It's great to get some straight up information about Gobleki and surrounding area directly from hands on archeologists to get a better idea about how these ancient societies lived. One can only imagine that societies of various technological development existed across the continents, the same as today and since, from simple, wild tribes to complex civilizations.
Fan of GH here. I love the possibilities he opens the mind up to. I'm not saying everything he says is correct. Thank you for stepping up to debate him in front of a huge audience! I learned a lot, and it was very cool seeing the passion you have for your field of study.
@@Raokee GH is fun in a 'what if' sort of way, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem comes from him perpetuating the false narrative that 'big archaeology' is trying to suppress information, which simply isn't the case. The job of a scientist is to collect and follow the evidence, however it presents itself. Archaeologists have never outright dismissed GH's hypotheses, they've simply asked for the supporting evidence, as what they're seeing in the field doesn't fit with Graham's ideas.
"I'm not saying everything he says is correct" I'm saying nothing he says is correct. So, wow, perhaps I'm even more closed-minded that an open-minded GH fan! That's embarrassing.
With a human's propensity to mark or claim space...animal carvings on these stones seem like clan, tribe or group totems. Especially in the depiction of fierce, large, threatening or dangerous animals which may signify strengths the clan or tribe wishes to emulate...or identify a region a clan or tribe considers home territory. Reminds me of the standards carried by figures in Egyptian murals or carved totems of some Native American tribes. In today's world, I think of the Olympics or the United Nations where flags are flown representing each nation involved.
Flint, great job on your debate with GH, you seemed respectful, and you thoroughly dismantled his evidence. Joe honestly seems like an open minded guy (maybe too open minded), but it would be fun to see you, and the actual researchers on the JRE to talk about the specific sites they are working on. Also, if you do get other researchers to do something like that, maybe Andrew with Atun Shei films could help all you guys present the information more concisely, he made some good points in a recent video about scientists doubling as science communicators
By a cursory glance, many of the animals depicted prey on rodents. If grinding grains or seeds was important to these people, rodents would be a threat-and those predatory animals preying on rodents could perhaps be protected. Their carved images could be signs reminding people to respect them and their contributions to help prevent seeds from being eaten by rodents.
This was great, and loved the resources in your description! This site & others are certainly fascinating! I noticed you kept bringing up Hancock... I read you are a classical archeologist/historian, wow. One of my favorite things, ancient Greece, so I'll be spending some time on your channel; thank you so much! I read years ago the book on catelcohoak, lol, forgive the spelling! That was amazing enough, but sites like Gobekli tepi, my goodness! It's so, so, mysterious. I looked carefully at those photos of carvings, how wonderful to be able to enlarge & look at every one, long & leisurely. It's just incredible, wondering about those who carved & built this place. There may be some clues, some events these people experienced, recorded, and worshipped, events that spread over some time, and changed, petroglyphs in the American SW, and all over the world, Australia, China, strange snake-like etchings, bizarre things, alongside great pillars, towers, square shapes, that the ThunderBolts Project has theorized alongside some ongoing catastrophes, large & small. You may have to watch it twice, to see the implications & art... The timeline is a bit sketchy, but what if these builders saw things, experienced things, was their locale where the great tower came down? Its a bit hazy, like this puzzling site, but if they're on to anything, it could explain many, many petroglyphs & symbols... ua-cam.com/video/t7EAlTcZFwY/v-deo.html Oops, i just heard the conclusion, maybe the words mysterious & puzzling that i used above is offensive, lol, let me change those to awesome & awe-inspiring, lol, only because life had to be harsh, yet they expressed art or values, etc. Many, many thanks!
Yes I balked at your use of mysterious. As a child, like most kids, I loved fairy stories and used to rub interesting stones just in case a pixie would appear and grant me 3 wishes. My brother and I used to plan what our wishes would be. No 1 as many wishes as we wanted. 😂
This is great! thanks for posting, Flint! I visited the site in 2012, before they had a roof over the site. I can speak to the view on the hilltop. I visited Chaco Canyon last summer, and got to thinking about that site while listening to this interview, since it also appears to be a migratory center built in a less hospitable central location. Is there any theoretical overlap between what's used in pre-pottery Eurasian sites and SW American sites?
Hey Steph, I'm not sure what you're asking exactly. Nor am I sure if I'm the right person to answer! That said, gathering points like this are fairly common for all sorts of cultures. You could think of sanctuaries we've been to in Arcadia in a similar fashion, even if the tent ruined the view!
Couldn't the tops of the pillars be shoulders and upper arms, rather than heads? The presence of separate heads in the fill makes me wonder. If you lop off the head and the arms (below the "sleeve") of the figure at the left, it looks pretty much like a "t" pillar Just a thought.
15 minutes in and I'm loving this. Are there any accessible publications about Gobekli Tepe that discuss current thinking about its place in the context of the wider pre pottery neolithic?
@41:00 - - (I am just making an educated guess about this site) The Vultures and Headless bodies ... I understand that skulls are often found in the homes of the local people ... Sometimes buried in the floor ... Sometimes covered with clay to imitate the facial features of the passed individual -- (We have videos, film, paintings, pictures to remember our fore fathers ... ) - - So the headless body would then perhaps be given a "Sky" burial (Like the Tibetans in the Himalayas) ... So perhaps Gobekli Tepe was also used for burial/funeral rituals?? (And like our current churches you would not find residential remains in these structures ... ) People could travel to this area, bringing the body .... This method isolated the death ritual from the living and basically it prevented disease due to distance while Mother Nature (the Vultures) took care of the remains ... And possibly numerous other rituals most likely took place, like the coming of age (Boy to Manhood) ... Meeting of the heads of the local villages, to discuss current concerns ... etc and again since the people did not live near this site, you probably only had temporary structures just used for the pilgrimage so you might only find the barest traces food, fire pits, etc ...
excellent, very informative video. Although Gobekli Tepe has been "bigged up" in my opinion, it's still a fascinating site. I kept thinking that it sounds like a meeting ground or feasting site that was used multiple times. A place for different groups of people to meet at the time of year when food was abundant and do whatever people do when they get together...exchange information, eat, play games, trade, etc. The people that put up the pillars and carvings would gain status from playing host at such a cool site. I am looking forward to the other sites in the area to be studied.
You mean the fact that doubled the time frame we attributed to the beginning of civilization and yet it occurred 7,000 years before when humans were thought to only exist in small disconnected Hunter gatherer bands incapable of building monuments? More than twice the age of the pyramids. Crazy how it's been bigged up huh. A feasting site? No. Was feasting involved there? Yes. Food requiring most of the hours in a day to procure and prepare, every single day without fail.
Bigged up? If anything these very conservative Germans are not inclined at all to embellish anything! You hear him say though ancient they cannot be sure the age the slabs were engraved because they found evidence they refused some of them. 🤷 They are waiting for further excavation. This site is extraordinary and they have found several others, some older within the Turkish Syria region.
They still suffer from land slip during the winter rains. There is evidence of household rubbish from uphill middens in the excavated areas. Plus retaining walls built to try and hold the hillside back.
The talk about the atmosphere of archaeological sites in this video is so cool to me because that's the exact reason I'm studying to become an archaeologist. Like, the sense of wonder that, oh my god, this is a thing that someone made before my country even existed and before my family had a name, and I am touching it with my hands. It's so cool to see that other people feel the same way about archaeological sites, because everyone thinks I'm weird as hell when I stand in like, a Roman villa site and almost start crying lmao
Great video thank you. I missed something probably and this was not the main topic, but, if there is no pottery, no domestic animals, no domestic plants, people are hunter-gatherers, why is this even called Neolithic? Polished stone tools? The social structure? The fact of being sedentary?
AFAIK it's based on stone tool typology and conventional names for it. It's just like how now we have evidence for iron in the late Bronze Age. These names for chronological periods are conventional
If these sites where built by hunter gatherers where did they keep all their food stores? They had to have places to store the food they gathered..so they had food to eat while they did all this work. Could this be one of those places? Could the t stones be markers they used to mark individual stores?
Please normalize your audio, your voice shouldn't be 16 db lower than your guests. There's no visible microphone in view of either camera, so you could simply test your input and increase it to a similar level but you can also do it after it has been recorded and I'm quite sure all video editing software you may be using has an audio track and a compressor available, even free software would have that.
I think it started of as a burial site fore the ancestors then people started living next to it as it built up it become a place to make food and eat and some rituals to do with water as there are drain holes in the corners and pipes all over the place
@@braddbradd5671 Hilarious, son. BTW, it's "Hancock's" and "that of any scientist" so maybe brush up on your gramma before you start grandstanding on science.
This was an industry of processing plant products because the climate deteriorated beginning about 12,000 years ago evidently compelled the hunter to industrialize available material sources. Because the many pillar carvings are partially hidden by rock wall formation it indicates there was a secondary construction at a later time from the original construction.This would push back the original construction date time frame
Its all a similar layout to stone hence amorphous rock sounds like there cores for coils, any mettle or copper would have been salvaged before fill in , had something to do with blending genes
I follow the UK channel The Prehistory Guys who have had I think 2 q & a sessions with the current site administrator plus have posted their video of their recent 3 day visit to the site. Loads of up to date info including a walk round the only partly excavated local houses. All grist to the mill.
Fortunately, Gobekli Tepe became an archaeological site relatively recently when archeology had matured into a Professional Science. At +10k yrs BC, Gobekli would have been in use during the Ice Age and then abandoned at the end of the Ice Age, due to climate change, I would presume?
Look forward to the debate in October. Maybe you'll disagree on something, but watching this, Jens just said the exact same thing Hancock said. You two are clearly speculating, I don't see the issue of Hancock, or anyone else for that matter asking questions & speculating either? Pondering the intriguing mysteries of our past is a fun & interesting intellectual pursuit, & people should not be immediately dismissed, ridiculed, or slandered with a supreme ineffable arrogance for putting forth their own imaginative ideas. J Harlen Bretz is a great example of why that's not fair to anyone, including science itself. Lots of "science" cloaked in a religious type dogma these days, people like Hancock, or Robert Schoch seem to just ask questions & speculate, they're not pushing a completely outlandish dogmatic view.
Yes closed_minded science is not scientific at all it seems that knocking Hancock and others who just ask questions givs some a sense of superiority witch I think is distasteful and arrogant because they are only speculating as well !
@@jerrywatt6813Outlandish claims are the folly of fools. Hancock is one of those fools. He adds nothing to a legitimate conversation regarding archeology.
They are accurate zoomorphic maps of the entire Fertile Crescent. That is how amazing they are…hiding in plain sight for decades. People wouldn’t have known what they were looking at back then either unless they were taught. Göbeklitepe is at the very top of the highest northern hill overlooking Harran, their most precious fertile farmland. It’s a long drive to get up there so it being a temple or them dragging all their grain up there to grind on a regular basis doesn’t make sense whatsoever. We use maps to create, manage, govern, and maintain every aspect of our civilization today…and so did they. Planning is 90% of the job. The rise of civilization in Urfa was not accidental, it was well known, mapped and managed. All the “firsts” of Mesopotamia were earned. Too bad Klaus passed before I could tell him. Cheers. 😎
I took the sculptures to be a representation of the animals around them in that area in the time span of however long it was active. I might be thinking too broadly, but I can't help but wonder if they intended this location to be found in the future and to show that they understood the nature around them and how to preserve and use it. If it is supposed to be a time capsule, I hope we could find a message from the past. 😇 Either way, they had some cool artistic ideas and i give them made props for making a cool gallery.
The massed semi-industrialisation of the grain grinding process would surely have contributed to the hastening of the domestication process of wild grains to domestic. Is it possible that the iconographic animal depictions are family/ tribal groupings or maybe depictions of forefathers? I guess the exceptions are the vulture ones, possibly a priestly caste/ figurative mediator and the scorpion, warrior caste. The larger T shaped monuments being culturally more prominant people thus attracting more people to honor their memories by helping to install larger monuments? That site from what I see would be the perfect vantage point to observe the herds they would be hunting on the plain below, while protecting against extreme weather from all sides , however would rain have collected in the "navel" of the mountain or maybe this is the intent to collect for beer. Incidentally drunk hunter gatherers competing with each other by moving large rocks counds all to entirely human in nature, lols. Does any of this seem possible/ feasible as I am just a hobbyist? I find this subject fascinating so thankyou very much for taking the time to make these videos/ clips for us lay people to get a better understand of our early history. Ome as[ect of the sites I find not talked about much is the links to sound and the focal point hole? Is there any similarity at all to these ones in anatolia and the ancient cave on malta. Even today in science resonance is not studied vigorously and that fascinates me, not to the point of hyperbole however.
Listening to the various thoughts on the animal carvings brought to mind the quite recent habit of hanging bits of hunted trophy animals such as lions, bears, deer etc on house walls. Also the plethora of paintings of horses, dogs, wild deer etc that are sold still. Maybe there was sometimes nothing more than a love of decorating? Mind you the images of scorpions etc also suggests a possible religious aspect? I gather ftom the recent discovery of a boar carving that it was painted. This makes it even more interesting. Plus the image on the face of a bench of a man, clutching his crown jewels with a panther like animal on either side of him is almost cartoonish. Plus in Christian countries the crucifix and the cross can be z large representarion carried in religious procesions. Smaller ones used in churches. Plain wood or gem encrusted gold. Used in homes. Worn as a religious amulet or just jewelry. Or also a hand sign such as many sports people use prior to doing whatever it is they do. It is all too easy to forget that we still use symbols ourselves.
Again first jumping to the conclusion that the site is religious is probably wrong. Building and structures are most likely related to daily living and social interaction.
Welcome to science, SC. None of the super-confident absolutisms of the anti-science proselytisers that is so convincing to those with no science background.
an ancient refidim (the plural of rafid, comforter, helper) a place of rest, pleasure manatha (death-cult) and efratha (place of joy) a dualistic world-view .
When I look at Gobekli Tepe, I don't see the work of an advanced civilization, and I don't know what alien art would look like. It looks to me like something that "primitive" hunter-gatherers could do, it's just surprising that they would. Something that strikes me about Early Monumental Architecture is how unconcerned the builders were with precise shapes. These monuments are circular, but not circles; the stones are rectangular, but not clean smooth rectangles. Stonehenge in Britain is the same. I wonder exactly when and more interestingly, why it finally occurred to someone to make square corners and smooth surfaces. It's not surprising the early stuff is not smooth and square because nature is not smooth and square, the people who created these things had never seen smooth and square and I assume it never occurred to them to even try. So why did this change? How did the thought happen try to make things smooth and square?
This was not done by 10 or 100 craftsmen but by a 1000 or more. That means a settlement of 2000-3000 people around it at least, an organised society with an elite of war-leaders, shamans and a strict labor division, one group to cut blocks out of rock, another to transport them, and another to smooth them or carve them. That also means competition between individuals, not every labor or craft had the same popularity or regard. So when there is an hierarchy from lower, skilled from everage to the best the result will be a rapid evolvement of skills through the whole production-line. It is up to the elite to use/manage this to a point where there is a balance between the input (labor) and the output (benefits) for the settlement as a whole ( you will not do more labor then neccessary ). Of course this was build as a regional atraction, carnival where you could eat and drink, eventually find a mate or partner, making friends and celebrating. There must have been a system of primitive taxation or religious offering by nearby settlements to keep the whole thing thriving. There must have been a certain calendar or seasonal awareness to come together on certain days, cultural, religious impulses, simply the animals that played a role in their oral tradition, and maybe star-observation.
There are 2 constructions one giant elephant bird. They are like tractors and can move largest stones. The smaller stone construction is human. To different species of construction
the fact that animal movement and grain etc. was used points to a very green environment which gives the site today a very false picture of when it was built.
When people had to migrate with the weather, I think we built processing plants with a community center. By doing this, they were able to learn from others mistakes instead of their own. This helped speed the process of learning skills like farming, medicine, building, cooking, tayloring, weaving and eventually blacksmithing. Once this knowledge spread, the use of these sites weren't necessary.
Looking just at images of these structures and the carvings makes me think that Avebury, Stonehenge etc in Britain, Carnac in France and other stone structures from just 5000 years or less ago in western europe are pretty crude in comparison. 😢
Pls use the local, and meaningful name of Mirazan. It means "miracle maker." Local women still make offering to the site, paying for having a chilld. The official government name for hill, is Gobekli, which mean "potbelly." Do you prefer that to the local name that speaks of 12000 years of history, respecting the place as a fertility symbol?
@@williamverhoef4349 Thanks. I think a simple "Mirazan" is easier to remember and use. It should be the name for that entire acient culture, not just for one single hill: Mirazan Culture, to cover all the related remains and hills.
I don't. I hate the lies that are popular on the internet about the site. It's a phenomenal site and there are phenomenal archaeologists who work there studying it
It looks like a solar powered brewery to me. Probably had a spring up hill feeding the covered fermentation vats down below. Beer was more valuable than gold.
No mystery! It demonstrates "The Great Mysteries", frankly Archaeologists, a sub-discipline of Anthropology, should be well aware of what I am about to say, it is The Story of Mankind. It must involve multidisciplinary science to understand the 'context' of the site. The Tas Tepeler People would gather there during the pre-perihelion of The Taurid Meteor Stream, our most recent. This is the Ancient New Year after Five Days of the Festival of the Dead, those who died in The Younger Dryas Impacts Fact that occurred very recently in their culture. It is universal,e.g., the Mesoamericans essentially did the exact same thing and at the same time with oceans of isolation between, because it was a cosmic spectacle that the whole world witnessed, lived through, and died from. The Mesoamericans had The Five Unlucky Days wherein we were afraid of being bombarded by space debris once again causing "The End of the World" and would sacrifice propitiating The Feathered Serpent from the Pleiades, the radiant of said stream, to not take away the Sun again, for a long period of time, Impact Winter. This is why Pillar 18 stands domineeringly on top of the symbol of the Pleiades, seven birds in a row. There is much more to it, but I suspect denial has set in, I think it is a genetic memory we all have of the terror. See my 144k word work that scholars prove repetitively before said stream was known of, 1950! "The speed of a bird or the poison of a snake." It is much more probable that they both fly as does an arrow. A meteors traveling downward through the multi-directional atmospheric layers appears very much like wriggling snakes, e.g., the Egyptians had a feather serpent and the Druids talked about flying serpents. And it is a Dragon in arm of Pillar 18 alike Gilgamesh with a lion iconography. Plus one of your "foxes" is aflame as a superbolide and the Chinese New Year Dragons chasing a bright pearl accompanied with fireworks, compare to the footage of the 2013 event.
Very good take! I’m pleasantly surprised to hear it from the comment section and certainly not from archaeologists. The reality of the Taurids and their devastation at certain long period cycles is hardly known. The irony is it’s right in front of our faces in archaic symbol, myth and religion once you accept the paradigm. Perfect example of this is with this site. While they, “professional” diggers uncover the site in slow motion they failed to see the big picture as in the huge geogyph of Taurus and the Pleiades directly over the once buried site. You have to go back to 2006 google aerial maps to see it.
I don’t know I don’t have an opinion about paintings that I consider 99.999% finished. In my mind, I have nothing to improve in these paintings. This is the only reason I don’t touch them anymore. Art collectors from around the world get to see only does 99.999% paintings close to completion they don’t get to see 50% works in progress. In my past experience, people insisted on buying something that was definitely not expressing myself completely. I don’t want to do it again. #Bogoslowsky 🦁🤴
I have an 18 inch bird humerus complete. If I use the human equation for a 18 inch upper leg bone the bird would be 10 ft tall. Just image the size of the elephant birds brain. It would be twice our size.
And they would obviously say mechanical advantage. If one says they don't know, that could only mean they don't know which particular type of mechanical advantage was employed.
For shure it was a ritual place, but ritual are places were children learn. Scary animals are predators, good to teach respect for them and fear is warming system.
Every thing you have pointed out is contemporaneous. Not really filling a gap. It might be similar to comparing Skyscrapers to wooden structures that are ten mile apart but built in the same century. All existing in the same time frame but none inferior to the others just practicality. You haven’t moved the ball. You are still in the same neighborhood. People today are still hunting and gathering. We know that Humans traveled to the new world before this time. Everything with you is communal. Skyscrapers are not communal they are built by rich individuals for selfish purposes not for sharing. You have to pay to have a place in one. The buildings you are talking about were probably built by slaves. Not for worship but for power. You are making the same argument he is making there were large lost civilizations existed even without pottery. The truth is there have probably been permanent villages for hundreds of thousands of years.
If you want contemporaries with hunter gatherers read the literature about people we were captured by Native Americans in the 17th and 18th centuries. This being after they captured horses brought from new world the Spaniards. Did the copper age in the Americas develop independently from Eurasia? We know that the Inca didn’t lay the foundations of Machu Pichu. Not only that there is stone working that can’t be replicated there.
The main problem I am having with this discussion is that the logic of the interpretation is not in line with the chronology. The bottom-line as far as archaeology is concerned is that the large oval structures with relief-bearing T-pillars at G.T. are still, thus far, the type original site of the T-pillar cult. Therefore, you cannot claim that for example the vulture iconography shown on Pillar 43 has an older, wider iconographic context because you haven't proved it yet. This fuzziness in logic surprises me. Just the same, the DAI team performed soundings of small oval structures resting on bedrock at GT2 and have now insinuated (i.e. Lee Claire) that this means the oldest and thus far most original T-oval, and I mean Enclosure D, was born into a settled site without actually having proven this with 14C-dating. And the third instance of this fuzziness is this: You asked Jens Notroff about the mystery of the sudden appearance into a vacuum of the T-piilar cult. He did not answer the question because he cannot. Oval D remains the oldest such site. You cannot yet claim that oval D was born into a context of T-ovals when you don't have older sites where you see ovals with T's. What is missing is the concept of competing models: One model predicts that the cult arose endogenously, the other that it was imported. At this point you cannot rule out one or the other model. You cannot rule out a model simply because you think it's implausible. Plausibility is not a scientific standard. In that respect I take issue with your use of the term pseudo-scientific. You are not demonstrating an understanding of the scientific method of falsification in this interview. The scientific rationales on which the different interpretation rest are not laid out well in this interview. Any upcoming debate must focus on rationales and how to scientifically adjudicate them. This is not apparent in this interview. The problem with the interpretative method as it represented here is that of clawing back context from younger to older and then using that clawed-back, time-reverse-engineered context to interpret the oldest known part of G.T., i.e. the mortar of Enclosure D's wall and samples from the northwest of that oval, i.e. UGAMS 10795, 10796, and 10799. Even if Claire's team is nt actually doing this, I cannot imagine that the DAI would employ them if they did, the way this is being represented in interviews is not clear. To sum: You cannot reverse engineer a wider context by going back in time and then make the claim that wider context is original or causative to a local observation as if that local phenomenon is younger than this engineered context. That is actually a feat of pseudo-science. Try getting this past a Ph.D. committee in the sciences.
i cant hear this göbeklitepe bs anymore:the most fascinating thing is that they coordinated 100th off people with different skills.....,that appleys to any big site,and shows only that göbeklitepe is the end off a long way,not the beginning
" Graham Hancock has no Idea what gobekli tepi was used for....." Yes, Graham Hancock has NO idea. ".....and neither do archaeologists" Come on, archeologists have SOME idea, right?
with the first photograph i love(!) how ppl sterotyping the areas colors :D. dude just wear your casual work wears... here arabs turks and kurds wears different things but none of them are one of yours :D.
The elephant bird did not have teeth so they developed humans with large brains because they ate human brains. They also developed corn because birds like corn.
Have you considered the idea that the animal carvings were actually educational diagrams for children to learn from? Perhaps these structures were protection from predators and the carvings were like a kindergarten to familiarise young people to be accustomed to predators on the outside? Just thought. 😎
A good point has been made that the animals presented are all ones that would have been more visible in the wetter season, suggesting its a bit of a calendar showing when they would go to the uplands like Gobekli Tepe.
Wrong, the stones are bird perches, the elephant bird which was smart enough to go Stone Age. The elephant bird built everything and the incessant Mayans ext found these structures
Were your parents archeologists? That would explain Flint Dibble. It doesn’t really have to do with this video but I think you were very unfair in criticizing Graham Hancock’s Netflix series. Many archeologists apparently lose their scientific objectivity when faced with theories that don’t fit their timeline of history. They say he is a pseudoscientist but he has never claimed to be anything but a journalist. He’s been called a racist but married a woman of color and has supported indigenous peoples rights. He has raised important questions regarding ancient history and the possibility of a lost civilization wiped out at the end of the last ice age. I think the discovery of stone age architecture like Gobekli Tepe and Catalhoyuk should make us all re examine the dominant paradigm. The slanderous ad hominem attacks he has faced are probative that there are many narrow minded mainstream archeologists who are prejudiced, defensive of their clichés and cruel. God help the students they teach. If you claim to be a scientist, which I do, use scientific methods to explore the world, make and test theories and honestly examine the work of others. It allows us to be surprised and challenged by the twists and turns of the past. What is science without an open mind? It’s a religion.
yet, we have learned from a Swissy, who has had over 800 face t face chats with human E Ts since 1942. They tell that all on Earth today are ET, that the ET's records show the Prophet Nokodemius to have lived over 11 BILLION years ago.
, so humankind was Created well before that, in the Sagittarius Region, accordng to them. Also that a Great Time. ie LIFE, of a Universe, is 311.04 trillion years, into which we are app. 70T years.. In any case there are 7 Great Times with equal time rests between each, followed by a rest of the same such period.. then the cycle restarting.
The only "fantastical" part about the pillars, IMO, is the image of the buzzard, or similar bird, that is anthropomorphized and holding the sun, or similar object. Gave me a feeling of religious connotations. Could have been a funerary compound where, perhaps, bodies were fed to wildlife, like they do in some areas today. Could have been some form of skull cult as well, which is why the man pillars have no heads. Of course, I've done absolutely no research, lol just typical pseudo archeology on my part
"Very, very challenging to understand this construction..." IMAGINE building and deconstruction/ changing construction INVOLVED. You cant make something of something NOT KNOWN at this point. You need more time and data. Entrances known to have huge stones that could block entry from the inside securely locking themselves within from hazard and danger from some outside source. Forget Graham Hancock at this point; hard as that may be.
While I do disagree with Graham Hancock, and stand with your assertions.. I do wish you were excited about archeology. I am sure personally you would say you are, but you come off like you hate people that are excited about archeology. If you had the excitement Graham had the truth would be easier to find. Wish you the best!
Am I the only one the sees clearly that there are no entrances to the interior of the enclosures? Clearly this geo-technology. Survivors of the cataclysm still knew the secrets of hatnrssing earth power.
While the people lived on the valley, if attacked by others or a large herd of migrating animals came, they could go there. With the tactical advantage, their chances of survival would be much greater. Before religion, self preservation was early humans #1 goal.
It's great to get some straight up information about Gobleki and surrounding area directly from hands on archeologists to get a better idea about how these ancient societies lived. One can only imagine that societies of various technological development existed across the continents, the same as today and since, from simple, wild tribes to complex civilizations.
Fascinating and really filled out information on the site. Thanks
Fan of GH here. I love the possibilities he opens the mind up to. I'm not saying everything he says is correct. Thank you for stepping up to debate him in front of a huge audience! I learned a lot, and it was very cool seeing the passion you have for your field of study.
@@Raokee GH is fun in a 'what if' sort of way, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem comes from him perpetuating the false narrative that 'big archaeology' is trying to suppress information, which simply isn't the case. The job of a scientist is to collect and follow the evidence, however it presents itself. Archaeologists have never outright dismissed GH's hypotheses, they've simply asked for the supporting evidence, as what they're seeing in the field doesn't fit with Graham's ideas.
"I'm not saying everything he says is correct"
I'm saying nothing he says is correct. So, wow, perhaps I'm even more closed-minded that an open-minded GH fan! That's embarrassing.
With a human's propensity to mark or claim space...animal carvings on these stones seem like clan, tribe or group totems. Especially in the depiction of fierce, large, threatening or dangerous animals which may signify strengths the clan or tribe wishes to emulate...or identify a region a clan or tribe considers home territory. Reminds me of the standards carried by figures in Egyptian murals or carved totems of some Native American tribes. In today's world, I think of the Olympics or the United Nations where flags are flown representing each nation involved.
Thank you guys for all of the hard work you do. Your observations are amazing and intriguing. Keep it up!
Flint, great job on your debate with GH, you seemed respectful, and you thoroughly dismantled his evidence.
Joe honestly seems like an open minded guy (maybe too open minded), but it would be fun to see you, and the actual researchers on the JRE to talk about the specific sites they are working on.
Also, if you do get other researchers to do something like that, maybe Andrew with Atun Shei films could help all you guys present the information more concisely, he made some good points in a recent video about scientists doubling as science communicators
Great topic, amazing information, really cool accent, this is some awesome content. Good job and have a great day Flint.
20 mins through and fantastic so far! 👍
By a cursory glance, many of the animals depicted prey on rodents. If grinding grains or seeds was important to these people, rodents would be a threat-and those predatory animals preying on rodents could perhaps be protected. Their carved images could be signs reminding people to respect them and their contributions to help prevent seeds from being eaten by rodents.
A good theory!
Good talk, excellent guest, amazing explanations and pictures!
Excellent presentation . Very exciting. Thank you.
One of the best interviews on GT I've seen. I only miss more context on the Nevali-Çorian overall culture, especially their economy.
Enlightened I am. Thanks both of you.
This was great, and loved the resources in your description!
This site & others are certainly fascinating! I noticed you kept bringing up Hancock...
I read you are a classical archeologist/historian, wow. One of my favorite things, ancient Greece, so I'll be spending some time on your channel; thank you so much!
I read years ago the book on catelcohoak, lol, forgive the spelling! That was amazing enough, but sites like Gobekli tepi, my goodness! It's so, so, mysterious.
I looked carefully at those photos of carvings, how wonderful to be able to enlarge & look at every one, long & leisurely. It's just incredible, wondering about those who carved & built this place.
There may be some clues, some events these people experienced, recorded, and worshipped, events that spread over some time, and changed, petroglyphs in the American SW, and all over the world, Australia, China, strange snake-like etchings, bizarre things, alongside great pillars, towers, square shapes, that the ThunderBolts Project has theorized alongside some ongoing catastrophes, large & small. You may have to watch it twice, to see the implications & art... The timeline is a bit sketchy, but what if these builders saw things, experienced things, was their locale where the great tower came down? Its a bit hazy, like this puzzling site, but if they're on to anything, it could explain many, many petroglyphs & symbols...
ua-cam.com/video/t7EAlTcZFwY/v-deo.html
Oops, i just heard the conclusion, maybe the words mysterious & puzzling that i used above is offensive, lol, let me change those to awesome & awe-inspiring, lol, only because life had to be harsh, yet they expressed art or values, etc. Many, many thanks!
Brilliant,🌟🌍 well done.
Yes I balked at your use of mysterious. As a child, like most kids, I loved fairy stories and used to rub interesting stones just in case a pixie would appear and grant me 3 wishes. My brother and I used to plan what our wishes would be. No 1 as many wishes as we wanted. 😂
This is great! thanks for posting, Flint! I visited the site in 2012, before they had a roof over the site. I can speak to the view on the hilltop.
I visited Chaco Canyon last summer, and got to thinking about that site while listening to this interview, since it also appears to be a migratory center built in a less hospitable central location. Is there any theoretical overlap between what's used in pre-pottery Eurasian sites and SW American sites?
Hey Steph, I'm not sure what you're asking exactly. Nor am I sure if I'm the right person to answer!
That said, gathering points like this are fairly common for all sorts of cultures. You could think of sanctuaries we've been to in Arcadia in a similar fashion, even if the tent ruined the view!
I was under the impression Chaco was a permanent habitation site
Couldn't the tops of the pillars be shoulders and upper arms, rather than heads? The presence of separate heads in the fill makes me wonder. If you lop off the head and the arms (below the "sleeve") of the figure at the left, it looks pretty much like a "t" pillar Just a thought.
good work. thank you for paying attention and not being afraid to post. just saying. 🌈
15 minutes in and I'm loving this.
Are there any accessible publications about Gobekli Tepe that discuss current thinking about its place in the context of the wider pre pottery neolithic?
Do an academic literature search. Is a German project but they do write English translation versions.
North 02, hope that's ok Flint. Just the facts. 🌋
@41:00 - - (I am just making an educated guess about this site) The Vultures and Headless bodies ... I understand that skulls are often found in the homes of the local people ... Sometimes buried in the floor ... Sometimes covered with clay to imitate the facial features of the passed individual -- (We have videos, film, paintings, pictures to remember our fore fathers ... ) - - So the headless body would then perhaps be given a "Sky" burial (Like the Tibetans in the Himalayas) ... So perhaps Gobekli Tepe was also used for burial/funeral rituals?? (And like our current churches you would not find residential remains in these structures ... ) People could travel to this area, bringing the body .... This method isolated the death ritual from the living and basically it prevented disease due to distance while Mother Nature (the Vultures) took care of the remains ...
And possibly numerous other rituals most likely took place, like the coming of age (Boy to Manhood) ... Meeting of the heads of the local villages, to discuss current concerns ... etc and again since the people did not live near this site, you probably only had temporary structures just used for the pilgrimage so you might only find the barest traces food, fire pits, etc ...
excellent, very informative video. Although Gobekli Tepe has been "bigged up" in my opinion, it's still a fascinating site. I kept thinking that it sounds like a meeting ground or feasting site that was used multiple times. A place for different groups of people to meet at the time of year when food was abundant and do whatever people do when they get together...exchange information, eat, play games, trade, etc. The people that put up the pillars and carvings would gain status from playing host at such a cool site. I am looking forward to the other sites in the area to be studied.
You mean the fact that doubled the time frame we attributed to the beginning of civilization and yet it occurred 7,000 years before when humans were thought to only exist in small disconnected Hunter gatherer bands incapable of building monuments? More than twice the age of the pyramids. Crazy how it's been bigged up huh. A feasting site? No. Was feasting involved there? Yes. Food requiring most of the hours in a day to procure and prepare, every single day without fail.
Bigged up? If anything these very conservative Germans are not inclined at all to embellish anything! You hear him say though ancient they cannot be sure the age the slabs were engraved because they found evidence they refused some of them. 🤷 They are waiting for further excavation. This site is extraordinary and they have found several others, some older within the Turkish Syria region.
These videos are so fascinating. It makes me want to study archeology or at least volunteer at a site to learn more.
Great discussion. QUESTION is there evidence of earthquake damage.
1:06:00 he does mention some potential earthquakes forced repairs.
They still suffer from land slip during the winter rains. There is evidence of household rubbish from uphill middens in the excavated areas. Plus retaining walls built to try and hold the hillside back.
The talk about the atmosphere of archaeological sites in this video is so cool to me because that's the exact reason I'm studying to become an archaeologist. Like, the sense of wonder that, oh my god, this is a thing that someone made before my country even existed and before my family had a name, and I am touching it with my hands. It's so cool to see that other people feel the same way about archaeological sites, because everyone thinks I'm weird as hell when I stand in like, a Roman villa site and almost start crying lmao
Hahaha! So much of archaeology is and should be about our own connection with the past
Good luck with your studies!
Just a shout-out to Gutsick Gibbon who led me to this great channel 😁
Great video thank you. I missed something probably and this was not the main topic, but, if there is no pottery, no domestic animals, no domestic plants, people are hunter-gatherers, why is this even called Neolithic? Polished stone tools? The social structure? The fact of being sedentary?
AFAIK it's based on stone tool typology and conventional names for it. It's just like how now we have evidence for iron in the late Bronze Age. These names for chronological periods are conventional
Amazing episode!!! Thank you 🙏
Those pictures of the site are breathtaking!
Have they found the bones of any 'Tepe' yet ? Anyone know ?
Thank you so much! I absolutely loved this interview and learned so much guys 🙏
What about weapons? Have they found any weapons?
Maybe the snake and birds near the arrow straightener has to do with the materials they used? Venom tipped arrows and feathers?
If these sites where built by hunter gatherers where did they keep all their food stores? They had to have places to store the food they gathered..so they had food to eat while they did all this work. Could this be one of those places? Could the t stones be markers they used to mark individual stores?
Please normalize your audio, your voice shouldn't be 16 db lower than your guests. There's no visible microphone in view of either camera, so you could simply test your input and increase it to a similar level but you can also do it after it has been recorded and I'm quite sure all video editing software you may be using has an audio track and a compressor available, even free software would have that.
😂😂😂
It's connected to the temples in Malta.
The T structures look like Roof supports. Hasn't anyone suggested these are roof supports?
Yes I've heard that.
Yes, they have.
Good job.
Graham Hancock has screwed all these people's heads up. He has made a religion of his MYTHS....
I think it started of as a burial site fore the ancestors then people started living next to it as it built up it become a place to make food and eat and some rituals to do with water as there are drain holes in the corners and pipes all over the place
"I think"
I think that's how Graham Hancock got started, but never progressed beyond.
I hope you do better.
@@williamverhoef4349 My guess is as good as Hancocks or any scientist out there and even you
@@braddbradd5671
Hilarious, son.
BTW, it's "Hancock's" and "that of any scientist" so maybe brush up on your gramma before you start grandstanding on science.
@@williamverhoef4349 Keep your hair on its only UA-cam not a job interview
@@braddbradd5671
But when you're bragging....
Just sayin', son, maybe play it up a notch.
Missed the live stream but thanks for the video.
This was an industry of processing plant products because the climate deteriorated beginning about 12,000 years ago evidently compelled the hunter to industrialize available material sources.
Because the many pillar carvings are partially hidden by rock wall formation it indicates there was a secondary construction at a later time from the original construction.This would push back the original construction date time frame
I'm also interested in communal grinding events.
That porn site is over there -->
Its all a similar layout to stone hence amorphous rock sounds like there cores for coils, any mettle or copper would have been salvaged before fill in , had something to do with blending genes
Yup, they were obviously built to generate power. I’m not sure why people don’t understand it.
I follow the UK channel The Prehistory Guys who have had I think 2 q & a sessions with the current site administrator plus have posted their video of their recent 3 day visit to the site. Loads of up to date info including a walk round the only partly excavated local houses. All grist to the mill.
Fortunately, Gobekli Tepe became an archaeological site relatively recently when archeology had matured into a Professional Science. At +10k yrs BC, Gobekli would have been in use during the Ice Age and then abandoned at the end of the Ice Age, due to climate change, I would presume?
Look forward to the debate in October.
Maybe you'll disagree on something, but watching this, Jens just said the exact same thing Hancock said.
You two are clearly speculating, I don't see the issue of Hancock, or anyone else for that matter asking questions & speculating either?
Pondering the intriguing mysteries of our past is a fun & interesting intellectual pursuit, & people should not be immediately dismissed, ridiculed, or slandered with a supreme ineffable arrogance for putting forth their own imaginative ideas.
J Harlen Bretz is a great example of why that's not fair to anyone, including science itself.
Lots of "science" cloaked in a religious type dogma these days, people like Hancock, or Robert Schoch seem to just ask questions & speculate, they're not pushing a completely outlandish dogmatic view.
Yes closed_minded science is not scientific at all it seems that knocking Hancock and others who just ask questions givs some a sense of superiority witch I think is distasteful and arrogant because they are only speculating as well !
@@jerrywatt6813Outlandish claims are the folly of fools. Hancock is one of those fools. He adds nothing to a legitimate conversation regarding archeology.
@@FriedPi-mc5yt read the above AGAIN ???
@@jerrywatt6813 Why? Hancock is a joke.
I can’t wait to watch you demolish Graham “The Grifter” Hancock on JRE! Thank you
What a pathetic comment. All that happened during the debate was Flint demonstrated how he lives in his father’s shadow and how childish he is.
Oh yeah, just post a picture of a chicken and try to convince us it's a dinosaur, as if that had worked in the past.
They are accurate zoomorphic maps of the entire Fertile Crescent. That is how amazing they are…hiding in plain sight for decades. People wouldn’t have known what they were looking at back then either unless they were taught. Göbeklitepe is at the very top of the highest northern hill overlooking Harran, their most precious fertile farmland. It’s a long drive to get up there so it being a temple or them dragging all their grain up there to grind on a regular basis doesn’t make sense whatsoever. We use maps to create, manage, govern, and maintain every aspect of our civilization today…and so did they. Planning is 90% of the job. The rise of civilization in Urfa was not accidental, it was well known, mapped and managed. All the “firsts” of Mesopotamia were earned. Too bad Klaus passed before I could tell him. Cheers. 😎
I took the sculptures to be a representation of the animals around them in that area in the time span of however long it was active. I might be thinking too broadly, but I can't help but wonder if they intended this location to be found in the future and to show that they understood the nature around them and how to preserve and use it. If it is supposed to be a time capsule, I hope we could find a message from the past. 😇 Either way, they had some cool artistic ideas and i give them made props for making a cool gallery.
Thanks!👍
Danke Shean,computer corrects my German
The massed semi-industrialisation of the grain grinding process would surely have contributed to the hastening of the domestication process of wild grains to domestic. Is it possible that the iconographic animal depictions are family/ tribal groupings or maybe depictions of forefathers? I guess the exceptions are the vulture ones, possibly a priestly caste/ figurative mediator and the scorpion, warrior caste. The larger T shaped monuments being culturally more prominant people thus attracting more people to honor their memories by helping to install larger monuments? That site from what I see would be the perfect vantage point to observe the herds they would be hunting on the plain below, while protecting against extreme weather from all sides , however would rain have collected in the "navel" of the mountain or maybe this is the intent to collect for beer. Incidentally drunk hunter gatherers competing with each other by moving large rocks counds all to entirely human in nature, lols. Does any of this seem possible/ feasible as I am just a hobbyist? I find this subject fascinating so thankyou very much for taking the time to make these videos/ clips for us lay people to get a better understand of our early history. Ome as[ect of the sites I find not talked about much is the links to sound and the focal point hole? Is there any similarity at all to these ones in anatolia and the ancient cave on malta. Even today in science resonance is not studied vigorously and that fascinates me, not to the point of hyperbole however.
What the heck.. FANTASTICAL CLAIMS and Emotions at the site.. Really?
Listening to the various thoughts on the animal carvings brought to mind the quite recent habit of hanging bits of hunted trophy animals such as lions, bears, deer etc on house walls.
Also the plethora of paintings of horses, dogs, wild deer etc that are sold still.
Maybe there was sometimes nothing more than a love of decorating? Mind you the images of scorpions etc also suggests a possible religious aspect?
I gather ftom the recent discovery of a boar carving that it was painted. This makes it even more interesting.
Plus the image on the face of a bench of a man, clutching his crown jewels with a panther like animal on either side of him is almost cartoonish.
Plus in Christian countries the crucifix and the cross can be z large representarion carried in religious procesions. Smaller ones used in churches. Plain wood or gem encrusted gold.
Used in homes. Worn as a religious amulet or just jewelry. Or also a hand sign such as many sports people use prior to doing whatever it is they do.
It is all too easy to forget that we still use symbols ourselves.
Again first jumping to the conclusion that the site is religious is probably wrong. Building and structures are most likely related to daily living and social interaction.
You undercut credibility by the mentions and comparisons with Hancock..
Yeah, he's a quack and a druggie.
Thanks
I wonder if vultures were worshipped as a bird of death sort of, minions of the gods of death sort of.
TY 4 calling out the psuedos like Handcock & UchartedX. GT was not built by Fred Flintstone on his bronto-crane.
Yabba dabba doo! 😂❤
Maybe, could be, in my opinion, there are some hints, it seems likely, might, my perspective. Well I’m convinced.
Welcome to science, SC.
None of the super-confident absolutisms of the anti-science proselytisers that is so convincing to those with no science background.
an ancient refidim (the plural of rafid, comforter, helper) a place of rest, pleasure
manatha (death-cult) and efratha (place of joy) a dualistic world-view .
When I look at Gobekli Tepe, I don't see the work of an advanced civilization, and I don't know what alien art would look like. It looks to me like something that "primitive" hunter-gatherers could do, it's just surprising that they would. Something that strikes me about Early Monumental Architecture is how unconcerned the builders were with precise shapes. These monuments are circular, but not circles; the stones are rectangular, but not clean smooth rectangles. Stonehenge in Britain is the same. I wonder exactly when and more interestingly, why it finally occurred to someone to make square corners and smooth surfaces. It's not surprising the early stuff is not smooth and square because nature is not smooth and square, the people who created these things had never seen smooth and square and I assume it never occurred to them to even try. So why did this change? How did the thought happen try to make things smooth and square?
This was not done by 10 or 100 craftsmen but by a 1000 or more. That means a settlement of 2000-3000 people around it at least, an organised society with an elite of war-leaders, shamans and a strict labor division, one group to cut blocks out of rock, another to transport them, and another to smooth them or carve them. That also means competition between individuals, not every labor or craft had the same popularity or regard. So when there is an hierarchy from lower, skilled from everage to the best the result will be a rapid evolvement of skills through the whole production-line.
It is up to the elite to use/manage this to a point where there is a balance between the input (labor) and the output (benefits) for the settlement as a whole ( you will not do more labor then neccessary ).
Of course this was build as a regional atraction, carnival where you could eat and drink, eventually find a mate or partner, making friends and celebrating. There must have been a system of primitive taxation or religious offering by nearby settlements to keep the whole thing thriving. There must have been a certain calendar or seasonal awareness to come together on certain days, cultural, religious impulses, simply the animals that played a role in their oral tradition, and maybe star-observation.
There are 2 constructions one giant elephant bird. They are like tractors and can move largest stones. The smaller stone construction is human. To different species of construction
the fact that animal movement and grain etc. was used points to a very green environment which gives the site today a very false picture of when it was built.
When people had to migrate with the weather, I think we built processing plants with a community center. By doing this, they were able to learn from others mistakes instead of their own. This helped speed the process of learning skills like farming, medicine, building, cooking, tayloring, weaving and eventually blacksmithing. Once this knowledge spread, the use of these sites weren't necessary.
Looking just at images of these structures and the carvings makes me think that Avebury, Stonehenge etc in Britain, Carnac in France and other stone structures from just 5000 years or less ago in western europe are pretty crude in comparison. 😢
Graham Hancock would argue you haven't excavated 100% of the site so how could you possibly say that !! Lol.
And then if they did excavate 100% of the site, he would move the goalposts again.
Is this the site where Noah's offspring were worshipping Idols of animals?
Pls use the local, and meaningful name of Mirazan. It means "miracle maker." Local women still make offering to the site, paying for having a chilld. The official government name for hill, is Gobekli, which mean "potbelly." Do you prefer that to the local name that speaks of 12000 years of history, respecting the place as a fertility symbol?
Or maybe Gire Mirazan. Or Xerabreske.
Maybe in brackets after the now familiar name like we do here with the Aboriginal place names.
@@williamverhoef4349 Thanks. I think a simple "Mirazan" is easier to remember and use. It should be the name for that entire acient culture, not just for one single hill: Mirazan Culture, to cover all the related remains and hills.
The one piller of the man with a fox in his belt appears to be Gigamesh.
It is, and Gilgamesh is another name of Noah. This is a temple based on the Flood.
This pre-dates the epic of gilgamesh by almost 6000 years.
Why do you hate Gobekli Tepi?
I don't. I hate the lies that are popular on the internet about the site. It's a phenomenal site and there are phenomenal archaeologists who work there studying it
@@FlintDibble Great! Good to know. 👍
It looks like a solar powered brewery to me. Probably had a spring up hill feeding the covered fermentation vats down below. Beer was more valuable than gold.
It's located on top of a hill with nothing very close that's higher.
No mystery! It demonstrates "The Great Mysteries", frankly Archaeologists, a sub-discipline of Anthropology, should be well aware of what I am about to say, it is The Story of Mankind. It must involve multidisciplinary science to understand the 'context' of the site. The Tas Tepeler People would gather there during the pre-perihelion of The Taurid Meteor Stream, our most recent. This is the Ancient New Year after Five Days of the Festival of the Dead, those who died in The Younger Dryas Impacts Fact that occurred very recently in their culture. It is universal,e.g., the Mesoamericans essentially did the exact same thing and at the same time with oceans of isolation between, because it was a cosmic spectacle that the whole world witnessed, lived through, and died from. The Mesoamericans had The Five Unlucky Days wherein we were afraid of being bombarded by space debris once again causing "The End of the World" and would sacrifice propitiating The Feathered Serpent from the Pleiades, the radiant of said stream, to not take away the Sun again, for a long period of time, Impact Winter. This is why Pillar 18 stands domineeringly on top of the symbol of the Pleiades, seven birds in a row. There is much more to it, but I suspect denial has set in, I think it is a genetic memory we all have of the terror. See my 144k word work that scholars prove repetitively before said stream was known of, 1950! "The speed of a bird or the poison of a snake." It is much more probable that they both fly as does an arrow. A meteors traveling downward through the multi-directional atmospheric layers appears very much like wriggling snakes, e.g., the Egyptians had a feather serpent and the Druids talked about flying serpents. And it is a Dragon in arm of Pillar 18 alike Gilgamesh with a lion iconography. Plus one of your "foxes" is aflame as a superbolide and the Chinese New Year Dragons chasing a bright pearl accompanied with fireworks, compare to the footage of the 2013 event.
Very good take! I’m pleasantly surprised to hear it from the comment section and certainly not from archaeologists. The reality of the Taurids and their devastation at certain long period cycles is hardly known. The irony is it’s right in front of our faces in archaic symbol, myth and religion once you accept the paradigm. Perfect example of this is with this site. While they, “professional” diggers uncover the site in slow motion they failed to see the big picture as in the huge geogyph of Taurus and the Pleiades directly over the once buried site. You have to go back to 2006 google aerial maps to see it.
See, this is why is important to limit our assumptions to what the evidence is showing, otherwise you end up spouting nonsense like this.
I don’t know I don’t have an opinion about paintings that I consider 99.999% finished.
In my mind, I have nothing to improve in these paintings. This is the only reason I don’t touch them anymore.
Art collectors from around the world get to see only does 99.999% paintings close to completion they don’t get to see 50% works in progress.
In my past experience, people insisted on buying something that was definitely not expressing myself completely. I don’t want to do it again.
#Bogoslowsky 🦁🤴
Maybe it served as a school or teaching thing too for kids its a big place and 10k years ago lots of dangerous animals i imagine everywere.
I have an 18 inch bird humerus complete. If I use the human equation for a 18 inch upper leg bone the bird would be 10 ft tall. Just image the size of the elephant birds brain. It would be twice our size.
We should be asking engineers architects class 4 riggers how these sites were built
And they would obviously say mechanical advantage. If one says they don't know, that could only mean they don't know which particular type of mechanical advantage was employed.
For shure it was a ritual place, but ritual are places were children learn. Scary animals are predators, good to teach respect for them and fear is warming system.
One tribe conquered another tribe and forced them to build it.
Every thing you have pointed out is contemporaneous. Not really filling a gap. It might be similar to comparing Skyscrapers to wooden structures that are ten mile apart but built in the same century. All existing in the same time frame but none inferior to the others just practicality. You haven’t moved the ball. You are still in the same neighborhood. People today are still hunting and gathering. We know that Humans traveled to the new world before this time. Everything with you is communal. Skyscrapers are not communal they are built by rich individuals for selfish purposes not for sharing. You have to pay to have a place in one. The buildings you are talking about were probably built by slaves. Not for worship but for power. You are making the same argument he is making there were large lost civilizations existed even without pottery. The truth is there have probably been permanent villages for hundreds of thousands of years.
If you want contemporaries with hunter gatherers read the literature about people we were captured by Native Americans in the 17th and 18th centuries. This being after they captured horses brought from new world the Spaniards. Did the copper age in the Americas develop independently from Eurasia? We know that the Inca didn’t lay the foundations of Machu Pichu. Not only that there is stone working that can’t be replicated there.
we love dschens
The main problem I am having with this discussion is that the logic of the interpretation is not in line with the chronology. The bottom-line as far as archaeology is concerned is that the large oval structures with relief-bearing T-pillars at G.T. are still, thus far, the type original site of the T-pillar cult. Therefore, you cannot claim that for example the vulture iconography shown on Pillar 43 has an older, wider iconographic context because you haven't proved it yet. This fuzziness in logic surprises me. Just the same, the DAI team performed soundings of small oval structures resting on bedrock at GT2 and have now insinuated (i.e. Lee Claire) that this means the oldest and thus far most original T-oval, and I mean Enclosure D, was born into a settled site without actually having proven this with 14C-dating. And the third instance of this fuzziness is this: You asked Jens Notroff about the mystery of the sudden appearance into a vacuum of the T-piilar cult. He did not answer the question because he cannot. Oval D remains the oldest such site. You cannot yet claim that oval D was born into a context of T-ovals when you don't have older sites where you see ovals with T's. What is missing is the concept of competing models: One model predicts that the cult arose endogenously, the other that it was imported. At this point you cannot rule out one or the other model. You cannot rule out a model simply because you think it's implausible. Plausibility is not a scientific standard. In that respect I take issue with your use of the term pseudo-scientific. You are not demonstrating an understanding of the scientific method of falsification in this interview. The scientific rationales on which the different interpretation rest are not laid out well in this interview. Any upcoming debate must focus on rationales and how to scientifically adjudicate them. This is not apparent in this interview.
The problem with the interpretative method as it represented here is that of clawing back context from younger to older and then using that clawed-back, time-reverse-engineered context to interpret the oldest known part of G.T., i.e. the mortar of Enclosure D's wall and samples from the northwest of that oval, i.e. UGAMS 10795, 10796, and 10799. Even if Claire's team is nt actually doing this, I cannot imagine that the DAI would employ them if they did, the way this is being represented in interviews is not clear.
To sum: You cannot reverse engineer a wider context by going back in time and then make the claim that wider context is original or causative to a local observation as if that local phenomenon is younger than this engineered context. That is actually a feat of pseudo-science. Try getting this past a Ph.D. committee in the sciences.
Beer 🍺
Yes, beer. I'll drink to that.
i cant hear this göbeklitepe bs anymore:the most fascinating thing is that they coordinated 100th off people with different skills.....,that appleys to any big site,and shows only that göbeklitepe is the end off a long way,not the beginning
The impression I get from this video is Graham Hancock has no Idea what gobekli tepi was used for.....and neither do archaeologists
" Graham Hancock has no Idea what gobekli tepi was used for....."
Yes, Graham Hancock has NO idea.
".....and neither do archaeologists"
Come on, archeologists have SOME idea, right?
Reconstruction ..rdbuild...or recreation..JUST LIKE STONEHENGE..?
Alien BS
with the first photograph i love(!) how ppl sterotyping the areas colors :D. dude just wear your casual work wears... here arabs turks and kurds wears different things but none of them are one of yours :D.
The elephant bird did not have teeth so they developed humans with large brains because they ate human brains. They also developed corn because birds like corn.
Have you considered the idea that the animal carvings were actually educational diagrams for children to learn from? Perhaps these structures were protection from predators and the carvings were like a kindergarten to familiarise young people to be accustomed to predators on the outside? Just thought. 😎
A good point has been made that the animals presented are all ones that would have been more visible in the wetter season, suggesting its a bit of a calendar showing when they would go to the uplands like Gobekli Tepe.
Wrong, the stones are bird perches, the elephant bird which was smart enough to go Stone Age. The elephant bird built everything and the incessant Mayans ext found these structures
Were your parents archeologists? That would explain Flint Dibble. It doesn’t really have to do with this video but I think you were very unfair in criticizing Graham Hancock’s Netflix series. Many archeologists apparently lose their scientific objectivity when faced with theories that don’t fit their timeline of history. They say he is a pseudoscientist but he has never claimed to be anything but a journalist. He’s been called a racist but married a woman of color and has supported indigenous peoples rights. He has raised important questions regarding ancient history and the possibility of a lost civilization wiped out at the end of the last ice age. I think the discovery of stone age architecture like Gobekli Tepe and Catalhoyuk should make us all re examine the dominant paradigm. The slanderous ad hominem attacks he has faced are probative that there are many narrow minded mainstream archeologists who are prejudiced, defensive of their clichés and cruel. God help the students they teach. If you claim to be a scientist, which I do, use scientific methods to explore the world, make and test theories and honestly examine the work of others. It allows us to be surprised and challenged by the twists and turns of the past. What is science without an open mind? It’s a religion.
Graham Hancock's burner account
Hancock has no evidence. That is why no one but the easily fooled falls for the likes of Hancock.
🦕🌋🦖👀Thanx Flint! 👽
Yes his farther was a famous archeologist .
He it’s only critiquing Grahams work because it is know obvious that Hancock jumped to innacurate conclusions
E T_ don't all mainstream archeologists scoff at any such suggestion.. yet..
yet, we have learned from a Swissy, who has had over 800 face t face chats with human E Ts since 1942. They tell that all on Earth today are ET, that the ET's records show the Prophet Nokodemius to have lived over 11 BILLION years ago.
, so humankind was Created well before that, in the Sagittarius Region, accordng to them. Also that a Great Time. ie LIFE, of a Universe, is 311.04 trillion years, into which we are app. 70T years.. In any case there are 7 Great Times with equal time rests between each, followed by a rest of the same such period.. then the cycle restarting.
The Swissy's site ism written backwards, mod . ylfyeht.
moc . ylfyrht, look under Bill-y's Cont-acts.
The only "fantastical" part about the pillars, IMO, is the image of the buzzard, or similar bird, that is anthropomorphized and holding the sun, or similar object. Gave me a feeling of religious connotations. Could have been a funerary compound where, perhaps, bodies were fed to wildlife, like they do in some areas today. Could have been some form of skull cult as well, which is why the man pillars have no heads. Of course, I've done absolutely no research, lol just typical pseudo archeology on my part
"Very, very challenging to understand this construction..." IMAGINE building and deconstruction/ changing construction INVOLVED. You cant make something of something NOT KNOWN at this point. You need more time and data. Entrances known to have huge stones that could block entry from the inside securely locking themselves within from hazard and danger from some outside source. Forget Graham Hancock at this point; hard as that may be.
Jens is one beat away from Arnold Schwarznegger's accent xD
Oh no it's not aliens! :)
While I do disagree with Graham Hancock, and stand with your assertions.. I do wish you were excited about archeology. I am sure personally you would say you are, but you come off like you hate people that are excited about archeology. If you had the excitement Graham had the truth would be easier to find. Wish you the best!
I really think they were roofed
😊😊😅😮😮
Am I the only one the sees clearly that there are no entrances to the interior of the enclosures? Clearly this geo-technology. Survivors of the cataclysm still knew the secrets of hatnrssing earth power.
They entered through the roof.
While the people lived on the valley, if attacked by others or a large herd of migrating animals came, they could go there. With the tactical advantage, their chances of survival would be much greater. Before religion, self preservation was early humans #1 goal.