Hi Curtis and all. I went to a NDE support group this weekend. I mentioned Swedenborge I was thrilled to see that people knew of him and I directed them to this channel because it has helped me so much. So with hopes I sent more people to subscribe. :D
Yes, i too have been sending/SHARING these video's with friends & family. I've ALWAYS KNOWN God/Jehovah, etc, was a LOVING God, can ANYONE image throwing your CHILD or ANYONE in the pits of hell.... SO why WOULD GOD do that!? in my gut I knew God WOULD NEVER do such a thing,. As I was raised a Catholic it NEVER made sense to me, NO organized religion made or DOES make SENSE to me as every1 translates the Bible or their (collective) ideas & ideals should be OR THEIR perception of WHAT Faith, God, heaven, hell, Angels etc SHOULD be or IS . FROM the very FIRST (1st) time I could really understand or sit still to LISTEN to a service, I had SO MANY questions, then at Sunday school I had more questions & WANTED real ANSWERS!!! SOME of the teachers explaintions made sense, approx 98% or less, hence I was constantly thrown out of the classroom, & branded a menace/disruptive to the other Kids & the classroom & UNWILLING to learn, ALL bcuz I had qus. 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🙄😡
Dr. Soni Werner, thank you for your sincerity and insight … Many years ago I read a very short description by Bertrand Russell, an English philosopher, about another philosopher’s disposition when he found himself in a situation of debate. That philosopher’s name is Baruch Spinoza, and Russell said of him: “In controversy he was courteous and reasonable, never denouncing, but doing his utmost to persuade.” There’s such a beautiful maturity in that kind of thinking and disposition that I’ve never forgotten those few words, and have endeavored ever since to be that kind of person. After having been introduced to Swedenborg and his writings (which elaborate extensively on angelic dispositions of this sort), this want within me for a more polite and congenial dialogue with others in opposition to my view has internalized within me more and more. By this- and I only have the Lord to thank- I have won over friendships that would have otherwise ended in heated and barbaric debates between strangers. I’m so grateful …
John, what a profound discovery! My heart is stirred by Russell's words as it described Spinoza's disposition during times of controversy. I can see how one could apply that in engagements with others and have blessed results! Thanks for sharing such a valuable testimonial with us, my friend.
Very happy to see Sage joining this great segment :). I've been enjoying and learning a lot at the Swedenborg chapel in Massachusetts and it brings me great joy to see everyone connecting . Always benefit greatly from these videos 🙏
I was really happy to see the issue of narcissism addressed. There is so much on social media these days about recognizing narcissistic behavior and how terrible and toxic the narcissist is. While it is true that we need to protect ourselves from being abused or manipulated, it is also very important to realize that the narcissist is a damaged person who got the way they are by unfortunate circumstances in their lives. We can protect ourselves without losing compassion. Swedenborg writes about how the angels always try to understand a person's behavior in the best light possible, which is something we can try to emulate here, as well. In addition, we ALL have narcissistic tendencies, even if not the full personality disorder. I think about how angry I can get if I am criticized or how I go into panic mode if I think people don't like me. These are narcissistic traits, which cause me a great deal of distress, and so I feel sorry for those who are struggling with these things on a greater scale. We don't have to like or tolerate behaviors that are hurtful, but it doesn't mean we have to hate the narcissist who is doing those things. They are operating under a heavy handicap and hopefully we can have a compassionate attitude towards them, reflecting the way the Lord and the angels look at them.
Nadine, thank you for making this really powerful point. It is important, as you noted, to protect ourselves from being harmed or manipulated, but certainly that doesn't eradicate the potential for goodwill. Angelic behavior truly does give us a fantastic blueprint for loving wisely.
Scott Peck, the Catholic psychologist, felt that narcissism was a spiritual disorder. He put it quite succinctly, the "unsubmitted will", even wrote a book about this disorder, called "People of the Lie". My experience with them is that they are not automatons but are aware very much of what harm they inflict. Quite a few of them will even admit that they "like the way they are". I don't think that narcissism should be lumped together with disorders such as schizophrenia where emotions are not under control. Narcissists are very calculating. It doesn't always come from abuse either. Much narcissism in our society comes from egotism. Children whose egos are allowed to run wild, in other words, spoiled rotten, frequently turn out to be narcissists. I don't feel sorry for them at all, except I hate to see people willingly going to hell.
I love your kindly outlook, even though it may be incorrect. A narcissistic personality may be due to genetics. Scientists have found that the brains of narcissists and clinical psychopaths are different from so-called normal people. In all cases, the Amygdala is not working properly. This part of the brain gives us access to kindness, caring, empathy and compassion. In such people, they simply have no access to these spiritual qualities. So you can love them but they are not going to change. Why a spirit would choose to be born this way is beyond my knowledge, unless they VALUE being a hard non-emotional person because they have specific goals and do not want to be bothered with the softer human qualities. I would consider this a wrong path leading downward in evolution.
I am sorry but I have had extensive experience with destructive narcissists. I even believe there is a bad spirit lurking in there. I don't think Scott Peck was incorrect. If their brains are not working properly, that could be the excuse for any evil in the world but it is generally admitted we all have free will according to the degree of intelligence we are born with. The moral code is written in our hearts and minds. Peck says that their will cannot be crossed. Just try saying NO to any of them and see what happens. They are BAD.
I happen to be a psychiatrist as well as a Swedenborgian. In my training and experience I think that people can change, even people with personality disorders. However, regardless of whether it is genetic, traumatic childhood experiences, or just plain choosing self over others, the fact remains that every one is a child that God wanted and created, and we should always hope for the best for all people, including the narcissists. Again, I want to reiterate that if there is someone in a person's life who is abusive and harmful, it is important to protect oneself. But this doesn't give us permission to hate them. If they in fact can not change, then God will take that into account and not hold them responsible. If they are willingly choosing self over everyone else of free will, then there is always the possibility of God changing their hearts. The classic psychiatric textbook explanation of how narcissism is born is that a child is ignored, belittled, unloved, and counted as worthy unless they are doing something extraordinary that the parent values, like showing talent in music, or sports, or academics, etc. The child grows up with the message that they are only loveable if they can be better than other people. Inside, the narcissist is actually someone with a terrible feeling of inferiority and worthlessness, but that intolerable feeling is covered over incredibly thoroughly with a thick wall of superiority and bravado because the person can't bear the feeling of being unloveable. I believe that can change, but whether or not I am correct in that, it rematins that this is a state worthy of compassion and mercy. It may have to be done from afar, for protection's sake, but I really see it as a pitiable condition. And again, we all have these tendencies. We just are hopefully better able to temper them. When I see the tendencies toward self flare up in myself, and see how they are not all that different from a narcissist, I think, "There but for the grace of God go I."
thank you for this. funny, this video played randomly after a different video and today i impulsively moved out of my dads house after years of narcissistic abuse that me, being an empath, was staying in because i see the damage causing his behavior and its not really “him”.... but i decided that any empathy and genuine love he has is buried deeper than i thought, if not completely destroyed, and i cant continue to destroy myself trying to “save” my father. it hurts, so so bad. (i have to keep reminding myself that its okay to say im hurting)
emma, my heart goes out to you. What a painful situation, and I'm sure that was a very hard decision, to move out. I think you did the right thing, because it does not help you or your father to stay in a situation in which he keeps hurting you. And even though you did the right thing, yes, it hurts terribly. That's a testament to your love for your dad. I hope you can strengthen yourself in the belief that it is best for both of you. Maybe there will be some helpful thoughts in our show "How To Love," which talks about the fact that love has to be expressed differently in different situations, and sometimes love means you stop allowing someone to hurt you. Wishing you peace and healing. ua-cam.com/video/i1vLrF-BeGY/v-deo.html
Narcissists can destroy the very Light of Divine Truth in us. Locks us into low vibratory frequency even after you leave the house just to go to work. The negativity affects us all day and those around us, where we empaths would be higher vibration otherwise. To remove ourselves from this immediately and over time allows our spirit and body to heal and the knowledge gained from the experience causes us to be more understanding than we would be had we not had a Narc in our lives. It is an inverted way to spiritual growth having had the entire experience, which is hell on earth. May you now experience true healing daily my friend. I am 3 years away from the Narcissist and much healing has taken place. Watch the Utubes and learn everything you can, then move away from the thoughts that continue over time. Do not hang on the ladder of victimhood forever. I still struggle with that bit doing so much better. Not everyone understands your need to heal from this. May an army of Angels come to comfort you.
im a twelve year old empath, very intelligent for my age, this comment made me cry as i realised that i have been feeling the same way about my mum too, although i can’t move out i figured that the most effective thing i can do is to love her with all i have, disregarding her actions towards me, so that she realises that being committed to love is way stronger than hate.
@@kairomain you really are a smart kid! And so loving too. I went through a very abusive childhood, but I was able to figure out what was causing the people around me to act that way. I was about your age, too. The love we empaths feel for everyone, especially family and friends, helps us to understand how God is helping us through it. You're so amazing to see that hate is not the answer. There are so many that take that road, ya know? The love you feel helps you understand them and that is the first step to healing and protecting yourself from lifelong sadness. I'm so happy to read your comment. You're a good soul. All the best to you: Love and Light. ❤️🥲🙏✌️
Dr. Warner I appreciate that you used Christianity and the crusades as an example of aggressive religious methods. As a Cristian it is easier to see Muslims in that role. Yet the truth is that Christians are also guilty of aggressively defending their religion. No matter which religion employs violence it's always wrong.
So true, Jay. Lots of "Christian" misdeeds, and lots of other kinds, too. We're all limited humans, no matter how we label ourselves. But here's to those who are devotedly trying to LIVE love of God and love of the neighbor!
While Chelsea was explaining what separates the "three levels" of heaven, I found that I tend to experience all of those states (and worse,) throughout each day. I get excited when I am at the 'motivated by love' state, but the 'just doing it because I know I'm supposed to' state gets me through, at other times.
Those are totally awesome states to experience! And life is a process -- we sometimes experience higher states and sometimes lower ones. Swedenborg uses the times of day as correspondences: morning equates to feeling close to God, and evening feeling distanced from Him. The good news is that dusk brings new opportunities to move back into the light.
I really enjoyed the questions you shared and the answers were great! In my mind some of them overlapped and could be related. A person who belittles another's beliefs perhaps can't think rationally because of a mental illness. What popped into my mind was how certain churches seem to attract people with the mental illnesses mentioned by Swedenborg. Birds of a feather.....They feel more comfortable with their own kind and they probably reinforce each other in their irrational thinking. It is a challenge to talk with some of these folks who know they have the right understanding and are intent on "saving" others. I like your answer about how to relate with such a person. Friendliness and kindness are effective in melting their hearts to the point that they might share the rationality of their beliefs. Sometimes we don't really know what we think, or why, until we're put into a position of explaining it to someone else who is willing to listen. It really is hard to get your mind around the fact that there is one ultimate spiritual truth, but that each of us probably has a different understanding of that truth, but I agree that that is the truth of it! Understanding this one concept will help bring us all together in harmony and unity, and that's what everyone wants and needs. Christian churches have traditionally not understood this and that's how we've ended up with thousands of separate churches who read the same Bible and believe in the same Jesus. I just learned that our beloved Pilgrims who left England to settle in the Massachusetts colony for religious freedom executed by hanging three Quakers in 1659 for their beliefs! In a sense, religious truth is relative to our own capacity to understand it. If we can think of it that way, then we can not just be tolerant of other people's understanding, but accept these understandings as something we might learn from. The real devil in all of this is the ego. People attach their understanding to their egos, and anyone who has a different view is seen as attacking their egos. Maybe that's where love and friendship need to show up. I agree that Swedenborg was far ahead of his time in his understanding of mental illness and science in general. I'm sure there were few people in his day who could appreciate his thinking. Maybe there were, somewhere in the world, but they just didn't write it down. In many cultures you just couldn't express your real thoughts without being killed for thinking the wrong things. I'm sure that Swedenborg had to be careful who he expressed his thoughts to.
I'm so glad these Q & A's resonated with you, Harlan! I agree with you about how different churches have divided over their understanding of truth. This breakdown has led to some pretty dynamic shifts in Christianity, such as the Great Schism. What really moves me is Swedenborg's approach to understanding truth, and how, as Curtis mentioned, we all can glean aspects of it relative to our understanding and reception. This allows me to hold divine truth, as I receive it, in a way that becomes inviting (and curious) towards others and not judgmental of their reception. Or at least that's how I try and hold it ;)
I'll say it this way, let's say a person belonged to an exotic religion, a harmless one, wholesome, even one that loved God and Jesus, but socially was rejected, and even squashed by authorities. Now without a community to call one's own, a member of a particular religious set, IDK Levites, order of Melchizedek, Essenes, what have you is disbanded and their society is in ruin. So where do these people go to find fellowship? I would discourage calling Christians names and such because if Christianity was outlawed, where would the Christians go? Perhaps you may have demographic statistical evidence, to offer?
I wouldn't call it mental illness, but the fact that we are all on different levels of awareness, knowledge and understanding and/or simply vibrating to a different drum as Swedenborg explains. And these divisions exist in every single religion and philosophical belief system, btw, not exclusive only to Christians. There are many sects of Judaism with violent disagreements, also same w/ Hinduism, Buddhism etc. People who are over zealous are often new to the ideas that they push, and have great enthusiasm and want everyone to know what they know. They haven't calmed down yet. Knowledge and experience usually humbles a person, and calms one's zeal after a while. And with regards to the bible, not everyone interprets it the same way. There are great disagreements about it. It is not easy in some parts to interpret the meaning. And some people DO know more than others, or have a clearer understanding of spiritual truths and may want to share their knowledge and awareness, and try to correct and straighten out, perhaps some mis-interpretations of the nature of the spiritual world, just as the work of Swedenborg attempts to do. And others, well. are just delusional. What can you do but wait for them to mature and grow?
Also, its really hard for us, and wrong for us, imo, to try to judge the people who lived centuries ago and try to figure out their mindset. We haven't experienced what they experienced. They didn't have what we have now. They are our forefathers and they are the ones who got us to the place where we are now. We must recognize them for who they are, what they went through, the sacrifices and struggles, etc.and have gratitude, not condemn them for their lack of spiritual awareness.
Thanks for all your great work. I really enjoy your videos and I appreciate all the work you all put into researching and making your videos. They are very helpful.
This is brilliant, esp the lady answering Karen's question about accountability of Narcissists!! This is how I can still be friends with my exhusband.. I know he's not ok.. so i keep myself safe, but also actively love him
That sounds like a very spiritual stance, Soaping -- being able to love him and wish him well while keeping a safe distance. Healthy boundaries! Thanks for your comment, and thanks for being here with us!
I think the law of attraction applies in the afterlife but not necessarily in the physical world. The new age movement gets this wrong in my opinion. Here on Earth we come in contact with people of MANY different points of view and energies. This happens on purpose so that we are exposed to new things. On Earth, good comes in intimate contact with evil, and hopefully, good comes of it. This doesn't seem to happen in the afterlife. People of very dis-like energies meet here on Earth. Seeing something "evil" in another DOES NOT mean that you possess the same characteristic (again, the new age gets this wrong). You can notice something destructive, dishonest, "wrong", or evil in another, simply because you NOTICE it. It doesn't mean that you are the same simply because you see "it" in another.
I totally agree with you, alex, that the "law of attraction" does not work on the physical, earthly plane the way it does in the afterlife. Have you seen our show about this? ua-cam.com/video/mIMKCKRC7rI/v-deo.html
Have encountered narcissists, some even in my own family, and, sometimes you have to love and pray for them from a distance. Feel God has a place for them, as He does for everyone. Try to focus on my own spiritual growth, not criticize others. Criticizing others will do them or myself no good.
Such a compassionate response to difficult people in your life, Monica. Believing that EVERYONE is a beloved child of God, on a particular path led by God, does help -- sometimes from a distance!
@@offTheLeftEye Once Googled, "do sociopaths go to Heaven?" The answer was, "sociopaths do not go to Heaven, because what good they do doesn't come from a place of love, neither do they go to Hell, as they did not choose to do evil, but are acting in self-preservation, so they go in-between Heaven and Hell, (which I would consider Purgatory). You may want to Google this question yourself and see what comes up.
@@monicaperez2843 Swedenborg offers a different answer, which we have shared in this video. That God can reveal what in a person's character is due to external, hereditary and bodily issues (which can be purged) and what is due to deliberate, deeper intentions. It is the deeper intentions that matter, which only God can see and reveal. No one is left in limbo or purgatory. What are your thoughts on both of these points of view?
@@offTheLeftEye Can't recall what organization shared this, but they said sociopaths don't go to Heaven nor Hell, implying they were in a Purgatory type place. The fact that we are human means we are in God's image. Unfortunately, I think there is a "line in the sand." Don't think Purgatory or Hell, for that matter, is forever. Purgatory is like a sanitarium. Am sorry, I don't think I will agree 100 percent with everything you teach (neither I do with anyone else). Have seen the horrible damage sociopaths have done, and persons in history, such as dictators.
@@monicaperez2843 Oh, please don't think we are wanting you to agree with us 100%. It just seemed that you were unhappy with the view from that other organization, so I was wondering if anything we share here was resonating with you better. We totally respect that you must decide for yourself what makes the most sense!
right you guys said it all Love this Question and answer download .ianswers some questions I had re angels Thank you for this download I'm going to save it
Swedenborg says over and over again that the freedom that we experience is only 'apparent' freedom. This is an unpleasant idea at first, but when it is considered for long enough, it becomes obvious that this is a true statement. Quakers were mentioned in this session. This religion was imbued with some very serious sexual misconduct. The founder of the religion was not responsible for this condition. I do not know if this is still true in our times, but Swedenborg was very critical of Quakerism in his era. Swedenborg says that spirits may pass through many communities for a long period of 'time', until finding his or her true home. Swedenborg visited many diverse communities at all levels of existence. He was guided by angels who in turn were governed directly from the Lord. He did not seem to be guided by similar spirits except in the most general sense of those who trust in, and are in service to, the Lord. Thanks again for a great discussion.
Thanks for these thoughts, Ken! "Apparent freedom" is an interesting premise, and I'm reminded of the varying types of freedom between the natural and spiritual world. When I think of freedom in the natural world, I come to the idea of spiritual equilibrium. We have the freedom and faculties to develop a heavenly or hellish spiritual character over the entirety of our life. In the spiritual world, inhabitants are in freedom, but there are regulations. Here's a passage from Swedenborg's Spiritual Diary: "One Law of order in the government of the universe by the Lord is that everyone is left in freedom. For without freedom, there is no life, nor any worship, and without freedom there is no correction. There is freedom in the other life also, but an apparent freedom. Everyone is allowed to will, an ability they think to be their own, nor can they distinguish it from the freedom in bodily life,* as they have told me several times. But there is a difference."
I think we have to be careful of branding narcissistic disorder as a mental illness. One is fully conscious of what is right and wrong here and they still choose to manipulate, control etc etc. They function in the world as normal and they usually are also quite rational when they choose to be! So please revisit this issue. I would have thought this is a type of demon possession (sirens?)?
That's a fair point-- there is certainly a line to be mindful of when discussing these issues. That being said, I think Rev. Wake did a good job of providing the criteria whereby her conclusion would be acceptable. Her logical progression of narcissistic behavior, to personality disorders, leading into mental illness makes sense to me. It's important to note that, as you said, we have to be careful "branding" certain disorders under a "blanket" framework. Each case is unique and there should be sensitivity involved regardless.
Hi FM, my life has been infested with narcissists from childhood, so I was forced to face the possibility that it is spiritual warfare. This to me is a more likely explanation. I have been involved in many 'survivors of narcissists' forums online and it is incredible how they act out of what seems to be a playbook. They often say the same things. They 'like the way they are' which means they don't care a fig for the suffering they cause in others. Sexual immorality is high on the list. An indication of the possible demonic roots is the uncontrollable cursing. They start and cannot stop. This is horrible around kids. I could go on and on about them and write several books. Actually the Catholic psychologist Scott Peck did, one of them called 'People of the Lie'. I found something funny about them while growing up that they even prefer to believe lies rather than the truth. This is quite an indicator of severe spiritual sickness.
Let me share my experience with narcissism. I was called a narcissist by my adult daughter. She felt my vibe throughout her life of partial resentment that when I had her I was not fully developed into what I believed God was calling me to be. That took a huge toll on my marriage and motherhood. So, she estranged herself from me as an adult. Did I know consciously that I was neglecting my daughter's emotional needs?? No, - but I knew subconsciously. If I had slowed downand listened to God - I would have put her first - knowing that I come after. IT IS FEAR THAT CREATES NARCISSISTIC BEHAVIOR.
all quest lead to Swedenborg... After a year of extensively reading all sorts of spiritual theories, I found all of them interesting but most of the time the opposite theories were also fascinating and made sense to me. In this state of confusion, I always go back to Swedenborg cause his writings resonate with me the most.
Please note that ES has always referred back to the Lord from where we and he got the Love and Truth. Swedenborg is only a messenger who was blessed by the Lord with the task of telling us how it works.
I love your curiosity in searching for spiritual resources and guidance. It's heartening to hear how Swedenborg's Writings provide a central resonance in your development!
Absolutely they do. His books have given me an insight into the spiritual realm and an understanding of what life could be. Exciting times! Love you guys
…Some NDE´er tell that there was a „before“ comming to earth. So my question ist; what did Swedenborg tell about the origin of our soul ?! Did he ever mentioned things like “soul-plans” or a special purpose of our live. A special thing that we decided to learn. Or is the soul created in a child. Every new human a new soul and the life that follows is the consequence of “free will”- decisions of others and ours…? I read often Swedenborg and did watch EVERY episode of Swedenborg and life. Most episodes not only once… ;) Thanks a lot for doing the show!
Hi, Michael. We're so glad to know that you have been enjoying our channel! To answer your very good question, Swedenborg learned that a person's individual soul is created at the same time that their physical body is created. He learned that before physical birth, we existed as part of the mind--or, thoughts and feelings--of God. And yes, we certainly each have a unique purpose to fulfill, a special place in the grand scheme, if we choose to pursue it. I think of it not so much as a special lesson to learn, but rather a special, useful function and purpose to realize and fulfill. If you want to rewatch some shows that touch on these topics, check out "Does My Life Matter?" ua-cam.com/video/33FfPQsf_zU/v-deo.html "Do We Reincarnate?" ua-cam.com/video/kVYKEfpnxj0/v-deo.html and "How to Find Your Ture Self" ua-cam.com/video/3m9uAecvftM/v-deo.html
This question is basically about ectoplasm. Was ectoplasm known In Swedenborg’s time? I read that ectoplasm comes from a medium in a dream like trance and is made up of a mediums cells that the spirits “ thought force“ can step into and become seen in the physical world. Apparently these spirits use energy from their dimension and combine it with our energy here to produce various things that our 5 senses can see, hear, feel, etc. like the experiment that took place in the village of Scole in the 1990’s. I don’t understand this, but any explanation will help. Thanks.
Since he was writing in the 1700s, Swedenborg was using different terminology, so it can sometimes be hard to tell when he might be talking about something that would be expressed in different words today. He does talk about different levels of spiritual substance, and there is a level of spiritual substance that is very close to the physical level. We talk a bit about this kind of lower level substance in our show "Do Ghosts Exist" ua-cam.com/video/M85ttx9Hzm0/v-deo.html There were definitely spirits who could affect the physical matter of his body and things around him.
A question related to a recent episode: Many people have asked why god allows suffering in the world. The answer is usually that god allows people the free will to choose good or evil. But to me this is not an adequate answer, and Swedenborg's description of the spirals of our mind is a good illustration of this. Swedenborg says that god creates our minds with an upper half that naturally pulls towards heaven and a lower half that naturally pulls towards hell, and we sit in the space between them. Considering this, and considering just simple observation of life, it seems clear to me that human beings were specifically designed to suffer. So the answer to the question "Why does god allow suffering in the world?" seems to be "Because suffering is what he wants." I am not saying this with any sense of spite or malice, it is just an observation of life. The suffering and struggle and division of the world is not just external, it reaches all the way deep inside of us, into our human design itself. Does Swedenborg go into any greater detail on this subject?
Great question, BrandonD. Actually, according to what Swedenborg learned, God did not create us with a mind that has lower half pulling us toward hell. God originally created humanity with a mind that was totally in Divine order, looking only toward heaven. It was over a very, very long time that humanity gradually used the God-given sense of autonomy to focus more and more on lower, external, and physical pursuits, which polluted and corrupted the original form of the human mind. It might help to compare it to someone whose body has been poisoned over a long period of time by toxic substances, or who has a debilitating infection or painful bodily disorder. Imagine a doctor able to help this patient. What the doctor wants is healing and for the person to feel and function well and in good health. However, the only way to get there is through some painful processes of detoxing or other treatments or surgeries. Does the doctor want the patient to suffer? No. But the doctor knows that in cases like these, the only way to better health and happiness and healing is through some processes that will cause some temporary suffering. Since humanity "fell" from its original state of being in the order of heaven, we have all inherited a corrupted form of mind, with a very strong pull downward. God does not want suffering, but he wants healing and happiness for us. At present in the story of humanity, the only way of getting people back into the heavenly order that we were intended to enjoy is through spiritual detoxing, which involves suffering. It involves letting go of a lot of lower-self desires and cravings that we are prone to from heredity-a spiritual detoxing process, weaning off of our "drugs". Like the doctor, God wants the healing, and so wants us to go through the process that will get us there. And like a good doctor, God will do anything possible to help us get through that suffering part. The promise is that the original design of humanity can be restored someday, and that humanity is on a long path of waking up to what is needed to get back to that heavenly design-a heavenly state of mind. Then there will not be a need for suffering anymore. And any of us today willing to go through the suffering of letting go of lower-self desires and agendas are helping move the whole of humanity along toward that goal.
Thank you for that extensive answer, I really appreciate you taking the time :) I try not to deal in things like the fall of man from eden, because that is not something I can directly know about. I just know about here and now, and I was born with that same divided mind that swedenborg describes, and god created me, so from my perspective god *did* create my mind. That body analogy you gave makes a lot of sense if reincarnation is a reality, because the same soul is poisoning itself and then healing itself over the course of many lifetimes. But in swedenborg's model of the universe, it is like one person poisons his body, and then that person vacates his body and a new person is born into that poisoned body and must deal with the negative consequences through no fault of his own. He has no opportunity to make the right or wrong choice, and this seems rather unjust. If the answer to the above dilemma is that all men would equally choose to poison their body, well this doesn't feel right either. Why would the entirety of humanity be designed in such a way that we would *all* choose to poison our body rather than make it healthy? There is some strangeness in this subject that I'm having difficulty reconciling. But I really appreciate your feedback and I love your youtube channel. I welcome any further feedback, but don't feel obligated because I'm sure this discussion could be dragged on for pages and pages :)
I think it's not something I could make clear unless you can picture that all members of humanity, past and present, are connected like cells in a body. Our actions and choices all effect each other. We each have personal freewill, and can open up to let God lift us out of the fallen human condition, but we are all born into the shared human condition. We are not born into someone else's poisoned body. We are each cells born into a big picture that has become sick, and we can each either add to the sickness or be a part of the healing process. When there are more cells choosing to be poison, the whole is more sick. When there are more cells choosing to be healed and to be part of the healing, then the whole becomes more and more healthy. However, the Lord has provided that every cell who wants his help and engages in the process can be lifted up and protected from the poison, and receive heavenly life. Maybe it would be easier for you to picture it as an environment. Say you are born into a town that is run down and polluted. You are affected by the problems of starting out in that polluted environment. But you are NOT trapped there. You have the freedom to either make the effort to move somewhere else, and/or to work to clean up the town. It's not true that a person "has no opportunity to make the right or wrong choice, and this seems rather unjust." We are born into a polluted spiritual environment, but we absolutely can do something about it. We can choose to make efforts that lead us out of that into a good spiritual environment. And if we don't throw more trash or pollution into the town, we are not making it worse. If we actually make some efforts to clean it, we are making it better. Do you see what I mean? We're born into a mess made by others before us, but we can be totally empowered to make change for ourselves and others.
Thank you for the response. I think you might have mistaken what I meant by the phrase "has no opportunity to make the right or wrong choice, and this seems rather unjust." - I do think we can do something to change our circumstances, rather I meant that a person must suffer the consequences of past humanity's mistakes without ever having the opportunity to *not* make those same mistakes themselves. I think the ingrained idea of an eternal hell in the classical christian sense is what clouds the mind here. If there is an eternal hell for individuals, and some individuals are born into more negative circumstances through no fault of their own, and therefore more likely to err and fall into sin, this feels unjust. But I recall in your other videos that it is the INTENTION that is the important thing, rather than the specific actions. So even a person who appears bad might be actually good in his particular harsh circumstances. Thank you again for taking the time to respond, it was helpful!
Yes, you are very right: it's the intention that matters, not the actions, and no one is held responsible for actions due to ignorance or other things beyond their control. And the more I read Swedenborg, the more I think that hell is not eternal after all. On the topic of external life circumstances seeming unfair for some people, we discuss that in our show "Life Isn't Fair... Or Is It?" ua-cam.com/video/42BEBqN0H3Y/v-deo.html I'm glad you ask these kinds of questions, Brandon! I believe that God is Love and Justice itself, so it's good to be on a journey of trying to understand how that applies when what we see around us is a very imperfect world.
I have become aware that some people who are not so religious seem to believe in their parents on the other side making them more powerful or aware of other people's thoughts, which I believe is just spirits finding them this way in a controlling way. Having them play control games with others. Them not knowing the truth, of what is happening. Being used by these spirits, without being fully aware of it. People being deceived by a source that is not marrying truth and goodness.
At around 11:00 regarding the question of debating absolute truth and belief in heaven and hell, as many others have said, spiritual belief in any subject is really a matter of intuition (or of the heart as stated in the video) because it's only through intuition that God's spirit talks to us. Intellectual arguments usually lead nowhere since anyone can argue any point or make counter arguments. This is why in the law, a lawyer will usually never talk about truth or falsity, but how well they successfully argued a specific point in the law. This intellectual exercise very skillfully misses the point of knowing any kind of absolute truth.
Thanks for sharing these insights, Terry! I like your juxtaposition of lawyers steering away from truth or falsity in light of an intellectual exercise of debate in context of the law. I might also add that lawyers often have to move the jurors in a more emotional way depending on the case, particularly is their client has been harmed in any manner. I find it interesting how spiritual belief (or the acknowledgment of truth divine) becomes fully realized through application. In other words, we take a spiritual principle, hold it with our intellect, and then from there can see its authenticity in the application of such truth into our lives. All of revelation speaks to our states, and are things we can grow from. That's how faith becomes alive!
Hi. I listened to your ending and summary. I know God is present in everything. it's the concept that he doesn't step in and stop bad things happening. This is so unfare. He heals peoples minds and bodies as i've seen in my own life. I'm not afraid of dying. I enjoyed todays video . especially that narcissists don't go to hell for their behaviour. I am co-dependent and have attracted many (3) narc relationships. I studied this and learned why I was doing this and why I was a door mat for others to walk over. They each mirrored my mother. So why does God allow children to be abused and doesn't allow angels to step in top help them. I need help with that one concept. I believe and understand most of swedednborg's teachings. It's just that one thing. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Hi, Ellie. I appreciate your compassionate heart. Please watch this short clip, offering some thoughts about your question, and see what you think: ua-cam.com/video/UIMfRE0wmOA/v-deo.html
Wow good video this. I have an opinion on the Question about "Are there difrent truths for difrent people" just something I learned a while back, its kind of a corospondence involving a 🌈. We all see a rainbow in difrent colour formation due to the fraction of light hitting our retna in the eye ,some people see red as the first colour and some see yellow , so two people next to eachother see difrent formation due to our difrent positions and height etc 🙂
I love this illustration, kennyway! Yes, we're all a unique combination of love and wisdom, good and truth. It's so good to keep this in mind, when we look out and see such a broad range of opinions and stances in this world!
Aup I've watched a lot of your videos, and the one where you said about spirits attaching to people to feed of there addictions I'm myself a painkiller addict and battled for the last five years I'm in England so it's easy to buy otc codeine but the also contain 200mgs of ibuprofen per tablet I'm currently having to remember which pharmacy I went to and who served me last ext I've been in rehab twice and I genuinely don't want to use anymore my doctors said my kidneys are low functioning I'm currently using 36 tablets a day as opposed to max safe dose of only six the sad truth is I'm addicted to the codeine but have to take the dangerouse amounts of ibuprofen as well, I've resigned myself that I'll be dead within five more years according to my doctors, I don't know what Eles to do, I play an acoustic guitar and tried to express my struggle though songs I've wrote I'm 42 on new years eve and I'm so lost, I've been reading about what consciousness is and what's where n how the afterlife fits into the whole point of being I've always been intrested in the next world that I'm just not living in this world to the fullest I guess the reason why is because I've always felt closer to the afterlife than I have to this life, theres so much more to my story,I'd like to say your videos really do help me, take care and all the best from derby east Midlands England
Hey Duncan, Thanks so much for sharing your story here and letting us hear about the struggle you’re going through. Your story really touches my heart. I have many thoughts in response, and my hope and prayer is that by sharing some of them, it communicates the love I and many others have for you! There’s a story in the Bible about the prophet Elisha who is surrounded by an army about to attack him, and his servant is afraid, but Elisha says, “Do not be afraid, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them” (2 Kings 6:16). And he prays for the Lord to open the [spiritual] eyes of his servant. The servant’s eyes are opened and he sees “the mountain full of horses and chariots of fire.” Mountains are a symbol of divine love, and the horses and chariots are the powerful ideas rooted in that love that we can use to fight against our destructive behaviors. I hope that you’re given glimpses or some sense of the power of the Lord’s good will for you. “For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope” (Jeremiah 29:11). Is there any way I could help, to be a part of your community of support? I remember when I was quitting smoking and drinking, I had a sign on my door that said, “Just for today, I will…” and a quote from Swedenborg about the importance of taking care of my body so I could serve the Lord’s will (actually the quote said something like, “to be useful in this world and the next”--we are useful to both worlds where we are right now!). Know you’re not alone and you don’t have to do it alone. Are you already connected to a narcotics anonymous 12 step group in your area? I hope that you keep making music and I pray that you gain freedom from this addiction, and the clarity and strength that you long for. I’m so glad the videos on our channel are helping you. With love.
Chelsea Odhner hello Chelsea thank you for your kind words and I will check out the bible passages you refer about I uesd to go to alcohol and drug counselling yes I too had a drink proplem but I just replaced the drink for codeine, people say well that's it you done it once you can do it again I drank every day for 22 years I've only been on codeine for five but it has a lot more power over me than the drink did really I can't figure that out,anyway going to those meetings made me feel worse I'm on medication for social anxiety I can't even perform at open mica now like I use to live doing I've lost two marridges one to drink the other to codeine I see my daughter beathany a few times each week and she visits me when she can bless her, I'm gonna keep trying to taper off the pills and I will always keep trying but I'm sure I'll take them to my grave so to speak once again thank you for your kindness and God bless you Chelsea Many thanks,,Duncan.
That's really hard and there is a lot to grieve. I totally get that there's one part of you that "genuinely doesn't want to use anymore" and another part that is resigned to "using to your grave." It's a battle of two wills as Peter Rhodes says in our show on Do Spirits Play a Role in Addiction. I am reminded of this passage from Swedenborg's book Divine Providence: "This is a battle against things that are actually within us, things that we feel are part of us; and we cannot fight against ourselves except from a deeper self, and only because of a freedom there. It then follows that the inner self is fighting against the outer self at such times, is doing so in freedom, and is forcing the outer self to obey. This is self-compulsion; and we can see that it is not inconsistent with our freedom and rationality, but quite in accord with them." --Divine Providence 147 I'm glad you'll keep trying--you're worth it! And I hope you feel free to stay in touch with us here.
I agree 100 percent with the lady at the end talking about disorders as narcissism eventually about psychopathy and all similar where a person can not be held accountable for their actions at all. I have this opinion already like 20 years and I was bombarding all the preachers and Christian friends I knew with this question and always got some stupid answer that these people are doing it on purpose and they will go to hell. Many of these people are not my friends anymore as I found their opinions just "not intelligent". Not sure what intelligence they are operating from and what God do they believe in but I respect it from distance. I speak about this narcissistic subject a lot in my videos feel free to have a look. Also that these people can be possessed by bad spirits and I also speak that they are not accountable so we should forgive them their damage on us. Many times I think of what may happen to my ex-girlfriend if I pray for her and God can do some good work or miracle with her to change her consciousness into an empathetic one. This is something I don't know.
Sounds like you have developed a very compassionate heart through a very difficult experience, Tome. If she wants to change, the Lord can help her do that -- if it is something within her rational control. If not, in the next life where earthly concerns fall away, she'll have a chance to learn and grow and choose her spiritual direction.
@@offTheLeftEye Thank you, but no, not at all. I had everything in place and was thriving and then life decided to throw a wrench into the machine and I've fallen down the mountain once again. I am losing the strength and ambition I used to have to immediately start climbing back up. The more times I fall, the weaker I get and because of this weakness, I have fallen right back down to the ground, unable to grab onto something because there's nothing on the mountain to physically support me. I'm standing at the bottom looking up, once more, wondering if I should even bother and just lay down and go to sleep, hoping The Lord will do His job and come and save me. I've asked Him a million times in my lifetime, I wonder what he's thinking. I know he's at the top looking down, watching me, and knows that any minute I will make that decision to lay down for good. Jesus help me. Let me live the life I want. Helping others, working and doing something I love, contributing to society. Give me more strength. Great strength. I'm getting old and losing the battle. Amen. 😭❤️🙏
@@debramercer5896 I'm so sorry to hear that! I wish I could take away your pain. I hope you feel the hand of God lifting you up and carrying you through this difficult time soon, my friend. Sending you love and praying for some peace for you!
@@offTheLeftEye I want you to know that it's not the real me talking like a victim of life. It's having to live with the disease/evil spirits. You know, I believe that because I have been so oppressed from birth, that my brain grew into a dysfunction that continues. Please know I don't want to give up. I may eventually just lose the battle... just because. Please pray hard for me... I do, too, always talk to Jesus. I can feel my spirit say "just remember if you keep praying and trying, you'll make it". And I can feel the evil spirits saying "it will all be over if you just let go". I don't believe if I let go that I'll go to where my parents and brother are... at first... for maybe a very long time. 😭🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏😭😔
@@debramercer5896 I hope you know that whatever happens, we do not judge you. We wish you peace and comfort, and we know that the Lord is with you working for the same. You are in our prayers, my friend!
This perspective on the crusades is so out of whack. They were very much a response to centuries of Muslim violent aggression against the Christian kingdoms in the Levant. The entire region around the Mediterranean was Christian until it was taken by force.
I am not a scholar about the Crusades, Laereom, so I will not debate you here. But the point is about people hurting one another in the name of religion.
I would like to ask, will I go to hell because I have had little praying time and reading the bible these lasts 6 months? Or is it a demon trying to make me feel hopeless? Really would like to listen your answer.
Hello,.. regarding what is said here about "Mental Illness", I would direct this person to Jerry Marzinsky and his considerable experience on this topic. Firstly, the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual whatever edition, is a compete work of fiction. Secondly, in my own instance , and Jerry's experience, Entities are the Primary cause of the mental torment which is symptomatic of "Mental Illness". This torment is made possible by Traumas, that occur mostly in childhood. The Entities have created the world and thus the conditions to favour these traumatic conditions. Drugs and alcohol exacerbate these traumas. Swedenborg may have a different perspective if he was alive today.
Thanks for mentioning Jerry Marzinsky's work, Mark. We've done some interviews with him and it's very powerful to hear him describe what he's witnessed. I think these four shows feature a conversation with Jerry: How to Deal with Evil Spirits: ua-cam.com/video/RmWrAoML2hE/v-deo.html (I hr 15 mins) How to Free Your Mind from Hell: ua-cam.com/video/B832ykXZeYU/v-deo.html (1 hr 29 mins) The Lies Evil Spirits Tell Us: ua-cam.com/video/Qaqd9Fhsxpg/v-deo.html (1 hr 19 mins) Do Spirits Play a Role in Addiction?: ua-cam.com/video/lMxdZiguxlI/v-deo.html (1 hr 1 min) I pray for all who suffer this kind of torment to find relief!
If someone spits in your face it is assault and should be dealt with immediately by the police. Spitting at someone is just a beginning and more injurious rhings will come later.
Thanks for sharing these thoughts with us! I agree that situations like these need to be addressed...and there are a few ways that people have traditionally responded to such adversity, as noted in the video.
It's a confusing topic, Trevor! I think her point was that personality disorders (like narcissistic personality disorder) can be equated with mental illness, and in a state of mental illness, we don't have access to our *rationality* -- that is, we are not functioning from a place of mental/spiritual wholeness. When that is the case, Swedenborg says people are not held SPIRITUALLY responsible for their actions. That doesn't mean that the harm they cause is OK -- causing harm is not OK -- but rather that it doesn't necessarily mean they're heading for hell. When we pass over, and are free of our physical bodies and the various illnesses they cause, we WILL be operating in a state of mental/spiritual wholeness, and then we CAN choose whether we are committed to self-centeredness and greediness, or whether we are open-hearted to other people and to God. So I think her comment was focused on the spiritual future of the narcissist, not on the people affected by the narcissist. I wish we could protect and defend all those people, for sure! Does any of that clarify it at all?
Did Swedenborg gather information from people in the afterlife unknown to a man living in 18th century Northern Europe? Like when he met Chinese people in Heaven, did they mention the Buddha, the Bhagavan Gita from the mouths on Indians in the afterlife?
Hi Moesy! Yes but I can't say for certain whether they were technically "unknown" to him because there's evidence that he had some knowledge of Eastern cultures based on the books he had in his library. He definitely interacted with angels from many different parts of the world (and beyond!) and that was partly how he gained his understanding of the universality of divine love and wisdom. I don't think he ever specifically mentions the Buddha or the Bhagavad Gita but he makes more general statements about divine revelation throughout the world/universe and how people picture and relate to God differently. Does this help to answer your question?
Great question, Robert! Our panelists talk about this in this old Q&A episode, at about 15 minutes in: ua-cam.com/video/7b--acA4jQY/v-deo.html I hope it's helpful!
This is very interesting thank you for your work. I haven't yet watched all of it but I just wanted to point out a thing about the Crusades mentioned in the answer to Robbie's question, because I think it's important and it bothers me... The first Crusade actually happened following years and years of oppression and massacre from Muslim communities toward Christian communities, this was indeed a violent response from Christians but with the goal to save those communities from being wiped out after they already had suffered so much for a long time. It wasn't to aggressively convert nice and peaceful people who were just living their life, it was to protect. So I don't think it makes a right example of an "aggressive response to different beliefs". Or technically it does if you understand that the aggression was from the Muslims' side for this one. I just felt the need to say it because this is very often misunderstood.
@@offTheLeftEye Thank you for your reply! Indeed many conflicts arise from every sides being at fault but sometimes there is one perpetrator and one victim (like if a kid is murdered I doubt we could say the kid was also at fault for being murdered! The murderer is the only culprit). But that in itself may then start a violent cycle where everyone on all sides ends up resorting to aggression because they feel that's their only choice. Which in my opinion is what happened with the Crusades, initially at least. But well, I wasn't there so I can only speak from my own understanding of history! Anyway thank you again for everything you do with this channel, I discovered it a while ago but am just recently starting to actually get into it.
Great questions, Jim! I think it makes sense to pity evil spirits. If we can tap into the divine love within and around us, we feel what it's like to be loved, happy, accepted, and cared for. The joy of sharing! Evil spirits don't feel that - they actively shun it. What's not to pity? Their choice can only lead to their misery, and the desire to bring others down with them. It's a total bummer. Swedenborg does say hell is eternal, (or, one might say, CAN BE - so long as people continue to choose it). Whether people STAY for eternity, I don't know. Swedenborg never gives any specific account, that I have found, of a spirit leaving hell. However, he does say many things that lead me to believe that any spirit who decides he or she would rather be good and live in harmony with God could have that option. Overall, what Swedenborg learned about God, is that God's Divine Providence is always working to lead us closer to the Divine. ALWAYS. God's love and mercy are infinite and unconditional, and so if we want a relationship with God, at any time, we can have it. Swedenborg also talks about how punishment is only used as a last resort in hell for spirits who cannot learn to change their behavior through any other means. To me, this indicates that the goal of punishments is reformation, to help spirits learn that they can change and become better and thus happier. So personally, I do think that people who want to leave hell can do so, but would need to do a great deal of work to learn how to love God and be of service to others, and this would be difficult for them. But I do not have an explicit example of this in Swedenborg's writings. As for making evil spirits' bad behavior go dormant, God does have the power to change us, but because of His infinite love, He doesn't. He lets us choose what we love and what we want to do. If we lost this freedom to choose our paths, we wouldn't be ourselves at all, but would be more like Robot Angels. Short clips: [this one talks about the purpose of punishment, I think] Can Evil Spirits Be Reborn to have a Second Chance on Earth? ua-cam.com/video/LwBP1XpIdPU/v-deo.html and Is There Suffering in Hell? ua-cam.com/video/xW-7kF3r55w/v-deo.html Are There Different Levels of Hell? ua-cam.com/video/sSOOUPPGXJs/v-deo.html Full episodes: [about how the Lord always leads us to Divinity] Divine Providence ua-cam.com/video/wFuGb3G2ZVw/v-deo.html [why we have to choose between good and evil, and why it's better to not be robots] Why Bad Things Happen ua-cam.com/video/_F3Gokp44Qo/v-deo.html I hope that helps, Jim!
@@offTheLeftEye As always your answers are spot on, exactly what I need to enhance my spiritual growth. I'm always delighted with the depth and certainty, and the clarity of OTLE's writing. You have all built a great team, and I'm always grateful that you all do what you do. Thank you.
@@jimosage6499 Thank you so much for your kind words! So glad I could help! And I love the questions, because it gives me an opportunity to learn more spiritually too when I research them! (= God bless!
On the topic of narcissism, I am left puzzled to believe that one would be incapable of ration? I have been subjected to narcissistic abuse since birth by an older sibling who was not abused by our mom but abusive to both my mom & I? I believe some are actually born this way, thus the term "bad seed"? By the time I was 7 yrs old, I had suffered 2 head injuries both required a trip to E.R. and stitches from this outrageously jealous sibling. Who was very capable of being rational on the outside to others. But, was only that of a narcissist at home to my mother and I? From 52 years of dealing with this horrible personality disorder in my family. I cannot describe it any other than that of pure evil. It takes great pride in its ability to deceive, cheat, steal, and create chaos & confusion amongst others. But worse it sadistically enjoys the suffering it inflicts on the targeted one/ones. It is not human by a human shell a vehicle operating under the influence of evil. They are able to ration. They do in a manipulative way. By, no means do I intend to offend, I am only trying to understand? Namaste.
Hello, snoopy. I'm so very sorry that you have suffered this way at the hands of your sibling. When we use the word "rationalilty" in this context, that does not mean cleverness. Someone can be very clever and manipulative and yet be insane. So, by rationality, we mean an ability to realize the impact of what you are doing. Ethical empathy. And we are not saying every person with narcissistic tendencies doesn't know what they are doing. Some most certainly do, and therefore are totally responsible for their actions. But for others, it is a case of mental illness in which they don't have the ability to feel empathy for what others are going through. Does that make it more clear what we are sharing in this video?
The day before my boyfriend died, it was a just a normal but out of the extraordinary happy day for him, he had his own little feast going on, he told me how he felt etc, I always think, should’ve not let him eMate so much? Should be not let him open that Champaign bottle? Could’ve I took him to the doctor early in the day, when he mentioned that he was feeling ok, not great, should’ve I prayed more with him?could’ve do a better job doing coed to him? What you are saying is that no matter how I would’ve done things differently, he was predestined to died that day and no a minute extra? When he finally had a person that he loved and wanted to live a life with? Why God couldn’t have him extra time to finally live a happy life after waiting so long to find a partner to share his dreams with? And still having such a young kid that he adored?
It's very normal to be flooded with guilt messages after someone you loved dies. It's very normal to agonize over things you feel that you "should have" done. But those messages are false. You could not have known what was coming. You did not do anything wrong. I know it is very hard, but you need to find a way to counteract those messages that come into your mind. For me (Karin) after my daughter died, it helped me to write down the guilt messages that would come into my mind, and then next to each message write a compassionate response, something I believed that God or my daughter would be saying to comfort me. Do you think you could try that? It is not that your boyfriend was predestined to die by God. But it was foreseen by God and provided for. The timing when someone dies is not due to any one factor, but many factors. God foresees it and takes care of that person, helping him to transition. I know that it seems so unfair to have him die right when he was ready to start a life with you. I know other couples that this has happened to. It is never God's will that people be separated early. That is just a condition of this imperfect world. But God is working right now to keep you and your boyfriend connected in love. From this earthly side, it seems that you and your boyfriend have lost an opportunity. But in the end, this temporary separation will be only a tiny speck compared with the eternity you will be able to spend together. All the dreams that you had together will be fulfilled. And that will apply to his relationship with his child, also. Again, my heart aches for you, because knowing all this does not take away the pain and the grief. It is just going to hurt very much for a while. All I can promise is that eventually, the pain will ease. For now, just pay attention to what you need each day to get through. Seek support from others when you need it!
Hello there Curtis, Jonathan, Chelsea, Karin and all the OTLE team! I'm trying to figure out the afterlife. Everyone is welcome in heaven, but according to the kind of life they lived on Earth, some will be very proeminent individuals, others will be proeminent, others will be ordinary citizens, and others will be in need of some serious character reformation. Hence, people full of self importance may not accept discipline, or a role in what they see to be as "second class citizens" in heaven. Hence, they will oppose God and go to hell (by their own choice). Earthbound spirits would be spirits that reject heaven and wish so bad to return to the Earth. Some of them may be trying to reincarnate (a impossibility, according to Swedenborg). They count as the "opposing God" side (hellish spirits). They may choose at anytime to accept heaven and then move on (we hear stories about earthbound spirits who at some point decide to join the mainstream spiritual world). I had this all figured out myself based on things I hear from you and also other sources I research. What do you think about it? Am I spacing out? Thank you! Josué.
Great inquiry, Josue. One of the ways Swedenborg explains it is the human body. Heaven is like that. Some organs are what we might call vital, like the brain and heart and lungs, and others are less so, in that a person can survive without both kidneys. And yet each contributes value to the whole body. The heart does not look down on the spleen and say "I am more important". They work for the same causes. In trying to understand the workings of heaven an analogy like this can help me. It also describes those spirits that do not end up staying in heaven. Here is a video that includes a portion (minute 14) about heaven. ua-cam.com/video/ZrH-wsVfkSA/v-deo.html Bless you on this treasure hunt? It is worth learning more.
I watch this channel all the time and usually agree and love the things said. I must respectfully disagree about the existence of the devil. This is the 2nd video that has said he does not exist. I truly don't understand how you can say that when the Bible clearly speaks of his existence. For example, Matthew 4:1-11. 4:1 " Then Jesus was led into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." 4:5 "Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple."4:8 "Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor" 4:9 " All this I will give to you, he said, if you will bow down and worship me" 4:10 " Jesus said to him, away from me Satan! For it is written: worship the Lord your God, and serve him only" 4:11 "Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him." How can you agree with Swedenborgs stance against what the Bible states? I do agree with basically all I have learned from Swedenborgs experiences, but he wasn't the "Messiah" and was human like everyone else. I watch your channel every day and think you guys do an amazing job, although I am a bit disappointed in teaching others that the devil isn't real. He definitely is.
Hi, Renee! I'm so glad to know that you are out there in our audience. I'm glad that you enjoy the shows, and I'm glad that you also feel free to respectfully disagree. Swedenborg learned that when the Bible speaks of "the Devil" it is talking about the collective efforts of all the evil spirits in hell. We made a show about that called "Is the Devil Real?" ua-cam.com/video/ljR4_gs0Tek/v-deo.html So, all of hell was working to attack Jesus, to tempt him, to sabotage him. They work together as gangs, but sometimes present themselves as if they were one being: "Jesus asked him, saying, 'What is your name?' And he said, 'Legion,' because many demons had entered him. -Luke 8:30 "Then He asked him, 'What is your name?' And he answered, saying, 'My name is Legion; for we are many.' . . . . Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid." -Mark 5:9,15 You might also be interested in "The Spiritual Battles of Jesus Christ" ua-cam.com/video/zVVOypnm9bU/v-deo.html
Regarding the input of Rev. Wilma Wake on whether those with NPD (and the like) will be 'excused' for their behavior, I disagree with her appeal to the DSM-defined category of 'mental illness' and implied lack of rationality. The DSM observes outward behaviors and expressed thoughts/emotions, and then categorizes them. The DSM does *not* hold the answers as to 'why' people behave as they do, and the spiritual world has to do with the 'why' (motivations.) According to the DSM, ANY thoughts or behaviors which do not conform to a societal standard, or 'norm,' are able to be considered a mental illness. These categories are created by humans, and change according to culture (for evidence of this, simply research the fact that homosexuality was once considered to be mental illness, and is no longer.) To call maladjusted behaviors anything other than 'mental illness' would be to discredit the ability of the psych field to 'fix' the problems, which is a motivator for them to keep defining destructive behavior as such. People with sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies tend to have sadistic fun with therapists who approach the issue from a "poor thing, doesn't know what he is doing," perspective. These types enjoy getting one over on 'mental health professionals,' and gain a sense of power from it.
I do appreciate the point you're making, Shanna. I suppose at the end of the day, only the Lord truly knows whether or not our freedom is in tact enough to be held accountable for our motivations and choices. But there is a certain level of disability where the mental faculties are not able to experience the level of freedom that would allow for us to develop our spiritual character.
Jesus talks about "hating your mother and brother" and renouncing the world. But he clearly wasn't an ascetic. His work was rooted in the earth, markets, relationships, every day life. Do you have any videos or answers to this type of question? Am I "allowed" to enjoy sex, wine, laugh at a joke, etc ? What does it mean to be in the world but not of it?
It all has to do with priorities, and what kind of inner spirit is contained in outer activities. If spiritual and heavenly goals are your priority, then any earthly activities and enjoyments will be subservient to those higher priorities. So, for instance, you won't let the enjoyment of jokes overrule kindness to others, and you'll avoid indulging in jokes that hurt others. Or, you won't let enjoyment of sex overrule genuine love and kindness to others. And usefulness is also a factor. You won't let enjoyment of foods or drinks overrule attention to what might be damaging your body. Jokes and sex and the enjoyment food and drink in ways that enhance friendship, kindness, love and physical and spiritual health are very good parts of life! God created the physical world to be enjoyed. We did a show about prioritizing four basic categories of love or enjoyment, if you are interested: ua-cam.com/video/pPxZjSWzmPw/v-deo.html
To read and understand the writings of Swedenborg or to listen to your videos seems to require an individual to have a certain sense of the spiritual and be able to grasp what could be called highly esoteric thought and to be open-minded to new concepts. You could even say it requires a certain level of intelligence. Where does this leave people steeped in cultural ignorance or people who mindlessly insist on following the religion of their fathers? Where does it leave those who can be clinically certified as having low I.Q.s, or anyone who can never be expected to progress beyond anything but a hand-to-mouth existence? I'm sure we've all met them. Are they left out of the promise?
There are different forms of intelligence. Many people with high I.Q.s seem to have no intelligence concerning spiritual matters. Some people who have low I.Q.s may be spiritual giants. I believe that most people can increase their I.Q.s by just using their brains to expand their thinking. Interacting mentally with smart people will make you smarter. The opposite is probably true also. The challenge is to create an environment where people feel free to express what they're thinking without fear of criticism. This is a real challenge in a society where the rich and gifted do not live near the ordinary people. There's no way to interact. It's a form of segregation. In some states the schools are supported only by local property taxes, so the rich neighborhoods have a lot more money to spend on schools that the poor neighborhoods.
Manfred Knight. Swedenborg taught that any one who in faith applies the goodness of God into their actual life will end up in heaven. It does not depend on understanding all the intricacies that Swedenborg goes into. He speaks quite admiringly of the simple , rural folk with a common sense faith in God.
I think level of IQ is irrelevant, and certainly up to whose standard of measurement one is going on. Helen Keller wasn't able to read or write, and these days she most certainly would have been classified as a mute, or viewed as having lower intelligence simply due to her disabilities. God worked through her, for example, without so much as a word. This evidence leads me to believe that just like the heart condition, only God knows how to work through each individual according to Divine Planning. Some doctors are exceptionally gifted in obtaining knowledge, yet lack bedside manner or empathy. Is that intelligence in the eyes of people, or the eyes of God? I would guess it's not my place to put weight on any societal standard...I too am frustrated by the indoctrination of religion unto people, suffocating their own free will & mindset, but I do know that the promise is for all to be redeemed by Truth, and I've seen people simply plucked out of an organization or religion because of experience, not necessarily intelligence. I pray for everyone who is in bondage by religion that their eyes be opened to the beauty of God. I want to take control and put on Swedenborg videos in every restroom, restaurant, theater...but I remember that God is in every single one of us, and I have to let God worry about God for the moment. Like this video really brought home the potential in each and every one of us, because we're all rooted in God, the Lord is sharing information and providing for us--all of us--everyday. These are all things I tell myself and have come to know when dealing with the opposite structures of our daily--culture, society, measurements, religion. Swedenborg opened up, what I believe, what Jesus was trying to say---before people got a hold of it and molded it to an agenda. Isn't Swedenborg text freedom? I pray for everyone to experience this freedom. Religion and cultural concepts really damage us and prevent us from being the greatest version of ourselves we can be.
I agree with all these good responses. Swedenborg reported that often people who live a very simple life of goodness get into heaven more easily than the highly intellectual! One doesn't have to know how muscles work in order to use their muscles to do things. Likewise, a person doesn't have to know all the intricacies of spiritual systems in order to operate in them. Swedenborg's books provide deeper understanding for those who want it, but all a person has to do to get to heaven is to apply the principles of "love God, love the neighbor" to life in any way that they understand it.
@thenowchurch - I suppose this is really what I wanted to establish, which I surmise to mean that, according to Swedenborg, we are saved and get to heaven - and once there, reap increase - by the goodness of God, hence the grace of God, and not through negotiating an ever-increasing labyrinth of complex understanding of the Truth. It would then naturally follow that any truth that we do acquire is the result of that goodness. In other words, it is God's goodness that leads us to the Truth and not the other way around, meaning it is not the Truth that leads us to God's goodness. Would this be a correct interpretation?
What about people that believe in Scientology.Those people are kind and friendly and good people.My question is do those people go to hell because they don’t follow/believe in Jesus Christ.
Good people do not go to hell, Jennifer. People who love God, are concerned for the welfare of others, find useful ways to serve the world they live in, ARE followers of Jesus Christ, whether they put it like that or not. They are living the kind of life Jesus modeled and spoke about. They are doing the will of God. "Not every one who says to me "Lord! Lord!" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but those who do the will of my Father." It is how we live and what we love that aligns us with heaven (or not), not just what we say we believe..... How does that sit for you?
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No! narcissistic ppl and other personality disorders are responsible for their actions. They defend their hateful misery making intentional behavior. I have a narcissistic mother who destroyed my brother and makes me her next mission. The way she has effected my life is devastating. She raised my brother to kill himself, which he did. Her personality disorder is not a free pass. Nobody’s mental illness or personality disorder is a free pass. We have free will. That is our ultimate gift. I’m not perfect. But I know enough to walk away. Not chase someone down to inflict misery on them for our own joy. It’s an emotional deformity, but it’s still evil. And personality disorders and mental illness are not the same thing. Personality disorders have less than 2% of a chance of improving. They never take responsibility fo their actions. Mental illness is a misfiring of chemicals in our brain. I was not really impressed with these answers. 🧐 Food for thought tho. I just love you guys! But this one twisted my head a little. We all return to love. Home. But do we take all of us, or just the love of us?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lea! Swedenborg wrote that freedom and a rational mind allow us to form our spiritual character. When one of those factors is unstable or in question, we are not operating in complete freedom. Here's a passage: "States of mental illness: No one is reformed in a state of mental illness because mental illness takes away rationality and so the freedom of acting in accordance with reason. For the mind is ill and unsound, and it is a sound mind that is rational, not an ill one. Such illnesses are ones of melancholy, of spurious and false conscience, of various types of delusion, of grief of heart arising from misfortunes, of distress and mental anguish owing to some physical disorder�-�conditions which are sometimes regarded as temptations, but are not. For genuine temptations have spiritual matters as their subjects, and in those the mind is wise. But these illnesses have natural matters as their subjects, and in them the mind is irrational." Now, there are indeed varying degrees of mental illness, and not all mental disorders violate one's ability to think and operate of their own accord. The Lord alone knows who is free, and who is truly not. And no one can cheat the divine design-- each will be sorted according to the quality of their inner character in the next life. For those who were severely impaired of rationality, they will have the chance to develop then-- the Lord's infinite mercy grants that. Regarding your final inquiry, Swedenborg wrote that we are what we love. Here's a passage that clarifies this: "Love in general. (a) Our love is our very life itself. The nature of our love determines the nature of our life and in fact our entire nature as a human being. Our dominant or leading love, however, is the love that constitutes us. Our dominant or leading love has many other loves; they are derived from it in a hierarchy beneath it. No matter how these other loves may look or seem, each one of them is part of our leading love. With it they make one government, so to speak. Our dominant love is like the monarch and leader of the rest: it guides our other loves and uses them as intermediate purposes through which it focuses on and aims for its goal. Both directly and indirectly, this goal is the primary and ultimate objective for them all. [2] (b) The focus of our dominant love is what we love above all else. What we love above all else is constantly present in our thinking, because it is in our will and ultimately constitutes our life. For example, if we love wealth above everything else, whether that means money or property, we are constantly contemplating how to get more. When we do get more we are profoundly overjoyed. When we lose wealth we are profoundly grief-stricken. Our heart is in it. If we love ourselves above all else, we keep ourselves in mind at all times. We think about ourselves, talk about ourselves, and act for our own benefit, because our life is a life of self. [3] (c) Our purpose is what we love above all else. We focus on it in each and every thing we do. It exists in our will like a hidden current in a river that moves and carries things along, even when we are doing something else, because it is what motivates us. It is the factor that people look for and identify in others; then they use it either to influence the others or to cooperate with them. [4] (d) Our nature is completely shaped by the dominant force in our lives. That force is what differentiates us from other people. If we are good, our heaven is created to accord with it. If we are evil, our hell is created to accord with it. It is our will, our self, and our nature. It is the underlying reality of our life. It cannot be changed after we die, because it is our true self. [5] (e) For each of us, all our pleasure, joy, and happiness comes from our dominant love and depends on it. This is because whatever we love we say is enjoyable, since we feel it that way. What we think about but we do not love we are also capable of calling enjoyable, but it is not the central enjoyment of our life. What our love enjoys we experience as good, and what our love does not enjoy we experience as evil. [6] (f) There are two types of love that act as a source for all forms of goodness and truth. There are two types of love that act as a source for all forms of evil and falsity. The two loves that originate all forms of goodness and truth are love for the Lord and love for our neighbor. The two loves that originate all forms of evil and falsity are love for ourselves and love for the world. When the latter two loves are dominant, they are completely opposite to the former two loves. [7] (g) Love for the Lord and love for our neighbor are the two loves that constitute heaven in us, as I said. They are the dominant types of love in heaven. Since they constitute heaven in us, they also constitute the church in us. The two loves that originate all forms of evil and falsity, which as I said are love for ourselves and love for the world, constitute hell in us, since they are the dominant types of love in hell. Therefore they also destroy the church in us. [8] (h) The two types of love that originate all forms of goodness and truth, which are the types of love in heaven, open and form our inner spiritual self, because that is where these loves reside. The two types of love that originate all forms of evil and falsity, which as I have said are the types of love in hell, close and destroy our inner spiritual self when they are dominant. They make us earthly and sense-oriented, depending on how extensively and powerfully dominant they are."
Dont really agree with the narcissistic analysis here. Because the person I dealt with knew exactly what she was and is doing. I believe it is dark and of evil spirit manipulation. That's not excusable. But that's just my opinion. Unless you have suffered from the hell that a narcissistic/sociopathic person can cause in your life you wouldnt understand.
Narcissists are not sane are are therefore not responsible for anything? That is precisely what narcissists love to hear! That's it! I'm unsubscribing from this channel. I've had enough, I've reached my limit. I will read Swedenborg's works by myself but your channel has lost all my esteem and lost all its appeal to me. Seriously!? Narcissists will not be held accountable by God? You guys managed to misunderstand Swedenborg in the worst way possible. Narcissists are nothing if not "The Love of Self" above all other loves. They are the embodiment of "hate thy neighbour". They are what "devil" means as in "the infernal love of self and hatred of God as well as their neighbour". By "neighbour", I meant the good in others and the good of the Lord or the good of love and the good of truth, narcissists hate all those things. Narcissists are self-exaltation, they are the worship of their proprium. They worship only one god - themselves. Someone needed to say this. I hate to be the one to stick my neck out, but I guess today that person making this unhappy speech this time will have to be me, seeing that no one else did the necessary deed, I have to step up. If narcissists are not the embodiment of the devil, and they get go to to the first heaven, then hell will be empty, then, just like the Hindu or Buddhist mythologies, all you get is reincarnation or astral heaven with everybody not being judged and it's all just kumbaya after death. We are not evolving through many reincarnations. This life determines our Will through our Loves. What you love in this life will determine whether you go to Heaven or Hell. Narcissists are not evolving, they are busily choosing to love what God hates, as in a lying tongue, a heart that devises wicked plans, etc. There is no insanity plea, narcissists are deliberately making the choice of what to love in this life, but narcissists love anyone who tells them that they are the perfect, wonderful, faultless, adorable creatures their proprium tells them they are, and here you are doing precisely that, narcissists love your channel, you are pandering to them. How can you not see that? When we do not rebuke evil, we invite evil in. What you accept or willingly overlook, you accept into your Will. The only way to deal with evil is to reject or resist it. If you do not understand a topic, say "I do not know the answer", to wing it and come up with a fabricated or false answer harms your discernment, and injects falsity into the discernment of others watching this video. Even worse if that answer happens to harm good. This channel was already sounding more and more unChristian by the video, now it's even sounding unNew Church. Seriously, I'm out of here. I rebuke you.
Johnny, you are missing the big "IF". It never makes sense to look at all outward behavior as coming from the exact same internal condition. IF narcissistic behavior is due to genuine mental illness, in which the person does not have access to rational thought, then they will have a chance after death to review their earthly life through rational eyes, and evaluate it. In those cases, there is a likely chance that the person will see and feel the effects of their behavior, feel some agonizing remorse, and reject it. If this is the case, they will be able to learn and pursue a better way of life. But IF the narcissistic behavior is not due to genuine mental illness, and instead is due to the freely-chosen pursuit of a self-centered life, then the person is not at all "off the hook." They will suffer the consequences of their behavior, and end up in hell. We totally agree with you that we have to be willing to reject evil, or else the evil becomes a part of our will. But no one is able to freely accept or reject anything unless they have access to their rational faculty. You don't need to worry about anyone just making excuses and getting away with something. Everyone's capabilities and inner motivations can be clearly seen in the afterlife.
But your stance works exactly like the "insanity plea abuse". "Your honour, if my client is insane, then he cannot be responsible for the crimes he is accused of". Every single lawyer and crook of murders and violent crimes seriously considers submitting this plea. Please start to genuinely consider the strong tendency of the evil to invent justifications for themselves and to convince everyone else that they did what they did for the best of intentions, or that they don't remember anything, etc. And your stance is also going along with the moral relativity, don't discern crowd, a result of post modern philosophy that probably made Swedenborg disagree with philosophers. If where you sit is always on the fence, because you always refuse to draw the line somewhere, and so you always draw the line along moral relativity and "don't discern" by default, you will end up winking at evil every time because you will excuse evil behaviour every time, arguing that, "it is not what it looks like", which is exactly how the evil defend themselves with. While it is fair enough not to jump to conclusions and to attribute wrong things to people's intentions, refusing to discern when there is a strong case for using your discernment is also a form of "see no evil", which is better described as "winking at evil". To not discern when discerning is the correct move means you default to the wrong move while claiming plausible deniability. I'm not worried about what happens to narcissists in the afterlife and whether the Sphere of Truth will pick up on them, I just disagree very strongly with this channel's stance on narcissism and it's cavalier interpretations on actual human evils. Just think about it, if someone were to be steeped in self-love, how would they actually appear like? How would their actions look like? How else would it look like? If narcissists were "rationality challenged" and are therefore not the infernal self lovers that they are, then who else would fit into that category? Where then, would you find those steeped in love of self? In more normal seeming people who occasionally choose to pursue love of self? Will you ever manage to find a person who goes "I hereby rationally choose love of self over use and will decide to throw you under the bus because I have considered all the alternative courses of action and done the calculus, and love of self over love for you is what I rationally choose"? No, that's not how evil sounds like, instead it sounds like this, "I didn't do it", or "I didn't mean it", evil constantly makes excuses for itself, and the one thing left to complete the circle is someone else agreeing, saying "yeah you probably didn't do it or mean it". And that's the role you have chosen for yourself. We are both stuck. I am stuck on calling a spade a spade. And you are stuck telling me, "but what if it's not a spade". I've had this argument before, and every time I had it, it's with people who refuse to exercise discernment, who only would make more excuses for evil. Of course, I could actually be stuck calling a carrot a spade, that is a possibility that cannot be discounted. But I've spent some time learning to spot denialism when I see it, especially denialism of either the existence of evil, or the presence of evil in a given person. It does no good to deny discerning evil when you encounter it. The whole point of my comments is to point out the hole in your discernment for whatever good that might accomplish. Good luck.
You wrote: "I'm not worried about what happens to narcissists in the afterlife and whether the Sphere of Truth will pick up on them, I just disagree very strongly with this channel's stance on narcissism and it's cavalier interpretations on actual human evils." I'm completely puzzled by this statement and your reaction, because the question in the show was specifically about the afterlife: "Are sociopath and narcissitic people excused for their behavior on earth in heaven, being that this could be mental illness and beyond their control?" So, the answer is specifically about the person's state in the afterlife, not about how a person should handle someone on earth who displays narcissistic tendencies. Also, the question was specifically wondering about conditions that may be "beyond their control," thus a genuine mental illness in which there is a problem with the brain. Mental illnesses can cut a person off from the ability to empathize with others. Concerning how to handle people behaving badly on earth, our channel communicates that it is appropriate, wise and loving to confront and stop bad behavior in whatever way is appropriate and possible, legally and morally. Almost every show we have made points out that self-centeredness is the road to hell, because it is the state of hell, and that excuses will do a person no good. Everyone who is able to recognize their self-centeredness is completely responsible to shun that and change. If they don't, they will suffer the consequences of having made those attitudes and practices a part of their spirits. We are not making excuses for evil. I hope you and everyone will do whatever is possible to stop harmful, selfish behavior. What we are saying is that no matter what action we need to take in a practical, earthly sense, we must also recognize that we can't fully know a person's ability to really realize what they are doing. Only God knows that for sure. You can stop a person's bad actions or cut ties with them without assuming they're going to hell. If Jesus could pray for those who had just betrayed, tortured, and crucified him, we can at least strive to hope for every person to find ways to wake up and improve, in this world or the next, and to practice forgiveness even while taking necessary actions to confront them. ua-cam.com/video/2CJ_W9lE0co/v-deo.html "Then Jesus said, 'Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.'”-Luke 23:34
I guess you have a good point. Our disagreements are ultimately subtle and based on root assumptions. Mine is that when something looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. And so for me, narcissism is basically what infernal self-love looks like. You prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. With lots of IFs and you also bought into the questioner's root proposition that they are mentally ill and that this is beyond their control. I dispute that root assumption. My root assumption is that they are not mentally ill, neither is this beyond their control. Instead, this is exactly how infernal self-love looks like if you ever managed to find a human who espouses that. But you would disagree with me on that. And so the next stage of the disagreement comes down to what we each understand NPD as. You have yours, I have mine. And from my perspective, your entire paradigm, as well as the questioner's paradigm are wrong. People who have seen narcissistic abuse first hand know this. People who don't understand NPD cannot know this. My main quibble is that you handled that question very poorly when seen from the perspective of someone who actually understands narcissistic abuse. NPD is not a mental illness. They are not mentally ill. They are evil. There, I've finally said it. And I know you will think that nobody has the spiritual right to call anyone evil, as well as mentioning the first stone. Nevertheless, someone has to come out to say this, stripped of the deception of political correctness. There are certain cases and situations where you don't have to know everything (the heart) to declare that someone is evil, anyone who continues sitting on the fence in those situations are like a judge who gives a lenient sentence to heinous crimes. My quibble is not on what happens to NPDs in the afterlife. Whatever will be will be. It is not up to me. My quibble is on how excessively much benefit of the doubt your channel gives them. And how little you understand of them. But I cannot say this without sounding arrogant or conceited myself. Nevertheless, someone has to come out to rebuke apologists for NPDs, as well as the naive ones who think nobody can possibly be that bad. There are just certain things in life that no one should give benefit of the doubt to, because those who have front row seats know the severity of their culpability, but those who have just entered the room instead see only the plausible deniability. And they think the 5 seconds that they saw allows them to dispute someone who was in that room the whole day. I think you have overreached your understanding when it comes to narcissism and sociopathy. You handled the question very poorly, immediately buying into the bait the questioner presented regarding their inculpability. To someone who actually knows that stuff and reads Swedenborg, it's a very cringy experience. My rebuke isn't about NPD and the afterlife, it's about what was said regarding that topic in this video. And I'll also point out that I'm probably not alone. Anyone else who understands narcissistic abuse, whether they read Swedenborg or not will likely cringe at what you said on that video. Please give yourself the option of replying "we don't know the answer to that question", for a very risky topic like this, overreaching creates enormous gaffes. Thank you for replying so many times. And thank you for your patience. Please don't overreach like that. Given what I now know about what you knew about NPD, you should have never taken that question. Sure, forgiveness can be appropriate. But did you also know that taking too soft an approach to injustice creates more injustice by adding more suffering to the victims? We should also practice charitability primarily towards victims by meting out proportional justice towards the perpetrators. Compassion or benefit of the doubt towards perpetrators hurts victims even more. The chief focus of our charity should be towards victims and the innocent, not towards the perpetrators. Being correctly judicious is also an aspect of charitability. Being insensitive to the victims by being overly charitable to abusers is uncharitable to victims, it heaps more distress on them. Someone needs to point this out. I'm not asking you to send NPDs to jail. I'm just asking you to consider how much your fence sitting answer might possibly hurt the victims of narcissistic abuse having to listen to you misinterpret Swedenborg and infernal self-love like that. I originally debated with myself whether I should bother to rebuke your channel regarding that terrible piece on narcissism. I thought I might just forget about it. But then I decided that it would be uncharitable to any future victims of narcissistic abuse who watched this video without having at least one commenter arguing against and rebuking the terrible injudicious things that were said in it. I hope that my hard to swallow words may provide some solace to anyone else who saw that piece on narcissism and felt similarly to myself in reaction to it.
All right, thank you for sharing your perspective here, Johnny. I know it is coming from a place of wanting to help people. I hope you can also have room to believe that we are also trying to help people, and perhaps we are just playing a different role than you are, but both roles are needed. One concept that we feel is important and actually very healing for all involved is that things can look the same in external form and yet be coming from very different internal circumstances. We have seen many cases in which knowing that can help people deal with the outer circumstances more effectively, with less anger and in internal torture. We believe these words of Jesus are not about refraining from taking necessary action to stop bad behavior, but about an internal state of being while doing so: "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you..." -Matthew 5:44 For what it's worth, though others feel like you did about this response to a question about the fate of a narcissist in the afterlife, still others have felt greatly comforted by it, because they have a family member that they really care about who has fallen into this sort of behavior and, while they know they have to either confront, stop or distance themselves from that behavior, they have love for the person and want to have hope that the person's spiritual life could possibly be salvaged through God's mercy. Something in them knows that this behavior is not really the deeper core of who the person is, and that severe bodily and earthly factors are at play. It's amazing what whacked out brain chemicals can do. Near the end of his life, a relative of mine who had been a mild and gentle person all his life got a flood of excess calcium from his bones flowing into his bloodstream and he suddenly became very rude and nasty until doctors found a way to get the proper chemical balance back again. Again, it's never about excusing the behavior. Quite the opposite. Concerning this statement: "Sure, forgiveness can be appropriate. But did you also know that taking too soft an approach to injustice creates more injustice by adding more suffering to the victims?" Yes, we know that full well. There must always be some sort of action that fits the crime. That's why I was steering you toward the episode about forgiveness, because we address that in that show. But also, forgiveness is much more about freeing the victims from continuing inner torture than anything to do with the perpetrator. In our show "How to Love" we talk about how "love" can be stopping someone from doing something that is harmful, which is love toward the victims and the perpetrator at the same time. Also, any time someone asks a question like "what do I do about someone who is hurting other people?" we have responded by emphasizing that it is never the right thing to just excuse and allow harmful behavior which is evil and destructive. I agree with you that narcissistic behavior is what infernal love looks like (see our show "The Mysteries of the Ten Commandments Explained: False Gods" to see that self-absorption is breaking the first commandment.) So, we can agree to disagree on specific elements and approaches to this topic, but as I said, I hope you can perhaps just see it as each being called to address a different aspect of a complicated topic. Again, thank you for your communication, and I'm wishing you well in all your efforts.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the most enlightening channel ever! Heavenly Thanks!
You're welcome! :) We're so glad you find it helpful!
What topics speak to you, JoeyNess?
Hi Curtis and all. I went to a NDE support group this weekend. I mentioned Swedenborge I was thrilled to see that people knew of him and I directed them to this channel because it has helped me so much. So with hopes I sent more people to subscribe. :D
Wow, that is so cool! I really am grateful for your willingness to do that! Wishing you well, dear friend :)
Yes, i too have been sending/SHARING these video's with friends & family.
I've ALWAYS KNOWN God/Jehovah, etc, was a LOVING God, can ANYONE image throwing your CHILD or ANYONE in the pits of hell.... SO why WOULD GOD do that!? in my gut I knew God WOULD NEVER do such a thing,. As I was raised a Catholic it NEVER made sense to me, NO organized religion made or DOES make SENSE to me as every1 translates the Bible or their (collective) ideas & ideals should be OR THEIR perception of WHAT Faith, God, heaven, hell, Angels etc SHOULD be or IS . FROM the very FIRST (1st) time I could really understand or sit still to LISTEN to a service, I had SO MANY questions, then at Sunday school I had more questions & WANTED real ANSWERS!!! SOME of the teachers explaintions made sense, approx 98% or less, hence I was constantly thrown out of the classroom, & branded a menace/disruptive to the other Kids & the classroom & UNWILLING to learn, ALL bcuz I had qus. 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🙄😡
Larni Late reply, but I am pretty much the same as you! Grew up catholic but now seeing the real truth 🙏
What's an NED group?
Dr. Soni Werner, thank you for your sincerity and insight …
Many years ago I read a very short description by Bertrand Russell, an English philosopher, about another philosopher’s disposition when he found himself in a situation of debate. That philosopher’s name is Baruch Spinoza, and Russell said of him: “In controversy he was courteous and reasonable, never denouncing, but doing his utmost to persuade.”
There’s such a beautiful maturity in that kind of thinking and disposition that I’ve never forgotten those few words, and have endeavored ever since to be that kind of person. After having been introduced to Swedenborg and his writings (which elaborate extensively on angelic dispositions of this sort), this want within me for a more polite and congenial dialogue with others in opposition to my view has internalized within me more and more.
By this- and I only have the Lord to thank- I have won over friendships that would have otherwise ended in heated and barbaric debates between strangers. I’m so grateful …
John, what a profound discovery! My heart is stirred by Russell's words as it described Spinoza's disposition during times of controversy. I can see how one could apply that in engagements with others and have blessed results! Thanks for sharing such a valuable testimonial with us, my friend.
Beautifully put and I agree with you in every respect. I love Dr. Soni, too. Lovely comment.
Your comments brought a welling up inside of me and I burst out in tears. Really nice to have come across right now. Thank you! 🥲🙏✌️
Very happy to see Sage joining this great segment :). I've been enjoying and learning a lot at the Swedenborg chapel in Massachusetts and it brings me great joy to see everyone connecting . Always benefit greatly from these videos 🙏
In Cambridge I live quite a distance out in the middle of the state.
I'm so glad to hear about your connection to the Swedenborg chapel! It sounds like you're really soaking these teachings up!
I was really happy to see the issue of narcissism addressed. There is so much on social media these days about recognizing narcissistic behavior and how terrible and toxic the narcissist is. While it is true that we need to protect ourselves from being abused or manipulated, it is also very important to realize that the narcissist is a damaged person who got the way they are by unfortunate circumstances in their lives. We can protect ourselves without losing compassion. Swedenborg writes about how the angels always try to understand a person's behavior in the best light possible, which is something we can try to emulate here, as well. In addition, we ALL have narcissistic tendencies, even if not the full personality disorder. I think about how angry I can get if I am criticized or how I go into panic mode if I think people don't like me. These are narcissistic traits, which cause me a great deal of distress, and so I feel sorry for those who are struggling with these things on a greater scale. We don't have to like or tolerate behaviors that are hurtful, but it doesn't mean we have to hate the narcissist who is doing those things. They are operating under a heavy handicap and hopefully we can have a compassionate attitude towards them, reflecting the way the Lord and the angels look at them.
Nadine, thank you for making this really powerful point. It is important, as you noted, to protect ourselves from being harmed or manipulated, but certainly that doesn't eradicate the potential for goodwill. Angelic behavior truly does give us a fantastic blueprint for loving wisely.
Scott Peck, the Catholic psychologist, felt that narcissism was a spiritual disorder. He put it quite succinctly, the "unsubmitted will", even wrote a book about this disorder, called "People of the Lie".
My experience with them is that they are not automatons but are aware very much of what harm they inflict. Quite a few of them will even admit that they "like the way they are". I don't think that narcissism should be lumped together with disorders such as schizophrenia where emotions are not under control. Narcissists are very calculating.
It doesn't always come from abuse either. Much narcissism in our society comes from egotism. Children whose egos are allowed to run wild, in other words, spoiled rotten, frequently turn out to be narcissists.
I don't feel sorry for them at all, except I hate to see people willingly going to hell.
I love your kindly outlook, even though it may be incorrect. A narcissistic personality may be due to genetics. Scientists have found that the brains of narcissists and clinical psychopaths are different from so-called normal people. In all cases, the Amygdala is not working properly. This part of the brain gives us access to kindness, caring, empathy and compassion. In such people, they simply have no access to these spiritual qualities. So you can love them but they are not going to change. Why a spirit would choose to be born this way is beyond my knowledge, unless they VALUE being a hard non-emotional person because they have specific goals and do not want to be bothered with the softer human qualities. I would consider this a wrong path leading downward in evolution.
I am sorry but I have had extensive experience with destructive narcissists. I even believe there is a bad spirit lurking in there. I don't think Scott Peck was incorrect. If their brains are not working properly, that could be the excuse for any evil in the world but it is generally admitted we all have free will according to the degree of intelligence we are born with. The moral code is written in our hearts and minds. Peck says that their will cannot be crossed. Just try saying NO to any of them and see what happens. They are BAD.
I happen to be a psychiatrist as well as a Swedenborgian. In my training and experience I think that people can change, even people with personality disorders. However, regardless of whether it is genetic, traumatic childhood experiences, or just plain choosing self over others, the fact remains that every one is a child that God wanted and created, and we should always hope for the best for all people, including the narcissists. Again, I want to reiterate that if there is someone in a person's life who is abusive and harmful, it is important to protect oneself. But this doesn't give us permission to hate them. If they in fact can not change, then God will take that into account and not hold them responsible. If they are willingly choosing self over everyone else of free will, then there is always the possibility of God changing their hearts. The classic psychiatric textbook explanation of how narcissism is born is that a child is ignored, belittled, unloved, and counted as worthy unless they are doing something extraordinary that the parent values, like showing talent in music, or sports, or academics, etc. The child grows up with the message that they are only loveable if they can be better than other people. Inside, the narcissist is actually someone with a terrible feeling of inferiority and worthlessness, but that intolerable feeling is covered over incredibly thoroughly with a thick wall of superiority and bravado because the person can't bear the feeling of being unloveable. I believe that can change, but whether or not I am correct in that, it rematins that this is a state worthy of compassion and mercy. It may have to be done from afar, for protection's sake, but I really see it as a pitiable condition. And again, we all have these tendencies. We just are hopefully better able to temper them. When I see the tendencies toward self flare up in myself, and see how they are not all that different from a narcissist, I think, "There but for the grace of God go I."
Love the answer about different truths - one truth many paths.
Amen!
thank you for this. funny, this video played randomly after a different video and today i impulsively moved out of my dads house after years of narcissistic abuse that me, being an empath, was staying in because i see the damage causing his behavior and its not really “him”.... but i decided that any empathy and genuine love he has is buried deeper than i thought, if not completely destroyed, and i cant continue to destroy myself trying to “save” my father. it hurts, so so bad. (i have to keep reminding myself that its okay to say im hurting)
emma, my heart goes out to you. What a painful situation, and I'm sure that was a very hard decision, to move out. I think you did the right thing, because it does not help you or your father to stay in a situation in which he keeps hurting you. And even though you did the right thing, yes, it hurts terribly. That's a testament to your love for your dad. I hope you can strengthen yourself in the belief that it is best for both of you. Maybe there will be some helpful thoughts in our show "How To Love," which talks about the fact that love has to be expressed differently in different situations, and sometimes love means you stop allowing someone to hurt you. Wishing you peace and healing. ua-cam.com/video/i1vLrF-BeGY/v-deo.html
Narcissists can destroy the very Light of Divine Truth in us. Locks us into low vibratory frequency even after you leave the house just to go to work. The negativity affects us all day and those around us, where we empaths would be higher vibration otherwise. To remove ourselves from this immediately and over time allows our spirit and body to heal and the knowledge gained from the experience causes us to be more understanding than we would be had we not had a Narc in our lives. It is an inverted way to spiritual growth having had the entire experience, which is hell on earth. May you now experience true healing daily my friend. I am 3 years away from the Narcissist and much healing has taken place. Watch the Utubes and learn everything you can, then move away from the thoughts that continue over time. Do not hang on the ladder of victimhood forever. I still struggle with that bit doing so much better. Not everyone understands your need to heal from this. May an army of Angels come to comfort you.
im a twelve year old empath, very intelligent for my age, this comment made me cry as i realised that i have been feeling the same way about my mum too, although i can’t move out i figured that the most effective thing i can do is to love her with all i have, disregarding her actions towards me, so that she realises that being committed to love is way stronger than hate.
kyxia ali you are a pure hearted soul
@@kairomain you really are a smart kid! And so loving too.
I went through a very abusive childhood, but I was able to figure out what was causing the people around me to act that way. I was about your age, too.
The love we empaths feel for everyone, especially family and friends, helps us to understand how God is helping us through it. You're so amazing to see that hate is not the answer. There are so many that take that road, ya know? The love you feel helps you understand them and that is the first step to healing and protecting yourself from lifelong sadness. I'm so happy to read your comment. You're a good soul. All the best to you: Love and Light. ❤️🥲🙏✌️
Important lessons and guidance...food for our souls. Thank you SF!
How wonderful to hear! I really appreciate your feedback on our content :)
Dr. Warner I appreciate that you used Christianity and the crusades as an example of aggressive religious methods. As a Cristian it is easier to see Muslims in that role. Yet the truth is that Christians are also guilty of aggressively defending their religion. No matter which religion employs violence it's always wrong.
So true, Jay. Lots of "Christian" misdeeds, and lots of other kinds, too. We're all limited humans, no matter how we label ourselves. But here's to those who are devotedly trying to LIVE love of God and love of the neighbor!
While Chelsea was explaining what separates the "three levels" of heaven, I found that I tend to experience all of those states (and worse,) throughout each day. I get excited when I am at the 'motivated by love' state, but the 'just doing it because I know I'm supposed to' state gets me through, at other times.
Those are totally awesome states to experience! And life is a process -- we sometimes experience higher states and sometimes lower ones. Swedenborg uses the times of day as correspondences: morning equates to feeling close to God, and evening feeling distanced from Him. The good news is that dusk brings new opportunities to move back into the light.
I really enjoyed the questions you shared and the answers were great! In my mind some of them overlapped and could be related. A person who belittles another's beliefs perhaps can't think rationally because of a mental illness. What popped into my mind was how certain churches seem to attract people with the mental illnesses mentioned by Swedenborg. Birds of a feather.....They feel more comfortable with their own kind and they probably reinforce each other in their irrational thinking. It is a challenge to talk with some of these folks who know they have the right understanding and are intent on "saving" others. I like your answer about how to relate with such a person. Friendliness and kindness are effective in melting their hearts to the point that they might share the rationality of their beliefs. Sometimes we don't really know what we think, or why, until we're put into a position of explaining it to someone else who is willing to listen.
It really is hard to get your mind around the fact that there is one ultimate spiritual truth, but that each of us probably has a different understanding of that truth, but I agree that that is the truth of it! Understanding this one concept will help bring us all together in harmony and unity, and that's what everyone wants and needs. Christian churches have traditionally not understood this and that's how we've ended up with thousands of separate churches who read the same Bible and believe in the same Jesus. I just learned that our beloved Pilgrims who left England to settle in the Massachusetts colony for religious freedom executed by hanging three Quakers in 1659 for their beliefs! In a sense, religious truth is relative to our own capacity to understand it. If we can think of it that way, then we can not just be tolerant of other people's understanding, but accept these understandings as something we might learn from. The real devil in all of this is the ego. People attach their understanding to their egos, and anyone who has a different view is seen as attacking their egos. Maybe that's where love and friendship need to show up.
I agree that Swedenborg was far ahead of his time in his understanding of mental illness and science in general. I'm sure there were few people in his day who could appreciate his thinking. Maybe there were, somewhere in the world, but they just didn't write it down. In many cultures you just couldn't express your real thoughts without being killed for thinking the wrong things. I'm sure that Swedenborg had to be careful who he expressed his thoughts to.
I'm so glad these Q & A's resonated with you, Harlan! I agree with you about how different churches have divided over their understanding of truth. This breakdown has led to some pretty dynamic shifts in Christianity, such as the Great Schism. What really moves me is Swedenborg's approach to understanding truth, and how, as Curtis mentioned, we all can glean aspects of it relative to our understanding and reception. This allows me to hold divine truth, as I receive it, in a way that becomes inviting (and curious) towards others and not judgmental of their reception. Or at least that's how I try and hold it ;)
I'll say it this way, let's say a person belonged to an exotic religion, a harmless one, wholesome, even one that loved God and Jesus, but socially was rejected, and even squashed by authorities. Now without a community to call one's own, a member of a particular religious set, IDK Levites, order of Melchizedek, Essenes, what have you is disbanded and their society is in ruin. So where do these people go to find fellowship? I would discourage calling Christians names and such because if Christianity was outlawed, where would the Christians go? Perhaps you may have demographic statistical evidence, to offer?
I wouldn't call it mental illness, but the fact that we are all on different levels of awareness, knowledge and understanding and/or simply vibrating to a different drum as Swedenborg explains. And these divisions exist in every single religion and philosophical belief system, btw, not exclusive only to Christians. There are many sects of Judaism with violent disagreements, also same w/ Hinduism, Buddhism etc. People who are over zealous are often new to the ideas that they push, and have great enthusiasm and want everyone to know what they know. They haven't calmed down yet. Knowledge and experience usually humbles a person, and calms one's zeal after a while. And with regards to the bible, not everyone interprets it the same way. There are great disagreements about it. It is not easy in some parts to interpret the meaning. And some people DO know more than others, or have a clearer understanding of spiritual truths and may want to share their knowledge and awareness, and try to correct and straighten out, perhaps some mis-interpretations of the nature of the spiritual world, just as the work of Swedenborg attempts to do. And others, well. are just delusional. What can you do but wait for them to mature and grow?
Also, its really hard for us, and wrong for us, imo, to try to judge the people who lived centuries ago and try to figure out their mindset. We haven't experienced what they experienced. They didn't have what we have now. They are our forefathers and they are the ones who got us to the place where we are now. We must recognize them for who they are, what they went through, the sacrifices and struggles, etc.and have gratitude, not condemn them for their lack of spiritual awareness.
I'm sure some people in his time, called Swedenborg mentally ill, and some who still do today.
Thanks for all your great work. I really enjoy your videos and I appreciate all the work you all put into researching and making your videos. They are very helpful.
Alex, thanks so much for this kind and supportive message! We feel so blessed!
This is brilliant, esp the lady answering Karen's question about accountability of Narcissists!! This is how I can still be friends with my exhusband.. I know he's not ok.. so i keep myself safe, but also actively love him
That sounds like a very spiritual stance, Soaping -- being able to love him and wish him well while keeping a safe distance. Healthy boundaries! Thanks for your comment, and thanks for being here with us!
Excellent program.
We're so glad to hear that!!
I think the law of attraction applies in the afterlife but not necessarily in the physical world. The new age movement gets this wrong in my opinion.
Here on Earth we come in contact with people of MANY different points of view and energies. This happens on purpose so that we are exposed to new things. On Earth, good comes in intimate contact with evil, and hopefully, good comes of it. This doesn't seem to happen in the afterlife.
People of very dis-like energies meet here on Earth. Seeing something "evil" in another DOES NOT mean that you possess the same characteristic (again, the new age gets this wrong). You can notice something destructive, dishonest, "wrong", or evil in another, simply because you NOTICE it. It doesn't mean that you are the same simply because you see "it" in another.
I totally agree with you, alex, that the "law of attraction" does not work on the physical, earthly plane the way it does in the afterlife. Have you seen our show about this? ua-cam.com/video/mIMKCKRC7rI/v-deo.html
Learning experiences within the 'school of matter'.
Have encountered narcissists, some even in my own family, and, sometimes you have to love and pray for them from a distance. Feel God has a place for them, as He does for everyone. Try to focus on my own spiritual growth, not criticize others. Criticizing others will do them or myself no good.
Such a compassionate response to difficult people in your life, Monica. Believing that EVERYONE is a beloved child of God, on a particular path led by God, does help -- sometimes from a distance!
@@offTheLeftEye
Once Googled, "do sociopaths go to Heaven?" The answer was, "sociopaths do not go to Heaven, because what good they do doesn't come from a place of love, neither do they go to Hell, as they did not choose to do evil, but are acting in self-preservation, so they go in-between Heaven and Hell, (which I would consider Purgatory). You may want to Google this question yourself and see what comes up.
@@monicaperez2843 Swedenborg offers a different answer, which we have shared in this video. That God can reveal what in a person's character is due to external, hereditary and bodily issues (which can be purged) and what is due to deliberate, deeper intentions. It is the deeper intentions that matter, which only God can see and reveal. No one is left in limbo or purgatory. What are your thoughts on both of these points of view?
@@offTheLeftEye
Can't recall what organization shared this, but they said sociopaths don't go to Heaven nor Hell, implying they were in a Purgatory type place. The fact that we are human means we are in God's image. Unfortunately, I think there is a "line in the sand." Don't think Purgatory or Hell, for that matter, is forever. Purgatory is like a sanitarium. Am sorry, I don't think I will agree 100 percent with everything you teach (neither I do with anyone else). Have seen the horrible damage sociopaths have done, and persons in history, such as dictators.
@@monicaperez2843 Oh, please don't think we are wanting you to agree with us 100%. It just seemed that you were unhappy with the view from that other organization, so I was wondering if anything we share here was resonating with you better. We totally respect that you must decide for yourself what makes the most sense!
Wonderful program!
How kind of you to say so! We're really quite honored to produce these episodes :)
Thanks for this reply on Robbie's Question. .❤️
You're welcome, kennyway! So glad Dr. Werner's response was helpful!
right you guys said it all Love this Question and answer download .ianswers some questions I had re angels Thank you for this download I'm going to save it
We're so glad to hear this show format resonates with you. Wishing you abundant joy today, my friend :)
Swedenborg says over and over again that the freedom that we experience is only 'apparent' freedom. This is an unpleasant idea at first, but when it is considered for long enough, it becomes obvious that this is a true statement.
Quakers were mentioned in this session. This religion was imbued with some very serious sexual misconduct. The founder of the religion was not responsible for this condition. I do not know if this is still true in our times, but Swedenborg was very critical of Quakerism in his era.
Swedenborg says that spirits may pass through many communities for a long period of 'time', until finding his or her true home.
Swedenborg visited many diverse communities at all levels of existence. He was guided by angels who in turn were governed directly from the Lord. He did not seem to be guided by similar spirits except in the most general sense of those who trust in, and are in service to, the Lord. Thanks again for a great discussion.
Thanks for these thoughts, Ken! "Apparent freedom" is an interesting premise, and I'm reminded of the varying types of freedom between the natural and spiritual world. When I think of freedom in the natural world, I come to the idea of spiritual equilibrium. We have the freedom and faculties to develop a heavenly or hellish spiritual character over the entirety of our life. In the spiritual world, inhabitants are in freedom, but there are regulations. Here's a passage from Swedenborg's Spiritual Diary: "One Law of order in the government of the universe by the Lord is that everyone is left in freedom. For without freedom, there is no life, nor any worship, and without freedom there is no correction. There is freedom in the other life also, but an apparent freedom. Everyone is allowed to will, an ability they think to be their own, nor can they distinguish it from the freedom in bodily life,* as they have told me several times. But there is a difference."
It would be great if you could do a show on gurus and the oneness aspect of new age teachings, great show thankyou💖
Thanks for the recommendation, Sharon! Sending love...
I think we have to be careful of branding narcissistic disorder as a mental illness. One is fully conscious of what is right and wrong here and they still choose to manipulate, control etc etc. They function in the world as normal and they usually are also quite rational when they choose to be! So please revisit this issue. I would have thought this is a type of demon possession (sirens?)?
That's a fair point-- there is certainly a line to be mindful of when discussing these issues. That being said, I think Rev. Wake did a good job of providing the criteria whereby her conclusion would be acceptable. Her logical progression of narcissistic behavior, to personality disorders, leading into mental illness makes sense to me. It's important to note that, as you said, we have to be careful "branding" certain disorders under a "blanket" framework. Each case is unique and there should be sensitivity involved regardless.
Hi FM, my life has been infested with narcissists from childhood, so I was forced to face the possibility that it is spiritual warfare. This to me is a more likely explanation. I have been involved in many 'survivors of narcissists' forums online and it is incredible how they act out of what seems to be a playbook. They often say the same things. They 'like the way they are' which means they don't care a fig for the suffering they cause in others.
Sexual immorality is high on the list. An indication of the possible demonic roots is the uncontrollable cursing. They start and cannot stop. This is horrible around kids. I could go on and on about them and write several books. Actually the Catholic psychologist Scott Peck did, one of them called 'People of the Lie'. I found something funny about them while growing up that they even prefer to believe lies rather than the truth. This is quite an indicator of severe spiritual sickness.
I 100% agree having been subject to n.p.d. abuse for 50 years. I woke up and immediately walked away for good.
Let me share my experience with narcissism. I was called a narcissist by my adult daughter. She felt my vibe throughout her life of partial resentment that when I had her I was not fully developed into what I believed God was calling me to be. That took a huge toll on my marriage and motherhood. So, she estranged herself from me as an adult. Did I know consciously that I was neglecting my daughter's emotional needs?? No, - but I knew subconsciously.
If I had slowed downand listened to God - I would have put her first - knowing that I come after. IT IS FEAR THAT CREATES NARCISSISTIC BEHAVIOR.
all quest lead to Swedenborg... After a year of extensively reading all sorts of spiritual theories, I found all of them interesting but most of the time the opposite theories were also fascinating and made sense to me. In this state of confusion, I always go back to Swedenborg cause his writings resonate with me the most.
Please note that ES has always referred back to the Lord from where we and he got the Love and Truth. Swedenborg is only a messenger who was blessed by the Lord with the task of telling us how it works.
I love your curiosity in searching for spiritual resources and guidance. It's heartening to hear how Swedenborg's Writings provide a central resonance in your development!
Absolutely they do. His books have given me an insight into the spiritual realm and an understanding of what life could be. Exciting times! Love you guys
Thanks so much for the love, JunkComa! Sending it right back to you.
Thank you.
Sure thing, Robert!
very cool. keep making these.
Will shall! Stay tuned for more Q&A's in the future...
Here's one from last week: ua-cam.com/video/t3R50HdWh3c/v-deo.html
…Some NDE´er tell that there was a „before“ comming to earth.
So my question ist; what did Swedenborg tell about the origin of our soul ?! Did
he ever mentioned things like “soul-plans” or a special purpose of our live. A
special thing that we decided to learn. Or is the soul created in a child. Every
new human a new soul and the life that follows is the consequence of “free
will”- decisions of others and ours…? I read often Swedenborg and did watch
EVERY episode of Swedenborg and life. Most episodes not only once… ;) Thanks a lot for doing the show!
Hi, Michael. We're so glad to know that you have been enjoying our channel! To answer your very good question, Swedenborg learned that a person's individual soul is created at the same time that their physical body is created. He learned that before physical birth, we existed as part of the mind--or, thoughts and feelings--of God. And yes, we certainly each have a unique purpose to fulfill, a special place in the grand scheme, if we choose to pursue it. I think of it not so much as a special lesson to learn, but rather a special, useful function and purpose to realize and fulfill. If you want to rewatch some shows that touch on these topics, check out "Does My Life Matter?" ua-cam.com/video/33FfPQsf_zU/v-deo.html "Do We Reincarnate?" ua-cam.com/video/kVYKEfpnxj0/v-deo.html and "How to Find Your Ture Self" ua-cam.com/video/3m9uAecvftM/v-deo.html
Thanks !
This question is basically about ectoplasm. Was ectoplasm known In Swedenborg’s time? I read that ectoplasm comes from a medium in a dream like trance and is made up of a mediums cells that the spirits “ thought force“ can step into and become seen in the physical world. Apparently these spirits use energy from their dimension and combine it with our energy here to produce various things that our 5 senses can see, hear, feel, etc. like the experiment that took place in the village of Scole in the 1990’s. I don’t understand this, but any explanation will help. Thanks.
Since he was writing in the 1700s, Swedenborg was using different terminology, so it can sometimes be hard to tell when he might be talking about something that would be expressed in different words today. He does talk about different levels of spiritual substance, and there is a level of spiritual substance that is very close to the physical level. We talk a bit about this kind of lower level substance in our show "Do Ghosts Exist" ua-cam.com/video/M85ttx9Hzm0/v-deo.html There were definitely spirits who could affect the physical matter of his body and things around him.
A question related to a recent episode:
Many people have asked why god allows suffering in the world. The answer is usually that god allows people the free will to choose good or evil. But to me this is not an adequate answer, and Swedenborg's description of the spirals of our mind is a good illustration of this.
Swedenborg says that god creates our minds with an upper half that naturally pulls towards heaven and a lower half that naturally pulls towards hell, and we sit in the space between them. Considering this, and considering just simple observation of life, it seems clear to me that human beings were specifically designed to suffer.
So the answer to the question "Why does god allow suffering in the world?" seems to be "Because suffering is what he wants."
I am not saying this with any sense of spite or malice, it is just an observation of life. The suffering and struggle and division of the world is not just external, it reaches all the way deep inside of us, into our human design itself.
Does Swedenborg go into any greater detail on this subject?
Great question, BrandonD. Actually, according to what Swedenborg learned, God did not create us with a mind that has lower half pulling us toward hell. God originally created humanity with a mind that was totally in Divine order, looking only toward heaven. It was over a very, very long time that humanity gradually used the God-given sense of autonomy to focus more and more on lower, external, and physical pursuits, which polluted and corrupted the original form of the human mind.
It might help to compare it to someone whose body has been poisoned over a long period of time by toxic substances, or who has a debilitating infection or painful bodily disorder. Imagine a doctor able to help this patient. What the doctor wants is healing and for the person to feel and function well and in good health. However, the only way to get there is through some painful processes of detoxing or other treatments or surgeries. Does the doctor want the patient to suffer? No. But the doctor knows that in cases like these, the only way to better health and happiness and healing is through some processes that will cause some temporary suffering.
Since humanity "fell" from its original state of being in the order of heaven, we have all inherited a corrupted form of mind, with a very strong pull downward. God does not want suffering, but he wants healing and happiness for us. At present in the story of humanity, the only way of getting people back into the heavenly order that we were intended to enjoy is through spiritual detoxing, which involves suffering. It involves letting go of a lot of lower-self desires and cravings that we are prone to from heredity-a spiritual detoxing process, weaning off of our "drugs". Like the doctor, God wants the healing, and so wants us to go through the process that will get us there. And like a good doctor, God will do anything possible to help us get through that suffering part.
The promise is that the original design of humanity can be restored someday, and that humanity is on a long path of waking up to what is needed to get back to that heavenly design-a heavenly state of mind. Then there will not be a need for suffering anymore. And any of us today willing to go through the suffering of letting go of lower-self desires and agendas are helping move the whole of humanity along toward that goal.
Thank you for that extensive answer, I really appreciate you taking the time :)
I try not to deal in things like the fall of man from eden, because that is not something I can directly know about. I just know about here and now, and I was born with that same divided mind that swedenborg describes, and god created me, so from my perspective god *did* create my mind.
That body analogy you gave makes a lot of sense if reincarnation is a reality, because the same soul is poisoning itself and then healing itself over the course of many lifetimes. But in swedenborg's model of the universe, it is like one person poisons his body, and then that person vacates his body and a new person is born into that poisoned body and must deal with the negative consequences through no fault of his own. He has no opportunity to make the right or wrong choice, and this seems rather unjust.
If the answer to the above dilemma is that all men would equally choose to poison their body, well this doesn't feel right either. Why would the entirety of humanity be designed in such a way that we would *all* choose to poison our body rather than make it healthy?
There is some strangeness in this subject that I'm having difficulty reconciling. But I really appreciate your feedback and I love your youtube channel. I welcome any further feedback, but don't feel obligated because I'm sure this discussion could be dragged on for pages and pages :)
I think it's not something I could make clear unless you can picture that all members of humanity, past and present, are connected like cells in a body. Our actions and choices all effect each other. We each have personal freewill, and can open up to let God lift us out of the fallen human condition, but we are all born into the shared human condition. We are not born into someone else's poisoned body. We are each cells born into a big picture that has become sick, and we can each either add to the sickness or be a part of the healing process. When there are more cells choosing to be poison, the whole is more sick. When there are more cells choosing to be healed and to be part of the healing, then the whole becomes more and more healthy. However, the Lord has provided that every cell who wants his help and engages in the process can be lifted up and protected from the poison, and receive heavenly life.
Maybe it would be easier for you to picture it as an environment. Say you are born into a town that is run down and polluted. You are affected by the problems of starting out in that polluted environment. But you are NOT trapped there. You have the freedom to either make the effort to move somewhere else, and/or to work to clean up the town.
It's not true that a person "has no opportunity to make the right or wrong choice, and this seems rather unjust." We are born into a polluted spiritual environment, but we absolutely can do something about it. We can choose to make efforts that lead us out of that into a good spiritual environment. And if we don't throw more trash or pollution into the town, we are not making it worse. If we actually make some efforts to clean it, we are making it better. Do you see what I mean? We're born into a mess made by others before us, but we can be totally empowered to make change for ourselves and others.
Thank you for the response. I think you might have mistaken what I meant by the phrase "has no opportunity to make the right or wrong choice, and this seems rather unjust." - I do think we can do something to change our circumstances, rather I meant that a person must suffer the consequences of past humanity's mistakes without ever having the opportunity to *not* make those same mistakes themselves.
I think the ingrained idea of an eternal hell in the classical christian sense is what clouds the mind here. If there is an eternal hell for individuals, and some individuals are born into more negative circumstances through no fault of their own, and therefore more likely to err and fall into sin, this feels unjust. But I recall in your other videos that it is the INTENTION that is the important thing, rather than the specific actions. So even a person who appears bad might be actually good in his particular harsh circumstances.
Thank you again for taking the time to respond, it was helpful!
Yes, you are very right: it's the intention that matters, not the actions, and no one is held responsible for actions due to ignorance or other things beyond their control. And the more I read Swedenborg, the more I think that hell is not eternal after all. On the topic of external life circumstances seeming unfair for some people, we discuss that in our show "Life Isn't Fair... Or Is It?" ua-cam.com/video/42BEBqN0H3Y/v-deo.html I'm glad you ask these kinds of questions, Brandon! I believe that God is Love and Justice itself, so it's good to be on a journey of trying to understand how that applies when what we see around us is a very imperfect world.
Thanks. Also for the Narcissistic understanding 👍💫
I have become aware that some people who are not so religious seem to believe in their parents on the other side making them more powerful or aware of other people's thoughts, which I believe is just spirits finding them this way in a controlling way. Having them play control games with others. Them not knowing the truth, of what is happening. Being used by these spirits, without being fully aware of it. People being deceived by a source that is not marrying truth and goodness.
That does sound like a potentially harmful or misguided circumstance for those seeking to make contact with the spiritual world.
At around 11:00 regarding the question of debating absolute truth and belief in heaven and hell, as many others have said, spiritual belief in any subject is really a matter of intuition (or of the heart as stated in the video) because it's only through intuition that God's spirit talks to us. Intellectual arguments usually lead nowhere since anyone can argue any point or make counter arguments. This is why in the law, a lawyer will usually never talk about truth or falsity, but how well they successfully argued a specific point in the law. This intellectual exercise very skillfully misses the point of knowing any kind of absolute truth.
Thanks for sharing these insights, Terry! I like your juxtaposition of lawyers steering away from truth or falsity in light of an intellectual exercise of debate in context of the law. I might also add that lawyers often have to move the jurors in a more emotional way depending on the case, particularly is their client has been harmed in any manner. I find it interesting how spiritual belief (or the acknowledgment of truth divine) becomes fully realized through application. In other words, we take a spiritual principle, hold it with our intellect, and then from there can see its authenticity in the application of such truth into our lives. All of revelation speaks to our states, and are things we can grow from. That's how faith becomes alive!
Very nice !WELL said!👍🕸🕸🕸🕷
Thanks so much, Gabriel!
Hi. I listened to your ending and summary. I know God is present in everything. it's the concept that he doesn't step in and stop bad things happening. This is so unfare. He heals peoples minds and bodies as i've seen in my own life. I'm not afraid of dying. I enjoyed todays video . especially that narcissists don't go to hell for their behaviour. I am co-dependent and have attracted many (3) narc relationships. I studied this and learned why I was doing this and why I was a door mat for others to walk over. They each mirrored my mother. So why does God allow children to be abused and doesn't allow angels to step in top help them. I need help with that one concept. I believe and understand most of swedednborg's teachings. It's just that one thing. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Hi, Ellie. I appreciate your compassionate heart. Please watch this short clip, offering some thoughts about your question, and see what you think: ua-cam.com/video/UIMfRE0wmOA/v-deo.html
Wow good video this. I have an opinion on the Question about "Are there difrent truths for difrent people" just something I learned a while back, its kind of a corospondence involving a 🌈. We all see a rainbow in difrent colour formation due to the fraction of light hitting our retna in the eye ,some people see red as the first colour and some see yellow , so two people next to eachother see difrent formation due to our difrent positions and height etc 🙂
I love this illustration, kennyway! Yes, we're all a unique combination of love and wisdom, good and truth. It's so good to keep this in mind, when we look out and see such a broad range of opinions and stances in this world!
26:53 - Emanuel said no 2 heavens r exactly the same.
Aup I've watched a lot of your videos, and the one where you said about spirits attaching to people to feed of there addictions I'm myself a painkiller addict and battled for the last five years I'm in England so it's easy to buy otc codeine but the also contain 200mgs of ibuprofen per tablet I'm currently having to remember which pharmacy I went to and who served me last ext I've been in rehab twice and I genuinely don't want to use anymore my doctors said my kidneys are low functioning I'm currently using 36 tablets a day as opposed to max safe dose of only six the sad truth is I'm addicted to the codeine but have to take the dangerouse amounts of ibuprofen as well, I've resigned myself that I'll be dead within five more years according to my doctors, I don't know what Eles to do, I play an acoustic guitar and tried to express my struggle though songs I've wrote I'm 42 on new years eve and I'm so lost, I've been reading about what consciousness is and what's where n how the afterlife fits into the whole point of being I've always been intrested in the next world that I'm just not living in this world to the fullest I guess the reason why is because I've always felt closer to the afterlife than I have to this life, theres so much more to my story,I'd like to say your videos really do help me, take care and all the best from derby east Midlands England
Hey Duncan, Thanks so much for sharing your story here and letting us hear about the struggle you’re going through. Your story really touches my heart. I have many thoughts in response, and my hope and prayer is that by sharing some of them, it communicates the love I and many others have for you! There’s a story in the Bible about the prophet Elisha who is surrounded by an army about to attack him, and his servant is afraid, but Elisha says, “Do not be afraid, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them” (2 Kings 6:16). And he prays for the Lord to open the [spiritual] eyes of his servant. The servant’s eyes are opened and he sees “the mountain full of horses and chariots of fire.” Mountains are a symbol of divine love, and the horses and chariots are the powerful ideas rooted in that love that we can use to fight against our destructive behaviors. I hope that you’re given glimpses or some sense of the power of the Lord’s good will for you. “For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope” (Jeremiah 29:11). Is there any way I could help, to be a part of your community of support? I remember when I was quitting smoking and drinking, I had a sign on my door that said, “Just for today, I will…” and a quote from Swedenborg about the importance of taking care of my body so I could serve the Lord’s will (actually the quote said something like, “to be useful in this world and the next”--we are useful to both worlds where we are right now!). Know you’re not alone and you don’t have to do it alone. Are you already connected to a narcotics anonymous 12 step group in your area? I hope that you keep making music and I pray that you gain freedom from this addiction, and the clarity and strength that you long for. I’m so glad the videos on our channel are helping you. With love.
Chelsea Odhner hello Chelsea thank you for your kind words and I will check out the bible passages you refer about I uesd to go to alcohol and drug counselling yes I too had a drink proplem but I just replaced the drink for codeine, people say well that's it you done it once you can do it again I drank every day for 22 years I've only been on codeine for five but it has a lot more power over me than the drink did really I can't figure that out,anyway going to those meetings made me feel worse I'm on medication for social anxiety I can't even perform at open mica now like I use to live doing I've lost two marridges one to drink the other to codeine I see my daughter beathany a few times each week and she visits me when she can bless her, I'm gonna keep trying to taper off the pills and I will always keep trying but I'm sure I'll take them to my grave so to speak once again thank you for your kindness and God bless you Chelsea
Many thanks,,Duncan.
That's really hard and there is a lot to grieve. I totally get that there's one part of you that "genuinely doesn't want to use anymore" and another part that is resigned to "using to your grave." It's a battle of two wills as Peter Rhodes says in our show on Do Spirits Play a Role in Addiction. I am reminded of this passage from Swedenborg's book Divine Providence:
"This is a battle against things that are actually within us, things that we feel are part of us; and we cannot fight against ourselves except from a deeper self, and only because of a freedom there. It then follows that the inner self is fighting against the outer self at such times, is doing so in freedom, and is forcing the outer self to obey. This is self-compulsion; and we can see that it is not inconsistent with our freedom and rationality, but quite in accord with them."
--Divine Providence 147
I'm glad you'll keep trying--you're worth it! And I hope you feel free to stay in touch with us here.
Hello@Duncan, I've just come across your comment, it's been a year, how are you, have things changed?
I agree 100 percent with the lady at the end talking about disorders as narcissism eventually about psychopathy and all similar where a person can not be held accountable for their actions at all. I have this opinion already like 20 years and I was bombarding all the preachers and Christian friends I knew with this question and always got some stupid answer that these people are doing it on purpose and they will go to hell. Many of these people are not my friends anymore as I found their opinions just "not intelligent". Not sure what intelligence they are operating from and what God do they believe in but I respect it from distance. I speak about this narcissistic subject a lot in my videos feel free to have a look. Also that these people can be possessed by bad spirits and I also speak that they are not accountable so we should forgive them their damage on us. Many times I think of what may happen to my ex-girlfriend if I pray for her and God can do some good work or miracle with her to change her consciousness into an empathetic one. This is something I don't know.
Sounds like you have developed a very compassionate heart through a very difficult experience, Tome. If she wants to change, the Lord can help her do that -- if it is something within her rational control. If not, in the next life where earthly concerns fall away, she'll have a chance to learn and grow and choose her spiritual direction.
@@offTheLeftEye Sounds great, cool!
I love y'all so much...
Love to you too, Debra! Hope the new year finds you thriving!
@@offTheLeftEye Thank you, but no, not at all. I had everything in place and was thriving and then life decided to throw a wrench into the machine and I've fallen down the mountain once again. I am losing the strength and ambition I used to have to immediately start climbing back up. The more times I fall, the weaker I get and because of this weakness, I have fallen right back down to the ground, unable to grab onto something because there's nothing on the mountain to physically support me. I'm standing at the bottom looking up, once more, wondering if I should even bother and just lay down and go to sleep, hoping The Lord will do His job and come and save me. I've asked Him a million times in my lifetime, I wonder what he's thinking. I know he's at the top looking down, watching me, and knows that any minute I will make that decision to lay down for good. Jesus help me. Let me live the life I want. Helping others, working and doing something I love, contributing to society. Give me more strength. Great strength. I'm getting old and losing the battle. Amen. 😭❤️🙏
@@debramercer5896 I'm so sorry to hear that! I wish I could take away your pain. I hope you feel the hand of God lifting you up and carrying you through this difficult time soon, my friend. Sending you love and praying for some peace for you!
@@offTheLeftEye I want you to know that it's not the real me talking like a victim of life. It's having to live with the disease/evil spirits. You know, I believe that because I have been so oppressed from birth, that my brain grew into a dysfunction that continues. Please know I don't want to give up. I may eventually just lose the battle... just because.
Please pray hard for me... I do, too, always talk to Jesus. I can feel my spirit say "just remember if you keep praying and trying, you'll make it". And I can feel the evil spirits saying "it will all be over if you just let go". I don't believe if I let go that I'll go to where my parents and brother are... at first... for maybe a very long time. 😭🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏😭😔
@@debramercer5896 I hope you know that whatever happens, we do not judge you. We wish you peace and comfort, and we know that the Lord is with you working for the same. You are in our prayers, my friend!
This perspective on the crusades is so out of whack. They were very much a response to centuries of Muslim violent aggression against the Christian kingdoms in the Levant. The entire region around the Mediterranean was Christian until it was taken by force.
I am not a scholar about the Crusades, Laereom, so I will not debate you here. But the point is about people hurting one another in the name of religion.
I would like to ask, will I go to hell because I have had little praying time and reading the bible these lasts 6 months? Or is it a demon trying to make me feel hopeless? Really would like to listen your answer.
Blessings to you Pedro! See our answer to your question under the Psalm 91 video.
Hello,.. regarding what is said here about "Mental Illness", I would direct this person to Jerry Marzinsky and his considerable experience on this topic. Firstly, the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual whatever edition, is a compete work of fiction. Secondly, in my own instance , and Jerry's experience, Entities are the Primary cause of the mental torment which is symptomatic of "Mental Illness". This torment is made possible by Traumas, that occur mostly in childhood. The Entities have created the world and thus the conditions to favour these traumatic conditions. Drugs and alcohol exacerbate these traumas. Swedenborg may have a different perspective if he was alive today.
Thanks for mentioning Jerry Marzinsky's work, Mark. We've done some interviews with him and it's very powerful to hear him describe what he's witnessed.
I think these four shows feature a conversation with Jerry:
How to Deal with Evil Spirits: ua-cam.com/video/RmWrAoML2hE/v-deo.html (I hr 15 mins)
How to Free Your Mind from Hell: ua-cam.com/video/B832ykXZeYU/v-deo.html (1 hr 29 mins)
The Lies Evil Spirits Tell Us: ua-cam.com/video/Qaqd9Fhsxpg/v-deo.html (1 hr 19 mins)
Do Spirits Play a Role in Addiction?: ua-cam.com/video/lMxdZiguxlI/v-deo.html (1 hr 1 min)
I pray for all who suffer this kind of torment to find relief!
If someone spits in your face it is assault and should be dealt with immediately by the police. Spitting at someone is just a beginning and more injurious rhings will come later.
Thanks for sharing these thoughts with us! I agree that situations like these need to be addressed...and there are a few ways that people have traditionally responded to such adversity, as noted in the video.
The lady that was talking about narcissist say they're not accountable on Earth got me confused🤔
It's a confusing topic, Trevor! I think her point was that personality disorders (like narcissistic personality disorder) can be equated with mental illness, and in a state of mental illness, we don't have access to our *rationality* -- that is, we are not functioning from a place of mental/spiritual wholeness. When that is the case, Swedenborg says people are not held SPIRITUALLY responsible for their actions. That doesn't mean that the harm they cause is OK -- causing harm is not OK -- but rather that it doesn't necessarily mean they're heading for hell. When we pass over, and are free of our physical bodies and the various illnesses they cause, we WILL be operating in a state of mental/spiritual wholeness, and then we CAN choose whether we are committed to self-centeredness and greediness, or whether we are open-hearted to other people and to God. So I think her comment was focused on the spiritual future of the narcissist, not on the people affected by the narcissist. I wish we could protect and defend all those people, for sure! Does any of that clarify it at all?
Did Swedenborg gather information from people in the afterlife unknown to a man living in 18th century Northern Europe? Like when he met Chinese people in Heaven, did they mention the Buddha, the Bhagavan Gita from the mouths on Indians in the afterlife?
Hi Moesy! Yes but I can't say for certain whether they were technically "unknown" to him because there's evidence that he had some knowledge of Eastern cultures based on the books he had in his library. He definitely interacted with angels from many different parts of the world (and beyond!) and that was partly how he gained his understanding of the universality of divine love and wisdom. I don't think he ever specifically mentions the Buddha or the Bhagavad Gita but he makes more general statements about divine revelation throughout the world/universe and how people picture and relate to God differently. Does this help to answer your question?
What does say about the rapture?
Great question, Robert! Our panelists talk about this in this old Q&A episode, at about 15 minutes in: ua-cam.com/video/7b--acA4jQY/v-deo.html
I hope it's helpful!
This is very interesting thank you for your work. I haven't yet watched all of it but I just wanted to point out a thing about the Crusades mentioned in the answer to Robbie's question, because I think it's important and it bothers me... The first Crusade actually happened following years and years of oppression and massacre from Muslim communities toward Christian communities, this was indeed a violent response from Christians but with the goal to save those communities from being wiped out after they already had suffered so much for a long time. It wasn't to aggressively convert nice and peaceful people who were just living their life, it was to protect. So I don't think it makes a right example of an "aggressive response to different beliefs". Or technically it does if you understand that the aggression was from the Muslims' side for this one. I just felt the need to say it because this is very often misunderstood.
Thank you for adding in this perspective. Violent conflicts are usually due to bad behavior from both sides!
@@offTheLeftEye Thank you for your reply! Indeed many conflicts arise from every sides being at fault but sometimes there is one perpetrator and one victim (like if a kid is murdered I doubt we could say the kid was also at fault for being murdered! The murderer is the only culprit). But that in itself may then start a violent cycle where everyone on all sides ends up resorting to aggression because they feel that's their only choice. Which in my opinion is what happened with the Crusades, initially at least. But well, I wasn't there so I can only speak from my own understanding of history! Anyway thank you again for everything you do with this channel, I discovered it a while ago but am just recently starting to actually get into it.
Should we pity evil spirits? Feel sorry for them? Do they have a chance at reaching higher levels of enlightenment?
Great questions, Jim! I think it makes sense to pity evil spirits. If we can tap into the divine love within and around us, we feel what it's like to be loved, happy, accepted, and cared for. The joy of sharing! Evil spirits don't feel that - they actively shun it. What's not to pity? Their choice can only lead to their misery, and the desire to bring others down with them. It's a total bummer.
Swedenborg does say hell is eternal, (or, one might say, CAN BE - so long as people continue to choose it). Whether people STAY for eternity, I don't know. Swedenborg never gives any specific account, that I have found, of a spirit leaving hell.
However, he does say many things that lead me to believe that any spirit who decides he or she would rather be good and live in harmony with God could have that option.
Overall, what Swedenborg learned about God, is that God's Divine Providence is always working to lead us closer to the Divine. ALWAYS. God's love and mercy are infinite and unconditional, and so if we want a relationship with God, at any time, we can have it.
Swedenborg also talks about how punishment is only used as a last resort in hell for spirits who cannot learn to change their behavior through any other means. To me, this indicates that the goal of punishments is reformation, to help spirits learn that they can change and become better and thus happier.
So personally, I do think that people who want to leave hell can do so, but would need to do a great deal of work to learn how to love God and be of service to others, and this would be difficult for them. But I do not have an explicit example of this in Swedenborg's writings.
As for making evil spirits' bad behavior go dormant, God does have the power to change us, but because of His infinite love, He doesn't. He lets us choose what we love and what we want to do. If we lost this freedom to choose our paths, we wouldn't be ourselves at all, but would be more like Robot Angels.
Short clips: [this one talks about the purpose of punishment, I think] Can Evil Spirits Be Reborn to have a Second Chance on Earth? ua-cam.com/video/LwBP1XpIdPU/v-deo.html and Is There Suffering in Hell? ua-cam.com/video/xW-7kF3r55w/v-deo.html
Are There Different Levels of Hell? ua-cam.com/video/sSOOUPPGXJs/v-deo.html
Full episodes: [about how the Lord always leads us to Divinity] Divine Providence ua-cam.com/video/wFuGb3G2ZVw/v-deo.html [why we have to choose between good and evil, and why it's better to not be robots] Why Bad Things Happen ua-cam.com/video/_F3Gokp44Qo/v-deo.html
I hope that helps, Jim!
@@offTheLeftEye As always your answers are spot on, exactly what I need to enhance my spiritual growth. I'm always delighted with the depth and certainty, and the clarity of OTLE's writing. You have all built a great team, and I'm always grateful that you all do what you do. Thank you.
@@jimosage6499 Thank you so much for your kind words! So glad I could help! And I love the questions, because it gives me an opportunity to learn more spiritually too when I research them! (= God bless!
On the topic of narcissism, I am left puzzled to believe that one would be incapable of ration?
I have been subjected to narcissistic abuse since birth by an older sibling who was not abused by our mom but abusive to both my mom & I? I believe some are actually born this way, thus the term "bad seed"? By the time I was 7 yrs old, I had suffered 2 head injuries both required a trip to E.R. and stitches from this outrageously jealous sibling. Who was very capable of being rational on the outside to others. But, was only that of a narcissist at home to my mother and I? From 52 years of dealing with this horrible personality disorder in my family. I cannot describe it any other than that of pure evil. It takes great pride in its ability to deceive, cheat, steal, and create chaos & confusion amongst others. But worse it sadistically enjoys the suffering it inflicts on the targeted one/ones. It is not human by a human shell a vehicle operating under the influence of evil. They are able to ration. They do in a manipulative way. By, no means do I intend to offend, I am only trying to understand? Namaste.
Hello, snoopy. I'm so very sorry that you have suffered this way at the hands of your sibling. When we use the word "rationalilty" in this context, that does not mean cleverness. Someone can be very clever and manipulative and yet be insane. So, by rationality, we mean an ability to realize the impact of what you are doing. Ethical empathy. And we are not saying every person with narcissistic tendencies doesn't know what they are doing. Some most certainly do, and therefore are totally responsible for their actions. But for others, it is a case of mental illness in which they don't have the ability to feel empathy for what others are going through. Does that make it more clear what we are sharing in this video?
The day before my boyfriend died, it was a just a normal but out of the extraordinary happy day for him, he had his own little feast going on, he told me how he felt etc, I always think, should’ve not let him eMate so much? Should be not let him open that Champaign bottle? Could’ve I took him to the doctor early in the day, when he mentioned that he was feeling ok, not great, should’ve I prayed more with him?could’ve do a better job doing coed to him? What you are saying is that no matter how I would’ve done things differently, he was predestined to died that day and no a minute extra? When he finally had a person that he loved and wanted to live a life with? Why God couldn’t have him extra time to finally live a happy life after waiting so long to find a partner to share his dreams with? And still having such a young kid that he adored?
It's very normal to be flooded with guilt messages after someone you loved dies. It's very normal to agonize over things you feel that you "should have" done. But those messages are false. You could not have known what was coming. You did not do anything wrong. I know it is very hard, but you need to find a way to counteract those messages that come into your mind. For me (Karin) after my daughter died, it helped me to write down the guilt messages that would come into my mind, and then next to each message write a compassionate response, something I believed that God or my daughter would be saying to comfort me. Do you think you could try that?
It is not that your boyfriend was predestined to die by God. But it was foreseen by God and provided for. The timing when someone dies is not due to any one factor, but many factors. God foresees it and takes care of that person, helping him to transition. I know that it seems so unfair to have him die right when he was ready to start a life with you. I know other couples that this has happened to. It is never God's will that people be separated early. That is just a condition of this imperfect world. But God is working right now to keep you and your boyfriend connected in love. From this earthly side, it seems that you and your boyfriend have lost an opportunity. But in the end, this temporary separation will be only a tiny speck compared with the eternity you will be able to spend together. All the dreams that you had together will be fulfilled. And that will apply to his relationship with his child, also.
Again, my heart aches for you, because knowing all this does not take away the pain and the grief. It is just going to hurt very much for a while. All I can promise is that eventually, the pain will ease. For now, just pay attention to what you need each day to get through. Seek support from others when you need it!
What about Old Souls?
Can you tell me how you would define the term "Old Soul"? What does that mean to you, or how have you heard it defined?
Great stuff! How do you feel about the Constitution?
Hi there! Would you be willing to specify your question for me? That can be such a broad question, with many different ways to answer!
Hello there Curtis, Jonathan, Chelsea, Karin and all the OTLE team!
I'm trying to figure out the afterlife.
Everyone is welcome in heaven, but according to the kind of life they lived on Earth, some will be very proeminent individuals, others will be proeminent, others will be ordinary citizens, and others will be in need of some serious character reformation.
Hence, people full of self importance may not accept discipline, or a role in what they see to be as "second class citizens" in heaven. Hence, they will oppose God and go to hell (by their own choice).
Earthbound spirits would be spirits that reject heaven and wish so bad to return to the Earth. Some of them may be trying to reincarnate (a impossibility, according to Swedenborg). They count as the "opposing God" side (hellish spirits).
They may choose at anytime to accept heaven and then move on (we hear stories about earthbound spirits who at some point decide to join the mainstream spiritual world).
I had this all figured out myself based on things I hear from you and also other sources I research. What do you think about it? Am I spacing out? Thank you! Josué.
Great inquiry, Josue. One of the ways Swedenborg explains it is the human body. Heaven is like that. Some organs are what we might call vital, like the brain and heart and lungs, and others are less so, in that a person can survive without both kidneys. And yet each contributes value to the whole body. The heart does not look down on the spleen and say "I am more important". They work for the same causes. In trying to understand the workings of heaven an analogy like this can help me. It also describes those spirits that do not end up staying in heaven. Here is a video that includes a portion (minute 14) about heaven.
ua-cam.com/video/ZrH-wsVfkSA/v-deo.html
Bless you on this treasure hunt? It is worth learning more.
I watch this channel all the time and usually agree and love the things said. I must respectfully disagree about the existence of the devil. This is the 2nd video that has said he does not exist. I truly don't understand how you can say that when the Bible clearly speaks of his existence. For example, Matthew 4:1-11. 4:1 " Then Jesus was led into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." 4:5 "Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple."4:8 "Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor" 4:9 " All this I will give to you, he said, if you will bow down and worship me" 4:10 " Jesus said to him, away from me Satan! For it is written: worship the Lord your God, and serve him only" 4:11 "Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him." How can you agree with Swedenborgs stance against what the Bible states? I do agree with basically all I have learned from Swedenborgs experiences, but he wasn't the "Messiah" and was human like everyone else. I watch your channel every day and think you guys do an amazing job, although I am a bit disappointed in teaching others that the devil isn't real. He definitely is.
Hi, Renee! I'm so glad to know that you are out there in our audience. I'm glad that you enjoy the shows, and I'm glad that you also feel free to respectfully disagree.
Swedenborg learned that when the Bible speaks of "the Devil" it is talking about the collective efforts of all the evil spirits in hell. We made a show about that called "Is the Devil Real?" ua-cam.com/video/ljR4_gs0Tek/v-deo.html So, all of hell was working to attack Jesus, to tempt him, to sabotage him. They work together as gangs, but sometimes present themselves as if they were one being:
"Jesus asked him, saying, 'What is your name?' And he said, 'Legion,' because many demons had entered him.
-Luke 8:30
"Then He asked him, 'What is your name?' And he answered, saying, 'My name is Legion; for we are many.' . . . . Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid."
-Mark 5:9,15
You might also be interested in "The Spiritual Battles of Jesus Christ" ua-cam.com/video/zVVOypnm9bU/v-deo.html
So basically, you (Swedenborg) and Renee are saying the same thing. Yes, there is a *force* that some have named "the devil", or satan.
Yes, exactly, Ann!
Regarding the input of Rev. Wilma Wake on whether those with NPD (and the like) will be 'excused' for their behavior, I disagree with her appeal to the DSM-defined category of 'mental illness' and implied lack of rationality. The DSM observes outward behaviors and expressed thoughts/emotions, and then categorizes them. The DSM does *not* hold the answers as to 'why' people behave as they do, and the spiritual world has to do with the 'why' (motivations.)
According to the DSM, ANY thoughts or behaviors which do not conform to a societal standard, or 'norm,' are able to be considered a mental illness. These categories are created by humans, and change according to culture (for evidence of this, simply research the fact that homosexuality was once considered to be mental illness, and is no longer.) To call maladjusted behaviors anything other than 'mental illness' would be to discredit the ability of the psych field to 'fix' the problems, which is a motivator for them to keep defining destructive behavior as such.
People with sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies tend to have sadistic fun with therapists who approach the issue from a "poor thing, doesn't know what he is doing," perspective. These types enjoy getting one over on 'mental health professionals,' and gain a sense of power from it.
I do appreciate the point you're making, Shanna. I suppose at the end of the day, only the Lord truly knows whether or not our freedom is in tact enough to be held accountable for our motivations and choices. But there is a certain level of disability where the mental faculties are not able to experience the level of freedom that would allow for us to develop our spiritual character.
Jesus talks about "hating your mother and brother" and renouncing the world. But he clearly wasn't an ascetic. His work was rooted in the earth, markets, relationships, every day life. Do you have any videos or answers to this type of question? Am I "allowed" to enjoy sex, wine, laugh at a joke, etc ? What does it mean to be in the world but not of it?
It all has to do with priorities, and what kind of inner spirit is contained in outer activities. If spiritual and heavenly goals are your priority, then any earthly activities and enjoyments will be subservient to those higher priorities. So, for instance, you won't let the enjoyment of jokes overrule kindness to others, and you'll avoid indulging in jokes that hurt others. Or, you won't let enjoyment of sex overrule genuine love and kindness to others. And usefulness is also a factor. You won't let enjoyment of foods or drinks overrule attention to what might be damaging your body. Jokes and sex and the enjoyment food and drink in ways that enhance friendship, kindness, love and physical and spiritual health are very good parts of life! God created the physical world to be enjoyed. We did a show about prioritizing four basic categories of love or enjoyment, if you are interested: ua-cam.com/video/pPxZjSWzmPw/v-deo.html
offTheLeftEye this makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you
To read and understand the writings of Swedenborg or to listen to your videos seems to require an individual to have a certain sense of the spiritual and be able to grasp what could be called highly esoteric thought and to be open-minded to new concepts. You could even say it requires a certain level of intelligence. Where does this leave people steeped in cultural ignorance or people who mindlessly insist on following the religion of their fathers? Where does it leave those who can be clinically certified as having low I.Q.s, or anyone who can never be expected to progress beyond anything but a hand-to-mouth existence? I'm sure we've all met them. Are they left out of the promise?
There are different forms of intelligence. Many people with high I.Q.s seem to have no intelligence concerning spiritual matters. Some people who have low I.Q.s may be spiritual giants. I believe that most people can increase their I.Q.s by just using their brains to expand their thinking. Interacting mentally with smart people will make you smarter. The opposite is probably true also. The challenge is to create an environment where people feel free to express what they're thinking without fear of criticism. This is a real challenge in a society where the rich and gifted do not live near the ordinary people. There's no way to interact. It's a form of segregation. In some states the schools are supported only by local property taxes, so the rich neighborhoods have a lot more money to spend on schools that the poor neighborhoods.
Manfred Knight.
Swedenborg taught that any one who in faith applies the goodness of God into their actual life will end up in heaven.
It does not depend on understanding all the intricacies that Swedenborg goes into.
He speaks quite admiringly of the simple , rural folk with a common sense faith in God.
I think level of IQ is irrelevant, and certainly up to whose standard of measurement one is going on. Helen Keller wasn't able to read or write, and these days she most certainly would have been classified as a mute, or viewed as having lower intelligence simply due to her disabilities. God worked through her, for example, without so much as a word. This evidence leads me to believe that just like the heart condition, only God knows how to work through each individual according to Divine Planning. Some doctors are exceptionally gifted in obtaining knowledge, yet lack bedside manner or empathy. Is that intelligence in the eyes of people, or the eyes of God? I would guess it's not my place to put weight on any societal standard...I too am frustrated by the indoctrination of religion unto people, suffocating their own free will & mindset, but I do know that the promise is for all to be redeemed by Truth, and I've seen people simply plucked out of an organization or religion because of experience, not necessarily intelligence. I pray for everyone who is in bondage by religion that their eyes be opened to the beauty of God. I want to take control and put on Swedenborg videos in every restroom, restaurant, theater...but I remember that God is in every single one of us, and I have to let God worry about God for the moment. Like this video really brought home the potential in each and every one of us, because we're all rooted in God, the Lord is sharing information and providing for us--all of us--everyday. These are all things I tell myself and have come to know when dealing with the opposite structures of our daily--culture, society, measurements, religion. Swedenborg opened up, what I believe, what Jesus was trying to say---before people got a hold of it and molded it to an agenda. Isn't Swedenborg text freedom? I pray for everyone to experience this freedom. Religion and cultural concepts really damage us and prevent us from being the greatest version of ourselves we can be.
I agree with all these good responses. Swedenborg reported that often people who live a very simple life of goodness get into heaven more easily than the highly intellectual! One doesn't have to know how muscles work in order to use their muscles to do things. Likewise, a person doesn't have to know all the intricacies of spiritual systems in order to operate in them. Swedenborg's books provide deeper understanding for those who want it, but all a person has to do to get to heaven is to apply the principles of "love God, love the neighbor" to life in any way that they understand it.
@thenowchurch - I suppose this is really what I wanted to establish, which I surmise to mean that, according to Swedenborg, we are saved and get to heaven - and once there, reap increase - by the goodness of God, hence the grace of God, and not through negotiating an ever-increasing labyrinth of complex understanding of the Truth. It would then naturally follow that any truth that we do acquire is the result of that goodness. In other words, it is God's goodness that leads us to the Truth and not the other way around, meaning it is not the Truth that leads us to God's goodness. Would this be a correct interpretation?
What about people that believe in Scientology.Those people are kind and friendly and good people.My question is do those people go to hell because they don’t follow/believe in Jesus Christ.
Good people do not go to hell, Jennifer. People who love God, are concerned for the welfare of others, find useful ways to serve the world they live in, ARE followers of Jesus Christ, whether they put it like that or not. They are living the kind of life Jesus modeled and spoke about. They are doing the will of God. "Not every one who says to me "Lord! Lord!" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but those who do the will of my Father." It is how we live and what we love that aligns us with heaven (or not), not just what we say we believe..... How does that sit for you?
Thank you 😊.
GREAT IMFO JUST LOVE YOUR WORK Just one thing as I am totally devoted to truth as much as my consciousness allows Random shootings was mentioned The mass shootings that are happening are not random It is murder by numbers The elite have a matrix code called GERMATRIA and a lot of what happens like WARS WEATHER SHOOTINGS etc etc are scripted I never expect or want any one to just believe So here is the the site for confirmation If you wish GEMATRIA EFFECTS NEWS Zac hubbard Once again THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH I ALWAYS LEARN MORE LISTENING TO YOUR IMFO
You're very welcome, colin! We're glad to have you in our audience, watching and sharing your perspective.
@@offTheLeftEye CHEERS
No! narcissistic ppl and other personality disorders are responsible for their actions. They defend their hateful misery making intentional behavior. I have a narcissistic mother who destroyed my brother and makes me her next mission. The way she has effected my life is devastating. She raised my brother to kill himself, which he did. Her personality disorder is not a free pass. Nobody’s mental illness or personality disorder is a free pass. We have free will. That is our ultimate gift. I’m not perfect. But I know enough to walk away. Not chase someone down to inflict misery on them for our own joy. It’s an emotional deformity, but it’s still evil. And personality disorders and mental illness are not the same thing. Personality disorders have less than 2% of a chance of improving. They never take responsibility fo their actions. Mental illness is a misfiring of chemicals in our brain. I was not really impressed with these answers. 🧐 Food for thought tho. I just love you guys! But this one twisted my head a little. We all return to love. Home. But do we take all of us, or just the love of us?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lea! Swedenborg wrote that freedom and a rational mind allow us to form our spiritual character. When one of those factors is unstable or in question, we are not operating in complete freedom. Here's a passage:
"States of mental illness: No one is reformed in a state of mental illness because mental illness takes away rationality and so the freedom of acting in accordance with reason. For the mind is ill and unsound, and it is a sound mind that is rational, not an ill one.
Such illnesses are ones of melancholy, of spurious and false conscience, of various types of delusion, of grief of heart arising from misfortunes, of distress and mental anguish owing to some physical disorder�-�conditions which are sometimes regarded as temptations, but are not. For genuine temptations have spiritual matters as their subjects, and in those the mind is wise. But these illnesses have natural matters as their subjects, and in them the mind is irrational."
Now, there are indeed varying degrees of mental illness, and not all mental disorders violate one's ability to think and operate of their own accord. The Lord alone knows who is free, and who is truly not. And no one can cheat the divine design-- each will be sorted according to the quality of their inner character in the next life. For those who were severely impaired of rationality, they will have the chance to develop then-- the Lord's infinite mercy grants that.
Regarding your final inquiry, Swedenborg wrote that we are what we love. Here's a passage that clarifies this:
"Love in general.
(a) Our love is our very life itself. The nature of our love determines the nature of our life and in fact our entire nature as a human being. Our dominant or leading love, however, is the love that constitutes us.
Our dominant or leading love has many other loves; they are derived from it in a hierarchy beneath it. No matter how these other loves may look or seem, each one of them is part of our leading love. With it they make one government, so to speak. Our dominant love is like the monarch and leader of the rest: it guides our other loves and uses them as intermediate purposes through which it focuses on and aims for its goal. Both directly and indirectly, this goal is the primary and ultimate objective for them all.
[2] (b) The focus of our dominant love is what we love above all else. What we love above all else is constantly present in our thinking, because it is in our will and ultimately constitutes our life.
For example, if we love wealth above everything else, whether that means money or property, we are constantly contemplating how to get more. When we do get more we are profoundly overjoyed. When we lose wealth we are profoundly grief-stricken. Our heart is in it.
If we love ourselves above all else, we keep ourselves in mind at all times. We think about ourselves, talk about ourselves, and act for our own benefit, because our life is a life of self.
[3] (c) Our purpose is what we love above all else. We focus on it in each and every thing we do. It exists in our will like a hidden current in a river that moves and carries things along, even when we are doing something else, because it is what motivates us. It is the factor that people look for and identify in others; then they use it either to influence the others or to cooperate with them.
[4] (d) Our nature is completely shaped by the dominant force in our lives. That force is what differentiates us from other people. If we are good, our heaven is created to accord with it. If we are evil, our hell is created to accord with it. It is our will, our self, and our nature. It is the underlying reality of our life. It cannot be changed after we die, because it is our true self.
[5] (e) For each of us, all our pleasure, joy, and happiness comes from our dominant love and depends on it. This is because whatever we love we say is enjoyable, since we feel it that way. What we think about but we do not love we are also capable of calling enjoyable, but it is not the central enjoyment of our life. What our love enjoys we experience as good, and what our love does not enjoy we experience as evil.
[6] (f) There are two types of love that act as a source for all forms of goodness and truth. There are two types of love that act as a source for all forms of evil and falsity. The two loves that originate all forms of goodness and truth are love for the Lord and love for our neighbor. The two loves that originate all forms of evil and falsity are love for ourselves and love for the world. When the latter two loves are dominant, they are completely opposite to the former two loves.
[7] (g) Love for the Lord and love for our neighbor are the two loves that constitute heaven in us, as I said. They are the dominant types of love in heaven. Since they constitute heaven in us, they also constitute the church in us.
The two loves that originate all forms of evil and falsity, which as I said are love for ourselves and love for the world, constitute hell in us, since they are the dominant types of love in hell. Therefore they also destroy the church in us.
[8] (h) The two types of love that originate all forms of goodness and truth, which are the types of love in heaven, open and form our inner spiritual self, because that is where these loves reside. The two types of love that originate all forms of evil and falsity, which as I have said are the types of love in hell, close and destroy our inner spiritual self when they are dominant. They make us earthly and sense-oriented, depending on how extensively and powerfully dominant they are."
what is the difference between narccissm and self love? Why do men want women to serve them at all times?
We don't remember being born you probably won't remember dying, just saying.
Yes, interesting parallel! Thank you.
Dont really agree with the narcissistic analysis here. Because the person I dealt with knew exactly what she was and is doing. I believe it is dark and of evil spirit manipulation. That's not excusable. But that's just my opinion. Unless you have suffered from the hell that a narcissistic/sociopathic person can cause in your life you wouldnt understand.
I'm so sorry you have suffered at the hands of someone like this. May you find healing for your trauma!
Narcissists are not sane are are therefore not responsible for anything? That is precisely what narcissists love to hear! That's it! I'm unsubscribing from this channel. I've had enough, I've reached my limit.
I will read Swedenborg's works by myself but your channel has lost all my esteem and lost all its appeal to me. Seriously!? Narcissists will not be held accountable by God? You guys managed to misunderstand Swedenborg in the worst way possible. Narcissists are nothing if not "The Love of Self" above all other loves. They are the embodiment of "hate thy neighbour". They are what "devil" means as in "the infernal love of self and hatred of God as well as their neighbour". By "neighbour", I meant the good in others and the good of the Lord or the good of love and the good of truth, narcissists hate all those things. Narcissists are self-exaltation, they are the worship of their proprium. They worship only one god - themselves. Someone needed to say this. I hate to be the one to stick my neck out, but I guess today that person making this unhappy speech this time will have to be me, seeing that no one else did the necessary deed, I have to step up.
If narcissists are not the embodiment of the devil, and they get go to to the first heaven, then hell will be empty, then, just like the Hindu or Buddhist mythologies, all you get is reincarnation or astral heaven with everybody not being judged and it's all just kumbaya after death. We are not evolving through many reincarnations. This life determines our Will through our Loves. What you love in this life will determine whether you go to Heaven or Hell. Narcissists are not evolving, they are busily choosing to love what God hates, as in a lying tongue, a heart that devises wicked plans, etc. There is no insanity plea, narcissists are deliberately making the choice of what to love in this life, but narcissists love anyone who tells them that they are the perfect, wonderful, faultless, adorable creatures their proprium tells them they are, and here you are doing precisely that, narcissists love your channel, you are pandering to them. How can you not see that? When we do not rebuke evil, we invite evil in. What you accept or willingly overlook, you accept into your Will. The only way to deal with evil is to reject or resist it. If you do not understand a topic, say "I do not know the answer", to wing it and come up with a fabricated or false answer harms your discernment, and injects falsity into the discernment of others watching this video. Even worse if that answer happens to harm good.
This channel was already sounding more and more unChristian by the video, now it's even sounding unNew Church. Seriously, I'm out of here.
I rebuke you.
Johnny, you are missing the big "IF". It never makes sense to look at all outward behavior as coming from the exact same internal condition. IF narcissistic behavior is due to genuine mental illness, in which the person does not have access to rational thought, then they will have a chance after death to review their earthly life through rational eyes, and evaluate it. In those cases, there is a likely chance that the person will see and feel the effects of their behavior, feel some agonizing remorse, and reject it. If this is the case, they will be able to learn and pursue a better way of life.
But IF the narcissistic behavior is not due to genuine mental illness, and instead is due to the freely-chosen pursuit of a self-centered life, then the person is not at all "off the hook." They will suffer the consequences of their behavior, and end up in hell. We totally agree with you that we have to be willing to reject evil, or else the evil becomes a part of our will. But no one is able to freely accept or reject anything unless they have access to their rational faculty. You don't need to worry about anyone just making excuses and getting away with something. Everyone's capabilities and inner motivations can be clearly seen in the afterlife.
But your stance works exactly like the "insanity plea abuse". "Your honour, if my client is insane, then he cannot be responsible for the crimes he is accused of". Every single lawyer and crook of murders and violent crimes seriously considers submitting this plea. Please start to genuinely consider the strong tendency of the evil to invent justifications for themselves and to convince everyone else that they did what they did for the best of intentions, or that they don't remember anything, etc.
And your stance is also going along with the moral relativity, don't discern crowd, a result of post modern philosophy that probably made Swedenborg disagree with philosophers. If where you sit is always on the fence, because you always refuse to draw the line somewhere, and so you always draw the line along moral relativity and "don't discern" by default, you will end up winking at evil every time because you will excuse evil behaviour every time, arguing that, "it is not what it looks like", which is exactly how the evil defend themselves with.
While it is fair enough not to jump to conclusions and to attribute wrong things to people's intentions, refusing to discern when there is a strong case for using your discernment is also a form of "see no evil", which is better described as "winking at evil". To not discern when discerning is the correct move means you default to the wrong move while claiming plausible deniability.
I'm not worried about what happens to narcissists in the afterlife and whether the Sphere of Truth will pick up on them, I just disagree very strongly with this channel's stance on narcissism and it's cavalier interpretations on actual human evils.
Just think about it, if someone were to be steeped in self-love, how would they actually appear like? How would their actions look like? How else would it look like? If narcissists were "rationality challenged" and are therefore not the infernal self lovers that they are, then who else would fit into that category? Where then, would you find those steeped in love of self? In more normal seeming people who occasionally choose to pursue love of self?
Will you ever manage to find a person who goes "I hereby rationally choose love of self over use and will decide to throw you under the bus because I have considered all the alternative courses of action and done the calculus, and love of self over love for you is what I rationally choose"? No, that's not how evil sounds like, instead it sounds like this, "I didn't do it", or "I didn't mean it", evil constantly makes excuses for itself, and the one thing left to complete the circle is someone else agreeing, saying "yeah you probably didn't do it or mean it". And that's the role you have chosen for yourself.
We are both stuck. I am stuck on calling a spade a spade. And you are stuck telling me, "but what if it's not a spade". I've had this argument before, and every time I had it, it's with people who refuse to exercise discernment, who only would make more excuses for evil. Of course, I could actually be stuck calling a carrot a spade, that is a possibility that cannot be discounted. But I've spent some time learning to spot denialism when I see it, especially denialism of either the existence of evil, or the presence of evil in a given person. It does no good to deny discerning evil when you encounter it.
The whole point of my comments is to point out the hole in your discernment for whatever good that might accomplish. Good luck.
You wrote: "I'm not worried about what happens to narcissists in the afterlife and whether the Sphere of Truth will pick up on them, I just disagree very strongly with this channel's stance on narcissism and it's cavalier interpretations on actual human evils."
I'm completely puzzled by this statement and your reaction, because the question in the show was specifically about the afterlife:
"Are sociopath and narcissitic people excused for their behavior on earth in heaven, being that this could be mental illness and beyond their control?"
So, the answer is specifically about the person's state in the afterlife, not about how a person should handle someone on earth who displays narcissistic tendencies. Also, the question was specifically wondering about conditions that may be "beyond their control," thus a genuine mental illness in which there is a problem with the brain. Mental illnesses can cut a person off from the ability to empathize with others. Concerning how to handle people behaving badly on earth, our channel communicates that it is appropriate, wise and loving to confront and stop bad behavior in whatever way is appropriate and possible, legally and morally.
Almost every show we have made points out that self-centeredness is the road to hell, because it is the state of hell, and that excuses will do a person no good. Everyone who is able to recognize their self-centeredness is completely responsible to shun that and change. If they don't, they will suffer the consequences of having made those attitudes and practices a part of their spirits.
We are not making excuses for evil. I hope you and everyone will do whatever is possible to stop harmful, selfish behavior. What we are saying is that no matter what action we need to take in a practical, earthly sense, we must also recognize that we can't fully know a person's ability to really realize what they are doing. Only God knows that for sure. You can stop a person's bad actions or cut ties with them without assuming they're going to hell.
If Jesus could pray for those who had just betrayed, tortured, and crucified him, we can at least strive to hope for every person to find ways to wake up and improve, in this world or the next, and to practice forgiveness even while taking necessary actions to confront them.
ua-cam.com/video/2CJ_W9lE0co/v-deo.html
"Then Jesus said, 'Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.'”-Luke 23:34
I guess you have a good point. Our disagreements are ultimately subtle and based on root assumptions. Mine is that when something looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. And so for me, narcissism is basically what infernal self-love looks like.
You prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. With lots of IFs and you also bought into the questioner's root proposition that they are mentally ill and that this is beyond their control. I dispute that root assumption. My root assumption is that they are not mentally ill, neither is this beyond their control. Instead, this is exactly how infernal self-love looks like if you ever managed to find a human who espouses that. But you would disagree with me on that.
And so the next stage of the disagreement comes down to what we each understand NPD as. You have yours, I have mine. And from my perspective, your entire paradigm, as well as the questioner's paradigm are wrong. People who have seen narcissistic abuse first hand know this. People who don't understand NPD cannot know this. My main quibble is that you handled that question very poorly when seen from the perspective of someone who actually understands narcissistic abuse.
NPD is not a mental illness. They are not mentally ill. They are evil. There, I've finally said it. And I know you will think that nobody has the spiritual right to call anyone evil, as well as mentioning the first stone. Nevertheless, someone has to come out to say this, stripped of the deception of political correctness. There are certain cases and situations where you don't have to know everything (the heart) to declare that someone is evil, anyone who continues sitting on the fence in those situations are like a judge who gives a lenient sentence to heinous crimes.
My quibble is not on what happens to NPDs in the afterlife. Whatever will be will be. It is not up to me. My quibble is on how excessively much benefit of the doubt your channel gives them. And how little you understand of them. But I cannot say this without sounding arrogant or conceited myself. Nevertheless, someone has to come out to rebuke apologists for NPDs, as well as the naive ones who think nobody can possibly be that bad. There are just certain things in life that no one should give benefit of the doubt to, because those who have front row seats know the severity of their culpability, but those who have just entered the room instead see only the plausible deniability. And they think the 5 seconds that they saw allows them to dispute someone who was in that room the whole day.
I think you have overreached your understanding when it comes to narcissism and sociopathy. You handled the question very poorly, immediately buying into the bait the questioner presented regarding their inculpability. To someone who actually knows that stuff and reads Swedenborg, it's a very cringy experience. My rebuke isn't about NPD and the afterlife, it's about what was said regarding that topic in this video. And I'll also point out that I'm probably not alone. Anyone else who understands narcissistic abuse, whether they read Swedenborg or not will likely cringe at what you said on that video. Please give yourself the option of replying "we don't know the answer to that question", for a very risky topic like this, overreaching creates enormous gaffes.
Thank you for replying so many times. And thank you for your patience. Please don't overreach like that.
Given what I now know about what you knew about NPD, you should have never taken that question.
Sure, forgiveness can be appropriate. But did you also know that taking too soft an approach to injustice creates more injustice by adding more suffering to the victims? We should also practice charitability primarily towards victims by meting out proportional justice towards the perpetrators. Compassion or benefit of the doubt towards perpetrators hurts victims even more. The chief focus of our charity should be towards victims and the innocent, not towards the perpetrators. Being correctly judicious is also an aspect of charitability. Being insensitive to the victims by being overly charitable to abusers is uncharitable to victims, it heaps more distress on them. Someone needs to point this out. I'm not asking you to send NPDs to jail. I'm just asking you to consider how much your fence sitting answer might possibly hurt the victims of narcissistic abuse having to listen to you misinterpret Swedenborg and infernal self-love like that.
I originally debated with myself whether I should bother to rebuke your channel regarding that terrible piece on narcissism. I thought I might just forget about it. But then I decided that it would be uncharitable to any future victims of narcissistic abuse who watched this video without having at least one commenter arguing against and rebuking the terrible injudicious things that were said in it.
I hope that my hard to swallow words may provide some solace to anyone else who saw that piece on narcissism and felt similarly to myself in reaction to it.
All right, thank you for sharing your perspective here, Johnny. I know it is coming from a place of wanting to help people. I hope you can also have room to believe that we are also trying to help people, and perhaps we are just playing a different role than you are, but both roles are needed. One concept that we feel is important and actually very healing for all involved is that things can look the same in external form and yet be coming from very different internal circumstances. We have seen many cases in which knowing that can help people deal with the outer circumstances more effectively, with less anger and in internal torture. We believe these words of Jesus are not about refraining from taking necessary action to stop bad behavior, but about an internal state of being while doing so:
"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you..."
-Matthew 5:44
For what it's worth, though others feel like you did about this response to a question about the fate of a narcissist in the afterlife, still others have felt greatly comforted by it, because they have a family member that they really care about who has fallen into this sort of behavior and, while they know they have to either confront, stop or distance themselves from that behavior, they have love for the person and want to have hope that the person's spiritual life could possibly be salvaged through God's mercy. Something in them knows that this behavior is not really the deeper core of who the person is, and that severe bodily and earthly factors are at play. It's amazing what whacked out brain chemicals can do. Near the end of his life, a relative of mine who had been a mild and gentle person all his life got a flood of excess calcium from his bones flowing into his bloodstream and he suddenly became very rude and nasty until doctors found a way to get the proper chemical balance back again. Again, it's never about excusing the behavior. Quite the opposite.
Concerning this statement:
"Sure, forgiveness can be appropriate. But did you also know that taking too soft an approach to injustice creates more injustice by adding more suffering to the victims?"
Yes, we know that full well. There must always be some sort of action that fits the crime. That's why I was steering you toward the episode about forgiveness, because we address that in that show. But also, forgiveness is much more about freeing the victims from continuing inner torture than anything to do with the perpetrator. In our show "How to Love" we talk about how "love" can be stopping someone from doing something that is harmful, which is love toward the victims and the perpetrator at the same time. Also, any time someone asks a question like "what do I do about someone who is hurting other people?" we have responded by emphasizing that it is never the right thing to just excuse and allow harmful behavior which is evil and destructive.
I agree with you that narcissistic behavior is what infernal love looks like (see our show "The Mysteries of the Ten Commandments Explained: False Gods" to see that self-absorption is breaking the first commandment.)
So, we can agree to disagree on specific elements and approaches to this topic, but as I said, I hope you can perhaps just see it as each being called to address a different aspect of a complicated topic. Again, thank you for your communication, and I'm wishing you well in all your efforts.