Agreed, bits need to be dropped...all they tell you is about how many 1s and 0s it can hold, but we need 8 bits for one byte, which is an actual piece of data to form letters for example...we should just stick to bytes. They used bits early on in selling internet speeds to fool consumers into thinking they're faster....bytes make the most sense.
I can see it here, though. What they are cramming into those experimental discs are bits. They get organized into bytes later. (A chicken lays one egg at a time, not a dozen.)
Maybe put the disc in a casing like the mini disc. Losing 700 MB is one thing but losing 1.6 petabits because your disc got scratched up or stained would be a bit hard to swallow.
@@danielreed5199 It really depends on orientation of scratches and what do you exactly mean by 'deep' But yeah, there are bit pattern mechanisms to error-correct for tiny damages
@@danielreed5199but you'd probably have trouble reading the data, we all know how CDs ended up after some bumpy roads. No data was lost, but the scratches confused the player
@@Rue_Madora you people are missing the point. You’d plug this CD thing in and perform a backup 6x a year. The rest of the time it would sit in a small, secure, anti-magnetic case. The problem with privacy today is size of personal data stores has become so big is prohibitively expensive to store in a secure way.
U know I can't save my private pics in phone because when suddenly it got to be repaired these repair shop guys can extract the images and put it on web without u ever knowing because of phone companies removing sd card facility in today's smartphones
At 1.6 petabyte capacity, I really don't think this will be for consumer application (you'd have to have an INSANE amount of media to store, maybe in uncompressed 16K, who knows).
Derp, you realize it's just as easy to tie optical media to a DRM/license server as it is to... any other digital media, no? Ask owners of the Half Life 2 games on CD and DVD how well they work without steam. Ask owners of... any Games for Windows Live games that came on CD/DVD. Ask owners of Tony Hawk 4 how well it plays on Xbox without servers. Ditto: The Crew on optical media, anything using SecuRom, etc. etc. etc.
Recently I realized that listening to a CD is an anonymous activity, and that has a lot of appeal for me. No one needs to know what I'm watching or listening to.
So, basically, it's possible to store 200tb on a CD but very expensive and time consuming to read or write on it. But if the read/write speeds improve, data centers can use this tech.
This is EXACTLY why CDs got put on the back shelf. Doesn't matter how MUCH you can store, the TIME it takes to retrieve the data (and to store it) is, well, I'm guessing you never had a tape backup drive in your 386. It's SLOW.
@IssacFoster Honestly? $50,000 makes it very affordable for data centers. Consider that 1,600TB in HDD's is about the same price. More importantly, that number of HDD's (I'm using 10TB as an example) would consume _significantly_ more power over time, not to mention IT resources. And because data centers require multiple drives to hold the same data (AKA RAID), that cost multiplies significantly. Sure, they will also need multiple of these optical drives, but the cost scale is not the same.
@@TheEDFLegacy that's why I said this can be used in datacenters if the read/speeds improve. Unless you buy a least hundred of these devices that cost 50k and make a huge raid system. I don't know how huge datacenters take deals but spending 5 million dollars for a 200PB facility sounds fine to me.
@@AnthonyRBlacker Exactly this 💯 It is just too bloody slow. Even for data centers that can afford the lasers, what exactly is a data center supposed to do with data that can be retrieved only a few megabytes at a time? This isn't 1994. The speed and bandwidth of this thing would have to increase dramatically to be of any use.
Actually, the assumption that people prefer online only media to cosnume might be wrong. People are starting to realize that you don't really own the digital content, you just get e permision to use it. The feeling of really "owning" something might become more preferable in time as companies start to abuse ther power over the digital market.
Unfortunately, they don't want you to have your own copy that you can access without a subscription. They don't want to sell you a copy on disk, or to even allow downloading to a hard drive, any more. And it's highly unlikely they will ever go back to offering anything on disks, no matter what new disk technology comes along. It's much more profitable for them to keep their subscription based model, and when it's not, then it becomes an ad supported subscription based model.
I buy a physical copy of any content I really care about. They usually come with a digital code so you get a free digital copy anyway if the convenience is important.
Surely this would be shutdown by big tech companies? If they think piracy is an issue, wait until 1 disc can contain the whole of 2025.. games would be an issue. Hopefully this will slow down the greed that companies like Sony, Microsoft etc have with there digital content. I can almost guarantee this is just a pipe dream 😂
Unfortunately, it seems that quite a lot of people nowadays don't even understand the difference between owning a physical copy of a movie/game/album and a subscription to an online platform. The " convenience " pill worked well. They are stuck in renting access to a bunch of libraries and seem to think that it is " progress ".
For a lot of people, it is much, much cheaper as well than trying to own every song like in the 2000's. Plus they do not have to worry about losing it somewhere random. There are downsides obviously but most of that is mitigated by being an average consumer
@@nutzeeerfemtosecond lasers aren’t gonna become household devices any time soon. They don’t scale down well, and require incredibly high purity of their components.
Will it be refined? Yes. Will it be commercially successful? Yet to be determined as you said. I worked on the magneto optic data storage technology for about 15 years. It was robust. It was the leap forward at the beginning of that tech. Other tech came along. M-O drives and discs were expensive. It sold for a while and I think mostly in Japan. It didn't dominate and eventually played out. This video brought back memories of storage media development. Lots of fun and hard work.
Considering I heard about this sort of CD advancement(not exact capacity, much still much greater than regular CD) *several years ago* and it's still gotten nowhere, it's not looking
the cds and dvd nned a bulge at the rim -It has been suggested before but Phillips who "own the format ignores the matter -A small bulge would give the surface clearence from dust on a table but not obviously sandgrains - Or they could redo how the data is stored -to instead of in a long circular line around the disc use it as pieces of a pie-If on pie get scratches then 9/10 are still readable and get rid of the dumb idea of having the startsector in the inner curve from where cracks expand outward- have it 2 places at least
Thats when/why the Cyberpunk genre was so popularized. It was a plausible theory that Japan as a tech-culture could take over the world... However it failed, their business style didnt foster fast enough innovation in the 2000s where life was rapidly changing (smartphones, social media etc) and kept focusing on "respecting the founder's ambition" and productivity (which they couldnt compete with China in). Of course also the economics in Japan collapsed unfortunately.
As someone who have baffled over Ubisoft decision to kill The Crew and erasing it from it's player library, and also as someone who're not having fast internet connection. I think this technology could bring physical games back to the market! 200k GB? That was Insane!
@@fugslayernominee1397easier said than done. If you want to do that “legally” it’s impossible. All these things have some kind of DRM that must be removed first.
I feel a little bit like with everyone being so sick of subscriptions and not owning anything but just renting it, that physical media is going to get a very passionate resurgence, if not just as a niche interest
In Japan, CD and even cassette still prevalent, I even buy Bocchi cassette. Even though sound quality is not FLAC level but damn it feels good to actually own a thing.
@@MutheiM_MarzJapan is both advanced and not advanced in their use of technology. They invent lots of technology but also the people tend to use lots of old school tech.
i still have 1000+ cdr/dvdr disk 😂 they are full of movies and stuff and most of them are not available anywhere else ( not in online platforms not in torrent etc) but most of them are dvdrip so the quality is 360p in terms of youtube standarts 😂 and those movies are from 2000s and didnt get any bluray or online 1080p release.. they are simply unknown or not exist to new z generation.
Physical media doesn't stop a company from making it a subscription or even mean you own it as the eula roofie says since it still contains drm and you can't copy a lot of it without hacking it and can only read it on devices the company approves. Removing subscriptions, renting, drm and not owning anything from all media is the only way to actually own your media weather it's physical or digital otherwise they'll make sure you don't own and only rent and subscribe to physical media to.
There is a sci-fi horror movie called Event Horizon that came out in 1995 about the world in 2040. Everything was great, except they showed CD-disks being used in spaceship as storage device. I was amused, watching that in 2022, but now it seems that the movie actually might have predicted the future and that it was the CDs used in this video. Edit : The movie came out in 1997, as some people pointed out in the replies. I humbly stand corrected.
It came out in 1997 and yeah was a great movie, but yes the fact these discs can hold that size is great, the only downfall maybe if the dont protect the disc.
We need ownership of our products. If they can scale this technology for commercial use in just the gaming, music, and multimedia industries , I think a significant portion of the population would welcome the return of the CD with open arms.
they updated the story since the vide, and were able to get write speeds faster than HDDs, seeing how videos and music disappears from streaming platforms all the time, ownership of your own media is more important than ever
You own your PC and smartphone and the storage medium. You own the CD. You never own the music itself, only the medium its stored own. When you buy a CD, you pay for the lincense, not for the ownership of the music.
@@Saroku1000While technically true, the record labels and movie companies can’t revoke said license of said media. While software updates on playback hardware might try to block it from playing (if you let said hardware update itself, that is), there are multiple ways to circumvent that (taking advantage of the “analog loophole” before the updated firmware tries to block playback being just one of them, component video can only go up to 1080p, so that’s a limitation). And that’s only applicable for Blu-ray discs. CDs and DVDs have no such advanced DRM available. CDs aren’t encrypted at all and the rudimentary encryption on DVDs has been cracked for decades. That’s to say nothing about Vinyl, Audio Cassettes, and 90+% of VHS (a lot of Commercial VHS tapes have an arcane form of copy protection that in some rare cases is extremely difficult to defeat when attempting to transfer it to a digital recording). The same cannot be said about streaming libraries where said companies remove access at the click of a button with absolutely no recourse available to you. It simply goes poof from your streaming library. So for all practical purposes, yes, you do own your copy of the content on most physical media. It’s why the major industry associations want physical media to go away sooner rather than later, and we’re blindly helping them achieve that.
Fun fact: The bit depth and sample rate of CD, which is still used on a lot of modern formats and streaming today, was set by the capability of an ancient video cassette format called U-matic. In the early days, there was no practical way to store or transport the amount of data a CD held. So Sony developed a range of PCM encoders, the most popular of which were the PCM1610 and improved PCM1630. These stunningly expensive devices were paired up with suitably expensive special U-matic video recorders, so that the contents of a CD could be written out to video tape for delivery. The data rate pushed the very limits of what could be stored on video tape, and to be honest the format was fragile even when new. Now there are hardly any working sets of PCM1630 encoders with their matching DRM4000 U-matic decks left. I have two of these kits which I use to recover PCM audio tapes which recording studios find in their archives. Also I've added even more rare equipment to them so that the data can be extracted via a pure digital route, which is complicated by the PCM equipment using an obsolete digital audio connection method. I love this sort of junk.
Remember no streaming service in the world is comparable to cd streaming is far inferior to the point that most people will choose cd for MUCH better noticeable sound quality over any steaming service even tidal isnt as good
@@DaRush-The_Soviet_Gamer you can use a pcm adapter and a supported player to encode digital CD audio onto a VHS tape I'm pretty sure it's what they used to store digital audio in very early days due to its effectiveness and low cost
@@Jaden-eh6rh Yeah I remember Techmoan talking about those PCM AUDIO VHS decks for audiophiles in the 80s before DAT came along and made an alternative for PCM AUDIO VHS with very similar spinning head technology, but on a much smaller tape.
The best format optical discs could return in would be MiniDiscs, in which the optical disc is encased in a plastic cartridge casing, protecting it from environmental exposure. It is more complicated to produce but is far more enduring and also smaller. Small enough to be used with portable music devices and making it better for use on the go
Then you'd have the same problem I face with UMDs... that is, the casing eventually wears down, and needs to be replaced. And if you don't know what a UMD is, it's basically a MiniDisc on steroids. It can store up to 1.8GB instead of 700MB, the only downsides? You can only use them on a PSP, and RWs for them NEVER existed.
@@aiodensghost8645 Replacing a plastic case is less annoying than replacing the disk, and disks do wear out and get damaged over time, as we all would know. The magic solution would be a disc that is the best of both worlds, having the durability of a caddy with the resilience of a disk like a CD or a DVD that can be safely handled without one. Of course, you usually get one or the other... the manufacturer doesn't want the extra expense of a caddy if the disk is durable enough to survive being moved around without.
I cancelled my Spotify subscription and was surprised to find that my lounge room cabinet full of CDs didn't disappear overnight. Don't tell Spotify, but it looks like I've found a loophole in their business model which allows me to actually own the music and play it forever!
And all it took was for you to abandon your CDs for Spotify in the first place. Let's see how long it takes for you to cancel Netflix and switch to Blurays
Yup and I remember having stacks of CDs and importing them to Windows Media Player one by one. Blown away to have my music collection digitized, organized, and clickable.
I remember hearing my first mp3 before that we had some computer files like MIDI and MOD files and WAV files that were very large because uncompressed audio took up a lot of hard drive space. I listened to the mp3 of Turning Japanese and thought that it would change the world.
This new storage medium isn't practical yet, but there was a time when the CD wasn't either. I will patiently wait and be glad there is still work being done in this space.
Imagine 2 hours movies coded into pure 12 bits RGB or 12 bit 4:4:4 YCbCr with no compression ! That would be very awesome ! Edit : Or complets series ? 😲
What's odd is I remember reading stories about "3D" & "holographic" discs at least 7-10 years ago. At the time they were talking about being able to store 1TB on a single disc. I think even if they could have brought that to market it may have stopped the flood to cloud media/storage. I honestly don't know why microSD/flash media didn't simply take the place of optical media given how quickly it expanded. Actually, yeah, I do. It's all about money. You can't make subscription money from physical media. Physical media/storage will ALWAYS be needed. I'm buying as much physical media (i.e. movies, tv shows, etc) as I possibly can so I can actually get rid of a lot if not all subscription services.
Actually, SD and microSD cards were intended to be the next physical replacement of CDs. They even have DRM and other controls built into the standard that is pretty much unused in most circumstances. The problem is they faced the same unforeseen threat that CDs did: The rise of fire sharing (remember napster?) followed by streaming.
I want (to be able to buy) the entirety of a television series in full HD on one disc. Talk about the best of both worlds, convenient to binge without having to get up and change discs constantly, AND you actually get to own it Edited for the occasional comment missing the point
• 10 seasons & all movies of Stargate, is about 70 GB, in 1080p with AV1 compression. • x265 compression with AAC audio, can retain ≥4K content at a comparable file size (~25% of x264). • One 100 GB m-data archival disc, costs about $11. • *Done.*
@@prophetzarquon1922 man thinks that bluray cant handle full season in reg HD on 1 disc is because of the tech lol and not because Corpos are greed hungry
@@prophetzarquon1922 UA-cam appears to have deleted my comment just asking where you can get 100GB M-discs for $11. They really do censor comments for no reason.
It's great to see optical storage make a comeback. I worked on the first WORM optical drive at Optical Peripheral Labs in the early 80's with a team of about 100+ people. We developed the first commercial WORM drive that was released in 1984. I designed the error correction portion of the system for this drive. We had a bunch of NV Philips engineers and scientists working with us. They developed the media in Eindhoven and we developed the drive in Colorado Springs. I moved on to develop some of the original solid state and Flash disk emulators in the mid/late 80s for PCs and industrial applications. What a ride it has been!
@@prophetzarquon1922 That was the technology that was used for the original WORM optical disks. The media had many defects in the day (early 1980s), hence a very powerful 10byte/5 way interleaved reed solomon ECC to compensate for the early versions of the media.
what did you major in college? im smart 148 iq but i dont know what to choose and im autistic. i want to go to Physics because it's easy for me and i love it but my mom said it's not practical and useless and that I should get into engineering so i can make alot of money
@@keithfritze6538 I specifically wanted your thoughts on Micro soft's Project Silica, for write-once enterprise storage on rectangular quartz glass plates, using the size of a mark & its orientation, to store data at each XYZ position; my expectation is that the prime costs right now would be the (¿quoted as $10K-$500K?) burners, & secondly the planned automation to rack & swap the plates for reading, with the plates themselves being relatively cheap? I think they were getting ~7TB per plate...
@@___Anakin.Skywalker I was an electrical engineer by training. You should follow your dreams and do what you enjoy and motivated to learn. And never stop learning. There is always something new to learn and to discover!
@@nothcialhold your fire dude. why gotta rope in people you dont even know. and you dont even make sense pubg came out after 2016 or something like that.
SHOULD this ever hit the market, they better put it into a protective encasing, like DVD-RAM, ZIP Drive discs and of course the amazing MiniDisc and Hi MD. Because the biggest caveat of optical discs has always been the exposed read-side and the fact that most consumers treat their stuff like crap and always scratch up their discs by not handling them properly. A protective caddy would not only make it so much safer and story, it would also basically make it easier to add Labels on them, especially for recordable mediums. And differently colored plastic caddies would also add quite a nice color-options for when you need to make discs instantly recognizable as Audio Medium, Video Medium, Data Medium or archival medium.
My father was a sound engineer for a famous musician in the 70's-80's. While touring Japan, he bought a Sony CDP-101 (which I now have) and as many CDs as he could get his hands on because the digital crispness of the audio was without comparison at the time.
Magnetic storage has just hit a wall for getting any cheaper, there are fixed costs involved, not collusion. As for flash storage, there WAS some serious collusion a few years back, but it's not so bad now, SSD's have gotten to pretty reasonable prices, but the manufacturers are trying not to make TOO much and oversaturate the market.
@@PAPO1990Did those fixed costs seem to happen around the time the flooding happened like 15 years ago? Because the prices per GB has remained pretty steady since then. It reeks of price fixing, because that was LONG before all of this helium and hamr stuff. And flash manufacturers for sure are price fixing. They promised back then how SSDs would be bigger than hard drives by now, much cheaper,and much more reliable (SLC). Now that 3D XPoint has been lost, they really have no reason to be competitive in pricing. We need a replacement for NAND. It's hot garbage.
I used to sell electronics years ago. I actually sold the Sony CDP-101 and remember it well. It was amazing as we had nothing remotely close to that technology at the time. It was in the early '80s. Sony then came out with the first portable CD player. A friend of mine bought one. They sold for $399.99 ... It was the first portable CD player our store sold. A completely different story: When I first started in the electronics field, I was about 19 years old. I worked with a man over twice my age and with lots of knowledge. His name was Monty, and he told me in the future we would have large thick phone book like directories that we would be able to dial up a song from and it would "stream" to us. This was predicted in about 1979 by Monty. He predicted what we now know of as streaming music! Please keep in mind, this was before the first home PC was released and many years before the Internet! There was no downloading, no streaming, no Internet, no cell phones, just records and turntables. No cassettes yet...just reel to reel tape machines. I always remembered Monty because that was some thinking I'd never heard of before nor did anyone I knew ever imagine anything like that. Pretty co0ol!
Hate to burst ya bubble but hes basically talking about a telephone service. Not streaming. Like a directory? He is saying yellowpages for songs Like the idea is sort of there. But technology didn't evolve via a telephone service at all. So it's not really a prediction or at all streaming. He basically replaced xxx hotlines in the backpage. With songs. Great idea seeings things didn't exist like PCs and the net. But it's not streaming
I can actually imagine if those things didn't get invented. This taking off. So im not hating. I can literally imagine people calling up to hear a song they wanted on their house phone ect. If anything those things being invented prevented his idea actually being an actual thing. So I kind of like his idea better. It has less downsides than nearly all of those inventions
@@drunkpaulocosta May not have been an exact hit, but close enough. Though the service we have is much more elegant, convenient and of higher audio quality than the original prediction.
@@drunkpaulocosta it's streaming when no one even dreamed of an Internet way back then! Lol Nor home computers! Lol Close enough... Streaming through what was available at that time...a phone line! Hahaa! 🤣
I so want this technology to be available for the public. Imagine saving all your sensitive data on a disk that you can keep safe for 50 years. I recently lost my 20 years pictures after an old drive died (the back up drive died too) and I don't think I will recover from it.
I think it’d be really cool if this technology could be harnessed to bring physical media back to video game consoles and help us preserve media. Maybe instead of using 100 layers, they could produce ones with fewer levels that could be more commercially viable.
That is pretty much what Bluray is doing. 128GB is enough for most games. You could do UV-ray to get more storage. I have worked at a Bluray production company and it gets really expensive with multiple layers, because you need to manufacture a stamper for every layer. The 100 layer disks talked about here are for special use not mass manufacturing consumer media. There is a big difference between pressed disks and writable disks this video failed to mention.
It seems like the laser required for these discs is the main bottleneck in making it commercially available. Not sure how much the discs would cost on their own based on the materials used, but 50,000$ for a laser to read/write seems to be the main thing holding this tech back from it being publicly available to everyone. It will probably make it's appearance in datacenters and such first, but I assume it's gonna be a while until this technology is economically viable for the average population. Still, pretty cool stuff.
@@lordgrindleton6595people seem pretty interested in getting back to physical media since the story been around about these new CDs. I bet someone cracks it
@@JustJayGaming 128GB is nothing for games. Imagine 1000GB available for future PS6/ Next Xbox games. The detail and size of the worlds, environments, characters, AI and so much more would be incredible.
I first ran into CD's in 1985. A guy I worked with had one and I was amazed. It turned out that one store in town carried them. I eventually bought one a few years later.
Are...are you me? 🤔 This is pretty much my exact foray into CDs. A friend introduced me to CDs in 1985 and I was shocked listening to Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel songs in such clarity. The technology felt absolutely transformative and that introduction started my trek into collecting those shiny, reflective (easily damaged) wonders.
1985 for me too. I started to buy CD's before I even had the player. I thought that because they were pretty expensive that, if I started my music collection first, when I could get them at a good price, I wouldn't be having a fork out a ton of cash on music at the same time that I bought the player. I still have most of those CD's.
Another great feature: If you're willing to cut capacity in half (still a massive capacity) you could have essentially *indestructible* data storage. Error correcting codes could make use of the remaining bits so effectively, that you could put that disc through hell and grind it up significantly and not lose *any* data. The redundancy and ECC would be enough. Furthermore, this could all be done in a software layer without any hardware modification!
Have the option on writing so that you can write ONE copy at full capacity, TWO copies at half - right through to (for example) 4 -8 copies stored in physically different parts of the disk so even if someone shot a hole through it, you still have ALL data full intact. ULTRA stable data and still a 25TB to 50TB of storage. If this was "cold storage", then the old CD changers which allow you to load a carousel with perhaps 4 - 16 newCDs and you are back to staggering values again.
@@Azarilh Just to emphasise how slow - it'd take about 5 years to write one disc. If you've ever owned a DVD burner, you'll know you're not getting through an hour of burning without throwing at least one disk in the shredder.
yeah true but physical media has faults, mainly scratching. I just store stuff on the device to solve all my issues because right now it offers the best ratio of control, space and difficulty to break
That’s pretty one-sided. I recognize the obvious drawbacks of digital media, most noteworthy of which is, like, not actually owning the thing. At the same time though, for whatever they’re charging me now for Apple Music )12 bucks a month) I get basically most of recorded popular music at my fingertips. Considering how much music I listen to in a given month, I would be broke if I had to pay the equivalent amount for actual CDs, it is an excellent value proposition
@@pensivepenguin3000 I do see the convenience side of it and I too consume my music digitally, but the option for physical should not go anywhere because I like to actually own my stuff.
Think about it. A damn disk with 200TB of data that read it at mb/s speed? What next? Linking up 4000 cars with chains then claim about making the largest land transportation ever to rival the high speed train?
This will allow uncompressed movies. the files in movie theaters are 200gb per movie, even that is compressed in some way. Imagine uncompressed movies, the quality would be mind breaking for movie enthusiasts.
Some compression would benefit the other hardware in the media chain. Lossless compression is possible and would make reading from the media and transferring the data feasible on normal hardware.
@@pauldeddens5349yep, I find it funny that even higher resolution TV's are coming out, yet we still have heavily compressed media to play on them, what's the point...
The LTO consortium is probably the main reason tape storage is so rare in the consumer space. Producers in the consortium can't even agree on standards, and are pretty hostile towards each other.
Tape is also very inconvenient. A spinning disc is already limited in speed and access but tape takes it so much further. Regarding the hostilities, funnily enough it was the same for flash storage, if you remember the history of memory stick, compact flash, etc. Nowadays we only think of SD cards but they too had a hard time establishing themselves.
for 40-50TB of HDD space you get 600TB of tape storage(compressed) for the same price, it makes sense to use them for backups for large companies, and they can afford to store them properly
Plenty of people still use physical storage for backup. Also you said kW of power per PB of storage. What does that mean. kW is a measure of power. How much ENERGY does it take to write a PB of data? Especially compared to current energy usage to write that in other media.
yeah the fact that he calls the new technology a CD is really kindof irritating, because it's not gonna be a CD but something of its own in the same way a DVD or bluray isn't a CD
The reason for Dire Straights success with their CD of Brothers in Arms was because Money for Nothing was on that album. Money for Nothing is still one of, if not the bands biggest hit. The music video was famous in 1985 (the year the album dropped) for its CGI (blocking though its seen as more stylized, even though that was some of better CGI of the era) characters that made it stand out on MTV.
I want my... i want my... i want my MTV. Yeah this was the first CD of Dire Straits i ever held in my hands when my dad got it for his CD collection in the early 90s. The cover artwork is pretty iconic too.
That was the same year prerecorded cassette tape shells, and boxes went transparent clear, including the tape leader. This was to directly stay in style with the compact disc, which was also made by Philips.
For me, that song has dated. The only song that stands the test of time to my ears is 'So Far Away'. Love that one. And I never want to hear 'Walk Of Life' ever again. The music video made that song, but the song itself is mid.
That's similar to what I was thinking. The insides of a reader and writer have to be like a clean room too. Wonder how it would error correct for a dust molecule or good surface scratch. Can the laser be angled differently to recover since the data is in the layer not on the surface. How close to the surface is the data layer? Can it be read and confirmed from above and below so that a scratch on one side doesn't affect reading from the other. Would have to scratch both sides to block reads. Interesting new problems and solutions.
@@channel_alanif they fragment the videos so that a scratch would only destroy a small piece of a movie on pretty much every movie then it would be almost not noticable
@@Vinlaell While that's true, if you're playing directly from the disc you're going to need to buffer more to account for the last having to reposition on the (assumed) spinning disc for the next chunk of data, and storage has to be either for format aware or the sectors algorithmically allocated around the 3D space. Including the CRC data. Not impossible. Probably wise and better suited to archival backups. It'll really slow the wire speeds though because you'll have to wait for the next write space for a chunk, or organise the data before a write, waiting for the original storage medium to move to that chunk of data to read. There's a big cost to that distributed write standard.
Agreed with using a caddy case for protection of so much data. Could hold all media, stem data, history, books and whatever for games Ai and such, in a shoe box.
TBH if this will be affordable, there's a huge market for it in India as majority of the people still use hard drives and not cloud storage to back up there data
@@stephentombs1851 when most people talk about cloud storage they mean the servers owned by outside entities. I have been wanting to set up my own too, though.
Something like this disc technology actually got designed many years ago in Australia. They called it a 5D (5 dimensional) disc. Then it just vanished nothing happened. It was said that a company bought it and shelved the patent.
UK had the same thing in 2013. Used smaller discs, with double the capacity, and was dubbed "eternal storage" because it can withstand 190 degrees C for the lifetime of the universe. Presumably they had the same issue of it taking about a decade to write one disc!
@@AzarilhNestle, Coca Cola or other big companies have been doing this, buy revolutionary items or things from small company then shelve it competition is dissolve.
I am just now listening to my first CD I bought. It was late 1984, I was 13 years old, and it is a record of Richard Wagner's "Der Ring des Nibelungen", recorded 1983, conducted by Sir Georg Solti. Still works perfect as 40 years ago.
Longevity: Just because it's a compact disc is not enough to call it reliable. The data retention medium sounds different, so this will take additional research. Adoption: Tape backup is not a consumer oriented product, and I doubt this would be either. Yes people are used to cloud and streaming, but that's a red herring. It's irrelevant. Those cloud storage and streaming services _would_ use it, and they're in a position to exploit it to its full potential. This could also drive down costs of archival in areas where the timelines to keep data are extreme. Having a small magazine of discs, duplicated across several sites around the world in small containers, is well worth the price of entry. If they prove durable, the cost savings from not needing to keep storage areas' atmospheres as tightly controlled could be massive.
m-disc is more hardy than tape, if you really want your data too last a century m-disk is the way too go also if your basement floods normal HDDs and tape will die, while m-disks will survive
I never really gave up on CD because there is nothing better to save information cheaply and permanently.I have 20 year old Data-CDs and not to report a single data loss...not even a modern hard drive can do that. I love this technology.
Let me guess. VERBATIM brand blanks? Most cheapos tend to get those stupid GREEN ROT/RUSt rings on them after a couple of years in a moist UK environment. Verbatim on the other hand, never.
i backed up everything i have on 25gb blu-ray discs few years ago and data is still solid, also if your entire room floods, m-disk bluray is the most secure storage media, the water would kill tape and harddrives
The funny thing is that CD’s like this are actually necessary because video games are getting very large. Even though it’s unlikely we will need petabyte disks, it would still be useful to have large disks. The issue is that most developers don’t put the final game on the disk and often force you to download the game. If we lived in a world where they did put the final game on the disk, we would probably find it more convenient to have the physical copy of a game vs the digital.
if they wanna release all the games on one disc, its perfect, pluss rest of the surface area can be used for redundancy, so they become scratch resistant.
they easily fit on a BD-XL. Otherwise, you can just download them. With a 10Gbit/s internet connection, it's faster than reading locally from an optical disk.
The earlier game systems had games on several CD's, then tech got better and then plateaued again with multiple CD's. With so much space available who knows what could be possible in the future.
the biggest limitation is our own contextualization. "Streaming replaced CD's so obviously CDs would replace streaming if it came back right?" that's the completely wrong way of going about it. If we can use these CDs in place of HDDs and SSDs the $per TB of storage would fall drastically even with the limitations many people would be able to use CDs to run their own NAS Systems without braking the bank.
Literally 2 days ago, I was lamenting the fact that we don't have a good long-term storage solution for our data anymore because CDs and BluRays can't hold enough data. And now this video popped into my feed!
@@muhammedraashid3667 because harddrives data integrity degrades after 7-8 years, and it would be expensive to get about 30 Terabytes worth of harddrives. CDs are cheap and last a little longer than harddrives, and they're optical storage instead of magnetic.
i love blu-rays because they have the longest data retention, 100+ years on mdisc, also love that its a "dead" media so i often find good deals on it but if we got 500gb+ blu-ray discs i would be more than happy
according to a random person on Reddit who i trust with my life all songs in the world would be able to fit in 120 petabytes. so you would need about 75 discs to store all music. that said the calculation was based on there being 79 million songs in the world and i have googled some more and found higher numbers between 90 and 230 million songs. so lets just make it 300 million so that you can last a while and you would need 285 discs. that is a lot but totally manageable! imagine having one drawer in your room with just all the music! a second drawer for all the games :p its insane how much that is!
@@ivok9846 Well considering my dads music collection is over a year of continuous play and no repeats it's believable that you can fit all music onto one of these disks if it really has 200,000 GB...
The decline of CD sales in the early 2000s was due to another factor besides MP3s. Their sales were inflated by the fact that millions of people were replacing collections of vinyl and tape with CDs. These collections were often large and could cover decades of music recordings. By 2000, most people had replaced the old media and sales sunk when they were mainly new titles.
I don't agree with this at all. I knew people back then with thousands of vinyls and cassettes. None - NONE - of them ran out to spend thousands of their hard earned dollars on "replacing collections of vinyl and tape with CDs". It's not complicated - the iPod, Toshiba's groundbreaking and cheap 1.8" hard-drives and mass adoption of the internet put the nail in the coffin of CDs.
@@fab555trainspottingandmore The quality of MP3 depends on bitrate and how good the encoder is. In the beginning of the MP3 era bitrate was very limited, because internet connections were not widespread, and bandwidth was orders of magnitude smaller than today. Hard drive sizes were also orders of magnitude smaller. Data CDs helped a little bit, but not much. And MP3 encoders were pretty primitive. Those two factors caused the creation of a lot of poor sounding MP3-files. But today situation is different, MP3 encoders reached the peak of their quality decades ago. There is open source high quality encoder (MP3LAME). And today 320 kbps MP3s for music is not too large to be practical. Patents for MP3 have expired years ago, and this format is supported by literally everything. So we not just didn't went away from it, it became the golden standard for music. Like JPEG for photos. Yes, there are competitors like AAC (M4A), Opus, Vorbis, but they don't give big advantage for high quality music compression. For AAC it's about 25%.
@@Etcher He's right though. It's not about "replacing everything at once", but it's about getting some of your favourite in a CD format. So in the first years is "new releases + some old one I want in CD too", then it was "new releases only". Math is math, the decline in sales is automatic. Other than that, piracy has been proven time and time again as a no factor in sales drop. That's a legend that comes with the "you wouldn't download a car" campaign :) The equation "you downloaded it, if you couldn't you would have bought it" is simply false.
I've recently started to get interested in CDs and started to rip CDs that my parents and other relatives have, and have downloaded tons of flac music from online to listen to better quality music than my MP3 collection.
i started using blu-rays for data storage, as 25gb and 128gb blu rays are still pretty decent for backups, and because its a "dead" medium i often find deals where they are actually cheaper per GB $ than HDDs, but seeing how HDD sizes are growing every year and last blu-ray upgrades where we got 100GB and 128GB blu-rays was in 2010 there is a lot of catchup too do
Yeah that notion is very misleading. CD (and vinyl too) is well alive and there are many youngsters who like and buy them, and I say this as a young person myself. I was in a disc and record store a few weeks ago and saw many other people browsing who were clearly in the 16-30 age group!
@@raphanunu6912 Yeah, I see no issue with "private cloud" storage -- collections of data hosted, maintained, and available to yourself. But cloud providers? Pffff.. sure. I'll pay for it, but we can keep it all at your house. Yeah right.
Just used it today,i have an older car and i like the 2000"s interior design and i didnt want to change the radio to something newer,so i use cd to have that good sound quality. i even bought a computer case(from fractal design) that can hold cd writer and i make like 2-3 cd's a week for my car player :)
"When was the last time you used a CD or went to a physical music store?" Literally yesterday. Found some great CD's and 2 vinyl records. I don't think I'll ever stop collecting music on physical media.
Right, but videos about physical media tend to attract physical media enthusiasts, so naturally these comments could create the false impression that there’s still huge demand for CDs. It’s most certainly a niche item like vinyl and cassettes
I could see something like this working really well in a format similar to minidisc. Have a small, fully enclosed disc that you can carry around like a floppy disk. Reduced size means faster read/write times and easy portability, fully enclosed means it can function like tape storage.
You know, the real problem with a lot of the innovations to improve optical media is that they don't quite solve the problem in a way we actually kinda needed, which at the same time would probably be favorable for the manufacturers and recording companies too. A few of those problems is to do with material cost, packaging for shipment and store space, waste and recycling, and read and write speeds/responsiveness without changing consumer hardware all that much. One of the solutions they passed up (all with the exception of one format in particular, which was AlphaDisc) was actually multi-level recording, which basically just used existing optical systems, but updated them to make data pits in the disc at variable levels rather than one. Paired this in tandem with using 8 cm. discs instead of the typical 12 cm. ones you could basically bring up read/write speeds, bring down manufacturing and material costs on the discs themselves and the packaging for them, and because they're smaller the store space and bulk shipping allows greater volume of units in the same amount of space as the usual 12 cm. discs. Plus recycling and waste material is lessened in terms of impact since you need less to make smaller discs and packaging for them and you could even extend this to end user drives and systems to make them more compact. This was something I had for a while been surprised none of them picked up on, especially after they got to UltraHD Blurays that are basically quad-layer discs with pwm pitch recording, since then they could hold more content at smaller sizes and all they'd have to do is drop the larger sizes for lower capacity BDs (25-50 gig discs) and keep 12 cm. for the ones maximizing on space. Even HD-DVD had a multi-format spec that allowed multiple layers of the discs to be either DVD, HD-DVD, CD, or even BD to hold the same content all while making the disc universally compatible in a way, even if it costs slightly more to make since it cuts down on having to sell separate formats of the same content in different packaging altogether. I guess that's kind of a sad thing though when they went in for digital with Apple and Microsoft pushing this at the forefront, as neither solution truly materialized and we ended up with increased landfill waste (for anything not recycled that is) and dying mediums that cost manufacturers quite a bit till a lot of them quit, leaving only a few in the world now (especially with Blurays as Sony is one of the few sole manufacturers for them to note, apparently.)
If they can scale this to full use, I'd say that there is a market for it. With all the privacy concerns around cloud storage, there is a very real market for this kind of, local, physical storage.
I'm kinda shocked that Blu Rays didn't become mainstays for all kinds of media. Instead, it was mostly used for consumer movies and tv show copies. Imagine if they put extreme lossless audio on Blu Rays.
Look up blu-spec CDs, they're CDs like blu-ray discs but readable in existing CD players. They're common in Japan where CDs are still the preferred music delivery method
Scratches was also one of the main problems of many using it. If using scratchproof surface is not a choice because it can add more to the price why not just protect it with a plastic container like the diskettes way back.
I think there's still hope for you enthusiasts. Just like hope the gramophone has become popular again; again from it's quality, so is there hope for CD's I think
@@nfarotk yeah you still have to take care of CD's. If you store them in a humid area / basement they can "rot" from the outside in, even if unscratched. They aren't an indefinite storage, but they can last a long time in the right care.
Laughing about the cautions "This may be many years before it becomes a reality..." I remember somewhere around 5th grade seeing something in Popular Science magazine that they said would eventually revolutionize the world. It was the "LCD" and the displays that eventually became available became cheap and ubiquitous. By the time I bought my first CRT (the first one I paid for) sometime in the early '90s it was $500 - $600 for a 18" CRT display. And now here I sit in front of my 42" 4k display which I paid about $300 for.
@@tuxt7156 Not really. It's large enough to read unless you need cokebottle glasses, and, at 4k has about 10x to 50x the actual screen display area (your '11" CRT' was, at best, 480x240 or thereabouts in resolution -- and thus visual info display -- instead of 3840x2160). Actual comparison of the screen sizes is more like a 15" to 20" CRT -- by the early 1990s there were 24" 1k CRT monitors and 35" Std-def TVs. I know, I had access to both.
@@chuck948 From who's arse did you pull that gem? The only possible way you could honestly say "better" is in how long they lasted. In EVERY other respect, LCD is far superior to CRT. Every respect. You even named 1 way yourself, cheaper to manufacture.
I was a DJ for 15 years and still play around and I'm gonna straight up say that I still burn my tracks on CD'S because the music quality is second to none. The more u compress music the high volume quality dramatically decreases and sometimes all volume levels the quality blows. Thanks for the extremely informative video Da Goggo. You're one person who makes videos that we can actually trust the information you're saying. You really do your research and if u don't know it u don't spread it. Thanks brother
There was already a 120 Tb optical disc in limited production several years ago. When the Israeli lunar lander exploded in 2019, it reportedly had one onboard. I know that they were a year or two old at that point.
Definitely a cool breakthrough. But for it to become commercially viable? Maybe another ten years with no roadblocks. Twenty if competition pays to keep it buried...
Remember Napster and Metallica? And now companies are plugged into your bank account, rather than you owning a CD, your renting music and movies infinitely 😢
Streaming works great for the vast majority of people. Only audiophiles and those weird paranoid off-the-grid libertarian guys are all that worried about forking over their credit card for basically unfettered access to all of recorded music for like 12 bucks a month. Given the number of albums I listen to every month on streaming, if I had to actually buy each of those I would be broke lol
@@pensivepenguin3000 I hear ya, and have no issues with streaming in general and I am no audiophile or anything. Just old and have collected so many cds/vinyls over time. I realized a couple of years ago that the majority of songs/albums I would listen too from Apple Music/Spotify etc I already own. So why am I wasting money on that. Plus one of my all-time favorite artists had pulled her entire catalog from all streaming services last Nov. So the only way I could listen to her is if I had it.
@@felinehermetica haha yup. let’s not forget, the Metallica song that people were downloading was “I disappear,” arguably one of their worst songs. So yeah Lars, maybe it’s not that people aren’t willing to pay for your music - it’s that people aren’t willing to pay for the shitty music you were making at the time
I even bought a CD recently and it took me back so many years ago. There was just something special about owning a physical copy and then being able to burn the songs onto iTunes aka Apple Music nowadays.
Seems like this could be really useful for database snapshots, even with the lower read/write speed. These backups require a lot of storage, but rarely need to be used.
I'm a movie collector with more than 3K movies and series, and I'd love to get a way to backup my collection, so they're secure long term. But it seems there's no 100% secure way of doing it, I'll risk malfunction and dead files over time.
Out of curiosity, have you looked into Tape Drive storage? Combined with rugged filesystems like ZFS to do online storage, that should be very close. Not sure what the error rate on tapes is though...
Buy 3 discs, one primary, one backup kept at home and one back up kept in a bank vault/lock box. Encrypt properly in case of theft. This is more or less 100% secure.
I presume that you have a NAS for your collection. The good NAS's generally have a way to protect against loss, such as snapshots and will also protect against bit rot if you set it up. And large HDD's for backup aren't so expensive that a collection like yours isn't worth spending the money to protect. My collection is closer to 1,000 plus some TV series and the cost of the HDD's to store it isn't so bad. A second, more basic NAS with drives is a simple and inexpensive backup solution.
This video created a lot of confusion. There is a big difference between stamped discs for mass manufactured consumer media and writable discs like this. I have worked at a Bluray production company and it gets really expensive stamping multiple layers, because you need to manufacture a stamper for every layer and the machines that can stamp multi layer discs are really big and complicated. This 100 layer disk is only for writing, no stamping and you wouldn't want to write mass market products to disks, no matter the layer amount, because that is way to slow. I'm sorry, but this is not going to be the next big optical disc format.
It's not going to be the next big optical disc format in the way that you think now. But if it can store 125 Terabytes, then why not simply use it as an external hard drive type system? Have a SSD for fast read/write stuff and then this as long term storage.
@@robthemodYT why not? speed. even a hard drive is blazingly fast compared to burning a disk, and there is no real way to increase that speed short of spinning the disk faster which has physical limitations, or adding in a second laser for dual writing which would double costs
@@oggilein1 The thing is, the most used long-storage format currently in use is LTO (Linear Tape Open). One disk of LTO9 has 18-45TB of storage, but, it can ONLY read 400 MB/s. If they refine it so the speed is at the 100s of MB/s, it would be slow, yes, but, for long-term storage, where you need to make backups of whole server machines and dataframes, it is worth the wait.
I think they will but not as mainstream media. I see a CD market similar to the current vinyl market re-emerging for a number of reasons. Definitely see collectors moving into the CD market in the near future and prices going up.
I still have CDs, DVDs with RW capacity from 10 years ago, still works. I just putted them in that plastic case, and that same case somewhere lies and east dust(or its covered with dust) - i just take those CDs, and they works - in PCs, those DVD machines, mini-lines(that music box which can take cassetes and disks), TVs with a same ability to take CDs/DVDs (from side or back side)...still works. They just need proper case to be stored in be it those plastic ones or that with a finer zip - bith are good.
Hm, ultra transparent with 100 data layers / levels and tiny spots. Sounds like a one way ticket to write off a disc with a single scratch on the surface. I think these discs need to be put in a cardridge of sorts like for example Mini Discs, the PSP discs, diskettes, etc.
We've been using optical based media for cold/archive storage in data centers for about a decade now. The problem hasn't really been the storage density, but how fast you can read/write to something with that high density, as mentioned at the end. We already do many terabytes per cartridge. You have different types of storage for different types of access patterns.
Heck, I still use my DVD-Rs and don't intend to get rid of em. I don't trust cloud storage worth a damn. I'd love to see this new physical format take off.
DVDs are considered the least safe optical media tho, i would recommend switching over to blu-ray, they are 25GB and more anyway, M-disc bluray are even more resistant and can survive being submerged underwater and other things + modern burners like nero lets you add redundancy so depending on how much data space you are willing to sacrifice you can get lots of scratches and the data will read just fine
One of the greatest lines - regardless of context - ever uttered on film. I'll say this on a whim after some event happens and half the people get the refence and the rest are confused why I'd try and buy an experience for a dollar.
People always obsess over storage, but the real problem with optical discs are the read/write speeds. Not storage. Storage was never what made it become "obsolete." For video games, there's literally no reason they couldn't just ship multiple discs like back in the day for the few huge games. Physical media is dying in part because companies don't want to provide that option. They're trying to kill it. They easily could provide it if they wanted to.
What killed DVD was antivirus programs. Software corporations uses antivirus to find "viruses" on free alternatives for expensive software, until that alternative becomes so popular that they can't continue it any more and then they correct the "false alarm" from antivirus. Ten years ago antivirus programs started abusing dvd media. They read multiple files at the same time making DVD speed to crawl. There is no reason to read dvd with abusive way other than alienate users from it.
I hope this comes back. I miss storing stuff on CDs. Everytime my harddrive dies I lose all my data and a piece of me dies because there was decades of data on it.
Maybe buy another drive and save your data there. In the IT we say - no back up, no pity. For this, i have four back up drives. My data is safe i think.
You could buy another drive and set up a RAID 1 configuration (it's not difficult, even I managed it all through Windows lol) This mirrors your drive over two disks so if one fails, you don't lose the data.
Respectfully, I can't see this taking off. For those unaware, 20 years ago a similar idea was conceived with the Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD) which could hold 4TB versus the 50GB Blu-rays at the time. It never took off for the exact same reasons that plague this new CD technology but now this has to contend with streaming.
forget streaming, videos are not the best use case. flash storage has the issue of long-term storage. after a few years, especially with cheaper drives it tends to wipe itself. HDDs also have a longevity issue too 3-5 years spinning in a system with about 20 when out of it. CDs have less moving parts than a whole HDD. Less to go wrong. If this lasts longer than that, it'll be fantastic for archives.
@@m-jq6cw "3-5 years spinning" 24/7 under 100 load. You mean. That was the conditions of that IBM study you are referencing. Tell me. Do you keep your external drives running 24/7 under maximum load?
@@DerekDavis213 HDDs are also slow compared to SSD, and people buy them because they are cheaper per TB, speed isn't everything. plenty of content creators would love a CD where they could dump data, instead of owning a 3 ton server
If I could have my local storage pumped up to 200000 GB, and this to an affordable price, I would absolutely buy this. I’d spend a lot of money, I’m sure I’m not the only one.
m-disk and blu.rays use inorganic dye so they are way better for long term storage DVDs were known to be the optical media who suffered the most bitrot if stored improperly, so i prefer blu-ray as they are 25GB - 128GB and overall better for long term storage
@@pikaskew if you use something like the NERO burner you can dedicate space not used on the disc for redundancy on the disc itself, providing another layer of protection
Podría venir en un estuche especial, como los discos MO o los MiniDisc, así se previene ralladuras. Una lástima que no aplicaron la misma práctica al resto de formatos de discos, los harían mucho menos frágiles.
comparing: 1.6 petabits = 200 terabytes. And the cover says 200 000 Gb. So i guess its petabits, which is a bad way of explaining data size in laymen terms.
Imagine if they used this research and applied it to consoles. Imagine being able to finally go back to plug-n-play. No more needing to install more data for games. I would love that.
i love hi-tech. cd´s and dvd´s are not affected by virus or electrical issues like hard drives. i had 20 years old cd´s and they are in good shape. original disks are made under policarbonated pressured material and every one is maded with a very low cost process.
I had a physics teacher in university who used to say, when teaching us about holograms, that CDs could become some massive storage devices if we could be able to make layers on them. Well, the guy was really on point. Edit: that was in 1998
1998? there was already stories about dual-layer dvds being researched by then and by 2004 they were sold commercially, anyway the researchers updated their story since the video and the write speed is just as fast if not faster than a HDD
@@automatedrussianbot Man, and you should consider I am from Ecuador and the internet wasn’t too mainstream back then, we were just downloading songs and beginning to discover torrents 🥹those were the days! Hahaha
Fun fact: According to Joop Sinjou, Phillips' head of development of audio products at the time, the hole in the middle of the CD (and it's successors) was based on the Dutch Guilder "Dubbeltje", which was 10 (Dutch guilder) cents a the time and was the quickest decision that was made in the development process. Some people also claim that the overall size of the disc was determined by the (then) size of a Heineken coaster, although I can't find a proper source to either confirm or dismiss this claim.
Cursory research says that it's size was inversely proportional to the data that Sony wanted on it, which was allegedly Beethoven's entire 9th symphony.
@@pauldeddens5349 The vinyl record intvented by Emil Berliner in 1890s is a solid disc with no center, as well as Laservision discs. I'm not getting your point
@@mateuszorlinski7334 Im thinking a disk with no center mounting pivot point. Many Vinyls have pivot points in the center to rotate on. And all the Laserdiscs ive seen have cut out centers to pivot on as well.
@@pauldeddens5349 I don't think that anybody thought about something like this during the develepoment of CD - may parts regarding disc transport were adapted form Laservision
There are so many pluses here if this technology can be made viable. I would say for all the "greenies" out there that think their files are in some "cloud" have no idea how much power is sucked up by these "data" centers and that alone should spur on development. Currently I cannot imagine this being an "individual" thing for a number of reasons but can see certain big companies and agencies being attracted to the archiving possibilities. Excellent vid! Thanks
@@LivingLinux we have archival LTO tape drives that can write 18TB of data in about 12 hours (1.5TB/h), so if this disk based medium can burn data to disk faster than that then it might see use for archival purposes, and with it being a disk accessing a file in the middle of it is much quicker compared to a linear tape based medium
Just look at that 100TB SSD shown, obviously there are customers for such, so these new optical disks should have no trouble. Think Amazon Glacier storage etc.
A whole lot of people are still using CDs. Along with the fact that many people still buy them, and there is a massive back-log of existing unused ones, along with the ability to make one's own, they're likely to be around a long time.
"When was the last time you used a CD or went to a physical music store?" A month or two ago. Ton of music isnt on Bandcamp and Amazon likes to compress the music to hell. I end up buying the CD and then ripping it myself as a FLAC to use it for my car radio and PC.
I hit up my locally owned and operated record stores as often as I can! I pick through the CD racks at Goodwill, too. Finally getting back at Columbia House!
comparing a CD for data storage is bad, considering people used 25GB - 128GB blu-rays for data storage for a long time, it also has way faster write speed than CDs
The "nano CD", a dime-sized CD developed by MIT in 2000 utilizing silicon needle boasting a 500 GB capacity would have a better shelf life and mean time between failure than any contemporary multilayer optical solution.
I would use it in a heart beat if it was as convenient as CD's were. There is sooo much data that I would rather preserve if I had the option, and I think we would be surprised at how many people would switch from storing online to on a disc if they were that big.
The mixing of the use of bits and bytes is driving me nuts: 1.6 Petabits = 0.2 Petabytes.
Agreed, bits need to be dropped...all they tell you is about how many 1s and 0s it can hold, but we need 8 bits for one byte, which is an actual piece of data to form letters for example...we should just stick to bytes. They used bits early on in selling internet speeds to fool consumers into thinking they're faster....bytes make the most sense.
I can see it here, though. What they are cramming into those experimental discs are bits. They get organized into bytes later. (A chicken lays one egg at a time, not a dozen.)
BITS,
I just assumed they meant bytes throughout the video.
👍🏻@@StarrDust0
Maybe put the disc in a casing like the mini disc.
Losing 700 MB is one thing but losing 1.6 petabits because your disc got scratched up or stained would be a bit hard to swallow.
You wont lose your data if it gets scratched, unless it is a very deep scratch, the data isn't stored on the surface.
And you can grind the surface to “repair” the damage
_"Sharing_ 700 MB of highly personal data with a Cloud provider - that will sell it to anybody - just to save it is one thing...."
@@danielreed5199 It really depends on orientation of scratches and what do you exactly mean by 'deep'
But yeah, there are bit pattern mechanisms to error-correct for tiny damages
@@danielreed5199but you'd probably have trouble reading the data, we all know how CDs ended up after some bumpy roads. No data was lost, but the scratches confused the player
Would love to see this come back. Local, hard, disconnected storage is guaranteed security
It's so durable, basically all plastic, while flash is brittle and unsecured, won't survive for very long.
Puts magnet near by - Edit it was a dumb joke guys. Yes magnets won’t work.
@@Rue_Madora you people are missing the point.
You’d plug this CD thing in and perform a backup 6x a year. The rest of the time it would sit in a small, secure, anti-magnetic case.
The problem with privacy today is size of personal data stores has become so big is prohibitively expensive to store in a secure way.
U know I can't save my private pics in phone because when suddenly it got to be repaired these repair shop guys can extract the images and put it on web without u ever knowing because of phone companies removing sd card facility in today's smartphones
@@sshah2545 nah I get you, I’m just jking around m8. I prefer CDs tbh
They can now fit half a COD game
And a lot of it is just advertisements and telemetry probably
A dual layer blu ray can hold about 50GB
@@endezeichengrimm It's a joke
@@endezeichengrimmThat's not even enough to hold Tekken 7.
NO LIES WHEN DID DOWNLOADING COD BECOME 200GB MINIMUM??? they can get lost or optimise their game.
With physical media going away and everything being digital "Not owned" by us, I fully 1000% welcome physical media disks back with open arms.
Local storage is cheap these days. You can buy a 1 TB M2 ssd for $80. Torrent and crack the world.
At 1.6 petabyte capacity, I really don't think this will be for consumer application (you'd have to have an INSANE amount of media to store, maybe in uncompressed 16K, who knows).
@@ebinrock Who knows we may want to randomly back up the entire pornhub catalog. lmao
Derp, you realize it's just as easy to tie optical media to a DRM/license server as it is to... any other digital media, no?
Ask owners of the Half Life 2 games on CD and DVD how well they work without steam.
Ask owners of... any Games for Windows Live games that came on CD/DVD.
Ask owners of Tony Hawk 4 how well it plays on Xbox without servers.
Ditto: The Crew on optical media, anything using SecuRom, etc. etc. etc.
Recently I realized that listening to a CD is an anonymous activity, and that has a lot of appeal for me. No one needs to know what I'm watching or listening to.
So, basically, it's possible to store 200tb on a CD but very expensive and time consuming to read or write on it. But if the read/write speeds improve, data centers can use this tech.
This is EXACTLY why CDs got put on the back shelf. Doesn't matter how MUCH you can store, the TIME it takes to retrieve the data (and to store it) is, well, I'm guessing you never had a tape backup drive in your 386. It's SLOW.
@@AnthonyRBlacker Tape drives are even still in use today! And yes, they are agonizingly slow to my understanding.
@IssacFoster Honestly? $50,000 makes it very affordable for data centers. Consider that 1,600TB in HDD's is about the same price. More importantly, that number of HDD's (I'm using 10TB as an example) would consume _significantly_ more power over time, not to mention IT resources. And because data centers require multiple drives to hold the same data (AKA RAID), that cost multiplies significantly. Sure, they will also need multiple of these optical drives, but the cost scale is not the same.
@@TheEDFLegacy that's why I said this can be used in datacenters if the read/speeds improve. Unless you buy a least hundred of these devices that cost 50k and make a huge raid system. I don't know how huge datacenters take deals but spending 5 million dollars for a 200PB facility sounds fine to me.
@@AnthonyRBlacker Exactly this 💯 It is just too bloody slow. Even for data centers that can afford the lasers, what exactly is a data center supposed to do with data that can be retrieved only a few megabytes at a time? This isn't 1994. The speed and bandwidth of this thing would have to increase dramatically to be of any use.
Actually, the assumption that people prefer online only media to cosnume might be wrong. People are starting to realize that you don't really own the digital content, you just get e permision to use it. The feeling of really "owning" something might become more preferable in time as companies start to abuse ther power over the digital market.
Unfortunately, they don't want you to have your own copy that you can access without a subscription. They don't want to sell you a copy on disk, or to even allow downloading to a hard drive, any more. And it's highly unlikely they will ever go back to offering anything on disks, no matter what new disk technology comes along. It's much more profitable for them to keep their subscription based model, and when it's not, then it becomes an ad supported subscription based model.
This is still a very small minority, same reason why Netflix's stock went up after cracking down on password sharing
I buy a physical copy of any content I really care about. They usually come with a digital code so you get a free digital copy anyway if the convenience is important.
Surely this would be shutdown by big tech companies? If they think piracy is an issue, wait until 1 disc can contain the whole of 2025.. games would be an issue. Hopefully this will slow down the greed that companies like Sony, Microsoft etc have with there digital content. I can almost guarantee this is just a pipe dream 😂
In my experience working in a video game store, people don't care if it's on a disc or not, as long as they can play it as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, it seems that quite a lot of people nowadays don't even understand the difference between owning a physical copy of a movie/game/album and a subscription to an online platform.
The " convenience " pill worked well.
They are stuck in renting access to a bunch of libraries and seem to think that it is " progress ".
For a lot of people, it is much, much cheaper as well than trying to own every song like in the 2000's. Plus they do not have to worry about losing it somewhere random.
There are downsides obviously but most of that is mitigated by being an average consumer
it is probably going to be like LTO tapes. The disks themselfes will be cheap but the drive that reads them will be expensive.
The first cd, dvd, and blu ray drives were also expensive
Yeah but not 50k expensive
@@myne00 My first CD-Writer (1x Write and read with Caddy, SCSI Interface) was about 2000€ + 500€ for a cheap Adaptec SCSI-Card.
@@nutzeeerfemtosecond lasers aren’t gonna become household devices any time soon. They don’t scale down well, and require incredibly high purity of their components.
@@Scrogan i bet they are gonna hack something together. The first regular laser also were really large.
Will it be refined? Yes. Will it be commercially successful? Yet to be determined as you said. I worked on the magneto optic data storage technology for about 15 years. It was robust. It was the leap forward at the beginning of that tech. Other tech came along. M-O drives and discs were expensive. It sold for a while and I think mostly in Japan. It didn't dominate and eventually played out. This video brought back memories of storage media development. Lots of fun and hard work.
Sony will probably get this on the market in the future
Considering I heard about this sort of CD advancement(not exact capacity, much still much greater than regular CD) *several years ago* and it's still gotten nowhere, it's not looking
the cds and dvd nned a bulge at the rim -It has been suggested before but Phillips who "own the format ignores the matter -A small bulge would give the surface clearence from dust on a table but not obviously sandgrains - Or they could redo how the data is stored -to instead of in a long circular line around the disc use it as pieces of a pie-If on pie get scratches then 9/10 are still readable and get rid of the dumb idea of having the startsector in the inner curve from where cracks expand outward- have it 2 places at least
You can rest assured it will never be developed that simple
We had an MO drive, stupid expensive, wish we used Zip like everyone else.
I swear bro 1970s to early 2000s Japan was an engineering haven.
Thats when/why the Cyberpunk genre was so popularized. It was a plausible theory that Japan as a tech-culture could take over the world... However it failed, their business style didnt foster fast enough innovation in the 2000s where life was rapidly changing (smartphones, social media etc) and kept focusing on "respecting the founder's ambition" and productivity (which they couldnt compete with China in). Of course also the economics in Japan collapsed unfortunately.
No. Germany is the real tech powerhouse. japan just copying and improving western techs.
They still are.
@@0xExcalibar752 definitely not on the same level as in the 80s - 20s though
@@0xExcalibar752lol indeed.
As someone who have baffled over Ubisoft decision to kill The Crew and erasing it from it's player library, and also as someone who're not having fast internet connection. I think this technology could bring physical games back to the market! 200k GB? That was Insane!
I want physical media back. I want to own my movies, music and video games
just buy a hardrive and store your movies and songs there after downloading them.
Nobody is stopping you.
@@fugslayernominee1397easier said than done. If you want to do that “legally” it’s impossible. All these things have some kind of DRM that must be removed first.
You can still buy vinyl and CDs
Ok boomer
I feel a little bit like with everyone being so sick of subscriptions and not owning anything but just renting it, that physical media is going to get a very passionate resurgence, if not just as a niche interest
In Japan, CD and even cassette still prevalent, I even buy Bocchi cassette. Even though sound quality is not FLAC level but damn it feels good to actually own a thing.
Sure but people will not pay that much for it and these new CDs will be expensive relative to options out there
@@MutheiM_MarzJapan is both advanced and not advanced in their use of technology. They invent lots of technology but also the people tend to use lots of old school tech.
i still have 1000+ cdr/dvdr disk 😂 they are full of movies and stuff and most of them are not available anywhere else ( not in online platforms not in torrent etc) but most of them are dvdrip so the quality is 360p in terms of youtube standarts 😂 and those movies are from 2000s and didnt get any bluray or online 1080p release.. they are simply unknown or not exist to new z generation.
Physical media doesn't stop a company from making it a subscription or even mean you own it as the eula roofie says since it still contains drm and you can't copy a lot of it without hacking it and can only read it on devices the company approves.
Removing subscriptions, renting, drm and not owning anything from all media is the only way to actually own your media weather it's physical or digital otherwise they'll make sure you don't own and only rent and subscribe to physical media to.
There is a sci-fi horror movie called Event Horizon that came out in 1995 about the world in 2040. Everything was great, except they showed CD-disks being used in spaceship as storage device.
I was amused, watching that in 2022, but now it seems that the movie actually might have predicted the future and that it was the CDs used in this video.
Edit : The movie came out in 1997, as some people pointed out in the replies. I humbly stand corrected.
I'm predicting this is a multilayer DVD or Blu-ray
"You won't need flash storage were you're going"
It came out in 1997 and yeah was a great movie, but yes the fact these discs can hold that size is great, the only downfall maybe if the dont protect the disc.
This often happens with sci-fi shows and movies set far into the future, they don't age well.
That movie sucked and the only thing that rubbed you the wrong way was a cd player?
We need ownership of our products. If they can scale this technology for commercial use in just the gaming, music, and multimedia industries , I think a significant portion of the population would welcome the return of the CD with open arms.
I am confused at how streaming is more convenient. I just open a folder and click a file on my computer.
they updated the story since the vide, and were able to get write speeds faster than HDDs, seeing how videos and music disappears from streaming platforms all the time, ownership of your own media is more important than ever
Totally agree 👍
You own your PC and smartphone and the storage medium. You own the CD. You never own the music itself, only the medium its stored own. When you buy a CD, you pay for the lincense, not for the ownership of the music.
@@Saroku1000While technically true, the record labels and movie companies can’t revoke said license of said media. While software updates on playback hardware might try to block it from playing (if you let said hardware update itself, that is), there are multiple ways to circumvent that (taking advantage of the “analog loophole” before the updated firmware tries to block playback being just one of them, component video can only go up to 1080p, so that’s a limitation). And that’s only applicable for Blu-ray discs. CDs and DVDs have no such advanced DRM available. CDs aren’t encrypted at all and the rudimentary encryption on DVDs has been cracked for decades. That’s to say nothing about Vinyl, Audio Cassettes, and 90+% of VHS (a lot of Commercial VHS tapes have an arcane form of copy protection that in some rare cases is extremely difficult to defeat when attempting to transfer it to a digital recording).
The same cannot be said about streaming libraries where said companies remove access at the click of a button with absolutely no recourse available to you. It simply goes poof from your streaming library.
So for all practical purposes, yes, you do own your copy of the content on most physical media. It’s why the major industry associations want physical media to go away sooner rather than later, and we’re blindly helping them achieve that.
Fun fact: The bit depth and sample rate of CD, which is still used on a lot of modern formats and streaming today, was set by the capability of an ancient video cassette format called U-matic. In the early days, there was no practical way to store or transport the amount of data a CD held. So Sony developed a range of PCM encoders, the most popular of which were the PCM1610 and improved PCM1630. These stunningly expensive devices were paired up with suitably expensive special U-matic video recorders, so that the contents of a CD could be written out to video tape for delivery. The data rate pushed the very limits of what could be stored on video tape, and to be honest the format was fragile even when new. Now there are hardly any working sets of PCM1630 encoders with their matching DRM4000 U-matic decks left. I have two of these kits which I use to recover PCM audio tapes which recording studios find in their archives. Also I've added even more rare equipment to them so that the data can be extracted via a pure digital route, which is complicated by the PCM equipment using an obsolete digital audio connection method. I love this sort of junk.
Omg you have content!??
Subscribed!!
Remember no streaming service in the world is comparable to cd streaming is far inferior to the point that most people will choose cd for MUCH better noticeable sound quality over any steaming service even tidal isnt as good
Didn't they do that on VHS tapes too?
@@DaRush-The_Soviet_Gamer you can use a pcm adapter and a supported player to encode digital CD audio onto a VHS tape I'm pretty sure it's what they used to store digital audio in very early days due to its effectiveness and low cost
@@Jaden-eh6rh Yeah I remember Techmoan talking about those PCM AUDIO VHS decks for audiophiles in the 80s before DAT came along and made an alternative for PCM AUDIO VHS with very similar spinning head technology, but on a much smaller tape.
The best format optical discs could return in would be MiniDiscs, in which the optical disc is encased in a plastic cartridge casing, protecting it from environmental exposure. It is more complicated to produce but is far more enduring and also smaller. Small enough to be used with portable music devices and making it better for use on the go
It would fit the best of all cyberpunk futures while giving us exactly what we need
It would also bring back the lost art of box art and disk art
Then you'd have the same problem I face with UMDs... that is, the casing eventually wears down, and needs to be replaced. And if you don't know what a UMD is, it's basically a MiniDisc on steroids. It can store up to 1.8GB instead of 700MB, the only downsides? You can only use them on a PSP, and RWs for them NEVER existed.
Plastic cartridge casings for CDs existed way before Mini-Disc, and were generally used by business/education/research for CD-ROMs
Psp tried for a while
@@aiodensghost8645 Replacing a plastic case is less annoying than replacing the disk, and disks do wear out and get damaged over time, as we all would know. The magic solution would be a disc that is the best of both worlds, having the durability of a caddy with the resilience of a disk like a CD or a DVD that can be safely handled without one. Of course, you usually get one or the other... the manufacturer doesn't want the extra expense of a caddy if the disk is durable enough to survive being moved around without.
I cancelled my Spotify subscription and was surprised to find that my lounge room cabinet full of CDs didn't disappear overnight. Don't tell Spotify, but it looks like I've found a loophole in their business model which allows me to actually own the music and play it forever!
lol
Search: Spotify Offline mode. This is not a loophole.
And all it took was for you to abandon your CDs for Spotify in the first place. Let's see how long it takes for you to cancel Netflix and switch to Blurays
and then your cd player died .. good luck finding an affordable -good- player with proper outputs now.
blame the 'oh i stream stuff'-generation.
Or do what most normal internet users do and pirate. Movies, songs, etc.. You can even own them!
Finally, a storage device with enough space to fit my Loona latex bondage collection
HUH 💀
😮 hell no bro get out of the internet
r/losercity-ahh user
you are atracted to animals ? (non-human animals)
@@kerolokerokerolo HUH
I remember switching from cassettes to cds and feeling like I lived in the year 3000
Yup and I remember having stacks of CDs and importing them to Windows Media Player one by one. Blown away to have my music collection digitized, organized, and clickable.
@@MakerInMotion It was iTunes for me, but same idea. Definitely one of the more satisfying moments was getting the last of the collection ripped. 😃
I remember hearing my first mp3 before that we had some computer files like MIDI and MOD files and WAV files that were very large because uncompressed audio took up a lot of hard drive space. I listened to the mp3 of Turning Japanese and thought that it would change the world.
I remember as a kid selling everything I had, even my bed, to buy a Sony Mini Disc, it was the coolest gadget I ever had, it lasted me for years.
@@MYwinters1945 What, just one Mini Disc? LOL
This new storage medium isn't practical yet, but there was a time when the CD wasn't either. I will patiently wait and be glad there is still work being done in this space.
My brother and I bought a CD writer/reader for 1,000 Canadian dollars at one point lol, they are about 20 bucks now.
Imagine 2 hours movies coded into pure 12 bits RGB or 12 bit 4:4:4 YCbCr with no compression ! That would be very awesome ! Edit : Or complets series ? 😲
There is no comparison to ssd tech.
@Mr.Smith101 *Yet.
What's odd is I remember reading stories about "3D" & "holographic" discs at least 7-10 years ago. At the time they were talking about being able to store 1TB on a single disc. I think even if they could have brought that to market it may have stopped the flood to cloud media/storage.
I honestly don't know why microSD/flash media didn't simply take the place of optical media given how quickly it expanded. Actually, yeah, I do. It's all about money. You can't make subscription money from physical media. Physical media/storage will ALWAYS be needed. I'm buying as much physical media (i.e. movies, tv shows, etc) as I possibly can so I can actually get rid of a lot if not all subscription services.
Also it is easier to spy on what people are doing if you are storing and have access to their data.
Actually, SD and microSD cards were intended to be the next physical replacement of CDs. They even have DRM and other controls built into the standard that is pretty much unused in most circumstances. The problem is they faced the same unforeseen threat that CDs did: The rise of fire sharing (remember napster?) followed by streaming.
You can buy digital media, no need for subscriptions.
Modern videogame developers are worried that if this CD tech catches on they'd be obligated to release finished videogames.
I want (to be able to buy) the entirety of a television series in full HD on one disc. Talk about the best of both worlds, convenient to binge without having to get up and change discs constantly, AND you actually get to own it
Edited for the occasional comment missing the point
• 10 seasons & all movies of Stargate, is about 70 GB, in 1080p with AV1 compression.
• x265 compression with AAC audio, can retain ≥4K content at a comparable file size (~25% of x264).
• One 100 GB m-data archival disc, costs about $11.
• *Done.*
@@prophetzarquon1922 Where are you finding 100GB M-Discs for $11? The cheapest I've seen is double that.
@@prophetzarquon1922 man thinks that bluray cant handle full season in reg HD on 1 disc is because of the tech lol and not because Corpos are greed hungry
Just torrent it buddy.
@@prophetzarquon1922 UA-cam appears to have deleted my comment just asking where you can get 100GB M-discs for $11. They really do censor comments for no reason.
It's great to see optical storage make a comeback. I worked on the first WORM optical drive at Optical Peripheral Labs in the early 80's with a team of about 100+ people. We developed the first commercial WORM drive that was released in 1984. I designed the error correction portion of the system for this drive. We had a bunch of NV Philips engineers and scientists working with us. They developed the media in Eindhoven and we developed the drive in Colorado Springs. I moved on to develop some of the original solid state and Flash disk emulators in the mid/late 80s for PCs and industrial applications. What a ride it has been!
What do you think of glass plate write-once storage schemes?
@@prophetzarquon1922 That was the technology that was used for the original WORM optical disks. The media had many defects in the day (early 1980s), hence a very powerful 10byte/5 way interleaved reed solomon ECC to compensate for the early versions of the media.
what did you major in college? im smart 148 iq but i dont know what to choose and im autistic. i want to go to Physics because it's easy for me and i love it but my mom said it's not practical and useless and that I should get into engineering so i can make alot of money
@@keithfritze6538 I specifically wanted your thoughts on Micro soft's Project Silica, for write-once enterprise storage on rectangular quartz glass plates, using the size of a mark & its orientation, to store data at each XYZ position; my expectation is that the prime costs right now would be the (¿quoted as $10K-$500K?) burners, & secondly the planned automation to rack & swap the plates for reading, with the plates themselves being relatively cheap? I think they were getting ~7TB per plate...
@@___Anakin.Skywalker I was an electrical engineer by training. You should follow your dreams and do what you enjoy and motivated to learn. And never stop learning. There is always something new to learn and to discover!
Two of these disks could store a Call of Duty game. That's insane!
What's insane is that a game should need more than one
such a low caliber casual game... PUBG is where adults play, and win millions (like Soniqs and TGLTN) No cod kid could beat him
@@dertythegroweraah yes the shoot die respawn shoot die respawn simulator how exciting!!
@@dertythegrower Imagine playing pubg in 2024. Well India's still living in 2015 so I'm not surprised.
@@nothcialhold your fire dude. why gotta rope in people you dont even know. and you dont even make sense pubg came out after 2016 or something like that.
SHOULD this ever hit the market, they better put it into a protective encasing, like DVD-RAM, ZIP Drive discs and of course the amazing MiniDisc and Hi MD. Because the biggest caveat of optical discs has always been the exposed read-side and the fact that most consumers treat their stuff like crap and always scratch up their discs by not handling them properly. A protective caddy would not only make it so much safer and story, it would also basically make it easier to add Labels on them, especially for recordable mediums. And differently colored plastic caddies would also add quite a nice color-options for when you need to make discs instantly recognizable as Audio Medium, Video Medium, Data Medium or archival medium.
My father was a sound engineer for a famous musician in the 70's-80's. While touring Japan, he bought a Sony CDP-101 (which I now have) and as many CDs as he could get his hands on because the digital crispness of the audio was without comparison at the time.
nice
Magnetic and flash memory manufacturers collude and price-fix to keep their margins from collapsing. Competition is overdue.
you are correct
Yes, but are you the real chocolate rain?
Supreme Court : that is illegal
Magnetic storage has just hit a wall for getting any cheaper, there are fixed costs involved, not collusion. As for flash storage, there WAS some serious collusion a few years back, but it's not so bad now, SSD's have gotten to pretty reasonable prices, but the manufacturers are trying not to make TOO much and oversaturate the market.
@@PAPO1990Did those fixed costs seem to happen around the time the flooding happened like 15 years ago? Because the prices per GB has remained pretty steady since then. It reeks of price fixing, because that was LONG before all of this helium and hamr stuff. And flash manufacturers for sure are price fixing. They promised back then how SSDs would be bigger than hard drives by now, much cheaper,and much more reliable (SLC). Now that 3D XPoint has been lost, they really have no reason to be competitive in pricing. We need a replacement for NAND. It's hot garbage.
I used to sell electronics years ago. I actually sold the Sony CDP-101 and remember it well. It was amazing as we had nothing remotely close to that technology at the time. It was in the early '80s. Sony then came out with the first portable CD player. A friend of mine bought one. They sold for $399.99 ... It was the first portable CD player our store sold.
A completely different story:
When I first started in the electronics field, I was about 19 years old. I worked with a man over twice my age and with lots of knowledge. His name was Monty, and he told me in the future we would have large thick phone book like directories that we would be able to dial up a song from and it would "stream" to us. This was predicted in about 1979 by Monty. He predicted what we now know of as streaming music!
Please keep in mind, this was before the first home PC was released and many years before the Internet!
There was no downloading, no streaming, no Internet, no cell phones, just records and turntables. No cassettes yet...just reel to reel tape machines.
I always remembered Monty because that was some thinking I'd never heard of before nor did anyone I knew ever imagine anything like that. Pretty co0ol!
Hate to burst ya bubble but hes basically talking about a telephone service. Not streaming.
Like a directory? He is saying yellowpages for songs
Like the idea is sort of there. But technology didn't evolve via a telephone service at all. So it's not really a prediction or at all streaming.
He basically replaced xxx hotlines in the backpage. With songs.
Great idea seeings things didn't exist like PCs and the net. But it's not streaming
I can actually imagine if those things didn't get invented. This taking off. So im not hating.
I can literally imagine people calling up to hear a song they wanted on their house phone ect.
If anything those things being invented prevented his idea actually being an actual thing.
So I kind of like his idea better. It has less downsides than nearly all of those inventions
@@drunkpaulocosta
May not have been an exact hit, but close enough.
Though the service we have is much more elegant, convenient and of higher audio quality than the original prediction.
@@drunkpaulocosta it's streaming when no one even dreamed of an Internet way back then! Lol Nor home computers! Lol
Close enough... Streaming through what was available at that time...a phone line! Hahaa! 🤣
@@unf3z4nt without a doubt. But a pretty close prediction considering the Internet and home PCs, let alone cell phones were years away! 👍
I so want this technology to be available for the public. Imagine saving all your sensitive data on a disk that you can keep safe for 50 years. I recently lost my 20 years pictures after an old drive died (the back up drive died too) and I don't think I will recover from it.
find profosional Data Recovery company with clean room..
Wow man. More strength to you. May everything be happy
@@efeend1there aren't any in my country
I think it’d be really cool if this technology could be harnessed to bring physical media back to video game consoles and help us preserve media. Maybe instead of using 100 layers, they could produce ones with fewer levels that could be more commercially viable.
That is pretty much what Bluray is doing. 128GB is enough for most games. You could do UV-ray to get more storage. I have worked at a Bluray production company and it gets really expensive with multiple layers, because you need to manufacture a stamper for every layer. The 100 layer disks talked about here are for special use not mass manufacturing consumer media. There is a big difference between pressed disks and writable disks this video failed to mention.
It seems like the laser required for these discs is the main bottleneck in making it commercially available. Not sure how much the discs would cost on their own based on the materials used, but 50,000$ for a laser to read/write seems to be the main thing holding this tech back from it being publicly available to everyone. It will probably make it's appearance in datacenters and such first, but I assume it's gonna be a while until this technology is economically viable for the average population. Still, pretty cool stuff.
@@lordgrindleton6595people seem pretty interested in getting back to physical media since the story been around about these new CDs. I bet someone cracks it
Honestly like a 1 terabyte disc would be great for consumer-grade archiving, like storing old photos and stuff
@@JustJayGaming 128GB is nothing for games. Imagine 1000GB available for future PS6/ Next Xbox games. The detail and size of the worlds, environments, characters, AI and so much more would be incredible.
I first ran into CD's in 1985. A guy I worked with had one and I was amazed. It turned out that one store in town carried them. I eventually bought one a few years later.
Are...are you me? 🤔
This is pretty much my exact foray into CDs. A friend introduced me to CDs in 1985 and I was shocked listening to Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel songs in such clarity. The technology felt absolutely transformative and that introduction started my trek into collecting those shiny, reflective (easily damaged) wonders.
What CD did you buy? 😀
@@MrBughyman1000hansen
1985 for me too. I started to buy CD's before I even had the player. I thought that because they were pretty expensive that, if I started my music collection first, when I could get them at a good price, I wouldn't be having a fork out a ton of cash on music at the same time that I bought the player. I still have most of those CD's.
@@jessihawkins9116 No. He didn't buy a CD. He bought a CD store. _Right???_
"Optical discs are known for their longevity and durability".... Scratches and disc rot differ from that
blame cheap manufacturers.
Most of my CDs from the 90s still work fine. They actually can and do last a very long time. Better than any hard drive or solid state drive.
Disc rot is rare on most forms of optical media. Laserdisc, CD Video (not Video CD), and HD-DVD are most susceptible.
...ssd's go bad without a clue...
I never understood why the back of metallic foil wasn't encased in plastic to protect it from scratches.
Another great feature: If you're willing to cut capacity in half (still a massive capacity) you could have essentially *indestructible* data storage. Error correcting codes could make use of the remaining bits so effectively, that you could put that disc through hell and grind it up significantly and not lose *any* data. The redundancy and ECC would be enough. Furthermore, this could all be done in a software layer without any hardware modification!
Have the option on writing so that you can write ONE copy at full capacity, TWO copies at half - right through to (for example) 4 -8 copies stored in physically different parts of the disk so even if someone shot a hole through it, you still have ALL data full intact. ULTRA stable data and still a 25TB to 50TB of storage.
If this was "cold storage", then the old CD changers which allow you to load a carousel with perhaps 4 - 16 newCDs and you are back to staggering values again.
Yes but that would make the writing double slow, and like they said in the video, it's already pretty slow.
@@Azarilh Just to emphasise how slow - it'd take about 5 years to write one disc. If you've ever owned a DVD burner, you'll know you're not getting through an hour of burning without throwing at least one disk in the shredder.
@@alexandralillywhite5997 I used to only buy RWs. Thos could be rewritten.
You can't rewrite these discs. They're not designed to be rewritten and likely never will be.
Digital and streaming is the enemy of the consumer. Long live physical media ♥️
yeah true but physical media has faults, mainly scratching. I just store stuff on the device to solve all my issues because right now it offers the best ratio of control, space and difficulty to break
That’s pretty one-sided. I recognize the obvious drawbacks of digital media, most noteworthy of which is, like, not actually owning the thing. At the same time though, for whatever they’re charging me now for Apple Music )12 bucks a month) I get basically most of recorded popular music at my fingertips. Considering how much music I listen to in a given month, I would be broke if I had to pay the equivalent amount for actual CDs, it is an excellent value proposition
@@pensivepenguin3000 I do see the convenience side of it and I too consume my music digitally, but the option for physical should not go anywhere because I like to actually own my stuff.
Think about it. A damn disk with 200TB of data that read it at mb/s speed? What next? Linking up 4000 cars with chains then claim about making the largest land transportation ever to rival the high speed train?
You are the enemy of my brain.
This will allow uncompressed movies. the files in movie theaters are 200gb per movie, even that is compressed in some way. Imagine uncompressed movies, the quality would be mind breaking for movie enthusiasts.
It might give a purpose to 8K and 16K TVs.
Some compression would benefit the other hardware in the media chain. Lossless compression is possible and would make reading from the media and transferring the data feasible on normal hardware.
@@pauldeddens5349yep, I find it funny that even higher resolution TV's are coming out, yet we still have heavily compressed media to play on them, what's the point...
I'm just waiting for the "The human eye can only see 1080p" idiots to enter the chat 😁 had one on twitter last week.
And for the next CoD installment to reach several TB of total storage requirement🤡
The LTO consortium is probably the main reason tape storage is so rare in the consumer space. Producers in the consortium can't even agree on standards, and are pretty hostile towards each other.
Tape is also very inconvenient. A spinning disc is already limited in speed and access but tape takes it so much further.
Regarding the hostilities, funnily enough it was the same for flash storage, if you remember the history of memory stick, compact flash, etc. Nowadays we only think of SD cards but they too had a hard time establishing themselves.
for 40-50TB of HDD space you get 600TB of tape storage(compressed) for the same price, it makes sense to use them for backups for large companies, and they can afford to store them properly
@@jayhill2193
With spining disc you can 10 or 100 laser to r/w in parallel...
With tape you cant
Plenty of people still use physical storage for backup.
Also you said kW of power per PB of storage. What does that mean. kW is a measure of power. How much ENERGY does it take to write a PB of data? Especially compared to current energy usage to write that in other media.
yeah the fact that he calls the new technology a CD is really kindof irritating, because it's not gonna be a CD but something of its own in the same way a DVD or bluray isn't a CD
The reason for Dire Straights success with their CD of Brothers in Arms was because Money for Nothing was on that album. Money for Nothing is still one of, if not the bands biggest hit. The music video was famous in 1985 (the year the album dropped) for its CGI (blocking though its seen as more stylized, even though that was some of better CGI of the era) characters that made it stand out on MTV.
Corrected: Dire Straits.
Big fan of them....
I want my... i want my... i want my MTV.
Yeah this was the first CD of Dire Straits i ever held in my hands when my dad got it for his CD collection in the early 90s. The cover artwork is pretty iconic too.
it's seen
That was the same year prerecorded cassette tape shells, and boxes went transparent clear, including the tape leader. This was to directly stay in style with the compact disc, which was also made by Philips.
For me, that song has dated. The only song that stands the test of time to my ears is 'So Far Away'. Love that one. And I never want to hear 'Walk Of Life' ever again. The music video made that song, but the song itself is mid.
"Ahh... I Scratch my disk"
"Okey, how bad is it?"
"Lost 100.000 movies..."
But it would still be 0.01% of the total amount.
That's similar to what I was thinking. The insides of a reader and writer have to be like a clean room too. Wonder how it would error correct for a dust molecule or good surface scratch. Can the laser be angled differently to recover since the data is in the layer not on the surface. How close to the surface is the data layer? Can it be read and confirmed from above and below so that a scratch on one side doesn't affect reading from the other. Would have to scratch both sides to block reads. Interesting new problems and solutions.
@@channel_alanif they fragment the videos so that a scratch would only destroy a small piece of a movie on pretty much every movie then it would be almost not noticable
@@Vinlaell While that's true, if you're playing directly from the disc you're going to need to buffer more to account for the last having to reposition on the (assumed) spinning disc for the next chunk of data, and storage has to be either for format aware or the sectors algorithmically allocated around the 3D space. Including the CRC data. Not impossible. Probably wise and better suited to archival backups. It'll really slow the wire speeds though because you'll have to wait for the next write space for a chunk, or organise the data before a write, waiting for the original storage medium to move to that chunk of data to read. There's a big cost to that distributed write standard.
"That's alright.. I got another backup as well on another disc"
Agreed with using a caddy case for protection of so much data. Could hold all media, stem data, history, books and whatever for games Ai and such, in a shoe box.
TBH if this will be affordable, there's a huge market for it in India as majority of the people still use hard drives and not cloud storage to back up there data
local storage is also convenient outside of india, i'm a hoarder and "still" use hard drives
I use cloud storage for everything, and it's on my hard drives in my house
@@stephentombs1851 when most people talk about cloud storage they mean the servers owned by outside entities.
I have been wanting to set up my own too, though.
@@namesurname4666nothing even remotely wrong with that. HDDs are superior to SSDs for storage
Nice spelling. "There" does not equal "their".
Something like this disc technology actually got designed many years ago in Australia. They called it a 5D (5 dimensional) disc. Then it just vanished nothing happened. It was said that a company bought it and shelved the patent.
Someone got rid of competition? 🤔
Or maybe they realised how silly their project was.
UK had the same thing in 2013. Used smaller discs, with double the capacity, and was dubbed "eternal storage" because it can withstand 190 degrees C for the lifetime of the universe. Presumably they had the same issue of it taking about a decade to write one disc!
@@alexandralillywhite5997 So, in real time !
A.C.Clarke, 3001 last space odyssey data drive
@@AzarilhNestle, Coca Cola or other big companies have been doing this, buy revolutionary items or things from small company then shelve it competition is dissolve.
6:59 at one point you say petabits, the next second it‘s petabytes. That’s a factor 8 difference.
He also conflates the CD format with this new one multiple times.
I am just now listening to my first CD I bought. It was late 1984, I was 13 years old, and it is a record of Richard Wagner's "Der Ring des Nibelungen", recorded 1983, conducted by Sir Georg Solti. Still works perfect as 40 years ago.
Longevity: Just because it's a compact disc is not enough to call it reliable. The data retention medium sounds different, so this will take additional research.
Adoption: Tape backup is not a consumer oriented product, and I doubt this would be either. Yes people are used to cloud and streaming, but that's a red herring. It's irrelevant. Those cloud storage and streaming services _would_ use it, and they're in a position to exploit it to its full potential. This could also drive down costs of archival in areas where the timelines to keep data are extreme. Having a small magazine of discs, duplicated across several sites around the world in small containers, is well worth the price of entry. If they prove durable, the cost savings from not needing to keep storage areas' atmospheres as tightly controlled could be massive.
m-disc is more hardy than tape, if you really want your data too last a century m-disk is the way too go
also if your basement floods normal HDDs and tape will die, while m-disks will survive
I never really gave up on CD because there is nothing better to save information cheaply and permanently.I have 20 year old Data-CDs and not to report a single data loss...not even a modern hard drive can do that. I love this technology.
Let me guess. VERBATIM brand blanks? Most cheapos tend to get those stupid GREEN ROT/RUSt rings on them after a couple of years in a moist UK environment. Verbatim on the other hand, never.
@@DaRush-The_Soviet_Gamer Yep, just Verbatim M-Disc´s. Unfortunately, they weren't available when I was young, so I had to make do with no-name ones.
Ive got a few almost 30 year old CD-Rs which are still working and of course some music mid 80s music CDs which are perfect.
i backed up everything i have on 25gb blu-ray discs few years ago and data is still solid, also if your entire room floods, m-disk bluray is the most secure storage media, the water would kill tape and harddrives
Tape can do it if you can find a cheap drive. Those were actually designed for long term archival storage.
The funny thing is that CD’s like this are actually necessary because video games are getting very large. Even though it’s unlikely we will need petabyte disks, it would still be useful to have large disks. The issue is that most developers don’t put the final game on the disk and often force you to download the game. If we lived in a world where they did put the final game on the disk, we would probably find it more convenient to have the physical copy of a game vs the digital.
if they wanna release all the games on one disc, its perfect, pluss rest of the surface area can be used for redundancy, so they become scratch resistant.
Yeah. Owning more than 2 games is getting prohibitively expensive for most PC gamers.
they easily fit on a BD-XL.
Otherwise, you can just download them. With a 10Gbit/s internet connection, it's faster than reading locally from an optical disk.
The earlier game systems had games on several CD's, then tech got better and then plateaued again with multiple CD's. With so much space available who knows what could be possible in the future.
the biggest limitation is our own contextualization. "Streaming replaced CD's so obviously CDs would replace streaming if it came back right?" that's the completely wrong way of going about it.
If we can use these CDs in place of HDDs and SSDs the $per TB of storage would fall drastically even with the limitations many people would be able to use CDs to run their own NAS Systems without braking the bank.
Literally 2 days ago, I was lamenting the fact that we don't have a good long-term storage solution for our data anymore because CDs and BluRays can't hold enough data. And now this video popped into my feed!
Why not store everything into a hard disk and put it somewhere safe?
@@muhammedraashid3667 because harddrives data integrity degrades after 7-8 years, and it would be expensive to get about 30 Terabytes worth of harddrives. CDs are cheap and last a little longer than harddrives, and they're optical storage instead of magnetic.
i love blu-rays because they have the longest data retention, 100+ years on mdisc, also love that its a "dead" media so i often find good deals on it
but if we got 500gb+ blu-ray discs i would be more than happy
@@automatedrussianbot Exactly! 500GB would be great, 1TB would be perfect.
Carefull they're NOT 100% reliable
Kid carrying a Discman
Friend: How many song you got there?
Kid: All. All of them.
And he still can’t find specific CCM from before 2000.
according to a random person on Reddit who i trust with my life all songs in the world would be able to fit in 120 petabytes. so you would need about 75 discs to store all music.
that said the calculation was based on there being 79 million songs in the world and i have googled some more and found higher numbers between 90 and 230 million songs. so lets just make it 300 million so that you can last a while and you would need 285 discs. that is a lot but totally manageable! imagine having one drawer in your room with just all the music! a second drawer for all the games :p its insane how much that is!
chuck norris is proud of this joke....
@@ivok9846 Well considering my dads music collection is over a year of continuous play and no repeats it's believable that you can fit all music onto one of these disks if it really has 200,000 GB...
Well a simple calculation for an mp3 (320kbps) which is on average 6mb, times that 200 million (estimated song total), is 1.2 petabytes
The decline of CD sales in the early 2000s was due to another factor besides MP3s. Their sales were inflated by the fact that millions of people were replacing collections of vinyl and tape with CDs. These collections were often large and could cover decades of music recordings. By 2000, most people had replaced the old media and sales sunk when they were mainly new titles.
I imagine piracy had a role to play as well with the availability of CD burners.
Yeah but i'm happy that we got away from mp3 because the sound quality is crappy
I don't agree with this at all. I knew people back then with thousands of vinyls and cassettes. None - NONE - of them ran out to spend thousands of their hard earned dollars on "replacing collections of vinyl and tape with CDs". It's not complicated - the iPod, Toshiba's groundbreaking and cheap 1.8" hard-drives and mass adoption of the internet put the nail in the coffin of CDs.
@@fab555trainspottingandmore The quality of MP3 depends on bitrate and how good the encoder is. In the beginning of the MP3 era bitrate was very limited, because internet connections were not widespread, and bandwidth was orders of magnitude smaller than today. Hard drive sizes were also orders of magnitude smaller. Data CDs helped a little bit, but not much. And MP3 encoders were pretty primitive. Those two factors caused the creation of a lot of poor sounding MP3-files. But today situation is different, MP3 encoders reached the peak of their quality decades ago. There is open source high quality encoder (MP3LAME). And today 320 kbps MP3s for music is not too large to be practical. Patents for MP3 have expired years ago, and this format is supported by literally everything. So we not just didn't went away from it, it became the golden standard for music. Like JPEG for photos. Yes, there are competitors like AAC (M4A), Opus, Vorbis, but they don't give big advantage for high quality music compression. For AAC it's about 25%.
@@Etcher
He's right though.
It's not about "replacing everything at once", but it's about getting some of your favourite in a CD format.
So in the first years is "new releases + some old one I want in CD too", then it was "new releases only".
Math is math, the decline in sales is automatic.
Other than that, piracy has been proven time and time again as a no factor in sales drop.
That's a legend that comes with the "you wouldn't download a car" campaign :)
The equation "you downloaded it, if you couldn't you would have bought it" is simply false.
Just yesterday I was at work (tech retail), flipping through CDs, finding albums to buy, then later putting them into my drive and listening...
I've recently started to get interested in CDs and started to rip CDs that my parents and other relatives have, and have downloaded tons of flac music from online to listen to better quality music than my MP3 collection.
i started using blu-rays for data storage, as 25gb and 128gb blu rays are still pretty decent for backups, and because its a "dead" medium i often find deals where they are actually cheaper per GB $ than HDDs, but seeing how HDD sizes are growing every year and last blu-ray upgrades where we got 100GB and 128GB blu-rays was in 2010 there is a lot of catchup too do
"When was the last time you used a CD?"
Me: "2 weeks ago"
Yeah that notion is very misleading. CD (and vinyl too) is well alive and there are many youngsters who like and buy them, and I say this as a young person myself. I was in a disc and record store a few weeks ago and saw many other people browsing who were clearly in the 16-30 age group!
I would answer 10 years, I'm relatively old, 70. I don't use any cloud and all my datas are on hard drives, of both kinds, mechanical and SSD.
@@raphanunu6912 Yeah, I see no issue with "private cloud" storage -- collections of data hosted, maintained, and available to yourself. But cloud providers? Pffff.. sure. I'll pay for it, but we can keep it all at your house. Yeah right.
@@raphanunu6912 I wish I had a tech savvy gramps like you.
Just used it today,i have an older car and i like the 2000"s interior design and i didnt want to change the radio to something newer,so i use cd to have that good sound quality. i even bought a computer case(from fractal design) that can hold cd writer and i make like 2-3 cd's a week for my car player :)
"When was the last time you used a CD or went to a physical music store?"
Literally yesterday. Found some great CD's and 2 vinyl records. I don't think I'll ever stop collecting music on physical media.
Exactly, dont know what he talking about.
Lol you guys get offended 😂
@@nfarotk Do you even know the meaning of the word offended?
@@nfarotk pointing out that they never really went away is not being offended
Right, but videos about physical media tend to attract physical media enthusiasts, so naturally these comments could create the false impression that there’s still huge demand for CDs. It’s most certainly a niche item like vinyl and cassettes
I could see something like this working really well in a format similar to minidisc.
Have a small, fully enclosed disc that you can carry around like a floppy disk. Reduced size means faster read/write times and easy portability, fully enclosed means it can function like tape storage.
You know, the real problem with a lot of the innovations to improve optical media is that they don't quite solve the problem in a way we actually kinda needed, which at the same time would probably be favorable for the manufacturers and recording companies too. A few of those problems is to do with material cost, packaging for shipment and store space, waste and recycling, and read and write speeds/responsiveness without changing consumer hardware all that much.
One of the solutions they passed up (all with the exception of one format in particular, which was AlphaDisc) was actually multi-level recording, which basically just used existing optical systems, but updated them to make data pits in the disc at variable levels rather than one. Paired this in tandem with using 8 cm. discs instead of the typical 12 cm. ones you could basically bring up read/write speeds, bring down manufacturing and material costs on the discs themselves and the packaging for them, and because they're smaller the store space and bulk shipping allows greater volume of units in the same amount of space as the usual 12 cm. discs. Plus recycling and waste material is lessened in terms of impact since you need less to make smaller discs and packaging for them and you could even extend this to end user drives and systems to make them more compact.
This was something I had for a while been surprised none of them picked up on, especially after they got to UltraHD Blurays that are basically quad-layer discs with pwm pitch recording, since then they could hold more content at smaller sizes and all they'd have to do is drop the larger sizes for lower capacity BDs (25-50 gig discs) and keep 12 cm. for the ones maximizing on space. Even HD-DVD had a multi-format spec that allowed multiple layers of the discs to be either DVD, HD-DVD, CD, or even BD to hold the same content all while making the disc universally compatible in a way, even if it costs slightly more to make since it cuts down on having to sell separate formats of the same content in different packaging altogether.
I guess that's kind of a sad thing though when they went in for digital with Apple and Microsoft pushing this at the forefront, as neither solution truly materialized and we ended up with increased landfill waste (for anything not recycled that is) and dying mediums that cost manufacturers quite a bit till a lot of them quit, leaving only a few in the world now (especially with Blurays as Sony is one of the few sole manufacturers for them to note, apparently.)
If they can scale this to full use, I'd say that there is a market for it. With all the privacy concerns around cloud storage, there is a very real market for this kind of, local, physical storage.
I'm kinda shocked that Blu Rays didn't become mainstays for all kinds of media. Instead, it was mostly used for consumer movies and tv show copies. Imagine if they put extreme lossless audio on Blu Rays.
They do exist. There’s a release of Yes’s Fragile that’s really good, for instance, and several versions of Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon.
Look up blu-spec CDs, they're CDs like blu-ray discs but readable in existing CD players. They're common in Japan where CDs are still the preferred music delivery method
SACD.
Rly? Bluray was an overpriced DVD and nobody wanted to make the upgrade. It didn't offer enough to be worth the investment
Your standard CD is already lossless audio, SACD which uses DVDs even has extreme (wasteful) sample rates.
Scratches was also one of the main problems of many using it. If using scratchproof surface is not a choice because it can add more to the price why not just protect it with a plastic container like the diskettes way back.
I love CDs, they last an eternity and are a perfect audio format. I really hope they'll make a come back, just as vinyl records did.
I think there's still hope for you enthusiasts. Just like hope the gramophone has become popular again; again from it's quality, so is there hope for CD's I think
They scratch so easily
@@ShaunChee1998 Thats the issue I always had. Digital media is best, as long as it has no crap DRM so I can handle the storage medium.
Last eternity says who? They're easly broken
@@nfarotk yeah you still have to take care of CD's. If you store them in a humid area / basement they can "rot" from the outside in, even if unscratched.
They aren't an indefinite storage, but they can last a long time in the right care.
Laughing about the cautions "This may be many years before it becomes a reality..." I remember somewhere around 5th grade seeing something in Popular Science magazine that they said would eventually revolutionize the world. It was the "LCD" and the displays that eventually became available became cheap and ubiquitous. By the time I bought my first CRT (the first one I paid for) sometime in the early '90s it was $500 - $600 for a 18" CRT display. And now here I sit in front of my 42" 4k display which I paid about $300 for.
That 42" is equivalent to 11" crt tho
@@tuxt7156
Not really. It's large enough to read unless you need cokebottle glasses, and, at 4k has about 10x to 50x the actual screen display area (your '11" CRT' was, at best, 480x240 or thereabouts in resolution -- and thus visual info display -- instead of 3840x2160).
Actual comparison of the screen sizes is more like a 15" to 20" CRT -- by the early 1990s there were 24" 1k CRT monitors and 35" Std-def TVs. I know, I had access to both.
CRT are better than 99% of LCD to this day. They were just more profitable to mass manufacture.
@@chuck948 From who's arse did you pull that gem? The only possible way you could honestly say "better" is in how long they lasted. In EVERY other respect, LCD is far superior to CRT. Every respect. You even named 1 way yourself, cheaper to manufacture.
@@Robert08010 nu uh
I was a DJ for 15 years and still play around and I'm gonna straight up say that I still burn my tracks on CD'S because the music quality is second to none. The more u compress music the high volume quality dramatically decreases and sometimes all volume levels the quality blows. Thanks for the extremely informative video Da Goggo. You're one person who makes videos that we can actually trust the information you're saying. You really do your research and if u don't know it u don't spread it. Thanks brother
There was already a 120 Tb optical disc in limited production several years ago. When the Israeli lunar lander exploded in 2019, it reportedly had one onboard. I know that they were a year or two old at that point.
Definitely a cool breakthrough. But for it to become commercially viable? Maybe another ten years with no roadblocks. Twenty if competition pays to keep it buried...
Remember Napster and Metallica? And now companies are plugged into your bank account, rather than you owning a CD, your renting music and movies infinitely 😢
Streaming works great for the vast majority of people. Only audiophiles and those weird paranoid off-the-grid libertarian guys are all that worried about forking over their credit card for basically unfettered access to all of recorded music for like 12 bucks a month. Given the number of albums I listen to every month on streaming, if I had to actually buy each of those I would be broke lol
@@pensivepenguin3000 I hear ya, and have no issues with streaming in general and I am no audiophile or anything. Just old and have collected so many cds/vinyls over time. I realized a couple of years ago that the majority of songs/albums I would listen too from Apple Music/Spotify etc I already own. So why am I wasting money on that. Plus one of my all-time favorite artists had pulled her entire catalog from all streaming services last Nov. So the only way I could listen to her is if I had it.
Oh yes. I remember the exact moment I stopped listening to Metallica.
BEER GOOD! NAPSTER BAD!
@@felinehermetica haha yup. let’s not forget, the Metallica song that people were downloading was “I disappear,” arguably one of their worst songs. So yeah Lars, maybe it’s not that people aren’t willing to pay for your music - it’s that people aren’t willing to pay for the shitty music you were making at the time
Bring back physical storage. The world needs this.
I even bought a CD recently and it took me back so many years ago. There was just something special about owning a physical copy and then being able to burn the songs onto iTunes aka Apple Music nowadays.
Seems like this could be really useful for database snapshots, even with the lower read/write speed. These backups require a lot of storage, but rarely need to be used.
I'm a movie collector with more than 3K movies and series, and I'd love to get a way to backup my collection, so they're secure long term. But it seems there's no 100% secure way of doing it, I'll risk malfunction and dead files over time.
Out of curiosity, have you looked into Tape Drive storage? Combined with rugged filesystems like ZFS to do online storage, that should be very close. Not sure what the error rate on tapes is though...
Buy 3 discs, one primary, one backup kept at home and one back up kept in a bank vault/lock box. Encrypt properly in case of theft. This is more or less 100% secure.
Millennium disk.
100gb M-discs would be an option depending on how you compress the video.
I presume that you have a NAS for your collection. The good NAS's generally have a way to protect against loss, such as snapshots and will also protect against bit rot if you set it up. And large HDD's for backup aren't so expensive that a collection like yours isn't worth spending the money to protect. My collection is closer to 1,000 plus some TV series and the cost of the HDD's to store it isn't so bad. A second, more basic NAS with drives is a simple and inexpensive backup solution.
This video created a lot of confusion. There is a big difference between stamped discs for mass manufactured consumer media and writable discs like this. I have worked at a Bluray production company and it gets really expensive stamping multiple layers, because you need to manufacture a stamper for every layer and the machines that can stamp multi layer discs are really big and complicated. This 100 layer disk is only for writing, no stamping and you wouldn't want to write mass market products to disks, no matter the layer amount, because that is way to slow. I'm sorry, but this is not going to be the next big optical disc format.
It's not going to be the next big optical disc format in the way that you think now. But if it can store 125 Terabytes, then why not simply use it as an external hard drive type system? Have a SSD for fast read/write stuff and then this as long term storage.
@@robthemodYT why not? speed. even a hard drive is blazingly fast compared to burning a disk, and there is no real way to increase that speed short of spinning the disk faster which has physical limitations, or adding in a second laser for dual writing which would double costs
Agreed, we need something that writes and reads as fast as SSD but with solid data integrity and millennial-plus longevity in archive.
@@oggilein1 The thing is, the most used long-storage format currently in use is LTO (Linear Tape Open). One disk of LTO9 has 18-45TB of storage, but, it can ONLY read 400 MB/s.
If they refine it so the speed is at the 100s of MB/s, it would be slow, yes, but, for long-term storage, where you need to make backups of whole server machines and dataframes, it is worth the wait.
Question, why bother to stamp it when you can just write on a dime?
I began buying CDs again, just a year ago. I certainly hope CDs come back.
I think they will but not as mainstream media. I see a CD market similar to the current vinyl market re-emerging for a number of reasons. Definitely see collectors moving into the CD market in the near future and prices going up.
I still have CDs, DVDs with RW capacity from 10 years ago, still works. I just putted them in that plastic case, and that same case somewhere lies and east dust(or its covered with dust) - i just take those CDs, and they works - in PCs, those DVD machines, mini-lines(that music box which can take cassetes and disks), TVs with a same ability to take CDs/DVDs (from side or back side)...still works. They just need proper case to be stored in be it those plastic ones or that with a finer zip - bith are good.
Hm, ultra transparent with 100 data layers / levels and tiny spots. Sounds like a one way ticket to write off a disc with a single scratch on the surface. I think these discs need to be put in a cardridge of sorts like for example Mini Discs, the PSP discs, diskettes, etc.
We've been using optical based media for cold/archive storage in data centers for about a decade now. The problem hasn't really been the storage density, but how fast you can read/write to something with that high density, as mentioned at the end. We already do many terabytes per cartridge. You have different types of storage for different types of access patterns.
Heck, I still use my DVD-Rs and don't intend to get rid of em. I don't trust cloud storage worth a damn. I'd love to see this new physical format take off.
DVDs are considered the least safe optical media tho, i would recommend switching over to blu-ray, they are 25GB and more anyway, M-disc bluray are even more resistant and can survive being submerged underwater and other things
+ modern burners like nero lets you add redundancy so depending on how much data space you are willing to sacrifice you can get lots of scratches and the data will read just fine
@@automatedrussianbot Price is a factor however, but thank you. ;-) Def. blu-rays are superior but it may be a bit before i can transfer my archives.
Bixby Snyder from Robocop 1987: I'd buy THAT for a dollar! (laughter ensues).
One of the greatest lines - regardless of context - ever uttered on film. I'll say this on a whim after some event happens and half the people get the refence and the rest are confused why I'd try and buy an experience for a dollar.
People always obsess over storage, but the real problem with optical discs are the read/write speeds. Not storage. Storage was never what made it become "obsolete." For video games, there's literally no reason they couldn't just ship multiple discs like back in the day for the few huge games. Physical media is dying in part because companies don't want to provide that option. They're trying to kill it. They easily could provide it if they wanted to.
What killed DVD was antivirus programs. Software corporations uses antivirus to find "viruses" on free alternatives for expensive software, until that alternative becomes so popular that they can't continue it any more and then they correct the "false alarm" from antivirus.
Ten years ago antivirus programs started abusing dvd media. They read multiple files at the same time making DVD speed to crawl. There is no reason to read dvd with abusive way other than alienate users from it.
I hope this comes back. I miss storing stuff on CDs. Everytime my harddrive dies I lose all my data and a piece of me dies because there was decades of data on it.
Maybe buy another drive and save your data there. In the IT we say - no back up, no pity. For this, i have four back up drives. My data is safe i think.
Physical media needs to make a return, I want to actually own my data and not be locked behind a subscription pay wall every month .
You could buy another drive and set up a RAID 1 configuration (it's not difficult, even I managed it all through Windows lol)
This mirrors your drive over two disks so if one fails, you don't lose the data.
Respectfully, I can't see this taking off. For those unaware, 20 years ago a similar idea was conceived with the Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD) which could hold 4TB versus the 50GB Blu-rays at the time. It never took off for the exact same reasons that plague this new CD technology but now this has to contend with streaming.
Perhaps it can also have a legacy CD layer that can be used for transitional period?
forget streaming, videos are not the best use case. flash storage has the issue of long-term storage. after a few years, especially with cheaper drives it tends to wipe itself. HDDs also have a longevity issue too 3-5 years spinning in a system with about 20 when out of it. CDs have less moving parts than a whole HDD. Less to go wrong. If this lasts longer than that, it'll be fantastic for archives.
The read speed of the new 200,000 gigabyte optical disk will be dog slow. Unacceptable, vs speed of SSD.
@@m-jq6cw "3-5 years spinning"
24/7 under 100 load. You mean. That was the conditions of that IBM study you are referencing. Tell me. Do you keep your external drives running 24/7 under maximum load?
@@DerekDavis213 HDDs are also slow compared to SSD, and people buy them because they are cheaper per TB, speed isn't everything.
plenty of content creators would love a CD where they could dump data, instead of owning a 3 ton server
If I could have my local storage pumped up to 200000 GB, and this to an affordable price, I would absolutely buy this. I’d spend a lot of money, I’m sure I’m not the only one.
You can already do it. Just buy 20 10-TB HDDs.
@@yuriy5376 yeah. But I’d prefer one CD 😄
Larger isn’t always better for archiving. It’s a lot more to lose if a disc goes bad, for example.
You can use multiple discs and sync them
@@BocusVeLucy true. For archiving I use dvd. And 4gb rars with pars for rebuilds if I lose up to a percentage of the set
m-disk and blu.rays use inorganic dye so they are way better for long term storage
DVDs were known to be the optical media who suffered the most bitrot if stored improperly, so i prefer blu-ray as they are 25GB - 128GB and overall better for long term storage
@@pikaskew if you use something like the NERO burner you can dedicate space not used on the disc for redundancy on the disc itself, providing another layer of protection
@@automatedrussianbot good advice…the more recovery options the better
One scratch = an entire folder of data disappearing
nope, unless it's a very deep scratch. the data stored in middle layer. the CD surface is transparent plastic sheet. if it scratch you can polish it.
Not with error correction
sometimes a folder contains 10TB of data
Yes they were a good idea on vellum paper but tissue wipe ideology.
Podría venir en un estuche especial, como los discos MO o los MiniDisc, así se previene ralladuras. Una lástima que no aplicaron la misma práctica al resto de formatos de discos, los harían mucho menos frágiles.
So which one is it? 1.6 petabit or 1.6 petabyte?
I was also confused, there is a very big difference between the two.
comparing: 1.6 petabits = 200 terabytes. And the cover says 200 000 Gb.
So i guess its petabits, which is a bad way of explaining data size in laymen terms.
They like using bits instead of bytes because they can boast an 8 times bigger number. In the real world, storage is always expressed in bytes.
It's a 200TB, forget the Peta.
Yes...but technically no.
Imagine if they used this research and applied it to consoles. Imagine being able to finally go back to plug-n-play. No more needing to install more data for games. I would love that.
Not gonna happen cuz games are always unfinished on release, lazy developers release half assed game and fix it with updates like day 1 patches
@@user-lj4ve4fh9ii laziness finds a way
i love hi-tech. cd´s and dvd´s are not affected by virus or electrical issues like hard drives. i had 20 years old cd´s and they are in good shape. original disks are made under policarbonated pressured material and every one is maded with a very low cost process.
I had a physics teacher in university who used to say, when teaching us about holograms, that CDs could become some massive storage devices if we could be able to make layers on them. Well, the guy was really on point.
Edit: that was in 1998
1998? there was already stories about dual-layer dvds being researched by then and by 2004 they were sold commercially, anyway the researchers updated their story since the video and the write speed is just as fast if not faster than a HDD
@@automatedrussianbot Man, and you should consider I am from Ecuador and the internet wasn’t too mainstream back then, we were just downloading songs and beginning to discover torrents 🥹those were the days! Hahaha
Yeah I remember wanting to buy 2sided disc but instead the consultant sold me 2layered one ತ_ʖತ @@automatedrussianbot
Fun fact: According to Joop Sinjou, Phillips' head of development of audio products at the time, the hole in the middle of the CD (and it's successors) was based on the Dutch Guilder "Dubbeltje", which was 10 (Dutch guilder) cents a the time and was the quickest decision that was made in the development process.
Some people also claim that the overall size of the disc was determined by the (then) size of a Heineken coaster, although I can't find a proper source to either confirm or dismiss this claim.
It is weird to imagine solid disks with no center. I suppose they would have been gripped by the sides, or sat ontop of a anti-skid plate?
Cursory research says that it's size was inversely proportional to the data that Sony wanted on it, which was allegedly Beethoven's entire 9th symphony.
@@pauldeddens5349 The vinyl record intvented by Emil Berliner in 1890s is a solid disc with no center, as well as Laservision discs. I'm not getting your point
@@mateuszorlinski7334 Im thinking a disk with no center mounting pivot point. Many Vinyls have pivot points in the center to rotate on. And all the Laserdiscs ive seen have cut out centers to pivot on as well.
@@pauldeddens5349 I don't think that anybody thought about something like this during the develepoment of CD - may parts regarding disc transport were adapted form Laservision
13:31 "ULTIMATELY, REALISTICALLY, IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS"
LMAO BROTHER JUST PICK ONE TRANSITION WORD XD
I agree. Please stop yelling, it’s disruptive.
YOU ARE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!
@@gorilladisco9108 but I am your public relations manager, so please take my advice. I have your best interest at heart.
There are so many pluses here if this technology can be made viable. I would say for all the "greenies" out there that think their files are in some "cloud" have no idea how much power is sucked up by these "data" centers and that alone should spur on development. Currently I cannot imagine this being an "individual" thing for a number of reasons but can see certain big companies and agencies being attracted to the archiving possibilities. Excellent vid! Thanks
Read/write speeds will always be the limiting factor. Better to focus research money on improving solid state memory.
I was also wondering how long it would take to write 200TB. But it is nice to know that they are still working on high-density long term storage.
maybe it is useful though for long term archiving data
@@LivingLinux we have archival LTO tape drives that can write 18TB of data in about 12 hours (1.5TB/h), so if this disk based medium can burn data to disk faster than that then it might see use for archival purposes, and with it being a disk accessing a file in the middle of it is much quicker compared to a linear tape based medium
It all depends on your usage case, there will always be a need for slow, but massive storage.
flash memory will lose its data if not powered on after a few years.
The first HDTVs set people back five figures also. These devs are probably thinking, "Hold my beer."
Just look at that 100TB SSD shown, obviously there are customers for such, so these new optical disks should have no trouble. Think Amazon Glacier storage etc.
A whole lot of people are still using CDs.
Along with the fact that many people still buy them, and there is a massive back-log of existing unused ones, along with the ability to make one's own, they're likely to be around a long time.
Somehow I always got peanut butter and jelly on my CD. I would put it in the dishwasher.
"When was the last time you used a CD or went to a physical music store?"
A month or two ago. Ton of music isnt on Bandcamp and Amazon likes to compress the music to hell. I end up buying the CD and then ripping it myself as a FLAC to use it for my car radio and PC.
I hit up my locally owned and operated record stores as often as I can! I pick through the CD racks at Goodwill, too. Finally getting back at Columbia House!
comparing a CD for data storage is bad, considering people used 25GB - 128GB blu-rays for data storage for a long time, it also has way faster write speed than CDs
The "nano CD", a dime-sized CD developed by MIT in 2000 utilizing silicon needle boasting a 500 GB capacity would have a better shelf life and mean time between failure than any contemporary multilayer optical solution.
I would use it in a heart beat if it was as convenient as CD's were. There is sooo much data that I would rather preserve if I had the option, and I think we would be surprised at how many people would switch from storing online to on a disc if they were that big.
BD XL 100GB has not taken off due to cost, as its cheaper to use USB sticks, SD cards.