collective 200+ hours of Elite it still just never quite took hold, I agree with the sentiments about commitment to realism, it's painfully obvious how many critical systems were missing, and lucky for FDev the community was willing to fill that gap, I remember for at least the 1st year or 2 of the game there was no way in the game to log waypoints or points of interest or something. wasn't until years later they finally added Super Cruise Assist which took away some of the tedium because just keeping my hand steady on a flightstick doing absolutely nothing but managing my throttle and heading isn't really that exciting.
even then SC Assist fell way short of an actual autopilot, and a large number of the community were vehemently opposed to adding anything to the game that broke their version of what they considered "immersion" which never really added up for me since that version of immersion forces me to believe that 1000 years in the future all the spacecraft will have less advanced flight avionics than 1980s era passenger jets.
There are some really cool and immersive experiences to be had in that game, but also a great deal of frustration that results for only listening to a certain subset of the community.
@@matthamende6359 My thoughts exactly. My first time landing a ship, followed by a crash; I was like, really? A spaceship that can’t park itself? I was just too stubborn to quit and of course learned how it works. Ultimately though, when the auto-pilot module was installed on my ship, I never looked back and never missed landing by myself on stations. I do appreciate the concept of disabling it when you have to fly-in rogue style when required…
Learning how to play Elite is the best part of the game. Once you know how to play it's just a big grind.
Miscalculating your power draw and equipping the wrong reactor, leading to critical systems like oxygen getting shut down when you deploy your weapons, jettisoning your whole cargo trying to save power by disabling the hatch ( which opens it, it's a maglock system, doesn't work without juice ), destroying a valuable asteroid because you setup too many explosive charges, getting your ship stuck in the letterbox because it's way bigger than you thought, getting too close to a star and overheating, etc.
Your work is consistently well researched and thoughtfully crafted. Never expected a video quite like this, but you continue to surprise in the best ways!
Wow.... what a fantastic video! Thanks for making this. Excellent analysis of all the space games and really well written! Great job!
Elite is the most punishing game for commanders who fail to see the little button called "night vision" located on the same screen with "self destruct"; which is a visual aid for landing on the dark side of the planets/moons. I hate to admit, without a flight stick and even an analog throttle control (HOTAS - Hands on Throttle and Stick), Elite can be extremely daunting - yet there is still much more depth than you've explored. Do not lose hope, Commander o7.
o7
Here's my solution for making space explorations games:
1. Chose 10-20 "biomes" to base your planets on a la Outer Wilds
2. Make 5-10 variants of each biome. So 50-200 ish hand crafted very small planets.
3. Claim your game has 2-3 times that number.
4. Whenever a player visits a planet load up a randomly chosen one of your hand crafted planets which match the biome. Throw in a few shuffled around/ randomized features to keep the illusion stronger.
5. The players will never visit all 50-200 of your planets. You only need to load and save a handful of the pre-generated ones. This is similar to the "quantum Ogre" idea in D&D.
So instead of needing to make 2-3 times as many planets and have them all feel samey, the players will see that there is 200 planets out there, but only visit 40 or so, and never be the wiser.
Fun fact: this is almost exactly how planet generation works in no man's sky. Each biome has lists of ground covering, plants, terrain roughness, water presence, etc. So they only had to make 8 or 9 biomes to populate every planet in the universe
@@tacoterrorizer1862 But No Man's Sky has no quantum ogre. With my system you get "tricked" into going to hand made planets that are swapped in.
you are one of my favourite youtubers, thank you for the gorgeous content
So glad youre still uploading brother!
This was a great video. My favorite of the bunch is still ED but the others all have their places in the space genre and do deserve some praise for what they accomplish. Space for me is space mining in ED. Hoping in my Type-9, heading off to an asteroid belt looking for minerals is always relaxing, especially with a podcast or music in the background. And fun comes from the pirates constantly trying to harass me and steal my stuff, so I jump out in my little Condor fighter, blow em up, and get on with my mining. It isn't always the most profitable and I've had close calls, but for me at least, it is relaxing, and I always love seeing a big asteroid crack open. I haven't played in awhile though, other games take up my time and I really want a HOTAS to really immerse myself, but I look forward to diving back in when I get back too it.
New NKB video already? LET'S F**KING GOOOO!
Thank you for this video! It was awesome to watch thru! Can't imagine how much time you put into it! Excellent job! Thank you again
What an amazing journey! Well presented, honestly considered and truthfully spoken. Perhaps you should consider offering a series that fills in the gaps others miss out on.
To this day, finding the correct spot and manually landing on a space station in Elite: Dangerous felt like one of the hardest things I ever did in a video game. Even with the added tutorials they have now, it's a rough game to get into and as you have said the youtube solution not ideal to say the least.
Honorable mention goes out to "Space Engine", despite not being a "game", but it's on Steam so can't really argue, right?
Great video and I'm glad you took a broad approach for this topic.
It takes some getting used to but its not that bad once you get the hang of it. You just need to hang around in the queue, slowly approach and enter the mailslot, find your docking number, approach slowly and deploy landing gear, then when you get close enough your dashboard changes to give you a proper indication of your relative position to the landing pad, then just use the 3d controls (q, e, w, a, r and f) to orient and lower yourself, also note that you need to be in the right direction (I was confused on this for quite a while lol). Ok having written all that it is a lot more complicated than I was thinking lmao
hope you're doing good. keep on keeping on!
That classical tune in the beginning is just a classic yes, but fellow commanders know that tune very well.
o7
Keep braving the void y'all
Amazing video, I just discovered your channel because someone share this video and I'm loving it
Will there be an in depth critique of Starfield? I'd love to hear your opinion on it!
no, sorry
There is only truly deep take on starfield, its garbage because its 10 years old and worse than 10 year old bethesda games.
@@NeverKnowsBest Im going to cry and wet myself tonight, and it will be your fault... Always remember that, till your very last breaths
@@NeverKnowsBestwhy is it not possible you lazy bastard? I need a 24 hour breakdown of starfield. Do it you bastard.
it deserves a shallow critique to match its shallow systems and gameplay. This video is all the critique it needs.
I was waiting for this, great video. A combination of these game best parts would be awesome, with cdpr handling the story. One can dream.
FYI, in Elite you can enable night vision on every ship, and also on suits when engineered (upgraded). Good luck finding the keybind.
Also in Elite, travel to the center of the galaxy and beyond is time consuming but feasible when you have a top of the line ship that has more than 10x the starting ship jump range.
You can also use neutron stars jets to supercharge your drive and boost jump distance condiderably (there is an option in galaxy map to automatically set the route using them).
You can go to Sol system, but to obtain permit you have to rank up Federation rep.
As for narrative, it is present but it is very slow and thin, and proper questlines were scrapped early on. There are rumors of a certain... place... anyone still has to find.
Another wonderful video, a pleasure seeing this pop up in my feed
Man is it good to see a New video of you, thanks 🎉🎉
Had a similar experience with Elite Dangerous. Game guides being good at teaching efficiency but bad at teaching fun could be a video unto itself
Great part of EDs community are its active Discord channels with many experienced veterans ready to help, o7.
Elite is essentially a series of mini games plus dogfighting in Space. If you don’t find them “fun”, in and of themselves, then it’s not the right game for you.
Landing on planets, docking/undocking from space stations, fuel scooping, neutron star boosting, mining… without messing up and destroying your expensive ship. It’s basically Wario Ware in space with realistic physics.
Wish Space Rangers (1 and 2) had gotten a mention. They are still my favorite space games with great world that lives on its own, a wild variety of gameplay styles (especially in 2) and amazing exploration not just through flying around, but through text quests and planet surveying.
Space Rangers wasnt really exploration tho. Text quests are just that, text quest where you solve puzzles, do math, play some tabletop games, be in jail, run a business or something among those lines. And planet surveying is just putting probes on the map and then leaving and then coming back some time later to see what kind of loot you got. And all of the sectors are already explored and inhabited. Its more of a space sim imo. And in this video NKB seem to focus more on exploring space.
@@anuaronaibay8628 but it could at least be mentioned in the history of space games, cause that seemed to include simply games that were about space.
And I feel like SR's living world is one of the best representations of what space "should be". Not a place that simply waits for the player to come push it forward, but a place that completely exists on its own and could not really care about the player's actions, unless they directly influence said world.
@@megamcee Maybe. The video is called "An in-depth look at Space Exploration in video games", so it looks like he mostly focused on games that are either primarily or partially about space exploration, and not space games in general. Or maybe he just never heard of it =b its not a popular game after all.
Yeah, that part of SR was always amazing. It was an actual living universe. But I think its not what "Space should be", but instead mostly like a "Living world should be" on a whole. A game that just lives on its own without any player input could be really cool anywhere, not just space. And like NKB said in this video, space is big but in SR it feels very crowded. I think SR is an amazing game, but I dont think its a "space game" necessarily.
@@anuaronaibay8628Yeah this video also lacked the good ol X4 series of Space Sims
Another top quality video. Thank you neverknowsbest!
I always love your essays, especially their ability to provide a new viewpoint on subjects I hadn't fully considered myself. Plus, using the clip from Blade Runner was an awesome touch.
In Elite Dangerous when going interstellar travelling you need to set your route planner to fast route. You used economical route and get an average of 6LY jump range. There are several ships in the game where you can upgrade and engineer to jump 10 times more to 60-70LY and over. Without engineering you can get DBX with a 39 LY jump range.
he wasn't going to get far doing 3-4 ly jumps.
your experience with elite dangerous made me so happy to watch, after 1100+ hours in that game i had forgotten how much fun it was at the beginning to learn things
Always happy to see you upload one man!
Was not expecting you to upload so fast. Nice👍
I don't remember my starting hours of Elite Dangerous but I know it was a learning curve and I spent a long time just customizing the controls to my preference. I don't play it as much as I used to, but I still find myself returning every once in a while. Star Citizen, No Man's Sky and the other space sim games just never clicked with me as well as Elite Dangerous. Its certainly not for everyone and the Odyssey dlc was a big letdown, but the core elements of flying and exploring in space is done so well. No other game had me spending several days just to make a pilgrimage to SagA* and continue the voyage to Beagle Point, hours of scamming lifeless planets with the rare occasional Earth-like then flying to the next system to do it all over again, again and again hundreds of times. Some might find it boring and monotonous but I find it relaxing, just me in the black. Also I know Raxxla is out there, it will be found in time.
Exactly this. And also that you feel you’re exploring a real life place rather than some fictional game world.
Ever wondered what the night sky would look like at the dense centre of the Milky Way, or from inside a nebula, or from way above/below the galactic plane? Elite gives you that.
I hope you'll make a video on Outer Wilds and its DLC eventually. It's one of the best games ever made in my opinion
As a Starfield player, I think this is a very fair take on the game and this genre. 👏🙏
Why are your final thoughts always so touching? Thank you for this.