Of all of the PHB classes, Bards have the best potential hit points by a long shot. They get SO MANY hit dice: 7 x d10 for fighter, 2 x d6 for thief, and 10 x d6 + 12 hp for bard. That’s a potential 16 to 19 hit dice (with applicable constitution bonuses). This helps to compensate for their low combat & saving throw matrices.
I like to give magic music items to Bards. In my campaign, the initial magic items Bards will encounter, will be one of the following: Instrument of the Bards - Fochlucan Bandore, Horn of Valhalla - Silver - (aligned to Bard?), or Pipes of the Sewers.
I have always struggled with the concept of a Bard being a class. We always said Bard was a job not a class & used it as more flavor for a character. Keep in mind we were a group of 10-12 yr old history nerds. After much trial & error we finally settled on any class could be a Bard as a job but that it was mostly used by thieves to infiltrate for information or to assassinate. This gave Bards a bad rap so if you were playing another class whose job was A Bard it made role play interesting. Sorry for long post. Love the vids!!
In my campaign, for Bards, when the prospective Bard reaches 7th level as a Fighter with enough experience points to reach 8th level, they now need to make a choice of which options to exercise. Will they continue to progress along their Bard path and switch to Thief, or will they opt to remain a fighter and train to obtain 8th level as a Fighter? Or, will they pursue another dual class option for which they may be eligible at this point? This is for the player to decide. Again, when they are a Thief of 5th level, and receive enough experience points to advance to 6th level, IF their dexterity is 16+, they may opt to become a Thief-Acrobat. Again, when they achieve 8th level as a thief, if they have enough experience points to achieve 9th level as a Thief or Thief-Acrobat, IF they are human with a dexterity of 17+, they may opt to function as a strictly dual class Fighter>Thief or Fighter>Thief-Acrobat and proceed to 9th level, or begin their Bard 0-level Probationer training. That’s how I allow players to progress in Bard training in my campaign. These are the mandatory choices which the player must select at these stages of the Bard training. 😊
Never played a Bard, didn't want to. I'm just not the Bard type. We had one player who had the stats for a Bard and he always said he was a Bard but he never actually became a Bard by the time he moved so we don't know if he ever actually made it to "Bard". I am intrigued by the new D&D movie. The lead character is a Bard and I can't wait to see how they portray him.
What a great video! Thank you for the shout out. I will have my son watch this. The way you put it the Bard doesn’t seem so difficult. When I was a kid they seemed impossible. I never really knew those instruments were in the DM guide especially for Bards, I think I’ve always just passed them by. Very enjoyable and informative. Your channel is great, and I’ve recommended it many times. Quick question, are there any penalties if a player stops the process and let’s say just wants to stay a Fighter or Thief? Thanks again 🤘🏿
More great content; my request to you would be, how do you handle the intelligence and ego's of certain magical weapons?.... Mad Martigan from Willow ( everyone; great movie if you have not seen it)... The Bard character class in MERP, is a jack of all trades, with the exception of languages, where they excel . I play Bards like any other multi class (the only one allowable to humans) fighter / thief / druid. that would give you a stat line minimum str 9 int 6 wis 12 dex 9 con 6 char 15 only a 6 % chance on 3d6 straight, and no half-orcs (booo). You may want to total xp per level so a second level bard would need a total of 5251xp; or can your 'Bard' build each class individually, so with 4000xp the bard would be thief level 2 fighter level 1 druid level 1, (don't forget the 10% bonuses ?) Demi humans are a must (all races record stories in song and verse) so note the class level maximums and cap the druid level at 12 level for elves 6th halflings (same as druid) and 4 the level for others. Weapon proficiencies should be totalled from all three classes per level, half the total chosen as weapon proficiences the other half new languages since we all know the pen is mightier than the sword! Note weapon types from the start and at first level allow a bard/druid the d8 die roll (along with d10 and d6 ) divided by 3. Starting GP roll for all class divide by 3 = 33gp -166gp This at least gives the bardic skills a chance to shine at low level play. (As in most of the games I play or run). (sorry for running on a bit).
Nobody in our group ever expressed the interest in trying for a 1st edition bard. I almost played one in 2nd edition (where they were given magic user spells and made more mundane), but I am not very musical and decided not to try (though I later became quite proficient in playing the trumpet).
First, 3d6-in-order is not even a real consideration for generating scores in AD&D. It isn't ever listed as an official method. The default "Method 1" is best-3-of-4d6 arrange as desired. 3d6 in order is so harsh the odds are that you'd end up with more penalties for your ability scores than any bonuses. You want to go to 7th as fighter not just for the multiple attacks but for the 7d10 fighter hit dice. Similarly, you may as well advance to 9th as thief for the additional 2d6 hit dice as well as maximized thief abilities. The cost in added xp you need to earn isn't all that high, and it pays dividends later. For the amount of xp it takes you to advance to Ftr 7 AND Thf 9, a single-classed fighter will only have reached 8th level, and then before they manage to hit the crest of 9th as a single-classed fighter you can have hit 8th level as a full bard - at which point you'd have 7d10, and 9d6 HD (combined from additional thief and bard levels) plus constitution bonus, compared to the fighters mere 9d10. And the single-class fighter won't get any more hit dice from that point, while the bard will _continue_ to gain another 3d6 HD. It's that dynamic that makes bards so appealing, even if difficult to qualify for, AND makes them so broken and why so many DM's just flat-out disallow them. The question of "won't associate with lower-college bards" isn't that they won't HELP them, just that they won't adventure with them - similar to why there is a limit to the number of rangers that can adventure together. One bard to a PC party is decidedly more than enough. The seemingly odd armor restriction ensures that they are ALWAYS able to use their thief abilities, but generally can't be a TANK like a full-plate normal fighter. My own house rules require PC's to have unalterably committed to ultimately being a bard from the outset of the character, but they only gain bard HD when/if their bard level exceeds EITHER of the levels they achieves as either fighter or thief. Vastly more sane. Combined with the armor and weapon limitations they have as full bards makes the class still the most powerful in the game, but perhaps not as crazy OVER-powered comparing to other then _high_ _level_ PC's. If you're then also playing the PC from level 1 all the way to being a bard it's a significant long-term commitment as a player and I have fewer issues with there being reasonable rewards for that. The real issue is having a campaign that is actually going to last long enough for the character to EVER advance to a significant bard level.
I impose the armour and weapon restrictions immediately, as a thief, and as a fighter (because this makes sense). When the PHB was written in 1978, there was no Elfin chain. When the DMG was written in 1979, Elfin chain became a thing. Therefore, I also allow Bards to use Elfin chain. I NEVER allowed magical Elfin chain as described in UA in 1985 (that’s an abomination). 🤢 However, according to the thief penalties in UA for armour, I might allow a Bard access to studded leather or magical ring also. In my campaign, I consider Elfin chain to be manufactured as an alloy of silver (or gold) and mithral. Therefore, it is non-ferrous (without iron), unlike steel. “… druids are unable to use any armor or shields other than leather armor and wooden shields (metallic armor spoils their magical powers).” - PHB pg 21. I interpret “metallic” to be ferrous (iron) or cuprous (copper) alloys with respect to druids, and exclude argentous (silver) or aurous (gold) alloys for bards. But, that’s just what I do. The point is that I’m trying to coordinate both the DMG & UA in a way that makes sense for Bards armour usage restrictions . 😊
I don't rememebr anyone ever getting to play a bard in AD&D due to the prerequisites and our campaigns never lasting long enough to attain all those levels. Billy Shears the bard! Did he court Lady Madonna?
@@page121tabletoproleplaying4 i found them unbalancing if they were played incorrectly which most people did. if you follow the rules specificially, the only thing that was too strong was Psionic Blast.
Because the 1E psionics rules are _awful_. It took a half-baked idea from OD&D, made it crazy complicated, full of rules omissions and contradictions, impossible for normal players to understand what the class actually is/isn't capable of, its mechanics are deliberately left separate from all other combat rather than structured to work WITH the rest of the game, and then they released it to an unsuspecting public. It has some good ideas but the execution is just abominable. The only really good thing about it is that the RARE few PC's who actually GET psionic powers tend to get killed off by whatever decent psionics-wielding opponents they run into. Almost a Darwinism simulator.
Because they have little reason to be there given their absence from nearly all source material. Most people associate it with the science fiction subgenre of fantasy
Flaming oil and war dogs were in all of our low level campaigns. A war dog is a deadly opponent for orcs and other low level mobs.
My Bard character was named Flewder Flam, obscure reference at best. Sadly he was killed, great class
Bard: "So, how do you like my new song?"
Me: "It's got a good beat but you can't dance to it."
The reason there were no Elven Bards is... Elves have no rhythm
14:30 Could use "The Sun will come out tomorrow" to keep an NPC from killing themselves... You know it doesn't all have to be about dirty talk.
Thanks, Page 121! The Bard was my favourite class that I never fully accomplished back in 1979. I really enjoyed your review. 🙂
Of all of the PHB classes, Bards have the best potential hit points by a long shot. They get SO MANY hit dice: 7 x d10 for fighter, 2 x d6 for thief, and 10 x d6 + 12 hp for bard. That’s a potential 16 to 19 hit dice (with applicable constitution bonuses).
This helps to compensate for their low combat & saving throw matrices.
I like to give magic music items to Bards.
In my campaign, the initial magic items Bards will encounter, will be one of the following:
Instrument of the Bards - Fochlucan Bandore,
Horn of Valhalla - Silver - (aligned to Bard?), or
Pipes of the Sewers.
I have always struggled with the concept of a Bard being a class. We always said Bard was a job not a class & used it as more flavor for a character.
Keep in mind we were a group of 10-12 yr old history nerds.
After much trial & error we finally settled on any class could be a Bard as a job but that it was mostly used by thieves to infiltrate for information or to assassinate. This gave Bards a bad rap so if you were playing another class whose job was A Bard it made role play interesting.
Sorry for long post. Love the vids!!
We had a bard in my campaign back at Cal Poly in 1981. He was an extremely obnoxious, therefore an extremely memorable, character.
In my campaign, for Bards, when the prospective Bard reaches 7th level as a Fighter with enough experience points to reach 8th level, they now need to make a choice of which options to exercise.
Will they continue to progress along their Bard path and switch to Thief, or will they opt to remain a fighter and train to obtain 8th level as a Fighter? Or, will they pursue another dual class option for which they may be eligible at this point? This is for the player to decide.
Again, when they are a Thief of 5th level, and receive enough experience points to advance to 6th level, IF their dexterity is 16+, they may opt to become a Thief-Acrobat.
Again, when they achieve 8th level as a thief, if they have enough experience points to achieve 9th level as a Thief or Thief-Acrobat, IF they are human with a dexterity of 17+, they may opt to function as a strictly dual class Fighter>Thief or Fighter>Thief-Acrobat and proceed to 9th level, or begin their Bard 0-level Probationer training.
That’s how I allow players to progress in Bard training in my campaign. These are the mandatory choices which the player must select at these stages of the Bard training. 😊
I once played a bard, but it was in an EarthDawn campaign. He was on "The Lute and Burn Tour."
Rimshot.
Thanks for this one. Been hoping to get a bard PC soon!
Andrew Blodgett Mayfair? Thanks for the video!
Yep. Monk the monk.
Love this video!!
Never played a Bard, didn't want to. I'm just not the Bard type.
We had one player who had the stats for a Bard and he always said he was a Bard but he never actually became a Bard by the time he moved so we don't know if he ever actually made it to "Bard".
I am intrigued by the new D&D movie. The lead character is a Bard and I can't wait to see how they portray him.
Great video.
What a great video! Thank you for the shout out. I will have my son watch this. The way you put it the Bard doesn’t seem so difficult. When I was a kid they seemed impossible. I never really knew those instruments were in the DM guide especially for Bards, I think I’ve always just passed them by. Very enjoyable and informative. Your channel is great, and I’ve recommended it many times. Quick question, are there any penalties if a player stops the process and let’s say just wants to stay a Fighter or Thief? Thanks again 🤘🏿
Nothing is mentioned in the Bard write up so I would just treat it as a dual class character from then on.
More great content; my request to you would be, how do you handle the intelligence and ego's of certain magical weapons?....
Mad Martigan from Willow ( everyone; great movie if you have not seen it)...
The Bard character class in MERP, is a jack of all trades, with the exception of languages, where they excel .
I play Bards like any other multi class (the only one allowable to humans) fighter / thief / druid. that would give you a stat line minimum str 9 int 6 wis 12 dex 9 con 6 char 15 only a 6 % chance on 3d6 straight, and no half-orcs (booo). You may want to total xp per level so a second level bard would need a total of 5251xp; or can your 'Bard' build each class individually, so with 4000xp the bard would be thief level 2 fighter level 1 druid level 1, (don't forget the 10% bonuses ?) Demi humans are a must (all races record stories in song and verse) so note the class level maximums and cap the druid level at 12 level for elves 6th halflings (same as druid) and 4 the level for others. Weapon proficiencies should be totalled from all three classes per level, half the total chosen as weapon proficiences the other half new languages since we all know the pen is mightier than the sword!
Note weapon types from the start and at first level allow a bard/druid the d8 die roll (along with d10 and d6 ) divided by 3.
Starting GP roll for all class divide by 3 = 33gp -166gp
This at least gives the bardic skills a chance to shine at low level play. (As in most of the games I play or run).
(sorry for running on a bit).
Nobody in our group ever expressed the interest in trying for a 1st edition bard. I almost played one in 2nd edition (where they were given magic user spells and made more mundane), but I am not very musical and decided not to try (though I later became quite proficient in playing the trumpet).
First, 3d6-in-order is not even a real consideration for generating scores in AD&D. It isn't ever listed as an official method. The default "Method 1" is best-3-of-4d6 arrange as desired. 3d6 in order is so harsh the odds are that you'd end up with more penalties for your ability scores than any bonuses.
You want to go to 7th as fighter not just for the multiple attacks but for the 7d10 fighter hit dice. Similarly, you may as well advance to 9th as thief for the additional 2d6 hit dice as well as maximized thief abilities. The cost in added xp you need to earn isn't all that high, and it pays dividends later. For the amount of xp it takes you to advance to Ftr 7 AND Thf 9, a single-classed fighter will only have reached 8th level, and then before they manage to hit the crest of 9th as a single-classed fighter you can have hit 8th level as a full bard - at which point you'd have 7d10, and 9d6 HD (combined from additional thief and bard levels) plus constitution bonus, compared to the fighters mere 9d10. And the single-class fighter won't get any more hit dice from that point, while the bard will _continue_ to gain another 3d6 HD. It's that dynamic that makes bards so appealing, even if difficult to qualify for, AND makes them so broken and why so many DM's just flat-out disallow them.
The question of "won't associate with lower-college bards" isn't that they won't HELP them, just that they won't adventure with them - similar to why there is a limit to the number of rangers that can adventure together. One bard to a PC party is decidedly more than enough. The seemingly odd armor restriction ensures that they are ALWAYS able to use their thief abilities, but generally can't be a TANK like a full-plate normal fighter.
My own house rules require PC's to have unalterably committed to ultimately being a bard from the outset of the character, but they only gain bard HD when/if their bard level exceeds EITHER of the levels they achieves as either fighter or thief. Vastly more sane. Combined with the armor and weapon limitations they have as full bards makes the class still the most powerful in the game, but perhaps not as crazy OVER-powered comparing to other then _high_ _level_ PC's. If you're then also playing the PC from level 1 all the way to being a bard it's a significant long-term commitment as a player and I have fewer issues with there being reasonable rewards for that. The real issue is having a campaign that is actually going to last long enough for the character to EVER advance to a significant bard level.
I impose the armour and weapon restrictions immediately, as a thief, and as a fighter (because this makes sense). When the PHB was written in 1978, there was no Elfin chain. When the DMG was written in 1979, Elfin chain became a thing. Therefore, I also allow Bards to use Elfin chain.
I NEVER allowed magical Elfin chain as described in UA in 1985 (that’s an abomination). 🤢
However, according to the thief penalties in UA for armour, I might allow a Bard access to studded leather or magical ring also.
In my campaign, I consider Elfin chain to be manufactured as an alloy of silver (or gold) and mithral. Therefore, it is non-ferrous (without iron), unlike steel.
“… druids are unable to use any armor or shields other than leather armor and wooden shields (metallic armor spoils their magical powers).” - PHB pg 21.
I interpret “metallic” to be ferrous (iron) or cuprous (copper) alloys with respect to druids, and exclude argentous (silver) or aurous (gold) alloys for bards.
But, that’s just what I do. The point is that I’m trying to coordinate both the DMG & UA in a way that makes sense for Bards armour usage restrictions . 😊
I don't rememebr anyone ever getting to play a bard in AD&D due to the prerequisites and our campaigns never lasting long enough to attain all those levels.
Billy Shears the bard! Did he court Lady Madonna?
Can you do a video on the monk class?
Coming soon.
Nice, I finally rolled one after 2 years using the original method
@@bobstevens4104 Hard to do. I did it in the early 80s and played him for years.
why does no one use psionics?
I found them unbalancing in the campaign.
@@page121tabletoproleplaying4 i found them unbalancing if they were played incorrectly which most people did. if you follow the rules specificially, the only thing that was too strong was Psionic Blast.
Because the 1E psionics rules are _awful_. It took a half-baked idea from OD&D, made it crazy complicated, full of rules omissions and contradictions, impossible for normal players to understand what the class actually is/isn't capable of, its mechanics are deliberately left separate from all other combat rather than structured to work WITH the rest of the game, and then they released it to an unsuspecting public. It has some good ideas but the execution is just abominable. The only really good thing about it is that the RARE few PC's who actually GET psionic powers tend to get killed off by whatever decent psionics-wielding opponents they run into. Almost a Darwinism simulator.
@@duanevp In the dragon from oct 1983 they put in a claass based on 1e psionics that was quite good.
Because they have little reason to be there given their absence from nearly all source material. Most people associate it with the science fiction subgenre of fantasy