Where are the many third-party manufacturers and the huge selection of modules? An open standard by itself is meaningless. There must be many offers on the market from different manufacturers; then modular laptops will make sense.
@@the_cluster CoolerMaster has a Mainboard case, as for the expansion bay modules, there's a lot of community made ones, not a big repertoire but it is growing, considering Framework is very niche.
I'm glad they are getting more exposure. I hope Framework become the Linux of hardware where companies and individuals contribute to the ecosystem so that we can reduce so much e-waste and improve the components.
@@cameronbosch1213 see there’s the difference between markets. One company will create something modular like a desktop pc and charge twice the price for components While others companies will make consoles and laptops all soldered together and will always be cheaper. The market isn’t asking for modular laptops, people want cheap and fast It’s the same reason people buy consoles over desktop gaming pcs, because it cheap and fast Modular anything cost money, money company rather invest into other things This company isn’t doing anything that hasn’t been done before, like google had this one project to make phones modular the same way framework slides the usb and other components in, you know why it failed, cause modular cost more money than it’s worth It’s also the same reason why Intel apple and Qualcomm are working on processors that contain gpu and ram into one the markets moving towards them
@@Sofus-fu4roYou get what you pay for. I love the idea of customizable self built laptops but what you get with Apple silicon is far better and justifies every penny, if you do serious work on it of course. Apple silicon is on another level and having the unified RAM built in is part of its magical performance. But the prices are not user friendly and they can make the storage upgradable. That’s my take on Apple. Unlike jobs, Cook puts share holders before customers. Anyways, I won’t invest a penny in any Windows laptop including this framework. Besides, I don’t like its bulky sharp exterior design and the lack of dark/ black colors.
@@willm5032 Yea, I feel it will go through the same stuff (probably more) like the Framework 13 hinges/top cover issues. I had a Framework 13 but due to subpar battery life and firmware updates, I am on a used Thinkpad instead.
I have the 16 inch model, and it's much more polished than the lemons sent to Sean Hollister of The Verge & Just Josh. In fact, if it had more powerful GPU options and a touch screen option, it would be perfect.
The 16" is a more complicated design since they had to engineer a way to upgrade the GPU. Maybe in the future a 15/16" model with just integrated graphics like on the 13 would be warranted, they call call it a 16 "Lite" or "Slim" or something to differentiate it from the model with upgradable graphics.
Loving my Framework 16, had it for 2 months already and it's awesome. And the modules are completely open, no proprietary software or anything. I love using them for things other than the laptop. Oh, I need a C to A adapter? I can borrow that. Oh, need USB C to Displayport or HDMI? I can borrow that too. The fan can get a bit loud, but it's tolerable, especially with headphones. It's crazy to think that the $200 that Apple charges to add 8GB of memory is the same amount I spent on the 64GB I got for my Framework 16. And the $200 to add another 256GB of storage is more than what I spent on the 2TB secondary drive in it.
Yeah. Framework with the Qualcomm chip is going to be bonkers. Being able to switch out the motherboards/CPUs every few years is gonna make everyone else's builds pretty unappealing.
Framework are the second people to sell over 100w power bricks for USB C, apple being the first. I wish more manufacturers did that instead of chunky bricks with a proprietary slot
The best investment is a slightly USED laptop that was well spec'd. It's still future proof for a number of years. Gets updates. Didn't cost its weight in GOLD! And initial depreciation is like a new car. Same strategy applies to cars. Let the first buyer take the big depreciation hit. They likely have a ton of diposable money. They will get bored. A new model will come out. Then you get something near mint, lots of life left, for a lot less. There are plenty of people who replace their iPhones yearly. 😱 It's just bragging rights. Done't be that person. I'm not saying buy ancient garbage. Just be a Smart Consumer. 👍🏼
This is almost like a macOS vs Windows discussion, I really love what Framework is doing these machines, in fact they're literally fulfilling what the EU is claiming: "The right ro repair", which means that can be at least many components replaceable in the device DIY. But in the other side, there are many customers which have already involved with the Apple ecosystem and how it works seamlessly in between so there are pros and cons for both sides. I truly believe that is depending on what you do and how are you gonna use your laptop for.
The performance difference and fan noise are not specific to Framework, but a reality on any similarly specced Windows laptop. Even my i5 based Acer Aspire sounds like a Jet Fighter when booting Windows, but is nearly silent when running Linux.
I am torn. I love my macs. But love the idea that frameworks uses on upgradable parts. As costs keep going up knowing I can just upgrade a part in 5 plus years to continue using the device.
I bought my Framework Laptop 13 not long after it was introduced in the 3rd batch. Its been amazing to upgrade the speakers, the CPU/RAM (Intel 11th gen to AMD Ryzen) over the course of ownership. I am excited that they are coming out with a full size SD card reader soon. It was a sad exclusion when I got it and it's so cool I can have the same laptop 3-4 years later and fix the port situation to better suit my needs.
Here's the problem. My Acer Predator with an i9 and a 3070 cost me GB£1200, the Framework 16 comparable unit will cost me GB£2300. DOUBLE THE PRICE. I can upgrade RAM and storage on my Acer, screen replacements are easy enough too, almost every part is readily available for my Acer. There is no need for me to spend double and I can always convert my laptop to a desktop by removing the screen assembly.
Your Acer has the benefit of scale of production bringing down the cost, unlike the Framework. Plus while you can upgrade your RAM and storage on your Acer, I bet you can’t upgrade the CPU/GPU.
I mean, an i9 and a 3070 does not even come close to telling the full story about the device. Battery? speakers? screen? keyboard (or even customizability). What about the cooling or the laptop chassis? Would you compare a device with a poopy 67% SRGB 1080p panel to the 100% DCIP3 1600p panel on the framework 16?
It’s great for some people, like folks who customize and upgrade their car, but most people just want a car that is elegant, good-performance, and reliable with no need or desire to customize or upgrade it. 99% of the time (when actually using the laptop), the ability to upgrade it is not relevant. So, great for people who love to tinker as much as being productive. Not as desirable (because thicker, heavier, less battery life, need to assemble, etc.) for people who simply want to have the best user experience while playing or getting stuff done on their laptop.
I really hope they do a Framework PHONE!! That would be such an amazing thing! No throwing away a $1000 phone, just upgrading its components would save the planet and help in a recession.
Framework is perfect because I start with a base config and slowly upgrade to a better specs later. The older main board will then repurpose for a desktop or gaming console eliminating ewaste.
This looks cool and it was fun seeing you so excited, Apple could still so semi-upgradable macbooks they did it with the Unibody MacBooks which are still usable to this day, if Apple then sold the components that would guarantee all the special features worked once installed then they would still make money. That all black MacBook looks so good, if the other laptop came with all black components it would probably look very cohesive too
Can you do a life cycle analysis to determine what is cheeper to own over a ten year period ? As you can sell the used MacBook Pro to recoup some of the cost.
Framework makes laptops that are made for both Windows and Linux, and they are fully compatible with Linux, so for all Linux users, Framework is one of the Linux hardware manufacturers to go.
I like it. Remember 2006 "certified by intel" notebooks where you cam buy different NB chasis and then buy and configure machanics, keyboard, disc, ram, wifi and sometimes mxm graphic... Duno why it ended in few years..
I bought the 11th Gen i7 FW 13 running Linux Mint 21.3. I love it. I have 64gb RAM (overkill) and a 2TB NVME SSD. I'm typing this on a M1 MBA as my FW is in the Philippines. It's definitely an anti Macbook. I'm really liking that 16....
Been using my HP Victus for 2 years now. It doesn’t have the best specs, but the fact it even has a GPU will make it last that much more longer. I can easily upgrade storage and RAM. I will be keeping this laptop until it dies
Great hobbyist experience. I wish Apple would take this onboard in terms of modularity. Before the M1 was released, I envisaged Apple's enclosures allowing multiple 'sticks' (TB/USB-C) which included a cooling path and allowed the whole SoC to be replaced/upgraded whilst retaining the enclosure for years. This could have also allowed graphics/storage expansion/customisation instead of PCIe cards or MPX modules. Oh well.
I love this laptop but my mom won't, my sister won't, my grandparent wont. They just want something that would work w/o worying about upgrades. This will never be the norm, but I hope they are successful enough as a biz so that people like me will have options
I'm really hoping that Framework manages to do a Cherry MX Red switch mechanical laptop keyboard, a black casing option, and an OLED display option soon. I really want to switch from my Alienware laptop to a Framework laptop (especially if they adopt USB 5 fairly quickly, for eGPU support), but I feel like that the keyboard+keypad options are severely lacking and a bit of a downgrade from a full RGB mechanical keyboard on a laptop, membrane switches feel terrible to type on. I like the idea of being able to swap out the components whenever there's a new upgrade, so I end up spending less overtime instead of buying something completely new when the other hardware is fine.
I wish we had a good middleground between this and a macbook. I personally don't really care about moving keyboards, or integrated dongles. Something slim with lots of battery life, that is easy repairable, and more open in nature would be my dream laptop. I think the framework 13 fits this bill better in this regard but its not quite there.
Framework publish all their specs. If you as a manufacturer want to make something that integrates into this platform then go ahead. Also I'd be very surprised if Framework are not working on a Qualcomm motherboard right now.
Despite the heart palpitations experienced by Tim Cook over this video, thanks for the great review. As soon as I figure out a way to run TurboTax on Linux (not online), I plan to switch from MacBook to Framework 13".
I love this, but I'm way too cheap. I saw that a new mainboard alone is $900? I literally "upgraded" from a 2012 MacBook Pro to a 15" 2013 Retina last month. I'm not joking. I spent $140. I'll let my employer pay for something more powerful for work. All my personal laptop needs to be able to do is watch UA-cam and edit an occasional photo.
@@w00master Yep. i7 CPU, 16GB of RAM, and a 512GB SSD. What more could someone possibly need to browse UA-cam and edit a picture in Gimp once in a while? I dual-boot it with Linux, so I don't care that it's not getting security updates from Apple anymore.
They are USB-C ports and also Thunderbolt ports. USB-C is the connector type. Thunderbolt is USB 4 they were proprietary to intel but these aren’t thunderbolt as the laptop is AMD also its USB-C 4 or 3.2 since the name change
I might be sold. I love DIY projects but I really LOVE that company is making something sustainable! Just replace parts not the entire thing. Yes sign me up!!! I love saving money! 😁😁😁
This One went for a maxed out midnight M2 Air when it was released. Would have rathered the Pro, but it was a bit too expensive, and there was something else detracting from getting it, but can't remember what now.
Framework delivers what ThinkPads used to be many years ago and takes it up considerably! I love what they are doing! This would be my choice if I was running Linux as my main OS. For Linux, AMD graphics is a great choice as well since Nvidia drivers can cause many problems with Linux. But who knows, maybe we're going to see different graphics options later? I wonder if we'll eventually even get Snapdragon X Elite boards?
I love framework, they make fantastic sense from a consumer and business point of view. I cannot praise framework enough for bringing the idea of a fully modular and customisable laptop to the market, only trouble is if you need macOS, unless macOS is available on the framework? and apple silicon chips with their power and heat efficiency still beat amd ryzen and radeon chips, as well as being more powerful, and with the software and hardware integration
I bought Framework 16 with 64 gigs of ram, and frankly I couldn't find any cheaper laptops in that price range. Macbook cost like 2 times that amount. Big plus is that it runs Linux, Fedora 40 on it runs just as good as macOS on my old intel MacBook pro 16. Yes, in windows relm it might not be the cheapest option, but if you need a Unix system for work and you need RAM than Framework is much much cheaper.
So tempted by the concept of Framework. Anyone know how good the new Intel Core Ultra actually is? Also thinking the smart move would be to keep using my existing Mac gear and reexamine Framework once it either dies or doesn't accomplish what I need it to do. And has anyone noticed the dearth of used examples to purchase? Annoying right now, but a positive overall.
They basically bring desktop economic sense to laptop. Sell old component then buy new one. Laptop design is good enough and quite stable now, computing power is the main reason I want to buy new one so can upgrade easily is great.
Okay, this looks really good. The upgradability is pretty exciting. I'd probably start with the bare minimum to run it, and and features or upgrade as the need arises. Might choose run it in Mint.
Apple: You want to upgrade your laptop storage and ram instead of buying another laptop that has a tiny bit more storage and ram but is overpriced? Ha!
For the price of the main board you could buy a newly released laptop. This company is making its bread and butter on the fact that laptops are no more upgradable but are rather so expensive…
It is a premium worth paying to support a company that actually allows customers to do anything with their laptop that they want. Pay the price.....everyone should pay the price....
I really want to love it. As someone who went to uni for engineering and couldn't choose a macbook for school since some of the software I needed wasn't supported, I might have went for this one. However aside from that, I am at a point where if I want windows (in my case only for gaming)I would go for a PC and if I wanted a laptop (which I did mostly for traveling) I would go for a macbook air. It's just my opinion tho and I know different people need diferent things.
I like my Macbook Pro, but I don't make as much money as I used to and I can't justify the price of a Macbook anymore. My next laptop will be a Framework. You can add 1TB of storage for less than the price of 256GB of storage on a Mac.
With Apple's upgrade prices and non-upgradeability - even of things that are mass-produced and pretty consumer-friendly to update, like RAM and storage - 100% Framework. If other manufacturers take anything... "USB interface for customizable ports." At the *very* least.
If I just didn't have Apple brain worms where I had to use macOS even at peril of even losing my job, I'd get one. Cheers for highlighting a wonderful product.
11:13 oh yes there is something framework can do about its high TPM. It rhymes with ARM. I think Qualcomm is putting out some nice chips lately that compete with Apple on efficiency and computational power, no? I can hope that in five or ten years, we'll have some powerful ARM board options for Framework. That would be cool, yes? Hey, a boy can dream.
They have now got Intel Core series. This confirms them supporting AMD AI 300 ,Intel Core 200. Maybe snapdragon x elite available on it. It is possible due the new LPCAMM2 standard for Upgrading lppdr5x memory. Since these chios doesn't support sodims.
I would love a laptop like the Framworks one. But unfortunately it is out of my price range. But the general no repair or upgrade with other laptops, is the reason I didn't get one of them instead. Made the mistake once and within a year it was not meeting my needs anymore and it was a midrange laptop. So when all my hand me down laptops started dying one by one. it was cheaper for me to get a new midrange desktop and shunt the old one over to be my work pc. The initial cost was about the same as a high end laptop. Though now any time I get a chance to upgrade my new one, it only costs me once for the upgrade as I then put the old item in the old pc and take out the even older item out of it. In the long run this set up now is saving me a ton and the computer lasts a very long time. And old gaming pc is more than enough to do office work on. My old desktop is from 2017. And works just find no issues. Using Linux Mint on it. So no issues with windows saying it is too old for it. it runs the same uptodate version of Linux Mint as my new pc 🙂 And for everyday use you can't tell the difference.
Apple isn't charging £200 for 16GB of RAM, they're charging that amount for just 8GB extra (hence why 8GB more than 16 is also another £200 on top again). Apple genuinely believes that 8GB of RAM is worth £200 which is ridiculous and absolute theft at this point in time.
A 16in MacBook Linux Windows Framework LapNetDesktop. I want the screen and battery life from the MacBook. Steal some leading edge TMSC silicon from Apple, have AMD make a performance chip, get a chassis made of magnesium/aluminum, make the GPU and CPU module all with a hot swapable battery.
I'm more of a 13 inch laptop enjoyer. Also I'm not really into performance, I have my desktop for that, the first thing I would do is see if it's possible to undervolt those chips and lower their power target. I get that they want the pc to be as responsive as possible, but I don't think I would notice if the pc took 10ms extra to open a web page, but I would definitely notice the annoying fan ramping up.
what you side step is the fact that Apple products maintain the value long after their sale… So if you want to upgrade your MacBook, all you have to do is sell it on eBay or Apple for a refund and you get a to buy upgrade I would argue that my MacBook will have more value four years from now than your Framework
As cool as this idea is, I would much rather buy a really nice MacBook that would last me several years. When I bought my M1 MacBook Pro in 2021, I chose 16 GB RAM and 1 TB storage because I wanted it to last me a long time.
I'd go for the framework simply because it's the purist form of right to repair. It's modularity makes it anyone's potential perfect laptop/desktop/tablet and it's upgradeability means you'll never have an outdated laptop. Whereas with Apple you pay around the same money and within six months your shiny new toy is outdated, unrepairable and unupgradable.
if I want to upgrade my laptop I would jut buy new one, after years it becomes pretty used. I will sell old one just to decrease the difference in the price for upgrading
This seems to me to be the sort of technology that the European Union would highly approve of, for what it's worth. Could you run (a version of) Mac OS on it, like a Hackintosh?
The module is not proprietary! That's the whole point! It's an open standard and anyone can make those adapters....
Luke is so used to living in Apple's world where nearly everything is proprietary that his brain can't computer when things aren't proprietary.
Where are the many third-party manufacturers and the huge selection of modules? An open standard by itself is meaningless. There must be many offers on the market from different manufacturers; then modular laptops will make sense.
Came to the comments immediately to say that, and found you!
@@the_cluster CoolerMaster has a Mainboard case, as for the expansion bay modules, there's a lot of community made ones, not a big repertoire but it is growing, considering Framework is very niche.
Wonder why he hasn't put a correction yet. He's obviously reading comments and replying to them. He really doesn't care if his info is inaccurate?
With CAMM memory module now available for the consumer, I really hope Framework will release the CAMM version of the motherboard.
probably in 2025-26
but it'll be interesting to see if they choose camm2 or lpcamm2
@@itsmilan4069 Probably LPCAMM2 because it has lower power consumption and much smaller form factor.
@@itsmilan4069 Hopefully LPCAMM2
@@sihamhamda47 plus because of that it can have higher clocked lower latency ram modules
and that is how replacable memory should return to macbooks…
I'm glad they are getting more exposure. I hope Framework become the Linux of hardware where companies and individuals contribute to the ecosystem so that we can reduce so much e-waste and improve the components.
If I had money to spare I'd buy one just to support this consumer friendly theme. Assuming it's reliable hardware.
It is. It never failed on me. Granted, I only have the original 16 inch model, but it's been a champ.
If I had the money to buy it, I would just buy a MacBook
@@Sofus-fu4ro I wouldn't buy a MacBook. Not for $1000, not for $2000, not for any price.
@@cameronbosch1213 see there’s the difference between markets.
One company will create something modular like a desktop pc and charge twice the price for components
While others companies will make consoles and laptops all soldered together and will always be cheaper.
The market isn’t asking for modular laptops, people want cheap and fast
It’s the same reason people buy consoles over desktop gaming pcs, because it cheap and fast
Modular anything cost money, money company rather invest into other things
This company isn’t doing anything that hasn’t been done before, like google had this one project to make phones modular the same way framework slides the usb and other components in, you know why it failed, cause modular cost more money than it’s worth
It’s also the same reason why Intel apple and Qualcomm are working on processors that contain gpu and ram into one the markets moving towards them
@@Sofus-fu4roYou get what you pay for.
I love the idea of customizable self built laptops but what you get with Apple silicon is far better and justifies every penny, if you do serious work on it of course. Apple silicon is on another level and having the unified RAM built in is part of its magical performance. But the prices are not user friendly and they can make the storage upgradable. That’s my take on Apple. Unlike jobs, Cook puts share holders before customers. Anyways, I won’t invest a penny in any Windows laptop including this framework. Besides, I don’t like its bulky sharp exterior design and the lack of dark/ black colors.
I kinda feel the 13" model is nicer. The 16" feels lacking in polish..
The 16 is the first generation model,it'll get better. Agree tho
@@willm5032 Yea, I feel it will go through the same stuff (probably more) like the Framework 13 hinges/top cover issues. I had a Framework 13 but due to subpar battery life and firmware updates, I am on a used Thinkpad instead.
@@willm5032yup even the 13 1st gen had issues
I have the 16 inch model, and it's much more polished than the lemons sent to Sean Hollister of The Verge & Just Josh. In fact, if it had more powerful GPU options and a touch screen option, it would be perfect.
The 16" is a more complicated design since they had to engineer a way to upgrade the GPU. Maybe in the future a 15/16" model with just integrated graphics like on the 13 would be warranted, they call call it a 16 "Lite" or "Slim" or something to differentiate it from the model with upgradable graphics.
Loving my Framework 16, had it for 2 months already and it's awesome. And the modules are completely open, no proprietary software or anything. I love using them for things other than the laptop. Oh, I need a C to A adapter? I can borrow that. Oh, need USB C to Displayport or HDMI? I can borrow that too. The fan can get a bit loud, but it's tolerable, especially with headphones. It's crazy to think that the $200 that Apple charges to add 8GB of memory is the same amount I spent on the 64GB I got for my Framework 16. And the $200 to add another 256GB of storage is more than what I spent on the 2TB secondary drive in it.
a framework laptop with a Qualcomm cpu, or upcoming AMD and INTEL arm cpus, that would be nice
All the motherboard modules are swappable. So you don’t need to wait. I’m sure they’ll make a Qualcomm/ARM version eventually.
Yeah, when they jump into the ARM for Windows game, I'll be seriously considering the 13.
if the numbers from Qualcomm are somewhat legit - this will be dope and just a matter of time
They should put 2 cpus in 😈
Yeah. Framework with the Qualcomm chip is going to be bonkers. Being able to switch out the motherboards/CPUs every few years is gonna make everyone else's builds pretty unappealing.
Framework are the second people to sell over 100w power bricks for USB C, apple being the first.
I wish more manufacturers did that instead of chunky bricks with a proprietary slot
Hey man! I would love to see if any of the Mac creators could turn a framework into a hackintosh! Just a thought!
The best investment is a slightly USED laptop that was well spec'd.
It's still future proof for a number of years. Gets updates. Didn't cost its weight in GOLD! And initial depreciation is like a new car.
Same strategy applies to cars. Let the first buyer take the big depreciation hit. They likely have a ton of diposable money. They will get bored. A new model will come out.
Then you get something near mint, lots of life left, for a lot less.
There are plenty of people who replace their iPhones yearly. 😱 It's just bragging rights.
Done't be that person.
I'm not saying buy ancient garbage.
Just be a Smart Consumer. 👍🏼
This is almost like a macOS vs Windows discussion, I really love what Framework is doing these machines, in fact they're literally fulfilling what the EU is claiming: "The right ro repair", which means that can be at least many components replaceable in the device DIY. But in the other side, there are many customers which have already involved with the Apple ecosystem and how it works seamlessly in between so there are pros and cons for both sides. I truly believe that is depending on what you do and how are you gonna use your laptop for.
The performance difference and fan noise are not specific to Framework, but a reality on any similarly specced Windows laptop. Even my i5 based Acer Aspire sounds like a Jet Fighter when booting Windows, but is nearly silent when running Linux.
I am torn. I love my macs. But love the idea that frameworks uses on upgradable parts. As costs keep going up knowing I can just upgrade a part in 5 plus years to continue using the device.
I love my Framework 13 Ryzen laptop. Bought this laptop instead of MacBook.
wanted this months ago. This guy knows what to provide.
I bought my Framework Laptop 13 not long after it was introduced in the 3rd batch. Its been amazing to upgrade the speakers, the CPU/RAM (Intel 11th gen to AMD Ryzen) over the course of ownership. I am excited that they are coming out with a full size SD card reader soon. It was a sad exclusion when I got it and it's so cool I can have the same laptop 3-4 years later and fix the port situation to better suit my needs.
Here's the problem. My Acer Predator with an i9 and a 3070 cost me GB£1200, the Framework 16 comparable unit will cost me GB£2300. DOUBLE THE PRICE. I can upgrade RAM and storage on my Acer, screen replacements are easy enough too, almost every part is readily available for my Acer. There is no need for me to spend double and I can always convert my laptop to a desktop by removing the screen assembly.
Your Acer has the benefit of scale of production bringing down the cost, unlike the Framework.
Plus while you can upgrade your RAM and storage on your Acer, I bet you can’t upgrade the CPU/GPU.
I mean, an i9 and a 3070 does not even come close to telling the full story about the device. Battery? speakers? screen? keyboard (or even customizability). What about the cooling or the laptop chassis? Would you compare a device with a poopy 67% SRGB 1080p panel to the 100% DCIP3 1600p panel on the framework 16?
It’s great for some people, like folks who customize and upgrade their car, but most people just want a car that is elegant, good-performance, and reliable with no need or desire to customize or upgrade it. 99% of the time (when actually using the laptop), the ability to upgrade it is not relevant. So, great for people who love to tinker as much as being productive. Not as desirable (because thicker, heavier, less battery life, need to assemble, etc.) for people who simply want to have the best user experience while playing or getting stuff done on their laptop.
This is the best (true successor) laptop since the Pismo...
This numbering of the insides melted smth in my old hardened soul.
The 13 is the best choice . I don’t think it is expensive laptop at all this thing can last as long as framework in business ..
I really hope they do a Framework PHONE!!
That would be such an amazing thing! No throwing away a $1000 phone, just upgrading its components would save the planet and help in a recession.
Honestly, seems like Apple would WANT to move in this direction for pr and to make more money on "services"
Framework is perfect because I start with a base config and slowly upgrade to a better specs later. The older main board will then repurpose for a desktop or gaming console eliminating ewaste.
Very nice concept. Only thing is that I hear the word "proprietary" a bit too often, hope these interfaces are open source too.
This looks cool and it was fun seeing you so excited, Apple could still so semi-upgradable macbooks they did it with the Unibody MacBooks which are still usable to this day, if Apple then sold the components that would guarantee all the special features worked once installed then they would still make money. That all black MacBook looks so good, if the other laptop came with all black components it would probably look very cohesive too
Can you do a life cycle analysis to determine what is cheeper to own over a ten year period ? As you can sell the used MacBook Pro to recoup some of the cost.
If Framework ever becomes available here, i'm buying one.
expensive crap.
Same.
Framework makes laptops that are made for both Windows and Linux, and they are fully compatible with Linux, so for all Linux users, Framework is one of the Linux hardware manufacturers to go.
I like it. Remember 2006 "certified by intel" notebooks where you cam buy different NB chasis and then buy and configure machanics, keyboard, disc, ram, wifi and sometimes mxm graphic... Duno why it ended in few years..
I bought the 11th Gen i7 FW 13 running Linux Mint 21.3. I love it. I have 64gb RAM (overkill) and a 2TB NVME SSD. I'm typing this on a M1 MBA as my FW is in the Philippines. It's definitely an anti Macbook. I'm really liking that 16....
Framework wipes the floor with Apple closed adaptability.
Been using my HP Victus for 2 years now. It doesn’t have the best specs, but the fact it even has a GPU will make it last that much more longer. I can easily upgrade storage and RAM. I will be keeping this laptop until it dies
Great hobbyist experience. I wish Apple would take this onboard in terms of modularity. Before the M1 was released, I envisaged Apple's enclosures allowing multiple 'sticks' (TB/USB-C) which included a cooling path and allowed the whole SoC to be replaced/upgraded whilst retaining the enclosure for years. This could have also allowed graphics/storage expansion/customisation instead of PCIe cards or MPX modules. Oh well.
I kinda want them to have a retro thinkpad style they would be more modular and would help with cooling that way and not break or scratch easily
I love this laptop but my mom won't, my sister won't, my grandparent wont. They just want something that would work w/o worying about upgrades. This will never be the norm, but I hope they are successful enough as a biz so that people like me will have options
First time can see any Framework laptop run Blender. ¿Can Framework 13 run Blender 4.2?
I'm really hoping that Framework manages to do a Cherry MX Red switch mechanical laptop keyboard, a black casing option, and an OLED display option soon. I really want to switch from my Alienware laptop to a Framework laptop (especially if they adopt USB 5 fairly quickly, for eGPU support), but I feel like that the keyboard+keypad options are severely lacking and a bit of a downgrade from a full RGB mechanical keyboard on a laptop, membrane switches feel terrible to type on.
I like the idea of being able to swap out the components whenever there's a new upgrade, so I end up spending less overtime instead of buying something completely new when the other hardware is fine.
It's a good idea, but if the upgradeable parts are ridiculous prices then it's not really solving anything sadly. Hopefully that'll change.
I wish we had a good middleground between this and a macbook. I personally don't really care about moving keyboards, or integrated dongles. Something slim with lots of battery life, that is easy repairable, and more open in nature would be my dream laptop. I think the framework 13 fits this bill better in this regard but its not quite there.
Framework publish all their specs. If you as a manufacturer want to make something that integrates into this platform then go ahead. Also I'd be very surprised if Framework are not working on a Qualcomm motherboard right now.
Despite the heart palpitations experienced by Tim Cook over this video, thanks for the great review. As soon as I figure out a way to run TurboTax on Linux (not online), I plan to switch from MacBook to Framework 13".
I love this, but I'm way too cheap. I saw that a new mainboard alone is $900? I literally "upgraded" from a 2012 MacBook Pro to a 15" 2013 Retina last month. I'm not joking. I spent $140. I'll let my employer pay for something more powerful for work. All my personal laptop needs to be able to do is watch UA-cam and edit an occasional photo.
2013?
@@w00master Yep. i7 CPU, 16GB of RAM, and a 512GB SSD. What more could someone possibly need to browse UA-cam and edit a picture in Gimp once in a while? I dual-boot it with Linux, so I don't care that it's not getting security updates from Apple anymore.
@@bradleypariah you’re comparing the price of a 2013 laptop vs a brand new one. That’s my point.
@@w00master Oh, you're trying to make a point. I see. I'm not really interested, but thank you anyway.
in that case original 11th gen mainbords are under 300 soooo
Loved it ! Thank you master Luke. Nicolas (you have a friend in Bordeaux, France, now :) )
Those internal USB type-C ports are actually Thunderbolt 4 ports. They don't call them that because of their licensing costs are prohibitive.
They are USB-C ports and also Thunderbolt ports. USB-C is the connector type.
Thunderbolt is USB 4 they were proprietary to intel but these aren’t thunderbolt as the laptop is AMD also its USB-C 4 or 3.2 since the name change
Luke, I would consider purchasing the Framework. I have the M3 MacBook Pro, but for work I need Windows.
This was really interesting. It's not for me, but I enjoyed watching the video.
Linus Sabastian APPROVED!
the framework laptop will last much longer than the macbook pro just due to upgradeablilty
no, not even half the life of a macbook, why are ppl so dumb to not understand this is beyond me.
@@JohnSmith-pn2vl you can't upgrade the macbook and after so many years it becomes unsupported outside of using open core on intel macs
I might be sold. I love DIY projects but I really LOVE that company is making something sustainable! Just replace parts not the entire thing. Yes sign me up!!! I love saving money! 😁😁😁
950 freaking damn dollars for a new motherboard hell i might aswell just buy a macbook air for that price.jezus christ
This One went for a maxed out midnight M2 Air when it was released. Would have rathered the Pro, but it was a bit too expensive, and there was something else detracting from getting it, but can't remember what now.
Framework delivers what ThinkPads used to be many years ago and takes it up considerably! I love what they are doing! This would be my choice if I was running Linux as my main OS. For Linux, AMD graphics is a great choice as well since Nvidia drivers can cause many problems with Linux. But who knows, maybe we're going to see different graphics options later? I wonder if we'll eventually even get Snapdragon X Elite boards?
I love framework, they make fantastic sense from a consumer and business point of view. I cannot praise framework enough for bringing the idea of a fully modular and customisable laptop to the market, only trouble is if you need macOS, unless macOS is available on the framework? and apple silicon chips with their power and heat efficiency still beat amd ryzen and radeon chips, as well as being more powerful, and with the software and hardware integration
Change thermal paste with Grizzzly Carbonout. At least 15 degress lesss and less fan sound
I bought Framework 16 with 64 gigs of ram, and frankly I couldn't find any cheaper laptops in that price range. Macbook cost like 2 times that amount.
Big plus is that it runs Linux, Fedora 40 on it runs just as good as macOS on my old intel MacBook pro 16. Yes, in windows relm it might not be the cheapest option, but if you need a Unix system for work and you need RAM than Framework is much much cheaper.
So tempted by the concept of Framework. Anyone know how good the new Intel Core Ultra actually is? Also thinking the smart move would be to keep using my existing Mac gear and reexamine Framework once it either dies or doesn't accomplish what I need it to do. And has anyone noticed the dearth of used examples to purchase? Annoying right now, but a positive overall.
They basically bring desktop economic sense to laptop. Sell old component then buy new one. Laptop design is good enough and quite stable now, computing power is the main reason I want to buy new one so can upgrade easily is great.
Perhaps there will be a Snapdragon X Elite or Intel Arrow Lake component upgrade..
That doesn't need powerful noisy fan...
tome lol it's a tomb, pronounce toom, love your channel Luke ❤
Okay, this looks really good. The upgradability is pretty exciting. I'd probably start with the bare minimum to run it, and and features or upgrade as the need arises. Might choose run it in Mint.
I'll never buy an Apple laptop again. [Crosses fingers hoping Framework isn't a cult]
Apple: You want to upgrade your laptop storage and ram instead of buying another laptop that has a tiny bit more storage and ram but is overpriced?
Ha!
I wonder if we will ever get an ARM chipset motherboard for a framework so we can have it quiet and get way better battery life.
This is a very interesting physical structure concept, with one basic inherent flaw: Windows OS.
ive mentioned this to apple over the years it figures it is out there but not at apples doorway
For the price of the main board you could buy a newly released laptop. This company is making its bread and butter on the fact that laptops are no more upgradable but are rather so expensive…
I’m using a M2 Mac mini with old dual 27” Thunderbolt displays. I have no need in overpriced studio displays.
It is a premium worth paying to support a company that actually allows customers to do anything with their laptop that they want.
Pay the price.....everyone should pay the price....
I really want to love it. As someone who went to uni for engineering and couldn't choose a macbook for school since some of the software I needed wasn't supported, I might have went for this one. However aside from that, I am at a point where if I want windows (in my case only for gaming)I would go for a PC and if I wanted a laptop (which I did mostly for traveling) I would go for a macbook air. It's just my opinion tho and I know different people need diferent things.
I like my Macbook Pro, but I don't make as much money as I used to and I can't justify the price of a Macbook anymore. My next laptop will be a Framework.
You can add 1TB of storage for less than the price of 256GB of storage on a Mac.
With Apple's upgrade prices and non-upgradeability - even of things that are mass-produced and pretty consumer-friendly to update, like RAM and storage - 100% Framework. If other manufacturers take anything... "USB interface for customizable ports." At the *very* least.
If I just didn't have Apple brain worms where I had to use macOS even at peril of even losing my job, I'd get one. Cheers for highlighting a wonderful product.
I would like to see a comparison with Windows (Gaming) Notebooks.
11:13 oh yes there is something framework can do about its high TPM. It rhymes with ARM. I think Qualcomm is putting out some nice chips lately that compete with Apple on efficiency and computational power, no? I can hope that in five or ten years, we'll have some powerful ARM board options for Framework. That would be cool, yes? Hey, a boy can dream.
They have now got Intel Core series. This confirms them supporting AMD AI 300 ,Intel Core 200. Maybe snapdragon x elite available on it.
It is possible due the new LPCAMM2 standard for Upgrading lppdr5x memory.
Since these chios doesn't support sodims.
I would love a laptop like the Framworks one. But unfortunately it is out of my price range. But the general no repair or upgrade with other laptops, is the reason I didn't get one of them instead. Made the mistake once and within a year it was not meeting my needs anymore and it was a midrange laptop.
So when all my hand me down laptops started dying one by one. it was cheaper for me to get a new midrange desktop and shunt the old one over to be my work pc. The initial cost was about the same as a high end laptop. Though now any time I get a chance to upgrade my new one, it only costs me once for the upgrade as I then put the old item in the old pc and take out the even older item out of it. In the long run this set up now is saving me a ton and the computer lasts a very long time.
And old gaming pc is more than enough to do office work on. My old desktop is from 2017. And works just find no issues. Using Linux Mint on it. So no issues with windows saying it is too old for it. it runs the same uptodate version of Linux Mint as my new pc 🙂 And for everyday use you can't tell the difference.
Lego Laptop. My dream is reality!
Apple isn't charging £200 for 16GB of RAM, they're charging that amount for just 8GB extra (hence why 8GB more than 16 is also another £200 on top again). Apple genuinely believes that 8GB of RAM is worth £200 which is ridiculous and absolute theft at this point in time.
A 16in MacBook Linux Windows Framework LapNetDesktop. I want the screen and battery life from the MacBook. Steal some leading edge TMSC silicon from Apple, have AMD make a performance chip, get a chassis made of magnesium/aluminum, make the GPU and CPU module all with a hot swapable battery.
I will get a framework if they are the same weight as a macbook air and if it uses a Snapdragon X series chip
Pity Apple didn't take a leaf out of Frameworks book
That looks like a lot of fun!
I hope Framework will support Snapdragon X Elite and I buy a Framework laptop when is available.
you can make your own chassis and put the board and everything to make custom pcs.
Correction, they charge 200 dollars for 8 gigabytes of RAM. It's 200 dollars for an extra *eight*.
I'm more of a 13 inch laptop enjoyer.
Also I'm not really into performance, I have my desktop for that, the first thing I would do is see if it's possible to undervolt those chips and lower their power target. I get that they want the pc to be as responsive as possible, but I don't think I would notice if the pc took 10ms extra to open a web page, but I would definitely notice the annoying fan ramping up.
There's a 13" Framework.
what you side step is the fact that Apple products maintain the value long after their sale… So if you want to upgrade your MacBook, all you have to do is sell it on eBay or Apple for a refund and you get a to buy upgrade I would argue that my MacBook will have more value four years from now than your Framework
its so funny how it is similar to macintosh portable in sooo many ways... the last upgradable macbook :D
As cool as this idea is, I would much rather buy a really nice MacBook that would last me several years. When I bought my M1 MacBook Pro in 2021, I chose 16 GB RAM and 1 TB storage because I wanted it to last me a long time.
wait I thought the macbook model in the B roll was the 14". it is the 16" holy shit that framework 16" is a huge boy
I'd go for the framework simply because it's the purist form of right to repair.
It's modularity makes it anyone's potential perfect laptop/desktop/tablet and it's upgradeability means you'll never have an outdated laptop.
Whereas with Apple you pay around the same money and within six months your shiny new toy is outdated, unrepairable and unupgradable.
if I want to upgrade my laptop I would jut buy new one, after years it becomes pretty used. I will sell old one just to decrease the difference in the price for upgrading
Here is a crazy idea Luke. Framework Hakintosh.😅
where is the link to buy one?
Does Framework buy back your old part when you upgrade? Or give you discount?
Anti-MacBook
>Windows
>More expensive
>Jet Engine
>Just a few hours battery
>You have to assemble yourself instead of someone in china
No Thanks 😅
This seems to me to be the sort of technology that the European Union would highly approve of, for what it's worth. Could you run (a version of) Mac OS on it, like a Hackintosh?
More than likely, framework will go under and no upgrades will ever exist.
I bet you could do the reassembly in half the time if you used an electric screwdriver. Framework are you listening?