Jingles, you need to teach 'Weapons tight' to Flambass. He likes to start the match "weapons free" and is surprised when his ships instantly start to launch everything at everyone!
@@Julius_Hardware anyone who hasn't played cold waters that way hasn't done a hard mission. anyone would slam the panic button the minute the AI saturates the water with torpedos.
I was a Navy GMM and worked on the Terrier system on USS Sterett (CG-31), USS MacDonough (DDG-39) and USS King (DDG-41). The callout is "Birds Away" followed by the track number. This not only lets everyone on the net know that you fired, but also which hostile you are firing at.
As requested: I think that your ships are using the correct NATO Brevity code for friendly SAMs: "Bird"; "Birds Away". "Fox 1" is an air-to-air semi-active homing missile. "Vampire" is a hostile anti-ship missile.The launch of a friendly anti-ship missile is "Bruiser"
If i may, according to the Multiservice tactical brevity code list on Wikipedia, Bruiser means "Friendly air-launched anti-ship missile" and Bulldog means "Friendly surface/submarine-launched anti-ship missile"
Game: "Birds away! Jingles: "I wonder what the brevity code is for a Surface-to-air-missile" Game: " *Birds away!* " Jingles: "It might be Fox-1". We love you, Jingles.
@@HK-er7wf From what I understand the Captain, XO, and TAO were either dismissed or black listed from promotions. For the captain that was a done deal, he was screwed no matter what he did. He could've ordered them to hold fire... at which point he'd be reprimanded for not engaging a possible threat to the ship (a captains first responsibility is to their ship), and obviously he got reprimanded for engaging not just because he shot down a civilian airliner, but because he disobeyed his main order and chased the boghammers into Iranian Waters.
@@Tank50us the aircraft wasn't a threat though, aegis data showed the contact was climbing, it was purely confirmation bias and the captain was acting like a cowboy all tour. Don't know about promotions but they certainly got medals and the US didn't even apologize Imagine if it was Iran shooting down a US airliner
Two things first I bet your helicopter pilot was glad he wore the brown pants when the phoenix was coming in and secondly that was a master class in explanation of how naval operations work I hope you do many more like this. 👍
Jingles! Been here for 11 years and your Sea Power videos are my favourite youtube series to watch . There's something you bring to this game with your Navy background, keep them coming, much appreciated!
@@LordOfCinder85 Their commentary would play nicely off each other and be hilarious :) Also, in one of his videos Jive Turkey credits Jingles with kickstarting his followers, by watching one of his videos (or twitch streams).
Uncle Jingles keeping up his famous and well-known tradition of miss-identifying everthing he sees. Ships, tanks, planes... all fair game. At least he didn't (miss) identify them as 747s! lol
actually, the AIM-54 in the game should be the earliest A-variant of the missile. Meaning it's not really a true active-radar homing missile (yet). The launching aircraft still had to guide the missile for most of its flight, only in the terminal phase (the last 10 - 15 seconds or so before impact) the missile would switch to its own seeker and track the target independently. If the launching aircraft losses target lock at any point before that, the missile would go dumb and never hit anything. This only changed with later versions of the missile!
@@reinbeers5322 Obviously, the smaller seeker in a missile has a far shorter range compared to the radar in the nose of an aircraft, but that wasn't what I was talking about! The difference is in what happen if the launching aircraft loses their target lock. Modern Fox-3 missiles (as well as later variant of the Phoenix) would switch to their own seeker, continuing on to the enemy's last known position and lock-on to whatever ends up in their line of sight. However, the early AIM-54A requires the command from the Tomcat to "go pitbull". Without this signal, the missile's own radar won't turn on and no handover will take place, leaving the missile on a ballistic trajectory until it falls out of the sky (or potentially self-destruct, not sure on that one).
I seriously redcommend his cold waters videos. They’re so good, ive watched them multiple times. Alot of classic jingles moments aswell. Wish he would go back to it, been trying to spam it for years
Jingles, the Iranians reverse engineered the AIM-54 and produced a homegrown version called the Fakour-90. Arming their remaining Tomcats isn't a problem for them. Their current problem is spare parts.
The term for baiting aircraft into a SAM ring to engage them, is known as the SAMBUSH. Also, “Birds away” is the typical comm brevity used with NATO. when friendly SAMs are being launched.
The funny part is the ship's radio operator said the phrase at least _twice,_ and once immediately after Jingles talked about it and said "write it in the comments" :D Oh Jingles, never change.
8:20 Don't overestimate SAMs, Jingles. Ask the Coventry how well it's 40nm Sea Darts worked on the 25th May 1982. Admittedly that was more the limitations of the radar than the missile, but the point stands.
Don't compare the garbage the UK uses with US weapons! The RN losses in the Falklands were an embarrasment and shows the problem of nationalism in weapons procurement instead of buying the best which are US weapons.
Ha! That was my squadron pictured @1:22 , the CH-46 of HMM-262 with designation ET, Echo Tango. And yes, we caught a lot of grief because of the damn movie "E.T., phone home"! We were 1st Marine Brigade at Kaneohe, HI and ended up on Tarawa for her first West-Pac Deployment. The squadron was the last front-line user of the Phrog before transitioning to the Osprey. Now operating out of Okinawa.
Before my time, but I was stationed MCAS Kaneohe Bay for 5 years just recently, HSM-37 operating MH-60R. That's the most beautiful flight line in the world and I miss it. We still have Osprey squadrons holding it down though HMH-463, and HMLA-367 have since been decommissioned. Even USS Tarawa has since been sunk as part of RIMPAC Sinkex.
@@donniemontoya9300 Yep, old fart here. But, I do remember the helo flight line (was once used for PBYs and other amphibs) and the pure drama of the mountains at the lagoon. What a place! HMLA-367 supplied the N model Hueys and Cobras out of California (Pendelton?) for our deployments in the '70s. We never deployed with HMH-463 in our Composite Squadron that I recall.
The Grumman F-14 Tomcat was designed as an air-to-air fighter and interceptor, but it was also capable of carrying a variety of air-to-ground ordnance (Though I think most of this was in the mid to late 80's or 90's): Mk-80 series GP bombs: The F-14 was cleared to carry all modern American general purpose bombs in this series. Mk-20 Rockeye cluster bomb: The F-14 was cleared to carry this cluster bomb. 5” Zuni folding-fin aircraft rocket (FFAR): The F-14 was cleared to carry this rocket. Guided bomb unit (GBU) versions of the Mk-80 series bombs: The F-14 was cleared to carry some laser guided versions of these bombs. CBU cluster bombs: The F-14 could carry these cluster bombs. Also the Iranian's actually converted some SAM missiles that they have (they're kind of like HAWK SAM missiles) to take the place of the AIM-54.
Grumman also fit checked Harpoon missiles and iirc even did some flight testing with a captive carry (inert) missile. The USN wasn't interested however (they had enough A-6's and S-3's for Harpoon slinging) so it never went anywhere.
the Paveway Series was only present on the F-14B and F-14D series, the F-14A which Iran has, didn't have them And the Converted HAWK missiles used are the Fakour 90 (bassically a Phoenix with massive acceleration) and the Sedjil, (Imagine a SARH Phoenix) they also utilise the Yasser Rocket, basically a M117 750lb Bomb fitted with a HAWK Missile motor
@@Whiskey-Teaz F-14As could and did use the GBUs during the GWOT as they (and the Bs/Ds) had the range to hit the targets that the Hornets couldn't. The "Alley Cats" are probably more accurately dubbed F-14ir since they've made so many changes to the frames they have left that they barely resemble the F-14 any more.
Currently serving Naval Electronic Sensor Operator with RCN. Birds is friendly surface to air. APP 7 Nato Brevity is the unclass PUB with all the codewords
I was listening to Red Storm Rising when I watched your videos of this and it gave me a much better visualization of what was going on in the books during the naval fights. And made me more excited to see more videos on this game!
I love this game and your video on it. I really hope to see more sea power on your channel. Plus with u having naval experience it brings a lot more to the videos. I really enjoyed the knowledge you have and commentary on the video. Thanks for talking about rhe aim 54. I had no idea they couldn't fire. Untill they had vision on target. 19:31
The USS Belleau Wood and her escorts were the US Navy’s representatives during the 50th Anniversary of the Lyet landings. She and her group were parked off shore for more than a week leading up to thecelebrations. Her Marine Corp compliment and Sea Bees came ashore to our small seaside town and did some civic-military activities. I was a HS student back then, and seeing all those harware left me in awe. And that entire week whenever I went to the beach her form was silhoeutted on the horizon. She was a majestic sight as she performed air ops with her Chinooks.
Birds were 'Sea Knights', CH-46 of the Marines and Navy. U.S. Army flew CH-47 Chinooks w/4 sets of landing wheels and just bigger. If Philippines Air Units had Chinooks, no reason they couldn't have cycled in to land and take off from an LHA, which had pretty big flight decks.
@The Mighty Jingles, the brevity code word for surface to air missile being launched is actually what the AI says in the game...birds away. Same goes for Surface to surface, the AI gets it right : Bulldogs away". When in doubt, just pull up good old APP-7 XD
In 12 years, I think this is the best Sunday surprise video. I love seeing you excited enough to put in a Sunday video, but this is a video that showcases things from my lifetime, so it tends to keep more interest. Always a pleasure, Sir.
Actually Jingles, those are CH-46 Sea Knights, not CH-47 Chinooks. There are several ways you can tell the difference visually. The main two are that the Chinook is bigger and that the Chinook had 4 sets of landing gear while the Sea Knight had only 3. Confusing the two is a common mistake. Excellent video! Hope to see more of this game!
Yeah I was wondering the same. Did I miss them being detected, identified and engaged? /Edit: I searched through the transcript, there is at least no mention of Phantoms other than when he briefly talked about Iran having both and how he'd prefer to encounter F-14s in this scenario.
I was on USS Belleau Wood (LHA-3) for my first WestPac from Jan-Jun '89. It's just as well you didn't mention her 5'50 guns. I deployed with her a few times but never once had any destroyers or frigates as escort. Luckily during my cruise the Soviets took pity on our plight and sent one of their destroyers to escort us. That destroyer ensured our safety further by launching her helicopter to overfly our flight deck. This action may or may not have resulted in numerous rude gestures and commentary from the crew and embarked troops on the Belleau Wood. Cobras were launched that day. Later on in the cruise the Soviets were kind enough to check in on us by sending out a Bear bomber to overfly us. Harriers escorted that one.
4:30 A quick correction: The AV8B Harrier II was generally analogous (With admittedly notable differences) to the Sea Harriers of the Royal Navy, with many similar upgrades and a resultant increase in capability. They could use Fox 3 missiles due to their APG-65 radars. (I believe first AV8Bs were built without radars, but all eventually had them retrofitted in around the same time the Sea harriers got their AIM-120 capability) I believe the harriers that you are thinking about are the AV8A/C Harriers, which are essentially American versions of the Gr.3 I am not sure of the AV8B is in the game, but all the harriers I have seen used so far have been AV8As. The AV8B reached IOC in 1985, so it would be available during the time frame of this scenario.
Jingles, been listening to you for years and years now. Feels like they made this game specifically for your commentary and thoughts. I've enjoyed every single one of your videos on this game so far and look forward to more.
Two things: Those are AV-8A Harriers, not AV-8B Harriers, comparable to RAF Harrier GR.1/3s. Also, the Pheonix proved to be devastatingly effective in Iranian service.
I had the privilege to serve for a couple of weeks on the USS Belleau Wood providing ATC liaison. Great ship, great crew and the 31st MEU were BLOODY impressive! As an Air Force chappie, I came away with new-found respect for Navy personnel and their capabilities. BZ and thank you for your service.
Hi Jingles: About active radar homing missiles, most of them are not 'fire and forget'. Once the missile leaves the rail it needs instructions on where to go from the launch platform, when it reaches a pre-determined distance from the target (on some missiles like the AIM-54 this is programable) the missile will switch on it's seeker head and look for the target. This is called going 'pitbull' and at this point the missile is now self guiding and you can forget about it. This usually happens at a range of *arround* 10 nautical miles. Because this is the internet I need to put in the caveat that this is not true of all systems and *espetially* not of modern ones as things are changing a lot
I really enjoyed Jane's Fleet Command, back in the days, but I see the game has no choice but to keep some fundamentals like insta Borg-spotting (once one unit spots something, everybody on the map knows about it but in all justice, it applies to us players as well) and instant battle damage assessment. Dangerous Waters was I suppose closer from actual experience, but perhaps you'd want to tell us.
The game seems to call out the launches by target type. Missiles firing against air targets are called out "Birds away", against surface targets as "Bulldog away", and against land targets as "Greyhound away". And I know it's target type, because you can use an SM-2 against all three and it'll get called differently depending on the target.
Jingles!! I seem to remember that the reason you needed eyeballs on before launching, was that they couldn’t guarantee target ids like they can today. And after the Korean Air shoot down, nobody wanted the headlines to read US Navy shoots down civilian airliner.
man i feel like a bucket of nails when i read the comments and the conversation is outta my level of undestanding, so here's my response, Have a great Sunday Jingles, take care man. :)
Hope you’ll do more SP vids. I was a GMG (gunnersmate guns) back in the early 90’s. I wish I could help you out with the the launch command for GMMs (GM missiles). On our end we would receive the command “batteries release, batteries release.”
I don't know if the game simulates it but dropping your helos to the deck was your best move. Air to air missile seekers, unless it is designed to pick out targets in surface clutter, will have a hard time getting a solid return off something flying that low. While the 'C' variant of the Phoenix was much improved in this regard, I think the 'A' used in the scenario would have a much harder time of it.
I am not usually one to write a comment on UA-cam vids but I just love your Sea Power Videos. So this is for the algorithm and here is hoping for many more of these. Would also love to see you creating your own scenario with the mission editor
Love the video. One point on the radar horizon. It is proportional to the altitude of the radar, but it is not linear. Assuming an ideal radar and whatnot, you can model the radar range as being the radio LOS range. (Yes, your radioman days shall haunt you yet again!) At 5 ft thats ~6 miles on a small boat. At 50ft ~13 miles. At 500 ft ~35 miles. At 5000 ft ~103 miles. Nevermind signal intensity loss is also nonlinear. With that in mind, having your helos at anything but skimming altitude in a contested air environment doesn't gain you much in terms of early warning to the task force vs the radial position of the helos themselves.
Another way to trick long-range missiles is to dive and force the missile to lose altitude (also energy). Then, once the motor burns out, you rapidly climb and hope that the rocket doesn't have enough grunt left to keep up.
I really love watching you play this game, it reminds me of when you played Cold Waters all those years ago. Just wanted that to be known, thanks Jingles
"Actually, Jingles" the F-14 was never upgraded to carry the AMRAAM in service, so it would have been slinging AIM-7 Sparrows at targets they got close enough to identify.
@@Tank50us Right, the testing unit. I probably should have specified that I meant the fleet wasn't upgraded to carry AMRAAM, not that no Tomcat ever did.
I found Jingles praising the Tomcat AI amusing. It made the correct countermeasures to evade then got baited into range of weapons they knew would kill them from half a dozen surface threats.
Actually, Jingles... As I understand, those failed missile launches were Sparrows not Phoenixes. (AMRAMs were introduced somewere in late 80's/early 90's). They (Sparrows) were not so good due to two factors. #1. pilots were kinda triggerhappy. They usually shoot Sparrows in situations where chances of hitting target were slim. Yea, they had a "lock" but often angles, speeds, g-forces were so bad that missile was simply unable to follow the target. #2. There also was another, bigger issue. Homing missile is very complex device. With lots of very precise mechanical and electrical components. It is designed to withstand lots of "abuse" (g-forces, vibrstions etc.) but over the time that adds up. Planes that carry those missile do lots of crazy stuff. In fact couple of shaky landings could do a thing. So, quite often those misslies were damaged after some time and even in perfect conditions were failing to work properly. Fun fact : today we aware of that so each missile has each one "mileage" (i don't know proper word), how many flight hours it takes before it become unreliable. After that it needs to be refurbished. Or scrapped. There is a practice that misslies near that mark are taken off flight inventory and given to ground to air defences where it is used as part of NASSAMS project.
The LHA-3 came out from San Diego about 1 month before we deployed out on the Tarawa. We landed aboard the Belleau Wood and did coordinated operations on her with a short battalion of grunts and amphib units for about a week in the live fire area of Kahoolawe. This worked up LHA crew and familiarized us wingers with operations. The Tarawa was the first deployment of a new class of Amphibious Assault ship that had a floodable well to launch directly vessels like LVMs (?), very big ramped landing craft. The only thing that my generation of Marines was familiar with until then were the old LPH's like the Tripoli and the Okinawa. The 'Trip ship' was my first West Pac iirc. The Tarawa was magic compared to the LPHs.
As more of a propeller head and whatever you call people into tanks, I kind of have no idea what any of this missile and radar yap is about, but these games especially with you commentating makes them very interesting! I want to get more into naval history but don't know where to begin
Too late I know, but with regards to - "I can't use the Helo RADAR because the Tomcats will then pick up those Helos" - I don't think it matters, the Tomcat radar is picking you up anyway (they do get a lock), and I'm not sure that an Iranian Tomcat/AIM-54 combo could use an enemy radar signal for a firing solution. You may as well have the helo radars turned on during the heat. I'm up to criticism of this, please be nice.
Yes!!!! Jingles playing Sea Power!!! the Phoenix is a great missile. But has a 0-3 record. Plus the two that just made jingles landings in the Arabian Gulf, that is 0-5.
Our long and hard shifts in the Salt Mines have been rewarded with a bonus Sea Power video on Sunday! What is that Jingles? You expect 5 more "bonus" shifts as compensation? Sir, yes sir!
12:28 Very nice explosions. Games are definitely getting to levels of true realism, and I started gaming on a C-64, so I've watched the entire evolution process over the last 4 decades. Even this will look clunky in another 20 years. I remember watching Babylon 5 and thinking 'one day we'll have games that look as amazing as this show and it'll be rendered in real time too!'. That only took 10 to 15 years (and yes, Babylon 5 was amazing for the time and 'space' visuals of any kind was veeery very rare indeed. Modern Sci-Fi nerds are spoilt rotten).
"The Phoenix missile system had no success because it never shot anything down" Not the case. In naval terms, it's a fleet in being. The fact that it exists severely limits the enemy's tactical options, hamstrings its strategic actions, and even requires a whole military industrial complex to find ways of dealing with it. The best way to win a cold war is by creating strategic circumstances in which your adversary is unable to sustain an economy capable of dealing with your military threat. This is a part of that. The USSR was vulnerable to such weapons, and unable to come up with effective counters while still feeding its citizens. I mean, also Phoenixes accounted for loads of shootdowns in the Iran-Iraq war, but that's beside the point.
Would have been funny if the Iranians had a 2nd pair of F-14's at slow cruise with no EMCON backing the first pair, although expensive in AIM 54's could keep the helos surface skimming for longer, but the distance trap worked.
i wouldn't say an F-14 is surprisingly well suited for airborne early warning. it's rather that iran has F all else available. what country that has acces to airborne early warning planes that carries a compliment of several officers, some of which do the exact same job, goes "you know what, lets just give all that responsibility to a 2 seater jet with one dude in charge of keeping the thing in the air and pointed in the right direction, whilst the other guy handles, well, everything else."
If I remember correctly the radar for the Harrier B+ came because the C and D Hornets received radar upgrades and the Harriers received the old Hornet radars.
Jingles, just oughta mention that attacking surface fleets from the air "old school" (meaning with unguided bombs and rockets) isn't entirely unfeasible, so long as you have sacrificial aircraft (likely drones or manned aircraft utilizing "wild weasel" tactics, in the case of the US and NATO air forces) that can act as decoys against surface to air missiles like the RIM-7, or if you have significant radar and infrared jamming (in the case of infrared jamming for those unaware of what it implies, it's basically just blinding the IR sensors of a target or incoming missile using a suitable IR laser) to back up the airstrike. It's not impossible, but incredibly difficult to do, and may even be the best if not only option against surface ships equipped with minimal radar observability/stealth (think Elliot Carver's stealth ship in Tomorrow Never Dies) other than just bashing at it with naval artillery Jutland-style. Edit: While you are correct that the Tomcat has no Air-to-Surface capability, that is only true for the F-14A. The F-14A+ (later redesignated the F-14B) introduced that capability, giving it the moniker "Bombcat", and the capability was kept in place with the F-14D Super Tomcat. While this didn't change the aircraft type from Naval Interceptor to Multirole, it added the capability where it was needed.
F-14 usually had AIM-54, AIM-9 and AIM-7 Sparrow. Only the last versions had AIM-120 AMRAAM. Iranian pilots had a lot of success with AIM-54, way more than Americans. Modern day fighters can actually pick up Phoenix on radar and engage it with their own air-to-air missiles due to its size. That is why, among other things, AIM-54 was discontinued.
Jingles, you need to teach 'Weapons tight' to Flambass. He likes to start the match "weapons free" and is surprised when his ships instantly start to launch everything at everyone!
That's how Jingles played Cold Waters. Total panic!
To be fair to Flambass he set the Air Defence status to “weapon’s free” and then harpoons and tomahawks were launched. 😂
@@marknelson2073 yea air defense status is bugged. it controls every weapon
Flambass's fleet definitely saw torpedo boats, and they are coming from all directions (everywhere). 😂
@@Julius_Hardware anyone who hasn't played cold waters that way hasn't done a hard mission. anyone would slam the panic button the minute the AI saturates the water with torpedos.
I was a Navy GMM and worked on the Terrier system on USS Sterett (CG-31), USS MacDonough (DDG-39) and USS King (DDG-41). The callout is "Birds Away" followed by the track number. This not only lets everyone on the net know that you fired, but also which hostile you are firing at.
my dad was a FC on the King.
@@gilraine1225 What years? I was on King 1985 - 1989.
@@thornefroemming7796 82-86 i think
@@thornefroemming7796 82-86 i think
I notice the voice acting has a different line for the harpoons: "Bulldog away." Is that for surface-to-surface?
As requested: I think that your ships are using the correct NATO Brevity code for friendly SAMs: "Bird"; "Birds Away". "Fox 1" is an air-to-air semi-active homing missile. "Vampire" is a hostile anti-ship missile.The launch of a friendly anti-ship missile is "Bruiser"
If i may, according to the Multiservice tactical brevity code list on Wikipedia, Bruiser means "Friendly air-launched anti-ship missile" and Bulldog means "Friendly surface/submarine-launched anti-ship missile"
@@ijsthee2000 Thank you. I stand corrected. =)
Game: "Birds away!
Jingles: "I wonder what the brevity code is for a Surface-to-air-missile"
Game: " *Birds away!* "
Jingles: "It might be Fox-1".
We love you, Jingles.
"What is that? Oh, probably a civilian airliner."
*USS Vincennes going to general quarters noises*
Sadly several careers were ended because of that fiasco....
@@Tank50us what careers? The captain and the CIC crew got medals after the tour
@@HK-er7wf From what I understand the Captain, XO, and TAO were either dismissed or black listed from promotions. For the captain that was a done deal, he was screwed no matter what he did. He could've ordered them to hold fire... at which point he'd be reprimanded for not engaging a possible threat to the ship (a captains first responsibility is to their ship), and obviously he got reprimanded for engaging not just because he shot down a civilian airliner, but because he disobeyed his main order and chased the boghammers into Iranian Waters.
@@Tank50us the aircraft wasn't a threat though, aegis data showed the contact was climbing, it was purely confirmation bias and the captain was acting like a cowboy all tour. Don't know about promotions but they certainly got medals and the US didn't even apologize
Imagine if it was Iran shooting down a US airliner
@Tank50us it was deemed justified. The captain even waited till the very last second to shoot
Two things first I bet your helicopter pilot was glad he wore the brown pants when the phoenix was coming in and secondly that was a master class in explanation of how naval operations work I hope you do many more like this. 👍
Jingles! Been here for 11 years and your Sea Power videos are my favourite youtube series to watch . There's something you bring to this game with your Navy background, keep them coming, much appreciated!
I think he should do a collab with Jive Turkey. In my opinion, him and Jingles are the two most interesting Sea Power streamers.
@@LordOfCinder85 Their commentary would play nicely off each other and be hilarious :)
Also, in one of his videos Jive Turkey credits Jingles with kickstarting his followers, by watching one of his videos (or twitch streams).
Yeah, Jingles is definitely not sucking at this game, and it's surprisingly refreshing, lol
Those aren't CH-47 Chinooks. Those are CH-46 Sea Knights. 😉
stop lying regen
Exactly. Wolfpack was also wrong about that.
@@NiVRo90 Well, didn't Wolf call it a CH-46 Chinook haha
Ah well, sailors thinking: if it quacks like a duck and broadly looks like one, it must be a duck. Potato, potaato. 🤭
Uncle Jingles keeping up his famous and well-known tradition of miss-identifying everthing he sees. Ships, tanks, planes... all fair game. At least he didn't (miss) identify them as 747s! lol
lol, Mk 1 Eyeball is tagged as a visual sensor. I love it.
Where abouts did you see that? Timestamp?
@@CommodoreRayne.IMP.C-1824 19:08. Full context from 17:30 ish
It's a classic military joke, older than NSN numbers
actually, the AIM-54 in the game should be the earliest A-variant of the missile. Meaning it's not really a true active-radar homing missile (yet).
The launching aircraft still had to guide the missile for most of its flight, only in the terminal phase (the last 10 - 15 seconds or so before impact) the missile would switch to its own seeker and track the target independently. If the launching aircraft losses target lock at any point before that, the missile would go dumb and never hit anything.
This only changed with later versions of the missile!
That was still true for later models and even the AMRAAM, their onboard radar cannot track a target from their maximum range away.
@@reinbeers5322 Obviously, the smaller seeker in a missile has a far shorter range compared to the radar in the nose of an aircraft, but that wasn't what I was talking about! The difference is in what happen if the launching aircraft loses their target lock. Modern Fox-3 missiles (as well as later variant of the Phoenix) would switch to their own seeker, continuing on to the enemy's last known position and lock-on to whatever ends up in their line of sight. However, the early AIM-54A requires the command from the Tomcat to "go pitbull". Without this signal, the missile's own radar won't turn on and no handover will take place, leaving the missile on a ballistic trajectory until it falls out of the sky (or potentially self-destruct, not sure on that one).
I got to say, I love these longer video's of a slower paced war game. The extra information on various military subjects is great.
I seriously redcommend his cold waters videos. They’re so good, ive watched them multiple times. Alot of classic jingles moments aswell.
Wish he would go back to it, been trying to spam it for years
@@camsfishingaddiction I fully agree. I loved those videos and it got me playing Cold Waters myself as well.
@@Therod911 we can dream😪
Jingles, the Iranians reverse engineered the AIM-54 and produced a homegrown version called the Fakour-90. Arming their remaining Tomcats isn't a problem for them. Their current problem is spare parts.
It's kinda funny they basically named it 'fakk u!'
Fakour-90 only was ready for mass production in 2011.
And before that, they put a modified version of the HAWK Surface to Air missile on the glove pylons, at least for trials.
33:56 he just said it haha!
"Birds away" is "I've just lobbed a SAM" at someone.
The term for baiting aircraft into a SAM ring to engage them, is known as the SAMBUSH. Also, “Birds away” is the typical comm brevity used with NATO. when friendly SAMs are being launched.
The funny part is the ship's radio operator said the phrase at least _twice,_ and once immediately after Jingles talked about it and said "write it in the comments" :D
Oh Jingles, never change.
8:20 Don't overestimate SAMs, Jingles. Ask the Coventry how well it's 40nm Sea Darts worked on the 25th May 1982. Admittedly that was more the limitations of the radar than the missile, but the point stands.
Don't compare the garbage the UK uses with US weapons!
The RN losses in the Falklands were an embarrasment and shows the problem of nationalism in weapons procurement instead of buying the best which are US weapons.
I loved and enjoyed your Cold Waters series, so really hope this turns into a new series, one can always hope.
Say hello to the cats
Jingles asking for the US brevity code and in the meanwhile you just hear "Birds away" constantly :D
Never change Jingles!
Hope we get some more Sea Power videos!!!
Ha! That was my squadron pictured @1:22 , the CH-46 of HMM-262 with designation ET, Echo Tango. And yes, we caught a lot of grief because of the damn movie "E.T., phone home"! We were 1st Marine Brigade at Kaneohe, HI and ended up on Tarawa for her first West-Pac Deployment. The squadron was the last front-line user of the Phrog before transitioning to the Osprey. Now operating out of Okinawa.
Before my time, but I was stationed MCAS Kaneohe Bay for 5 years just recently, HSM-37 operating MH-60R. That's the most beautiful flight line in the world and I miss it. We still have Osprey squadrons holding it down though HMH-463, and HMLA-367 have since been decommissioned. Even USS Tarawa has since been sunk as part of RIMPAC Sinkex.
@@donniemontoya9300 Yep, old fart here. But, I do remember the helo flight line (was once used for PBYs and other amphibs) and the pure drama of the mountains at the lagoon. What a place! HMLA-367 supplied the N model Hueys and Cobras out of California (Pendelton?) for our deployments in the '70s. We never deployed with HMH-463 in our Composite Squadron that I recall.
My dad was with 262 from 1980 to 83. I loved living on base at MCAS Kanaohe. I have a lot of good memories of that time.
The Grumman F-14 Tomcat was designed as an air-to-air fighter and interceptor, but it was also capable of carrying a variety of air-to-ground ordnance (Though I think most of this was in the mid to late 80's or 90's):
Mk-80 series GP bombs: The F-14 was cleared to carry all modern American general purpose bombs in this series.
Mk-20 Rockeye cluster bomb: The F-14 was cleared to carry this cluster bomb.
5” Zuni folding-fin aircraft rocket (FFAR): The F-14 was cleared to carry this rocket.
Guided bomb unit (GBU) versions of the Mk-80 series bombs: The F-14 was cleared to carry some laser guided versions of these bombs.
CBU cluster bombs: The F-14 could carry these cluster bombs.
Also the Iranian's actually converted some SAM missiles that they have (they're kind of like HAWK SAM missiles) to take the place of the AIM-54.
The F-14Ds in the opening years of the GWOT carried JDAMs and Paveways as well as the Lantirn TGP.
Grumman also fit checked Harpoon missiles and iirc even did some flight testing with a captive carry (inert) missile. The USN wasn't interested however (they had enough A-6's and S-3's for Harpoon slinging) so it never went anywhere.
the Paveway Series was only present on the F-14B and F-14D series, the F-14A which Iran has, didn't have them
And the Converted HAWK missiles used are the Fakour 90 (bassically a Phoenix with massive acceleration) and the Sedjil, (Imagine a SARH Phoenix) they also utilise the Yasser Rocket, basically a M117 750lb Bomb fitted with a HAWK Missile motor
Bombcats!
@@Whiskey-Teaz F-14As could and did use the GBUs during the GWOT as they (and the Bs/Ds) had the range to hit the targets that the Hornets couldn't. The "Alley Cats" are probably more accurately dubbed F-14ir since they've made so many changes to the frames they have left that they barely resemble the F-14 any more.
This game, like Harpoon did, might give the Navy some interesting “red team” ideas or scenarios that they haven’t thought of.
Currently serving Naval Electronic Sensor Operator with RCN.
Birds is friendly surface to air.
APP 7 Nato Brevity is the unclass PUB with all the codewords
"I'm reasonably sure it's not an Airbus" -- never ceases to amuse me :D
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Some navies seem to have trouble telling the difference.
I was listening to Red Storm Rising when I watched your videos of this and it gave me a much better visualization of what was going on in the books during the naval fights. And made me more excited to see more videos on this game!
YEAAAAAAHHHH A bonus Sunday JINGLES video!
Loving my day already! Hope you have a good weekend, Mighty Old Man!
This is so squarely in Jingles corner, slow paced with sudden bursts of action and a lot of stuff to talk about.
Perfection!
I love this game and your video on it. I really hope to see more sea power on your channel. Plus with u having naval experience it brings a lot more to the videos. I really enjoyed the knowledge you have and commentary on the video. Thanks for talking about rhe aim 54. I had no idea they couldn't fire. Untill they had vision on target. 19:31
I was only just thinking how much I loved the Sunday bonus videos and then...POW! Went onto UA-cam and there you were! Huzzah!
The USS Belleau Wood and her escorts were the US Navy’s representatives during the 50th Anniversary of the Lyet landings. She and her group were parked off shore for more than a week leading up to thecelebrations. Her Marine Corp compliment and Sea Bees came ashore to our small seaside town and did some civic-military activities. I was a HS student back then, and seeing all those harware left me in awe. And that entire week whenever I went to the beach her form was silhoeutted on the horizon. She was a majestic sight as she performed air ops with her Chinooks.
Birds were 'Sea Knights', CH-46 of the Marines and Navy. U.S. Army flew CH-47 Chinooks w/4 sets of landing wheels and just bigger. If Philippines Air Units had Chinooks, no reason they couldn't have cycled in to land and take off from an LHA, which had pretty big flight decks.
@The Mighty Jingles, the brevity code word for surface to air missile being launched is actually what the AI says in the game...birds away. Same goes for Surface to surface, the AI gets it right : Bulldogs away". When in doubt, just pull up good old APP-7 XD
Guess we found another game where Rear Admiral Jingles is not crap.
Lets see if that changes in the full game.
In 12 years, I think this is the best Sunday surprise video. I love seeing you excited enough to put in a Sunday video, but this is a video that showcases things from my lifetime, so it tends to keep more interest. Always a pleasure, Sir.
Did the Reuben James not star in a Clancy book? A British captain having a good laugh at the name?
Sure did; in arguably the best of Clancy’s works, Red Storm Rising ;)
"Isn't it a kind of sandwich?"
Reuben James also made an appearance in "The Hunt for Red October".
I've been going round seeing whether RSR ships are in the book!
USS Pharris is also in game too!
@@DamnYankee-rg8pg what's funny about that is that HFRO and RSR both take place before the Reuben James was even launched XD
Actually Jingles, those are CH-46 Sea Knights, not CH-47 Chinooks. There are several ways you can tell the difference visually. The main two are that the Chinook is bigger and that the Chinook had 4 sets of landing gear while the Sea Knight had only 3. Confusing the two is a common mistake.
Excellent video! Hope to see more of this game!
Chinook green or black, Sea Knight gray(extremely limited number of green ones with a white stripe for HMX-1, not something fleet folks would see)
@@jagx234They used to all be green. Then they went to a grey/green camo scheme, then to low vis grey.
Wait up - the end summary page also had two F4 Phantoms listed as destroyed!
Yeah I was wondering the same. Did I miss them being detected, identified and engaged? /Edit: I searched through the transcript, there is at least no mention of Phantoms other than when he briefly talked about Iran having both and how he'd prefer to encounter F-14s in this scenario.
Shout out to you Jingles, forwarding greetings from Claus Kellerman, who told some funny stories where you was the star 😂
Isn't that the russian bias rage guy?
@ Correct. Canadian fellow, who is very funny when he comment on different games in WoT. His mind wanders all over the place 😊
I was on USS Belleau Wood (LHA-3) for my first WestPac from Jan-Jun '89. It's just as well you didn't mention her 5'50 guns. I deployed with her a few times but never once had any destroyers or frigates as escort. Luckily during my cruise the Soviets took pity on our plight and sent one of their destroyers to escort us. That destroyer ensured our safety further by launching her helicopter to overfly our flight deck. This action may or may not have resulted in numerous rude gestures and commentary from the crew and embarked troops on the Belleau Wood. Cobras were launched that day. Later on in the cruise the Soviets were kind enough to check in on us by sending out a Bear bomber to overfly us. Harriers escorted that one.
4:30
A quick correction: The AV8B Harrier II was generally analogous (With admittedly notable differences) to the Sea Harriers of the Royal Navy, with many similar upgrades and a resultant increase in capability. They could use Fox 3 missiles due to their APG-65 radars. (I believe first AV8Bs were built without radars, but all eventually had them retrofitted in around the same time the Sea harriers got their AIM-120 capability)
I believe the harriers that you are thinking about are the AV8A/C Harriers, which are essentially American versions of the Gr.3 I am not sure of the AV8B is in the game, but all the harriers I have seen used so far have been AV8As.
The AV8B reached IOC in 1985, so it would be available during the time frame of this scenario.
Yea I noticed that too.
They literally brought a knife to a gun fight at the end lol...
Guess the guy giving the orders was like "wtf ever, send it all....."
Jingles, been listening to you for years and years now. Feels like they made this game specifically for your commentary and thoughts. I've enjoyed every single one of your videos on this game so far and look forward to more.
Loving these Sea Power videos. Your insight into the naval stuff is very interesting. :)
Tom Clancy / Red Storm Rising: „what the hell is a Reuben James?“
Not your Mom-In-Law. That's for shure. ;)
Well, at least they didn't name the ship after their nasty mother in law.
HMS Battleaxe 😊
Love that book .
Great book
Two things:
Those are AV-8A Harriers, not AV-8B Harriers, comparable to RAF Harrier GR.1/3s.
Also, the Pheonix proved to be devastatingly effective in Iranian service.
I had the privilege to serve for a couple of weeks on the USS Belleau Wood providing ATC liaison. Great ship, great crew and the 31st MEU were BLOODY impressive! As an Air Force chappie, I came away with new-found respect for Navy personnel and their capabilities. BZ and thank you for your service.
Reuben James? at least its not named after someone's mother in law
Red Storm Rising was the best clancy book btw
Hi Jingles: About active radar homing missiles, most of them are not 'fire and forget'. Once the missile leaves the rail it needs instructions on where to go from the launch platform, when it reaches a pre-determined distance from the target (on some missiles like the AIM-54 this is programable) the missile will switch on it's seeker head and look for the target. This is called going 'pitbull' and at this point the missile is now self guiding and you can forget about it. This usually happens at a range of *arround* 10 nautical miles.
Because this is the internet I need to put in the caveat that this is not true of all systems and *espetially* not of modern ones as things are changing a lot
I really enjoyed Jane's Fleet Command, back in the days, but I see the game has no choice but to keep some fundamentals like insta Borg-spotting (once one unit spots something, everybody on the map knows about it but in all justice, it applies to us players as well) and instant battle damage assessment. Dangerous Waters was I suppose closer from actual experience, but perhaps you'd want to tell us.
NTDS is your friend.
appreciate you talking your way through this scenario. very helpful. Thanks!
In the US Navy, when we launch Tomahawks, we call them greyhounds
The game seems to call out the launches by target type. Missiles firing against air targets are called out "Birds away", against surface targets as "Bulldog away", and against land targets as "Greyhound away". And I know it's target type, because you can use an SM-2 against all three and it'll get called differently depending on the target.
This was an awesome showcase of SeaPower. Great bonus video today. Thank you Jingles
Finally Jingles I've been waiting all week for this video, great job very enjoyable please keep them coming
bro keep doing these, cold waters was your best series and im loving this so much.
Jingles talking about Sea Power vs anything wargaming is night and day
I'd love to sea more of this. Fascinating game and you always do such a good job of educating as you go.
Jingles!! I seem to remember that the reason you needed eyeballs on before launching, was that they couldn’t guarantee target ids like they can today. And after the Korean Air shoot down, nobody wanted the headlines to read US Navy shoots down civilian airliner.
man i feel like a bucket of nails when i read the comments and the conversation is outta my level of undestanding, so here's my response, Have a great Sunday Jingles, take care man. :)
Nah, while the Phoenix is actively guided, you still have to guide them into within 8nm for the seeker to be able to track
must say watching anything with jingles comentary makes us all happy
Hope you’ll do more SP vids.
I was a GMG (gunnersmate guns) back in the early 90’s.
I wish I could help you out with the the launch command for GMMs (GM missiles).
On our end we would receive the command “batteries release, batteries release.”
Love this! Would really love for you to do more Sea Power vids, Jingles.
I don't know if the game simulates it but dropping your helos to the deck was your best move. Air to air missile seekers, unless it is designed to pick out targets in surface clutter, will have a hard time getting a solid return off something flying that low. While the 'C' variant of the Phoenix was much improved in this regard, I think the 'A' used in the scenario would have a much harder time of it.
More of these videos Jingles, enjoy your insight and information you share.
Very excited to see another sea power video from you, hope we get more soon
YESSSS I've been hoping for more of this! Thanks Gnome Overlord!
I am not usually one to write a comment on UA-cam vids but I just love your Sea Power Videos. So this is for the algorithm and here is hoping for many more of these.
Would also love to see you creating your own scenario with the mission editor
900 knots is hauling arse, no matter what altitude
I love all the facts and information that Jingles drops in any of his movies. Always learn something new!
Love the Sea Power content. I just bought it yesterday and ive been really enjoying it
Love the video.
One point on the radar horizon.
It is proportional to the altitude of the radar, but it is not linear.
Assuming an ideal radar and whatnot, you can model the radar range as being the radio LOS range. (Yes, your radioman days shall haunt you yet again!)
At 5 ft thats ~6 miles on a small boat. At 50ft ~13 miles. At 500 ft ~35 miles. At 5000 ft ~103 miles. Nevermind signal intensity loss is also nonlinear.
With that in mind, having your helos at anything but skimming altitude in a contested air environment doesn't gain you much in terms of early warning to the task force vs the radial position of the helos themselves.
Another way to trick long-range missiles is to dive and force the missile to lose altitude (also energy). Then, once the motor burns out, you rapidly climb and hope that the rocket doesn't have enough grunt left to keep up.
Finally more Sea Power content !!
I really love watching you play this game, it reminds me of when you played Cold Waters all those years ago. Just wanted that to be known, thanks Jingles
"Actually, Jingles" the F-14 was never upgraded to carry the AMRAAM in service, so it would have been slinging AIM-7 Sparrows at targets they got close enough to identify.
One was, and it was used to test the AMRAAM. The equipment used for the 'upgrade' was made available to the fleet, but the USN never had it deployed
@@Tank50us Right, the testing unit. I probably should have specified that I meant the fleet wasn't upgraded to carry AMRAAM, not that no Tomcat ever did.
Jingles you better buy both those SH-2F chopper crews a bar worth of drinks.
I found Jingles praising the Tomcat AI amusing. It made the correct countermeasures to evade then got baited into range of weapons they knew would kill them from half a dozen surface threats.
I'm a simple man. I see an 80's naval game on Jingles' channel, I watch it. Again, with great honors from the great Empire State, New York, Jingles.
i love these videos, please keep 'em coming!
Actually, Jingles... As I understand, those failed missile launches were Sparrows not Phoenixes. (AMRAMs were introduced somewere in late 80's/early 90's). They (Sparrows) were not so good due to two factors. #1. pilots were kinda triggerhappy. They usually shoot Sparrows in situations where chances of hitting target were slim. Yea, they had a "lock" but often angles, speeds, g-forces were so bad that missile was simply unable to follow the target. #2. There also was another, bigger issue. Homing missile is very complex device. With lots of very precise mechanical and electrical components. It is designed to withstand lots of "abuse" (g-forces, vibrstions etc.) but over the time that adds up. Planes that carry those missile do lots of crazy stuff. In fact couple of shaky landings could do a thing. So, quite often those misslies were damaged after some time and even in perfect conditions were failing to work properly.
Fun fact : today we aware of that so each missile has each one "mileage" (i don't know proper word), how many flight hours it takes before it become unreliable. After that it needs to be refurbished. Or scrapped. There is a practice that misslies near that mark are taken off flight inventory and given to ground to air defences where it is used as part of NASSAMS project.
The LHA-3 came out from San Diego about 1 month before we deployed out on the Tarawa. We landed aboard the Belleau Wood and did coordinated operations on her with a short battalion of grunts and amphib units for about a week in the live fire area of Kahoolawe. This worked up LHA crew and familiarized us wingers with operations. The Tarawa was the first deployment of a new class of Amphibious Assault ship that had a floodable well to launch directly vessels like LVMs (?), very big ramped landing craft. The only thing that my generation of Marines was familiar with until then were the old LPH's like the Tripoli and the Okinawa. The 'Trip ship' was my first West Pac iirc. The Tarawa was magic compared to the LPHs.
As more of a propeller head and whatever you call people into tanks, I kind of have no idea what any of this missile and radar yap is about, but these games especially with you commentating makes them very interesting! I want to get more into naval history but don't know where to begin
Too late I know, but with regards to -
"I can't use the Helo RADAR because the Tomcats will then pick up those Helos"
- I don't think it matters, the Tomcat radar is picking you up anyway (they do get a lock), and I'm not sure that an Iranian Tomcat/AIM-54 combo could use an enemy radar signal for a firing solution. You may as well have the helo radars turned on during the heat.
I'm up to criticism of this, please be nice.
Yes!!!! Jingles playing Sea Power!!!
the Phoenix is a great missile. But has a 0-3 record. Plus the two that just made jingles landings in the Arabian Gulf, that is 0-5.
I'm guessing you are not counting the Iranian usage of AIM-54...a lot more Iranina aces in the F14 than U.S. ones.
Love this series, great for listening to while I do chores in the kitchen
Our long and hard shifts in the Salt Mines have been rewarded with a bonus Sea Power video on Sunday!
What is that Jingles? You expect 5 more "bonus" shifts as compensation? Sir, yes sir!
Been waiting for more jingles sea power for soo long!
Jingles... a helo miss ID?? never... you must be new here... (we love ya, never change!)
Friendly SAMs are called birds. Friendly AShM are called bulldogs.
12:28 Very nice explosions. Games are definitely getting to levels of true realism, and I started gaming on a C-64, so I've watched the entire evolution process over the last 4 decades. Even this will look clunky in another 20 years. I remember watching Babylon 5 and thinking 'one day we'll have games that look as amazing as this show and it'll be rendered in real time too!'. That only took 10 to 15 years (and yes, Babylon 5 was amazing for the time and 'space' visuals of any kind was veeery very rare indeed. Modern Sci-Fi nerds are spoilt rotten).
"The Phoenix missile system had no success because it never shot anything down"
Not the case. In naval terms, it's a fleet in being. The fact that it exists severely limits the enemy's tactical options, hamstrings its strategic actions, and even requires a whole military industrial complex to find ways of dealing with it. The best way to win a cold war is by creating strategic circumstances in which your adversary is unable to sustain an economy capable of dealing with your military threat.
This is a part of that. The USSR was vulnerable to such weapons, and unable to come up with effective counters while still feeding its citizens.
I mean, also Phoenixes accounted for loads of shootdowns in the Iran-Iraq war, but that's beside the point.
Bought it last week. looking forward to the designers adding the Royal Navy/Royal Air Force.
Would have been funny if the Iranians had a 2nd pair of F-14's at slow cruise with no EMCON backing the first pair, although expensive in AIM 54's could keep the helos surface skimming for longer, but the distance trap worked.
i wouldn't say an F-14 is surprisingly well suited for airborne early warning.
it's rather that iran has F all else available. what country that has acces to airborne early warning planes that carries a compliment of several officers, some of which do the exact same job, goes "you know what, lets just give all that responsibility to a 2 seater jet with one dude in charge of keeping the thing in the air and pointed in the right direction, whilst the other guy handles, well, everything else."
Its like watching a documentary listening to this guy! He knows his stuff
Thank you very much for the Sunday bonus video.
The USMC did have a AV-8B+ variant which also had an air to air radar (IIRC the same one as on the F-18C/D) and could fire AMRAAM.
If I remember correctly the radar for the Harrier B+ came because the C and D Hornets received radar upgrades and the Harriers received the old Hornet radars.
Philly mentioned just made my day. Knew an old E-Div chief who was on her, makes custom Dolphins now.
"Lack of any air cover" Jingles my man the Cobra has an Air to Air loadout with 2x AIM-9L
Jingles my friend, as someone from the upper left corner of the USA, it’s pronounced “shuh-nuck” . Please don’t get the shotgun!
Shithooks!
It’s also not even a Chinook lol, it’s a CH-46
@@Phordless_Cone They may be shithooks but by God are they still gorgeous.
@@Phordless_ConeAs a german: Bananenhelikopter!
Aktually, it's pronounced Sea Knight.
Jingles, just oughta mention that attacking surface fleets from the air "old school" (meaning with unguided bombs and rockets) isn't entirely unfeasible, so long as you have sacrificial aircraft (likely drones or manned aircraft utilizing "wild weasel" tactics, in the case of the US and NATO air forces) that can act as decoys against surface to air missiles like the RIM-7, or if you have significant radar and infrared jamming (in the case of infrared jamming for those unaware of what it implies, it's basically just blinding the IR sensors of a target or incoming missile using a suitable IR laser) to back up the airstrike.
It's not impossible, but incredibly difficult to do, and may even be the best if not only option against surface ships equipped with minimal radar observability/stealth (think Elliot Carver's stealth ship in Tomorrow Never Dies) other than just bashing at it with naval artillery Jutland-style.
Edit: While you are correct that the Tomcat has no Air-to-Surface capability, that is only true for the F-14A. The F-14A+ (later redesignated the F-14B) introduced that capability, giving it the moniker "Bombcat", and the capability was kept in place with the F-14D Super Tomcat. While this didn't change the aircraft type from Naval Interceptor to Multirole, it added the capability where it was needed.
F-14 usually had AIM-54, AIM-9 and AIM-7 Sparrow. Only the last versions had AIM-120 AMRAAM. Iranian pilots had a lot of success with AIM-54, way more than Americans.
Modern day fighters can actually pick up Phoenix on radar and engage it with their own air-to-air missiles due to its size. That is why, among other things, AIM-54 was discontinued.
The Delta Tomcats never carried the AIM-120s outside of the VX test and evaluation squadrons.