GÖBEKLI TEPE REVEALED: What we know in 2022 | Dr. Lee Clare
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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Dr. Lee Clare is the research co-ordinator and archaeologist in charge of the excavations at Göbekli Tepe. Dr Clare took on the position of research coordinator of the DFG long-term project at Göbekli Tepe in 2015, and in 2019 moved to the DAI’s Istanbul Department where he is now acting consultant for prehistoric archaeology.
The image of Göbekli Tepe in the wider world has become a bit distorted over time as far as we can tell and has not kept up with the most recent discoveries and interpretations. We thought we’d go straight to the source and talk to the man who can give us the very latest on the excavations and current views one of the oldest megalithic site in the world
We truly were thrilled to be able to talk with Lee (from his home in Istanbul) and are very excited at the prospect of one day being able to visit the site and expand our knowledge further.
00:00 - Introduction
01:44 - What brought you into archaeology?
04:26 - Göbekli Tepe as an institution.
08:08 - Excavating a tourist attraction!
10:50 - Göbekli Tepe in its broader context
14:38 - How do settled hunter-gatherers subsist?
18:17 - Some Göbekli Tepe myths dismissed
25:00 - How the buildings at Göbekli Tepe are perceived
29:42 - The T-pillars are not monuments.
34:43 - The T-pillars: arms but no heads and animal imagery
38:44 - Göbekli Tepe ‘back-fill’ re-interpreted.
41:34 - Chronology of Göbekli Tepe rebuilds.
44:24 - Human bones found in the rainwater cisterns.
45:51 - Lithics overload.
47:25 - How much more is there still to be found?
48:59 - Are there other Göbekli Tepes?
52:06 - Göbekli Tepe: where we are now.
53:49 - Goodbyes and acknowledgements.
There is an extended version of this interview with more questions answered available to Patreon supporters here: / gobekli-tepe-dr-62006084
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Wow! This is my first time watching one of your videos and I haven't enjoyed something on UA-cam, or any other media, so much in ages. I was totally absorbed by the subject and the information provided. What I really loved was the conversational and engaging atmosphere you manage to create as I often find this kind of format a bit disjointed - and you also added extra information on the screen where it may be necessary and helpful to viewers without it being intrusive. It was also great to listen to someone on the ground at this fascinating site. Thank you so much - I have already subscribed and am about to find more of your videos to watch. I can't wait!
Thanks Snufkin! Glad you enjoyed it, we certainly enjoyed having Lee as a guest. Hope you enjoy the rest of the channel:)
I think you managed to put into word my thoughts about this channel and what makes it so much more enjoyable than most lectures.
Yea, UA-cam isn't very efficient at recommending good reliable ancient history channels like this one.
R0
me too amazing stuff big thanks and im new subsciber
This was so fascinating! Great interview
Good to see you here, Stefan!
Your chat led me here. Awesome Info! thanks so much from a fellow northern nerd 🙃
When Göbekli Tepe became public knowledge in the late 1990s, I was already pretty cynical about the orthodoxies about social evolution. My reaction was "I'll just sit back and have a few beers as I wait for the domestic sites to be discovered, because they are bloody well there." It took quite a few beers, but I was patient. The art at Göbekli Tepe told me what I needed to know. Growing up in the non-agricultural parts of Canada, I had no difficulty recognizing animal clan symbolism and understanding how the mythologies of hunting people work, and I never assumed that agriculture is a necessary precondition for sedentary life or monumental art.
Thank you so very much gentlemen. I have a great deal of difficulty reading for various medical reasons. I missed out on a post secondary education. Programs such as yours are so exciting for me. I learn so so much . Your channel is so well done, as you are engaging to listen too. No stuffy monologues, or stiff droning voices. I like how you can have a laugh. It’s like I’ve been lucky enough to share a table with highly educated people who don’t mind me sitting in on their conversation. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I can’t afford to become a patron so I truly appreciate the content you show. Keep up the fantastic job 😃
I have no problem reading and was lucky enough to study archaeology at university and I promise you that I enjoy this stuff just as much as you do :)
"It's like I've been lucky enough to share a table with highly educated people who don't mind me sitting in on their conversation" WOW!! The way you articulated it is amazing. It makes me value these talks even more than I already value them, which was already so much haha.
We went to Gobeckli tepe last week it was truly extraordinary. We based our holiday in Turkey around visiting the museums at Şanliurfa ( the archeology museum and the mosaic museum) which were amazing but the main reason we went was to see karahan tepe and Gobeckli tepe . They are reconstructing the road to karahan tepe at the moment so it was a long bumpy ride from the main road through an extraordinary landscape surrounding karahan tepe . There is a small visitor centre there where there are toilets and somewhere you can have tea with a couple of people manning the visitor centre At most. We went up to the site There were a couple of archaeologists working but we were pretty much on our own as far as other visitors were concerned. The Gobeckli tepe site was very well organised with a visitor centre and shop and a shuttle bus up to the main buildings. The archeology museum has a full recreation of two of the main buildings which we saw first . What an amazing holiday it was and so good I'm planning on coming back in a few years especially to Karahan tepe .Great interview thanks . Liked and subscribed
Surely, the fellow on the right is jesting when he states the archaeology on all other world sites is finished.
I’d LOVE to see Karajan Tepe! So lucky!
such lies.
Bullshit
Bravo for allowing your guest to fully explain points without unnecessary interruption.
As I watched your video i let my mind free associate with what was being presented and it occurred to me that the Vultures represented in the T shaped pillars may have been an expression of the value placed in Vultures by hunter and gather societies. Their circling above a dead animal guided hunters and gathers to their next meal! It’s nice to appreciate a accurate guide!
I live in Kahramamanmaraş and have often traveled to Urfa for work, so I've not had time to visit the site. This video now makes me want to take a day trip to visit. The entire southeastern Anatolian region is a treasure trove of pre history waiting to be uncovered. Thank you for this update. I've subscribed.
It would be an amazing adventure. I’d love to see that region, Egypt and Sudan. If ancient Ur has a good museum of Sumerian beginnings and advances in civilization, add that to the wish list.
Be careful wnere you step on your day trip. It seems folks are tripping over archeology in that area these days! Hope you make it there.✌😸
spectacular podcast, I couldn't stop listening no matter how urgently I needed to sleep. thank you!
It's great to see that such an important site is being handled by such a good person!
Klaus dedicated his life to this site, he wouldn’t leave it in the hands of someone who wouldn’t take proper care of it.
Thank you so much to The Prehistory Guys for this wonderful, illuminating interview with Lee Chase. This was truly illuminating: eye opening - a report from the cutting edge of archaeological research in progress! Essential aspects of Goblecki Tepe were sketched - the domestic dwelling evidence, the degree of sedentism, the move away from a temple model, the symbolism, the "long lived" evolving nature of the site (several centuries), its straddle of Pre-pottery Neolithic A and B, of round and oblong housing, etc. etc. At the end the tentative proposal that we might see this great site as the culmination of Hunter Gatherer / Mesolithic culture whilst "neolithisation" slowly evolved around the fertile crescent was astonishing! This is great stuff! Thanks again.
Ooppoppoopoå oo
Excellent interview. So enjoy hearing from those archaeologists that on the ground and working hard to reveal the history around this site!
I clicked on this so fast! Always love to hear your opinion on these very popular ancient history topics 🥰
Amazing content, wonderful discussion. Well structured and simply pleasant to watch. So wonderful to listen to an actual conversation with mutual respect.
Well done and thank you Gents, your interviews are excellent.
thank you, thank you, you prehistoric guys!
Dr Clare is a great explainer as well as an obviously good archeologist (not always a combination we run across).
Thank you for having such professional technology that sounds great with crystal clear connections between the panel.
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
Great interview, and supremely fascinating! I like to imagine the joy on the faces of these ancient people when the "invention of the corner" was presented by a proud craftsperson ! :))
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
Great interview! What an amazing glimpse into the current, up to the minute, findings. Having worked with and succeeded Klaus, he's the very person who would have access to the latest info.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Fantastic! Thank you so much for doing the interview and making the video. Michael and Rupert, your enthusiasm is contagious, and I'm so glad you live in these days where our technology makes what you're dong possible. Thanks also to Dr. Lee Clare for joining you and giving such a full and informative interview.
The Osage Indians traveled hundreds of miles from their villages to hunt buffalo all the way from the Rocky Mountains to the Ozarks, as the buffalo (Bison) moved across their range. In fact, they also were at St. Louis when the Chouteau's and LeClede settled the area and created a trading post and watched as they built a small fort. Mobility is common to humans.
Are you referring to Asians from India or native Americans?
@@Mikivli usa native Americans
Tell about how many animals were used as transport. Tell of riding bugs and birds.
Thank you for this excellent presentation. I so appreciate hearing from the head of the research team.
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
Thank you for this excellent presentation.
I'm impressed, this is such a good video. Just came up on my feed. So glad it did. Great job guys.
I cant wait for the next one, this was inspiring - and first hand information from a real person, thanks "guys" love your work!
it's interesting how they kept burying and rebuilding the same basic structures, not destroying them but carefully burying the old one and building new ones.
I wonder if the structures were tied to lineage by clan or tribe or House and that when a new clan, tribe or House became dominant they had to have a new structure that cast their ancestors/Gods in the dominant role of the central pillars.
that's more of a question than a statement, fascinating topic, thanks for the video
How did people who didn't know how to make pottery 10,000 years ago manage to build stone structures that still exist today?
open-minded questions require open-minded minds to be answered. Regardless of it the answer is aLiEnS or just something normal and random
As per usual they always like to simplify and would never except the fact that we were once a very technologically advanced and sophisticated species with Mathematical and astrological skills. Mainstream Archeologists will call everything conspiracy theories
The Arrata culture was making pottery & erecting structures 34,000 years ago. The Sumerian culture's legends refer the land they came from. A place called...Aratta
They were seriously advanced. Massive comet hits earth and blammo...All signs of advanced civilization are just gone
Think of it this way, people today build huge mega churches or casinos in run-down neighborhoods. If modern civilization was wiped out, future beings will say, "why did they have all these cars backed up wasting fossil fuels when they knew how to fly?" Humans are short-sighted.
Excellent presentation thank you all.
Absolutely fascinating!! Thank you so much for presenting this!!
What I heard about the rebuilding or later construction is the quality of the buildings declined over time. The same drop in technology happened in Mexico and Egypt as I've read. The scientists I respect the most are those who say the more they learn the more mysteries they reveal. Archeology and carbon dating is more of an art than a science that conclusively gives us concrete facts. We can't really know how ancient cultures lived from stone buildings that remain. It's like trying to guess what dinosaurs looked liked only from their bones without flesh or possibly feathers. This is definitely a site I would love to visit and bribe the archeologists with beer to hear their stories.
Awesome stuff! The real story from the head archeologist!
He is a chap I would love to have a pint at the pub with and just listen and learn.
Thanks
Fascinating! I was lucky enough to fulfill a dream last fall and visit Gobekli Tepe in September of 2021. So great to hear such recent info from “the horse’s mouth.”
Fabulous. Loved the interview. Waiting for more
Excellent discussion. We don't know if it is the oldest yet. Among the oldest, absolutely yes. But how will we know or recognize what is the oldest? Thank you.
Thanks much. Strong work & continuity from Klaus (his Ted talk i saw). It's nice to hear & follow the established/developing story. I am also aware of the much publicized alternative sexier story. It would be very helpful to non archeos, to show a timeline /framework of the current academic work/data approach vs. the armchair/grift/ appropriation/reinterpretation of the data Story. Both points of view are fascinating. Claims on causation/ "truth" and which "tribe/class/politik" is to be believed has entered a mad Baylonian phase. As a sedimologist-paleoclimate guy, archeology of the Pleistocene & Holocene is especially interesting, yet for me it remains difficult to sort it out. Problem with specialisation/ bias of expertise, etc. Cheers.
Great interview ! Dr. Clare, all the best!
What a great conversation, thank you for his guys!
What a, wonderful archeological discussion straight from the sediment , through the seine & , placed before us on the table without any idealogical, theological,, or exobiological leanings...." There it is. This is what we saw. This is what we're uncovering today. These are our hopes for tomorrow's progress, and that's where we're at. !"
Completely informative, and refreshingly un-paranormal!
I couldn't wait to subscribe!
Excellent interview. I can’t imagine why more people aren’t watching this channel. I’ve liked,subscribed and commented to help out your algorithms. Surely the world would be a better place if more people watched the Prehistory Guys.😂
Much appreciated!
Sadly ego people think they knoweverything& they've been fed lies all their life.They can't accept what they can't understan, ifd it doesn't fit in their box;-)I'm Christian, so I'm aware of what I can't see. but I'm "beyond& back" 3 times dead in Oper.room, I have seen the afterlife, heaven is beautiful! God is rea!l My Savior sent me back ""Not Your Time"
@@scottwolf2631 😆
Glad to see this out first thing in the morning! Hello from Oregon!
Thanks, Guys. I love the deep diving you do. Great, insightful questions.
Round buildings minimize the amount of material enclosing a space, and are typical of nomadic populations. Rectangular buildings waste material, but allow denser population in an area (by scaling better).
I would expect a correlation between wild grains and animals eating those being abundant in such areas possibly allowing for permanent settlement. Gazelle would point at more open space and grasslands. I always wonder if hunter gatherers wouldn't have just burned down the woods to create open spaces where grasses would grow and lure animals. At some point they'd figure out they can influence what grass grows there. Some animals attracted by the abundance of food would start living in the vicinity helped extra by a smart apex predator who kills the threats to himself, thus weeding out competition. So the basic hypothesis is agriculture started as a bait material for animal traps.
I suspect fruit trees or nut trees were the first attempts at agriculture. If an apple tree bore fruit that can be dried and stored, why not deliberately turn the apple tree into an orchard by planting apple seeds? Seems obvious and very beneficial. And at harvest season every fall, the people would make their migratory rounds to the orchard (following the food), Other migratory stops could include the ideal fishing spot. Imagine River fish swimming away from a line of people slapping the water with sticks to herd them into a weir or net. And of course following the good animal hunting grounds which are also likely seasonal.
I agree. I also think that the term Hunter/Gatherer is all wrong.
It should be Hunter/Trapper/Gatherer.
Traping small mammals is a far more stead source of protein. And you can check your trap line while you hunt. I know this Because I shoot squirrels while checking my trap line as a kid.
@@adennagruetzmacher5622 or gatherer/hunter... as they probably succeeded more at gathering than hunting.
This is the first time I have tuned in to this channel but it will not be the last! Thoroughly enjoyed it and have now subscribed as it definitely satisfied my thirst for knowledge
Much needed return to facts and logic on Gobekli Tepe. Thanks for the latest data.
I visited in 2012. What a site!
Very enjoyable, thanks.
It is for me hard to imagine a semi-nomadic population possessing a class of masons of such for-the-times astounding craftsmanship, except perhaps induced through adverse climatic changes or territorial competition amongst groups that restricted mobility. Or because of extraordinary favorable conditions that ensured large surplus to gurantee their employment. It begs for social stratification in a predominantly hunter-gather albeit semi-sedentary society.
It was quite enlightening to hear about Lee's ideas. The fact that the depictions could represent some collective conceptual worlds of myths, folklore or even poetry of an Homerian bard or a Griot _ a lá Durkheim!
Which implies a linguistic group commemorating a shared golden past at times of perhaps radical changes in life-style.
Very fascinating!
How ancient! They of course had their Gilgamesh, Samson and Hercules! Or a Zeus and a Gandalf!
And of course some dancing and quite probably Beer!
Maybe not beer if these people didn’t have horticulture.
I wonder... . This is certainly an interesting and *academic presentation by well-schooled speakers. But let us at the same time keep our wider perspective intact. When one studies Olden pre-History they find the potential for a contradictory analysis.
~~ Science shows the age: c. 12,500BCE represents the era of such building to be within a very 'terrible' timeframe where (fantastic!) Nature is concerned. Such structures around this planet were constructed just as the end of the most recent Ice-Age/"Younger-Dryas" event was/were holding forth.
~~ These Peoples, (Hunter-Gatherers) of the time would have to first (survive!). They had very needy families to protect. Huge hungry, fast and furious beasts also competed for food in this vast area known as Greater Mesopotamia.
~~ We have to ask if/how/when ordinary Beings of the time would have had the food/clothing--tools, time, or technology [TTT] to build such a monumental and detailed complex. [I am not trying to toss a wrench into the works. And I am well aware that my modest inquiry does indeed as it were *Beg-The-Question(!!!!), of course.] I welcome your concerns and opinions on the above matter.
Much of our knowledge at present will most probably be replaced in the years ahead as archaeological research progresses both geographically and technologically. There however are already evidences in this and adjacent regions of pre-pottery communal settlements with semi-domesticated plants or evidence of experimentation with wild plants and even animals relatively soon after the end of the younger Dryas. Famous example is the settlement in Jericho from still unknown populations proceeding the Halaf and Ubaid period in Mesopotamia.
It is probably not that far fetched to imagine that the process might have begun a few centuries earlier, perhaps even stretching as far back as the Pleistocene right after the last glacial Maximum. In fact perhaps the LGM facilitated the formation of larger groups exceeding a single clan that in turn lead to larger settlements and communal building enterprises with all the secondary social implications that it would require and also generate almost 6 thousand years before the emergence of the city of Uruk. But that of course is merely a speculation on my part. But we can rest assured that we will know more in the years to come.
@@frankwillow-rogersjr.3253 agree. Hunting and gathering doesn't fit with all the social and logistic organisation such a site requires.
By the way, how did they carve the reliefs without metal?
@@frankwillow-rogersjr.3253 hunters and gatherers accounted for large mounds and earthwork sites ar places like Watson Brake and Poverty Point in the U.S. then there are the Lascaux Cave paintings from much earlier. Ethnographic studies indicate that hunting and gathering economies often allowed for as much or more leisure time than contemporary capitalist economies. Many forms of hunting and gathering adaptive strategies. The stereotype of people spending every waking minute scrapping together just enough to survive that day is just that, a stereotype.
Wow, incridible guest. Thank you Dr. Lee
Terrific, deep interview. Far surpasses so much of the other (well meaning) stuff out there on this site. Kudos.
It is likely that sedentism was central to Gobekli, because it stands on a northern ridge overlooking a large arable plain (surrounded by less productive hills). That plain is rather arid today, but during the Holocene fluvial era, when the Sahara was fertile, the plain to the south of Gobekli would have been fertile for arable agriculture. The Gobekli site is perfect for early agriculture, with a productive plain the size of Sussex and Kent combined.
Ralph
Thank you Ralph. That's really helpful.
African Humid Period (AHP) halted by Younger Dryas, and the effect in Arabia is less wetter than North Africa. But I agree maybe those areas around GT more greener and wetter than today.
I love how we discover megalithic archaeology which pre-dates academia’s previous “narrative” by thousands of years, and they say - “This fits perfectly into our theory, nothing to see here!” Troy, Chicxulub, Jericho…learn from your profession’s history for Pete’s sake. 🤦♂️
Keep it real. Who is it doing the dating? Not 'we'. It's academia. Theories evolve as new data comes to light - that's how it works. “This fits perfectly into our theory, nothing to see here!”? Who ever implied that? Give an example.
Zahi Hawass refused to even discuss the sites relevance or exustence such was the threat to his position in defending the dating of the sphinx and such. Protecting one's egotistical position has a lot to answer for in this game.
There are numerous "real" examples of careers abruptly ended and lifelong ridicule suffered. J Harlen Bretz..."All my critics are dead so I have no one to gloat over"
Humility appears more difficult to find but I think that is because it's not searched for.
@@ThePrehistoryGuys Thanks for the reply Guys! The gauntlet of academic arrogance which new theories that challenge the status quo - no matter how well crafted or demonstrated - must survive is what I take issue with. I gave you three examples whose original proponents paid a dear price in contemporaneous derision until they were ultimately proven correct. Then Academia swoops in, pronounces with borrowed authority they have, “Discovered” or “Confirmed” that which everyone already suspected with good reason. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad ya’all are catching up! We’re now waiting for your episode detailing the, “Incontrovertible science” underpinning the YDIH - which, for context, was only a few hundred years removed. 😁
@@simpleiowan3123 That's not how it works. New theories must be able to stand up to criticism. If it can not then it is not correct.
What do you think they are ignoring about the Younger Dryas? It's been studied for quite some time and continues to be studied.
@@ThePrehistoryGuys Have you linked the Eatern Island Statues yet to Gobekli? Someone has on youtube!
this is a great interview, thank you! I hope I will manage to get to see it.
Thanks guys..was trying to go to sleep but man was i intrigued!!! Fantastic show👍👍
Glad I stumbled across you gentlemen. Highly interesting discussion.
Where can one purchase a Gobekli Tepe T-Pillar Replica? (It'll look stunning with my Venus of Willendorf replica.)
Your dedication and hard work over the years is greatly appreciated. Cheers!
There's a recreation in the archeology museum at Şanliurfa of two of the main buildings at GT (full size) and a model size of KT . you could ask them . There might be an online version of the museum shops at the archeology museum at Şanliurfa.
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
I think the pillars represent different clans or tribes, each with their unique founder narrative legends or mythologies. Excellent talk, but I wish there were more images to view while we listen.
You might be right, you might be wrong but lovely to read a sensible comment and sane opinion :)
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
I love your glances of fascination, guys! It’s normal, I watched the video with the same fascination. Many thanks for sharing such a precious information.
Dr Clare's concluding remarks about the historical context of Gobekli Tepe reminded me of the "taming" of Enkidu in the Gilgamesh story. And, Super!! Really appreciate the excellent briefing.
So glad that this guy is moving away from the 'ground zero' idea and the temple narrative. Still lots to learn from this site I feel.
Only a little over 100 years ago there was a semi hunter gatherer lifestyle in Africa. Fairly complex political systems and beliefs shared by slightly different cultures over wide areas. I would imagine a similar world 10 thousand years ago, not primitive at all but with simple technology.
Fascinating. Thank you.
This is high quality. Subscribed.
I wonder if any DNA studies were done on the human bones. Who WERE these people? Are they related to any groups still in the area or groups that were there earlier?
That's what I'd like to know
The 3 baskets of knowledge is in our history.
I have to say this point is important! Given our science communities fascination with DNA testing almost everything why aren't they rushing off a sample? Are they afraid genetics could destroy the pushed narrative of who, what, and when mankind did something? How long did they know the pyramids were not what they claimed and was far older than they admitted. I've lost faith (so to say) in our science community when they would rather lie than tell the truth.
If the pillars are cut in one piece why are efforts made to make them look like they are made from two pieces, one standing and one laying over the first?
And how were they cut?
I truly appreciate the knowledge and observation views expressed in this podcast. It's been a struggle for me to find access to actual current recordings of the dog's.
I'll have to change my play back speed to truly enjoy it.
Fascinating discussion. Loved it!
Listening to your guest explain the “T Bar relief tells a story like little red riding hood” made me think Gobeckli Tepe is not a Temple … it’s a sports arena where people have their animals compete. The TBar relief guy is holding his prize fox that wins the contests. This is not surprising when you consider how many cultures use animals in sports (dog fights, bear fights, bird fights, dog races, horse races, and in Australia I saw a contest between cane toads racing). Even Scorpion versus insect fights can be found on UA-cam. Chinese culture is big on studying animals and how they hunt and adapting into martial arts. I suspect Gobekli Tepe was a sports arena where some kind of contest between prized animals took place. Note, the relief image under the handbags looks like classic Turkish fencing woven from reeds … considering this is pre agricultural times, fences would be used for the enslavement of captured animals (stable food supply). Animals must have been woven into many parts of their culture, not just into their clothes & food.
I can imagine village people sending their best contestants to the arena to vie against animals from other villages. Kind of like the ancient Olympic gatherings or the ancient Mayan sporting event gatherings only different. I bet the arena was also used for other events too.
That seems incredibly mediocre a reason to create the worlds first and yet most incredibly advanced monumental architecture
@@baxtronicxavier the Ancient Greek Olympics were about running jumping and javelin throwing on one level. But it was much more than that on a Social, cultural and political level. I expect the Gobekli Tepe event would likewise include much more substance than rooting for your local village’s entry into the sport event
@@baxtronicxavier No offense but if you don't see a certain amount of logic in what Doug said, you've never seen the Coliseum.
Dr. Clare said that deeper excavation revealed evidence for human habitation at Gobekle Tepe, a new finding, which seemed to imply that the site was thus used for habitation and not exclusively ritual, as was thought previously. But couldn't that earlier evidence for habitation simply be the remains of the inhabitants who built the site originally? Surely to build Gobleke Tepe required a sustained human presence of a large number of people for several years. Once built, they could have moved elsewhere and just let the site be used ritually (if that indeed was its intended purpose.)
As stated, there was seemingly constant repair and remodeling going on so that, to me, implies habitation. Also, I can't think of a situation (I'm not an expert in this field) where humans lived in a place and didn't keep living there until something like climate change or some event caused them to leave an area. If the area becomes arid or the wildlife becomes scarce or even a large earthquake occurs, people may leave.
@@jollyandwaylo not so revealing interview after all, and he couldn´t quite debunk the idea of buried on purpose,,,that waky argument...basicaly still no clue of anything, I think they will just patch the thing with the usual explanatios as far as they can and when not, conspiracy stuff...
@@bobwilson7684 Also no evidence that it wasn't buried on purpose. So a neutral position is required.
@@jollyandwaylo ;)...
@@jollyandwaylo Also their works got worse over time that's very odd.
I loved this interview. This is the first time I've stumbled on your channel. I'm about to go devour all your other content! 😃
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
I can imagine being lowered into the T pillar room with a few flickering candles burning and then listen to stories being told about "heroes". It's bit like having a TV room or their own theatre. That each room has a smaller T pillars based into the walls almost implies that they don't want their "hero" to be left on his/her own or that the story is being told even when they aren't there. It shouts out that they fascinated by story-telling and that we can be separated from an actual event (e.g. hunting or travelling to a new land) and yet still experience the emotion of it.
I think alcohol was the trigger for agriculture.
Hunter Gatherers were much healthier and lived longer than early farmers. You could simply go into the woods and food is everywhere. But to brew beer or create other drugs you need massive amounts of a single plant. Since gathering is a unreliable supply of this plant and the plant usually is found in small amounts, they started growing it themselves.
But you can't just sow and leave, animals will eat it and ruin the patch. Also other tribes can steal it. So you need to guard it by watching over the field. Which means you are no longer (fully) migratory, you still can spend somewhere else between harvest and spring. But if you are stationary for a couple of months, you can only exploit the area for food for so long, so you need to grow food too. It's a much unhealthier diet than the hunter-gatherers, but atleast you have a steady supply of alcohol which likely was a very valuable (social, religious) resource.
The brewing of beer was introduced by people from Anatolia in Europe. And more and more native European tribes started growing it themselves and giving up their hunter-gatherer lives. This way it was also possible to support bigger populations. Whereas tribes had to split before when they became too big, because there simply wasn't enough food.
Even today we see the unfortunate effects and power of alcohol on (former) hunter-gatherer tribes and natives.
This hypothesis is actually supported by recent finds, for example in the BBC article of "'World's oldest brewery' found in cave in Israel, say researchers" (I am not sure i am allowed to link, so look it up yourself.)
"Researchers say they have found the world's oldest brewery, with residue of 13,000-year-old beer, in a prehistoric cave near Haifa in Israel.
The discovery was made while they were studying a burial site for semi-nomadic hunter-gatherers.
Brewing beer was thought to go back 5,000 years, but the latest discovery may turn beer history on its head.
The findings also suggest beer was not necessarily a side product of making bread as previously thought.
The researchers say they cannot tell which came first, and in October's issue of the Journal of Archaeological Science: Reports, they suggest the beer was brewed for ritual feasts to honour the dead."
I am not an expert in brewing beer, but I have read somewhere that making beer is actually easier than making bread.
Also making beer could be really a feature of bigger groups. There is no reason to doubt that alcohol intoxication was known long before 10000 BC:
from different kinds of fruit falling on the ground, or berries. It was only the sheer size of different tribes that demanded more alcohol, and there were not simply enough natural resources to compensate for the demand from wild fruit, honey, or berries.
I am really looking forward to seeing some clear evidence that alcohol was a catalyst for domestication.
If that was true, we should observe similar traits also in the other parts of the world where domestication took place: Mesoamerica, China.
There are a number of instances of hunter-gather type societies using hallucinogens and other psychoactive plants, even today. So there's every reason to assume such practices were common in the pre-agricultural era.
I think I'd like to see more of what went into the interpretation of the site as at least partially domestic. The presence of hearths and burials doesn't seem good enuf to me. I don't necessarily think it has to be a Temple, but it seems to me it could have been some kind of Community Center. A structure we may not have today, but back then might make sense according to their social/economic structure.
Interesting! Like some Native American tribes having a communal building? For me it's hard to imagine something that took so much time, many resources, and much effort without having some kind cultic payoff. 🙂
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
Wonderful interview!
Possibly the ultimate insight. Well done gents
We know from other hunter gatherer cultures - even from the neanderthals before, that they lived in relatively small groups but periodically met with a couple of other groups from sometimes huge areas for a community event.
What if göbekli tepe was such a meeting point and each of the circles represent one clan and maybe also one totem animal they follow or orient on?
exactly what I was thinking too... like the contrade in Italy where often animals are used to identify the "team" and teams often link to family. That would also link with culture and tradition too, that bound their society as it still does in parts of Italy.
We’re the circles exposed enough for that?
Weren’t the pillars put into place, then, immediately filled in?
Which I always ask “Why carve the sides? Why not the top of the pillars?”
Covering up would preserve it.
I don’t know though.
@@chet1921 As I understand it, the pillars held a roof, so these were internal structures. They climbed down through a hole in the roof to get in.
You suggesting hunter gatherers are responsible.
@@chet1921 The circles with the pillars were used for some centuries maybe over 1000 years and then covered and left for no obvious reason. Maybe a cultural change, climate change, environment change. Not sure.
Great show chaps, love them...keep them coming. Knowing that the Younger Dryas period was one of massive climate change and therefore huge stress on megafauna etc, has evidence of cannibalism been investigated or already found perhaps? Maybe Gobekli Tepe was an early death cult settlement?
The megafauna remains show more evidence of catastrophic events followed by a radical climate shift rather than a gradual change. You don't get mammoths with broken hindlegs from a bit colder rain and some wind patterns.
Absolutely awesome guys.
Absolutely fascinating!
It is likely that the Gobekli circles represent the zodiac. They have two large T-Taule megaliths surrounded by 12 standing stones, representing the constellations of the zodiac. And the H-symbol on the megaliths may represent Orion.
You may not know that the zodiac remained a central component of religion in this region, even within Judaism and Christianity. Eight Jewish synagogues have been found with a large zodiac on the floor, including Hamat Teverya, Sepphoris and Huqoq. And there is a Christian zodiac at Bet She-an. The Jewish zodiacs display Helios at the center, while the Christian zodiac displays Jesus and Mary as the Sun and Moon.
The zodiac was also central to Greco-Egypt, with the Dendera zodiac being a good example. And it was also central to Arthurian legend with the 12 knights of the round table being constellations of the round zodiac. It also claims that this round table was a copy of the Last Supper table, which was also a zodiac.
The main problem being the 8,000 year lacuna between Gobekli and Judaea - a gap in our history that will be difficult to bridge. Likewise, the gap between the Gobekli T-Taules and the Minorcan T-Taules is another lacuna that needs explaining - why the similarity. Were some Gobekli zodiac-circles still visible, and able to be copied?
Ralph
"The main problem being the 8,000 year lacuna between Gobekli and Judaea " - you've left off the relationship of the Judahite (elite) captives bringing Babylonian beliefs back with them from captivity, as well as the source of said neo-Babylonian mythologies and practices.
Also, don't make too much of the reality that we humans live on a planet, a planet which revolves around it's star every 365 (and a quarter) days of the planet. One does not have to seek some mysterious (and lost) connection between cultures beyond that.
Xtian esoteric magic interpretation? Please hold my hair.
Almost Every pre-historic Society we know of has a Zodiacal link. but if you think about that, its impossible for any 1 Society to compile that much data. it takes thousands of years to see the entire Zodiac. the oldest civilization we know of only lasted 500-1500 years. so were assuming that Nomadic Hunter Gatherers kept a verbal record of the stars, and Passed that down through the Generations. its simply not Humanly possible. the Mayans for example have a calendar that spans Eons. the Vikings, Australian tribes do as well. India, China. even the tribes in North America did. that knowledge isn't passed by Hunter Gatherers. there is a missing Link we haven't found yet. something that will answer the question, of where did this Knowledge come from. Even in our Modern Society, 1 missed word changes the meaning of a story completely. and ours is Written down.
@AAH Replies based on archeological evidence, I tend to think there was an ancient civilization equal to modern day, or superior. Between 5-15 million years ago. And it was they that build the megalithic sites. To many random things popping up, and time travel isn't an option I'm willing to persue. If aliens did visit, why aren't they still here. I also have a hard time believing that hunter gathers tracked the stars enough to know by them that the summer and winter solstice would happen at exact times. That speaks to more enlightened civilization.
@@jamesatkinson4549 hunter-gatherers, then pastoralists then sedentary-pastoralists then agrarian pastoralists and pure agrarians. Urbanites start around 12000-14000 kY. There are no missing links. Also societies were extremely stable over 100000 years and across various contemporary hominidae. It's only recently that tribal nations fail within 300 years. There is a very good reason for that.
I got the impression of two generic faceless humans facing each other, much taller than the animals. My thought was they were celebrating human supremacy due to the ability to speak. Speech allows us to combine and be above all creatures. Just a layman's thought.
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?
Quite an update!! very interesting, thank you!!
Fantastic show! Kurdistan is the cradle of civilization, here is the oldest know historical site on earth ... ❤💛💚 🇹🇯
No one person should have the final word on these historical artifacts. They're should always be a group of people so different ideas can be brought forward and explored. Everything Lee said is just as a theory as any other but for some reason he can not see that.
No, not all 'theories' are alike. Some are founded on what has actually been discovered and learned and linked to other discoveries that have been made over the many decades. Then we have the 'theories' that fly out of someone's backside and are the most popular on pseudoscience videos on UA-cam and TV. If you noticed, Dr. Clare was using the term 'special buildings' instead of temples to avoid railroading ideas down a single path. Science is always open to change with new information, that is what makes it the most reliable method of gaining knowledge we have discovered so far.
Never heard someone talk so much and not say anything
What did you expect? nobody really knows anything. Their guess is as good as yours. Only difference is their guess is an educated one.
They are protecting the official narrative, that's why science is so boring, we know they are lying.
This was a wonderfully informative interview ❤
This was fantastic 👍
It is nice to hear mythology mentioned, yet I am baffled why more isn't said. The context should be put into perspective, this site is not very long after the sky cleared from the Younger Dryas Impacts Theory which abruptly changed the Pleistocene into the Holocene via space debris from the Taurid Stream and would still be conspicuous when crossing the pre-perihelion. From researching mythology Enclosure D screams of a commemoration monument of the dead whom were killed from the catastrophe. The narrative is very similar to one of the oldest stories known of the battle of chaos over order, Tiamat. There are two central monoliths one with a bovine on its chest representing the Sky Bull and the other stands domineeringly atop of seven dodos representing the Pleiades where the said stream seems to emanate from. The etymology of the word Pleiades means the constellation of Doves, seven avians. It is the Sun that triumphs over the dark chaos when the atmospheric loading clears at the beginning of a new age, thus the loincloth and the dragon (fire fox) in arm that is strikingly similar to the held lion of Gilgamesh. It is showing the beast in the inner solar system circling around every 3.3 years surrounded by the twelve constellations. The stone with the hole in it to the North is for the soles to go to the god stars that never die. Universally in mythology the cultures point directly to the Pleiades as the causation of destruction. I find it strange that many others do not see this.
Damm!
Very interesting!
I think I'll read your comment again..
(Several times)
Creative writing is not good science. It may be fun in the way that fiction is fun, but it is not science nor is it history.
I can tell that instead of admitting that what they found turns everything they previously believed on its head, they're twisting everything to make it fit with what they already believe.
Agree completely.
Great interview, thanks.
Our pleasure!
Love and appreciate you guys
Hunting gatherers?? I do not think so....🤦🏼♀️
These guys are pin heads
Hunter gatherers aren't building a mega complex. They are hunting and gathering. That's a full day right there. All day every day. This narrative gobekli Tepe was hunter gatherers is like living inside a box with no doorway.
Hunter gatherer societies may often spend less time on subsistence activities than farmers you are making a massive unsubstantiated assumption.
@@free_gold4467 the point is, they're called hunter- gatherers. Not hunter- gatherer- monument builders. Do we find other examples of hunter- gatherers building intricate stone monuments with 20 ton blocks? Do farmers build stone monuments? It's all in the job description. I'm not assuming anything FWIW.
@@mblack3450 I thought your point was that they wouldn't have time? Now you're moving the goalposts. Hunter gatherers certainly erected massive 'monumental' wooden posts in the vicinity of Stonehenge.
@@free_gold4467 were you there at Stonehenge? And a wooden post is far different than moving and lifting a 20 ton rock. Give it a shot on your day off. Yah, my point is they wouldn't have time and it isnt necessary for their survival. Anybody claiming the people built who gobekli trpe we're " hunter gatherers" is just making the assumption that you are making. This is 12,000 years ago. Think about it
@@mblack3450 I could address your post line by line but I would just be wasting my time. Have a good day 😀
Great video, thank you!
Nothing like a little Prehistory Guys when it has been 20 below zero F wind chills. Excellent video. Stay safe and healthy Gents.
Someone owes Graham Hancock an apology 😂😂😂
And a statue while we are at it
Disappointing. Dr. Claire says in his conclusions near inute 52 that Gobekli Tepe "is not a smoking gun" of anything. WHAT? I thin the magnificence of Goblekli Tepe at the time when it was build is a "smoking gun" of everything.
But the worst of all is the belief of Dr. Claire that Gobleki Tepe was build by hunter gatherers and is a symbolism for them and reflects the passing from being a hunter gatherer to a farming society. WHAT A SIMPLISTIC AND WRONG thing to say! hunter gatherers aligned those super heavy multi-tons stones, with the stars and constellations while drawing on them with amazing images in a scale so grand that we nobody has yet a clue and the ones who made that were just hunter gatherers? not a smoking gun? In my humble opinion, this video and its content does not advance anything, its empiric and to me, ignorant. does not say anything interesting at all.
It is a smoking bow. Hunting and gathering only describe the food strategies, and the people obviously had other skills such as stoneworking and astronomy as well.
Thanks for this guys
Thank you for a nice hour full of interesting information.
What a load of crap. This has all the excitement of watching an archeologist brush sand off a shard of pottery over the course of 40 years.
Great stuff guys thank you.
Next time around I’m going to be an archeologist. Absolutely fascinating!
This was fantastic! Thanks
I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days and you know God loves us so much,So where are you originally from? I am David originally from Spain Granada but currently in Texas now and you?