I've always seen insurance in 4 different categories for future... (or at least how I would be ok with it..somewhat) 1- Ship bought in game (no insurance) - Blows up - Gone, buy it again. 2- Ship bought in game ( in game insured) - Blows up - Replaced with insurance that costs UEC either monthly or yearly. 3- Ship bought in Store (real monies LTI) - Blows up - Replaced forever and CR sends you a thank you letter 4- Ship bought in Store (real monies Less than LTI) - Blows up - if insurance runs out, Gone until you use UEC at a lower rate insurance to retrieve it from limbo state. This doesn't include the elephant in the room that we may end up paying real monies for insurance like a subscription. Its really all a guess.. my brain hurts.
I have both one LTI and one non-LTI and this seems fair. A caveat could be that you should never get stranded as one prior poster mentioned, there should be ways of getting around independent of the ship itself (like passenger services maybe?)
You missed something. You will still have to pay a fee to make an insurance claim. This is on top of the cost of insurance and will always be payable. Expediting is then extra, as well as any insurance add ons. For none insured pledge ships I'd like to see them returned for nothing but only after a period of time, like say a month.
You're talking as if everything was open to be hashed out at this point... That is not the case: CIG made definitive contractual clauses, in order to convince people that buying game assets for cash would benefit them long term. One clause plainly guaranteed, that cash bought items will ALWAYS be returned to the buyer. The only satisfactory option has been to bring out newer models after the game goes live, so if you wanted the updated XYZ ship, you'd now buy that for game currency, and these ships would decay over time, until you just had to buy another in game curreny.
@@Pharesm Exactly. thats a pickle actually. Kickstarter was suppose to fund the game and give ships to people with perks like this. But they kept going (which is fine because it was the only model of financing that was working). But now that everyone has literally bought ships and not just donation, the legal side must be able to play within this rule. Imagine playing a game that you bough and when you die, you have to play a second game that you also bought to reunlock the first game. With real money, it gets complicated. Thats why they need to change the financial model ASAP, but they need to deliver some live service and content first which we don't really have, so yeah...
I feel people would make the effort to work towards getting their ships back if the game wasn't so fucking unplayable. That shouldn't be the case in a theoretical release.
The server stability is disastrous. During the daycare rally the host, tried to get us in ONE server that was stable. We all 30kd 23 times. And finally when racing, 1 hour into the Daymar course, our server 30ks. So everyone racing in that server got disqualified. Took 6 hours to just begin the race for us. Complete waste of time.
@@L-vs7fp The main reason I told my wife I wouldn't participate in the rally. It is such a bummer when you're trying to do something that requires prepping and communication the servers just say nope.
Does anyone remember when Ark Survival Evolved was laggy and buggy and on full release it was just barely less slightly and buggy? Ya. Stop coping. Star citizen will be the same. 10 years later and they’ll be dropping Star citizen survival ascended. And it will still be unplayable.
Answer is simple, you cannot ask people to spend REAL money for 200$+ pixel ships with the risk of losing them in game permanently. This would mean INSTA-DEATH or PERMA-DEATH for Star Citizen.
My understanding is they've hinted that you won't actually lose your ship, however I think saying you cannot fly the ship until you purchase more insurance in game (if it runs out) is completely acceptable. In real life if your car doesn't have insurance it doesn't instantly get repossessed but you also can't legally drive it. Personally, I like the idea of insurance to help prevent people from continually crashing their ships and be able to reclaim them over and over without issue. At least there will be a cost involved if people choose to do that.
you mean the game that has been billed as having a permadath system? and that specifically says you can and will lose things when failing? its simple.. insure your ship withingame cash.. there. you wont lose your shit.
They also said the price of insurance will be roughly the same as refueling/restocking/repairing, so if you can afford to refuel, you most likely can buy insurance.
There's a massive difference between being someone with one ship and someone with four ships when it comes to insurance timers. The guy with one ship is basically stranded by a long cooldown but the guy with four barely cares.
Is he though? The guy with one ship likely doesn't fly something like a Carrack as their daily driver and therefor doesn't have to wait very long or pay very much to expedite the insurance. The guy with one ship is more often than not going to have something around $100 or less. And the guy with a $500+ ship who has to wait a long time for that ship to come back, likely has a couple of smaller ships. At least that's what I'd assume. I might be wrong though.
People with just one ship should maybe get a cheap rental (like a really basic, rusted down heap of crap) to do basic missions until the timer has cooled down
Or they could drop a beacon for LFG to make money. It might not be what you think Star Citizen was going to be, but eventually you can play this game, have fun and earn money without having to fly your or any ship
Court judgements exist regarding virtual property, its ownership and, since virtual items are now considered equal to physical items under law, criminal actions. One judgement ruled that a game developer did not own the virtual items in its game world. The Judge ruled that such items were the property of players once acquired and that this was true regardless of whether they had been bought with real money or acquired through in-game mechanisms.
I don't think anyone who purchased a ship using real money should lose it, however I love the idea that they require insurance for you to legally fly it in game. The insurance should be cheap enough that if it runs out you can easily earn enough to go buy more for your ship but I think it's a cool mechanic and bit of realism that you have to keep track of it and if it runs out there is a penalty. Maybe you could fly in some unregulated parts of space without it but can't land in any UEE systems unless you have it?
so.. again. jsut go back to teh VERY DETAILED insurance explanation from cig . jsut because its from years ago doesnt mean that its changed. SHI just covered the base hull and loadout. lti is a form of SHI its term just doesn't expire. thats the ONLY difference. if you want to cover the upgrades to the ship, you will need to purchase (ingame) an additional type of insurance to cover the non stock components. and then tehre is cargo insurance wich will cover cargo. SHI will be covered everywhere. while upgrade and cargo insurance will only be good for systems and locations with certain security ratings. the higher the security ratings coverage the higher the cost of the insurance.
I remember CIG and CR stating that an Origin ship would take much longer to claim, than say a Drake ship, as the components plus workmanship are much different .
For me the easiest option would be to just drop the lose you ship part instead for the time of insurance you have for example 6 months you either pay no or a reduced ingame price to claim you ship. Afterward you need to pay more or need to pay something, but your ships isn’t lost it just remains unavailable to spawn until you pay something. I think that’s a nice balance between risk and reward for those who got LTI.
Insurance and claiming times are not the problem. I would not even care that the claim time for a 1 seater ship go up to 20 minutes. The problem was never the claim time.. the problem is the dead time... What i would do during those 20-30 minutes... Cig Said 4 years ago that very soon they would implement missions aroud stations, in cities.. reparing stuff... Obviously 4 years after and those missions are nowhere to be seen but nah, the claim time never was the problem... But Hardcore player need to understand that Star Citizen will never be successfull game with periods of 20-30 minutes for the player doing nothing... its a game you wanna play a game... so ok raise the claim times but put stuff in the game to make ppls wait example working, pool tables in bars, arcade machine with real small mini game in them, small mission like repairinf a vent or things like that.. so the claim time will not feel just like waiting but will be a reason to expereince other gameplay the game have to offer.
@@Ultrajamz That, or what i said, things to do on stations and cities outside of just buying stuff. I mean the is arcade machine everywhere and there is pool table and air hockey tables.. i hope one day they will work. CIg said they will but it was back in 2016
19:55 "Nowhere did they say that you would lose that ship" It says so on the official FAQ for insurance on the RSI website: "The way to ensure that your property will not be lost forever when these events happen is through insurance policies for your ships." (I'd provide the link, but UA-cam ate my comment when I did that and it's trivial to find)
Ships purchased with cash should all have LTI. That or the ability to insure destroyed ships and pay the insurance price to get it returned. That being said, the current claim timers are just ridiculous. Very small ships should take 3 days to replace. arrow, gladius, snubs, mustang etc. Medium ships should be approximately a week, and large ships could be multiple weeks. Of course you're free to PAY UP if you want this process expedited, and replacement times should depend on parts availability. If you're in a system that has a fully completed ship available for purchase, same day replacements should be available. If no ships are available even in nearby systems and everything has to be made from scratch then you're going to be looking at the full replacement schedule.
I can’t remember where it was told, but some years back it was said that it would be claimed but the ship will only be the hull + factory components. (So no fuel , ballistic ammo etc) And that cig was looking into other insurances as cargo and modified components. Those you had to buy ingame Also, even if you would lose your ship due to having 1 ship and the insured ship time is over, you’d still could play on other people their ships. As most ships are multiplayer ships anyways
I just sorta always assumed that if you don't pay for insurance (UEC), you don't get your lost ship back until you do (perhaps with an UEC late fee attached or rep downgrade to insentivize consistent payments). I also thought I heard that hull insurance and component insurance are seperate, meaning that LTI just means you never pay for hull insurance, but still must pay for component insurance if you want your upgrades back. I assumed this insurance would also work in the same way I described for hull insurance.
Like all things in SC they just need to follow a real world process. There needs to be a console or in game Web page that shows you insurance policies for each ship. These could be linked to the game economy in the way real insurance premiums are. So as a player, you would register your ship, set an excess fee and the game could set a value for the ship, depreciated by the mileage and condition. It would then give you a yearly or monthly payment scheme. It should also be possible to drive uninsured, although should be illegal. When the worst happens and your ship is stolen (never to return) or destroyed, the player would file an insurance claim. Here I think we should be reimbursed not with a new ship, but credit to buy the new ship, in fact any ship you can afford. Throw in what is probably inevitable and unthought of at this time, that we may get the option to sell second hand ships to other players. LTI needs to be honoured, but to balance maybe make a very long timer when that ship is destroyed. Like a week for a small ship and a month for a larger one. Would be great if to eventually have the option to take passenger flights to locations, so even if you are without ship you can get around. That may even be someone's preferred method of travel, the protection of a fully fielded npc ship. Food for thought.
I agree with everything but the ridiculously long timers. New players having to wait a week for their Avenger Titan to return to them is a deal-breaker - the same could be said about me too, and I've been playing for years.
@@lawsonterwilliger4061 well, what about there being an in game credit cost to speed up the process? Huge ships should obviously cost a lot more to expedite when holding LTI. I hear what you are saying but it's going to be a problem if you can claim, claim, claim LTI ships without a consequence. There will be no jeopardy and will ruin the game for those with and without a fleet of LTI ships. I've only got one ship myself, a cutlass black with LTI. Cost me about 150 around 3 years ago, I did get the LTI with the thought in the back of my head that at least I'll always be have a a ship thats can't be destroyed or taken away or lost in resets, but maybe I'd be happy with the fact that I'd never need to pay for ingame insurance, that alone would suit my more casual play style. I don't overly enjoy having to do chores to maintain my game but I definitely expect to do some. Not having to worry about insurance would be great. It just occurred to me that LTI could entitle the holder to a platinum insurance, this could mean that depending on the ship, a loaner ship could be granted while the ship timer decreases. They could even be a little beaten up, could be interesting? In the end, I think we will all end up with a fleet of ingame purchased ships, faction ships etc. I imagine most players will purchase one ship to enter the game and then grind them rest of the fleet. More food for thought and thanks for the reply.
A week for a small ship is ridiculous. Remember, the majority of players only pay for their starter ship. Now imagine them having to wait an entire week to be able to play again. If SCs rep isn't bad enough now, it would be with this system
0:40 This will be the unsolvable issue this game will have, and CIG will have to pick how they want it and go with that. There will never be an eye-to-eye with Care Bares vs. Murder Hobos, ... ever. People are just different, and want different experiences from casual to hard-core, and no one is really wrong, but to make a game world that both play styles can live side by side.... no game has done it yet and satisfied its player base, and I don't really think SC will be any different. CIG has to do it the way they want, and the rest will have to learn to live with it or pick a different game. This also wanders into the lands of player behaviors, and well, plan for the best, but expect the worst.
Non LTI Ships should just have an insurance option.. pay insurance x dollars for stock ship.. pay x dollars for ship with upgrades installed at destruction.
I like the idea of the 24-hour claim timer where if the components get salvaged, they get replaced with stock. Ships with insurance should have that automatically, and cost less to get back, versus ships w/o ins. cost drastically more to get back, and come with stock parts only. This would also allow them to make some type of purchase-able "extended warranty" insurance, that could be paid for with in-game aUEC/UEC either in one payment or in installments.
I think you make very reasonable points and as Farrister stated: this topic is very polarising. I have all my ships (except an upgraded starter) with LTI, for no "extra" cost than they would've been with less insurance, actually on the contrary, most were cheaper for I used simple CCU chains to get an LTI base to the ship I wanted, but I wanted to get the most out of that system as possible (whatever it'll turn out to be). Regarding the components: I too am hoping that it'll be tied to reputation; imagine having to do missions for Covalex to get your rep up to buy a higher grade industrial component or you'll have to work with the local military (or UEE) to get enough rep for grade A military components (or their respective blueprints). So although I'm your average gamer dad and bought my way towards some ships, I'm all for incentives to play or even grind when the loops are diverse enough
They need to give an option. separate insurance. If you have a ship that cost 2mil and have 400K in upgrades and 400K cargo in it, you can claim for all of it at a certain percentage or just some of it. Like claim just the ship and stock parts for a low amount with a moderate timer, but if you want to have all your upgrades and stored guns/armor on it then its like 10% of the cost of those items with a time increase related to the cost increase. The more costly, the longer the timer. If you lose cargo, you can insure that cargo for some ships and pay to restore the cargo as well. So, if your profit margin is big enough you will still make money or at least not lose a lot.
I'm 36. I have a wife and 2 children. I have a full-time demanding job. I play games to relax. I used to be into very hardcore games, but I'm less into it as my time becomes more scarce and valuable. I may not be able to play this game if it ends up being a life simulator.
So how it works in EVE is you build a ship, put modules on it, buy an insurance policy for it whos cost depends on the value of the ship, and that insurance policy covers a portion of the market value of your ship (up to 80%) at the time of putting insurance on it. This plan lasts for x days and after that you have to reinsure the ship. When your ship is destroyed, you recieve the payout. This means if its stolen you dont get anything. The conversion of USD to PLEX is dependent on real world markets. The conversion of PLEX to ISK is dependent on in game markets. Both are fairly stable but susceptible to gradual inflation.
why not have like 3 types of insurance. with two subtypes probably. the subtypes being with self involvment or without. and then one insurance for the base ship, one for the components you registered by going in person into the insurance office, and one for the cargo you bought, however that might happen
A simple long term trick: make the insured ships just stock-item ships, but also have the ships have relatively low ingame cost to buy. And have a relatively poor performance with stock items. But offer to upgrade the ship to a higher component level in the spawn-hangar that is payed by ingame money or using components from the players storage.
Imagine you've just bought the yacht and you go to get the ship at the space station that doesn't appear in a hangar but rather by docking, then someone out of nowhere hits your ship and it explodes before you even get in it but you still don't have insurance so you lose the ship and have to buy it again. If these insurance systems where this potential risk of losing what you buy in-game or in the store, it will make everyone only pilot small and low-risk ships for those who don't buy in the store, and those who have ships with LTI are the ones who will dominate, it will be like those MMORPGs where the level gets so high that either you spend hundreds of dollars on a ship with LTI or you grind for a LONG time until you reach a level where you're not worried about losing ships or items. You can compare it to E.V.E online, where it can take months or even years to reach a level where you would consider losing something acceptable. New players may not have the same mentality because the risk of losing something and replacing it is much longer and more difficult. Even more so in SC, where they want to apply this Tarkov approach, where the consequences of loss are greater than the gain. Now, anyone can buy a C2 or a Vulture in the game and make easy money. Imagine this in a game with more than 100 players, where the potential risk is greater, where players who want to screw you over can appear. They don't even need to shoot you. They can simply buy an Aurora and torpedo you.
I was thinking; even if your ship has no insurance, if you got it with real money, you'll get it back, but it may take some time, ie: the next update and/or build time (based on size), what ever is longer? If you got it with real money and it's insured, you'll get it back sooner than stated previously or you could grind for it and get it faster (hopefully with components) than either and insurance will refund the cost (minus paperwork fees / 1 -5%). Insurance will only cover the ship as originally sold, ie: without customization (upgraded components, weapons, etc...). If you grinded for a ship and it had no insurance... well start grinding, but you'll likely need to also grind for the components (stock or custom).
Insurance in real life insures your car's stock value based on dealership price. Not sure how they do it for current aftermarket parts, but being able to insure them buy getting your ship price re-evaluated by the insurance company and paying extra, would make sense in-game. I think CIG should add a ship re-evaluation feature to the insurance company. A type of save-state of your ship's current loadout, that gives the player their exact ship in the state it was last "saved" by the insurance protection.
To me, insurance should at the most hardcore level just give you a chance to not lose components and cargo. As to how that works, there's many ways it could work but here's the best way (the tarkov way but better). When your ship is blown up and you claim your insurance, a mission is generated. You get a new default ship "immediately" with default components. Only people with a good level of reputation with the insurance profession can take up the mission. It will give the details of the location and components of the ship + the number of SCU of cargo (without stating the contents if you, the insured player, has chosen so). The scavenger has to retrieve the components and cargo and deliver them to a location, they will get payed a bit more than they would for selling the items directly but as I said it requires rep. The insurance company sends you a message where you can choose which components to reuse and which to replace, but only common (sold somewhere) components can be replaced with new ones. If you choose to replace a component, you can do that without having recovered the component. Finally, the Insurance Company delivers a cargo crate with all the components to your hangar. If the insurance company detects continued fraud when recovering the ship, you will get a fine and eventually lose your insurance and lose reputation as well as possibly get banned from getting certain insurance levels or any insurance at all with that or other companies. There should be different levels of insurance (LTI and current insurance times being at the highest level by default). S - You can always replace common components free of charge. Rarer components will be repaired for you free of charge. Destroyed non common components will give you a partial refund when recovered. Insurance covers systems of any security level. A - You can always replace common components but pay a fee if the original wasn't recovered. Rarer components can be repaired at a discount when receiving the new ship. Requires an extra payment when the ship has been destroyed in a high risk zone (pyro). B - You can always replace common components but pay a fee if the original wasn't recovered. Requires an extra payment when the ship has been destroyed in a high risk or low security zone. C - All the recovered components go to the Insurance company. You get a new ship with a default setup for a small fee. Requires an extra payment when the ship has been destroyed in a high risk or low security zone or in combat. Additionally, there should be some options to add to each insurance for example: Insurance to have a partial refund of the cargo SCUs recovered when the insurance is claimed based on the contents. I don't know, something like that.
I think a pretty easy middle ground would be. If you have insurance, you have the option to pay to expedite or wait out the timer. Exactly how it’s now. If you don’t have insurance you HAVE to pay aUEC to start the timer to get your ship back. And then you HAVE to wait the claim time. You don’t get to choose. Both parties lose components.
Here's my suggestion: EVERY ship, whether purchased in-game or with real currency, should have a VIN (GUID). If that ship has insurance and it gets damaged, you should pay a deductible and the insurance should cover anything above that amount. The current system of "claiming a ship" whenever we want to would just go away - the insurance company would issue a contract any SRV pilot could grab to come get the damaged ship and tow it to the closest repair station. All insurance should be "replacement cost" including any components in the ship. If the ship is destroyed with insurance, you should pay your deductible and the ship should be replaced in a short time delay like we have today, while the insurance company salvages any remnant of the old ship (this could also be done via a salvage contract and potentially a security contract to protect the salvagers). Any theft of a component from an insurance-owned ship should be an immediate crime stat in a monitored system. Any time a ship is destroyed WITHOUT insurance, if it was bought with in-game currency, it's just gone, and the wreck and components become fair game for any salvagers. If it was bought with real money, it would be available again (with stock components and weapons) in your hanger after 24h or 48h. This isn't realistic in-game, but would completely prevent any kind of lawsuits or negative press that would hurt CIG or the SC reputation, which is more important. Essentially this model would incentivize purchasing timed insurance separately (with real money or in-game money), stimulate towing, salvage, and escort/protection missions, and protect CIG from the ridicule and most likely lawsuits that would come from letting real-world purchases be forever lost in-game.
Here's how to add a game Loop for insurance. You put a claim in to get your ship back, the game puts out a mission that you cannot accept to do something with your ship. Maybe a salvage Mission or something else that might be going on. If it was a cargo ship in the game detects it still has cargo on it, the mission could be go pick up that cargo and deliver it somewhere else. If someone takes and completes the mission you get all of your modules back. The hard part would be coding the game to determining the stat of your ship and location. This would allow the game to give you the ship with base loadout at any time. Then a window for the mission, to get your upgraded modules
@14:30 I think you might be referring to the Spectrum post by Azme-CIG that was initially put up in gold text (official) but pretty quickly retracted to white text, so she spoke above her pay-grade there.
Honestly, we really should make sure components are a significant in game expense, especially as you get to fancier ones...and make them not covered by insurance (or at least not without some market value based fee). That way we have some kind of loss mechanic to drive the economy of the game. The biggest concern with LTI, and insurance in general, that i see is that if it is left to cover everything you end up in a state of endless accumulation. A game like this needs a counter to that. I see a strong one being having decent variance in components so that they are worth chasing, and then loss of components, or even the cost of components (say if your insurance requires you to pay market prices to replace them with yoir ship) could be an effective tool in keeping the game fresh.
I like the idea of losing Components. That would give much more gameplay to salvaging weapons and components from NPC ships and stockpiling them at your base/hangar for when you need an upgrade/repair.
Why not do a middle ground? insurance will cover the stock ship in however long it takes for each ship, components that aren't ripped from the old ship are returned around 24hr later. This way you aren't prevented from just buying new components and flying the ship anyways, but you also don't necessarily lose the components you had if they aren't taken.
I agree with you that there is no happy ending with insurance. No matter what they go with someone is going to be upset. But with things seeming to ramp up they need to address it soon as its going to be more relevant sooner rather then later.
I think the best solution is to look at a twist on the way a game like GTA5 handles vehicle ownership. I don't think people should lose any ships permanently whether bought with in-game currency or real money. It doesn't have to be realistic. At the end of the day its a video game and the GTA car ownership system is actually pretty good for all players on the pve or pvp side. You have a list of ships that are in your "garage" or "hangar" and those ships are ships that you own. Whether with in-game currency or with real dollars. If your ship blows up with insurance, you pay a small UEC fee for delivery or something and then wait out the claim timer. If it is uninsured, you will have to re-purchase insurance for that ship and pay a substantially larger fee and wait out a longer claim timer. If you have custom equipment on the ship you can choose to pay significantly more per month/quarter/half/whatever to insure those items. If they are looted then you receive a small amount of UEC as compensation. If the parts are not looted you get those parts back. If your ship is destroyed while uninsured, you will receive your new ship completely stock no matter what after paying the additional fees and waiting out the longer claim timer. If an unlawful player destroys your ship, if they ever go to prison with the crime of destroying your property still on your record, you receive UEC equal to the insurance cost of claiming your ship. The imprisoned player can choose to pay out the insurance fee costs from their UEC wallet or have time added to their sentence proportional to the cost of the claim fee (ie. more time for blowing up larger and more expensive ships). This makes prison more punishing for destroying property, which would encourage people to pirate ships without just blowing them which would lead to more emergent gameplay. It would at least somewhat help the issue of murder-hobos in-game. And you now have something invested in whether or not the person who wronged you is ever brought to justice before they can clear their crimestat. You may even want to pay an experienced bounty hunter to chase this person down to recoup the significant cost/time of claiming your 890, reclaimer, idris, whatever.
I think any ship purchased with real money should also be claimable in game even when insurance expires. Maybe the incentive should be while insurance is active you also get components back. - So LTI you get ship back with all components. - No LTI once insurance expires you just get stock ship back unless you paid for additional in-game insurance.
The ship components issue is simple. It should depend on how you acquired them. Purchasing ship components in-game should just assume an insurance fee is included in the component's UEC price. But if you steal/salvage the components (so logically there would be no record of you ever owning them) then they are either lost with the ship's destruction, or can be insured separately in advance with an additional fee (payable through mobiglas hopefully).
The case law states a replacement/refund would be possible if the replacement cost is disproportionate to the value of the item or if replacement would take unreasonably long. I believe we waive that right though with the EULA.
When insuring a ship, the non-stock weapons and components could be also insured at extra higher cost. This should be an option, and give players the choice if they want to spend more insuring all non-stock items. Instead of outright losing a ship (whether bought ingame or with real money), the cost to get it back if not insured should be like triple of what the insurance would of been, or something along these lines as long as it stays cheaper than buying the ship again in game, and the wait time is much longer. If they add "legendary" weapons/components that can only be found, these should be lost forever, or at the very least make it very VERY expensive to insure these.
They need to treat it like car insurance. You don't just get an exact duplicate of your car back. You get money in the amount of the value of the car, and you have to go buy another one. In terms of LTI, you get a token so you can go to the ship dealer, and get another of the same model of ship. In game purchasable insurance, you get the value in credits. I feel like this would add that sense of loss to backers, without us feeling ripped off. If the ship blows up, its a process and a half to get it back. But we DO get it back, albeit without the upgrades weve done to it.
at the end of the day its a game... if after some sort of "release" milestone and insurance is in place, IRL $ bought ships should always have some sort of way to recover. Maybe it should be something like a once a year or x number of month(s), with very long wait period. But imagine your power goes out while you took your ship out for a quick ride after insurance expired (not that you should, but you theoretically CAN).... Now i think CIG's policy is unclear for two reasons... 1. They don't know for sure and 2. Peoples' current perception of how insurance could work is driving the FOMO on the limited Life time / long durance insurance ship packages, which means they don't want to stop the influx of money
What about paying in-game money to reinstall each of the components and refill gun and armor racks at cost + fees (simple % of total) for install, plus increasing waiting times to reclaim your ship if these options are selected. This fixes it for all parties as far as I can see. Especially if money is becoming more scarce, or prices are on the rise.
Presumably, if crafting is going to have much of an impact, the game needs to take items out of circulation. Thus loosing components on death would make sense
I think that there should be an interest terminal where you can buy loss equipment for the first 24 hours at 10% of its value, at 50% of its value after the first 24 hours. I think that way there is still some risk but you're not completely debilitated after a single death in an expensive ship.
In the ancient times insurance was suposed to be separated at least to hull, component and cargo which all were to be obtained separately. Hull insurance covers the hull and stock components and LTI is hull insurance. It was promised that it would be practically impossible to take off without hull insurance. Components, and cargo could be insured, but it would not cover high risk systems or there would be risk based cost. Also the delay to get stuff back from insurance was suposed to be economy based so rare/expensive stuff would be far slower to reclaim, also repeated claims would slow the insurance fulfilment. Furthermore completing specific missions/helping economy could speed up the claim. Ofc. This comes from ancient communications/people long since departed from CIG, so your guess is as valis as mine.
I assumed (maybe naively so) that you would just have to pay for insurance with UEC (after the bundled insurance expires) in the same way you do IRL - a recurring small payment for cover, with some percentage of the ship value to pay when you need to claim. This would be one of many money sinks, most likely.
They stated this a long time ago now.. The idea was to be able to have your destroyed ship towed to a junkyard where you can then pay to repair it. You wouldn't lose your ship entirely without insurance. You'd just have to put in more effort to get it back.
I would be happy with something as follow: LTI: your stock hull and components, no upgrades covered LTI + ingame fee: Everything covered as modded, FULL SHIP back with everything customized as it was. Timed insurance 2/3/4/6/12/120months: Stock HULL during the covered time Timed insurance + Ingame fee: FULL coverage like the LTI + fee. Uninsured ship: A penalty for insurance value, or maybe an uninsured ship could be pulled out of ASOP untill the insurance fee is paid for.... being it a lower value for stock hull or a full value of insurance for FULLY COSTOMIZED. I think the uninsured ship not being able to pulled out of ASOP its a better solution for the problem of maybe losing it.
I see a couple big problems. 1. Gankers - this is gonna make people mad. If you're trying to leave Seraphim and someone kills you as you leave the hangar, and you have to rebuy upgrades, that really sucks. Right now, I don't mind them. It's a game loop that frustrates people, but it isn't *that* bad. It encourages player bounty hunting and teamwork across the server. I can get in my C2, charge shields in the hangar, and be on my merry way past em. I could even go get a fighter, come back, and try to get em. All good. If people had to wait a day and re-buy upgrades because they dared to leave the station they spawned in, that sucks. Sure, they could server log if they k ow ahead of time, but we know CIG doesn't really want people doing that too much. 2. The way logging works. It really sucks that if you have an emergency and have to turn off the game, you have to claim your ship wherever you spawn if you don't have feasible means to go get it, or if someone kills it while you are going to get it (if you can actually remember where it is and find it). It already sucks that you have to land on planet (if you have a bed) or fly to a city/station and park to conveniently have access to your ship when you log back on. Add a super long timer and component re-buys to that, and that is really un-fun. This is a game, after all.
I feel like if you salvage or "sell" your salvage claim then you would need to repurchase your components via a debt. Your salvage claim would "earn" more via the components and scraping/salvage, but standard users would just claim their ship back with all components. Just thinking about IRL buying your totaled vehicle back after the claim that you could then sell for parts or rebuild being the claimants choice.
There is a massive assumption that uninsured ships that can’t be reclaimed are lost but what if the ship became a hull that then requires repair and this costs part of the value of the ship if you pay to get it done or costs time and resources if you do it yourself? And if you didn’t want to participate in this loop you could pay to insure your ship in game? Then you have the money sink AND the gameplay. The other Elephant in the room is that ships like the Pioneer can’t have LTI where ships with a much lower value can which is nonsensical.
I really think that before they can address insurance directly CIG needs to address the reasons we claim, this primarily covers the login/logout flow but also starmap/markers etc right now if you are in deep space and hit alt f4 then that's a guaranteed claim as you are teleported back to station, this is silly, we should return to the same position we logged out in regardless of how we logged out (unless someone killed us in the interim, then a respawn) if the login flow was fixed so we always return to the position we left then that would take care of a load of insurance claims the next step is to give us a method of moving ships between stations. e.g if my ship is stored at orison, but i'm at po, then give me a move button, make the move function take 2-3x longer and cost auc, but i shouldnt be claiming it.... then we also need robust maps and markers so we actually have a hope of recovering ships from a known location, and even npc shuttle services to facilitate this. of course we still have a load of bugs that cause ships to be in an unusable state, so those need to be addressed.. but the goal of these changes should be to disallow insurance claims for ships that are able to be retrieved via other gameplay mechanics. I think that once we are no longer claiming our ships due to these design oversights then some actual thought could be put into how insurance should work on the subject of levels of insurance, i think all the current insurances should be hull + stock components insurance, but we should have the option of paying an in game fee to increase that to have our ship delivered with our modifications restored. (within reasons, only commonly available ones) this could be done in several ways, 1. you have the components in your inventory, so they are taken from there and fitted to your ship automatically for a small fee and time delay 2. the components are available in the location you are claiming, so you automatically buy replacements at a reduced cost and fit them for a larger fee and larger time delay 3. the components are not available in the location, so the fees/delays go up considerably, or you are prompted to collect your ship from another location 4. the components are not available for sale anywhere, in which case you can opt to have the ship delivered with that component omitted or as stock the intention of this suggestion is not to continue with free replacements, but also to avoid the quantum citizen shopping spree gameplay that would otherwise ensue if we were forced to travel to rebuy every component from 10 different shops each time we make a whoopsie.
My take is : - Real money ship + insurance = you lose nothing. Same system of what we have right now with obvious balancing. - Real money ship without insurance = long time to get it back. For exemple 24h for a C1 or 1 week for a capital ship. - In game money ship + insurance = you lose nothing. Same system of what we have right now with obvious balancing. - In game money ship without insurance = you lose everything. For pirates, they can't insure their ships so CIG can do an "insurance like" thing based on reputation with pirate factions, and with longer waiting time to retrieve a ship. A balancing of this system can allow players to use their real money ship too, without the fear of losing everything. Then there's in game premium insurances that players can purchase with uec to insure loadout and cargo. This will be a different insurance and if you don't have it, then if your ship get destroyed, you will retrieve it "stock". These insurances will not be available for pirates.
IMO LTI should be for stock ships ONLY and there should be additional extra insurance purchasable in game for the after market upgrades, cargo, equipment on board etc.
its just like real life insurance...if you have valid insurance on your vehicle. Then its going to behave like the sytem we have now. However, if your insurance runs out, you will just have to pay a large sum of UEC to get the ship back. The ship is not going to be "LOST". The only question i really have is if you will be able to purchase additional insurance like LTI .....in-game with UEC
i live in switzerland, out here its straight up illegal to drive an uninsured car.. maybe just say you get your ship back as soon as you pay the insurance and until then its not gonna be brought to a hangar?
Yeah, even as someone who did the "buy rather than grind" thing, I WHOLLY expect the replacement to come stock. If you got some rare alien cooler that's unique, well...maybe you should have been more careful, then?
I think what they will need to do to make this viable for those with one, or no ships is to have more content to do in the cities to enable the players to make the cash to either a) insure the ship again or b) buy a new ship to start a content loop again.
I would argue that the standpoint of "you don't really lose that ship, you just have to spend the ingame money to rebuy it" is fundamentally flawed. Rebuy is literally buy again. As all players can purchase the ship ingame, this would seem (to me) to be a unrelated mechanic to the pledge store purchases. Meaning the capacity to purchase a ship ingame is completely unrelated to a real money purchase. A complicated issue to be sure.
In the UK my insurance went up 33% this year even though no accidents… 🎉 I want component loss on ship death / stealing. I like the idea of anything taken is now stock on next claim time. I also feel insurance should be paid in excess to protect components and cargo. I really want to know if LTI is important, but CIG will of course not answer it.
You know...I would rather Star Citizen be "lack of risk" or on that side of the spectrum, than the Eve Online devastating loss death. I spent more time grinding money in Eve or flying cheap ships I didn't want to fly. Insurance needs work, but I'd rather SC be a game instead of a virtual job, like Eve.
I think Insurance should work similar to how it does now, except the initial "File Claim" button would cost money, and additional money could be paid to "Expedite" just as today. Those with "Lifetime (etc) Insurance" would simply not have to pay the Claim cost for as long as they have insurance. They would get their ship back for free and could pay to expedite.
11:24: Yes, but you can earn ISK just by playing. ISK has a direct monetary value because you CAN purchase it with real currency. So there's a known exchange rate. The values given for how much money was lost in those huge battles isn't money people actually paid (although some obviously did). It's ISK value of all the ships destroyed converted into what it would cost to buy that ISK IF you spent real money on it.
Your ship will age and break down even with maintenance. CIG had mentioned they want to make annual if not near annual "updates" of ships akin to cars irl. That mindset tells me that they have little interest in you wanting to keep your ship...whether you paid in-game or not for it. They want you to eventually buy the next one. But at the moment, none of this matters. As was said in ATC, they're focusing on making money. Whatever nebulous systems they intend the game to have, they'll do what they want to in order to secure that funding now.
From memory you don’t buy ships in E:D as your access to the game. You just buy the game like any other game and if you lose a ship, you buy it and it’s upgraded components again with what money you still have which is why you never spend all your money on a single hold of cargo..
Warning Controversial Spitballing here: Future Funding Model using insurance Non-Subscription Player (1) Ships Available in-game - very high price, (2) Very high in-game insurance cost (3) very long timer **exception for the ship included in the required Game Package (regular timer and expedite cost applied here) Basic Subscription Player (1) Monthly Subscription IRL ($5mo) for basic insurance on IRL purchased ships with vastly reduced claim timers / reduced in game expedited costs (2) does not effect in-game bought ships Premium Subscription Player (1) $10mo IRL sub w/ vastly reduced claim timer and cost on IRL ships + (2) Credit for X number of in-game purchased ships that can be insured for a cheap in-game cost [times relative to each other NOT current values]
Honestly CIG shot themselves in the foot by expanding their storefront so fast and selling insurance packages for real money. At full release I think there should be tiers of insurance that you can purchase for UEC only. Everything from a single day policy up to a year, you can renew it whenever. And like real world insurance you should be able to buy different coverages, like basic liability through full coverage that covers all your upgraded equipment cargo. Have a mandatory deductible to claim your insurance. Have a timer that varies from ship to ship, with capitol ships being up to 24 hours. Maybe 10% of the value of your ship. Negate all of it if you have your wreckage towed, only pay the 10% of what components were salvaged. I mean it's really an easy solution. The problem is they sold LTI for real money. That's why there is a huge grey area. I think they have to honor their prior promises in order to reward the torture of making us all suffer through this incredibly crappy alpha stage. But all of that should end at full release. CIG created all of this headache out of marketing greed
I am on the side of, if my ship blows up and I have lifetime insurance, everything on my ship should be insured including all upgraded components but excluding cargo. Cargo insurance should be something else altogether.
A reasonable compromise that might keep everyone happy would be to make insurance void in dangerous systems. People who don't want to risk their ship can just stay in safe systems and fully enjoy the game there. People who want to accept more risk for higher reward could venture into the more dangerous systems and risk losing their ship forever.
The problem is CIG doesn’t sell the game for $900. They are literally selling digital ships. We own them. We can buy and sell them outside of the game. Also, in eve, they only sell consumables, not ships. Consumables are expected to be used and then lost. And in eve you can sell those consumables in the game market. It’s not an issue of not taking effort to get your ship back. It’s that you purchase it and it belongs to you and not the game is taking it from you. As long as they find a way for you to never truly lose the ships you’ve paid cash for, than it’s all good. An example would be you get your ship back, but it’s still broken and until you pay for the repairs, it remains broken. But you can look at it. You get to know you still own it. Whatever cig wants to do, they need to be clear so people can make an informed decision when going out of their way to buy increased insurances with real money. Also, they have stated that ships will be completely lost. This the confusion and why so many go for lti and extended insurances. I believe the insurance question or at the least a vague answering is so important NOW because it’s effecting purchases
Just want to add that it is also possible to rent ships to earn money to get back to having your own ship again...sooo. I don't mind. I do think components are more interesting and have more priority when talking about this. do I get all components, only some or stock, or does that depend on the insurance model (like do they add some different ones ect...)
Yeah, I'd like the option to re-write my insurance policy when I put a bunch of upgrades in it. Another cool twist would be NOT being able to insure components that don't come from an authorized dealer. Like a homebrewed nitro-powered jump drive that you or some NPC slapped together. Or some black market parts that won't show up on the registry. They may perform better than the others, but they come from something other than authorized dealers. That would add some more meta to the game.
I'm about $670 short of getting the $10K F8C (it better have a custom skin), and yes, I went and got a Gold Ticket LTI F8C anyway. I don't mind having two. One to share! And I absolutely love the look of this heavy fighter. Out of 50ish ships and vehicles only 3 don't have LTI. My starter ship, an URSA and a Dragonfly. I think I won't have to grind much at all trying to maintain insurance costs. I've heard there is a $15K F8C out there as well. A 3rd F8C and we have a Flight! One step closer to a Squadron and a Wing. Yup, definitely getting that F8C too. Oh wait, my buddy has an F8C already. Even better!
The easiest solution would be to make insurance claim cost based on if you want to recover your upgraded items and if you don't pay for that you go back to stock.
Catch 22. CIG should neve have sold large ships. They would have had to kill the project without offering all these ships. It's a debt that will play out later. Really though so many players having so many large ships is a problem.
Nahh.. whales get alot of attention but out of the entire player base of Millions of players - there are exactly 34 people who have spent more than $10k on StarCitizen.@@nahbro3240
FOMO is the wrong concept for the insurance discussion. You're not "missing out" when something you've already paid for is taken from you. Actual loss and "missing out" are very similar but not the same.
It’s not complicated at all. Say the game is working to a point where your ship dosent blow up for no reason etc. -All ship claims need to be cranked up by 300-500% (this will force people to respect there ships & try to repair/ fix there ships if it shuts down, this also brings repair gameplay in the loop) - LTI or paid insurance well give you your ships back but any modifications done will have to be paid out of pocket or you can reject that and get the default load out for no further cost.
9:15 You’re absolutely right that it would take more time since they covered less ground per session but then those people aren’t incentivized to play the game since multiple play sessions will be allocated to what amounts to another job. This will not be good for the player numbers. Imagine you lose your ship: Maybe you I for the time I have left? Don’t get far because other people are further ahead in terms of weapons and gear so you’re already at a disadvantage with that. Ohh maybe I’ll play tomorrow too? Still don’t have my ship… Why would I want to go on just to play for the possibility that I make enough to purchase back my ship and I can get back to what I think is fun about the game? It also doesn’t incentivize me to take risks or explore the vast expansive content CIG is pumping out
I feel like the claim "you didn't lose the ship, you just have to buy it again" is entirely disingenuous. If someone loses their home to a tornado you don't tell them "you didn't lose your home, you just have to buy it again". If you pay cash for a ship it should have LTI built in that covers an identical replacement to what you bought. All upgrades, cargo, etc not included. Anything less is considered lost. That said, it should only apply to ships that have exploded. If your character died in a bunker and your ship is still there, it shouldn't be claimable. You died, not your ship.
I think that insurance rates should be calculated by looking at a player's: track record of maintaining a ship legal status profession etc This creates a risk profile for the player which then determines their insurance rates. You know, like how actual insurance works?
Personally... I think you should lose ALL components and have a fairly long wait timer to fly that ship based on its size. For example, if you lose a Reclaimer... Then maybe a 24 hour lockout on that specific ship. If you dont want to wait, then you should pay 30% to 40% of the value of that ship (minis components cost) to expedite the time by 80%. Money is easy to get in the game... and we only have 1 money sink. Oh, and if you dont have insurance, then you dont have the option to expedite the ship.
Here is the main thing. This game will need to respect players time and effort. If they don't it will die out, or it could cause a huge hacker drive... like cough cough fartkov.
Years ago when you bought stuff, it was yours. Now we have slowly been drip-fed this stuff to where we are willing to pay a monthly fee to use what we already bought. Times have changed. I would not buy a ship that did not have LTI, so they are going down the wrong road if they think about that. Better to add content and charge for that to get $ like custom hangers, bunkers, more skins etc. They need more ships to get more skins to get more $, and more content and customizeability would help drive $ and people to it. Not taking away a ship for using it.
I wonder how they plan on doing insurance only gets you stock setup when something like a 30k means you have to make an insurance claim because the game doesnt remember where you were unless you bed log and so your ship is poof gone. Never played a game with a persistant univerise that doesnt know where you were when you log or get disconnected.
Silver, Gold, and Platinum levels of insurance (or comprehensive) should offer different costs and benefits to players. If you want to get your parts/fit back for a fee, or the contents of the ship, if and when it is destroyed, then you can buy the type of insurance that offers you that functionality, with the right deductible. Or you should be able to salvage and repair your ship if you would rather do that. Every one of these game design questions is an opportunity for depth and complexity , too bad CIG doesn’t seem to put any into their choices.
It is NOT that people want to buy LTI. They don't want to lose access to what they bought, and LTI is the only guarantee (such as it is) against that. This is basic consumer rights, and unfortunately we need to pay extra for that. Saddly, with the final status of insurance still up in the air... maybe LTI will really be unnecessary upon game launch... but given CGIs track record, the player base would not bet on that.
I think the Elite insurance base model works, pay in game currency for insurance for ship AND all installed modules reason I include modules is if Engineering becomes anything like ED there is such a grind for upgrading & Modifying modules I think many would stay away from modifying modules (ED Engineering) if you can never get them insured and only get a vanilla replacement. They could use this Ed model as is or add to it I think ED ins works just fine imao SC could maybe addition to this but I think we have enough stuff that needs to be added to the game that has not LOL however they could include an Insurance option for immediate recovery with higher cost & for a more frugal insurance that cost less but you have to wait 24 RL hours while you wait jump in one of your other ships. Giving the player the option to get back in the fight with immediate effect or if someone is running a tight ship and/or in no rush you the player have options :) As I said though ED Ins as is works just fine imao
I am really enjoying this Sim and the Community. I started in 2019 with The aurora mr and now i just pledged with the C1 Spirit. In one week i went from 8000 Auec to 6.7 million. Bought a vulture too
In a game where you can die falling down stairs or get stuck in an elevator this insurance nonsense should not even be considered for implementation. The only insurance scheme that will not result in lawsuits is where the insurance will cover ALL of the upgrades you've put into the ship. Without it you just get a stock variant of that ship back and lose your upgrades. Any insurance scheme where you lose your ship permanently YOU PAID MONEY FOR is going to be a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.
People are buying ships with cash and can’t lose it. The exchange is rather than buying equity in CIG to keep them going, you get ships. It’s fine if you do not lose your stuff, the way CIG funded this makes it unique as they could run legal risks. And in the end it should not be an issue. LTI is mandatory. And it isn’t pay to win, the biggest ships require crews and money to run it, those with lives will still need to cover that.
I would pay extra money to set a custom stock loadout or "trim levels" for real money ships, maybe using the same interface as upgrading the 300 series
You did not buy the ship, you helped fund the game by donation and got a thank you note (ship). The ship is their digital asset, that is why they can change it between concept and in-game implementation and you don't have a legal leg to stand on. No influence on the process was bought either, you need to get stocks for that. With that out of the way insurrance like in real life would work perfectly well here in combination with production and economy, monthly upkeep, money sink. The ship explodes and is no more, if you insured with all-risks covered (most expensive) you will get the ship back when it is build, depending on the factory and its supply chains, with all the components being as close to what you had on the ship which can be found/build in the market, meaning you'd loose "exotics" found/looted. If you insured for a tier less (less expensive) you get the chassis build, so it is the base model with basic components. If you don't insure, tough luck, build up funds to buy a new one. But CIG will come up with, if they haven't already, what they will come up with and it will be as they intend it, which is not to say it is what the community wants, but it might be what the community needs. There are many preconceptions and I am guilty of having my own. They are trying to innovate, so we won't know until it is implemented fully.
I've always seen insurance in 4 different categories for future... (or at least how I would be ok with it..somewhat)
1- Ship bought in game (no insurance) - Blows up - Gone, buy it again.
2- Ship bought in game ( in game insured) - Blows up - Replaced with insurance that costs UEC either monthly or yearly.
3- Ship bought in Store (real monies LTI) - Blows up - Replaced forever and CR sends you a thank you letter
4- Ship bought in Store (real monies Less than LTI) - Blows up - if insurance runs out, Gone until you use UEC at a lower rate insurance to retrieve it from limbo state.
This doesn't include the elephant in the room that we may end up paying real monies for insurance like a subscription. Its really all a guess.. my brain hurts.
💊 hope you’re brain better
I have both one LTI and one non-LTI and this seems fair. A caveat could be that you should never get stranded as one prior poster mentioned, there should be ways of getting around independent of the ship itself (like passenger services maybe?)
You missed something. You will still have to pay a fee to make an insurance claim. This is on top of the cost of insurance and will always be payable. Expediting is then extra, as well as any insurance add ons.
For none insured pledge ships I'd like to see them returned for nothing but only after a period of time, like say a month.
You're talking as if everything was open to be hashed out at this point...
That is not the case: CIG made definitive contractual clauses, in order to convince people that buying game assets for cash would benefit them long term.
One clause plainly guaranteed, that cash bought items will ALWAYS be returned to the buyer.
The only satisfactory option has been to bring out newer models after the game goes live, so if you wanted the updated XYZ ship, you'd now buy that for game currency, and these ships would decay over time, until you just had to buy another in game curreny.
@@Pharesm Exactly. thats a pickle actually. Kickstarter was suppose to fund the game and give ships to people with perks like this. But they kept going (which is fine because it was the only model of financing that was working). But now that everyone has literally bought ships and not just donation, the legal side must be able to play within this rule. Imagine playing a game that you bough and when you die, you have to play a second game that you also bought to reunlock the first game.
With real money, it gets complicated.
Thats why they need to change the financial model ASAP, but they need to deliver some live service and content first which we don't really have, so yeah...
I feel people would make the effort to work towards getting their ships back if the game wasn't so fucking unplayable. That shouldn't be the case in a theoretical release.
The server stability is disastrous. During the daycare rally the host, tried to get us in ONE server that was stable. We all 30kd 23 times. And finally when racing, 1 hour into the Daymar course, our server 30ks. So everyone racing in that server got disqualified. Took 6 hours to just begin the race for us. Complete waste of time.
@@L-vs7fp The main reason I told my wife I wouldn't participate in the rally. It is such a bummer when you're trying to do something that requires prepping and communication the servers just say nope.
Does anyone remember when Ark Survival Evolved was laggy and buggy and on full release it was just barely less slightly and buggy? Ya. Stop coping. Star citizen will be the same. 10 years later and they’ll be dropping Star citizen survival ascended. And it will still be unplayable.
Answer is simple, you cannot ask people to spend REAL money for 200$+ pixel ships with the risk of losing them in game permanently.
This would mean INSTA-DEATH or PERMA-DEATH for Star Citizen.
My understanding is they've hinted that you won't actually lose your ship, however I think saying you cannot fly the ship until you purchase more insurance in game (if it runs out) is completely acceptable. In real life if your car doesn't have insurance it doesn't instantly get repossessed but you also can't legally drive it. Personally, I like the idea of insurance to help prevent people from continually crashing their ships and be able to reclaim them over and over without issue. At least there will be a cost involved if people choose to do that.
you mean the game that has been billed as having a permadath system? and that specifically says you can and will lose things when failing? its simple.. insure your ship withingame cash.. there. you wont lose your shit.
They also said the price of insurance will be roughly the same as refueling/restocking/repairing, so if you can afford to refuel, you most likely can buy insurance.
Nobody said you're permanently lost it. Just get the in-game credits to afford the insurance,
@@FreebirthBoccara And when the PVPers that are Trolls camp newbies and blow up their ships?
There's a massive difference between being someone with one ship and someone with four ships when it comes to insurance timers.
The guy with one ship is basically stranded by a long cooldown but the guy with four barely cares.
Is he though? The guy with one ship likely doesn't fly something like a Carrack as their daily driver and therefor doesn't have to wait very long or pay very much to expedite the insurance. The guy with one ship is more often than not going to have something around $100 or less. And the guy with a $500+ ship who has to wait a long time for that ship to come back, likely has a couple of smaller ships. At least that's what I'd assume. I might be wrong though.
People with just one ship should maybe get a cheap rental (like a really basic, rusted down heap of crap) to do basic missions until the timer has cooled down
@@masterluu8 The guy with one ship is still waiting around for multiple minutes staring at a timer tick down like it's a mobile game.
Or they could drop a beacon for LFG to make money. It might not be what you think Star Citizen was going to be, but eventually you can play this game, have fun and earn money without having to fly your or any ship
Isn’t there ships you can rent on some major space stations? Maybe it should be on every space station
Court judgements exist regarding virtual property, its ownership and, since virtual items are now considered equal to physical items under law, criminal actions. One judgement ruled that a game developer did not own the virtual items in its game world. The Judge ruled that such items were the property of players once acquired and that this was true regardless of whether they had been bought with real money or acquired through in-game mechanisms.
I don't think anyone who purchased a ship using real money should lose it, however I love the idea that they require insurance for you to legally fly it in game. The insurance should be cheap enough that if it runs out you can easily earn enough to go buy more for your ship but I think it's a cool mechanic and bit of realism that you have to keep track of it and if it runs out there is a penalty. Maybe you could fly in some unregulated parts of space without it but can't land in any UEE systems unless you have it?
That's a good idea
By the way, if you improve your ship from stock settings, then the insurance should reflect those changes.
Agreed, if not with an extra fee to make sure you get them.
so.. again. jsut go back to teh VERY DETAILED insurance explanation from cig . jsut because its from years ago doesnt mean that its changed. SHI just covered the base hull and loadout. lti is a form of SHI its term just doesn't expire. thats the ONLY difference. if you want to cover the upgrades to the ship, you will need to purchase (ingame) an additional type of insurance to cover the non stock components. and then tehre is cargo insurance wich will cover cargo. SHI will be covered everywhere. while upgrade and cargo insurance will only be good for systems and locations with certain security ratings. the higher the security ratings coverage the higher the cost of the insurance.
They can charge you for the upgrades as a addon fee or return the ship to stock, then lti doesnt come into play.
I remember CIG and CR stating that an Origin ship would take much longer to claim, than say a Drake ship, as the components plus workmanship are much different .
For me the easiest option would be to just drop the lose you ship part instead for the time of insurance you have for example 6 months you either pay no or a reduced ingame price to claim you ship. Afterward you need to pay more or need to pay something, but your ships isn’t lost it just remains unavailable to spawn until you pay something. I think that’s a nice balance between risk and reward for those who got LTI.
Insurance and claiming times are not the problem. I would not even care that the claim time for a 1 seater ship go up to 20 minutes.
The problem was never the claim time.. the problem is the dead time... What i would do during those 20-30 minutes... Cig Said 4 years ago that very soon they would implement missions aroud stations, in cities.. reparing stuff... Obviously 4 years after and those missions are nowhere to be seen but nah, the claim time never was the problem... But Hardcore player need to understand that Star Citizen will never be successfull game with periods of 20-30 minutes for the player doing nothing... its a game you wanna play a game... so ok raise the claim times but put stuff in the game to make ppls wait example working, pool tables in bars, arcade machine with real small mini game in them, small mission like repairinf a vent or things like that.. so the claim time will not feel just like waiting but will be a reason to expereince other gameplay the game have to offer.
Yeah, will need good way to group up and track relationships to join other ppl
@@Ultrajamz That, or what i said, things to do on stations and cities outside of just buying stuff. I mean the is arcade machine everywhere and there is pool table and air hockey tables.. i hope one day they will work. CIg said they will but it was back in 2016
19:55 "Nowhere did they say that you would lose that ship"
It says so on the official FAQ for insurance on the RSI website:
"The way to ensure that your property will not be lost forever when these events happen is through insurance policies for your ships."
(I'd provide the link, but UA-cam ate my comment when I did that and it's trivial to find)
Ships purchased with cash should all have LTI. That or the ability to insure destroyed ships and pay the insurance price to get it returned.
That being said, the current claim timers are just ridiculous. Very small ships should take 3 days to replace. arrow, gladius, snubs, mustang etc. Medium ships should be approximately a week, and large ships could be multiple weeks. Of course you're free to PAY UP if you want this process expedited, and replacement times should depend on parts availability. If you're in a system that has a fully completed ship available for purchase, same day replacements should be available. If no ships are available even in nearby systems and everything has to be made from scratch then you're going to be looking at the full replacement schedule.
I can’t remember where it was told, but some years back it was said that it would be claimed but the ship will only be the hull + factory components. (So no fuel , ballistic ammo etc) And that cig was looking into other insurances as cargo and modified components. Those you had to buy ingame
Also, even if you would lose your ship due to having 1 ship and the insured ship time is over, you’d still could play on other people their ships. As most ships are multiplayer ships anyways
I just sorta always assumed that if you don't pay for insurance (UEC), you don't get your lost ship back until you do (perhaps with an UEC late fee attached or rep downgrade to insentivize consistent payments).
I also thought I heard that hull insurance and component insurance are seperate, meaning that LTI just means you never pay for hull insurance, but still must pay for component insurance if you want your upgrades back. I assumed this insurance would also work in the same way I described for hull insurance.
Like all things in SC they just need to follow a real world process. There needs to be a console or in game Web page that shows you insurance policies for each ship. These could be linked to the game economy in the way real insurance premiums are. So as a player, you would register your ship, set an excess fee and the game could set a value for the ship, depreciated by the mileage and condition. It would then give you a yearly or monthly payment scheme. It should also be possible to drive uninsured, although should be illegal. When the worst happens and your ship is stolen (never to return) or destroyed, the player would file an insurance claim. Here I think we should be reimbursed not with a new ship, but credit to buy the new ship, in fact any ship you can afford. Throw in what is probably inevitable and unthought of at this time, that we may get the option to sell second hand ships to other players.
LTI needs to be honoured, but to balance maybe make a very long timer when that ship is destroyed. Like a week for a small ship and a month for a larger one. Would be great if to eventually have the option to take passenger flights to locations, so even if you are without ship you can get around. That may even be someone's preferred method of travel, the protection of a fully fielded npc ship. Food for thought.
I agree with everything but the ridiculously long timers. New players having to wait a week for their Avenger Titan to return to them is a deal-breaker - the same could be said about me too, and I've been playing for years.
@@lawsonterwilliger4061 well, what about there being an in game credit cost to speed up the process? Huge ships should obviously cost a lot more to expedite when holding LTI. I hear what you are saying but it's going to be a problem if you can claim, claim, claim LTI ships without a consequence. There will be no jeopardy and will ruin the game for those with and without a fleet of LTI ships. I've only got one ship myself, a cutlass black with LTI. Cost me about 150 around 3 years ago, I did get the LTI with the thought in the back of my head that at least I'll always be have a a ship thats can't be destroyed or taken away or lost in resets, but maybe I'd be happy with the fact that I'd never need to pay for ingame insurance, that alone would suit my more casual play style. I don't overly enjoy having to do chores to maintain my game but I definitely expect to do some. Not having to worry about insurance would be great. It just occurred to me that LTI could entitle the holder to a platinum insurance, this could mean that depending on the ship, a loaner ship could be granted while the ship timer decreases. They could even be a little beaten up, could be interesting?
In the end, I think we will all end up with a fleet of ingame purchased ships, faction ships etc. I imagine most players will purchase one ship to enter the game and then grind them rest of the fleet. More food for thought and thanks for the reply.
A week for a small ship is ridiculous. Remember, the majority of players only pay for their starter ship. Now imagine them having to wait an entire week to be able to play again. If SCs rep isn't bad enough now, it would be with this system
0:40 This will be the unsolvable issue this game will have, and CIG will have to pick how they want it and go with that. There will never be an eye-to-eye with Care Bares vs. Murder Hobos, ... ever. People are just different, and want different experiences from casual to hard-core, and no one is really wrong, but to make a game world that both play styles can live side by side.... no game has done it yet and satisfied its player base, and I don't really think SC will be any different. CIG has to do it the way they want, and the rest will have to learn to live with it or pick a different game. This also wanders into the lands of player behaviors, and well, plan for the best, but expect the worst.
It's a game. Making it not fun is stupid. Punishing players for buggy code is unacceptable.
Non LTI Ships should just have an insurance option.. pay insurance x dollars for stock ship.. pay x dollars for ship with upgrades installed at destruction.
I like the idea of the 24-hour claim timer where if the components get salvaged, they get replaced with stock. Ships with insurance should have that automatically, and cost less to get back, versus ships w/o ins. cost drastically more to get back, and come with stock parts only. This would also allow them to make some type of purchase-able "extended warranty" insurance, that could be paid for with in-game aUEC/UEC either in one payment or in installments.
I think you make very reasonable points and as Farrister stated: this topic is very polarising. I have all my ships (except an upgraded starter) with LTI, for no "extra" cost than they would've been with less insurance, actually on the contrary, most were cheaper for I used simple CCU chains to get an LTI base to the ship I wanted, but I wanted to get the most out of that system as possible (whatever it'll turn out to be).
Regarding the components: I too am hoping that it'll be tied to reputation; imagine having to do missions for Covalex to get your rep up to buy a higher grade industrial component or you'll have to work with the local military (or UEE) to get enough rep for grade A military components (or their respective blueprints).
So although I'm your average gamer dad and bought my way towards some ships, I'm all for incentives to play or even grind when the loops are diverse enough
Insurance needs a deductible it should be 100% free to get your ship back. No insurance for pirates.
They need to give an option. separate insurance. If you have a ship that cost 2mil and have 400K in upgrades and 400K cargo in it, you can claim for all of it at a certain percentage or just some of it. Like claim just the ship and stock parts for a low amount with a moderate timer, but if you want to have all your upgrades and stored guns/armor on it then its like 10% of the cost of those items with a time increase related to the cost increase. The more costly, the longer the timer. If you lose cargo, you can insure that cargo for some ships and pay to restore the cargo as well. So, if your profit margin is big enough you will still make money or at least not lose a lot.
I'm 36. I have a wife and 2 children. I have a full-time demanding job. I play games to relax. I used to be into very hardcore games, but I'm less into it as my time becomes more scarce and valuable. I may not be able to play this game if it ends up being a life simulator.
So how it works in EVE is you build a ship, put modules on it, buy an insurance policy for it whos cost depends on the value of the ship, and that insurance policy covers a portion of the market value of your ship (up to 80%) at the time of putting insurance on it. This plan lasts for x days and after that you have to reinsure the ship. When your ship is destroyed, you recieve the payout. This means if its stolen you dont get anything.
The conversion of USD to PLEX is dependent on real world markets. The conversion of PLEX to ISK is dependent on in game markets. Both are fairly stable but susceptible to gradual inflation.
why not have like 3 types of insurance. with two subtypes probably. the subtypes being with self involvment or without. and then one insurance for the base ship, one for the components you registered by going in person into the insurance office, and one for the cargo you bought, however that might happen
“Using insurance means you died “ good point , also might mean you defeated your opponent : insurance will determine what that means .
A simple long term trick: make the insured ships just stock-item ships, but also have the ships have relatively low ingame cost to buy. And have a relatively poor performance with stock items. But offer to upgrade the ship to a higher component level in the spawn-hangar that is payed by ingame money or using components from the players storage.
Imagine you've just bought the yacht and you go to get the ship at the space station that doesn't appear in a hangar but rather by docking, then someone out of nowhere hits your ship and it explodes before you even get in it but you still don't have insurance so you lose the ship and have to buy it again. If these insurance systems where this potential risk of losing what you buy in-game or in the store, it will make everyone only pilot small and low-risk ships for those who don't buy in the store, and those who have ships with LTI are the ones who will dominate, it will be like those MMORPGs where the level gets so high that either you spend hundreds of dollars on a ship with LTI or you grind for a LONG time until you reach a level where you're not worried about losing ships or items. You can compare it to E.V.E online, where it can take months or even years to reach a level where you would consider losing something acceptable. New players may not have the same mentality because the risk of losing something and replacing it is much longer and more difficult. Even more so in SC, where they want to apply this Tarkov approach, where the consequences of loss are greater than the gain. Now, anyone can buy a C2 or a Vulture in the game and make easy money. Imagine this in a game with more than 100 players, where the potential risk is greater, where players who want to screw you over can appear. They don't even need to shoot you. They can simply buy an Aurora and torpedo you.
I was thinking; even if your ship has no insurance, if you got it with real money, you'll get it back, but it may take some time, ie: the next update and/or build time (based on size), what ever is longer?
If you got it with real money and it's insured, you'll get it back sooner than stated previously or you could grind for it and get it faster (hopefully with components) than either and insurance will refund the cost (minus paperwork fees / 1 -5%).
Insurance will only cover the ship as originally sold, ie: without customization (upgraded components, weapons, etc...).
If you grinded for a ship and it had no insurance... well start grinding, but you'll likely need to also grind for the components (stock or custom).
ED Philosophy- "Don't fly without rebuy!"
Insurance in real life insures your car's stock value based on dealership price. Not sure how they do it for current aftermarket parts, but being able to insure them buy getting your ship price re-evaluated by the insurance company and paying extra, would make sense in-game.
I think CIG should add a ship re-evaluation feature to the insurance company. A type of save-state of your ship's current loadout, that gives the player their exact ship in the state it was last "saved" by the insurance protection.
To me, insurance should at the most hardcore level just give you a chance to not lose components and cargo. As to how that works, there's many ways it could work but here's the best way (the tarkov way but better).
When your ship is blown up and you claim your insurance, a mission is generated. You get a new default ship "immediately" with default components. Only people with a good level of reputation with the insurance profession can take up the mission. It will give the details of the location and components of the ship + the number of SCU of cargo (without stating the contents if you, the insured player, has chosen so). The scavenger has to retrieve the components and cargo and deliver them to a location, they will get payed a bit more than they would for selling the items directly but as I said it requires rep. The insurance company sends you a message where you can choose which components to reuse and which to replace, but only common (sold somewhere) components can be replaced with new ones. If you choose to replace a component, you can do that without having recovered the component. Finally, the Insurance Company delivers a cargo crate with all the components to your hangar. If the insurance company detects continued fraud when recovering the ship, you will get a fine and eventually lose your insurance and lose reputation as well as possibly get banned from getting certain insurance levels or any insurance at all with that or other companies.
There should be different levels of insurance (LTI and current insurance times being at the highest level by default).
S - You can always replace common components free of charge. Rarer components will be repaired for you free of charge. Destroyed non common components will give you a partial refund when recovered. Insurance covers systems of any security level.
A - You can always replace common components but pay a fee if the original wasn't recovered. Rarer components can be repaired at a discount when receiving the new ship. Requires an extra payment when the ship has been destroyed in a high risk zone (pyro).
B - You can always replace common components but pay a fee if the original wasn't recovered. Requires an extra payment when the ship has been destroyed in a high risk or low security zone.
C - All the recovered components go to the Insurance company. You get a new ship with a default setup for a small fee. Requires an extra payment when the ship has been destroyed in a high risk or low security zone or in combat.
Additionally, there should be some options to add to each insurance for example:
Insurance to have a partial refund of the cargo SCUs recovered when the insurance is claimed based on the contents.
I don't know, something like that.
I think a pretty easy middle ground would be. If you have insurance, you have the option to pay to expedite or wait out the timer. Exactly how it’s now. If you don’t have insurance you HAVE to pay aUEC to start the timer to get your ship back. And then you HAVE to wait the claim time. You don’t get to choose. Both parties lose components.
Here's my suggestion: EVERY ship, whether purchased in-game or with real currency, should have a VIN (GUID). If that ship has insurance and it gets damaged, you should pay a deductible and the insurance should cover anything above that amount. The current system of "claiming a ship" whenever we want to would just go away - the insurance company would issue a contract any SRV pilot could grab to come get the damaged ship and tow it to the closest repair station.
All insurance should be "replacement cost" including any components in the ship. If the ship is destroyed with insurance, you should pay your deductible and the ship should be replaced in a short time delay like we have today, while the insurance company salvages any remnant of the old ship (this could also be done via a salvage contract and potentially a security contract to protect the salvagers). Any theft of a component from an insurance-owned ship should be an immediate crime stat in a monitored system.
Any time a ship is destroyed WITHOUT insurance, if it was bought with in-game currency, it's just gone, and the wreck and components become fair game for any salvagers. If it was bought with real money, it would be available again (with stock components and weapons) in your hanger after 24h or 48h. This isn't realistic in-game, but would completely prevent any kind of lawsuits or negative press that would hurt CIG or the SC reputation, which is more important.
Essentially this model would incentivize purchasing timed insurance separately (with real money or in-game money), stimulate towing, salvage, and escort/protection missions, and protect CIG from the ridicule and most likely lawsuits that would come from letting real-world purchases be forever lost in-game.
Here's how to add a game Loop for insurance. You put a claim in to get your ship back, the game puts out a mission that you cannot accept to do something with your ship. Maybe a salvage Mission or something else that might be going on. If it was a cargo ship in the game detects it still has cargo on it, the mission could be go pick up that cargo and deliver it somewhere else. If someone takes and completes the mission you get all of your modules back.
The hard part would be coding the game to determining the stat of your ship and location.
This would allow the game to give you the ship with base loadout at any time. Then a window for the mission, to get your upgraded modules
@14:30 I think you might be referring to the Spectrum post by Azme-CIG that was initially put up in gold text (official) but pretty quickly retracted to white text, so she spoke above her pay-grade there.
Honestly, we really should make sure components are a significant in game expense, especially as you get to fancier ones...and make them not covered by insurance (or at least not without some market value based fee). That way we have some kind of loss mechanic to drive the economy of the game.
The biggest concern with LTI, and insurance in general, that i see is that if it is left to cover everything you end up in a state of endless accumulation. A game like this needs a counter to that. I see a strong one being having decent variance in components so that they are worth chasing, and then loss of components, or even the cost of components (say if your insurance requires you to pay market prices to replace them with yoir ship) could be an effective tool in keeping the game fresh.
I like the idea of losing Components. That would give much more gameplay to salvaging weapons and components from NPC ships and stockpiling them at your base/hangar for when you need an upgrade/repair.
Or have add on component Ins. paid with ingame UEC, for the upgraded components to be returned with the ship when claimed.
Why not do a middle ground? insurance will cover the stock ship in however long it takes for each ship, components that aren't ripped from the old ship are returned around 24hr later.
This way you aren't prevented from just buying new components and flying the ship anyways, but you also don't necessarily lose the components you had if they aren't taken.
I agree with you that there is no happy ending with insurance. No matter what they go with someone is going to be upset. But with things seeming to ramp up they need to address it soon as its going to be more relevant sooner rather then later.
they have already addressed it.. years ago..
I think the best solution is to look at a twist on the way a game like GTA5 handles vehicle ownership. I don't think people should lose any ships permanently whether bought with in-game currency or real money. It doesn't have to be realistic. At the end of the day its a video game and the GTA car ownership system is actually pretty good for all players on the pve or pvp side.
You have a list of ships that are in your "garage" or "hangar" and those ships are ships that you own. Whether with in-game currency or with real dollars. If your ship blows up with insurance, you pay a small UEC fee for delivery or something and then wait out the claim timer. If it is uninsured, you will have to re-purchase insurance for that ship and pay a substantially larger fee and wait out a longer claim timer.
If you have custom equipment on the ship you can choose to pay significantly more per month/quarter/half/whatever to insure those items. If they are looted then you receive a small amount of UEC as compensation. If the parts are not looted you get those parts back.
If your ship is destroyed while uninsured, you will receive your new ship completely stock no matter what after paying the additional fees and waiting out the longer claim timer.
If an unlawful player destroys your ship, if they ever go to prison with the crime of destroying your property still on your record, you receive UEC equal to the insurance cost of claiming your ship. The imprisoned player can choose to pay out the insurance fee costs from their UEC wallet or have time added to their sentence proportional to the cost of the claim fee (ie. more time for blowing up larger and more expensive ships).
This makes prison more punishing for destroying property, which would encourage people to pirate ships without just blowing them which would lead to more emergent gameplay. It would at least somewhat help the issue of murder-hobos in-game. And you now have something invested in whether or not the person who wronged you is ever brought to justice before they can clear their crimestat. You may even want to pay an experienced bounty hunter to chase this person down to recoup the significant cost/time of claiming your 890, reclaimer, idris, whatever.
I think any ship purchased with real money should also be claimable in game even when insurance expires. Maybe the incentive should be while insurance is active you also get components back.
- So LTI you get ship back with all components.
- No LTI once insurance expires you just get stock ship back unless you paid for additional in-game insurance.
The ship components issue is simple. It should depend on how you acquired them. Purchasing ship components in-game should just assume an insurance fee is included in the component's UEC price. But if you steal/salvage the components (so logically there would be no record of you ever owning them) then they are either lost with the ship's destruction, or can be insured separately in advance with an additional fee (payable through mobiglas hopefully).
The case law states a replacement/refund would be possible if the replacement cost is disproportionate to the value of the item or if replacement would take unreasonably long. I believe we waive that right though with the EULA.
When insuring a ship, the non-stock weapons and components could be also insured at extra higher cost. This should be an option, and give players the choice if they want to spend more insuring all non-stock items.
Instead of outright losing a ship (whether bought ingame or with real money), the cost to get it back if not insured should be like triple of what the insurance would of been, or something along these lines as long as it stays cheaper than buying the ship again in game, and the wait time is much longer.
If they add "legendary" weapons/components that can only be found, these should be lost forever, or at the very least make it very VERY expensive to insure these.
They need to treat it like car insurance. You don't just get an exact duplicate of your car back. You get money in the amount of the value of the car, and you have to go buy another one.
In terms of LTI, you get a token so you can go to the ship dealer, and get another of the same model of ship. In game purchasable insurance, you get the value in credits.
I feel like this would add that sense of loss to backers, without us feeling ripped off. If the ship blows up, its a process and a half to get it back. But we DO get it back, albeit without the upgrades weve done to it.
at the end of the day its a game... if after some sort of "release" milestone and insurance is in place, IRL $ bought ships should always have some sort of way to recover. Maybe it should be something like a once a year or x number of month(s), with very long wait period. But imagine your power goes out while you took your ship out for a quick ride after insurance expired (not that you should, but you theoretically CAN).... Now i think CIG's policy is unclear for two reasons... 1. They don't know for sure and 2. Peoples' current perception of how insurance could work is driving the FOMO on the limited Life time / long durance insurance ship packages, which means they don't want to stop the influx of money
What about paying in-game money to reinstall each of the components and refill gun and armor racks at cost + fees (simple % of total) for install, plus increasing waiting times to reclaim your ship if these options are selected. This fixes it for all parties as far as I can see. Especially if money is becoming more scarce, or prices are on the rise.
Presumably, if crafting is going to have much of an impact, the game needs to take items out of circulation. Thus loosing components on death would make sense
I think that there should be an interest terminal where you can buy loss equipment for the first 24 hours at 10% of its value, at 50% of its value after the first 24 hours. I think that way there is still some risk but you're not completely debilitated after a single death in an expensive ship.
In the ancient times insurance was suposed to be separated at least to hull, component and cargo which all were to be obtained separately. Hull insurance covers the hull and stock components and LTI is hull insurance. It was promised that it would be practically impossible to take off without hull insurance. Components, and cargo could be insured, but it would not cover high risk systems or there would be risk based cost.
Also the delay to get stuff back from insurance was suposed to be economy based so rare/expensive stuff would be far slower to reclaim, also repeated claims would slow the insurance fulfilment. Furthermore completing specific missions/helping economy could speed up the claim.
Ofc. This comes from ancient communications/people long since departed from CIG, so your guess is as valis as mine.
I assumed (maybe naively so) that you would just have to pay for insurance with UEC (after the bundled insurance expires) in the same way you do IRL - a recurring small payment for cover, with some percentage of the ship value to pay when you need to claim. This would be one of many money sinks, most likely.
They stated this a long time ago now.. The idea was to be able to have your destroyed ship towed to a junkyard where you can then pay to repair it. You wouldn't lose your ship entirely without insurance. You'd just have to put in more effort to get it back.
I would be happy with something as follow:
LTI: your stock hull and components, no upgrades covered
LTI + ingame fee: Everything covered as modded, FULL SHIP back with everything customized as it was.
Timed insurance 2/3/4/6/12/120months: Stock HULL during the covered time
Timed insurance + Ingame fee: FULL coverage like the LTI + fee.
Uninsured ship: A penalty for insurance value, or maybe an uninsured ship could be pulled out of ASOP untill the insurance fee is paid for.... being it a lower value for stock hull or a full value of insurance for FULLY COSTOMIZED.
I think the uninsured ship not being able to pulled out of ASOP its a better solution for the problem of maybe losing it.
I see a couple big problems.
1. Gankers - this is gonna make people mad. If you're trying to leave Seraphim and someone kills you as you leave the hangar, and you have to rebuy upgrades, that really sucks.
Right now, I don't mind them. It's a game loop that frustrates people, but it isn't *that* bad. It encourages player bounty hunting and teamwork across the server.
I can get in my C2, charge shields in the hangar, and be on my merry way past em. I could even go get a fighter, come back, and try to get em. All good.
If people had to wait a day and re-buy upgrades because they dared to leave the station they spawned in, that sucks. Sure, they could server log if they k ow ahead of time, but we know CIG doesn't really want people doing that too much.
2. The way logging works. It really sucks that if you have an emergency and have to turn off the game, you have to claim your ship wherever you spawn if you don't have feasible means to go get it, or if someone kills it while you are going to get it (if you can actually remember where it is and find it).
It already sucks that you have to land on planet (if you have a bed) or fly to a city/station and park to conveniently have access to your ship when you log back on. Add a super long timer and component re-buys to that, and that is really un-fun. This is a game, after all.
I feel like if you salvage or "sell" your salvage claim then you would need to repurchase your components via a debt. Your salvage claim would "earn" more via the components and scraping/salvage, but standard users would just claim their ship back with all components. Just thinking about IRL buying your totaled vehicle back after the claim that you could then sell for parts or rebuild being the claimants choice.
There is a massive assumption that uninsured ships that can’t be reclaimed are lost but what if the ship became a hull that then requires repair and this costs part of the value of the ship if you pay to get it done or costs time and resources if you do it yourself? And if you didn’t want to participate in this loop you could pay to insure your ship in game? Then you have the money sink AND the gameplay.
The other Elephant in the room is that ships like the Pioneer can’t have LTI where ships with a much lower value can which is nonsensical.
I really think that before they can address insurance directly CIG needs to address the reasons we claim,
this primarily covers the login/logout flow but also starmap/markers etc
right now if you are in deep space and hit alt f4 then that's a guaranteed claim as you are teleported back to station,
this is silly, we should return to the same position we logged out in regardless of how we logged out (unless someone killed us in the interim, then a respawn)
if the login flow was fixed so we always return to the position we left then that would take care of a load of insurance claims
the next step is to give us a method of moving ships between stations. e.g if my ship is stored at orison, but i'm at po, then give me a move button, make the move function take 2-3x longer and cost auc, but i shouldnt be claiming it....
then we also need robust maps and markers so we actually have a hope of recovering ships from a known location, and even npc shuttle services to facilitate this.
of course we still have a load of bugs that cause ships to be in an unusable state, so those need to be addressed.. but the goal of these changes should be to disallow insurance claims for ships that are able to be retrieved via other gameplay mechanics.
I think that once we are no longer claiming our ships due to these design oversights then some actual thought could be put into how insurance should work
on the subject of levels of insurance, i think all the current insurances should be hull + stock components insurance, but we should have the option of paying an in game fee to increase that to have our ship delivered with our modifications restored. (within reasons, only commonly available ones) this could be done in several ways,
1. you have the components in your inventory, so they are taken from there and fitted to your ship automatically for a small fee and time delay
2. the components are available in the location you are claiming, so you automatically buy replacements at a reduced cost and fit them for a larger fee and larger time delay
3. the components are not available in the location, so the fees/delays go up considerably, or you are prompted to collect your ship from another location
4. the components are not available for sale anywhere, in which case you can opt to have the ship delivered with that component omitted or as stock
the intention of this suggestion is not to continue with free replacements, but also to avoid the quantum citizen shopping spree gameplay that would otherwise ensue if we were forced to travel to rebuy every component from 10 different shops each time we make a whoopsie.
My take is :
- Real money ship + insurance = you lose nothing. Same system of what we have right now with obvious balancing.
- Real money ship without insurance = long time to get it back. For exemple 24h for a C1 or 1 week for a capital ship.
- In game money ship + insurance = you lose nothing. Same system of what we have right now with obvious balancing.
- In game money ship without insurance = you lose everything.
For pirates, they can't insure their ships so CIG can do an "insurance like" thing based on reputation with pirate factions, and with longer waiting time to retrieve a ship.
A balancing of this system can allow players to use their real money ship too, without the fear of losing everything.
Then there's in game premium insurances that players can purchase with uec to insure loadout and cargo.
This will be a different insurance and if you don't have it, then if your ship get destroyed, you will retrieve it "stock".
These insurances will not be available for pirates.
IMO LTI should be for stock ships ONLY and there should be additional extra insurance purchasable in game for the after market upgrades, cargo, equipment on board etc.
its just like real life insurance...if you have valid insurance on your vehicle. Then its going to behave like the sytem we have now. However, if your insurance runs out, you will just have to pay a large sum of UEC to get the ship back. The ship is not going to be "LOST". The only question i really have is if you will be able to purchase additional insurance like LTI .....in-game with UEC
i live in switzerland, out here its straight up illegal to drive an uninsured car.. maybe just say you get your ship back as soon as you pay the insurance and until then its not gonna be brought to a hangar?
Yeah, even as someone who did the "buy rather than grind" thing, I WHOLLY expect the replacement to come stock. If you got some rare alien cooler that's unique, well...maybe you should have been more careful, then?
ALL of my ships are LTI, but I've used the repurchase option at will to buy back LIT starters that were upgraded to other ships. . .
I think what they will need to do to make this viable for those with one, or no ships is to have more content to do in the cities to enable the players to make the cash to either a) insure the ship again or b) buy a new ship to start a content loop again.
I would argue that the standpoint of "you don't really lose that ship, you just have to spend the ingame money to rebuy it" is fundamentally flawed. Rebuy is literally buy again. As all players can purchase the ship ingame, this would seem (to me) to be a unrelated mechanic to the pledge store purchases. Meaning the capacity to purchase a ship ingame is completely unrelated to a real money purchase. A complicated issue to be sure.
In the UK my insurance went up 33% this year even though no accidents… 🎉
I want component loss on ship death / stealing. I like the idea of anything taken is now stock on next claim time. I also feel insurance should be paid in excess to protect components and cargo.
I really want to know if LTI is important, but CIG will of course not answer it.
You know...I would rather Star Citizen be "lack of risk" or on that side of the spectrum, than the Eve Online devastating loss death. I spent more time grinding money in Eve or flying cheap ships I didn't want to fly. Insurance needs work, but I'd rather SC be a game instead of a virtual job, like Eve.
I think Insurance should work similar to how it does now, except the initial "File Claim" button would cost money, and additional money could be paid to "Expedite" just as today. Those with "Lifetime (etc) Insurance" would simply not have to pay the Claim cost for as long as they have insurance. They would get their ship back for free and could pay to expedite.
11:24: Yes, but you can earn ISK just by playing. ISK has a direct monetary value because you CAN purchase it with real currency. So there's a known exchange rate. The values given for how much money was lost in those huge battles isn't money people actually paid (although some obviously did). It's ISK value of all the ships destroyed converted into what it would cost to buy that ISK IF you spent real money on it.
Your ship will age and break down even with maintenance. CIG had mentioned they want to make annual if not near annual "updates" of ships akin to cars irl. That mindset tells me that they have little interest in you wanting to keep your ship...whether you paid in-game or not for it. They want you to eventually buy the next one.
But at the moment, none of this matters. As was said in ATC, they're focusing on making money. Whatever nebulous systems they intend the game to have, they'll do what they want to in order to secure that funding now.
From memory you don’t buy ships in E:D as your access to the game. You just buy the game like any other game and if you lose a ship, you buy it and it’s upgraded components again with what money you still have which is why you never spend all your money on a single hold of cargo..
The problem with the components is people were doing Insurance Fraud. They would wreck their ships then claim insurance to duplicate them.
Warning Controversial Spitballing here:
Future Funding Model using insurance
Non-Subscription Player
(1) Ships Available in-game - very high price,
(2) Very high in-game insurance cost
(3) very long timer
**exception for the ship included in the required Game Package (regular timer and expedite cost applied here)
Basic Subscription Player
(1) Monthly Subscription IRL ($5mo) for basic insurance on IRL purchased ships with vastly reduced claim timers / reduced in game expedited costs
(2) does not effect in-game bought ships
Premium Subscription Player
(1) $10mo IRL sub w/ vastly reduced claim timer and cost on IRL ships +
(2) Credit for X number of in-game purchased ships that can be insured for a cheap in-game cost
[times relative to each other NOT current values]
I think that LTI should only cover the hull since at one time they said that we will be able to ensure components separately.
Honestly CIG shot themselves in the foot by expanding their storefront so fast and selling insurance packages for real money.
At full release I think there should be tiers of insurance that you can purchase for UEC only. Everything from a single day policy up to a year, you can renew it whenever. And like real world insurance you should be able to buy different coverages, like basic liability through full coverage that covers all your upgraded equipment cargo. Have a mandatory deductible to claim your insurance. Have a timer that varies from ship to ship, with capitol ships being up to 24 hours. Maybe 10% of the value of your ship. Negate all of it if you have your wreckage towed, only pay the 10% of what components were salvaged. I mean it's really an easy solution. The problem is they sold LTI for real money. That's why there is a huge grey area. I think they have to honor their prior promises in order to reward the torture of making us all suffer through this incredibly crappy alpha stage. But all of that should end at full release. CIG created all of this headache out of marketing greed
I am on the side of, if my ship blows up and I have lifetime insurance, everything on my ship should be insured including all upgraded components but excluding cargo. Cargo insurance should be something else altogether.
A reasonable compromise that might keep everyone happy would be to make insurance void in dangerous systems. People who don't want to risk their ship can just stay in safe systems and fully enjoy the game there. People who want to accept more risk for higher reward could venture into the more dangerous systems and risk losing their ship forever.
The problem is CIG doesn’t sell the game for $900. They are literally selling digital ships. We own them. We can buy and sell them outside of the game.
Also, in eve, they only sell consumables, not ships. Consumables are expected to be used and then lost. And in eve you can sell those consumables in the game market.
It’s not an issue of not taking effort to get your ship back. It’s that you purchase it and it belongs to you and not the game is taking it from you. As long as they find a way for you to never truly lose the ships you’ve paid cash for, than it’s all good. An example would be you get your ship back, but it’s still broken and until you pay for the repairs, it remains broken. But you can look at it. You get to know you still own it.
Whatever cig wants to do, they need to be clear so people can make an informed decision when going out of their way to buy increased insurances with real money.
Also, they have stated that ships will be completely lost. This the confusion and why so many go for lti and extended insurances.
I believe the insurance question or at the least a vague answering is so important NOW because it’s effecting purchases
Just want to add that it is also possible to rent ships to earn money to get back to having your own ship again...sooo. I don't mind. I do think components are more interesting and have more priority when talking about this. do I get all components, only some or stock, or does that depend on the insurance model (like do they add some different ones ect...)
Yeah, I'd like the option to re-write my insurance policy when I put a bunch of upgrades in it. Another cool twist would be NOT being able to insure components that don't come from an authorized dealer. Like a homebrewed nitro-powered jump drive that you or some NPC slapped together. Or some black market parts that won't show up on the registry. They may perform better than the others, but they come from something other than authorized dealers. That would add some more meta to the game.
I'm about $670 short of getting the $10K F8C (it better have a custom skin), and yes, I went and got a Gold Ticket LTI F8C anyway. I don't mind having two. One to share! And I absolutely love the look of this heavy fighter. Out of 50ish ships and vehicles only 3 don't have LTI. My starter ship, an URSA and a Dragonfly. I think I won't have to grind much at all trying to maintain insurance costs. I've heard there is a $15K F8C out there as well. A 3rd F8C and we have a Flight! One step closer to a Squadron and a Wing. Yup, definitely getting that F8C too. Oh wait, my buddy has an F8C already. Even better!
The easiest solution would be to make insurance claim cost based on if you want to recover your upgraded items and if you don't pay for that you go back to stock.
Catch 22. CIG should neve have sold large ships. They would have had to kill the project without offering all these ships. It's a debt that will play out later. Really though so many players having so many large ships is a problem.
Nahh.. whales get alot of attention but out of the entire player base of Millions of players - there are exactly 34 people who have spent more than $10k on StarCitizen.@@nahbro3240
FOMO is the wrong concept for the insurance discussion. You're not "missing out" when something you've already paid for is taken from you. Actual loss and "missing out" are very similar but not the same.
It’s not complicated at all.
Say the game is working to a point where your ship dosent blow up for no reason etc.
-All ship claims need to be cranked up by 300-500% (this will force people to respect there ships & try to repair/ fix there ships if it shuts down, this also brings repair gameplay in the loop)
- LTI or paid insurance well give you your ships back but any modifications done will have to be paid out of pocket or you can reject that and get the default load out for no further cost.
9:15
You’re absolutely right that it would take more time since they covered less ground per session but then those people aren’t incentivized to play the game since multiple play sessions will be allocated to what amounts to another job. This will not be good for the player numbers.
Imagine you lose your ship:
Maybe you I for the time I have left? Don’t get far because other people are further ahead in terms of weapons and gear so you’re already at a disadvantage with that.
Ohh maybe I’ll play tomorrow too? Still don’t have my ship…
Why would I want to go on just to play for the possibility that I make enough to purchase back my ship and I can get back to what I think is fun about the game?
It also doesn’t incentivize me to take risks or explore the vast expansive content CIG is pumping out
I feel like the claim "you didn't lose the ship, you just have to buy it again" is entirely disingenuous. If someone loses their home to a tornado you don't tell them "you didn't lose your home, you just have to buy it again".
If you pay cash for a ship it should have LTI built in that covers an identical replacement to what you bought. All upgrades, cargo, etc not included.
Anything less is considered lost. That said, it should only apply to ships that have exploded. If your character died in a bunker and your ship is still there, it shouldn't be claimable. You died, not your ship.
I think that insurance rates should be calculated by looking at a player's:
track record of maintaining a ship
legal status
profession
etc
This creates a risk profile for the player which then determines their insurance rates.
You know, like how actual insurance works?
Personally... I think you should lose ALL components and have a fairly long wait timer to fly that ship based on its size. For example, if you lose a Reclaimer... Then maybe a 24 hour lockout on that specific ship. If you dont want to wait, then you should pay 30% to 40% of the value of that ship (minis components cost) to expedite the time by 80%. Money is easy to get in the game... and we only have 1 money sink. Oh, and if you dont have insurance, then you dont have the option to expedite the ship.
Here is the main thing. This game will need to respect players time and effort. If they don't it will die out, or it could cause a huge hacker drive... like cough cough fartkov.
I do hope we move away from this tarkov shit it just stick to a space game with mmo elements.
Years ago when you bought stuff, it was yours. Now we have slowly been drip-fed this stuff to where we are willing to pay a monthly fee to use what we already bought. Times have changed. I would not buy a ship that did not have LTI, so they are going down the wrong road if they think about that. Better to add content and charge for that to get $ like custom hangers, bunkers, more skins etc. They need more ships to get more skins to get more $, and more content and customizeability would help drive $ and people to it. Not taking away a ship for using it.
I wonder how they plan on doing insurance only gets you stock setup when something like a 30k means you have to make an insurance claim because the game doesnt remember where you were unless you bed log and so your ship is poof gone. Never played a game with a persistant univerise that doesnt know where you were when you log or get disconnected.
Silver, Gold, and Platinum levels of insurance (or comprehensive) should offer different costs and benefits to players. If you want to get your parts/fit back for a fee, or the contents of the ship, if and when it is destroyed, then you can buy the type of insurance that offers you that functionality, with the right deductible. Or you should be able to salvage and repair your ship if you would rather do that. Every one of these game design questions is an opportunity for depth and complexity , too bad CIG doesn’t seem to put any into their choices.
It is NOT that people want to buy LTI. They don't want to lose access to what they bought, and LTI is the only guarantee (such as it is) against that. This is basic consumer rights, and unfortunately we need to pay extra for that. Saddly, with the final status of insurance still up in the air... maybe LTI will really be unnecessary upon game launch... but given CGIs track record, the player base would not bet on that.
I think the Elite insurance base model works, pay in game currency for insurance for ship AND all installed modules reason I include modules is if Engineering becomes anything like ED there is such a grind for upgrading & Modifying modules I think many would stay away from modifying modules (ED Engineering) if you can never get them insured and only get a vanilla replacement.
They could use this Ed model as is or add to it I think ED ins works just fine imao
SC could maybe addition to this but I think we have enough stuff that needs to be added to the game that has not LOL however they could include an Insurance option for immediate recovery with higher cost & for a more frugal insurance that cost less but you have to wait 24 RL hours while you wait jump in one of your other ships.
Giving the player the option to get back in the fight with immediate effect or if someone is running a tight ship and/or in no rush you the player have options :) As I said though ED Ins as is works just fine imao
I am really enjoying this Sim and the Community. I started in 2019 with The aurora mr and now i just pledged with the C1 Spirit. In one week i went from 8000 Auec to 6.7 million. Bought a vulture too
In a game where you can die falling down stairs or get stuck in an elevator this insurance nonsense should not even be considered for implementation. The only insurance scheme that will not result in lawsuits is where the insurance will cover ALL of the upgrades you've put into the ship. Without it you just get a stock variant of that ship back and lose your upgrades. Any insurance scheme where you lose your ship permanently YOU PAID MONEY FOR is going to be a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.
People are buying ships with cash and can’t lose it. The exchange is rather than buying equity in CIG to keep them going, you get ships. It’s fine if you do not lose your stuff, the way CIG funded this makes it unique as they could run legal risks.
And in the end it should not be an issue. LTI is mandatory. And it isn’t pay to win, the biggest ships require crews and money to run it, those with lives will still need to cover that.
I would pay extra money to set a custom stock loadout or "trim levels" for real money ships, maybe using the same interface as upgrading the 300 series
You did not buy the ship, you helped fund the game by donation and got a thank you note (ship). The ship is their digital asset, that is why they can change it between concept and in-game implementation and you don't have a legal leg to stand on. No influence on the process was bought either, you need to get stocks for that.
With that out of the way insurrance like in real life would work perfectly well here in combination with production and economy, monthly upkeep, money sink. The ship explodes and is no more, if you insured with all-risks covered (most expensive) you will get the ship back when it is build, depending on the factory and its supply chains, with all the components being as close to what you had on the ship which can be found/build in the market, meaning you'd loose "exotics" found/looted. If you insured for a tier less (less expensive) you get the chassis build, so it is the base model with basic components. If you don't insure, tough luck, build up funds to buy a new one.
But CIG will come up with, if they haven't already, what they will come up with and it will be as they intend it, which is not to say it is what the community wants, but it might be what the community needs. There are many preconceptions and I am guilty of having my own. They are trying to innovate, so we won't know until it is implemented fully.