None of our DM'S gave magic users extra spells. Some did give out a scroll or two or a wand with a few charges in it. We always protected the magic users. Since thieves suck at fighting they would guard the mage. If the mage could, they would hire a couple of men-at-arms to guard them. One way our mages survived was by picking up the spell books of enemy mages. They might have a traveling spell book with a few spells in it or if you were in their "lair" you could find their spell book. They could copy spells into their own books and keep the rest to cast like a scroll. We also always gave mages any magic items that protected them and split up the rest of the treasure we found. It pays to protect your Heavy Artillery!
Low level power of Magic users were why we usually multiclassed our magic users. Fighter/Mu - A great back line archer/ ranger spell support. Thief/Mu - Great for using skills and magic for getting past traps/obstacles. Ceric/Mu - The ultimate spell battery. Magic for any occasion.
Just finished queen of the demon web pits with my party, Im a 14th level magic user. in our fight against lolth she casted a power word kill (9th level spell) on me. luckily enough i had a rod of absorption and i was able to absorb the spell and dodge death. due to how handy it came in though my DM said it exploded when i absorbed the spell and i lost the item which sucks but thankfully lolth had a wand of negation as a replacement haha
they called them magic-users because the term wizard was reserved for the lord-level title since back in the day a 3rd level magic-user would introduce themselves not as "hi, I am Bolt the 3rd level magic-user." but as "I am Bolt the envoker" (see your table in the PHB). Same goes for any other class.
We always took a partial leaf from Traveler and allowed the magic user to have a bit of career development (i.e. starting at level 3 or 4) and choose a spell book before a 1st level party started.
I had homebrewed a rule that copied the additional bonus spell slot column on the Wisdom table used for Clerics and Druids and applied them to the Intelligence table to provide additional spell slots for Magic-Users and Illusionist with high INT scores. This gave a 1st level Magic-User (or Illusionist) 2 first level spell slots if they had an INT of 13 or higher. Unearthed Arcana is one of my favorite 1E books especially because of the introduction of Cantrips. I think a lot of people thought cantrips were "useless" because they overlooked how they actually worked. You didn't get just 4 different cantrips (like you would pick individual spells) you got ALL of the cantrips and could MEMORIZE 4 castings for each 1st level spell slot used to memorize them. The trade off to casting cantrips was that you had to carry a 2nd spellbook (your tome of cantrips, that was completely filled with no free pages for additional spells) with you on your journey. For stereotypical low-strength Magic-Users this was a big choice to take on more weight and encumbrance to gain the multitude of utilitarian cantrips in Unearthed Arcana.
Ha-ha..."little baby kittens". Lol 😆 Nice video, sir... thnx! 👍We gave Cantrips in addition to 1st level spells equal to 1/extra language from INT plus 1/level. You could cast them at that same number as well... not unlimited as in modern systems, and certainly not damaging at all anyway, but adds to the M-U quite nicely we thought. I also allow up to Padded Armor for M-U's to at least boost them by one.
I have been contemplating in my games I run that magic users have a type of melee spell they can cast each round, something akin to magic missile but needed to roll to hit but progresses similar to magic missile.
if you need to roll 1 - 40, you can roll any die and take odd and even with a 1d20... like take a 1d6 + 1d20. If the d6 is odd, then it's 1d20. If it's even then it's 1d20+20... or you could do if the d6 is 1 - 3 then 1d20, 4 - 6 then 1d20+20... It doesn't matter. That way you can still do all spells, without doing a 2d20 roll for the spells and not ignore that first one.
Cantrips are cute, but yeah, very underpowered. Nobody wants to give up a proper spell slot for them. Therefore, I think if I run a game again where I include UA stuff, I'll maybe just allow an MU to have 4 "freebie" cantrip slots on top of their regular spells. That way, they can have the fun of using them, but won't "lose out" by doing so. Giving them 4 free cantrips surely won't whack out the balance of the class or game. ;-)
My first magic user started with 2 Hit Points. Adventure started in an inn (surprised, aren’t you). Bar-barian (18/?? Str) starts a fight with the party. Round 1 he smacked my magic user into a new plane of existence…
At least for us back in the early 80's as kids we never had more than 3 of us playing and most modules were for 6-8 characters so we always ran multiple characters. This made the low level MU useful without a player having nothing to do quite often. Your action came from playing the rest of the party.
Magic User was not popular at our table. We had plenty of thieves, rangers, fighters, my cleric, and a paladin, but nobody wanted to be as fragile as a magic user. I think the first one we had was a 2nd edition AD&D half-elf war kit cleric/mage that my brother played the heck out of. I didn't play that type of character until 3rd edition rebranded it as the wizard (and it became my go-to class for a few campaigns).
Here the thing players who haven't played with competent DMs don't realize about even high level MUs. Without other PCs, usually of the meat shield variety, they are very vulnerable to a handful or more of low HD monsters. All it takes is one successful missile hit and or a grapple on the MU and most spells can no longer be cast at all. Allowing the other critters to swarm and quickly capture or kill the MU. Something many of my players throughout the decades have learned the hard way...
I like "magic-user" as it means you can envision your PC as a wizard, a warlock, a witch, a diviner, an enchanter, whatever, especially if you try/choose to learn spells that suit your concept. Calling them "wizard" unnecessarily limits the imagination. The same is true with fighters: they could be Robin Hood, Lancelot, Conan, Boromir, John Carter of Mars, whatever you envision.
Having played mostly fighters or their sub classes.I always thought that having a mage around, no matter what level or hit die, was important to the company. It brought balance to the mission.
Rather than hearing an entire video of how to change the class to make it more survivable, I would have liked to hear suggestions on how to play the class successfully as written.
It can have its drawbacks by bouncing off a wall and coming back at you but it can also cause more damage to the enemy that way. Just need to be careful. Fireballs tend to incinerate a lot of priceless tapestries and all those books and paper goods in the vicinity. Not to mention that magic items can be destroyed as well.
More analysis on the class would have been better. Plus, an explanation on why it was like it was would have also been useful. Always remember, there is no level.cap to effects and damage (that 18th level Magic-user will cast 18d6 fireballs or lightning bolts).
I have a couple of questions: 1- You would allow a 1st MU to get Find Familiar? Now understand, it is a NICE spell, and is extremely helpful, (though I refuse to use it) but if I understand it correctly, it has a 25% failure rate and is only usable very infrequently. So the starting mage for all practical purposes has lost a spell/has a 9th level spell. (While not a real 9th level spell I understand, it is still at best a one and done.) You say you "help them" in the beginning but that to me is a massive hindrance to the limited amount of spells a mage can start with. 2- Do you make your MU's use the Write spell? Again, though to a much different extent, (MUCH different) this spell has some of tbe same issues that Find Familiar has for a starting mage. 3- Do you allow the starting MU to either create scrolls or potions, or do you make them wait until 7th-9th level whatever the book says. 4- I presume that you allow your MU's to be able to use their intelligence to roll to see if they have knowledge? Like the skills. (Hope this makes sense what I am asking. I had a DM who because mages aren't Sages, wouldn't allow them to roll to see if they know something. Fortunately my MU had a 18dex and carried a LOT(!!) of daggers. 5- Do you allow low level spell casters invent new spells? How do you do spell research? I think those are my questions for know. As I am sure you have noticed I thoroughly enjoy your channel and since I live locally I may be able to attend your con(?). Your old DM would have loved me, I refuse to cast Fireball. And I am not overly keen on Lighting Bolt, though I have used it.
1) I do allow Find Familiar, but it is rarely used at my table. It's just not popular. 2) I do make the Mus use the Write spell. 3) Starting MUs cannot make scrolls at my table. I use the book rules for scrolls. 4) I allow an Int roll of the stat or less on a d20 to see if the MU knows something. 5) I don't allow characters below 7th to create a spell. My logic is that they need to be able to write a scroll in order to write the spell down. Spell research and cost vary from spell to spell. One of my players has his 12th level MU researching a spell right now.
@@page121tabletoproleplaying4 If Write or FF come up in their initial *spells* roll do they count? Also is Write a spell like Read Magic- it is so intericall that you just have to know it? Also do you go by the book on amount of spells a MU can know how to use and %chance of learning?
I don't see where your reading of Armor affords the Magic-User an additional 9 hit points. As written the spell duration is permanant until dispelled or the MU takes a cumulative amount of damage exceeding 8 + 1 per level of the caster. The spell can last for days or even weeks provided the damage taken by the MU does exceed the threshold. In your example the MU has an AC of 4 until he takes 6 hitpoints of damage and is rendered unconcious. Subsequently if he is magically healed or takes bed rest for a week he will regain his 6 hit points and still have an AC of 4. If he then takes 3 more points of damage his AC returns to 6 and the spell expires. One positive is that it means that Armor will still be in effect when the MU memorises spells for the following day so the MU can take three different spells and still get the benefit of Armor from the previous days casting.
None of our DM'S gave magic users extra spells. Some did give out a scroll or two or a wand with a few charges in it.
We always protected the magic users. Since thieves suck at fighting they would guard the mage. If the mage could, they would hire a couple of men-at-arms to guard them.
One way our mages survived was by picking up the spell books of enemy mages. They might have a traveling spell book with a few spells in it or if you were in their "lair" you could find their spell book. They could copy spells into their own books and keep the rest to cast like a scroll.
We also always gave mages any magic items that protected them and split up the rest of the treasure we found.
It pays to protect your Heavy Artillery!
Low level power of Magic users were why we usually multiclassed our magic users.
Fighter/Mu - A great back line archer/ ranger spell support.
Thief/Mu - Great for using skills and magic for getting past traps/obstacles.
Ceric/Mu - The ultimate spell battery. Magic for any occasion.
Split class human was the way to go. @jamesdeer3129
Nice video and a good look at the MU. We did the same thing with bonus spells by using intelligence instead of wisdom on the Spell Bonus Chart.
Just finished queen of the demon web pits with my party, Im a 14th level magic user. in our fight against lolth she casted a power word kill (9th level spell) on me. luckily enough i had a rod of absorption and i was able to absorb the spell and dodge death. due to how handy it came in though my DM said it exploded when i absorbed the spell and i lost the item which sucks but thankfully lolth had a wand of negation as a replacement haha
they called them magic-users because the term wizard was reserved for the lord-level title since back in the day a 3rd level magic-user would introduce themselves not as "hi, I am Bolt the 3rd level magic-user." but as "I am Bolt the envoker" (see your table in the PHB). Same goes for any other class.
We always took a partial leaf from Traveler and allowed the magic user to have a bit of career development (i.e. starting at level 3 or 4) and choose a spell book before a 1st level party started.
I had homebrewed a rule that copied the additional bonus spell slot column on the Wisdom table used for Clerics and Druids and applied them to the Intelligence table to provide additional spell slots for Magic-Users and Illusionist with high INT scores. This gave a 1st level Magic-User (or Illusionist) 2 first level spell slots if they had an INT of 13 or higher.
Unearthed Arcana is one of my favorite 1E books especially because of the introduction of Cantrips. I think a lot of people thought cantrips were "useless" because they overlooked how they actually worked. You didn't get just 4 different cantrips (like you would pick individual spells) you got ALL of the cantrips and could MEMORIZE 4 castings for each 1st level spell slot used to memorize them. The trade off to casting cantrips was that you had to carry a 2nd spellbook (your tome of cantrips, that was completely filled with no free pages for additional spells) with you on your journey. For stereotypical low-strength Magic-Users this was a big choice to take on more weight and encumbrance to gain the multitude of utilitarian cantrips in Unearthed Arcana.
We solved the problem early, split class human fighter magic user.
Ha-ha..."little baby kittens". Lol 😆 Nice video, sir... thnx! 👍We gave Cantrips in addition to 1st level spells equal to 1/extra language from INT plus 1/level. You could cast them at that same number as well... not unlimited as in modern systems, and certainly not damaging at all anyway, but adds to the M-U quite nicely we thought. I also allow up to Padded Armor for M-U's to at least boost them by one.
I have been contemplating in my games I run that magic users have a type of melee spell they can cast each round, something akin to magic missile but needed to roll to hit but progresses similar to magic missile.
if you need to roll 1 - 40, you can roll any die and take odd and even with a 1d20... like take a 1d6 + 1d20. If the d6 is odd, then it's 1d20. If it's even then it's 1d20+20... or you could do if the d6 is 1 - 3 then 1d20, 4 - 6 then 1d20+20... It doesn't matter. That way you can still do all spells, without doing a 2d20 roll for the spells and not ignore that first one.
Cantrips are cute, but yeah, very underpowered. Nobody wants to give up a proper spell slot for them. Therefore, I think if I run a game again where I include UA stuff, I'll maybe just allow an MU to have 4 "freebie" cantrip slots on top of their regular spells. That way, they can have the fun of using them, but won't "lose out" by doing so. Giving them 4 free cantrips surely won't whack out the balance of the class or game. ;-)
My first magic user started with 2 Hit Points. Adventure started in an inn (surprised, aren’t you). Bar-barian (18/?? Str) starts a fight with the party. Round 1 he smacked my magic user into a new plane of existence…
At least for us back in the early 80's as kids we never had more than 3 of us playing and most modules were for 6-8 characters so we always ran multiple characters. This made the low level MU useful without a player having nothing to do quite often. Your action came from playing the rest of the party.
Magic User was not popular at our table. We had plenty of thieves, rangers, fighters, my cleric, and a paladin, but nobody wanted to be as fragile as a magic user. I think the first one we had was a 2nd edition AD&D half-elf war kit cleric/mage that my brother played the heck out of. I didn't play that type of character until 3rd edition rebranded it as the wizard (and it became my go-to class for a few campaigns).
Here the thing players who haven't played with competent DMs don't realize about even high level MUs. Without other PCs, usually of the meat shield variety, they are very vulnerable to a handful or more of low HD monsters. All it takes is one successful missile hit and or a grapple on the MU and most spells can no longer be cast at all. Allowing the other critters to swarm and quickly capture or kill the MU. Something many of my players throughout the decades have learned the hard way...
I like "magic-user" as it means you can envision your PC as a wizard, a warlock, a witch, a diviner, an enchanter, whatever, especially if you try/choose to learn spells that suit your concept. Calling them "wizard" unnecessarily limits the imagination.
The same is true with fighters: they could be Robin Hood, Lancelot, Conan, Boromir, John Carter of Mars, whatever you envision.
I might try that Intelligence bonus spells idea sometime to see how it affects the game. Interesting idea. Not sure I like it, though.
Thanks for the video! MUs are tough to play and hard to keep alive, that's why so few make it to the top. 😀 (heh heh "Egg" "getting Creamed")
Having played mostly fighters or their sub classes.I always thought that having a mage around, no matter what level or hit die, was important to the company. It brought balance to the mission.
Rather than hearing an entire video of how to change the class to make it more survivable, I would have liked to hear suggestions on how to play the class successfully as written.
Stay behind the armored PCs and chuck missile weapons after your spells are cast. After you cast spells throw on a coat of chain mail.
Yes, that would have been preferable.
I prefer Lightning Bolt in all honesty. Just something more rewarding to smite an enemy with a bolt of lightning over a fireball lol.
It’s the the ultimate “fuck u specifically” spell lol
@@diablo595 Probably why I like it so much hah.
It can have its drawbacks by bouncing off a wall and coming back at you but it can also cause more damage to the enemy that way. Just need to be careful.
Fireballs tend to incinerate a lot of priceless tapestries and all those books and paper goods in the vicinity. Not to mention that magic items can be destroyed as well.
Partial to Lighting bolt
Great video.
More analysis on the class would have been better. Plus, an explanation on why it was like it was would have also been useful.
Always remember, there is no level.cap to effects and damage (that 18th level Magic-user will cast 18d6 fireballs or lightning bolts).
Tony quick question, after 2nd level when the M/U gets his first 2nd level spell are you throwing dice to see what he gets or do you let them pick?
I put spell books and scrolls in with various level spells.
I have a couple of questions:
1- You would allow a 1st MU to get Find Familiar? Now understand, it is a NICE spell, and is extremely helpful, (though I refuse to use it) but if I understand it correctly, it has a 25% failure rate and is only usable very infrequently. So the starting mage for all practical purposes has lost a spell/has a 9th level spell. (While not a real 9th level spell I understand, it is still at best a one and done.) You say you "help them" in the beginning but that to me is a massive hindrance to the limited amount of spells a mage can start with.
2- Do you make your MU's use the Write spell? Again, though to a much different extent, (MUCH different) this spell has some of tbe same issues that Find Familiar has for a starting mage.
3- Do you allow the starting MU to either create scrolls or potions, or do you make them wait until 7th-9th level whatever the book says.
4- I presume that you allow your MU's to be able to use their intelligence to roll to see if they have knowledge? Like the skills. (Hope this makes sense what I am asking. I had a DM who because mages aren't Sages, wouldn't allow them to roll to see if they know something. Fortunately my MU had a 18dex and carried a LOT(!!) of daggers.
5- Do you allow low level spell casters invent new spells? How do you do spell research?
I think those are my questions for know. As I am sure you have noticed I thoroughly enjoy your channel and since I live locally I may be able to attend your con(?).
Your old DM would have loved me, I refuse to cast Fireball. And I am not overly keen on Lighting Bolt, though I have used it.
1) I do allow Find Familiar, but it is rarely used at my table. It's just not popular.
2) I do make the Mus use the Write spell.
3) Starting MUs cannot make scrolls at my table. I use the book rules for scrolls.
4) I allow an Int roll of the stat or less on a d20 to see if the MU knows something.
5) I don't allow characters below 7th to create a spell. My logic is that they need to be able to write a scroll in order to write the spell down. Spell research and cost vary from spell to spell. One of my players has his 12th level MU researching a spell right now.
@@page121tabletoproleplaying4 If Write or FF come up in their initial *spells* roll do they count? Also is Write a spell like Read Magic- it is so intericall that you just have to know it? Also do you go by the book on amount of spells a MU can know how to use and %chance of learning?
I don't see where your reading of Armor affords the Magic-User an additional 9 hit points. As written the spell duration is permanant until dispelled or the MU takes a cumulative amount of damage exceeding 8 + 1 per level of the caster. The spell can last for days or even weeks provided the damage taken by the MU does exceed the threshold. In your example the MU has an AC of 4 until he takes 6 hitpoints of damage and is rendered unconcious. Subsequently if he is magically healed or takes bed rest for a week he will regain his 6 hit points and still have an AC of 4. If he then takes 3 more points of damage his AC returns to 6 and the spell expires. One positive is that it means that Armor will still be in effect when the MU memorises spells for the following day so the MU can take three different spells and still get the benefit of Armor from the previous days casting.
I said I misread the spell but liked the phantom hit points so I left it in.
Sleep does not work on undead though
Even low HD undead in ADND and 2Ed are very powerful, very few DMs are tossing in undead minus the random skeleton to new PCs.
Magic users are supposed to be exposed to Darwin.... your MUs are way to over-strengthed....